The Walking Dead *TV Spoilers!*

[Mattrick]

Walking Dead Season 11 is delayed and Fear The Walking Dead is stopping filming.

[Mattrick]

Wow, what a great episode that was. I'm glad we finally got that big comic moment, and actually improved upon and built up better, and they didn't remix it to be changed.

[webstar1000]

Wow, what a great episode that was. I'm glad we finally got that big comic moment, and actually improved upon and built up better, and they didn't remix it to be changed.

Can you do the part where you show us the piece in the comics that correlates to it? I really enjoy that to be honest with you


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[Mattrick]

Yeah, I was planning on it. I'll do it in a bit in spoiler tags.

[Mattrick]

Here it is from the comics.

Spoiler:

[webstar1000]

Here it is from the comics.

Spoiler:

WOW. That is cool... just flipped with Carol... love it. THANKS

[Mattrick]

Yeah the timeline of events is quite remixed too.

Spoiler:

The reasons why Hilltop is attacked and burned down the comics is because Beta find's Alpha's headless body and goes nuts for revenge. But in the TV show that was ordered by Alpha and then she was killed after. So instead of Alpha's death kicking off the war, it takes place in the middle.

[Mattrick]

Bad news for those of us still watching the show. The Walking Dead Season 10 finale is delayed. While the episode was filmed months ago, they were not able to complete post-production before social distancing and such made it impossible for them to finish. So this current season will conclude with episode 15 in two weeks, and then the finale will air whenever they're able to complete it. So it could air in 4 weeks. It could air in 8 weeks. It could air in 12 weeks. We just don't know.

[webstar1000]

Sad to see Michonne go. I loved her episode and how they made it look like she choose a different path. Finding Ricks stuff... brilliant. We will see her again.


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[Still Servant]

It annoyed me. I hate it when they do artsy episodes.

[Mattrick]

What really worked for me was the alternate timeline stuff. It was a little silly how they did it, but I thought it was cool seeing what Michonne could have been. It kind of ties into what Judith told Gamma in the previous episode, about how different Gamma would be if she's met her people instead of meeting Alpha. Although I do kind of wish we saw Michonne actually Lucille someone new. Mainly, I loved the speech she gave after Negan gave her Lucille, where the show pretty much acknowledged for the first time that what they did at the satellite outpost way back in season 6, killing the Saviors in their sleep, executing them all for personal gain, was an evil, evil act. Basically, what Rick and Co did to The Saviors that night was exactly what The Wolves did to Alexandria that same season.

The fundamental flaw to me in Season 7/8 have always been that The Saviors were the good guys. They were the ones who were repeatedly killed and executed by a group of people and all the while Negan is entirely reasonable about it. And none of the "heroes" in season 7 or 8 had clear motivations...they either all wanted the same thing (Negan Dead, Saviors Destroyed) or were just irrationally angry about the mess which is just the consequences of their own choices. I thought Season 3 was quite a mess, but looking back...at least the characters in that season had various motivations and some interesting conflicts and explored some moral grey area.

[webstar1000]

What really worked for me was the alternate timeline stuff. It was a little silly how they did it, but I thought it was cool seeing what Michonne could have been. It kind of ties into what Judith told Gamma in the previous episode, about how different Gamma would be if she's met her people instead of meeting Alpha. Although I do kind of wish we saw Michonne actually Lucille someone new. Mainly, I loved the speech she gave after Negan gave her Lucille, where the show pretty much acknowledged for the first time that what they did at the satellite outpost way back in season 6, killing the Saviors in their sleep, executing them all for personal gain, was an evil, evil act. Basically, what Rick and Co did to The Saviors that night was exactly what The Wolves did to Alexandria that same season.

The fundamental flaw to me in Season 7/8 have always been that The Saviors were the good guys. They were the ones who were repeatedly killed and executed by a group of people and all the while Negan is entirely reasonable about it. And none of the "heroes" in season 7 or 8 had clear motivations...they either all wanted the same thing (Negan Dead, Saviors Destroyed) or were just irrationally angry about the mess which is just the consequences of their own choices. I thought Season 3 was quite a mess, but looking back...at least the characters in that season had various motivations and some interesting conflicts and explored some moral grey area.

Any thought what we were seeing in the squares of people being moved along that she was joining at the end?

[Mattrick]

What really worked for me was the alternate timeline stuff. It was a little silly how they did it, but I thought it was cool seeing what Michonne could have been. It kind of ties into what Judith told Gamma in the previous episode, about how different Gamma would be if she's met her people instead of meeting Alpha. Although I do kind of wish we saw Michonne actually Lucille someone new. Mainly, I loved the speech she gave after Negan gave her Lucille, where the show pretty much acknowledged for the first time that what they did at the satellite outpost way back in season 6, killing the Saviors in their sleep, executing them all for personal gain, was an evil, evil act. Basically, what Rick and Co did to The Saviors that night was exactly what The Wolves did to Alexandria that same season.

The fundamental flaw to me in Season 7/8 have always been that The Saviors were the good guys. They were the ones who were repeatedly killed and executed by a group of people and all the while Negan is entirely reasonable about it. And none of the "heroes" in season 7 or 8 had clear motivations...they either all wanted the same thing (Negan Dead, Saviors Destroyed) or were just irrationally angry about the mess which is just the consequences of their own choices. I thought Season 3 was quite a mess, but looking back...at least the characters in that season had various motivations and some interesting conflicts and explored some moral grey area.

Any thought what we were seeing in the squares of people being moved along that she was joining at the end?

Some people migrating. It'll either explored in the movies, there's a plan for a short Michonne miniseries, or we'll never find out.

[Mattrick]

I really fucking loved this last episode. I know some people complained about the Carol vs. Alpha dialogue in her head, but there were two reasons I liked it: got to see more of Samantha Morton, plus it called back to Chupacabra where Daryl was seeing Merle, which was one of the best episode of Season 2, and the episode even calls back Sophia's death alone in the woods. I also liked that they cut the whole Carol going off on her own to figure things out down to a single episode because it shows that she's grown...her running from things goes all the way back to her marriage to Ed as she used to run to that Shelter in Atlanta before ultimately going back. But she doesn't need to run now and there's nothing awful she's being drawn back to.

The Negan and Daryl stuff was great. I am looking forward to a future where Negan and Daryl slowly become friends, bit by bit, because they could have a great dynamic like that. Negan in general is just such a dynamic character in his own right. I remember people in here saying they couldn't stand Negan during Season 7 and I said he's great, well, this arc of his is a big reason why I said he was so great, and the show is doing it even better than in the comics, which naturally don't get the same amount of time to devote to character development or tiny moments. When you think of Negan's debut and as the episodes roll on, he's just one big ol onion you're constantly peeling back the layers of and his redemptive arc is probably the highlight of the entire comic because in the comics he's so irredeemable with how he debuts.

Finally, The Beta stuff was amazing. The reveal of who his identity is handled so much better than in the comics. It's pretty underwhelming in the comics...a cool concept that was just executed really poorly because it was just kind tacked on, but I can't discuss that now because spoilers. They've hinted strongly at Beta being a musician on the show this season, from him telling Alpha not to sing in the flashback episode and him talking about the song of the dead, not to mention the whisperer who sees his face and says his voice sounded familiar. But even going beyond that they've hinted at it. In Fear Season 5 someone (I can't remember who because Season 5 was forgetable) dropped some records and this was one of the records




Who is clearly Beta. Though they didn't have a name for him yet obviously though this album cover in this newest episode is mostly the same kind of look.






There is also a great foreshadowing from the start of the season where Magna is listening to records in Barrington House, and she's listening to Beta (he's actually singing a song written by Emily Kenney aka Beth)


They've done a good job of make Beta's past part of the world in a way that feels authentic as opposed to be tacked on. And while it does mitigate the reveal, it also works so much better this way. I loved how he carried around Alpha's head and listened to it. Side note, the effects of Alpha's head were fucking fantastic. I loved the way he used his own music to gather up a new horde and the way he took off the part of the mask that Gamma ripped off and replaced it with Alpha's skin, which is just an absolutely cool visual and really let's Alpha live on through him. Ryan Hurst has killed it as Beta and this episode was his best work so far.

Lastly, the Eugene going on a mission stuff. This mission is what sets up the final arc of the comics, and since the comics just ended nearly a year ago, it's just really weird to see the show starting up what was the endgame for the comics. The comics too blended various stories and while I liked the approach in the comics, it was also kind of a mess in certain respects. The show has one benefit in that the finale to the Saviors conflict happened in Season 9 and The Saviors are no more in the show, instead of tensions brewing throughout the entire Whisperer story and kind of coming to a head along with other conflicts and this Eugene mission story starting. They didn't outright say it in the show, but in the comics the city they're in is Pittsburgh and it's utterly deserted. I loved the slow intro to the new character (won't reveal her name) with her staging all those zombies up. It was one of the funniest things the show has ever done and the show is rarely funny so the comedy doesn't always land since the writers aren't skilled at it. It was deftly pulled off. I'm curious how the show will handle this new character. She was very contentious in the comics with many people disliking her (she grew on me pretty fast, others not so much), but as I said, this was the start of the endgame for the comics. She debuted in issue 171 and the comics ended in 193 so she was only in the comics for a very short time and quite a few new characters come into the comics after her. I am hoping the show will get to do more with her and handle her better than the comics did. Her character just didn't translate on the page like I'm hoping she will live action.

Sigh, only one episode left until we get the finale whenever we get it.

[Lookwhoitis]

Just caught up with the Walking Dead and man it seems this show has really lost it's edge. It seems like a chore to watch it, but I'm very vested in the story and want to see how it ends.

I doubt I am going to watch the 2nd spinoff.

[Brian861]

I just binged watched season 10 in an entire sitting last night into early morning. One of the best seasons ever IMO! I like Alpha much better now that she's dead and Negan has really grown on me. Alpha seemed much more likable, human in the comic panels that you showed. I didn't care for how the actress played her on screen. Was Beta a musician in the comics as well?

[Mattrick]

I just binged watched season 10 in an entire sitting last night into early morning. One of the best seasons ever IMO! I like Alpha much better now that she's dead and Negan has really grown on me. Alpha seemed much more likable, human in the comic panels that you showed. I didn't care for how the actress played her on screen. Was Beta a musician in the comics as well?

Seasons 9 and 10 are the best the show has been IMO. It really showed how much the writers had gotten away from letting their characters drive the story. They definitely made Alpha more over the top in the TV show, but then again Beta is more over the top in the TV show too...both characters get way more screentime than they did in the comics. For reference, Beta and Alpha, I believe, are both in the comics for the same stretch of issues...16 or something like that, but Beta isn't introduced until Negan shows up at the camp, and Alpha is dead the next issue. The relationship between Alpha and Beta is far more explored in the TV show too, as if the relationship between Lydia and Alpha.

One thing that isn't explored in the TV show is how in the comics the Whisperers rape each other all the time because they're like animals. Alpha teaches that if you can't defend yourself, then you get raped, basically. Lydia had been raped multiple times as a young girl in the comics, which makes the comic Alpha kind of worse. But they both share the same weakness, Lydia. That weakness is a lot more pronounced in the TV show so they actually made Alpha more human in the TV show, but less likeable because she's more sneaky and manipulative in the show than merely being a fierce, no-nonsense leader with a weird philosophy like in the comics. I personally loved Samantha Morton's work. It's such a nuanced performanced in the way she uses her body, especially when she's got the mask on. Very unsettling.



In the comics it is revealed that Beta used to be a star basketball player (why he was so tall) that was really popular and did a bunch of commercials and endorsements, so I guess he was like a Shaq or similar equivalent in the world of the comics. I'm not exactly sure Beta's motivation for always keeping the mask in the TV show since they haven't really said it, but in the comics it's implied that he always worse his mask and never showed his face out of shame, basically, that he didn't want anyone to know that beloved celebrity and brought joy to so many people had become what he became. It was a great idea with just a dreadful execution.



And Negan definitely grows on people. That's why as a comics reader I was enjoying people hating him so much in Season 7 because the joy of Negan in the comics his his redemption arc and how he wins basically everyone over. He's an extremely layered character...in the TV shows he's more overtly a good guy, I'd say, then in the comics where he didn't have that relationship with Judith and Lydia to warm him up for us. The scene that really humanizing Negan in the comics, when Maggie confronts him and he asks her to kill him, happened before The Whisperer arc in the show, but after The Whisperers in the comics. How the TV show has handled Negan has been a triumph. I think many of the people who hated him because you're meant to hate him have come around on him, and I think people who hated him because of how he is have come around on him. If you watch Seasons 7-10 again, Negan gets just a little bit more layered with each episode. They've handled him wonderfully.

[webstar1000]

The best the show has been... is the first 2 seasons. Maybe the 3rd... this is good but not that good and it’s quickly falling agian. Rick is a real loss to the show and now Michonne. It will be felt more and more.


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[Mattrick]

Yeah, Rick and Michonne are a big loss, but we still have Daryl who is great again, and Carol who is the best character. Negan is great. Judith has been great. Maggie is coming back. I want to see them do more with Aaron. I haven't noticed Rick being gone all that much personally, and Michonne has been in a limited role for the past two years while she was filming Marvel stuff anyways. Lots of new characters coming next season too.

Up until now, I'd say Seasons 4/5 were the high point of the show. Especially that chunk from Governor showing up at the prison until they arrive in Alexandria...great stuff.

[Brian861]

Negan annoyed me because he'd just never shut up. Now, I like his wit and the way he looks at things. I haven't really noticed Rick being gone all that much either and didn't realize the actress that plays Michonne was shooting Marvel movies, as I'm not really into the whole superhero thing.

I'll disagree with Kris (we can't agree on anything ) and say I feel the show is moving in the right direction as long as they don't let it get a way from them again. I still really enjoy FTWD even though a lot of people hate on it also.

[Mattrick]

I think so long as Angela Kang is running the show (she was the best writer the show had since she joined in Season 2) i think the series will continue to produce quality content.

I want to like FTWD. I really enjoyed the first season, parts of the second, and I thought Season 3 was as good as The Walking Dead's best material. But Season 4 really went downhill for me in the second half, and Season 5 was just a trainwreck. I feel comfortable saying it is the worst season of anything Walking Dead. I wrote a big long piece about Season Five of FTWD I don't think anyone read haha.

https://matthewblivingston.wixsite.c.../ftwd-season-5

I can only hope that with the whole Larger Universe they're setting up with The World Beyond and Rick's movies and throughout TWD and FTWD that we will see FTWD have more direction and purpose than in Season Five. There was basically no purpose to Season 5. It was 16 episodes of filler to get them under Virginia's thumb and split everyone up for the 18th time in the series' five seasons. The second half was a slight improvement because the first half was just pretty damn bad.

[Brian861]

Getting back to Negan and The Whispers being rapists; I'd have to go back but I thought I heard Negan reference this in the show. And maybe Alpha was a better person in the show then the comics after all. Although, if Negan did make a reference to the rapes, all that stuff could be assumed to being off camera.

And I'm still a FTWD fan after reading all that

[Mattrick]

I know in the comics that's a big scene with Negan at the Whisperer camp when he first arrives. He sees two guys attack a woman and he attacks them, and then Alpha basically tells him off.

[Brian861]

The Walking Dead Humble Bundle

[mae]