The Great Smoking Debate

[Jean]

food for thought

[sarah]

I forgot, they are also trying to pass a law now that makes it illegal in the state of California to smoke in your car if there is a child in the car with you. Crazy, no? Maybe I just find it so because when I was growing up EVERYONE smoked.

I think that law passed and you can't smoke in your car if there is a child under the age of 18 in the car with you. California has super strict smoking laws.


I don't really care if people smoke. I don't care if they do drugs. I think people can do whatever they want to their body and it really isn't my business. It is my business if it effects me, like drinking or drugging and driving. smoking on the other hand is that persons business.

The only thing that really bothers me, is when people smoke around their kids or smoke or do drugs while pregnant. I feel that a person gives up their own rights when they decide to have a child and they should do whatever possible while pregnant to protect the health of the unborn child. With everything we now know about smoking and pregnancy, i just can't understand why a woman would risk it and smoke while pregnant.


And when you have kids you should do everything possible not to smoke around them, imo. let them grow up and decide for themselves if they want to smoke. don't force that secondhand smoke on a kid. I don't think that is fair. I think it is selfish. I think if you have kids and you smoke you shouldn't smoke in front of them.

[Darkthoughts]

With everything we now know about smoking and pregnancy, i just can't understand why a woman would risk it and smoke while pregnant.

I agree Sarah.

My kids don't even know I smoke, because I only smoke in the pub when I'm out drinking with my friends. I don't think I'd like them to know either, as they constantly guilt trip Rob about it

I'm not sure how having parents who smoke, really influences a child's future decision though. I know two sisters years ago who's parents both smoked. The one sister smoked because she considered it simply something you did when you were older. But the other sister didn't (and still doesn't) precisely because her parents did and she couldn't stand it.

[alinda]

*sits back and enjoyes the irony*

Really people do just what they want to do in any and all circumstances.
I find it amusing that "we" are in constant struggle with such issues.
Darkthoughts, I love that nature/nurture thing you got going on in that story ( the 2 sisters) but as a parent let me warn you in my experience, my kids knew ( know) EVERYTHING weither I told them or not....they're just so intuitive about what we attempt to hide from them ( I love kids) and believe that when we are born we know more (possibly all ) there is to know, and spend our lives forgetting and being "taught" all manner of lies. The habits and adictions we aquire in an attempt to find "happiness" in a material world when were such spiritual creatures is redundant.

[Darkthoughts]

but as a parent let me warn you in my experience, my kids knew ( know) EVERYTHING weither I told them or not....

Something very amusing happened yesterday actually. I was at the pub and my husband bought our eldest along (9 years old) to watch a football match. I sneaked outside (we have the smoking ban in the UK nowtoo) for a smoke - it was just me and one other guy out there.

Sam came out so I put the cig in the ashtray before he saw. In the middle of saying something he looked at this cigarette in the ashtray...then at the guy smoking...then at the cigarette...then at me..."Hmmmm...who's cigarette is that?" he asks me - "Oh Paul (a friend of ours) went in and left it there" I said, Sam chuckled and scrunched the ciggie out and into pieces "Well, he can't have it now!" he laughs.

I was gutted - I was really enjoying that smoke - the guy next to me couldn't stop laughing

[alinda]

Thanks for that affirmation DT, I see what you mean, Got to love the way kids handle the situations we put ourselves in!! funny!!

[Wuducynn]

I'm going to chime in where I come out in the smoking issue and leave it at that because I don't view this site as a place to come and debate over this kind of thing but to talk about the Dark Tower series.
For me I am appalled at the banning of smoking across the country in a nation that used to consider itself free. Free meaning if a business wants to allow smoking it was THEIR business or a person wants to smoke in their home it was THEIR business.
Its not the governments place to be telling folk what they should or should not be doing with their bodies, that goes with pregnancies, drugs (including nicotine and alcohol), and sex.
If I don't want to work in a place that has smoking, no one is forcing me to be employed there, nor am I forced to go into an establishment that allows smoking, nor are my children. I and I alone am responsible for my children, not the government nor would I want a bunch of bureacrats watching out for my kids.
The anti-smoking crusade is an hysteria and has grown worse and worse over the years. When I grew up in the 70's and 80's there were plenty of restaurants that allowed smoking and I could choose not to go in there even as a kid (imagine that I was smart enough to decide for myself where I wanted to go!). Most places were perfectly well ventilated so it wasn't a problem.
I don't buy into this crap of "oh even a little bit of a second hand smoke does permanent damage" that I've heard all over the place. Second hand smoke is NOT the killer that some make it out to be.
Someone above mentioned that its going the way where soon fatty foods and sugary foods will be banned etc etc and yep thats the truth, more nanny government. Its happening in NYC where the city government banned trans-fats from restaurants. Oh thank you NYC government I'm sure its YOUR business to protect everyone depending on the fad "bad boy" dietary thing of the moment.

[Darkthoughts]

I'm going to chime in where I come out in the smoking issue and leave it at that because I don't view this site as a place to come and debate over this kind of thing but to talk about the Dark Tower series...

...and my sado-masochistic relationship with Monte

[alinda]

oh boy!! I am so happy to have met you all!!
Y'all really make me smile!! hee!

[Wuducynn]

I'm going to chime in where I come out in the smoking issue and leave it at that because I don't view this site as a place to come and debate over this kind of thing but to talk about the Dark Tower series...

...and my sado-masochistic relationship with Monte

That goes without saying.

[sarajean]

okay, so...i'm a smoker. i smoke outside, i never smoke around my kids. that being said...

all of the testing that has been done on the effects of second hand smoke were done where the tip of a cigarette was less than 6 inches away from the device doing the reading, not with smoke dispersed through a room or outside.

what I really hate is when i'm outside in a designated smoking area and someone walks by and gives a fake little cough and a dirty look. it really makes me want to punch someone, and i'm not normally an angry person in real life.

[ZoNeSeeK]

What I would like this to be is a polite argument about smoking, no one getting up in each others faces on either side of the fence.

As a non-smoker, I have always found it difficult to understand why people smoke. I've had two close relatives die from lung cancer, one that had it, recovered, and then continued t smoke after her recovery. I dont understand how people rationalize that smoking is okay to do, and thats what I'd like to find out from this thread.

My opinion on smoking, from .net: Although I am a non-smoker, I do respect a smokers right to smoke with few exceptions. That being said, the respect should be mutual. Like when someone just has to light up in a public place, especially with young children or pregnant people around. That grinds my gears, big time. Have some respect for the people around you and go to a more private location to smoke, and then I'll respect you for doing it. Smoking is bad for you, and although the heath risks and negative effects of smoking are arguable till the end of time, there needs to be a mutual respect between people who smoke and people who dont. Smoking is not going to go away, so we have to deal with it. Non-smokers are not going to suddenly cave and allow it to run rampant and have something they have no control over effect there health due to second hand-smoke. There is no way for either side to win. Unfortunately.

People who smoke due to peer pressure and for petty reasons deserve whatever end they meet at the hands of smoking. I understand that it is relaxing and a stress reliever for a lot of people, and often people who get into hard times start smoking for those reasons. Those are acceptable reasons in my books. Most others are not.

Please keep it friendly, and I look forward to the dicussion.

People smoke because they are addicted to Nicotine, and nicotine is highly physically addictive (i.e. you will experience physical symptoms if you stop and the urge to maintain the addiction is almost overwhelming), and not for any other reason. When you first smoke, Nicotine receptors in your brain develop. Their sole job is to respond to nicotine levels in your bloodstream and if the levels are low or absent, then they create effects and sensations to make it enjoyable to light up and create that 'craving' sensation.

Smoking is also psychological addictive in the form of habitual behaviour, which is closely linked with the physical addiction side of things - i.e. You train your body into when to expect to receive nicotine. Like what Lisa was saying about only smoking at the Pub. Her brain knows that when she is sitting in the pub with a beer she will soon feed her body nicotine, so the receptors light up and go crazy, creating the urge response to smoke. This probably doesn't happen to her at home because the triggers are not there. This is the basis behind everyone's smoking patterns and is incredibly difficult to break.

This is why people keep smoking when they know its bad for them - sating an addiction is always pleasurable. Someone who has never smoked will never be able to understand what this feels like - and thats a good thing, not a bad thing

I quit smoking over a year ago and had smoked for about 9 years and it wasn't easy but it definitely wasn't as hard as previous times or as hard as I thought it was going to be, and I think there's a few things that definitely helped:

- Find someone to quit with. The support can be extremely helpful as you don't want to let the other down. But always realise that if they crack its not an excuse for you to

- Plan ahead - make the decision to stop smoking a couple of months before your quit date. Say now at the end of October, you could aim to quit on Jan 1st. This gives you some time to mentally prepare for the trial ahead. Keep telling yourself that this is the day you're quitting and commit to the decision.

- If you smoke at work, try and kick this before your full quit date. If you are used to being a non-smoker during the work day, this will help alot when you quit altogether as at least your work-time isn't affected by the quitting symptoms as you're body is already used to not smoking at work.

- Don't try to be a hero, use a quitting aid. Some people can handle cold turkey but the success rates of people using aids as opposed to those not using them speak for themselves. If you use an aid you have a higher chance of staying off the smokes.

- Try and break your trigger-habits as soon as you can. Avoiding drinking coffee or alcohol or going to the pub or parties because this triggers a craving won't help as you'll have to deal with it eventually. Its much easier to nip it in the bud as soon as possible and you'll be surprised how quickly (albeit difficult) the habbit will change.

The reasons why people take up smoking are almost negligible - its the addictive properties that keep people smoking which is why Big Tobacco is extremely responsible for their product - Nicotine should be a banned substance and it baffles me as to why its not.

And as a smoker I completely agreed with banning smoking from public places unless they have designated outside areas, which is fine (it happened about 2 years ago over here). Any kind of smoke is harmful to breathe in and its a basic right to work and go about your day in public without breathing in smoke. And at the end of the day, its a habit that will be phased out eventually as it serves no purpose and the only reason people smoke is because they are addicted. Its the government's job to set what is publically acceptable - its about setting trends, not "big brothering" your life - the health and wellbeing of the general population and the standards that are deemed acceptable to maintain the health and wellbeing of the general population is more important than being able to smoke inside a shopping mall. I don't care if passive smoking is harmful or not - its fucking irritating getting facefulls of cigarette smoke in ANY situation.

Some people are better at making informed decisions regarding their health and wellbing of themselves and their children than others. Whether this makes it "their fault" is a meritocratic viewpoint and completely irrelevant - why should companies sell products that are harmful to people and are marketed in a way that take advantage of a situation where less educated people with poorer decision making abilities are targetted? Absolutely the government should intervene - it is their job to ensure a healthy, functioning society - and why would they want to eventually pay through a public health system for the heart bypass surgery caused by smoking or obesity? Its not as simple as saying "people can make their own decision" - of course they can, but when you have a nation of fatties dying from heart disease then maybe this aint such a good avenue to go down.

You think US laws are getting tight at the moment? Look at what our cigarette packets look like:

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wc...ng-packs-A.htm

[Erin]

Holy cow...that gangrene picture....:gag:

I'm a non-smoker and always have been. I grew up with a smoking father and it just turned me off from it. But I really have no problems with smokers at all.

Anyways, I'm all for banning smoking in public buildings, as long as the smokers are compensated as well (have adequate outdoor facilities or smoking rooms like in airports). As for these newer laws banning smoking in private places like apartments and cars? That's crazy. A person should be allowed to do whatever they want in their homes or cars.

All that being said, just like I hate rude people of all types, I don't like rude smokers. Like this one time, I was giving my ex-boyfriend and his co-worker a ride home from work in my car. As we're driving along, I start to smell something, I look in the rear-view mirror and the guy is smoking in my car, with the windows rolled up, ashing in my cupholder! I freaked the hell out. It took a good 5 minutes for my boyfriend to convince me not to kick him out on the side of the road and make him walk the rest of the way home.

[ZoNeSeeK]

I'll add that I don't agree with banning any behaviour from private spaces - people can do what they want in their own privacy. If you're sharing a public space though, it just comes down to courtesy ;P

While driving though is a bit of a different area - I still think smoking while driving poses some form of hazard to other drivers on the road. People generally don't calmly pull over if the burning end of their smoke lands next to their balls. But statistically there doesn't seem to be much evidence to suggest this is a real public danger so people can do what they want in their cars. Jury is out on the smoking with kids in the car thing - you can't dictate what people do around their kids while at home so I'm not sure how effective it would be trying to enforce something like that.

People shouldnt fucking do it anyway.

[Yassig]

Anyways, I'm all for banning smoking in public buildings, as long as the smokers are compensated as well (have adequate outdoor facilities or smoking rooms like in airports).

I'm sorry to find the humor in this statement, and maybe it's different at airports that I have not been to, but I always find it mildly amusing when I pass by the smoking section in an airport. It's a glass-surrounded box, filled to the brim with the poor smokers, with a haze at the top of the room while everyone sucks down their nicotine fix. I always feel like they're put on display or something. Maybe that's just me, speaking as a non-smoker. I just always think of a zoo exhibit as I pass by...

[Erin]

True, it makes no sense why the walls have to be clear. Paint 'em.

[Brice]

1.People smoke because they are addicted to Nicotine, and nicotine is highly physically addictive (i.e. you will experience physical symptoms if you stop and the urge to maintain the addiction is almost overwhelming), and not for any other reason.

I've gotta' disagree with the idea that addiction is the only reason people smoke. I could perhaps agree it is the primary reason usually.

2.When you first smoke, Nicotine receptors in your brain develop. Their sole job is to respond to nicotine levels in your bloodstream and if the levels are low or absent, then they create effects and sensations to make it enjoyable to light up and create that 'craving' sensation.

Actually, you have nicotinic receptors in your brain (and also throughout various parts of your body) from birth. You have what are called acetylcholine receptors which regulate levels of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. These receptors also have other affinities and are classified by those. You have both muscarinic and nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. We can ignore the muscarinic ones for now, as they are not really relevant to this. A secondary or perhaps tertiary affinity of the nicotinic receptors is of course to nicotine and it's ability to bind to them. This was really just to show that you do not develop nicotine receptors when you begin smoking. Everyone (all mammals actually) has/have them naturally from birth.

Now, you're advice against smoking I'd have to agree with up until the point of government intervention. While there is some medically legitimate and sound evidence that smoking does have some health benefits the risks generally appear to outweigh those I would say.

[Darkthoughts]

Nicotine should be a banned substance and it baffles me as to why its not.

It puzzles me too.

[Brice]

Nicotine should be a banned substance and it baffles me as to why its not.

It puzzles me too.

Because prohibition never works.

[Storyslinger]

I personally am not a smoker, but know many who do. I agree that it should be banned, but like Brice said, it would never work. Also, I think that even with their sections to smoke in, they are still being displayed like Yassig said

[Jimmy]

If America always has a scapegoat, what was it before smoking? Or have all of us 'nazis' just sprung up all of a sudden in the 21st century? You make it sound as if we're extremists. I dont believe smoking is wrong for no reason, I've had people close to me die directly because of it. So its personal, not petty.

I have also never gotten up in somenes face and tried to make them feel guilty or 'less of a person' as you put it.

Ok, in no particular order...

AMERICA'S SCAPEGOATS
African Americans
Women
The Irish
Asians
Mexicans
Religious groups
Hippies
Homosexuals
Teenagers
Musicians
Movies
Guns
Overweight people

That's just some of the scapegoats. Whenever I'm somewhere OUTSIDE, and I'm told that I can't smoke there, the first thing that pops up in my head is, "Go to the back of the bus, ni**er."

The last time I was told to smoke in the "Smoking Area" outside a mall, I looked over at it, and saw that the unenclosed bench was only 3 feet from where I stood. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Not being able to work for a company, because I smoke is extremism on the non-smokers part. Having to cross the street to smoke during my break is extremism.

I've had several people approach me on the street to explain to me that my smoking is bad for me, and them. I won't mention here what I say or do to them, as this thread is supposed to be friendly.

I've known several people that have died i automobile accidents. Do I try and push people to stop driving, even though it's a risk on their, and others' health?

NO.

And neither should you.

(Also, just want to give props to Jean, Brice and All Hail, well said gentlemen)

[Matt]

I'm a smoker and keep it away folks just like when I'm gassy, I do my best to fart in private.

However, I do not think it should be regulated and the second hand smoke thing is a joke. No one has ever gotten sick that way.

You inhale more carcinogens walking behind someones car crossing the street than you would from second had smoke exposure.

With that being said, its horrible for my health and I really do need to quit.

[Yassig]

However, I do not think it should be regulated and the second hand smoke thing is a joke. No one has ever gotten sick that way.

I beg to differ. I had chronic bronchitis and was always in and out of the hospital while I lived in a house with a smoker. When I moved to live with another parent, my symptoms "all of a sudden" completely disappeared and I became a normal functioning person again. I don't know much about the lung damage/cancer debate from 2nd hand smoke, but I can tell you that it severely affected my health for many years.

[Odetta]

I believe our cigarette packs have very similar pictures to your is Australia, ZoNe!

I would never say anything about cancer to someone who smokes... like you haven't already heard it anyhow. Besides, it's your choice to smoke, so do what you want.

I would NEVER tell someone to stop smoking in their own home around my children! It's your house.... I would ask you to smoke outside of my home, but your castle is your castle.


I think that second hand smoke CAN be a problem. For example, I know 2 children who had parents who smoked the kids' whole lives and both kids had extremely aggressive asthma (sp) and allergies. The kids even told me that the doctors insisted that the parents smoke outside the house rather than in.
As for walking down the street next to a patio where people are smoking, I don't think the second hand smoke will do much at all, but prolonged exposure could have an effect on some people.

[Matt]

Very true Yassig.

I should have said "second hand smoke causes cancer" is a joke.

I am sure that people with a proclivity towards respiratory stuff do not mix well with people who smoke in any cases.