Top 100 Novels of All Time - General Discussion

[pathoftheturtle]

Illusions Richard Bach

[Jean]

Another option would be to take out the series so that you would only nominate individual books, whether they stand on their own or not. For example, I could nominate Harry Potter Half Blood Prince rather than the whole series of Harry Potter books. I could nominate A Storm of Swords in ASOIAF rather than the whole series, simply because I enjoyed THAT book the most of all of them.

I thought about it, too, but I anticipate a lot of sophistry along this way as well. For example, voting every installment of The Green Mile separately. Or every volume of War and Peace, which, for example, in Wikipedia are called "Book/Volume 1, 2 etc". Or separate parts of any big novel that have the misfortune (like TDT) of having their own names, which is a very common case. The Brothers Karamazov actually consist of twelve "books" (aka parts), each having its own name. The Stand is actually a three part novel, each of the parts having its own name too. And so on.

[Jean]

So once again, like many others here (the majority, I think) I believe that we should base ourselves upon the definition of a novel as of a story which has ended (to the satisfaction of the reader or not is irrelevant). One last attempt:

imagine that the author dies upon the completion of a book

If you say, "Oh shit!!!!!!!!!!! he never finished it!!!!! Now we'll never know what it was all about!" - the book in question was not a novel, but a volume (book, part, whatever) of a big novel. Remember our fear after Sai King's accident. Or think what would have happened if, God forbid, he had died right after TWL.

If you say, "What a pity, there's going to be no NEW books in the same setting and with the same characters," - the book in question was a separate novel, which may or may not be part of a series, and of which you may or may not expect sequels or prequels.

In the first case, the whole thing (not a separate volume) is here considered a novel, and is admitted to the list. In the second, the book is a separate novel and is nominated separately.

Who is hurt by this approach, how it is unfair, or how I am suddenly dishonest and not worthy of respect, I totally fail to see.

[mae]

I think that's the same distinction I argued as well. Makes sense. For the record, I don't consider serialized novels (The Green Mile, etc) to be any different from regular novels. Same withong novels having "books" within them (parts) like The Stand.

[mae]

Speaking of serialized novels, I'd like to nominate In Search of Lost Time if it's not on the list yet.

[Jean]

I think that's the same distinction I argued as well. Makes sense. For the record, I don't consider serialized novels (The Green Mile, etc) to be any different from regular novels. Same withong novels having "books" within them (parts) like The Stand.

Precisely

[pathoftheturtle]

So once again, like many others here (the majority, I think) I believe that we should base ourselves upon the definition of a novel as of a story which has ended (to the satisfaction of the reader or not is irrelevant). One last attempt:

imagine that the author dies upon the completion of a book

If you say, "Oh shit!!!!!!!!!!! he never finished it!!!!! Now we'll never know what it was all about!" - the book in question was not a novel, but a volume of a big novel. Remember our fear after Sai King's accident. Or think what would have happened if, God forbid, he had died right after TWL.

If you say, "What a pity, there's going to be no NEW books in the same setting and with the same characters," - the book in question was a separate novel, which may or may not be part of a series, and of which you may or may not expect sequels or prequels.

In the first case, the whole thing (not a separate volume) is here considered a novel, and is admitted to the list. In the second, the book is a separate novel and is nominated separately.

Who is hurt by this approach, how it is unfair, or how I am suddenly dishonest and not worthy of respect, I totally fail to see.

This is more than an organizational approach. It is a philosophical paradigm. You may believe that a particular concept of plot structure is vital to artistic integrity, but couldn't it be great literature serves another purpose? I think that WeDealInLead's point was that we are more honest with ourselves when we admit that our categorizations are matters of convenience than we are when we insist that the way that we feel is the right way to feel.

As for me, I didn't mean to disrespect you. I was trying to say only that the fact you are a nice guy to whom we are grateful for various efforts does not of itself validate all your reasoning.

Another option would be to take out the series so that you would only nominate individual books, whether they stand on their own or not. For example, I could nominate Harry Potter Half Blood Prince rather than the whole series of Harry Potter books. I could nominate A Storm of Swords in ASOIAF rather than the whole series, simply because I enjoyed THAT book the most of all of them.

I thought about it, too, but I anticipate a lot of sophistry along this way as well. For example, voting every installment of The Green Mile separately. Or every volume of War and Peace, which, for example, in Wikipedia are called "Book/Volume 1, 2 etc". Or separate parts of any big novel that have the misfortune (like TDT) of having their own names, which is a very common case. The Brothers Karamazov actually consist of twelve "books" (aka parts), each having its own name. The Stand is actually a three part novel, each of the parts having its own name too. And so on.

I agree. And IMHO, this also applies to the nominations currently in suspension.

[Jean]

as soon as two people agree that a suspended nomination complies to the given definition of a novel (the one most people seem to be in agreement with now), I'll be happy to include it

[Jean]

Nominating Artemis Fowl (series) by Eoin Colfer.

NOW I need two people to tell me that it is a multi-volume novel rather than a series of self-sufficient novels.

It will definitely be skewed favorably for DT and SK works as opposed to on a non-King site, I think that's a given, but exacerbating it doesn't do any good.

I hope everyone still remembers that only three top books by any author will be eligible for the voting?

Artemis Fowl (series) seconded.

I'll remember this seconding if the novel is admitted

Seconding (or re-nominating, whichever applies) The Hound and seconding the Orient Express.

Sorry, cannot vote for And Then There Were None - for me this is an unfortunate case of a movie (Russian) spoiling all impression and memories of a book. I cannot make myself vote for it, which is a shame.

The nomination for The Hound is accepted, and all the secondings counted in.

Bears also second And Then There Were None. (Marina, I so wish you could forget the movie! the book is really good)

Bears second White Fang.

I nominate Catch-22 - Joseph Heller

counted as a seconding

I nominate Secret Garden if it hasn't been done so since the last update (and I'm not out of turn here)

which Secret Garden are we talking about? Secret Window, Secret Garden?

[Jean]

11/22/63 0
1984 14
20,000 Leagues Under The Sea 6
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, The 13
Against the Day 0
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (and Through the Looking-Glass) 10
All Quiet on The Western Front 5
American Gods 1
American Psycho 1
American Tragedy, An 2
And Then There Were None 4
Andromeda Strain, The 6
Animal Farm 8
As I Lay Dying 1
Ball and the Cross, The 0
Battle Royale 2
Battlefield Earth 2
Bel Canto 0
Beloved 0
Ben-Hur 0
Black Water 1
Blechtrommel, Die 0
Bonfire of the Vanities, The 2
Brave New World 5
Breakfast of Champions 2
Broken Sword, The 0
Candide 4
Captain Blood: His Odyssey 1
Carrion Comfort 1
Casino Royale 0
Castle, The 3
Catch-22 6
Catcher in the Rye, The 8
Charlotte's Web 4
Children of Men 1
Clockwork Orange, A 6
Cloud Atlas 2
Count of Monte Cristo, The 4
Crime and Punishment 9
Da Vinci Code, The 3
Dark Tower, The 13
David Copperfield 4
Don Quixote 5
Dracula 8
Dragonriders of Pern 0
Dune 4
Earth Abides 0
East of Eden 3
Ender’s Game 3
Everything is Illuminated 1
Exorcist, The 7
Fahrenheit 451 14
Fight Club 4
Finnegan's Wake 0
First Deadly Sin, The 0
Foucault's Pendulum 0
Foundation 3
Frankenstein 5
Geek Love 0
Ghost Story 4
Giver, The 0
Glass Bead Game, The 3
Godfather, The 3
Gone with the Wind 4
Grandes Familles, Les 0
Grapes of Wrath, The 2
Great Expectations 4
Great Gatsby, The 3
Gulliver's Travels 7
Handmaid's Tale, The 1
Harry Potter 9
Haunting of Hill House, The 4
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, The 7
Hobbit, The 2
Hound of the Baskervilles, The 6
I Am Legend 7
Illusions 0
In Search of Lost Time 0
Interview With The Vampire 4
Invisible Man 2
Island of Dr.Moreau, The 3
It 13
Ivanhoe 3
Jane Eyre 7
Jaws 2
Journey to the Center of the Earth 4
Jurassic Park 3
Karamazov Brothers, The 2
Kim 2
Kiss Me, Deadly 1
Koko 0
Last of the Mohicans, The 2
Leatherstocking 1
Let the Right One In 0
Liaisons dangereuses, Les 0
Life of Pi 2
Little Prince, The 4
Little Women 2
Lolita 7
Lonesome Dove 2
Long Walk, The 9
Lord Of The Flies 14
Lord of the Rings 8
Lost World, The 4
Loved One, The 1
Lucky Jim 0
Man in the High Castle, The 2
Master and Margarita, The 2
Metro 2033 0
Middlesex 0
Misérables, Les 6
Moby Dick 5
Monk, The 1
Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, The 0
Murder on the Orient Express 1
Musashi 1
Northanger Abbey 3
Neverending Story, The 3
NOS4A2 0
Notes From Underground 1
Octopus, The 0
Of Mice and Men 8
Old Man and the Sea, The 5
Old Yeller 1
On the Beach 1
On the Road 2
One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest 5
Only Forward 0
Out of the Silent Planet 0
Outsiders, The 4
Pastime 0
Peau de Chagrin, La 0
Picture of Dorian Gray, The 2
Pilgrimage: The Book of the People 0
Plot Against America, The 0
Portnoy's Complaint 1
Prayer for the Dying, A 0
Pride and Prejudice 4
Princess Bride, The 2
Psycho 3
Quo Vadis 0
Rabbit Series 0
Ready Player One 0
Rebecca 2
Red Badge of Courage, The 2
Ringworld 0
Road, The 5
Robinson Crusoe 4
Room 0
Rosemary's Baby 5
Scarlet Letter, The 5
Series of Unfortunate Events, A 0
Shining, The 11
Siddhartha 2
Silence of the Lambs, The 7
Silmarillion, The 0
Simple Plan, A 0
Slaughterhouse-Five 5
Something Wicked This Way Comes 2
Song of Ice and Fire, A 6
Sound and the Fury, The 0
Stand, The 15
Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde 7
Stranger in a Strange Land 0
Stranger, The 3
Strangers on a Train 3
Summer of Night 1
Sun Also Rises, The 3
Taiko 0
Tales of the City 0
Terror, The 3
Thief of Always, The 2
Time Machine, The 3
To Kill a Mockingbird 18
Treasure Island 7
Trial, The 2
Tunnel in the Sky 0
Turn of the Screw, The 3
Underworld 0
Up the Down Staircase 1
Vie de Gargantua et de Pantagruel, La 1
War and Peace 3
War of the Worlds 5
Water for Elephants 1
Watership Down 2
We 1
Weaveworld 3
Where the Red Fern Grows 2
White Fang 2
Wind-Up Bird Chronicle 0
Wuthering Heights 4

[Jean]

The leaders for today:

To Kill a Mockingbird 18
Stand, The 15
1984 14
Fahrenheit 451 14
Lord Of The Flies 14
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, The 13
Dark Tower, The 13
It 13
Shining, The 11
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (and Through the Looking-Glass) 10
Crime and Punishment 9
Harry Potter 9
Long Walk, The 9
Dracula 8
Animal Farm 8
Catcher in the Rye, The 8
Lord of the Rings 8
Of Mice and Men 8
Exorcist, The 7
Gulliver's Travels 7
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, The 7
I Am Legend 7
Jane Eyre 7
Lolita 7
Silence of the Lambs, The 7
Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde 7
Treasure Island 7

[Odetta]

Wow! That's a lot of novels we have!

[pathoftheturtle]

Ruthful seconded Grapes of Wrath before it was nominated.

... and second Moby Dick and The Grapes of Wrath.

It's a shame this and East of Eden are so far behind Of Mice and Men.

[Jean]

thank you, I will add one more to Grapes when I update next time (can't do now for technical reasons)

[Stebbins]

I nominate ALL THE KING'S MEN, and second ANIMAL FARM (assuming I have not already voted for it; I believe I just voted for Orwell's other masterpiece).

[Lurker]

Oh, I'll second Grapes of Wrath

[Jean]

I nominate ALL THE KING'S MEN, and second ANIMAL FARM (assuming I have not already voted for it; I believe I just voted for Orwell's other masterpiece).

and... who do you think should re-check it?...

[RainInSpain]

I second And Then There Were None - as you rightfully point out, Jean, the book's standing should not suffer because of my problems with the movie.

Also second Catch-22.

[mae]

I'm sure I missed seconding some great books, should go over the list and my posts, but definitely want to second The Handmaid's Tale.

[Stebbins]

I nominate ALL THE KING'S MEN, and second ANIMAL FARM (assuming I have not already voted for it; I believe I just voted for Orwell's other masterpiece).

and... who do you think should re-check it?...

Point received and taken, Jean. I checked and that was my first vote for ANIMAL FARM.

[Jean]

thank you Stebbins, it was a noble thing to do!

[RainInSpain]

Just to throw it out there, and to have this Russian classic satirical novel at least on the initial list:
I nominate The History Of A Town by M.E. Saltykov-Shchedrin

[mae]

I wonder, do we currently have any author represented by more than the three allotted books?

[Jean]

Just to throw it out there, and to have this Russian classic satirical novel at least on the initial list:
I nominate The History Of A Town by M.E. Saltykov-Shchedrin

Seconded!!!

though with the number of nominations we have at the moment, the odds are it won't make the list...

I wonder, do we currently have any author represented by more than the three allotted books?

I think it's Sai King alone, which was to be expected

***

bears second Geek Love

[Jean]

Dear friends,

as some of you know, I've had some unpleasant health issues this summer, so I had to go on vacation now to try to recover a bit. Will update the list whenever I can get to the Internet. As soon as bears are back, which is end of September, we'll close the nominations and start voting.

So please, go over the list once again, think of what hasn't been nominated or what you forgot to second, and, most important: of what you still have time to read.

With the number of nominations we already have, the zeros will not get to the next round. I am not sure even the "1"s will. So try to read up, not to be sorry afterwards! bearHugs