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Thread: Susan and Cuthbert

  1. #51
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    Well, you could almost say Ka is the plot itself. Or more precisely, what drives the plot. Writers always say that the characters take on lives of their own when written properly. Plot points are like curveballs thrown at the characters, much like Ka is used in DT. The only difference is that the characters are able to see these plot points as Ka due to the magical nature of the world(s) they live in.
    So if Roland and Susan believe it ka (most of the people in the book do, too) it means their lives must be influenced by ka?

    Roland would have understood.

  2. #52
    Banned Jimmy is on a distinguished road

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    Psychologically speaking, no.

    Magically speaking, yes yes yes.

  3. #53
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    Psychologically speaking, no.

    Magically speaking, yes yes yes.
    I see.
    But here we are not speaking about fairies angles or dragons or stuff like that. We are talking about humans.
    Can we miss and not look at the psychological side?

    I am sure it's nice to believe and think that they met and they fell in love with each other because of ka. And Susan was crying Roland's name while she was burning because it was ka and Roland couldn't forget her during his long long hard life because of ka but somehow for me it's more logical.. moreover it's more magical as well to think that happened what happend because
    they loved each other
    they met at the right time
    they needed each other
    and because they were who they were and their love was true.

    I really wouldn't like to argue about it. It's nice that we believe in other things.
    Anyway I don't say I don't believe in ka at all. There are things that must happen but I think we are the smith of our fate and we have responsibilites over our acts and we can't blame always ka.

    Roland would have understood.

  4. #54
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    they loved each other
    they met at the right time
    they needed each other
    and because they were who they were and their love was true.
    I believe all of those things are Ka working Letti. And you are right, its great that we all believe different stuff.

    Destiny, to me, is not an excuse. More of a way to understand that we all have a purpose. But people look at stuff differently and that is great.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  5. #55
    Banned Jimmy is on a distinguished road

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    It's a story about cowboys questing for the nexus of reality while fighting giant lobsters, killer trains, vampires and a giant baby headed spider.

    Where's the logic there?

    Why try to apply logic to some parts of the story, if you can't apply logic to others?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    It's a story about cowboys questing for the nexus of reality while fighting giant lobsters, killer trains, vampires and a giant baby headed spider.

    Where's the logic there?

    Why try to apply logic to some parts of the story, if you can't apply logic to others?
    Beautifully stated.

  7. #57
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    they loved each other
    they met at the right time
    they needed each other
    and because they were who they were and their love was true.
    I believe all of those things are Ka working Letti. And you are right, its great that we all believe different stuff.

    Destiny, to me, is not an excuse. More of a way to understand that we all have a purpose. But people look at stuff differently and that is great.
    I don't answer this one because that would be absolutely about ka and in ka thread I think you have already read my thoughts about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    It's a story about cowboys questing for the nexus of reality while fighting giant lobsters, killer trains, vampires and a giant baby headed spider.

    Where's the logic there?

    Why try to apply logic to some parts of the story, if you can't apply logic to others?
    For me this book is absolutely about humans, about their fights and fates. The frame... that's unique and tale/fantasy-like. Not ordinary.
    But still logical. For my part I do see logic everywhere in it.

    Roland would have understood.

  8. #58
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I don't answer this one because that would be absolutely about ka and in ka thread I think you have already read my thoughts about it.
    Sure have, sorry about that
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  9. #59
    Banned Jimmy is on a distinguished road

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    I don't know what to tell you Letti. I believe in Ka's place in the story as much as Roland does. Whether or not it exists is merely conjecture.

  10. #60
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I don't answer this one because that would be absolutely about ka and in ka thread I think you have already read my thoughts about it.
    Sure have, sorry about that
    Oh, I am sorry. I just try not to get into deep off-topic you know. I could talk about ka forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    I don't know what to tell you Letti. I believe in Ka's place in the story as much as Roland does. Whether or not it exists is merely conjecture.
    It's understandable. I hope you can understand my views as well.

    Roland would have understood.

  11. #61
    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    [quote=Letti;48620][quote=Matt;48614]
    .....For me this book is absolutely about humans, about their fights and fates. The frame... that's unique and tale/fantasy-like. Not ordinary.
    But still logical. For my part I do see logic everywhere in it .
    Yes, absolutely!
    OK, certain things in it may be outside the (narrow) confines of our 'real' world, but that does not add up to 'illogic' for me.

    Great debate btw!
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  12. #62
    Constant Reader Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts has a spectacular aura about Darkthoughts's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    oh, I'm sure it would have been love. As great, passionate, and self-sacrificing as with Roland. With first love, it doesn't depend on the object, only on the one who falls in love because it's time, and because she (sometimes he) knows very well - from the lore - what love is supposed to be, and if the person in love is by nature whole and strong, there you are. Cuthbert, Roland, Alain, doesn't really matter..
    Jean, you are such a cynic!

    I don't think we're doing first love or teenagers much justice here! I absolutely don't believe you fall in love for the first time with any old person just because "its time". Yes, she did find Cuthbert attractive, but you don't then fall in love with some one just because of asthetics.

  13. #63
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    No, you don't. Nobody knows why you do. I beg everyone here to remember their first love, and then tell me that it didn't just happen because it was time. And I think my position is rather romantic than cynical... I admire the force that drives the young to fall in love, you see... and, in extreme cases, to die for the sake of that love, whether or not the object was worthy of it - just because the one who sacrifices him- (more often her-) self is capable of integrity to the point of sacrificing. I hope it clarifies my position for Nikolett, too.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. #64
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    I see your position more clearly Though I still disagree with the main point of the discourse, even thinking back on my first love.

  15. #65
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Okay, just let me know Jean what you mean by "it was time".

    Roland would have understood.

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    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    Jean, I just don't agree on the "....and then tell me that it didn't just happen because it was time...." idea.
    But that's ok. I hear you, I just don't agree.
    I think it has to be the right person (maybe at the right time as well?.. though no, I don't think so either - can easily be wrong time too...). It may not be the right person for-ever, but has to be the right person at that time ? (Maybe I've lost the plot here - have trouble following my own reasoning ! )
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  17. #67
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    I know what you're trying to say MoW...its what I'm trying to say too

  18. #68
    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    I know what you're trying to say MoW...its what I'm trying to say too
    Tell me if you figure it out
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  19. #69
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    This time thing is not clear to me, either.
    I mean, okay let's say they fell in love because it was time.
    Do you say if Susan had been a stupid chick who can't put words together to make an understandable sentence and can't write down her name without a mistake Roland would still have fallen in love with her?
    Or Susan would have loved Roland the same way if Roland had tried to grap her breasts without hesitation like a hungry dog in that evening?
    I don't think so.
    But if there were so many other things that made them love each other why is the TIME the main reason for you, Jean?

    If there is a castle with lots of lost treasures inside you must find the door (time) to get into to get those treasures (their souls). And when you hold the treasure in your hand you become rich (love).

    /// Letti, stop here because you are not too understandable.///

    On that evening they found the door (the right time) to be able to see each others' treasures (souls) and because they needed each other and they found valuable what they saw in each other they became rich (because they fall in love.

    So... what do you need to become rich or fall in love?
    The time (door)?
    Their souls (treasures)?

    I think both. Neither of them could exist without the other.
    They met at the right time AND they found something very loveable and pricesless in each other and that's why it became love.

    But anyway I guess Jean you mean by time that they were teenagers - hungry for love.

    *reads back*


    If someone can understand this explanation I will pick up my hat for them.
    I don't delete it because I have been working on it for so damn long...
    Last edited by Letti; 12-31-2007 at 12:24 AM.

    Roland would have understood.

  20. #70
    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    Actually Letti, that's pretty well put.
    ... and do you mean you will '...eat your hat'?
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  21. #71
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    I think she means tip her hat, but yes I agree, that clears up your stand point on it for me, and again, you have further drawn me to your ideas

  22. #72
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManOfWesternesse View Post
    Actually Letti, that's pretty well put.
    ... and do you mean you will '...eat your hat'?
    If you say my last post made sense... yeah, I'm gonna eat my hat happily.

    Roland would have understood.

  23. #73
    Citizen of Gilead stone, rose, unfound door is on a distinguished road stone, rose, unfound door's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    What would have happened if Susan had met Cuthbert first and not Roland?
    I hope she'd have fallen for him!

  24. #74
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by stone, rose, unfound door View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    What would have happened if Susan had met Cuthbert first and not Roland?
    I hope she'd have fallen for him!
    Would you prefer that story?

    Roland would have understood.

  25. #75
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    Nah, they might have got it oooon But it wouldn't have been a relationship with the same intensity as Roland and her.

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