+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 369

Thread: Why Different For Susannah?

  1. #1
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    :radioactive: Why Different For Susannah?

    Here is my question... Eddie, Jake and Susannah all depart from the tale in DT-7. Though they all wind up in the same place [and presumably Oy will as well], why do you feel that Eddie & Jake needed to physically die in one world while Susannah was able to just ride the Ho-Fat Taxi through a door? I have my theories, but I am interested in hearing some of yours first.

  2. #2
    Breaker Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,908
    My Mood
    Dead
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    I thought it was because of Eddie and Jake being representations of Roland's earlier ka-tet, that they should die in much of the same way. Didn't Cuthbert get shot in the eye, much like Eddie did?

  3. #3
    Along the Path of the Beam zadok is on a distinguished road zadok's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    Posts
    50
    Country
    Country Flag

    Default

    It would have made much more sense to me if Jake wasn't there. He's the only one that died in the "Keystone earth"...
    There are other worlds than these...

  4. #4
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Storyslinger View Post
    I thought it was because of Eddie and Jake being representations of Roland's earlier ka-tet, that they should die in much of the same way. Didn't Cuthbert get shot in the eye, much like Eddie did?
    That'd only cover Eddie really. Eddie's death was in some ways reminiscent of Bert's, but so far as I can see, Jake's death is not similar to Alain's [thank Gan for that, I couldn't take seeing that happen again].

  5. #5
    Breaker Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,908
    My Mood
    Dead
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Alain fell under Roland and Bert's guns, right? A case of mistaken identity.

  6. #6
    Goldmember Kevin will become famous soon enough Kevin will become famous soon enough Kevin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Ontario
    Posts
    760
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Jake's first death is similiar to Alain's though, Jake was killed by someone he trusted, just as Alain was killed by Bert and Roland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Storyslinger View Post
    Alain fell under Roland and Bert's guns, right? A case of mistaken identity.
    How is Jake's first/second death a case of mistaken identity? I'm missing somethong here...

  7. #7
    Breaker Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,908
    My Mood
    Dead
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Actually, Jake's first and last death are similar too. Both by car

  8. #8
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Storyslinger View Post
    Actually, Jake's first and last death are similar too. Both by car
    [QUOTE=Kevin;79556]Jake's first death is similiar to Alain's though, Jake was killed by someone he trusted, just as Alain was killed by Bert and Roland.[QUOTE=Kevin;79556]

    Both of those statements are true, but only Jake's death in place of Sai King matters to me as far as this question. Simply put, why did Jake and Eddie and Oy have to die to get to their final New York while Susannah did not?

    It could easily be chalked up as being because Susannah ultimately renounced the Tower, while the others died still in pursuit. It could also be argued that Ka put Susannah through more than enough with the whole Mordred pregnancy.

  9. #9
    Breaker Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger will become famous soon enough Storyslinger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,908
    My Mood
    Dead
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    It could easily be chalked up as being because Susannah ultimately renounced the Tower, while the others died still in pursuit.
    I really love this, and it makes perfect sense to me.

  10. #10
    Goldmember NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    2,781
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Susannah crossed into NY with memories of the Ka-tet. Even though they were fading, she still knew that the three of them (4 if you include Oy) needed to be together.

    I don't know if that's "THE" reason, but it does mean something.

  11. #11
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedfulKings View Post
    Susannah crossed into NY with memories of the Ka-tet. Even though they were fading, she still knew that the three of them (4 if you include Oy) needed to be together.

    I don't know if that's "THE" reason, but it does mean something.
    It only explains why Susannah recognizes Jake & Eddie when she first arrives there, not why her path to that when was different than theirs.

  12. #12
    Goldmember NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    2,781
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    True. That said, had her path been the same as theirs, they likely would not have been reunited, as she would not know them at all. I don't think King could have passed her off as their sister.

    It is a great question! One of so many that this journey brings up. One more reason for me to read it again and again!!!!

  13. #13
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedfulKings View Post
    True. That said, had her path been the same as theirs, they likely would not have been reunited, as she would not know them at all.
    Why not? Eddie & Jake died at different points and in two completely different worlds and they managed to find each other on that level.

  14. #14
    Goldmember NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    2,781
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    That's actually forming another good question. Since they (Eddie and Jake) did die at different times, on different levels, how did they become brothers in the new NY???

    In reality, maybe King thought it would seem too "convenient" to just kill everyone off so Roland could reach his tower alone. This was one more way to remove a member of the ka-tet--and at the same time foster a reunion of sorts on the other side.

    Your theory of her renouncing the tower would definitely be a deeper answer to the question "why?".

  15. #15
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedfulKings View Post
    That's actually forming another good question. Since they (Eddie and Jake) did die at different times, on different levels, how did they become brothers in the new NY???
    I like to think this was ka's reward for their standing and being true.

  16. #16
    Goldmember NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings is just really nice NeedfulKings's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    2,781
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedfulKings View Post
    That's actually forming another good question. Since they (Eddie and Jake) did die at different times, on different levels, how did they become brothers in the new NY???
    I like to think this was ka's reward for their standing and being true.
    Well said!

  17. #17
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Parachute, Colorado
    Posts
    17,620
    My Mood
    Psychedelic
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    I considered those two a "jake and eddie" from an alternate universe or another level of the tower, if you will.

    Basically, Susannah got to go to that one place where they actually were brothers (not keystone by any stretch of the imagination) and Eddie never had the monkey.

    Patrick opened the door on a set that were happy and right in the universe.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  18. #18
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I considered those two a "jake and eddie" from an alternate universe or another level of the tower, if you will.

    Basically, Susannah got to go to that one place where they actually were brothers (not keystone by any stretch of the imagination) and Eddie never had the monkey.

    Patrick opened the door on a set that were happy and right in the universe.
    Interesting theory Matt and certainly a possibility.

  19. #19
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chinatown
    Posts
    28,087
    Country
    Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Storyslinger View Post
    I thought it was because of Eddie and Jake being representations of Roland's earlier ka-tet, that they should die in much of the same way. Didn't Cuthbert get shot in the eye, much like Eddie did?
    That'd only cover Eddie really. Eddie's death was in some ways reminiscent of Bert's, but so far as I can see, Jake's death is not similar to Alain's [thank Gan for that, I couldn't take seeing that happen again].
    also, Roland thinks that it's Susannah who reminds him of Alain (not Jake). The Waste Lands:

    "What's wrong with you, Roland? Why you want to go recallin that trash in my mind?"
    Now the sullen eyes glinted at him dangerously; they reminded him of Alain's
    eyes when good-natured Alain was finally roused.


    (...)

    Roland paid no attention to this; he was coming to understand that Eddie's jokes and clowning were his way of dealing with stress. Cuthbert had not been much different ... as Susannah was, in her way, not so different from Alain.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. #20
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Storyslinger View Post
    I thought it was because of Eddie and Jake being representations of Roland's earlier ka-tet, that they should die in much of the same way. Didn't Cuthbert get shot in the eye, much like Eddie did?
    That'd only cover Eddie really. Eddie's death was in some ways reminiscent of Bert's, but so far as I can see, Jake's death is not similar to Alain's [thank Gan for that, I couldn't take seeing that happen again].
    also, Roland thinks that it's Susannah who reminds him of Alain (not Jake). The Waste Lands:

    "What's wrong with you, Roland? Why you want to go recallin that trash in my mind?"
    Now the sullen eyes glinted at him dangerously; they reminded him of Alain's
    eyes when good-natured Alain was finally roused.


    (...)

    Roland paid no attention to this; he was coming to understand that Eddie's jokes and clowning were his way of dealing with stress. Cuthbert had not been much different ... as Susannah was, in her way, not so different from Alain.
    That is true Jean, though Roland also makes several observations of Jake which also remind him of his original ka-mate, particularly concerning "the touch."

    I don't buy into the notion that there are direct and exclusive connections between the original tet and the 19 tet. To me the similarities are ka putting the same kinds of people in Roland's path, not literally the same people.

  21. #21
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    12,734
    My Mood
    Cynical
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    To me the similarities are ka putting the same kinds of people in Roland's path, not literally the same people.
    That's my take on it too

  22. #22
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chinatown
    Posts
    28,087
    Country
    Country Flag

    Default

    yes, that's what I've always thought, too

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. #23
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Basically, Susannah got to go to that one place where they actually were brothers (not keystone by any stretch of the imagination) and Eddie never had the monkey.
    The more I think about it, the more I wonder about your theory Matt. Would an alternate Eddie, one without the history of our Edward Cantor Dean be the same man Susannah was in love with? What each of them went through made them the two people who fell in love on the shore of the Western Sea. King is intentionally unclear as to just who this Eddie and Jake are, but it is not without possibility that they just don't remember who they were before.

  24. #24
    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sligo. Ireland.
    Posts
    2,632
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    ....... King is intentionally unclear as to .......
    I think that is one of the only certainties about this whole thing.
    Intentionally unclear about different aspects for different reasons.
    - some he wants us to use our own imagination on...
    - some he simply wants unknown....
    - some he simply does not know the answers to...?
    <img src=http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z47/ManOfWesternesse/dt_bcBanner002d.jpg border=0 alt= />

  25. #25
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ManOfWesternesse View Post
    I think that is one of the only certainties about this whole thing.
    Intentionally unclear about different aspects for different reasons.
    - some he wants us to use our own imagination on...
    - some he simply wants unknown....
    - some he simply does not know the answers to...?
    That's what I love about it, no clear answers, only answers leading to bigger questions.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts