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Thread: The Shining - Let's Discuss! *SPOILERS*

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    Quote Originally Posted by turtlex View Post
    JandY - I'm impressed. Thanks.
    Sorry this is so late getting to you but you're welcome!

    Anyway, since I notice no one's posted in so long and the last comments were about my essay I've decided to bump it, to mention that I'm going to be rereading the novel again and also to mention something I'm not adding directly into the essay at this moment but which I would have put in had I been aware at the time:

    Having seen both screen adaptations of Carrie now, it seems to me that a lot of the time what works on the page really doesn't translate well to the screen as far as Stephen King's work is concerned (for whatever reason), in which case it was probably a good idea not to be too faithful to the novel for an adaptation of The Shining (although Stanley Kubrick's film, again, isn't ideal as an adaptation though being great for what it is).

    As far as Carrie's concerned,
    Spoiler:
    her mother's death worked well in the novel but NOT in the TV movie. De Palma's film version for Carrie's mother's demise was far more appropriate and effective.

  3. #103
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    I just finished The Shining half an hour ago and I can't find any words to describe my feelings. I had seen both movie versions previously, and neither of them compare to the sheer force of the book.

    I can't say that it scared me too deeply (no King book has done so yet), but it was horribly terrifying in the sense that only King books can be; there was a tick of horror sitting behind my temples with every page. I was afraid for the characters' mentalities more so than their well-being. The implications of the story and of the evil of the Overlook that manifests itself in Jack isn't scary, it's horrifying. I can't say I was scared, but I was horribly afraid, if that distinction makes any sense.

    My favorite character would have to be Hallorann, followed second by Jack. I love Danny, and I'm so happy he made it out okay, but Hallorann's selflessness and Jack's despair made them "real" to me. Just like with most King books, I hated Wendy (if you haven't noticed, I'm not usually a fan of King's women characters ).

    My favorite villains of the Overlook would include the hedge animals because of the mental connection I'd made between them and the weeping angels from Doctor Who. During the first scene with them, when they only move in between gazes from Jack, I was reminded of the weeping angels and their horrible, slow stalking of their prey when they weren't being watched.
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  4. #104
    Gunslinger Apprentice Jack Torrance is on a distinguished road Jack Torrance's Avatar

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    As you can tell from my name I love "The Shining"!
    Jack Nicholson is my favorite actor as well.
    I would agree the book is 500 times better than the movie. I love the depth of the book. To me it seemed to tell a different story than the movie did.

    I love the fact that Jack came back for a brief second too. Just to tell Danny to run. It adds to the character a lot. Like I said this is my opinion.
    "You've had your whole F***ing life to think things over, what good's a few minutes minutes more gonna do you now?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Torrance View Post
    As you can tell from my name I love "The Shining"!
    Jack Nicholson is my favorite actor as well.
    I would agree the book is 500 times better than the movie. I love the depth of the book. To me it seemed to tell a different story than the movie did.

    I love the fact that Jack came back for a brief second too. Just to tell Danny to run. It adds to the character a lot. Like I said this is my opinion.
    I absolutely hated the movie. If Kubrick's name is on it, I usually end up despising it. I hate the liberties he takes and the way it impacts the story. To me, it's so much more terrifying for Jack to have a roque mallet (something that takes multiple, blunt force hits to kill) than an axe (something that can kill in one simple stroke). The "chase" scene with Wendy and the beating of Hallorann were so much more troubling in the book because of the relative non-lethality of the roque mallet.

    I was really surprised to find that the tricycle scene never happened in the book (where Danny is riding down the hallway on a trike and sees the twin daughters of Grady). I figured it would be since Stephen Colbert and Stephen King did a joke about that bit on The Colbert Report!

    I agree with you, JT, that the brief moment of reprieve from his suffering added a lot to Jack's character. There's something I'm a bit unsure of, however: when Jack commits suicide with the roque mallet . . . was that actually suicide? The way I understood the scene was that Jack beat himself in the face to death with the mallet in an attempt to stop the Overlook from winning, but his body ended up being just another tool without his conscious mind embodying it.
    Finished The Dark Tower at 6:03AM on December 21, 2009.

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  6. #106
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    Something the Dark Tower Junkies will be interested in:

    Before and during the "chase" scene between Wendy and Jack, Wendy consciously notes that there are exactly 19 steps between the lobby floor and the first floor of the hotel. This happens while she goes down to see if Jack is still in the pantry and while she's trying to run back to their room to protect Danny.
    Finished The Dark Tower at 6:03AM on December 21, 2009.

    The man in black fled across the desert,
    and the gunslinger followed.


  7. #107
    Gunslinger Apprentice Jack Torrance is on a distinguished road Jack Torrance's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by SynysterSaint View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Torrance View Post
    As you can tell from my name I love "The Shining"!
    Jack Nicholson is my favorite actor as well.
    I would agree the book is 500 times better than the movie. I love the depth of the book. To me it seemed to tell a different story than the movie did.

    I love the fact that Jack came back for a brief second too. Just to tell Danny to run. It adds to the character a lot. Like I said this is my opinion.
    I absolutely hated the movie. If Kubrick's name is on it, I usually end up despising it. I hate the liberties he takes and the way it impacts the story. To me, it's so much more terrifying for Jack to have a roque mallet (something that takes multiple, blunt force hits to kill) than an axe (something that can kill in one simple stroke). The "chase" scene with Wendy and the beating of Hallorann were so much more troubling in the book because of the relative non-lethality of the roque mallet.

    I was really surprised to find that the tricycle scene never happened in the book (where Danny is riding down the hallway on a trike and sees the twin daughters of Grady). I figured it would be since Stephen Colbert and Stephen King did a joke about that bit on The Colbert Report!

    I agree with you, JT, that the brief moment of reprieve from his suffering added a lot to Jack's character. There's something I'm a bit unsure of, however: when Jack commits suicide with the roque mallet . . . was that actually suicide? The way I understood the scene was that Jack beat himself in the face to death with the mallet in an attempt to stop the Overlook from winning, but his body ended up being just another tool without his conscious mind embodying it.

    I believe if I am not mistaken that the house had taken him over again and smashed his face. Kind of like telling Danny okay kid you know I am not your father. Almost like a scare tactic. That is at least what I got out of it.
    "You've had your whole F***ing life to think things over, what good's a few minutes minutes more gonna do you now?"

  8. #108
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    I just re-watched the ABC miniseries, and the Kubrik version, both in 1080P Blu-Ray High Definition. I am re-reading the novel and am about 1/3 through with it.
    I liked the ABC (King produced) version, but could not "Love It!". I Think the Kubrik version is a good re-imagining of the story. Technically (and this has been mentioned by many professional reviewers), it is a marvelous film. Some of the scene decoration and clothing date it, but Kubrik shot a masterpiece-It just isn't King's masterpiece. The book read is good, but several of King's notorious research errors stick out. I'll pop back in when finished with the novel.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_and_Yoko View Post
    I'm glad. And you're welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by turtlex View Post
    My thoughts regarding Jack genuinely loving Danny... he terrorizes the kid, intentional or not. He physically harms him. I just can't work up sympathy for a guy that abuses his family, due to alcohol or madness. His acts speak louder, I feel to the reader and the viewer. Wanting to be a good father and husband, and then abusing your family ... that sort of negates the "wanting to be" part for me.
    I've actually now added a paragraph addressing that. Basically it says that the inevitability of what happens (in both versions) works better in the film since the characters are archetypes, whereas in the novel they just seem trapped by fate and unable to do anything about it.
    Well, to split hairs a bit. Having just finished a re-read. Jack one unfortunate brush with abuse of Danny when he accidently broke his arm. Now that was and is, almost unforgivable. However, Wendy, somewhat forgave him that incident though never fully.

    Once at the Hotel, Jack does not abuse Danny. He does however, hit Wendy when he is Jack/Hotel, but by the time he gets to terrorizing Danny, it's ALL Hotel utilizing jack's body. In fact, at the end, the last remaining vestige's of "Jack" rise up to allow Danny the opportunity to escape before once again succumbing to the Hotel entity.

    Least, that was my take and its still fairly fresh in my mind.
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    Danny in the TV version reminds me of something Rodney Dangerfield says in Caddyshack. Last time I saw a mouth like that it had a hook in it!

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    That's funny.

  12. #112
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    This book is very hard for me to read. It doesn't so much scare me as it bothers me on a psychological level. As a father who wants to do best for his kids and see his family happy, Jack's psychological degradation at the hands of the hotel is very disturbing to me. IMO, Jack wants to do the best he can for his family, but his alcoholism and his own family history are big hurdles. And it's possible he could have overcome those hurdles had they stayed away from the hotel. But the hotel plays on his addictions, and the concupiscence of humanity. Jack is attracted to the hotel and how it plays on his addiction, and he wants to stick with it. At the same time he wants to protect his family, and his attraction to the hotel wins out. And that's what happens with alcoholics. They may mean well and want to do right for their families, but in the end the addiction wins out and they chose alcohol over their families. Jack chooses the hotel over his family. And this whole thing is disturbing to me because I am constantly putting myself in Jacks place as I read the book, and I try to tell myself that I wouldn't make those choices. But it's still scary, and uncomfortable as hell. And it's a testament to King that he can evoke those feelings in me.

    Here is something that I am not sure about, something that I wonder about. IMO, Jack is NOT an evil man. He just makes some bad choices and is tempted by and falls prey to the evil of the hotel. But Danny keeps seeing the evil figure behind Jack, the man in the white clothes. Which I take for Jack's dad, Danny's grandpa. Who was a pretty bad dude according to Jack's memories. Is Jack's dad evil? IMO when Jack falls prey to the hotel. he becomes the evil figure that his dad was. He uses his dad's terminology, and when Jack is angry, he 'becomes' his father. Is Jack's dad some kind of evil force? Is there some kind of hidden evil force in Jack's dad and Jack, that's related to their alcoholism? I think there's more to it than Jack just taking on his dad's mannerisms, almost like an evil force that runs from father to son.

  13. #113
    John F. Kennedy Forge of the King is on a distinguished road

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    I just finished the book an hour or so ago. I like how in the novel, Dick Hallorann survives. It was sad that he died in the movie, and he wasn't given anything but a swift death and "That's all".

    I also like the ending of the novel because, unlike the movie, there was more of a feeling of a happy ending, with all the surviving characters together and out of misery. In the movie, there was no "happily ever after" scene, and that made it much darker.

    Overall I liked the book a lot, though I have found that I am not as scared by horror novels as I am by [good] horror movies. Movies play a lot more on the senses than the imagination (because of sounds and music), and I find that my senses scare me more than my imagination. I found The Shining to be a "creepy" book, but not scary, whereas the movie was "scary".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forge of the King View Post
    I just finished the book an hour or so ago. I like how in the novel, Dick Hallorann survives. It was sad that he died in the movie, and he wasn't given anything but a swift death and "That's all".

    I also like the ending of the novel because, unlike the movie, there was more of a feeling of a happy ending, with all the surviving characters together and out of misery. In the movie, there was no "happily ever after" scene, and that made it much darker.

    Overall I liked the book a lot, though I have found that I am not as scared by horror novels as I am by [good] horror movies. Movies play a lot more on the senses than the imagination (because of sounds and music), and I find that my senses scare me more than my imagination. I found The Shining to be a "creepy" book, but not scary, whereas the movie was "scary".
    Sign of the times I suppose. People get so saturated with media now a days they forget how to "imagine". I know when I first read it back in the day that book scared the shit outta me!!! Then again, "Halloween" was what kept me up for days and now my kids think its "quaint nostalgia"!!! LOL In some things, the old days are the better days, I guess.
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    When I read a (good) book, it's as if there's a movie going on in my head. That's one of the biggest reasons that I'm disappointed in the vast majority of movies based on King's books--they just don't measure up to what's in my head.

    John

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    I'm about 120 pages into The Shining and all I can say is Holy Crap! I don't remember the movie being anything like this. Another reason I don't like to watch a movie after a book. I have not read through this thread because I don't want spoilers, so I'm sure this is discussed to death.

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    I love the movie and the made for tv one, but the book is definitely King at his best.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

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    Agreed. I love the movie, one of my all-time favorites, but the book is vastly different. I do adore the book though and would rank it as one of my favorites as well.
    Only the gentle are ever really strong.

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    I remember loving the movie also. I guess i just realize they would be so different.

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    Oh, yes...they are quite different. It makes you wonder if Kubrick read the same story the rest of us did.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

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    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  21. #121
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    I didn't even bother with Kubrick's film. He tends to take a great book and piss all over it. Wait, I mean 'interpret' it how he sees it and then push it on an unsuspecting audience. He did the same with 2001 Space Odyssey.

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    I've always considered Kubrick's The Shining and King's The Shining to be two distinct productions, with no real relation to each other. It makes it easier that way.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhanic View Post
    I've always considered Kubrick's The Shining and King's The Shining to be two distinct productions, with no real relation to each other. It makes it easier that way.

    John
    Yes, this works for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeDealInLead View Post
    I didn't even bother with Kubrick's film. He tends to take a great book and piss all over it. Wait, I mean 'interpret' it how he sees it and then push it on an unsuspecting audience. He did the same with 2001 Space Odyssey.
    You're missing out! It's such a great film. Yes, it's different, but it's amazing in it's own right.
    Only the gentle are ever really strong.

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    Purchased this today. There's a couple of really cool dark tower shirts on that site too.

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