Dark Tower Same-Number Sets: Who owns them?

[Johnny007]

I believe this was a blank copy where someone wrote 1 in. Simple as that.

Kris,

If this was a blank copy, then there would be another Whelan signature above his name -- as had been done on all of the other books.

John

[Johnny007]

What a strange coincidence that several DT1 S/Ls that have hit the market within the last month and ALL have been missing the slipcase.

#1 (Currently for sale via Heritage Auctions)
#340 (Sold via Ebay)
#400 (Sold via Live Auctioneers)

Colin,

There is a slipcase for the Heritage Auction copy of The Gunslinger. It's just not pictured.

John

[OneFathom]

What a strange coincidence that several DT1 S/Ls that have hit the market within the last month and ALL have been missing the slipcase.

#1 (Currently for sale via Heritage Auctions)
#340 (Sold via Ebay)
#400 (Sold via Live Auctioneers)

Colin,

There is a slipcase for the Heritage Auction copy of The Gunslinger. It's just not pictured.

John

Ahh, good call, John. Thanks for clarifying on that one.

[Johnny007]

The auction says it is a presentation copy. According to the collectors site, and the compendium here, there were around 25 presentation copies which were unnumbered and without a slipcase. I wonder if that is what this actually is. The description does say there is a slipcase, but it is not pictured.

Can you submit questions to Heritage for clarification? Perhaps Donald Grant would know? When was the Gunslinger released? The date on the inscription could indicate if it was inscribed before or after release, and if before seems like Grant would know if this inscription was on #1, letter I or a presentation copy. Does anyone know what Dick's last name is?

Our only confirmed Presentation Copy is marked "Special" in the limitation. I think many folks use "Presentation Copy" when they actually mean inscribed, as this one is. What throws me is Whelan's signature way down low below his inscription; either he signed there normally and had space to add an inscription afterwards, or he knew ahead of time who it was going to be for; personally I think that's unlikely for a tip-in page, and besides if he knew then you'd think King would have known as well and inscribed in his signature block as well versus on the title page. Still, you might also think that if this actually was book #1 then the owner might be pre-known since it was going to be presented as something special.

I'll tell ya, if somewhere out there the DTI #1 collection is intact, that certainly questions what this book might be. Is it a Letter I? Maybe, but I doubt it ... you'd think they'd cross bars top and bottom. If it did start off life as a blank limitation copy and somebody wrote in a 1 to increase value, would they also go through the trouble of forging signatures? Or maybe this is the actual #1, and the copy in the complete set (if it still exists) used to a blank and somebody wrote in a 1. It does say that it comes with a slipcase, but you're correct in that no photos shown so is it an original or a replacement? If replacement, I'd then lean towards this being a blank copy that was inscribed and then the owner wrote in a #1. But all of this is just conjecture, what's really needed is provenance for the book; without that I wouldn't drop a penny on it.

Questions may absolutely be submitted to Heritage, they're very good about it actually and will update descriptions or even pull lots when there are questions.

Despite that this post might jeopardize my chances of winning HA’s The Gunslinger lot, I'll write it anyway.

First of all, this book is 100% authentic. There should be no doubt about it. Second, when was the last time there has been any research done to verify the current owner's (when listed) of a particular set? The original owner of set #1 was Harold (Hal) Kinney. He owned The Bookie book and comic store in Hartford, CT for more than 40 years. Unfortunately, Mr. Kinney passed away in late-September 2013. Almost 8 years for the set to be dismantled (perhaps one of the subsequent books was damaged, lost or stolen) ... or kept intact by an heir, or sold intact privately.

FYI -- The Gunslinger was published on 10 June 1982. This inscription was five weeks later. In my opinion, the inscription is to Richard (Dick) Fawcett. Fawcett was a school administrator in CT and the founder (or co-founder) of The August Derleth Society. Derleth was a prolific writer and a friend of H.P. Lovecraft and published many of Lovecraft’s works through his Arkham House publishing company. Now this gets interesting!

If this is #1, how did Hal Kinney get it? Did Fawcett trade with Kinney enabling Kinney to continue to receive book #1 in the Dark Tower series? It’s possible. Both are close to each other geographically and both are in similar book circles. Any trade could have occurred almost any time.

But there are also other clues that might dispute that. Those clues are readily available and could sway your opinion one way or another (number vs letter). King signed this book twice. Whelan signed this book ONLY as a presentation copy.

I have a couple of questions for Sam(antha) Sisler at HA regarding provenance but only insomuch as whether this was Dick Fawcett’s copy or Harold Kinney’s copy. I'm just waiting for her reply. Asking for the sales copy…I don’t think so. An auction house is bonded so both the buyer and seller are covered in the case of any error or mistake. Good luck bidding – but not too much!

John

[Randall Flagg]

Don't worry about me bidding. Even if I wanted it, I wouldn't bid against you.

[webstar1000]

The auction says it is a presentation copy. According to the collectors site, and the compendium here, there were around 25 presentation copies which were unnumbered and without a slipcase. I wonder if that is what this actually is. The description does say there is a slipcase, but it is not pictured.

Can you submit questions to Heritage for clarification? Perhaps Donald Grant would know? When was the Gunslinger released? The date on the inscription could indicate if it was inscribed before or after release, and if before seems like Grant would know if this inscription was on #1, letter I or a presentation copy. Does anyone know what Dick's last name is?

Our only confirmed Presentation Copy is marked "Special" in the limitation. I think many folks use "Presentation Copy" when they actually mean inscribed, as this one is. What throws me is Whelan's signature way down low below his inscription; either he signed there normally and had space to add an inscription afterwards, or he knew ahead of time who it was going to be for; personally I think that's unlikely for a tip-in page, and besides if he knew then you'd think King would have known as well and inscribed in his signature block as well versus on the title page. Still, you might also think that if this actually was book #1 then the owner might be pre-known since it was going to be presented as something special.

I'll tell ya, if somewhere out there the DTI #1 collection is intact, that certainly questions what this book might be. Is it a Letter I? Maybe, but I doubt it ... you'd think they'd cross bars top and bottom. If it did start off life as a blank limitation copy and somebody wrote in a 1 to increase value, would they also go through the trouble of forging signatures? Or maybe this is the actual #1, and the copy in the complete set (if it still exists) used to a blank and somebody wrote in a 1. It does say that it comes with a slipcase, but you're correct in that no photos shown so is it an original or a replacement? If replacement, I'd then lean towards this being a blank copy that was inscribed and then the owner wrote in a #1. But all of this is just conjecture, what's really needed is provenance for the book; without that I wouldn't drop a penny on it.

Questions may absolutely be submitted to Heritage, they're very good about it actually and will update descriptions or even pull lots when there are questions.

Despite that this post might jeopardize my chances of winning HA’s The Gunslinger lot, I'll write it anyway.

First of all, this book is 100% authentic. There should be no doubt about it. Second, when was the last time there has been any research done to verify the current owner's (when listed) of a particular set? The original owner of set #1 was Harold (Hal) Kinney. He owned The Bookie book and comic store in Hartford, CT for more than 40 years. Unfortunately, Mr. Kinney passed away in late-September 2013. Almost 8 years for the set to be dismantled (perhaps one of the subsequent books was damaged, lost or stolen) ... or kept intact by an heir, or sold intact privately.

FYI -- The Gunslinger was published on 10 June 1982. This inscription was five weeks later. In my opinion, the inscription is to Richard (Dick) Fawcett. Fawcett was a school administrator in CT and the founder (or co-founder) of The August Derleth Society. Derleth was a prolific writer and a friend of H.P. Lovecraft and published many of Lovecraft’s works through his Arkham House publishing company. Now this gets interesting!

If this is #1, how did Hal Kinney get it? Did Fawcett trade with Kinney enabling Kinney to continue to receive book #1 in the Dark Tower series? It’s possible. Both are close to each other geographically and both are in similar book circles. Any trade could have occurred almost any time.

But there are also other clues that might dispute that. Those clues are readily available and could sway your opinion one way or another (number vs letter). King signed this book twice. Whelan signed this book ONLY as a presentation copy.

I have a couple of questions for Sam(antha) Sisler at HA regarding provenance but only insomuch as whether this was Dick Fawcett’s copy or Harold Kinney’s copy. I'm just waiting for her reply. Asking for the sales copy…I don’t think so. An auction house is bonded so both the buyer and seller are covered in the case of any error or mistake. Good luck bidding – but not too much!

John

John, do you believe or lean more towards this truly being #1? I sincerely do not... and would find it incredibly odd for someone to dismantle a set of all #1’s.. now all you say is great and very interesting for sure. I just don’t know. I would never break mine up. Would anyone with matching numbers? I guess money talks. I do wish you the best for your bids. It’s damm cool anyway you look at it!

[George at C-Springs]

John, I would only disagree with your assertion that there should be no doubt about it. I feel just the opposite, that there are too many little questions for it to be an absolute slam dunk. Granted these things may be able to get cleaned up with a little homework and some luck; provenance, sales slip, verification (somehow) of either Mr. Kinney's collection/copy or from Mr. Fawcett's side, something from Grant, good photos of the slipcase just to verify it's the right type, etc. Personally it just doesn't give me a warm fuzzy; I'd love it to, I mean who wouldn't, but it doesn't. But that's just me; if you love it then go for it!

[herbertwest]

The auction says it is a presentation copy. According to the collectors site, and the compendium here, there were around 25 presentation copies which were unnumbered and without a slipcase. I wonder if that is what this actually is. The description does say there is a slipcase, but it is not pictured.

Can you submit questions to Heritage for clarification? Perhaps Donald Grant would know? When was the Gunslinger released? The date on the inscription could indicate if it was inscribed before or after release, and if before seems like Grant would know if this inscription was on #1, letter I or a presentation copy. Does anyone know what Dick's last name is?

Our only confirmed Presentation Copy is marked "Special" in the limitation. I think many folks use "Presentation Copy" when they actually mean inscribed, as this one is. What throws me is Whelan's signature way down low below his inscription; either he signed there normally and had space to add an inscription afterwards, or he knew ahead of time who it was going to be for; personally I think that's unlikely for a tip-in page, and besides if he knew then you'd think King would have known as well and inscribed in his signature block as well versus on the title page. Still, you might also think that if this actually was book #1 then the owner might be pre-known since it was going to be presented as something special.

I'll tell ya, if somewhere out there the DTI #1 collection is intact, that certainly questions what this book might be. Is it a Letter I? Maybe, but I doubt it ... you'd think they'd cross bars top and bottom. If it did start off life as a blank limitation copy and somebody wrote in a 1 to increase value, would they also go through the trouble of forging signatures? Or maybe this is the actual #1, and the copy in the complete set (if it still exists) used to a blank and somebody wrote in a 1. It does say that it comes with a slipcase, but you're correct in that no photos shown so is it an original or a replacement? If replacement, I'd then lean towards this being a blank copy that was inscribed and then the owner wrote in a #1. But all of this is just conjecture, what's really needed is provenance for the book; without that I wouldn't drop a penny on it.

Questions may absolutely be submitted to Heritage, they're very good about it actually and will update descriptions or even pull lots when there are questions.

Despite that this post might jeopardize my chances of winning HA’s The Gunslinger lot, I'll write it anyway.

First of all, this book is 100% authentic. There should be no doubt about it. Second, when was the last time there has been any research done to verify the current owner's (when listed) of a particular set? The original owner of set #1 was Harold (Hal) Kinney. He owned The Bookie book and comic store in Hartford, CT for more than 40 years. Unfortunately, Mr. Kinney passed away in late-September 2013. Almost 8 years for the set to be dismantled (perhaps one of the subsequent books was damaged, lost or stolen) ... or kept intact by an heir, or sold intact privately.

FYI -- The Gunslinger was published on 10 June 1982. This inscription was five weeks later. In my opinion, the inscription is to Richard (Dick) Fawcett. Fawcett was a school administrator in CT and the founder (or co-founder) of The August Derleth Society. Derleth was a prolific writer and a friend of H.P. Lovecraft and published many of Lovecraft’s works through his Arkham House publishing company. Now this gets interesting!

If this is #1, how did Hal Kinney get it? Did Fawcett trade with Kinney enabling Kinney to continue to receive book #1 in the Dark Tower series? It’s possible. Both are close to each other geographically and both are in similar book circles. Any trade could have occurred almost any time.

But there are also other clues that might dispute that. Those clues are readily available and could sway your opinion one way or another (number vs letter). King signed this book twice. Whelan signed this book ONLY as a presentation copy.

I have a couple of questions for Sam(antha) Sisler at HA regarding provenance but only insomuch as whether this was Dick Fawcett’s copy or Harold Kinney’s copy. I'm just waiting for her reply. Asking for the sales copy…I don’t think so. An auction house is bonded so both the buyer and seller are covered in the case of any error or mistake. Good luck bidding – but not too much!

John

John, do you believe or lean more towards this truly being #1? I sincerely do not... and would find it incredibly odd for someone to dismantle a set of all #1’s.. now all you say is great and very interesting for sure. I just don’t know. I would never break mine up. Would anyone with matching numbers? I guess money talks. I do wish you the best for your bids. It’s damm cool anyway you look at it!

What if the previous owners (which could be hair after reading Johnny's post) would know there is a number of that matching number are important to some collectors?

[NECON-Man]

I do not know if this is any help. If my memory is correct copy #1 of the Gunslinger went to Dick Brisson (name maybe spelled wrong) who was a close friend of Don Grant and had received all copy #1 of Don's books. After he passed away I believe Hal Kinney acquired his collection. Kinney and Brission knew each other from the NECON conventions in RI.

[George at C-Springs]

All - Good news, I heard back from Heritage today and they let me know that the consignor is Hal Kinney's daughter! I'd say that greatly increases the odds that this is indeed #1, as we show Hal being owner of the Complete Set #DTI - DTVII in the Master List and that has been corroborated above. The consignor has been asked to search her father's library for the remaining books in the set; that may possibly result in this copy being withdrawn from the auction until she can verify one way or the other (don't break up the set!); as of this afternoon it remains. But seriously, how cool would it be to see the ENTIRE #1 set come across the auction block? What do you think, $30K - $50K?

[webstar1000]

All - Good news, I heard back from Heritage today and they let me know that the consignor is Hal Kinney's daughter! I'd say that greatly increases the odds that this is indeed #1, as we show Hal being owner of the Complete Set #DTI - DTVII in the Master List and that has been corroborated above. The consignor has been asked to search her father's library for the remaining books in the set; that may possibly result in this copy being withdrawn from the auction until she can verify one way or the other (don't break up the set!); as of this afternoon it remains. But seriously, how cool would it be to see the ENTIRE #1 set come across the auction block? What do you think, $30K - $50K?

If anyone pays $50k they are insane. Now... $25k I can see AND a push would be $30k for me... I never got my head around why anyone would pay more for 1 or A though. Maybe when it matters like 217 or 19. I would pay far more for a 19 set of DT books than 1 that’s for sure. Wouldn’t we all?

[Curly]

I would not pay a premium for a 19 set because that number does not exist until late on in the original S/L series.

[webstar1000]

I would not pay a premium for a 19 set because that number does not exist until late on in the original S/L series.

? IT is literlly a HUGE part of the DT series.. what do you mean?

[bdwyer19]

I don’t think I would pay a premium either - for any number in any S/L. Sure, it may appear within the story, but it’s still just a number in a limitation and doesn’t mean anything.

[amd013]

I wonder if any of the other books in the series also have an inscription to Dick. If not, then don't think the premium should be too high. 20-25K at the most. But it only takes 2 (rich) people to really want it to see it go for more.

[webstar1000]

I wonder if any of the other books in the series also have an inscription to Dick. If not, then don't think the premium should be too high. 20-25K at the most. But it only takes 2 (rich) people to really want it to see it go for more.

I sold three sets this year. Set one was $18500, Second was $21000 and the last set was $23500 or $24000 (this had remarques but I cannot remember exact amount). I would say set #19 would be min $25K. I would pay that if given the chance at it.

[amd013]

I wonder if any of the other books in the series also have an inscription to Dick. If not, then don't think the premium should be too high. 20-25K at the most. But it only takes 2 (rich) people to really want it to see it go for more.

I sold three sets this year. Set one was $18500, Second was $21000 and the last set was $23500 or $24000 (this had remarques but I cannot remember exact amount). I would say set #19 would be min $25K. I would pay that if given the chance at it.

Wow, they have really spiked, 3 years ago they were going for 11-15K.

[Ari_Racing]

I'd not pay an extra dollar depending on the number, not even 19 which was introduced as a related number almost 30 years after Stephen King started writing the saga. I find way more interesting rare things such as Bob Jackson's copy where Stephen King signed as "Roland of Gilead". That gives a premium value in my opinion.

[George at C-Springs]

I'll stick by my guns; if she does come forth with the entire DTI - DTVII S/L #1 set, which I hope she does, it'll go for $30K - $50K at auction. If I had 50K of disposable income I wouldn't even hesitate, and all you need are two collectors with that mindset.

[Rahfa]

In honor of Page 71 of this thread, I have #71 of many books - but not a complete DT set, and am missing DT II (I have an author's copy). I think it's 18 books with the same number.

I saw some folks have 171s, some 751s, and a 170...but no other 71s!

At some point, mine are going up for sale...so keep a sharp eye.

[OneFathom]

I'd not pay an extra dollar depending on the number, not even 19 which was introduced as a related number almost 30 years after Stephen King started writing the saga. I find way more interesting rare things such as Bob Jackson's copy where Stephen King signed as "Roland of Gilead". That gives a premium value in my opinion.

Wow! Now that is cool.

[herbertwest]

I'd not pay an extra dollar depending on the number, not even 19 which was introduced as a related number almost 30 years after Stephen King started writing the saga. I find way more interesting rare things such as Bob Jackson's copy where Stephen King signed as "Roland of Gilead". That gives a premium value in my opinion.

Among the numerous treasures that Bob has, is a french hardcover copy of Creepshow. Signed. That he signed both Stephen King and Etienne Roi (kind of the french translation of his name). Loving it!

[George at C-Springs]

Huge news!

"Dear George,

I hope you are well.

We’ve contacted the consignor (Harold’s daughter), and she has found the rest of the #1 Dark Tower set. We’ve made arrangements for her to send it in to us for our December sale. Therefore, we will pull Gunslinger from the June sale and offer the entire #1 set in December. We really appreciate your help and information in this matter."

As Harold passed away in 2013, I followed up with a recommendation that she also look for LSOE (2009) and TWTTK (2012); if he was still collecting, I have little doubt he would have reached out to Donald Grant to match his set.

I'm sincerely sorry if this ruined anyone's plans to bid on the DTI, but the plus side is it's brought the entire set DTI - DTVII (at least) to light and guarantees for now that it won't be broken up mistakenly!

I'm thinking we all get together, buy shares, and purchase the set as a group. Seriously, not kidding; 100 people at $300 apiece would get us a $30K bid; $500 apiece a $50K bid, which we're thinking is going to be the bidding window. Think about it. This would guarantee the set stays together with the people who appreciate it most and not disappear forever to Saudi Arabia or Japan somewhere. We'd have 6 months to discuss and work out the details.

Thoughts?

[Randall Flagg]

Great idea. I'll hold the books for safekeeping.

[George at C-Springs]

And a follow-up from Heritage already:

"I believe she does have the Little Sisters and Wind Through the Keyhole, as well as the two small paperback pamphlets issued later; they all should be in the lot, I believe.

Many thanks for your help. Feel free to share this information with others in your organization."