This is a bit image-heavy, and one might argue a bit off-topic. But I've mentioned this a number of times, so I thought you might want to see what I mean.
As you may or may not know, Peter David's had a long career before working on Dark Tower. He's done several runs for several titles. He is in many ways the definitive Hulk writer, but he's also a great Spider-Man writer.
All of these are from his Spider-Man work, so if you have no interest in it, you might as well skip it.
In case you are wondering if this is legal, these are only excerpts and not the whole thing.
Now again, I still have to say that I've enjoyed "Long Road Home" much better than "Gunslinger Born". Still, these two Spider-Man stories are probably a blip on Peter David's career (although the first one was dedicated to one of David's friends who passed away, so maybe its more than that) whereas his Dark Tower work is probably his biggest project in a long time. But I'm glad that David's writing DT, just as I am that Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa is doing The Stand, as both are underrated writers who don't nearly get the credit they deserve.
Still, in David's defense, he was largely adapting another writer's work and when he finally got to do his own stuff (albeit being guided) I think he had more free reign as a writer.
But in the end, I posted these two stories as a representative of the work that probably helped David get the job he got and how good he can really be.
07-19-2008 10:02 AM
inertia1215
Thanks a lot!! Those were great!!
Peter David is very very talented, and yes very underrated. Didn't know a lot about his background so thanks for the info!!
07-19-2008 11:48 AM
jayson
Thanks Cyber. I appreciate the background info on David. I know nothing about comics outside of DT so this was interesting for me.
07-19-2008 12:21 PM
Brainslinger
Great extracts Cyber.
The first story reminded me of another tale (I'm not sure of the author), where Spider-man visits a kid,
Spoiler:
only to find out at the end the kid was in hospital suffering from terminal cancer.
07-19-2008 01:40 PM
mia/susannah
Cyber, those storeis are very good. I don't have any comics as of yet. I would like to get the dark tower comics and the stand but no way I can do that any time soon
07-11-2009 02:20 AM
turtlex
Robin Furth and Peter David / Dark Tower Comic Writers
Citizens of the Comic Tower - Feel free to use this thread for discussions on Robin Furth and Peter David ( writers for the Dark Tower Series of comics ).
Peter David is somewhat of a legend in comic writing.
Robin Furth speaks about her relationship to Sai King here.
Comments / Questions / Concerns ?!?
07-11-2009 06:53 AM
pathoftheturtle
I used to like Peter David a lot. He's just not the same guy anymore. Are we going to discuss his novels here, or should we also have one or more threads in "Dutch Hill"?
David did some great (and popular) Star Trek stuff, and he's done a lot of work adapting other franchise properties/fantasy films to print. I think that that was why he got tapped to script the DT books, but I'm not so sure that he was really the best choice.
As for Robin Furth, well, what can I say? She's not really much outside of the box.
07-11-2009 08:41 AM
turtlex
This should be used to discuss comic works, but if you want to make mention and reference to Peter David's other writing - of course, you should.
It bares mentioning that Peter David does write novels, as not all comic writers do or can.
Peter David is a legend over at Marvel. He's written a lot of the top titles.
07-11-2009 11:20 AM
CyberGhostface
I don't care for either of them at the moment, as people or as writers.
With Furth, she's just not a good writer and I don't know why she was picked for being the main writer. Her Concordances show that she would be good for an a consultant in terms of keeping track of details and characters, but as a good storyteller? No. And she just comes off as pretty full of herself for someone whose career is completely dependent on another writer. Someone like Bev Vincent, who's both a DT expert and has written a lot of his own fiction (over fifty stories!) would be better.
As for Peter David...I used to like him, but his DT work has been fairly meh. Its like he's trying too hard. He's better than Furth by far, but it doesn't read like Dark Tower--more like some generic fantasy featuring the DT characters. And his hick narrator pisses me off.
And I (indirectly) had a bad experience with him recently that really soured my opinion of him. (Here's where I go a bit off-topic...) I was part of a livejournal community called scans_daily where people would post selected scans (never the whole issue--just excerpts) from comics and discuss them. We also had a policy where we'd remove stuff if the creator didn't want us to post it. The point of the community was to get people interested in reading new stuff. For example, I know that I got a few people who wouldn't have looked at them otherwise hooked on The Walking Dead and Locke & Key. Professional comic writers, like Warren Ellis and Gail Simone, would frequently pop in to discuss stuff with us.
So Peter David saw this and threw a bitch-fit and got the community deleted. What's funny in retrospect was that he thought we were responsible for comicbook piracy and that he was putting a stop to it! When there are hundreds of torrent sites posting the full issues of comics for free, he's going after a small community of people posting on average a third at most of the issue in an attempt to get people to buy it when they wouldn't have otherwise!
And in case anyone wants to know, "Why are you still getting the comics if you don't like them?" I'm not. As of yesterday, I've dropped the Dark Tower comics from my pull list at my shop. I wanted to stick through until the end as its almost over, but the quality of the comics and general money issues have made me stop. As of now, the only comics I'm getting are Ultimate Spider-Man, The Walking Dead and Locke & Key. I might flip through them at the shop and get the trades from my library just to keep up on the discussions here but overall I've washed my hands of them.
07-11-2009 02:42 PM
Brainslinger
Quote:
in case anyone wants to know, "Why are you still getting the comics if you don't like them?" I'm not. As of yesterday, I've dropped the Dark Tower comics from my pull list at my shop. I wanted to stick through until the end as its almost over, but the quality of the comics and general money issues have made me stop.
That's a shame... but fair enough if you don't like it.
The issues have been a bit up and down for me but overall I've liked them. I really like the latest arc.
As for the writers, my only experience of there work is the comics - as far as I know, it's quite possible I've read Peter David's work elsewhere and just didn't realise - and of course Furth's concordances.
To be honest I'd have preferred it to all have been written by King, but it would be unfair to expect that considering it's a) new stuff and b) they're writers who should be allowed to be creative in their own right. Unfortunately, this leaves them in a awkward position since us readers of the novels already have mental images of how certain things would be... then when these writers come up with something else it feels like a contradiction. Actually, most of the time it's just a matter of interpretation*, and we shouldn't really blame them from that since we all have our own ideas anyway. When they contradict stuff that King has definitely established already then I think it's fair enough to take issue. They have done that once or twice I think.
I think David's narrator does go a bit overboard sometimes too. Overall it's not much of an issue for me though.
*Unfortunately it could be argued that Jonas's back story fits in this category. It feels wrong to me to suggest a piece of magic glass was responsible for the twisting of his character. On the other hand there is little in the novels that really contradicts this either. It's a poor device in my opinion - let him be completely responsible for his own actions - but not neccessarily a contradictory one.
The only proof that I could put forward for it not happening (and maybe this should be in another thread, but I've started now, ha ha) is the character of Jonas himself compared to the effect the mirror usually has on people. Namely, it makes people see bad things as good and vice-versa. I don't think Jonas see's everything that way. His evil is much more subtle than that. He doesn't see all good things as bad and bad things as good. He just doesn't care and is out for number one. Of course a counter-argument could be that the splinter, just being a little thing, has just a small effect. So again it comes down to opinion.... My own opinion is that it's just a story that grew in the telling.
07-11-2009 05:11 PM
CyberGhostface
It wasn't an easy decision for me to make as I was planning on sticking through with it until the end even if I didn't like them. At the same time, my shop is stocked with back issues, so if the situation improves I can just grab them. We'll see, I guess.
07-11-2009 05:45 PM
sleeplessdwarf
It is funny how some celebs(if they are) can act at times. I come from a city that has given us Roy Jones jr.(great guy to anyone he meets) and Emmit Smith(actually charges children for his autograph)
Only Dt comic I have atm is Gunslinger Born, so I can't make a comment on the two writers here.
07-11-2009 06:57 PM
Ruthful
The comics have been a real mixed bag, IMO. The most enjoyable part-from my perspective, at least-has been the extra touch added to flesh out stories that weren't included in the novels, e.g. Cort's classes, the stuff about Maerlyn, etc... The actual body of the comics aren't as impressive, although there have been a few highlights.
One major problem I have with Furth is her tendency to turn some of the colloquialisms of high speech into a bad parody of a Western set in mid-nineteenth century America. She also embroiders upon some peripheral references in King's works, which would have been better left on the cutting room floor.
07-12-2009 08:18 AM
turtlex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthful
One major problem I have with Furth is her tendency to turn some of the colloquialisms of high speech into a bad parody of a Western set in mid-nineteenth century America. She also embroiders upon some peripheral references in King's works, which would have been better left on the cutting room floor.
Yes, but is that Furth, or Peter David doing that?!? :orely:
Honestly, some of the writing is flat but I'm always engaged enough that I'm enjoying it.
And... I've read some horrible comic writers where I wondered if they even knew how to tell a story. There's a reason there are people like Peter David working on so many titles - he does it well ( IMHO ).
07-12-2009 09:17 AM
pathoftheturtle
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthful
One major problem I have with Furth is her tendency to (1.)turn some of the colloquialisms of high speech into a bad parody of a Western set in mid-nineteenth century America. She also (2.)embroiders upon some peripheral references in King's works, which would have been better left on the cutting room floor.
Yes, but is that Furth, or Peter David doing that?!? :orely:
1. Peter David 2. Robin Furth
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlex
This should be used to discuss comic works, but if you want to make mention and reference to Peter David's other writing - of course, you should.
:unsure: It's just that, having read his work for many years now, I think that comparing his early books to later ones gives a lot of insight on Peter David.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlex
It bares mentioning that Peter David does write novels, as not all comic writers do or can.
It also bears mentioning that not everyone who does write novels really can or should.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlex
Peter David is a legend over at Marvel. He's written a lot of the top titles.
He's not exactly an unknown over at D.C. either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainslinger
...Jonas's back story fits in this category. It feels wrong to me to suggest a piece of magic glass was responsible for the twisting of his character. ...maybe this should be in another thread...
I would suggest What's going on with Maerlyn?
Your argument is interesting, but I'd rather not turn another thread into that same debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeplessdwarf
Only Dt comic I have atm is Gunslinger Born, so I can't make a comment on the two writers here.
Same writers, all along. What did you think of the way they wrote tGB?
cyberghostface: Pulling in a comment of yours from another thread, to go with your current train--
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGhostface
...it'll probably be something both condescending and self-serving. Like when Peter David pretty much said he didn't give two shits what the fans thought because King approved what he wrote. ...
You're referring to his afterward to The Long Road Home, right? I also felt that, at that moment at least, he sounded like a major prick.
07-12-2009 12:31 PM
CyberGhostface
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle
Same writers, all along. What did you think of the way they wrote tGB?
Personally (I know your question was directed to someone else), I thought the initial arc was by the weakest in terms of both writing and adapting King's novel. For example, the only time I ever really liked Susan was when she stood up to Cordelia. And here Cordelia's little more than an afterthought. Or Rhea--she's King's most despicable villain in the novel, and in the comics she amounts to little more than a cameo here and there. And the list goes on. Obviously I'm not expecting an exact translation, but if they had done better job with pacing, removed some of the pointless added scenes with Walter and maybe cut down the number of excessive flash pages, they could have fit in some stuff that was actually important to the story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle
You're referring to his afterward to The Long Road Home, right? I also felt that, at that moment at least, he sounded like a major prick.
I actually haven't read the trade for that yet...could you pull up the quote? He may have said it twice. I remember reading it in an interview.
07-12-2009 12:41 PM
Brainslinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGhostface
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle
You're referring to his afterward to The Long Road Home, right? I also felt that, at that moment at least, he sounded like a major prick.
I actually haven't read the trade for that yet...could you pull up the quote? He may have said it twice. I remember reading it in an interview.
I think it was in one of the back sections of one of the individual comics too.
07-13-2009 10:29 AM
pixiedark76
I think that Peter David and Robin Furth are doing an excellent job so far. Especially Robin Furth. I think that she is a great writer because she is one of the most knowledgeable people on the Dark Tower. I like the different twists and spins she puts on the comics. I think that it is brilliant that Robin Furth used part of the Wizards Rainbow to turn Jonas into an evil person. Using the Wizards Rainbow on Jonas just makes the other parts of the Wizards Rainbow seem more important and they have more of an impact on the story. The Wizards Rainbow also seems more frightening; instead of just being some vague object that was just mentioned as a legend.
I just don't get it when people complain about the way the comics are written. In the first Arc (Gunslinger Born) people were complaining that it was too much like Wizard and Glass and they felt cheated when they bought it. Then when the other Arcs of the comics came out people complained that it was nothing like the Dark Tower books. :pullhair: It seems that you just can't please anybody! :arg:
07-13-2009 01:56 PM
Brainslinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiedark76
I think that it is brilliant that Robin Furth used part of the Wizards Rainbow to turn Jonas into an evil person.
It was supposedly a splinter from Maerlyn's magic mirror not the grapefruit. Whole different magic item.
As for the changes Furth made to the grapefruit in the Sorceror, I actually didn't mind that too much
Spoiler:
although having Rhea more involved would have been nice. Of course we don't know that she wasn't involved... the grapefruit doesn't directly lie according to the books.
It's just stuff we didn't know.
As for the The Gunslinger Born, I actually rather liked the new stuff they brought to it. It was mostly true to the original while showing us stuff going on elsewhere in the enemy's camp.
07-13-2009 02:48 PM
CyberGhostface
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiedark76
I think that she is a great writer because she is one of the most knowledgeable people on the Dark Tower.
Being knowledgeable about the Dark Tower (which Furth definitely is) does not necessarily translate to being a good writer. Maybe that's what Marvel thought when they chose her, but its two different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiedark76
I think that it is brilliant that Robin Furth used part of the Wizards Rainbow to turn Jonas into an evil person. Using the Wizards Rainbow on Jonas just makes the other parts of the Wizards Rainbow seem more important and they have more of an impact on the story. The Wizards Rainbow also seems more frightening; instead of just being some vague object that was just mentioned as a legend.
First off, Furth's "magic mirror" backstory was nothing original. See The Snow Queen by Hans Christan Andersen:
"You must attend to the commencement of this story, for when we get to the end we shall know more than we do now about a very wicked hobgoblin; he was one of the very worst, for he was a real demon. One day, when he was in a merry mood, he made a looking-glass which had the power of making everything good or beautiful that was reflected in it almost shrink to nothing, while everything that was worthless and bad looked increased in size and worse than ever. The most lovely landscapes appeared like boiled spinach, and the people became hideous, and looked as if they stood on their heads and had no bodies. Their countenances were so distorted that no one could recognize them, and even one freckle on the face appeared to spread over the whole of the nose and mouth. The demon said this was very amusing. When a good or pious thought passed through the mind of any one it was misrepresented in the glass; and then how the demon laughed at his cunning invention. All who went to the demon’s school—for he kept a school—talked everywhere of the wonders they had seen, and declared that people could now, for the first time, see what the world and mankind were really like. They carried the glass about everywhere, till at last there was not a land nor a people who had not been looked at through this distorted mirror. They wanted even to fly with it up to heaven to see the angels, but the higher they flew the more slippery the glass became, and they could scarcely hold it, till at last it slipped from their hands, fell to the earth, and was broken into millions of pieces. But now the looking-glass caused more unhappiness than ever, for some of the fragments were not so large as a grain of sand, and they flew about the world into every country. When one of these tiny atoms flew into a person’s eye, it stuck there unknown to him, and from that moment he saw everything through a distorted medium, or could see only the worst side of what he looked at, for even the smallest fragment retained the same power which had belonged to the whole mirror. Some few persons even got a fragment of the looking-glass in their hearts, and this was very terrible, for their hearts became cold like a lump of ice. A few of the pieces were so large that they could be used as window-panes; it would have been a sad thing to look at our friends through them. Other pieces were made into spectacles; this was dreadful for those who wore them, for they could see nothing either rightly or justly. At all this the wicked demon laughed till his sides shook—it tickled him so to see the mischief he had done. There were still a number of these little fragments of glass floating about in the air, and now you shall hear what happened with one of them."
Sounds familar, doesn't it? Just take out the demon and add Maerlyn, take out God and add in Gan, and viola! Instant Dark Tower backstory!
Second...Jonas's backstory was horrible. He is a human villain, not a supernatural one. Adding supernatural causes to his human evil makes him that much less interesting. The initial idea, that he hates Gunslingers because he failed on his test and was thus sent west a failure, worked just fine. It was interesting, a dark parallel to Roland if you will. Making him evil because he stuck his foot on an EEEVILLL mirror takes that all away.
And if anything, King did a MUCH better making the Rainbow frightening in Wizard and Glass with how it twisted Rhea, how it was addictive and only showed horribile things. Ten times more effective than anything Furth did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiedark76
I just don't get it when people complain about the way the comics are written. In the first Arc (Gunslinger Born) people were complaining that it was too much like Wizard and Glass and they felt cheated when they bought it. Then when the other Arcs of the comics came out people complained that it was nothing like the Dark Tower books. :pullhair: It seems that you just can't please anybody! :arg:
People's problems with the comics aren't what you think they are. I don't think ANYONE had a problem with it adapting W&G or expanding on new material--it was how it was executed.
07-13-2009 06:19 PM
MonteGss
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGhostface
Jonas's backstory was horrible. He is a human villain, not a supernatural one. Adding supernatural causes to his human evil makes him that much less interesting. The initial idea, that he hates Gunslingers because he failed on his test and was thus sent west a failure, worked just fine. It was interesting, a dark parallel to Roland if you will. Making him evil because he stuck his foot on an EEEVILLL mirror takes that all away.
And if anything, King did a MUCH better making the Rainbow frightening in Wizard and Glass with how it twisted Rhea, how it was addictive and only showed horribile things. Ten times more effective than anything Furth did.
I agree 100% The mirror bullshit really ticked me off.
On a side note...
IMO, the first two arcs were very nice and I could even accept the minor changes from established canon that may have happened. This last arc...in addition to the horrible drawings (Jae, come back), the story was pretty crappy.
07-13-2009 07:51 PM
CyberGhostface
I really liked the second arc when I read it. Its the only arc thus far that I thought worked. I'm not crazy about the Crimson King on further retrospection, but overall, it was the closest to what I thought the Dark Tower comics should be.
07-14-2009 07:48 AM
pathoftheturtle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainslinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGhostface
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle
You're referring to his afterward to The Long Road Home, right? I also felt that, at that moment at least, he sounded like a major prick.
I actually haven't read the trade for that yet...could you pull up the quote? He may have said it twice. I remember reading it in an interview.
I think it was in one of the back sections of one of the individual comics too.
Yes, the final issue of the arc. I hadn't actually looked at it for a while, and now that I do, I guess that calling him a prick was maybe overstating things. Still, I do not like his attitude. He makes it sound as though Stephen King can do no wrong, and flatly states that if SK approves his work, "I absolutely do not care what anybody else thinks." What really bothers me is when he says that people criticize his dialog, but give examples that were drawn right from King's novels, and that this proves that fans are too hard to please. He's obviously ignoring the fact that putting a line into a different context will naturally alter the effect... which is no surprise, since the comics clearly show his insensitivity to that fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiedark76
...Using the Wizards Rainbow on Jonas just makes the other parts of the Wizards Rainbow seem more important and they have more of an impact on the story. The Wizards Rainbow also seems more frightening; instead of just being some vague object that was just mentioned as a legend. ...
:arg: Didn't you see my link? How come there's never a topic cop around when you need one? :P
*sigh* What you are saying is exactly what my problem is with it. Making the Rainbow and the wizard more important and more frightening (read: more powerful) means that they have more of an impact on the story, which imbalances the whole Dark Tower plot structure. This is not a good thing. <_<
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGhostface
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiedark76
I just don't get it when people complain about the way the comics are written. In the first Arc (Gunslinger Born) people were complaining that it was too much like Wizard and Glass and they felt cheated when they bought it. Then when the other Arcs of the comics came out people complained that it was nothing like the Dark Tower books. :pullhair: It seems that you just can't please anybody! :arg:
People's problems with the comics aren't what you think they are. I don't think ANYONE had a problem with it adapting W&G or expanding on new material--it was how it was executed.
There's some truth to that, cyber, but it also is a fact that you cannot please everyone... if you ever start to think that NO ONE has a problem with any particular fact of any kind, think again; it's a big world, man.
The point though, pixie, is that your argument is fallacious. Editors and writers constantly have to set priorities, regardless of the fact that there will always be some group in dissent. Knowing this fact, it is still possible to rate their overall strategy.:orely:
07-14-2009 08:00 AM
turtlex
Gotta just say here... If Stephen King approved of my writing, which was based on Stephen King's characters and works... I'd pretty much not care what anyone else thought either. I mean, hello?
07-14-2009 11:25 AM
CyberGhostface
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlex
Gotta just say here... If Stephen King approved of my writing, which was based on Stephen King's characters and works... I'd pretty much not care what anyone else thought either. I mean, hello?