I am of the opinion that J. R. R. Tolkien was an amazing storyteller but a horrible writer. I just hate hate hate his style. *shrug*
I am of the opinion that J. R. R. Tolkien was an amazing storyteller but a horrible writer. I just hate hate hate his style. *shrug*
There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.
Hide, dude. Just hide.Originally Posted by OchrisO
Sai Joshua
I concur completly. Whenever you can gain a whole new audience for a piece of work that has been around for so long, it's a good thing.I think the thing we need to keep in focus here is how they brought the world of Tolkien to life for many people who had never read the books. I read the books as a teen and saw the Bakishi Cartoons. To be honest with you, I consider myself a pretty voracious intelligent reader, but I had a few problems reading LOTR. My 2 daughters have watched all of the films with me and my 13 yr old really wanted to start reading the books after she saw the movies. She came to me with this "deer in the headlights" look and asked me " How do you read these?, Am I missing something?" She is still trying, but the movies at least gave her a start in figuring things out. She has rewatched the movies a few times now. And on Peter Jackson, I am not mad at this man for what he did. Remember, Hollywood does not make movies of this size for a select few to watch. They still have to pay the bills at the end of all of this. I think PJ and Weta works gave us some wonderful movies, not entirely accurate, but wonderful still the same.
I prefer to yell it out in the middle of crowds of Tolkien fans.
There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.
Aside from seeing the first in the theatre, I actually waited for the second two to come out on DVD so I could see the extended versions. While they do contain more material from the books, ultimately it still led me to the same conclusion - if PJ had this much stuff FROM THE BOOKS to film, why waste our time adding scenes from his own imagination? I agree that the expanded versions get him closer to the books, but I will always have a hard time forgiving PJ for adding his own story to the story.
Agree completely. Like I said, I am glad the films gave people who hadn't read the books to become familiar with the story. For instance, my wife had never read the books despite my trying to get her to repeatedly. After seeing the first film she was interested. By the time we saw the second two films she had read the books, which she then preferred to the film.
Ultimately, my issue with the films is two-fold. First and foremost, it is the added material. I just find it insulting to Tolkien to add material which never happened in the books and justifying it by saying "well, this makes it a better movie." I've envisioned those books in my head since I started reading them at age 12, and they'd have made a fine movie just as they were. The second issue is that during the time when the movies were out and popular I ran into many people saying how they were better than the books. That is a preposterous statement. An individual may enjoy the films more, but let's not go crazy.
In the end, I am still glad PJ brought the books to the screen. Like I said in an earlier post, aside from the tinkering with the story I thought everything was done very well, and getting to see some of the places from the books come to life was a treat.
Bet you thought I'd flame you. Truth be told, I happen to agree to some extent. There is no argument that he is a great storyteller, his stories endure for generations. As far as the writing goes, I'd subdivide that into two areas. Tolkien was a genius as far as writing and re-writing and re-writing until he had the elements of the story precisely the way he wanted them. Where I tend to agree with oChriso is in the actual writing of the final edits. Personally, I like Tolkien's style, but it is (a) a bit dry, and (b) tends to get overly descriptive which can distract from the story at hand.
Ultimately, it's why though I love LotR, if forced to choose between series, the Tower remains at the top of my list. It's King's writing style that takes a hold of you and makes it impossible to put a book down. The difference for me between Tolkien and King is that with Tolkien I feel like I am reading a great story, with King I feel like I am being told a great story. His style, combined with his storytellin make it that much more compelling.
Similar here - my 10 yr old son has been hooked on the 3 movies for a few years now. This year he read the whole Book & really loved it!
Guys.
Help me.
I couldn't finish the first book (the damn mountain).
I fell asleep 3 times during the first movie... what should I do?
My only hope is Brian.
Maybe for him I will be able to read this series.
It seems to be amazing, nice, interesting and beautiful... but still it always beats me.
Roland would have understood.
The abundance of description didn't faze me, either. I love LotR, and have for years. It's one of those series that I read over and over again. I'm also a big fan of the first movie, but not of the sequels.
you're solid gold // i'll see you in hell
Well, maybe you could just drop-by the house & I'll read it to you Letti!
It will only take a few weeks! (Unless I read r...e....a......l.......l........y slow - & it might take months? years??)
*EDIT* Hi there Laura!
*laughs out loudly*Well, maybe you could just drop-by the house & I'll read it to you Letti!
It will only take a few weeks! (Unless I read r...e....a......l.......l........y slow - & it might take months? years??
Or you could read it our for me from the back... it would be harder to understand it but who cares? The longer the better...
Roland would have understood.
Hiya, Brian!
you're solid gold // i'll see you in hell
You should read (and watch) something else. Your reaction is perfectly natural. If Tolkien isn't your writer (like he isn't mine), you can hardly teach yourself to love him. After all, as OchrisO said, he is poor writing-wise, so why would you have to force yourself to read a hardly readable text if your heart isn't there? (I don't agree that he is a good storyteller, either. He is a good myth collector, that's true, but he can't make his story easy to follow, nor clearly articulate the difference between story-related stuff and mere lore-collecting, and it is a giant flaw.)
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I will give it another try, Jean. There are too many people out there who are important to me and love it a lot.
If course I won't force myself but maybe this time I will manage.
Anyway it was good as long as I read it but the mountain beat me.
And when I tried it I read it in Hungarian... my English was not good enough to read it in English. I think it will be better in English.
We will see.
Roland would have understood.
Yes. That's the only reason why I, too, am going to give it another try. It's sitting on the shelf now (the shelf dangerously sags) and looking at me reproachfully.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And who - if not our drear friends and loved ones - can show us hidden treasures?Yes. That's the only reason why I, too, am going to give it another try. It's sitting on the shelf now (the shelf dangerously sags) and looking at me reproachfully.
Roland would have understood.
My daughter finally gave up on reading them and went for the audio books. She loved listening to them.
I was just going to say, I hate to beat a dead horse but listening to them is really cool.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I suffer from chronic migraine headaches, and over the past few years have gotten into audiobooks. I have both the Tower & LotR series on audiobook, and I have really enjoyed listening to them as much as I do reading them on paper. Actually, I find it allows me to use my mind's eye a bit more as I don't have to use my eyes for anything. Letti & Jean, perhaps audio is a way you can get past some of your issues.
R_of_G: I am not sure. I read LotR twice - the first time before I knew any English, so I read it in very good (as I understood later) Russian translation; the second time in English, because I had hoped the translation was poor, not good, and the original would be better; well, it wasn't. It's just not the kind of literature I can appreciate. I am not sure it is really "issues": as I said, I find the book boring, lacking viable character or any passable dialog, poorly written, and, generally, reflecting the author's inability to differ between collecting lore and writing novels. I think it is liked mostly by "visual" readers, who can "see" what they read; also by those (I believe often they are one and the same people) who love fantasy as genre, so can disregard the weaknesses of the text. For people who love mostly reading words - text - and appreciate first and foremost the purely verbal constituent (rather than the mythology created/collected by the author, descriptions, action etc) this particular novel is, I am afraid, hardly acceptable (and I have the misfortune to belong to that extremity). Most readers, are, I believe, in between, that is, if other constituents are sound, they can close their eyes on poor writing.
(as for audio books in general, I can't listen to them at all, I am sorry...)
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give it another go Letti, and see how you get on.
Of course Jean is right on one thing - read what you enjoy, and forget about what you don't (no matter who the Author).
And of course Jean is wrong about another thing - Tolkien is the greatest storyteller who ever lived!
of course......
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ha,ha!of course......
Saw you there & thought I'd get my post in before you Jean!
Ah - foiled again!
quick is my middle name! (Jean Q. Bear)
by the way, Brian, you are one of those (very few) people who make me wonder if I shouldn't give it a third try... to at least attempt to see it with your eyes
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually Jean - I'd say I'm in that 'visual-reader' category you mention + I am most certifiably a fantasy-freak ! I preach the gospel of Lord of the Rings everywhere - but people should read what they love to read. There are so many books - and only the average Three_Score_and_Ten to read them in!
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