Gan=God? (Not a religious discussion) **Spoilers**

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Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker

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Originally Posted by pathoftheturtle

If Gan is not God then what is Gan? If the Dark Tower is not Gan then what is the Dark Tower? Seriously, maybe someone could explain details of alternative theory.
Some people believe in a conscious Being who judges between good and evil. Other people believe in an unconscious Force that maintains karmic balance. But why should these groups have to argue? Just what difference does it make?

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It makes all the difference in all universes to some people.

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Well, yeah, but fabric softener makes all the difference to SOME people. lol
The question is "Why?" ... exactly what is the difference? If an unconsciousness has enough complexity to do what consciousness does then you can distinguish the two how?
I don't think I get your point, unless you're suggesting that what's important about this can't be put into words.

I know this isn't supposed to really be a religious discussion, but I believe that God is a loving and forgiving God. Soooooooo therefore, he can't really be evil, can he?

Is it good to forgive evil?
If God is all good, and God created everything, does it mean that nothing that exists is evil?
I'm actually not so worried that we're going off-topic too far into religious philosophy, because I think that how Gan can permit the bad things that happen in the world is just what Roland wanted to find out. This is still religious themes of TDT as far as I can tell. What more concerns me is that we're going to wander off onto TDT questions covered in other Mid-World threads.

I must admit that I ask this from the motive of trying to account for the ending. --

If God is perfect in justice then He always follows all of His own laws of righteousness.
So is God the mind that governs the law or is God the law that governs the mind?
Did personality create idealism or did the ideal create the personal?

I always thought that God created the universe, and the universe and all in conception were inherently good. However, he gave us free will, so he lets us mess up stuff if we want to, but he is ultimately forgiving. So the whole concept of the tower degenerating, I would think is because it was a construct - rather that be "man"made or God-made I'm not sure - and if it truly holds the universes together, I would think God (or Gan what have you) would want to keep "allowing" happy coincidences to happen to allow for it to be saved.

I think it's good to forgive evil. It takes a deity to actually be able to make one forget it, but you can forgive. You can endlessly forgive, but as far as us mere mortals, that doesn't mean that we have to keep letting more evil into our lives and be fools.

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Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker

I know this isn't supposed to really be a religious discussion, but I believe that God is a loving and forgiving God. Soooooooo therefore, he can't really be evil, can he?

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Just shooting spitballs here, but if God is the "ALL Powerful" and has a plan and is not evil, why would he allow EVIL to exist or have any impact on his plan? Why would "God" in his infinite wisdom allow for pedophiles, for instance? Just curious.

Edit: I am very well versed in the "free-will" argument, but it doesn't really seem to hold up here. You simply cannot have your cake and eat it. Not a "believer either way" just illustrating things I suppose.

:doh: You see? Now this is like the topic of my thread ka=Gan? which I had really hoped would take off. Basically, to start, we'd need to make sure that we're clear on the meaning of good and evil.

And then this --

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Originally Posted by LadyHitchhiker

... the whole concept of the tower degenerating, I would think is because it was a construct - rather that be "man"made or God-made I'm not sure...

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would help move Was the tower ever under threat? forward.

Perhaps because it is not in human's nature to remain good? We need the struggle in order to find goodness? Without evil, how can we be good?

You see what I mean then? That goes to the question of what the threat to the Tower means. If the Tower represents Gan's connection to creation, then Roland's task is to maintain humanity's chance to be saved from ourselves rather than to save Gan from us. We should try to settle here whether Gan's connection to creation actually is what it represents, then crossover to work more on the topic of whether what it does to the timestream in the books somehow serves the greater good or just adds to mankind's problems.

Also bear in mind that demons and superhuman evils appear to have more real power over the worlds of TDT than what they're allowed according to Christian doctrine.

I absolutely agree with that statement. For some reason, the baddies have a lot more power over these worlds... Perhaps because it is not OUR Earth, not OUR world?