Dark Tower Twins, Twinners & Reincarnations (Spoilers all around!!!)

[Darkthoughts]

Marten/ Walter/ Flagg is a bit trickier because they were seemingly merged by King into one character in The Dark Tower. I have said before - though - that I think it entirely plausible they began as seperate entities.

Let's look for a moment at the meaning of ka-tet: One from Many. That can also apply to demons - ie Legion. One demon composed of many. And this is a name that is used in connection with just about all of King's evil magicians

.

It is possible (and I say even plausible) that as each of the wizards sent against Roland were defeated - their physical and mystical being was obsorbed by the next. So Marten is consumed/ possessed by Walter who is in turn consumed by Flagg. The ka's (or spirits) of each remaining in the single host body - Legion.

Walter Paddick is actually the original form of Marten/Flagg (as we learn in The Dark Tower). He was born as a human to a miller in Delain. However, after running away from home at 13 he uses and abuses magic until he achieves his almost immortal, shape shifting status.

Marten Broadcloak, Walter O'Dim, Richard Fannin, Rudin Filaro, Randall Flagg and the Walkin' Dude are all aliases of Walter's. He can change his face aswell as his name, and can also travel through other worlds and time. He is often defeated, but never physically killed until he meets Mordred, so rather than being absorbed by a new entity, he simply shapeshifts and moves on.

(Reference: The Dark Tower Complete Concordance.)

[Jean]

I was inclined to think the same. Walter must be one of those axis figures who can't have Twinners.

[Wuducynn]

Or is his own.

[Wuducynn]

By the way Lisa, I think you're spot on.

[Darkthoughts]

Wow...thanks honey Now, buy me a drink bitch!

[Wuducynn]

How about some sewer mud?

[Darkthoughts]

Why thank you Mrs Kersh, that would do nicely

[Wuducynn]

I'll gladly buy you a drink...Dasani? Poland Spring? Aquafina?

[Wuducynn]

For me it seems that when Walter uses one of his aliases it is in some cases more than a meer alias but a whole personality change, he becomes that person...that is why he is Legion, he is a demon with MPD.

[Darkthoughts]

Spot on yourself!

Er, aren't those all types of bottled water? You know it's beer for me or you don't even get to first base

[Wuducynn]

Spot on yourself!

*bows*

Er, aren't those all types of bottled water? You know it's beer for me or you don't even get to first base

Its funny that you would have to ask if they're brands of bottled water..its obvious you're so unfamiliar with anything non-alcoholic that you would have to question it.

[Darkthoughts]

And yet, sadly that's true.

[Wuducynn]

"Wait, those lack alcohol don't they??" *faints*

[MonteGss]

Walter must be one of those axis figures who can't have Twinners.

Or is his own.

For me it seems that when Walter uses one of his aliases it is in some cases more than a meer alias but a whole personality change, he becomes that person...that is why he is Legion, he is a demon with MPD.

I really like the line of thinking from these quotes. I believe Walter is special, I just see him having the ability to consume/possess his personalities, which I believe are his Twinners. Does that make sense?

[Darkthoughts]

Yes, it is very much as if he completely becomes someone else. Not like a conman assuming a role, but more - as CK says - asserting a whole new personality as someone with a MPD would do.

I agree, he really was quite a unique character.

[Jean]

I don't know where I took this phrase - axis figure - probably came to me from the Tower, and, very likely, from the level deceitful dreams come from - but the more I think of it, the more I [probably erroneously] like it. Roland is an axis figure, too. You can't imagine him having twinners, can you? even though Sai King hinted they looked like twins, they weren't.

(I'm one step away from saying that in some respect Walter came the closest to be Roland's twinner... but that's what comes from talking first, and thinking next. I mean, I don't really think I think so. But they are both unique, both stand alone, and, you know, the first (= last) line of the saga...)

[MonteGss]

I see Roland and Jack as similar figures, with no twinners. I don't see Walter that way.

[Darkthoughts]

Yes, there are some similarities between Jack and Roland. Although Jack was more ready to make friends than Roland (even if he didn't always fully open up to them).

[Jean]

that axis thing that keeps haunting me, it's not only about twinners. It's about the replicas of people in various versions of the same worlds. We know there are many Jakes and Eddies, but, I suspect, not Rolands or Walters. I am not sure about Jack. I'm re-reading Black House now, and may be more positive when I have finished. So far nothing prevents me from thinking there must be other Jacks in other Wisconsins.

[MonteGss]

Multiple Wisconsins....*shudders*

Except for the Packers, of course.

[jayson]

Multiple Wisconsins....*shudders*
)

You think in some of those Wisconsins the Brewers still play in the American League?

As for the actual topic, I see Jack as similar in nature to Roland or Walter in being without twinners. I see Jack's "flipping" ability as something very close to Roland's drawing, only Jack is drawing himself. On the other hand, it's possible that there are multiple Jack's but that perhaps there is a "Keystone Jack" who is able to be aware of the others? Roland I still believe to be a singular entity.

[Steve]

Cuthbert handles the things such a different way. He respects and loves Roland such a different way. He didn't have a black monkey. And so on and so on...



Letti, I am quite worried here.

[Wuducynn]

Yes, he loved him in that "special" way that some boys have.

[jayson]

Yes, he loved him in that "special" way that some boys have.

That'd explain why Bert resented Susan.

[Wuducynn]

Right! There was more going on there than just concern over the mission it was obvious.