The Great Smoking Debate

[Kevin]

What I would like this to be is a polite argument about smoking, no one getting up in each others faces on either side of the fence.

As a non-smoker, I have always found it difficult to understand why people smoke. I've had two close relatives die from lung cancer, one that had it, recovered, and then continued t smoke after her recovery. I dont understand how people rationalize that smoking is okay to do, and thats what I'd like to find out from this thread.

My opinion on smoking, from .net: Although I am a non-smoker, I do respect a smokers right to smoke with few exceptions. That being said, the respect should be mutual. Like when someone just has to light up in a public place, especially with young children or pregnant people around. That grinds my gears, big time. Have some respect for the people around you and go to a more private location to smoke, and then I'll respect you for doing it. Smoking is bad for you, and although the heath risks and negative effects of smoking are arguable till the end of time, there needs to be a mutual respect between people who smoke and people who dont. Smoking is not going to go away, so we have to deal with it. Non-smokers are not going to suddenly cave and allow it to run rampant and have something they have no control over effect there health due to second hand-smoke. There is no way for either side to win. Unfortunately.

People who smoke due to peer pressure and for petty reasons deserve whatever end they meet at the hands of smoking. I understand that it is relaxing and a stress reliever for a lot of people, and often people who get into hard times start smoking for those reasons. Those are acceptable reasons in my books. Most others are not.

Please keep it friendly, and I look forward to the dicussion.

[Odetta]

I for one am glad that I live in a city where smoking is essentially banned from public places (except outside). My youngest daughter has respiratory problems and I have some allergies to cigarette smoke, so it's nice to be able to breathe.
That being said, I don't care if people smoke... just don't blow it in my face.

[Darkthoughts]

I'm a part time smoker - neither my husband nor I smoke at home, infact I only smoke if I'm at the pub. Its sort of strange that I smoke at all because, if I don't goto the pub for two weeks, then I don't smoke for two weeks...but I don't feel right having a pint without a ciggy.

I didn't smoke throughout my pregnancies, I think its selfish when people do.

[Yassig]

I knew you'd show up in this thread Lisa.

I hate cigarette smoke. I am really allergic to it, I hate the smell of it, and it is slowly killing my mom as we speak. That being said, I believe that adults are allowed to make their own choices, and if smoking is yours you should have the right to light up where it doesn't harm anyone. I just don't want you blowing it my or my kid's face.

I live in California, which has some of the toughest anti-smoking laws around. In fact, one of the suburbs close by won't let you smoke outside in public anymore, or even in your car. You have to be in a house. I think that might be taking it to the extreme just a little...

[alinda]

hummmmm, at my house, you can smoke out side but not inside.

[Yassig]

I forgot, they are also trying to pass a law now that makes it illegal in the state of California to smoke in your car if there is a child in the car with you. Crazy, no? Maybe I just find it so because when I was growing up EVERYONE smoked.

[Darkthoughts]

Some of the bans seem like common health and safety good sense, but some seem to cross the lines of personal freedom I think.

[Telynn]

Or the one town in CA that is banning it from all apartments. That is going way too far. If a smoke-free apartment building is feasable, then I'm sure there would be one or two around. Like saying if pets are allowed, or adult only apartments. It shouldn't be legislated.

[fernandito]

I live in California, which has some of the toughest anti-smoking laws around. In fact, one of the suburbs close by won't let you smoke outside in public anymore, or even in your car. You have to be in a house.

What the...what part of California do you live in?


Unfortunately I'm a smoker. I think it was inevitable, seeing as how dad and all his brothers were chain-smokers by the time they were 16. Usually, if I'm with my friends I don't hesitate to spark one up if the cravings arise, but if I'm with other folk that I'm not around much I usually ask them if they mind if I light one up.

[Daghain]

Or the one town in CA that is banning it from all apartments. That is going way too far. If a smoke-free apartment building is feasable, then I'm sure there would be one or two around. Like saying if pets are allowed, or adult only apartments. It shouldn't be legislated.

I disagree. I live in a carriage unit condo, which means I'm over everyone's garage. The chain-smoking moron next to me (he's a moron for many reasons, not necessarily his smoking ) won't smoke in his house, but smokes in the garage all winter. It makes my office stink, and it pisses me off. It's okay not to stink up his house, but okay for mine? Thanks, asshole.

And, I smoked for ten years, so don't think I'm playing the holier-than-thou card. I was probably just as rude and inconsiderate when I did smoke, which makes me hate it all the more now that I don't. I also discovered I'm allergic to cigarette smoke, which would explain why I was sick all the time when I did smoke.

I live in a state that bans smoking in public places, and I love it. Now if I could just get my freaking neighbor to quit....

[Jimmy]

I'm a smoker, and I love smoking. What I don't love is that I'm being treated like less of a person cause of my choices.

I see no problem with segregating us from you, I just wish we got equal treatment. Smoking Only Restaurants and Bars would be nice.

For all you people that point at us and say "Cancer," just remember, the pollution from your cars is doing more damage to people than we smokers are.

[Kevin]

I dont understand how people rationalize that smoking is okay to do, and thats what I'd like to find out from this thread.

Jimmy, can you explain why you smoke? Why you love it?

I totally agree that you shouldnt be ostracized for smoking, and that there are a lot of other health risks in this world. That doesnt stop smoking from being any less potent. It is the biggest health risk in North America right now.

[flair]

I smoked for 13 or so years, just quit a few months ago. I smoked outside whenever possible. When I moved into a high rise I started smoking in the bathroom sometimes, but beyond that I've never smoked in my home. I smoked when I was out at the bar if they allowed it. Going out for dinner I never sat in the smoking section and would go outside if I needed to. I tried to always be respectful, but often I'd get dirty looks or some rude comments when I would stand outside to smoke. I never understood that, but people are jerks...this stands for smokers too. I don't know how many times I've had friends just light up in my home like it wasn't a big deal, and then look at me funny when I tell them they have to go outside. You should at least ask.

Around here they haven't banned smoking indoors yet. You can still light up at a bar, which is fine with me. I also didn't mind stepping outside of a bar to go have a smoke if it was banned in the place I was visiting. The funny thing is, for all the people that complain about smokey bars, I never have seen a bar that doesn't allow smoking do very well around here. The bar I used to frequent downstairs changed to non smoking right around the time I quit and has gone from being packed to being completely empty in about two months. I stopped going myself because I feel weird being the only one in the place drinking.

Banning smoking except in your home? That is just wrong. Might as well ban cars, factories, and all the other things that are spewing toxins into the air 24 hours a day. Smokers need to stand up for themselves, or the US just needs to ban smoking. No smoking in any restaurant seems like the right way to go to me. You can't wait 30-45 minutes? Sure you can.

[Jimmy]

I dont understand how people rationalize that smoking is okay to do, and thats what I'd like to find out from this thread.

Jimmy, can you explain why you smoke? Why you love it?

I totally agree that you shouldnt be ostracized for smoking, and that there are a lot of other health risks in this world. That doesnt stop smoking from being any less potent. It is the biggest health risk in North America right now.

I smoke because it feels good to do it. Makes me think better, and I can deal with stress with much more ease.

Actually, the biggest health risk in North America right now IS stress.

As soon as the non-smoking nazis take all of us smokers out, they're going after the overweight people. Then when they're done with them, they're going after someone else. Maybe it'll be the meat eaters. Perhaps alcohol drinkers. Who knows?

[Kevin]

If America always has a scapegoat, what was it before smoking? Or have all of us 'nazis' just sprung up all of a sudden in the 21st century? You make it sound as if we're extremists. I dont believe smoking is wrong for no reason, I've had people close to me die directly because of it. So its personal, not petty.

I have also never gotten up in somenes face and tried to make them feel guilty or 'less of a person' as you put it.

[Ruki]

if i'm already in a good mood smoking helps me stay happy, if i'm pissy it makes things suck less. i smoke as often as possible and i try not to think of what it's doing to me. i hate it when someone acts as though me smoking a few cigarettes in their house is going to give their kid cancer or make the paint melt off their walls, and the next person to bring their kid over then tell me i can't smoke in my own house is gonna have to stop by the emergency room on their way home. i usually light up without even knowing i'm doing it which makes it hard to ask if it's okay first, but i do try to be understanding of intolerance toward smokers since i constantly wonder how people have the nerve to eat dead flesh in public as if it were acceptable behavior. i'd kill a motherfucker for bringing a hamburger into my bedroom so when i'm asked to take my cancer stick outside i restrain my homicidal urges.

[Harrald]

I think I have to call a Godwin's law on this one. I had quit smoking over over 7 years. A few years ago i started again. Partly because of personal reasons and partly because I was in Europe where it was acceptable.

Now I only smoke outside my house, outside my workplace and if someone asks me to put out a smoke I will. I know from 7 years of not smoking how it can be annoying to people that don't smoke. My bride will get sinus infections if I smoke to close to her.

I still like it though, with coffee, cocktails and while walking around after dinner.

I dont understand how people rationalize that smoking is okay to do, and thats what I'd like to find out from this thread.

Jimmy, can you explain why you smoke? Why you love it?

I totally agree that you shouldnt be ostracized for smoking, and that there are a lot of other health risks in this world. That doesnt stop smoking from being any less potent. It is the biggest health risk in North America right now.

I smoke because it feels good to do it. Makes me think better, and I can deal with stress with much more ease.

Actually, the biggest health risk in North America right now IS stress.

As soon as the non-smoking nazis take all of us smokers out, they're going after the overweight people. Then when they're done with them, they're going after someone else. Maybe it'll be the meat eaters. Perhaps alcohol drinkers. Who knows?

[Jean]

As soon as the non-smoking nazis take all of us smokers out, they're going after the overweight people. Then when they're done with them, they're going after someone else. Maybe it'll be the meat eaters. Perhaps alcohol drinkers. Who knows?

Precisely. When I smoked, I always put out my cigarette when there were non-smoking people around, but every time I knew that I satisfied their artificial need, not a real one. They wouldn't object to my smoking in their presence if such a lot of propaganda didn't tell them it was objectionable. Read the literature of before-propaganda times - how many characters have their best childhood recollection of "sitting on their father's lap" and inhaing the "sweet smoke" of his pipe or cigar? And what if I feel that the color of someone's dress is bad for my nervous system? If that red someone's wearing puts me off my foot? If someone's voice is rattling my nerves? Do I have the right to make them take off their dress or shut up? No - but only because there hasn't yet been any campaign against colors or voices. And how about car exaust? How about someone eating that hamburger and thus setting such an example to people aroud that may be 100 times worse than inhaling smoke or a remote cigarette? Where is the limit?

[Kevin]

Ignore this stupid double post.

[Kevin]

As soon as the non-smoking nazis take all of us smokers out, they're going after the overweight people. Then when they're done with them, they're going after someone else. Maybe it'll be the meat eaters. Perhaps alcohol drinkers. Who knows?

1. And what if I feel that the color of someone's dress is bad for my nervous system? If that red someone's wearing puts me off my foot? If someone's voice is rattling my nerves? Do I have the right to make them take off their dress or shut up? No - but only because there hasn't yet been any campaign against colors or voices.

2. And how about car exaust? How about someone eating that hamburger and thus setting such an example to people aroud that may be 100 times worse than inhaling smoke or a remote cigarette? Where is the limit?

1. Then I'd say your way to sensitive. Smoking gives you, and others around you, cancer. I bright color might give you a headache for 15 minutes. A campaign against the color red is petty. Like I said before a campaign against smoking, at least for me, is personal.

2. I dont get it. Just becaue there are other major health concerns doesnt mean we shouldnt try and deal with this one.

[Jean]

Then I'd say your way to sensitive. Smoking gives you, and others around you, cancer. I bright color might give you a headache for 15 minutes. A campaign against the color red is petty. Like I said before a campaign against smoking, at least for me, is personal.

Fifty years ago everyone would have said campaign against smoking was petty. There's no telling what results of what scientific research the establishment will see fit to exaggerate next time. It all depends only on how much you believe in the infallibility of science and how much you're influenced by propaganda. (by the way, smoking does not give more cancer than any other aspect of modern living. Neither do I know of any positive evidence of someone's smoking giving cancer to someone who is sitting at the next table; at worst, it's another 15-minutes headache).

Just becaue there are other major health concerns doesnt mean we shouldnt try and deal with this one.

Because singling out only one seems to me hypocritical. Moreover, I consider all social mythology potentially dangerous. Especially if it leads to discriminating people on made-up grounds.

[Kevin]

Okay Jean I understand your point, and its very hard to argue with the fact that smoking has been overhyped as an issue, but I do believe science has it right when it comes to the health consequences of smoking and second-hand smoke. Unfortunately I have been influenced by a lot of anti-smoking media, and thats part of the reason I created this group, to hear the other side of the story.

Do you know of any modern scientific data that is for smoking? I'd very much like to read it.

Also, what do you see as a solution to the problem? How can their be a balance between non-smokers and smokers?

[Jean]

Okay Jean I understand your point, and its very hard to argue with the fact that smoking has been overhyped as an issue, but I do believe science has it right when it comes to the health consequences of smoking and second-hand smoke. Unfortunately I have been influenced by a lot of anti-smoking media, and thats part of the reason I created this group, to hear the other side of the story.

Do you know of any modern scientific data that is for smoking? I'd very much like to read it.

Also, what do you see as a solution to the problem?

I know that some research have shown that smoking enhances metabolism and blood circulation (in brain, too), and that smokers very seldom (as seldom as to be statistically convincing) become victims of Alzheimer's. I'll try to find a source for you, but the problem of any source's reliability is, unfortunately, hardly solvable.
I am afraid all that is, ultimately, a question of belief and scepticism. I am very sceptical about science, especially medicine, because its history shows that it asserts today what it fervently denied yesterday, and, - worse, - the other way round. The only solution I personally see is mutual tolerance and trying not to exaggerate, or not to aggravate our already difficult life with additional myths, especially if they are myths of The Enemy; but it's very much the solution of most human problems, and there's been, alas, not too many examples of its implementation in practice.

[Kevin]

I try to keep an open mind to things but I have a long way to go. North American culture is so media intensive and one-sided its hard not to agree with some of the stuff you hear, just because no one is arguing for the other side.

In the end I see that our opinions on an actual solution are similiar, even if our practices are not. Both sides need to be understanding for the relationship to work, as is the same with all human interaction.

To be perfectly honest, I created this thread mostly to hear from you specifically because I respected your opinion on the subject based on what you said on .net.

[Brice]

All of us have seen or heard of the risks of smoking/nicotine. For a little balance:

http://www.data-yard.net/10v2/parkinson.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/34/circulat...01_104_773.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/10o/gums.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/30/asthma.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/10c/nicotine.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/10b/cm.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/10b/kaposi.htm
http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/brea.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/22/ncbi.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/13/tlj.htm
http://www.forces.org/evidence/carol/carol36.htm
http://www.forces.org/evidence/carol/carol16.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/10/toben.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/10/nicoplus.htm
http://www.data-yard.net/2/13/ajog.htm
http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/liars.htm#alz
http://www.data-yard.net/2/14/ajog2.htm
http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/neural.htm

*lights up*


All that is needed is a little consideration. I try to avoid smoking around people who are bothered by it. All I ask is the same. If you do go to a restaraunt/bar where smoking is allowed do not come up to me and ask me to put it out in the smoking section or I will proceed to choke you and then give you CPR with my smoke filled lungs.

Seriously though a liitle consideration and common courtesy for others is all that's needed.