Dark Tower Twins, Twinners & Reincarnations (Spoilers all around!!!)

[jayson]

Makes you wonder what other "touch" Alain might have been gifted with.

[MonteGss]

Roland has no Twinners, he is special. Jack has no Twinners, he is special. Walter has many and can "flip" to them at will. Jack is also similar to Walter because Jack can "flip" to different levels of the tower. The difference is that Jack has no Twinner to flip opposite him. Talisman and Black House are my favorite DT connectors because of "flipping" and Twinners.

[Childe 007]

Roland has no Twinners, he is special. Jack has no Twinners, he is special. Walter has many and can "flip" to them at will. Jack is also similar to Walter because Jack can "flip" to different levels of the tower. The difference is that Jack has no Twinner to flip opposite him. Talisman and Black House are my favorite DT connectors because of "flipping" and Twinners.

Hmm - Ok, goes to the same heart of these wizards being Legion - and the thing about Jack - he is singular as seen in The Talisman:

For a moment all partitioned reality seemed to break down; he did not flip but seemed to fall through worlds - like a man crashing through the rotted floors of an ancient wooden tower. He might just go falling through a chain of realities forever. He was single natured - he had a place in all of the worlds - but he did not exist simultaneously in all of them - that was the difference. He was flickering through all of them, only for a millisecond and leaving a sound like a hand clap or a sonic boom behind as the air closed around the space he had been occupying.

But I believe that when we left him at the end of Black House he could still just flip to the one "other" reality - The Territories - where Walter/ Marten/ Flagg can visit them all (maybe except The Territories?)

And the idea of Walter being able to willingly flip to his alter ego's - regardless of where they may be would explain all of those personality differences...

Very nice MOnteGss!

[MonteGss]

Roland has no Twinners, he is special. Jack has no Twinners, he is special. Walter has many and can "flip" to them at will. Jack is also similar to Walter because Jack can "flip" to different levels of the tower. The difference is that Jack has no Twinner to flip opposite him. Talisman and Black House are my favorite DT connectors because of "flipping" and Twinners.

He was single natured - he had a place in all of the worlds - but he did not exist simultaneously in all of them - that was the difference. He was flickering through all of them, only for a millisecond and leaving a sound like a hand clap or a sonic boom behind as the air closed around the space he had been occupying.

But I believe that when we left him at the end of Black House he could still just flip to the one "other" reality - The Territories -

This is true but doesn't change my argument. He can "flip" when he wants and we don't know that it is only to The Territories.

where Walter/ Marten/ Flagg can visit them all (maybe except The Territories?)

I think he can go where ever he has a Twinner. He is bound to Twinners.

And the idea of Walter being able to willingly flip to his alter ego's - regardless of where they may be would explain all of those personality differences...

You say true and I say thankya. The Jack Sawyer stories are, imo, the most important connector books.

[Childe 007]

He was single natured - he had a place in all of the worlds - but he did not exist simultaneously in all of them - that was the difference. He was flickering through all of them, only for a millisecond and leaving a sound like a hand clap or a sonic boom behind as the air closed around the space he had been occupying.

But I believe that when we left him at the end of Black House he could still just flip to the one "other" reality - The Territories - [/QUOTE]
This is true but doesn't change my argument. He can "flip" when he wants and we don't know that it is only to The Territories.

I think that the quote I included shows that he not only CAN - but did. What I meant with the Black House reference is that he - at the time we left him - CHOSE not to.

where Walter/ Marten/ Flagg can visit them all (maybe except The Territories?)

I think he can go where ever he has a Twinner. He is bound to Twinners.

And I like this! But if he has a twinner in the Territories we haven't seen him yet (unless it was Reuel - who was "dim" according to the Wolfs.) And his twinners can also move between the worlds. The trick with that is that they can't be in the same world/ reality at the same moment. So while Walter may move into Flagg and Flagg may move into Marten - Marten must move to another world/ reality/ level of the Tower.

And the idea of Walter being able to willingly flip to his alter ego's - regardless of where they may be would explain all of those personality differences...

You say true and I say thankya. The Jack Sawyer stories are, imo, the most important connector books.[/QUOTE]

Along with The Stand - I'd agree!

[MonteGss]

And I like this! But if he has a twinner in the Territories we haven't seen him yet (unless it was Reuel - who was "dim" according to the Wolfs.) And his twinners can also move between the worlds. The trick with that is that they can't be in the same world/ reality at the same moment. So while Walter may move into Flagg and Flagg may move into Marten - Marten must move to another world/ reality/ level of the Tower.

Yes!!! This is just like what happens to the Twinners in The Talisman and applies to Flagg (etc) the same way.
Walt, Flagg, Marten, etc are the "same person" but they are not; they are twinners.

The Jack Sawyer stories are, imo, the most important connector books.[/B]

Along with The Stand - I'd agree!

I think The Stand is a good story and does connect to the Tower series but I believe the Jack stories offer us a greater understanding of the Tower and the DT saga. The Stand connections weren't, at least to me, all that important.

[Wuducynn]

I think The Stand is a good story and does connect to the Tower series but I believe the Jack stories offer us a greater understanding of the Tower and the DT saga. The Stand connections weren't, at least to me, all that important.

I agree in regards to Black House but the Talisman doesn't seem to have an awful lot of direct Dark Tower connections.

[MonteGss]

I think The Stand is a good story and does connect to the Tower series but I believe the Jack stories offer us a greater understanding of the Tower and the DT saga. The Stand connections weren't, at least to me, all that important.

I agree in regards to Black House but the Talisman doesn't seem to have an awful lot of direct Dark Tower connections.

I am referring to the importance of the Twinner concept and of "flipping." This is from The Talisman.

[Wuducynn]

I don't care what you were referring to you stupid, worthless piece of bumbler shit. Take your copy of the Talisman (hardcover preferred) and shove it up your ass and then hop around squeeling in agony for awhile, take pictures and post them all over the internet.

[Wuducynn]

Please.

[Storyslinger]

He's got ya there, he did ask nicely

[MonteGss]

Alas...I only have the paperback edition.

[Wuducynn]

That will work too.

[Wuducynn]

Okay, bringing the thread back on topic for a moment..(sorry) if Monte shoved a hard or soft cover version of the Talisman up his ass and danced around squeeling in this world, does that mean his twinners would be doing the same in all the other worlds?

[Storyslinger]

He would be using a hot branding iron, because thats how they write, on animal skins

[MonteGss]

No, it doesn't. Life paths are similar but they aren't copies of one another. Their actions aren't duplicated.

[jayson]

No, it doesn't. Life paths are similar but they aren't copies of one another. Their actions aren't duplicated.

They may feel some other trauma in the same physiological region.

[Wuducynn]

No, it doesn't. Life paths are similar but they aren't copies of one another. Their actions aren't duplicated.

Yeah, thats what I thought. Now I wonder if Walter really has twinners so much or just different parts of one being.

[MonteGss]

A man who can split apart? Hmmm. Interesting thought.

[Wuducynn]

More like one being with its facets actual individual entities..thats what I believe Walter had become over his thousand plus years of sorcery.

[jayson]

More like one being with its facets actual individual entities..thats what I believe Walter had become over his thousand plus years of sorcery.

So he was his own ka-tet, one from many? All puns aside, I like your theory on Walter's nature.

[Storyslinger]

Yes, I can see the reasoning behind this. MAkes sence to me

[MonteGss]

More like one being with its facets actual individual entities..thats what I believe Walter had become over his thousand plus years of sorcery.

Yes, with your interpretation, I can see why you'd think The Talisman isn't such an integral book in the series. I still believe the concept of Twinners is closer to the truth of things but the idea of such a powerful being as you describe is pretty cool too.

[Darkthoughts]

So CK, kind of like Voldemort with his horcruxes?

[Jean]

Okay, bringing the thread back on topic for a moment..(sorry) if Monte shoved a hard or soft cover version of the Talisman up his ass and danced around squeeling in this world, does that mean his twinners would be doing the same in all the other worlds?

No, it doesn't. Life paths are similar but they aren't copies of one another. Their actions aren't duplicated.

Rereading Black House, I just got to the moment where Jack notices scar on Sophie's hand, identical to the one on Judy's hand, and thinks that, even if they were caused by different events, he is sure it happened at the same moment.