Polanski is one of my new favorites. I got Rosemary's Baby and Chinatown in from Netflix a few months back and they captivated me. The Pianist and The Ghost Writer are both very finely crafted films also.
And i can't help but think that there is a great biopic to be made of Roman Polanski.
as far as I know, an attempt at this was made last year - I saw something like a trailer. First, the guy who directed it and for some reasons unknown to me chose to play the main part should have lost at least forty pounds and grown a nose; second, it was all the same tired shit taken mostly from the media I mentioned in my posts above.
About 20 years ago Polanski said in the French program Apostrophes (I transcribe and will try to translate, hoping to be able to convey the sarcasm):
Il'y a tant de choses ecrite sur moi sans ma collaboration, meme des sois-disant biographies, ce qu'on appelle en Anglais "Unauthorized Biography", par des gens qui ne me connaissaient pas <...> ils ne se sont pas genes, ils ont reinvente ma vie, avec pas seulement les evenements mais les personnages, allant jusqu'a les noms qui'ils ont donnes <...> Je me suis dit un moment que si vraiment y a un tel interet, si les gens veulent savoir tellement qu'il est possible de publier des conneries pareilles et que les gens les achetent, j'ai pense que la seule chose a faire est d'ecrire une espece de - de - d'almanach, si vous voulez, pour leur donner des instructions s'ils veulent continuer d'ecrire sur moi <...> Mais je me suis rendu compte que finallement ca sert a rien
"There's a lot of things people who have never known me write about me without my collaboration, even so-called biographies, what is in English called "Unauthorized Biography" <...> They don't hesitate to reinvent my life, not only the events but also the personages, going as far as to give them names <...> I told myself once that if there's really such a big interest, if people want to know to such extent that it is possible to publish such bullshit, I thought the only thing left to do was to write a kind of a - an almanac, to give them instructions if they want to go on writing about me. <...> But I realized it would be no use."
well, what that man whose name I forgot tried to make reminded me of the mentioned Unauthorized biographies, in dire need of the almanac.
Seymour - the four films you mentioned are great, in bears' opinion, but the most easily digestible of all Polanski; I would recommend Repulsion and Cul-de-Sac (and all the rest of them, of course...). And definitely The Tenant, which at the moment is my favorite movie ever.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sooo, we're going to give this pedophile a free pass because he makes good movies? Did everyone forget he raped a 13 year old girl?
Read up on that please before you glorify that rapist some more. It does NOT matter that it happened a long time ago, that doesn't make the crime go away. His case was never closed and I'm glad he got arrested. Our Swiss friends didn't want to send him back to the States even though of the roughly 200 extradiction requests they deny only 5%. Mr. Polanski somehow ended up being in the 5% and now he's a free man again.
Luckily, I've been "reading up on that" the whole summer; actually, I was doing nothing but - because I needed to be able to form my own opinion and to have a clear picture, not the one that is imposed upon me. Instead of reading the sick fantasies of American media, I read court transcripts, medical reports, witnesses reports and other documents of the case - not as readily available as the American media hysterics, true, but still quite accessible.
If someone want to proceed along those lines, I am ready to answer all of your questions, although it's pathetic to see how the only thing most people seem to be interested in is that 1977 incident.
Unfortunately, everything in this case depends on words. The first is "girl" - well, her medical report describes her as "adult female", and it is not a dark mystery that she had had previous sexual experience (if someone doubts, she testified to this herself); here's her picture that I spoiler-tag because I don't really want to see her all the time:
Spoiler:
- and if she looks a day younger than 18, please kill me now. There also are testimonies of other people who, judging by her looks and behavior, thought her "any age between 18 and 25" (I quote Angelica Huston, one of the witnesses).
I hope you see that the "pedophile" label the mob is so fond of is ridiculous; the actually amusing part is that Polanski is the only (as far as I know) medically certified "normal" among prominent cultural figures; his psychiatric report explicitly states no perversion of any kind, and no deviant inclinations, specifically not toward pedophilia.
Now, the "rape" part. Unfortunately, in some states of the US (not in any other country of the world) there's a notion of "statutory rape", which only means having sex with someone who is below the age of consent, whether or not the intercourse was consensual (which the probation officers concluded that it was; comparing the testimonies, I can't but agree with them; it also corresponds to what Ms.Geimer medical report says, and the testimonies of the doctor).
The horrible picture of someone raping a child (who said herself on multiple occasions, "He wasn't hurting me, he wasn't mean or forceful or anything like that") is in fact an instance of unlawful (according to the US laws; would have been lawful in Spain, by the way, and, should it happen two weeks later, in quite a few other European countries) sex with whom everybody thought a young woman, an idiotic mistake, right, but nothing like what the media revels in.
Our "Swiss friends", luckily, relied on the facts of the case, not their representation in newspaper articles and Internet comments. So did the whole cultural community of Europe, including the French Academy (as well as the President and the Minister of Culture of the French Republic) and the best part of the US cultural community.
(I have a lot more to say, on all the particular details. I hope, however, the majority of those who have posted here are more interested in other aspects of Mr.Polanski's life and work.)
Well - can I give a "free pass" to someone who once had sex with a lady below the age of consent given that she was, as described in documents, "physically mature"? In his probation report it is described as "an exercise of poor judgment by the defendant"; can I forgive this?
I am afraid I can.
I fully realize the responsibility I take.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The teenager's troubling--and contemporaneous--account of her abuse at Polanski's hands begins with her posing twice for topless photos that the director said were for French Vogue. The girl then told prosecutors how Polanski directed her to, "Take off your underwear" and enter the Jacuzzi, where he photographed her naked. Soon, the director, who was then 43, joined her in the hot tub. He also wasn't wearing any clothes and, according to Gailey's testimony, wrapped his hands around the child's waist.
The girl testified that she left the Jacuzzi and entered a bedroom in Nicholson's home, where Polanski sat down beside her and kissed the teen, despite her demands that he "keep away." According to Gailey, Polanski then performed a sex act on her and later "started to have intercourse with me." At one point, according to Gailey's testimony, Polanski asked the 13-year-old if she was "on the pill," and "When did you last have your period?" Polanski then asked her, Gailey recalled, "Would you want me to go in through your back?" before he "put his penis in my butt." Asked why she did not more forcefully resist Polanski, the teenager told Deputy D.A. Roger Gunson, "Because I was afraid of him."
And it would be one thing if he had a one-night stand at a bar with someone he didn't know and later found out she was underage but this was premeditated on his part. Polanski knew she was 13. So there's no excuse whatsoever for his horrific behavior.
Also, here are some other images of Samantha from 1977 for the sake of argument as to how old she looked.
A hound will die for you, but never lie to you. And he'll look you straight in the face.
Here we come to the "he said she said" part. Ms.Geimer is remarkably inconsistent in what she says on different occasions; if nobody objects (or, in fact, even if everybody does), I will not take her words (or any given instance of them) for granted, but compare them with other details revealed in the course of the investigation. Before I proceed, however, I have to say one thing.
Now, as I had, alas, expected, there's some agitation in this thread, as well as some quick reaction. Dwelling on the '77 case alone seems to me utterly unfair, so I next time I post about those unfortunate events will be after I, or anybody else, posts something movie-related.
Originally Posted by Darkthoughts
Jean, your first post was incredible
It's worth the wait to hear what Bears have to say.
Thank you love, I needed this right at this moment. Bears have a lot to say, and they will (they hope to post an analysis of Repulsion some time soon)
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw Frantic tonight. It was pretty good, but easily the least essential Polanski I've seen thus far.
Frantic suffered drastic changes, the producer insisted on the ending being radically altered - originally there was to be no happy end (of course), and the last twist was going to leave the Harrison Ford character deep in shit, in full accordance with the developments of the first half of the movie. Polanski elegantly hinted at being made to alter the ending: the last spoken (Walker to his wife) line is "I love you baby", which clashes with everything we'd ever heard, would hear, or expect to hear in his movie.
I love it nevertheless, especially the specific humor. I hope you speak French, it is essential that the movie be watched with both languages active.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I for one am not gonna' "give him a pass" because he was a great director. I honestly don't know enough to decide him guilty or innocent, so I choose to make no judgement at all. It is not my place and it would be an injustice to do so. He is however one of the greatest directors ever....that's not really giving him a pass on his personal life or things he's done. It's merely acknowledging his greatness in one area. Whether he did or didn't do some or all of the things people say neither adds nor takes away from what he's done in his career. If he is a pedophile (and I honestly just don't know enough on that) then he is a pedophile who can really direct some great fucking movies that will have an indelible impression on the industry for all time. In that case he might be a horrible person, but one who's done some great movies.
The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.
If you rescue me
I’ll be your friend forever
I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)
Jean, I honestly doubt you'd feel the same if he raped your daughter. He KNEW she was 13. Some girls are more physically mature than others. So what? She was still 13 and she still said no. We still put Nazis on trials even though WWII ended a long time ago. Time doesn't make the crime go away, especially if the accused flees before serving his sentence.
Brice, the charges against him still stand in the US because he commited a crime against a US citizen so really what the Swiss or the French think is irrelevant. If Polanski is truly innocent and an honorable man, he would come to the US and face the judge... he however chooses to hide. What picture does that send you?
It sends me no picture. Unless I'm going to be privy to the relevant info and enough of it to make a fair judgement then I need not make one. Even if he's 100% guilty he still made great movies. I'm not on a jury for him so I don't have the right or the burden to judge him. It's sort of like when the whole Michael Jackson thing happened (and I realize this might be offensive to some), but I said if he's a child molester he's a very talented child molester. Of course I didn't mean this cruelly, but as I said it takes nothing away from his creative output which is all I'm in a position to make judgement on.
The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.
If you rescue me
I’ll be your friend forever
I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)
To me, it sends a feeling that like the woman in question
has said herself. Life has moved on, and the media has made her to suffer repeatedly
concering this. I think having lived thru' this myself, I can honestly say I am happy it is in my past, let it be.Things happen in life who can say why? We learn from these experiences, and go on.For those that were adults then, enen miniature ones. Life was a blur of sex and drugs, She was there, consentually. Her mommy should have kept her home I can agree with that, but a famous hollywood directer asked for her , and in my view got her with permission. Sorry to be so frank here, but if the man who was with me when I was 14-15 is still alive ( he was 40 something at the time) he is old enough to die with his own feelings about what we did together. I on the other hand have always taken responsibility for my actions right or wrong instead of crying rape after the fact.
Sorry everyone, but do not send your children out to play with grown men.
Yeah, I will say I feel that if the victim of a crime wants it to be over then society should give them that instead of some sanctioned watered down revenge where society wasn't the victim, but the individual was.
The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.
If you rescue me
I’ll be your friend forever
I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)
Sooo, we're going to give this pedophile a free pass because he makes good movies? Did everyone forget he raped a 13 year old girl?
Read up on that please before you glorify that rapist some more. It does NOT matter that it happened a long time ago, that doesn't make the crime go away. His case was never closed and I'm glad he got arrested. Our Swiss friends didn't want to send him back to the States even though of the roughly 200 extradiction requests they deny only 5%. Mr. Polanski somehow ended up being in the 5% and now he's a free man again.
No, it should not be. It is the same as an extradition case between states. A foreign entity has the legal right to review the matter and refuse the request for cause.
The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.
If you rescue me
I’ll be your friend forever
I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)
I just can't understand why, if he thinks he's innocent, he doesn't go to the US to clear his name! The only reason i can think of is that he's guilty!
I just can't understand why, if he thinks he's innocent, he doesn't go to the US to clear his name! The only reason i can think of is that he's guilty!
A good portion of the public is already determined he is guilty...whether he is or isn't. Maybe he isn't so sure he'll be declared innocent even if he is. You'd have one hell of a time now finding an impartial jury.
The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.
If you rescue me
I’ll be your friend forever
I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)
OK. Here is a simple fact: HE HAD SEX WITH A 13 YEAR OLD. He KNEW how old she was and he KNEW what he was doing. Her mom is an idiot as well but then again, maybe she didn't exactly know a 43 year old man would have anal sex with her daughter?
We have a law regarding sex with minors. That law is there to protect the kids. I don't think it'd be too hard to somehow manipulate a 13 year old into having sex with you.
You know what they say... you made your bed, now lie in it.
OK. Here is a simple fact: HE HAD SEX WITH A 13 YEAR OLD. He KNEW how old she was and he KNEW what he was doing. Her mom is an idiot as well but then again, maybe she didn't exactly know a 43 year old man would have anal sex with her daughter?
We have a law regarding sex with minors. That law is there to protect the kids. I don't think it'd be too hard to somehow manipulate a 13 year old into having sex with you.
You know what they say... you made your bed, now lie in it.
You seem totally convinced. On what evidence are you basing this?
The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.
If you rescue me
I’ll be your friend forever
I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)
He doesn't deny it. I think that should speak for itself. Also there are links if you look them up saying even doctors confirmed there was intercourse.
Someone brought up Michael Jackson. Do you want to know the difference between Polanski and Jackson? MJ actually has actually been accused of that stuff before and he faced the judge, the jury and the people each time. This Polanski guy, according to the doctors was sane and there were no indications he had done it before or would do it again but he's still refusing to co-operate. This thread has shown that there are people willing to let it go and let past be past. Maybe the judge would see it his way but Polanski is refusing to accept responsibility.
P.S. We're also talking about a judicial system which let O.J. and Jackson walk away so it's not far-fetched that they would let Polanski go as well. He has time and willingness of his victim to let it go on his side. So the question is, what exactly does he have to hide?
I hear everybody, will answer tomorrow with a clear head (much as I would like to, now that the summer is over I can't devote all of my life to this case - only half of it).
Looks like my review on Repulsion will have to wait, which is a shame.
Brice: thanks a million.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hear everybody, will answer tomorrow with a clear head (much as I would like to, now that the summer is over I can't devote all of my life to this case - only half of it).
Looks like my review on Repulsion will have to wait, which is a shame.
Brice: thanks a million.
For?
Originally Posted by WeDealInLead
He doesn't deny it. I think that should speak for itself. Also there are links if you look them up saying even doctors confirmed there was intercourse.
Someone brought up Michael Jackson. Do you want to know the difference between Polanski and Jackson? MJ actually has actually been accused of that stuff before and he faced the judge, the jury and the people each time. This Polanski guy, according to the doctors was sane and there were no indications he had done it before or would do it again but he's still refusing to co-operate. This thread has shown that there are people willing to let it go and let past be past. Maybe the judge would see it his way but Polanski is refusing to accept responsibility.
P.S. We're also talking about a judicial system which let O.J. and Jackson walk away so it's not far-fetched that they would let Polanski go as well. He has time and willingness of his victim to let it go on his side. So the question is, what exactly does he have to hide?
No, the real question is what business of it of ours. It is for the courts and our government to deal with if they can; not for the public or the media. Until he is tried and found guilty its certainly not my business. Do I doubt he had sex with a teenaged girl? No! Of course not. But I also don't claim to know all the facts here. I haven't read transcripts. I haven't really investigated it myself and I just don't know enough. If that's not a good enough answer I'm sorry for that, but it's the only one I can rightly give. And so for now my opinion stands at leaving it alone.
The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.
If you rescue me
I’ll be your friend forever
I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)
oh, just for the fact of your existence in the universe. I sometimes feel like thanking a friend just for this. It happens to old bears.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by Seymour_Glass
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