The Box (Beware... Spoilers Inside)

[Heather19]

After talking with Ricky we came up with all these other questions about the film. Most of which could probably never be answered, but I thought they could lead to some good discussions.


So here's a few to get us started

How is Steward connected to this test? Is he being controlled by someone, and if so who?
What exactly is the test?
Do we have free will?
How does pressing the trigger of the gun connect to the pressing of the button by the next couple?

[Melike]

Well you know my theory about Steward. I think he is an employer of an alien community making experiments on human, to understand our nature. Maybe because of the same reason with why we are experimenting on animals.

Put a mouse in a labyrinth and watch if it can find the way to the cheese. Then try it again to see if it can learn the way. And then again, give it some medicine to see if it improves its performance.
I think the test was something like this. They were preparing conditions for people, making them an extraordinary offer and then watchin what was going to happen.

Your last question is the hardest for me, because I don't really have an explanation for it.
We know Steward can see through his employers' eyes. And ''they'' have been doing these tests for a while at least long enough to see how and nearly when human react and push the button after the offer, so Steward makes the offer at a time when other couple's story is getting close to an end.

[Ricky]

Heather!

Well you know my theory about Steward. I think he is an employer of an alien community making experiments on human, to understand our nature.

That's what I thought as well, but Heather and I found that there are no direct mentionings of aliens, just what we infer. Still, I would have to agree with the theory that Steward was part of an alien race and the button was implimented to see if we as humans are worthy of salvation.

Along that line, there were some subtle hints about purgatory that me and Heather were talking about. It'd be cool to see what you think, Melike.

[Heather19]

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the whole free will thing. Do they actually have free will? They were set up to be in a tough spot when this opportunity arrived. Norma didn't receive the money that she was counting on to get her surgery done, and Arthur's astronaut application wasn't accepted. So their decision to push the button is definitely clouded by this. Another example is when Arthur chooses door 2. Throughout the whole beginning of the film people keep holding up the peace sign indicated the number 2 to him, so that number will be in his head when given the decision to pick a door. Did this also cloud his judgment with what door he picked? And then there's the whole trigger-button pushing thing. Did he have a choice, or was it already established that he would pull the trigger since the next couple had pushed the button?

And I'm also curious about your thoughts on what the test actually is. Did you think the whole thing was just a series of tests? Was the pushing of the button the actual test? I'm beginning to think that the real test was at the end. Would they pull the trigger and free their son or would they not pull it and live with the consequences (however bad they may be) of their actions. When would Steward stop going around and implementing this "test". Just when enough people stopped pushing the button, or when enough people decided not to pull the trigger at the end?

Sorry we're bombarding you with so many questions

[Ricky]

It's like an interrogation; we might've scared her off!

[Melike]

It's like an interrogation; we might've scared her off!

Heather!

Well you know my theory about Steward. I think he is an employer of an alien community making experiments on human, to understand our nature.

That's what I thought as well, but Heather and I found that there are no direct mentionings of aliens, just what we infer. Still, I would have to agree with the theory that Steward was part of an alien race and the button was implimented to see if we as humans are worthy of salvation.

Along that line, there were some subtle hints about purgatory that me and Heather were talking about. It'd be cool to see what you think, Melike.

I know, there is not any certain reason for us to believe they are aliens. But still I feel like that.
It is said that Steward had became another 'thing' because of the lightning.
Which is similar to the event in The Astronout's Wife. I thought an alien consciousness had been put into the real Steward's body during the happening.

After Arthur had stepped into one of the water doors Nora asked him what he saw in the light. Arthur said that it was a place, neither here nor there, but somewhere in between, a place where the sidewalk ended.
At first, I thought that place was a kind of purgatory. Then I decided it was a kind of water cabin to analyse Arthur. Maybe they wanted him to believe it was purgatory, and his choice was important so he could avoid from the eternal damnation and made him enter to the cabin and trapped him.

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the whole free will thing. Do they actually have free will? They were set up to be in a tough spot when this opportunity arrived. Norma didn't receive the money that she was counting on to get her surgery done, and Arthur's astronaut application wasn't accepted. So their decision to push the button is definitely clouded by this. Another example is when Arthur chooses door 2. Throughout the whole beginning of the film people keep holding up the peace sign indicated the number 2 to him, so that number will be in his head when given the decision to pick a door. Did this also cloud his judgment with what door he picked? And then there's the whole trigger-button pushing thing. Did he have a choice, or was it already established that he would pull the trigger since the next couple had pushed the button?

And I'm also curious about your thoughts on what the test actually is. Did you think the whole thing was just a series of tests? Was the pushing of the button the actual test? I'm beginning to think that the real test was at the end. Would they pull the trigger and free their son or would they not pull it and live with the consequences (however bad they may be) of their actions. When would Steward stop going around and implementing this "test". Just when enough people stopped pushing the button, or when enough people decided not to pull the trigger at the end?

Sorry we're bombarding you with so many questions

Heather this is a very good question. I am impressed.
They are pushed to the choices, not by their free will, in my humble opinion. I also believe that even they haven't done anything else(like making you lose our job of need money) and asked you to push a button to earn money, and accept to be responsible for a person's death, naturally your thoughts would be canalised into the river of ''acting'', instead of not to do something.

I think the test is not only about humans. As I have said before, I think it is similar to our tests on animals, on nature. We do it to find a cure to a disease, to find new places to live, new resources to use, to understand the rules of universe/multiverse and invent things useful for many different aims. I don't have a guess about which was/were their reason but it should be something useful for them.

I think pushing the button and pulling the trigger were not the two different actions. I mean, at the beginning of the movie when Nora&Arthur pushed the button, they pulled the trigger of that person who they do not know. So, when Arthur pulled the trigger of the gun holded against Nora, it meant that the button had been pushed.

With so many amazing questions.
I'd like to hear you know, Ricky, Heather.

[Ricky]

It is said that Steward had became another 'thing' because of the lightning. Which is similar to the event in The Astronout's Wife. I thought an alien consciousness
had been put into the real Steward's body during the happening.

See, that's exactly what I thought: that some kind of alien "soul" was placed into Steward's body via the lightening, kind of like in War of the Worlds. Steward was reporting back to his employer (the other aliens) about the test and humans' reactions to it, which would explain why he looked genuinely suprised and touched when Norma said she felt compassion towards him--because he had grown accustomed to the idea that all humans were immoral.

A theory I had regarding this was that because of Norma's compassion towards Steward, the test and outcome of it will begin to change little by little with each couples' desicion until it is finally passed.

Dark Tower VII Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Kind of like at the end of DTVII where Roland has to repeat his quest over again, but this time had the Horn of Eld, showing a little, positive change.

After Arthur had stepped into one of the water doors Nora asked him what he saw in the light. Arthur said that it was a place, neither here nor there, but somewhere in between, a place where the sidewalk ended.
At first, I thought that place was a kind of purgatory.

Yup, same here. I think that's the only hint of purgatory that we got, but I think it's enough. But something I've never understood about purgatory portrayed in movies and books: how does one die in purgatory?

They are pushed to the choices, not by their free will, in my humble opinion. I
also believe that even they haven't done anything else(like making you lose our job of need money) and asked you to push a button to earn money, and accept to be responsible for a person's death, naturally your thoughts would be canalised into the river of ''acting'', instead of not to do something.

So your thoughts are that no matter the circumstances, decisions are solidified by morals? That's kind of what I was thinking too. Though I'm having a hard time disputing that Steward didn't sabotage their lives to make them push the button. Hmm...

As for the button pushing being linked to the gun's trigger...I still have no idea what to make of that.

[Melike]

It is said that Steward had became another 'thing' because of the lightning. Which is similar to the event in The Astronout's Wife. I thought an alien consciousness
had been put into the real Steward's body during the happening.

See, that's exactly what I thought: that some kind of alien "soul" was placed into Steward's body via the lightening, kind of like in War of the Worlds. Steward was reporting back to his employer (the other aliens) about the test and humans' reactions to it, which would explain why he looked genuinely suprised and touched when Norma said she felt compassion towards him--because he had grown accustomed to the idea that all humans were immoral.

A theory I had regarding this was that because of Norma's compassion towards Steward, the test and outcome of it will begin to change little by little with each couples' desicion until it is finally passed.

Dark Tower VII Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Kind of like at the end of DTVII where Roland has to repeat his quest over again, but this time had the Horn of Eld, showing a little, positive change.

That is cool! If we were sure it was a test to pass the purgatory to reach the other life or a higher level of being, this would be the best explanation.
*I wonder if there is something, some image or story that we, people here, can not associate with Dark Tower? *

After Arthur had stepped into one of the water doors Nora asked him what he saw in the light. Arthur said that it was a place, neither here nor there, but somewhere in between, a place where the sidewalk ended.
At first, I thought that place was a kind of purgatory.

Yup, same here. I think that's the only hint of purgatory that we got, but I think it's enough. But something I've never understood about purgatory portrayed in movies and books: how does one die in purgatory?

That's really weird. And cruel.
What do you think that happens to a guy who died in purgatory?

They are pushed to the choices, not by their free will, in my humble opinion. I also believe that even they haven't done anything else(like making you lose our job of need money) and asked you to push a button to earn money, and accept to be responsible for a person's death, naturally your thoughts would be canalised into the river of ''acting'', instead of not to do something.

So your thoughts are that no matter the circumstances, decisions are solidified by morals? That's kind of what I was thinking too. Though I'm having a hard time disputing that Steward didn't sabotage their lives to make them push the button. Hmm...

I believe desicions are solidified by the three musketeers; id, ego and superego. But when the conditions change and get harder, id gets stronger and ego can not balance basic and primitive part of subconscious with superego, anymore.

As for the button pushing being linked to the gun's trigger...I still have no idea what to make of that.

Remember Arthur C. Clarke's third law: ''Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.''

[Heather19]

Well I've told you both my theory before, but I did recently rewatch the film Melike, and that did solidify my belief in the purgatory/God/salvation theory. That's not to say it can't be interpreted in many different ways though, because it is left very open. And that's what I like about it. You can really choose you're own interpretation of what's going on. There's no direct mention to aliens, however there is the whole Mars backdrop. Steward says that he is just a vessel that's administering this test, and that he does have employers, so I can easily see where the alien theory comes from as well.

But there's so many religious references throughout the film as well. So I'm still under the belief that Steward is acting as a messenger from God and presenting the human race with the opportunity to bypass this life and move directly onto the next. There's the whole idea of purgatory. Arthur mentions that he was shown a glimpse of the afterlife, and that this life that they are living is in fact purgatory. The idea of salvation. Also Adam & Eve. One thing that I did pick up on upon rewatching the film was that if you notice we only see women push the button, kinda similar to Eve taking the apple. I just thought that was kinda interesting, considering there's only three couples shown in the film, and with all three it's the woman that chooses to push the button and condemn their family because of their own greed.

They are pushed to the choices, not by their free will, in my humble opinion. I also believe that even they haven't done anything else(like making you lose our job of need money) and asked you to push a button to earn money, and accept to be responsible for a person's death, naturally your thoughts would be canalised into the river of ''acting'', instead of not to do something.

So your thoughts are that no matter the circumstances, decisions are solidified by morals? That's kind of what I was thinking too. Though I'm having a hard time disputing that Steward didn't sabotage their lives to make them push the button. Hmm...

I believe desicions are solidified by the three musketeers; id, ego and superego. But when the conditions change and get harder, id gets stronger and ego can not balance basic and primitive part of subconscious with superego, anymore.

As for the whole free will thing, I'm under the belief that we all have it, and we can choose our actions. But I agree with you about the id and ego. Our actions are definitely dependent upon what is happening in our life at that time. So yes I think it was set up by Steward that they would push the button. They didn't really have a choice per say. Which leads me into thinking that the test is not about whether they would push the button or not because it's already established beforehand that they would in fact push it. But the real test is how they would react once put into that situation.

So when does the test end, and what do the people have to do to show "Steward" that they passed? I think this could be the final moment when they have to decide if they should pull the trigger. Early in the film the babysitter says to Arthur "look into the light, there is only one person that can save you, look in the mirror and you'll see". Arthur enters the light by choosing door 2, and after he comes back did you notice that as they're cleaning up, he goes to grab something from the liquor cabinet. When he opens it there's a mirror there and we see him pause as he's looking at his reflection. So he has the ability to save himself. At this point everything's been done, and the only decision that he has left to make is whether or not he'll pull the trigger. And I think that is the point at which Steward could possibly be testing them. If enough people decide to not pull the trigger then I believe the test will end.

As for the button pushing being linked to the gun's trigger...I still have no idea what to make of that.

Remember Arthur C. Clarke's third law: ''Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.''

Oh good call. I hadn't thought of that either.

[Brice]

I have some answers for some of these, but I need to put more thought on it.

For now: I think "we" win by choosing not to play at all...as much as we can. Consequences can be embraced.

[Melike]

Well I've told you both my theory before, but I did recently rewatch the film Melike, and that did solidify my belief in the purgatory/God/salvation theory. That's not to say it can't be interpreted in many different ways though, because it is left very open. And that's what I like about it. You can really choose you're own interpretation of what's going on. There's no direct mention to aliens, however there is the whole Mars backdrop. Steward says that he is just a vessel that's administering this test, and that he does have employers, so I can easily see where the alien theory comes from as well.

But there's so many religious references throughout the film as well. So I'm still under the belief that Steward is acting as a messenger from God and presenting the human race with the opportunity to bypass this life and move directly onto the next. There's the whole idea of purgatory. Arthur mentions that he was shown a glimpse of the afterlife, and that this life that they are living is in fact purgatory. The idea of salvation. Also Adam & Eve. One thing that I did pick up on upon rewatching the film was that if you notice we only see women push the button, kinda similar to Eve taking the apple. I just thought that was kinda interesting, considering there's only three couples shown in the film, and with all three it's the woman that chooses to push the button and condemn their family because of their own greed.

You're right, I too believe that they left it open intentionally.

Alien theory seems... flat compared to this. It is very interesting. I didn't realise the Adam&Eve reference.

They are pushed to the choices, not by their free will, in my humble opinion. I also believe that even they haven't done anything else(like making you lose our job of need money) and asked you to push a button to earn money, and accept to be responsible for a person's death, naturally your thoughts would be canalised into the river of ''acting'', instead of not to do something.

So your thoughts are that no matter the circumstances, decisions are solidified by morals? That's kind of what I was thinking too. Though I'm having a hard time disputing that Steward didn't sabotage their lives to make them push the button. Hmm...

I believe desicions are solidified by the three musketeers; id, ego and superego. But when the conditions change and get harder, id gets stronger and ego can not balance basic and primitive part of subconscious with superego, anymore.

As for the whole free will thing, I'm under the belief that we all have it, and we can choose our actions. But I agree with you about the id and ego. Our actions are definitely dependent upon what is happening in our life at that time. So yes I think it was set up by Steward that they would push the button. They didn't really have a choice per say. Which leads me into thinking that the test is not about whether they would push the button or not because it's already established beforehand that they would in fact push it. But the real test is how they would react once put into that situation.

So when does the test end, and what do the people have to do to show "Steward" that they passed? I think this could be the final moment when they have to decide if they should pull the trigger. Early in the film the babysitter says to Arthur "look into the light, there is only one person that can save you, look in the mirror and you'll see". Arthur enters the light by choosing door 2, and after he comes back did you notice that as they're cleaning up, he goes to grab something from the liquor cabinet. When he opens it there's a mirror there and we see him pause as he's looking at his reflection. So he has the ability to save himself. At this point everything's been done, and the only decision that he has left to make is whether or not he'll pull the trigger. And I think that is the point at which Steward could possibly be testing them. If enough people decide to not pull the trigger then I believe the test will end.

So what do you think would happen if Arthur didn't pull the trigger?

As for the button pushing being linked to the gun's trigger...I still have no idea what to make of that.

Remember Arthur C. Clarke's third law: ''Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.''

Oh good call. I hadn't thought of that either.

This also the basic reason for me it is all about scince. I see your point about religious references. This situation reminded me Matrix trilogy which was a mixture of phylosophy, science and religion.

I put together some pieces of the book from screen captures. How do you explain these?
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...n/f559fe81.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...n/3f7290bc.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...n/3531ef9e.jpg

I have some answers for some of these, but I need to put more thought on it.

For now: I think "we" win by choosing not to play at all...as much as we can. Consequences can be embraced.

So, according to you, if Nora had given the box back to Steward and had said she didn't even want to think about the offer, they would win?

[Brice]

If she did...or maybe even if she thought about it and opted out I think she'd be as close to winning as she could have been.

[Melike]

If she did...or maybe even if she thought about it and opted out I think she'd be as close to winning as she could have been.

I believe, even not pushing the button is easier compared to refusing the box at the beginning.
We are curious creatures.

[Brice]

True. I have no doubt I'd have no problem not pushing the button once I found out what happens when you push it....now if I got to pick who was killed by me pushing the button....

[Heather19]

So when does the test end, and what do the people have to do to show "Steward" that they passed? I think this could be the final moment when they have to decide if they should pull the trigger. Early in the film the babysitter says to Arthur "look into the light, there is only one person that can save you, look in the mirror and you'll see". Arthur enters the light by choosing door 2, and after he comes back did you notice that as they're cleaning up, he goes to grab something from the liquor cabinet. When he opens it there's a mirror there and we see him pause as he's looking at his reflection. So he has the ability to save himself. At this point everything's been done, and the only decision that he has left to make is whether or not he'll pull the trigger. And I think that is the point at which Steward could possibly be testing them. If enough people decide to not pull the trigger then I believe the test will end.

So what do you think would happen if Arthur didn't pull the trigger?

I think they may have passed. They'd live their life. Norma wouldn't be dead, and he wouldn't be a new "employee". And if they were lucky maybe their son would actually be given his sight and hearing back. I have a feeling that's pretty unlikely though, but you never know.

This also the basic reason for me it is all about scince. I see your point about religious references. This situation reminded me Matrix trilogy which was a mixture of phylosophy, science and religion.

I put together some pieces of the book from screen captures. How do you explain these?
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...n/f559fe81.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...n/3f7290bc.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...n/3531ef9e.jpg

Well I'm not saying science isn't involved, it definitely is. If you're going to do an experiment it's going to be lined out beforehand, along with what you're testing. You can't just go in and start doing something without thinking about it first. But to me the whole sci-fi aspect is just a backdrop or setting to the real story. It's directed by Richard Kelly, the director of Donnie Darko and Southland Tales. None of his stories are straight forward. So I'm just under the impression that there was more going on in his head than just your typical sci-fi film. But either way I can see both interpretations working just fine.

I have some answers for some of these, but I need to put more thought on it.

For now: I think "we" win by choosing not to play at all...as much as we can. Consequences can be embraced.

So, according to you, if Nora had given the box back to Steward and had said she didn't even want to think about the offer, they would win?

I agree, that probably is the closest they could come to winning.

And I can't wait to hear more of your thoughts Brice.

[Ricky]

So maybe Norma could've "won", but what about all of humanity? Does the passing of the test result in the salvation of everyone, or just the couple who refused to push the button? Branching off of that, can we infer that no one that has been offered the button has declined?

[Heather19]

So maybe Norma could've "won", but what about all of humanity? Does the passing of the test result in the salvation of everyone, or just the couple who refused to push the button? Branching off of that, can we infer that no one that has been offered the button has declined?

Well Steward did say that if enough people passed they could stop the test right? So my guess is that so many people need to pass before humankind can be saved. I'm not even entirely sure Norma and Arthur would be saved had they passed. I just think they would be able to continue living their "life".

Has anyone declined pushing the button? I'm not sure. I'd like to think someone didn't, but I'm beginning to think that the pushing of the button is inevitable. But if at the end they don't pull the trigger then that would mean that the next couple might not push the button. So I don't know, maybe the testing would possibly end right there.

[Brice]

So maybe Norma could've "won", but what about all of humanity? Does the passing of the test result in the salvation of everyone, or just the couple who refused to push the button? Branching off of that, can we infer that no one that has been offered the button has declined?

Well Steward did say that if enough people passed they could stop the test right? So my guess is that so many people need to pass before humankind can be saved. I'm not even entirely sure Norma and Arthur would be saved had they passed. I just think they would be able to continue living their "life".

Has anyone declined pushing the button? I'm not sure. I'd like to think someone didn't, but I'm beginning to think that the pushing of the button is inevitable. But if at the end they don't pull the trigger then that would mean that the next couple might not push the button. So I don't know, maybe the testing would possibly end right there.

...or vice versa if the couple didn't push the button they wouldn't pull the trigger...total mind fuck.

[Melike]

So when does the test end, and what do the people have to do to show "Steward" that they passed? I think this could be the final moment when they have to decide if they should pull the trigger. Early in the film the babysitter says to Arthur "look into the light, there is only one person that can save you, look in the mirror and you'll see". Arthur enters the light by choosing door 2, and after he comes back did you notice that as they're cleaning up, he goes to grab something from the liquor cabinet. When he opens it there's a mirror there and we see him pause as he's looking at his reflection. So he has the ability to save himself. At this point everything's been done, and the only decision that he has left to make is whether or not he'll pull the trigger. And I think that is the point at which Steward could possibly be testing them. If enough people decide to not pull the trigger then I believe the test will end.

So what do you think would happen if Arthur didn't pull the trigger?

I think they may have passed. They'd live their life. Norma wouldn't be dead, and he wouldn't be a new "employee". And if they were lucky maybe their son would actually be given his sight and hearing back. I have a feeling that's pretty unlikely though, but you never know.

This also the basic reason for me it is all about scince. I see your point about religious references. This situation reminded me Matrix trilogy which was a mixture of phylosophy, science and religion.

I put together some pieces of the book from screen captures. How do you explain these?
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...n/f559fe81.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...n/3f7290bc.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...n/3531ef9e.jpg

Well I'm not saying science isn't involved, it definitely is. If you're going to do an experiment it's going to be lined out beforehand, along with what you're testing. You can't just go in and start doing something without thinking about it first. But to me the whole sci-fi aspect is just a backdrop or setting to the real story. It's directed by Richard Kelly, the director of Donnie Darko and Southland Tales. None of his stories are straight forward. So I'm just under the impression that there was more going on in his head than just your typical sci-fi film. But either way I can see both interpretations working just fine.

I have some answers for some of these, but I need to put more thought on it.

For now: I think "we" win by choosing not to play at all...as much as we can. Consequences can be embraced.

So, according to you, if Nora had given the box back to Steward and had said she didn't even want to think about the offer, they would win?

I agree, that probably is the closest they could come to winning.

And I can't wait to hear more of your thoughts Brice.

This is the thing I was wondering when I asked you the question. It seems to me like it is a bluff and they might give back his stolen abilities to the son, if Arthur hadn't killed Nora. Because, from the beginning to end, actually they don't get involved, they don't kill or hurt anybody.

I thought exactly the opposite. Religious/phylosophycal aspect is a backdrop to the real story.
But I must confess that I am amazed with the extraordinary way you interpreted the story, differently from many of us, ''the alien theory''. And I really do not know which theory is true, or if, only one of them is true. I just can not stop thinking they were aliens maybe because this was the first impression I have got from the movie.

So maybe Norma could've "won", but what about all of humanity? Does the passing of the test result in the salvation of everyone, or just the couple who refused to push the button? Branching off of that, can we infer that no one that has been offered the button has declined?

Well Steward did say that if enough people passed they could stop the test right? So my guess is that so many people need to pass before humankind can be saved. I'm not even entirely sure Norma and Arthur would be saved had they passed. I just think they would be able to continue living their "life".

Has anyone declined pushing the button? I'm not sure. I'd like to think someone didn't, but I'm beginning to think that the pushing of the button is inevitable. But if at the end they don't pull the trigger then that would mean that the next couple might not push the button. So I don't know, maybe the testing would possibly end right there.

Exactly! But also pulling the trigger is inevitable, too. Considering that their children is the most important thing in the world to parents, even more that their own lives, it maybe more inevitable than pushing the button. Because if they do not pull the trigger the one who is going to be hurt will not be a person who they do not know; it is going to be their child. And it that situation the wife's life seems less important to herself and then to the husband.
In the end, both of them; pushing the button and pulling the trigger are the same points in the story, like the end and the beginnig of a circle. They have little differences, and they both seem inevitable. But appearently, not choosing to do these is not impossible.
Absolutely. This was what I meant when I told you I believed the both actions are the same, and it was enough to be able to pass one of them. As the two, looks connected in a way we do not understand, passing one of them means the other one also has been passed. If Arthur didn't pull the trigger, it means that the button hasn't been pushed by the next couple which means the previous couple didn't pull the trigger.

[Melike]

So maybe Norma could've "won", but what about all of humanity? Does the passing of the test result in the salvation of everyone, or just the couple who refused to push the button? Branching off of that, can we infer that no one that has been offered the button has declined?

Well Steward did say that if enough people passed they could stop the test right? So my guess is that so many people need to pass before humankind can be saved. I'm not even entirely sure Norma and Arthur would be saved had they passed. I just think they would be able to continue living their "life".

Has anyone declined pushing the button? I'm not sure. I'd like to think someone didn't, but I'm beginning to think that the pushing of the button is inevitable. But if at the end they don't pull the trigger then that would mean that the next couple might not push the button. So I don't know, maybe the testing would possibly end right there.

...or vice versa if the couple didn't push the button they wouldn't pull the trigger...total mind fuck.

[Heather19]

This is the thing I was wondering when I asked you the question. It seems to me like it is a bluff and they might give back his stolen abilities to the son, if Arthur hadn't killed Nora. Because, from the beginning to end, actually they don't get involved, they don't kill or hurt anybody.

I was wondering about it as well. I thought it might just be wishful thinking on my part, but you're right they never did hurt anyone physically themselves. So maybe it was just a condition they set up in the test to see how the couple would react, and that they never intended to leave the child that way.

Exactly! But also pulling the trigger is inevitable, too. Considering that their children is the most important thing in the world to parents, even more that their own lives, it maybe more inevitable than pushing the button. Because if they do not pull the trigger the one who is going to be hurt will not be a person who they do not know; it is going to be their child. And it that situation the wife's life seems less important to herself and then to the husband.
In the end, both of them; pushing the button and pulling the trigger are the same points in the story, like the end and the beginnig of a circle. They have little differences, and they both seem inevitable. But appearently, not choosing to do these is not impossible.
Absolutely. This was what I meant when I told you I believed the both actions are the same, and it was enough to be able to pass one of them. As the two, looks connected in a way we do not understand, passing one of them means the other one also has been passed. If Arthur didn't pull the trigger, it means that the button hasn't been pushed by the next couple which means the previous couple didn't pull the trigger.

...or vice versa if the couple didn't push the button they wouldn't pull the trigger...total mind fuck.

And I agree, deciding not to pull the trigger would be far harder than deciding not to push the button. It is just one big circle.
My head hurts just thinking about it

[Ricky]

Okay, I think this thread is going to give me headaches.

And totally off topic-on topic: I'm changing the name of the movie to The Button, as the box was only in the movie for a short amount of time. It was, however, a really nice cardboard box.

[Brice]

Well, Matheson's original story was Button Button.

[Ricky]

Exactly. I guess artist license and all that crap.

[Still Servant]

I watched the box last night and I enjoyed it.

It also left me with a bunch of questions. I'm still not sure what the bigger picture is.

I know they were experimenting on the NASA employees, but I'm not sure why. Like Heather, I found the similarity between the women pushing the button in the movie and Eve picking the apple, which led to the opening of Pandora's Box.

I don't think there really was free will in the film. The cutting of the faculty scholarship and the main character not passing the astronaut test, led them to push the button.

In both instances, it was engineered by Steward and his employees. The man who told Diaz the scholarship was cut started to bleed from the nose and as for not passing the test, that was an easy fix by the guys at NASA who were all in on it.