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Thread: Violence, Pop Culture/modern society: Is there a correlation?

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    Default Violence, Pop Culture/modern society: Is there a correlation?


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    That is just fucking sickening.
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    Default Violence, Pop Culture/modern society: Is there a correlation?

    I thought this would make for an interesting topic. I'm not sure I want to give my thoughts and opinions yet though. Mine are what they've been for a long time anyhow. I want to see what others think and where this thread will go.

    Edit: Of course, I don't mean just regular violence, but more the extreme stuff; for example the theatre shooting that just happened, school shootings, mass killings, terrorism and the like...basically mass semi-random killings or the extreme stuff such as eating a guy's face, serial killings, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    That is just fucking sickening.
    Very sad and confusing.

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    My heart and prayers go out to the people whose loved ones were in the theater, as well as Nolan and everyone else involved in the movie's production.

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    I think the theatricality of some incidents--like the Colorado shooting; supposedly the guy was dressed similar to Bane--are sick attempts at getting people's attention. Blaming the movies, music etc. is an excuse for not getting treatment for the person in question when the warning signs show up.

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    Such a terrible terrible tragedy.

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    Anything can influence the weak-minded. You dont have took look to far to see evidence of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    Anything can influence the weak-minded. You dont have took look to far to see evidence of this.
    And does our society bear some of the blame for these people or their actions? Did we in fact "create" them as they are? Does our society or society in general produce these sorts as a byproduct of our culture...or whatever? Or are they just "weak minded"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    Anything can influence the weak-minded.
    This is, basically, what I wanted to say.

    We have a proverb: свинья грязи найдет. Roughly: a pig will always find dirt

    Brice: yes, society is responsible, but violence in pop culture is the least (if any) of the causes.

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    Our society deserves as much blame for these types as people who volunteer at soup kitchens. Difference is, someone working at a soup kitchen isn't international news, while someone shooting up a movie theatre is. With the advent of the internet it's impossible to contain things like this. Personally, I think if the media were to not glorify events like his to live in infamy, people might not be a inclined to act on it. Many of these shootings and school shootings are done by people who probably have no personal identity or place in society, so in order tbe remembered and have an impact they go to extreme measures. I guarantee this event had no links to terrorism or any statement against society, just someone wanting the world to take notice of them
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    I've done a lot of research on serial killers, it's always fascinated me... I know that every person has the capacity to kill, but that in most (well, hopefully most) it is an instinct for survival and defense. Then of course you up the chances of killing in situations of revenge. Then toss in the "crime of passion" circumstances. It suddenly becomes easy to imagine a scenario when I would kill another person, even someone I love. Of course, for me, there would be a reason that allows me to justify my actions - even if killing is wrong, I would kill as a last resort to protect myself or others. My exposure to violent media at a young age has nothing to do with it. As a sane (well, mostly. lol) and rational person, I recognize that the use of fictional violence does not diminish the horror of actual violence. Media is not the sort of external force that would drive me to injure others. Whether I listen to christian rock or death metal, play candy land or grand theft auto, read Dr. Seuss or Stephen King, watch Care Bears or Friday the 13th... I would take the life of another person only if I felt I had no other options, only if that action was somehow "right".

    In a situation like the theatre shooting, something else is involved. When a parent's first reaction to, "your son may have been involved in a mass murder including children" is "You've got the right guy"... well... when a parent knows their child is capable of something like that, something has been wrong for a long time. People will say something should have been done. But what?

    My cousin was a messed up kid. He lit fires in the living room, threatened to take a gun to school, and snapped my pet rabbit's neck - all before entering second grade. I said then that if he became a serial killer someday, I wouldn't be surprised. There was that one terrible and scary year, then he got a lot of counseling and has been an incredibly productive member of society. But when his mother passed away last year under suspicious circumstances, we all said it wouldn't surprise us one bit if his step-father turned up dead. Most of our family's gut reaction to learning of her death was, "her husband did it" and I'd be a liar if I said I didn't think about how that man might have an accident... but this is not one of those times, for me, when killing would be a rationale and justifiable act. For my cousin? I was worried. Shortly after my aunt's death, my cousin enlisted. He said he needed to get away, to find direction, and to start a career... that the military will offer him the structure he needs, teach him self-discipline, and allow him to focus on making something of himself to make his mother proud. That doesn't comfort me at all. If he wasn't training for transportation/mechanics, I would be seriously afraid of the kind of killer they might mold him into. Do I think he could kill someone because of the music he listens to? The movies he watches? The games he plays? No. I think he could kill someone because of the way his brain is wired. Because something about him has always been wrong, no matter how hard he tries to be right. Because in a situation where I would want to hurt someone else but won't, I think he would. I think that part of him that should say, "It's okay to think those thoughts to help you process your emotions, but don't act on them because that will not help" that part isn't in there. It never was.

    Batman, by the way, was the name of his rabbit... When Batman died, my cousin was so upset that he didn't eat for days. He would cry and cry and when we would try to calm him down, he would say "What to do?" He was in first grade. He didn't know what to do or how to feel or if what he felt was normal. So when he saw that my rabbit was still alive, he killed it. And when I cried, he watched me. And then he asked me, "What do you do now?" And after I explained to him all the emotions I felt - including being angry at him - and how I would bury the rabbit, think of the good memories with her, and eventually move on even though I would never forget her... he cried with me and said he was sorry. And he was. My aunt said he was jealous that Velvet was alive and Batman was dead. My dad said he was just a fucked up kid, angry that I was still happy to have my rabbit when he was so sad his was gone. But I think he killed Velvet because he wanted to see how I grieved. He needed an example of how he was supposed to deal with a dead rabbit, so he gave me a dead rabbit and took notes. Killing Velvet was the last "wrong" thing he ever did. It has been fifteen years since he helped me have a funeral for Velvet, since he asked me who he should be mad at for Batman dying. In those fifteen years, I have never seen him lose his tempter - hit anyone - threaten anyone - or behave in a way that might suggest he was dangerous. He helped raise his half-sister and half-brother, he rescued and rehabilitated animals, and he cared for our sick grandmother. He responded appropriately to situations, with reasonable reactions and emotion. If I hadn't known he killed my rabbit, I would never suspect he could kill another living thing. When he first told his girlfriend about his "bad year" she didn't believe him. She asked me if he was exaggerating, if he really killed my rabbit. I told her he was a perfectly normal child until he entered first grade, and he was a perfectly normal child when he entered second... but that time in between was some scary shit and I'm glad he told her about it. I love him and I support him. I'm not saying my cousin will become a serial killer. I'm not saying he will ever kill another person. What I'm saying is, if he ever does... I would have to say, "You've got the right guy" and there was nothing we could do to prevent it.

    As far as the question, could media or pop-culture be responsible for violent behavior? My cousin watched a lot of Barney that year.

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    I think anything can influence anyone if they allow it too. There was a case years back against two people who did tons of LSD and watch Natural Born Killers over and over again, then went on a killing spree; in a state of euphoria they were easily ifluenced by the movie, but it was their own choices that allowed them to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    Anything can influence the weak-minded.
    This is, basically, what I wanted to say.

    We have a proverb: свинья грязи найдет. Roughly: a pig will always find dirt

    Brice: yes, society is responsible, but violence in pop culture is the least (if any) of the causes.
    Of course! Do you think I wasn't intentionally vague/misdirecting. I wanna' see what turns the conversation takes. Interesting so far.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

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    It is an interesting question. We (here in the US) have the same amount of guns as other places (like Canada) and are exposed to the same "pop culture" as other places in the Western World (UK, Canada, Japan) including violent video games and movies, etc. So why are Americans more homicidal? In the movie 'Bowling for Columbine" the director Michael Moore implies it is a culture of fear. Not sure if I believe that, nor am I especially a fan of his journalism in general (hokey, exploitative, victimizing) but I think there may be a point there. It is a cultural thing, but I don't think its violent video games and movies.

    I just read this guy was a grad student being dismissed from the program at UCD and had tons of flammable stuff and booby traps in his apartment left for the police. He was quite organized, arguing against a psychotic break. So, it wasn't crazy per se. It was well planned and well executed which points more to sociopathy to me. Some folks don't need a reason, they just want to see the world burn...
    People are always talking about truth.Everybody knows what the truth is,like it was toilet paper or somethin...All there is is bull*...One layer of bullshit on top of another...what you do in life...pick the layer of bull* that you prefer...

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    I am now actually glad I didn't go to the midnight viewing.
    People are always talking about truth.Everybody knows what the truth is,like it was toilet paper or somethin...All there is is bull*...One layer of bullshit on top of another...what you do in life...pick the layer of bull* that you prefer...

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    US and Canada have the same amount of guns? I see you know little of my native country.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_...ita_by_country


    Not to mention most guns in Canada are merely hunting rifles. Unless you're authorized (which is hard) you cannot conceal a fire arm. We're so spread out (second largest landmass compared to Russia) and have so few people, it's hardly even the same as the US. Not to mention a regular guy can't go out and buy an AK-47 and other high powered, automatic rifles. We have 33 guns per 100 people but we also have about 1/12 the population, those people are very spread apart, less likely to shoot each other. Very few homicides happen due to firearms in Canada.
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    guys, we all read nothing except very violent books, and watch, mainly, same kinds of films. Don't think we've ever chopped anyone's legs off, or dropped bricks on their heads, etc

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    We haven't, Jean... but we sure would have a better idea of how to do it than some other people, and if something caused us to "snap" we just might be responsible for the more creative forms of killing. Not that our exposure to horror caused us to do it, but it could certainly inspire the method if the means were there.

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    Today, a friend of mine posted on facebook that he was sorry to hear the news of the shooting, that he sends condolences to the families, but that he still intends to see the movie today. Some people posted nasty things to him, saying no one should go to see this movie... saying how such a terrible situation should make him not want to so it... etc. And I felt so bad for him. What happened was not a result of the movie. What happened should not be used to hurt the movie. But it's already being described as "The Dark Knight Shooting" and seems to be creating a general feeling of negativity toward the film.

    Hell, someone shared this photo and people jumped all over it! The photo is awesome. It does not deserve comments like, "You are heartless for posting this after such a tragedy!" Heartless? For posting a pic of a cat on a person's face?

    James Holmes killed twelve people and injured countless more... and it seems he also killed this movie. It makes me so sad, angry, and upset.

  21. #21
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    I was at the Midnight showing here in AZ last night. Great movie!!!! With all due respect to everyone on the boards and the poor victims and their families, I don't think this is the appropriate thread to discuss the tragedy. I think Brice posted a thread regarding violence etc that may be more appropriate for the discussion. JMHO

    Of course, my heart goes out to those affected by this senseless violence.
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    Very good point, Bill. If my posts could be moved there, please, in further effort to keep the violence and this movie separate. Thank you.

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    I think there's a correlation between everything, albeit through degrees of seperation sometimes, but sometimes not. I think everything influences everything.
    I had my infatuations, but we both know in our hearts who is the sole love of my short, bright life.


  24. #24
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    Later I'll try to move all the posts regarding this incident to the thread I started. It is the catalyst for me starting it after all and at least a part of the topic (though not solely). This thread should be for discussion of the film itself...which I hope was great.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    I was at the Midnight showing here in AZ last night. Great movie!!!! With all due respect to everyone on the boards and the poor victims and their families, I don't think this is the appropriate thread to discuss the tragedy. I think Brice posted a thread regarding violence etc that may be more appropriate for the discussion. JMHO

    Of course, my heart goes out to those affected by this senseless violence.
    You are right, Bill. I didn't post about this horrible event here for the purpose of discussion, I was just really shocked when I read the news and I happened to see the movie thread at the same time. It would be great if Brice can move the posts to the appropriate thread!

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