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Thread: Dr. Sleep - The Shining Sequel

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I will come back to this thread when I finish the book (very soon), so now I've just skimmed WDiL's big post, but it seems he managed to put his finger on what feels wrong with the book. Sorry Bill, I really really wanted to love it (not only because it's King, but because you loved it, too!)
    I really appreciate that, Jean, but what can you do? To each his own in the end you just cannot force the issue. To me, this book was like visiting an old friend after many years. I thought that he weaved the story very well with the original, even bringing back (scary) friends to do their evil. I also have to admit that ...

    I know the thread is marked, but still "a "spoiler tag" seems appropriate.

    Spoiler:
    It brought a tear to my eye when old Jack made his cameo!! I admit I have had mixed emotions regarding the Danny/Jack relationship as defined in "Dr. Sleep" While, at least since the SK produced TV version, I have always thought that Danny/SK gave Jack a pass, full redemption that is, a lot of time in Dr. Sleep" Danny/SK seem much more antagonistic towards him except at the end. Mixed emotions I suppose and I doubt I am explaining this quite right. Then again, it is a complicated relationship for sure and probably does not lend itself to "labels".
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  2. #27
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    Bill, my feelings about my relationship with my father pretty much mirror those of Danny/Jack, though I have forgiven him since his passing. He was almost never physically abusive, but LOTS of mental abuse. It took me a long time to get over it. I fully understand Dan's feelings.

    John

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhanic View Post
    Bill, my feelings about my relationship with my father pretty much mirror those of Danny/Jack, though I have forgiven him since his passing. He was almost never physically abusive, but LOTS of mental abuse. It took me a long time to get over it. I fully understand Dan's feelings.

    John
    Yeah, maybe I was too eager to "wrap the Jack/Danny' relationship in a bow. Must be a VERY complicated relationship, which I suppose is exactly what SK was trying to accomplish and whooshed right over my head. I suppose it is not easy to forgive your Dad for wanting to make you "take your medicine", even if he is possessed by "Ghostie's". It's just that, I have to admit, I always felt sorry for poor old Jack. Like his whole life happened to him, but in truth that was not the case. He was accountable as well. Still, I'm a sucker for a happy ending I suppose.

    Fortunately, for me, my Dad was great and I hope I can be thought of as half as great a guy as he turned out to be. Of course he had his faults as well, but we tend to remember the good times, right? LOL


    P.S. My sincere condolences to you, John.
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  4. #29
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    No condolences needed. I got over that "phase" of my life a long time ago.

    John

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhanic View Post
    No condolences needed. I got over that "phase" of my life a long time ago.

    John
    Well, it seemed proper. I cannot imagine the pain associated with that sort of thing. Glad you made it to the "Other side".
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    Thanks.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jhanic View Post
    Bill, my feelings about my relationship with my father pretty much mirror those of Danny/Jack, though I have forgiven him since his passing. He was almost never physically abusive, but LOTS of mental abuse. It took me a long time to get over it. I fully understand Dan's feelings.

    John
    Yeah, maybe I was too eager to "wrap the Jack/Danny' relationship in a bow. Must be a VERY complicated relationship, which I suppose is exactly what SK was trying to accomplish and whooshed right over my head. I suppose it is not easy to forgive your Dad for wanting to make you "take your medicine", even if he is possessed by "Ghostie's". It's just that, I have to admit, I always felt sorry for poor old Jack. Like his whole life happened to him, but in truth that was not the case. He was accountable as well. Still, I'm a sucker for a happy ending I suppose.

    Fortunately, for me, my Dad was great and I hope I can be thought of as half as great a guy as he turned out to be. Of course he had his faults as well, but we tend to remember the good times, right? LOL


    P.S. My sincere condolences to you, John.
    I believe that Dan knew that most of what Jack did was caused by the hotel, and I think that makes it easier for him to forgive and still love his father. I always thought that The Shining was a book about Jack Torrence, and I really liked Jack as a (tragic) character. I related well with him in that book and I'm glad to see him get some redemption in Doctor Sleep. My father was far from a perfect guy, and my sister and brother harbor a lot of grudges towards him still. I do not, I had a close relationship with him and even though he wasn't a great guy, I still love him. Granted, he didn't try to kill me or beat my mother to death with a mallet, but I think in general kids want to forgive and forget with their parents. I think Dan has those feelings with his father, and understands what he went through with the alcoholism.

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    they say that as kids you put your parents on a pedestal and think VERY highly of them. and of course i think it depends on what kind of parents you end up with of course. but when you grew up and this is my own thoughts you notice and realize they shouldn't be put on a pedestal at all regardless if you have good parents or not. they made plenty of mistakes and done shit they no doubt regret.

    my grandfather for example i was very close with him as a kid. he died when i was 12. and i pretty much idolized him. and through the years since he died in June of (1991) my parents tell me various things on how he wasn't so perfect. and though i never got over his death and i prolly never will. i do accept that. neither of my parents had the greatest parents, don't get me wrong i love my grandparents dearly
    but they as i learn how they were as parents it does sadden me how they weren't that great as parents and i disagree with some of the things they
    did as my parents were growing up. my point is i accept that they weren't perfect, nobody is i sure as hell am not.

    neither is anyone on this board. and i think most people prolly come to the same conclusion as i did with my parents and my grandparents.
    my parents aren't perfect either. but they did ok i think. anyways, i bought Doctor Sleep yesterday actually. so i'm not that far into it. i've only read like 10 pages so far. so i just started it. it is great to read about these characters again. Danny T. was one character i did wonder what became of him? and Charlie McGee from Firestarter is another one i wonder about as well.

    i'm not saying he needs to do a sequel to Firestarter but it would be great if he did put her in a future novel in some form, or just make a passing reference to Charlie as well.

  9. #34
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    Just finished. Overall, I liked it a lot. It's not as good as The Shining but it's good enough that it can be read right after without the quality suffering.

    One issue I had was

    Spoiler:
    The revelation that Jack had an affair. Obviously I didn't expect King when he was writing the Shining to go "OK in thirty years I'm going to introduce Danny's niece" but we effectively followed his whole life in that book and there was nothing to suggest that he was being unfaithful to his wife. I think it would have worked better if Jack had a one-off fling before he was married or something like that.


    Also I was a bit amused at King's statement in the afterword that the only "truly great" sequel to Psycho was Mick Garris's. Seriously, Steve?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberGhostface View Post
    Just finished. Overall, I liked it a lot. It's not as good as The Shining but it's good enough that it can be read right after without the quality suffering.

    One issue I had was

    Spoiler:
    The revelation that Jack had an affair. Obviously I didn't expect King when he was writing the Shining to go "OK in thirty years I'm going to introduce Danny's niece" but we effectively followed his whole life in that book and there was nothing to suggest that he was being unfaithful to his wife. I think it would have worked better if Jack had a one-off fling before he was married or something like that.


    Also I was a bit amused at King's statement in the afterword that the only "truly great" sequel to Psycho was Mick Garris's. Seriously, Steve?
    Actually, I seem to recall a vague reference to a fling in "The Shining, but I could be wrong.
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    i don't remember if it was mentioned or not cause i haven't read the book in years. but honestly i don't think anyone expects it to be better than the original. though i've only read like 20 some pages now. i read here & there and since it's the weekend THANK GOD i prolly will end up reading more.
    but i hope to enjoy it. and as for his comment about Pyscho i dunno which sequel is the best one, but i enjoy parts 2 & 4 over part 3 to be honest.

    i enjoy the Mick Garris one. in fact i forgot he even did that one to be honest. but i enjoy all the psycho films. it's going off topic a bit but that's my take on it.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland of Gilead 33 View Post
    i don't remember if it was mentioned or not cause i haven't read the book in years. but honestly i don't think anyone expects it to be better than the original. though i've only read like 20 some pages now. i read here & there and since it's the weekend THANK GOD i prolly will end up reading more.
    but i hope to enjoy it. and as for his comment about Pyscho i dunno which sequel is the best one, but i enjoy parts 2 & 4 over part 3 to be honest.

    i enjoy the Mick Garris one. in fact i forgot he even did that one to be honest. but i enjoy all the psycho films. it's going off topic a bit but that's my take on it.
    Dude, you should not be in here yet!!! Spoiler's abound!!! LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland of Gilead 33 View Post
    i don't remember if it was mentioned or not cause i haven't read the book in years. but honestly i don't think anyone expects it to be better than the original. though i've only read like 20 some pages now. i read here & there and since it's the weekend THANK GOD i prolly will end up reading more.
    but i hope to enjoy it. and as for his comment about Pyscho i dunno which sequel is the best one, but i enjoy parts 2 & 4 over part 3 to be honest.

    i enjoy the Mick Garris one. in fact i forgot he even did that one to be honest. but i enjoy all the psycho films. it's going off topic a bit but that's my take on it.
    Well IMO none of the sequels are bad, I get the impression that all of the people involved with the sequels took it seriously as opposed to another another Friday the 13th, but I do wonder why King would single out the fourth film besides his friendship with Mick Garris. It has a very "made for TV" (which it was) feel to it whereas I thought Psycho II was a very strong film in its own right and even when compared to Hitchcock.

    Also in regards to Dr. Sleep...

    Spoiler:
    Given the prevalence of the "ghost train" on the CD edition, I wish it had factored in more. I thought it was a striking image and was a bit disappointed that it was just a "Oh, btw" type of thing.
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    i realize that but i was curious what others thought of the book to be honest. and let's face it for me people have told me or i heard about how some shows end or a spoiler. shit when it comes to some tv shows if i miss certain episodes the media itself tells you the spoiler sometimes in the title of the article weather you want to know it or not. i did look at the end of the book to see if he lived though, and was thrilled the ending wasn't like the shining. in short they don't bother me i looked up a thread bout doctor sleep and the 1st one i saw was this one so i said fuck it and my curiosity led me here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberGhostface View Post
    Just finished. Overall, I liked it a lot. It's not as good as The Shining but it's good enough that it can be read right after without the quality suffering.

    One issue I had was

    Spoiler:
    The revelation that Jack had an affair. Obviously I didn't expect King when he was writing the Shining to go "OK in thirty years I'm going to introduce Danny's niece" but we effectively followed his whole life in that book and there was nothing to suggest that he was being unfaithful to his wife. I think it would have worked better if Jack had a one-off fling before he was married or something like that.


    Also I was a bit amused at King's statement in the afterword that the only "truly great" sequel to Psycho was Mick Garris's. Seriously, Steve?
    I am in favor of the idea that Jack had a one night stand with someone when he was drunk and didn't remember it and/or know it ended up in a pregnancy.

    Anyone else but me have the lyrics to the Steve Miller song in their head while reading this? Every time Abbra's name came up, "Abbra abbra cadabra, I want to reach out and grab ya".

  16. #41
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    Finished the book. I ended up liking it more than I did at the beginning.

    I didn't really like the very last chapter. It seemed a little random. I would've much preferred to have the one with Abra and Dan close the story. I also didn't like that King turned Jack into an adulterer. It served its purpose but Dan didn't really have to be her uncle for the story to work. What I did like was when Dan saw his Jack standing where Overlook used to be. That was a nice touch. It felt like closure and with Dan coming to an end of his AA journey, I felt it very fitting.

    I'm amending my rating to 4 stars. It would have been 4.5 had King been a little meaner and the book a little scarier.

  17. #42
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    Some spoilers here. The book ultimately seemed about redemption and coming to terms with both your own flaws and those of others. Overall, an enjoyable book, but not a great one. I was hoping for a more traditional "horror" novel. The book has plot elements from "Carrie," "The Stand," "Firestarter," and others. There were a couple of minor things that I didn't like:

    1) The predictable story arc leading to the inevitable confrontation between the good and bad guys. You could see this coming from page 1. What I call "the trip to Dracula's castle." It occurs in many of King's books and, while understandable, is a bit lazy to repeat over and over again. It is too overt to make for a great plot.
    2)"Luke, I'm your father." Ugh. The old we are related trick as Maxwell Smart might say. It wasn't necessary to make Danny and Abra relatives. In addition to being silly and unnecessary, it begins to infringe on the story from the Shining and not in a good way.
    3) The measles. So these bad guys have been up to this for centuries and they never encountered a sick kid before? Even in the days before inoculations? A minor point but it comes off as ridiculous.
    4) The AA. I wanted a drink after reading so much about this. King really beat it to death. Again, I can understand how alcoholism is an important element of the story, but enough is enough.
    5) The background chapter on the True Knot was oddly placed after the characters are introduced. It comes about 1/4 into the book and reads like King's outline for them instead of part of the book. It's written in an odd way and should have been a Prologue. It also mentions the Knot's dislike for dogs which is never touched upon again. Just a strange chapter likely written early on.

  18. #43
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    Default A nagging flaw that no one else has mentioned thus far

    I really liked this book. I could go on about how this story really grabbed me, but I won't.

    Alright...I will, but just a little.

    I like/dislike Stephen King's novels on a book by book basis-its just how I am. I read "The Shining" many years ago and remember not liking it, but something compelled me to read "Doctor Sleep" so I did-and do not regret it at all.

    I simply enjoyed the story, and even grew attached to the "good" main characters (can identify with a few of them). Regarding the True Knot, I really enjoyed loathing them-they reminded me of the people from a horrible indie comic-strip series by a guy named "Dolcett" (spelling?).

    A great storyline, suspenseful, etc. One of his better novels, I'd say.

    Now...maybe I missed someone else's comments of a similar nature, and if so-my apologies, but here's one of my gripes with the circumstances in "Doctor Sleep:"

    Since the True Knot, in one form or another, have traveled the country (or countries) for a very long span of time, how was it that they did not pick up on Danny Torrence when he was a youngster? Assuming his psychic abilities were probably as strong as the baseball player boy (Trevor's), you'd think Rose, Grampa, or Barry would have picked up his "blip" on their psychic radar. Especially considering how they would travel through places like Florida during certain times of the year (hurricane season, for example).
    I mean, you'd think at they'd at least have "bumped into each other" on a psychic level. Right?

    But then what? An awfully short story about a boy named Danny who disappeared one day?

    I guess we can work our imaginations in whatever way we like, and can dream up a variety of plausible explanations.

    Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there.
    Thanks.

  19. #44
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    Well, if you recall, they had range limitations and Danny was no, Abra. I think the "Hotel people" had something to do with it once they got to the Overlook. A thought that occurred to me as well.
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    It's a big country, and it's possible they traveled around without running into him.

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    "i'm not saying he needs to do a sequel to Firestarter but it would be great if he did put her in a future novel in some form, or just make a passing reference to Charlie as well. "

    Absolutely. I thought of Charlie more than a few times, reading Doctor Sleep, and Firestarter in general. (Mainly because Charley was always powerful, but she seemed like a kid in danger. There were only two or three sentences in Doctor Sleep where I actually felt Abra was in any kind of danger. The rest of the novel seemed determined to re-assure the reader she was in absolutely no peril whatsoever, all while telling us she was. I really didn't care for that part. Anyway.)

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    "Also I was a bit amused at King's statement in the afterword that the only "truly great" sequel to Psycho was Mick Garris's. Seriously, Steve? "

    I rolled my eyes so hard at that I think I had a momentary seizure. His appraisal of Garris's abilities and his failure to appreciate Kubrick's, is just so stubborn. Ah well. He's entitled, of course, to think whatever he likes (and with Kubrick's movie, based on his work, more rights than anyone, I'd wager) but you just do not look intelligent praising Garris at the expense of Kubrick. I know he wasn't comparing the two, but the implication is there. And it's staggering.

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    "I'm amending my rating to 4 stars. It would have been 4.5 had King been a little meaner and the book a little scarier. "

    Absolutely. I mean, I get that he was forsaking the horror for a different kind of story (and I liked the AA stuff, particularly as thematic counterpoint to the alcoholism of The Shining) but the True Knot are just so toothless.

    I don't know, still thinking it over... I kind of enjoy it? Maybe the real danger/ power is the alcoholism and the True Knot's lack of menace/ consistent weakness is a metaphor of some kind. Or maybe he just wanted to make REALLY sure that we understood how bad-ass Abra is/was. Meh.

    I did think the last few wrap-up chapters were the strongest in the book. Great ending. Everything after the True Knot/ the horrendous Jack-fathered-Lucy reveal.

  24. #49
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    did Kubrick direct any of Psycho?

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. #50
    Traveler bmcmolo is on a distinguished road

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    I wish!

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