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Thread: Dr. Sleep - The Shining Sequel

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    Default Dr. Sleep - The Shining Sequel

    Perhaps this is not the right place to post this? But, discuss!

    http://dailydead.com/stephen-king-an...quel-dr-sleep/

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    Not really. We have a thread in the Oracle (news) section. Once the book is published, then we'll read it and discuss it here. Hopefully sooner rather than later

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    Default Doctor Sleep ***SPOILERS***

    I thought a place to start discussing the books should be started, so here it is!

    John

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    Spoilers already marked? Check. OK so I am like 175 pages in an just have a couple of light observations. Nothing too revealing, nut you can never be too careful these days.

    First, king seems to have changed his thoughts regarding Danny and Jack from the original book ending, through his supervised TV movie and now "Dr. Sleep". While young, Danny and Jack' relationship could hardly be described as close, there was at least always the underlying love, understanding a most importantly (IMHO) final redemption of Jack in the end. That seemed to be answered once and for all in King' TV adaption. Now, Older Danny, seems to have lost all touch with those feelings in "Dr. Sleep" and has markedly different views on his Dad. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the reason/motive, given Danny' own life path, just thought it was an interesting touch in Dr. Sleep" and worth mentioning, perhaps discussing.

    Second, anyone notice the parallel's to young "Charlie" in "Firestarter" that seem to pervade young "Abra's" childhood? I thought that was kinda cool, too.

    Third, there seems to be some underlying character/monster theme from previous novel's to the "True Knot" that I have yet to put my finger on. Again, not "bashing" or suggesting anything wrong here. Just my observations so far. I am greatly enjoying this read, so far. So much so that I woke in the middle of the night to go back to it and read 75 or so more pages before drifting off again. Can't wait to get back to it!!!

    I like it better than "Joyland" so far, but that probably has to do more with it's relation to "The Shining" and it's very familiar characters than anything else.

    Thoughts?
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    Only about 100 pages in. So far the True Knot aspect of the story has more of a Joe Hill vibe to it than SK.

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    I was thinking the same thing. I feel like the book is very much like NOS4A2 Spanning many years Instead of focusing on a short period of time. I liked the confined element of the shining, i loved all the ghosts in the shining. i felt that the shining was really scary. If you read the afterward by Stephen King and a few reviews it puts you into a better perspective of what to expect from the book. My expectations were so high, that i ended up not liking it so much. Had i known what he was trying to do and why, i think i would of liked it alot better from a literary perspective. I think the shining aspect was to help sell books maybe?

    True Knot did nothing for me. I needed more character development for some of the true knot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roseannebarr View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. I feel like the book is very much like NOS4A2 Spanning many years Instead of focusing on a short period of time. I liked the confined element of the shining, i loved all the ghosts in the shining. i felt that the shining was really scary. If you read the afterward by Stephen King and a few reviews it puts you into a better perspective of what to expect from the book. My expectations were so high, that i ended up not liking it so much. Had i known what he was trying to do and why, i think i would of liked it alot better from a literary perspective. I think the shining aspect was to help sell books maybe?

    True Knot did nothing for me. I needed more character development for some of the true knot.
    I read multiple reviews prior to starting the book so I've gone into it with an open mind. Its early but so far the True Knot seems a bit forced.

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    Funny, I find the True to be A) a very interesting and intriguing "new Twist" and, B) a sort of ying to Danny/Abra's yang. So far at least. In my mind you could almost call the True the "Anti-Shining", which I kinda dig. I'm still only around 200 pages, but there seems to be much more about the True' origins/background to come. With few exceptions, I am really liking how "The Shining" is intertwined by King. Sidewinder, Tony, etc. The only small hiccup (that for some reason is nagging at me) is the different slant on the Danny/Jack relationship. I mean, I pretty well get the reason behind it to a degree, but for some reason it is a little "off-putting". IMHO.

    Edit: Perhaps, it is just that it somewhat deflates my personal feeling of a "silver lining, in anotherwise very dark cloud", with regard to the end of "The Shining".
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    I'm about to start chapter 4 and like the book so far.

    The True Knot is interesting. They haven't been developed much so far.

    I like Abra. I like Danny still. I would like more stories of their early development.

    So far, so good.

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    I love every page of it and think the True Knot are excellent villains. It's not a sequel to The Shining in my view. It's a new novel with Danny from The Shining. I love Danny and he's a great character. The Shining could never have a true sequel because of the way it ended. As for being like NOS4A2.... I can't disagree more. That was cartoonish and over the top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrowley View Post
    I love every page of it and think the True Knot are excellent villains. It's not a sequel to The Shining in my view. It's a new novel with Danny from The Shining. I love Danny and he's a great character. The Shining could never have a true sequel because of the way it ended. As for being like NOS4A2.... I can't disagree more. That was cartoonish and over the top.
    Yes!! I am viewing it more as "The Continuing Story of Danny Torrance".... Well put, MC!! Though I have to admit I really like the way (so far) that King has both paid respect to and woven in the traumatic experiences, Danny endured in the first book.
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    I loved it. I never expected it to be a sequel to The Shining but just a continuation of Danny's story. There was not a single scary moment and the characters lacked the depth I'm used to seeing from King. Overall, I was very pleased. The ending was very satisfying, not just for this book, but for Danny.

    My only nagging question right now is about something Dick told Danny in The Shining that flat out contradicts Dr. Sleep. If Dick knew the "ghosties" were different and could materialize and hurt Danny, why did he just tell him to close his eyes to make them go away when he was little?

    And totally irrelevant to everyone but me, SK's obsession with my life continues. My daughter's nickname is Abba and we are in Anniston
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrowley View Post
    I love every page of it and think the True Knot are excellent villains. It's not a sequel to The Shining in my view. It's a new novel with Danny from The Shining. I love Danny and he's a great character. The Shining could never have a true sequel because of the way it ended. As for being like NOS4A2.... I can't disagree more. That was cartoonish and over the top.
    When I was comparing it to NOS4A2, I was talking about the scope or time frame of the book. I agree NOS4a2 was cartoonish, etc... Dr Sleep spanned from when the shining ended and followed years of his and Abbas life. I found NOS4A2 to be excellent in the beginning when the mom was young and was finding things for people. I loved the beginning of Dr Sleep when he was moving around and trying to find his place. I would of loved for him to spend more time helping his patients, I enjoyed that aspect of the story immensely. left me wanting more in the nursing home, with his "patients".

    I also found the lady who could put people to sleep quite intriquing and thought her story could have been fleshed out a lot more

    Even ABbas powers would of made a great story

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    I am past the 300 page mark and still enjoying it immensely. In fact, I hadda take a break. Since I haven't finished yet I am making a prediction for the end. Danny, Jack, Dick & Wendy all reunite at the clearing at the end of the path at the end of Dr. Sleep. Not sure why I feel that, just a "shine" I suppose!!! LOL


    Also, I'm curious what you folks feel the differences are between the "Hotel people" and the "True Knot". Other than the obvious, they seem very much related in some ways, yet very different in others. Sort of like "cousins". Any thoughts?
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    I really enjoyed this book! abra's character is my favorite. I felt like it started kind of slow and picked up quite nicely once Dan and Abra met. I typically don't over analyze books and this one is no different. I just enjoy the story. I will get the audiobook and listen to it again before the end of the year. Maybe after a reread of The Shinng.

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    Overall an enjoyable read. Would have been content with just the recovery, hospice, and Dan's relationship with Abra as the storyline but no complaints. For me the vibe was a cross between The Dead Zone and Firestarter. It was fun coming across many sayings/adjectives that I was initially exposed to in 'Salem's Lot back in 1976 such as preternatural, desultory, trifle, jahoobies, and Jesus Jumped Up Christ. Jerusalem's Lot even gets a curtain call. A very entertaining and well written book that, while a sequel to a classic, is strong enough to stand on its own.

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    I'm almost finished (Thank you to my Dr. who was running 2 hrs behind schedule today), and I suppose I am slipping in my old age. I just did not see the

    Spoiler:
    You're my sister thing coming and I should have dammit!!!


    I have to say that I have not enjoyed, nor anticipated a King novel like this one in many years. Probably since TDT was finishing up. Don't get me wrong I tore through 11/22/63, TWTTKH, Joyland and UTD with the usual vigor, but this one just seems a little more "special"!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    I really enjoyed this book! abra's character is my favorite. I felt like it started kind of slow and picked up quite nicely once Dan and Abra met.
    This sounds promising. I have just read of their meeting, and I hope there will be some - any - development. So far I've been struggling through it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    I really enjoyed this book! abra's character is my favorite. I felt like it started kind of slow and picked up quite nicely once Dan and Abra met.
    This sounds promising. I have just read of their meeting, and I hope there will be some - any - development. So far I've been struggling through it.
    Really? Sometimes you are a quandry, Jean. Then again, "The Shining" is a favorite of mine so in many ways "Dr. Sleep" is a trip down memory lane. Just finished it earlier today. Man, I so very much enjoyed it. And, bonus, he "ended" it well!! LOL Push on, Jean I think you will be happy you did so in the end.
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    I think my biggest problem with Doctor Sleep was the pervasiveness of the AA throughout almost the entire book. I realize that, in some respects, it is integral to the story, but enough is enough.

    Other than that, I really enjoyed the book, especially the various confrontations with the True Knot. Those were truly great.

    John

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    I hate to admit it, but it's been a full week since I bought the book and I'm not even half done. I can't exactly pinpoint the issue I'm having because it's good book, I like the story, the writing is phenomenal, his dialogue is true to life, characters are believable and I really should be enthralled...except I'm not.

    I'm not a writer so I'll try to explain this in terms in know: music. Imagine 11/22/63, Joyland and Doctor Sleep are songs, or better yet records. It feels like King used the same guitar on all three, the same standard tuning, through the same old trusty amp and cab combination, and while these are just tools, he also seems to start each song in the same key. Most songs on an individual album will start with either a drum beat, or a guitar riff, or a bass line, feedback, a sample etc. or any combination of them. Further, most bigger bands will use a different studio and even different producers for each consecutive record. Example are first five Metallica albums. You'll never confuse them because they're so distinct from one another (production, song structures, sound, lyrics) but you will never for a second forget it's the same band.

    Shift back to those three books being novels. While I was reading those books, it felt like King wrote them in the same sitting. I'm not stupid enough to think that's what happened but to me that's the feel/vibe I'm getting. He seems to have used the same voice on all three books, even though they're such different books. It feels like he finished Joyland, made himself a cup of coffee and dove right into Doctor Sleep.

    This would, I think, be less of an issue for me if it weren't three books in a row. I'm looking at my shelf and I picked three books at random: The Eyes of the Dragon, Misery, Tommyknockers. Each distinct and a voice fitting to the story. I could add It and The Dark Half to make it five books in a row and they all feeldifferent. Different guitar, amp, different tuning etc. I could have picked any 3-5 random books it seems: FaB8, Lisey's Story, Duma Key, Cell, JAS, UtD. Again, different voice in all of them.

    The problem is probably me. I was expecting and hoping King would hurt me. I was hoping he would (pardon my language, but it fits) fuck me up. I was imagining King laughing this mean belly laughter bwahaha, because he did say that this was going to be one scary book. Scares and cheap thrills are not why I read King, but man, I'd love to see King scare the living bejeezus out of me once again.

    So, this is my melodramatic explanation why Doctor Sleep didn't completely "grab me." It's a good book for sure, but it wouldn't make Top Ten. Top 15 maybe. Top 20 for sure.

    Late edit: I just remembered an article from the Stephen King special editon of Fantasy & Science Fiction. I can't remember it exactly, and the book is in storage, but there is non-fiction article on success and books of Stephen King and the author says something about all the different voices and styles of Stephen King. He goes on about King's ability to change his style from book to book. I think that's what I was hoping for with Doctor Sleep.

    Late edit 2: I'm not even half done with the book. My mind is completely open and my opinion could change by the time I'm done with the book. We'll see.

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    Remember folks, this thread is marked for spoilers. I've finished the book and I'm going to talk about it here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    The only small hiccup (that for some reason is nagging at me) is the different slant on the Danny/Jack relationship. I mean, I pretty well get the reason behind it to a degree, but for some reason it is a little "off-putting". IMHO.

    Edit: Perhaps, it is just that it somewhat deflates my personal feeling of a "silver lining, in anotherwise very dark cloud", with regard to the end of "The Shining".
    Actually, I always felt that Jack and Danny had a very close relationship. If you remember from the shining, when Danny was distressed he always ran to Jack. Wendy even had jealous feelings about how close they were. I don't feel that Dan's love for his father in this book is out of line. Remember, time heals wounds. Any bitterness he may have felt towards his dad after the Overlook would lessen over time. And adults tend to forget about their problems with their parents from childhood as they grow older. Dan doesn't seem to have a problem pointing out to Abbra at the end all the faults of the Torrence family and their anger, including pointing out what his father did to him and his mom. Personally, I kind of choked up a bit at the end of the Overlook confrontation when Danny saw his father's ghost.

    I liked Dan, Abbra, and most of the 'good guy' characters. I even liked the True Knot 'bad guys' quite a bit. Imo, there could have been a bit more character development of the Knot. Actually, I was really surprised at the short length of the book, I expected a lot more 'stuff', and lot longer book. Especially after the extended wait.

    I would have liked to have more development of the ghosties and the inherent evilness of the Overlook spot. I really felt that was glossed over a bit, especially with all the fear Dan had surrounding going back to Colorado and the dreams. I was expecting more, especially after Dan unlocked the ghosties in his mind and set them loose on the Knot.

    I enjoyed the discussion of Dan's alcoholism and AA stuff. That was developed well, and I suspect a lot of that was King's personal experience. I also enjoyed the Doctor Sleep part of Dan's life as well. And never caught the connection to Doc from the Shining. That was a nice closed circle.

    I was not expecting a lot of Shining stuff in this book, I wasn't expecting a sequel to that book, but a story about Dan Torrence as he grew up and went on in life. I didn't read a lot of the hype or buy into that because I wanted to go into the book without a lot of expectations. I did enjoy a lot of the links to the shining that did appear in the story. I would have liked to have heard more about what happened to Wendy and Dick.

    It did occur to me though near the end of the book, that this could have been about anybody. The story could have been told without Danny Torrence and the characters from the shining and been a good Stephen King book all on its own. I got a lot of vibes from other books in this one. I get a lot of Black House and Jack in Dan's character. The True Knot give me a vibe of the vampires from Salem's Lot and DT. There's lots of pieces of other books in this book.

    I will say, I saw the brother/sister thing coming from a mile away. Totally predictable.

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    BTW, the narrator on this audio book was so-so. I had a love/hate relationship with him. He was good at some times, made things really creepy, but then some of the voices all blended together. It was Wil Patton who narrated it.

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    I will come back to this thread when I finish the book (very soon), so now I've just skimmed WDiL's big post, but it seems he managed to put his finger on what feels wrong with the book. Sorry Bill, I really really wanted to love it (not only because it's King, but because you loved it, too!)

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    Gunslinger Apprentice mtdman has a spectacular aura about mtdman has a spectacular aura about mtdman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeDealInLead View Post
    I hate to admit it, but it's been a full week since I bought the book and I'm not even half done. I can't exactly pinpoint the issue I'm having because it's good book, I like the story, the writing is phenomenal, his dialogue is true to life, characters are believable and I really should be enthralled...except I'm not.

    I'm not a writer so I'll try to explain this in terms in know: music. Imagine 11/22/63, Joyland and Doctor Sleep are songs, or better yet records. It feels like King used the same guitar on all three, the same standard tuning, through the same old trusty amp and cab combination, and while these are just tools, he also seems to start each song in the same key. Most songs on an individual album will start with either a drum beat, or a guitar riff, or a bass line, feedback, a sample etc. or any combination of them. Further, most bigger bands will use a different studio and even different producers for each consecutive record. Example are first five Metallica albums. You'll never confuse them because they're so distinct from one another (production, song structures, sound, lyrics) but you will never for a second forget it's the same band.

    Shift back to those three books being novels. While I was reading those books, it felt like King wrote them in the same sitting. I'm not stupid enough to think that's what happened but to me that's the feel/vibe I'm getting. He seems to have used the same voice on all three books, even though they're such different books. It feels like he finished Joyland, made himself a cup of coffee and dove right into Doctor Sleep.

    This would, I think, be less of an issue for me if it weren't three books in a row. I'm looking at my shelf and I picked three books at random: The Eyes of the Dragon, Misery, Tommyknockers. Each distinct and a voice fitting to the story. I could add It and The Dark Half to make it five books in a row and they all feeldifferent. Different guitar, amp, different tuning etc. I could have picked any 3-5 random books it seems: FaB8, Lisey's Story, Duma Key, Cell, JAS, UtD. Again, different voice in all of them.

    The problem is probably me. I was expecting and hoping King would hurt me. I was hoping he would (pardon my language, but it fits) fuck me up. I was imagining King laughing this mean belly laughter bwahaha, because he did say that this was going to be one scary book. Scares and cheap thrills are not why I read King, but man, I'd love to see King scare the living bejeezus out of me once again.

    So, this is my melodramatic explanation why Doctor Sleep didn't completely "grab me." It's a good book for sure, but it wouldn't make Top Ten. Top 15 maybe. Top 20 for sure.

    Late edit: I just remembered an article from the Stephen King special editon of Fantasy & Science Fiction. I can't remember it exactly, and the book is in storage, but there is non-fiction article on success and books of Stephen King and the author says something about all the different voices and styles of Stephen King. He goes on about King's ability to change his style from book to book. I think that's what I was hoping for with Doctor Sleep.

    Late edit 2: I'm not even half done with the book. My mind is completely open and my opinion could change by the time I'm done with the book. We'll see.
    I can agree with the same 'voice' thing over the past several books. I think it is a function of King over time. I much prefer 70s and 80s King, when every book was a different voice and adventure. But still, he has done good work this century. 11.22.63 comes to mind.

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