"Thee's a good man, Roland of Gilead." *SERIOUS spoilers*

Rosa says it to Roland some days before the wolves come.
I read this book before as well but this was the first time I had to stop for minutes at this line.
Roland has never been told a good man before.
I would like to ask you what you think Rosalita herself meant by it. And why did she say it?
I think Rosa is a true-hearted woman and she is wise as well. She isn't a teenager girl in love... if she says something that's how she feels and she has good reasons.
Did she really think Roland was a good man? Did she say it because she was so thankful? Somehow I feel saving the children wasn't the only reason for saying it. And she knew how much Roland was obsessed with the Tower.

thank you for bringing it up - it's one of my favorite moments, and one of the most important, too

She says that because she sees him as a good man, and because he is a good man. I frankly don't know what else could be asked of him besides what he already is and what he has already done; if he isn't good, who the hell is?

*hugs Jean* It's good to know you feel the same way.
Do you think it meant a lot to Roland? Or did he forget it quickly?

I think it meant everything to him. He had never even heard anything like that before, and if not for that fabulous woman, would never have heard it in the future, no matter what he did. I will have to re-read the New York (tet corporation) part, but as far as I remember, while appreciating him saving the world and all that, nobody guessed to say anything as simple as "you're a good man".

The way he reacted... it was so modest and silent. He didn't show at all how much it meant him. It's not so surprising, it's Roland.

I don't think Roland forgets things, and I especially feel that he wouldn't have let this go.

Roland is someone who accepts his own limitations, and this is such a heartfelt compliment, that it had to have meant something to him, so he'd not have just let it go.

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Originally Posted by Letti

Did she really think Roland was a good man? Did she say it because she was so thankful? Somehow I feel saving the children wasn't the only reason for saying it. And she knew how much Roland was obsessed with the Tower.

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I think she really thought it, yes. Like you said she is a wise woman and saw goodness in him. I don't think she knew about his history and didn't know that sometimes Roland can be both good and bad.

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Originally Posted by turtlex

I don't think Roland forgets things

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Except we know differently from early on in the series because the world is moving on, he does forget things. This I don't think he would forget altogether.

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Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King

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Originally Posted by turtlex

I don't think Roland forgets things

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Except we know differently from early on in the series because the world is moving on, he does forget things. This I don't think he would forget altogether.

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Excellent point.

I guess I didn't mean "forget" but really sort of that is wasn't something he'd just let pass and put out of his mind.

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Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King

Except we know differently from early on in the series because the world is moving on, he does forget things.

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Yes, but he also says at some point something to the effect of "even the past is in motion" so maybe he doesn't forget moreso than what he might remember just didn't happen anymore in the now-altered past. :orely:

That's what I think, too. Certainly doesn't look like a forgetful type to me.

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Originally Posted by R_of_G

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Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King

Except we know differently from early on in the series because the world is moving on, he does forget things.

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Yes, but he also says at some point something to the effect of "even the past is in motion" so maybe he doesn't forget moreso than what he might remember just didn't happen anymore in the now-altered past. :orely:

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Yeah, good point Jayson. Gold star for you and a Scratch N' Sniff(tm) sticker.

:clap:
As it's coming from you, I hesitate to ask what the scent of the sticker might be. :panic:

:grouphug: Strawberry.

I think she just said he's a good man cos he gave her lots of orgasms.

"OOOOOOOOoooooooh! Thee's a good man Roland!
Now, where's the cat sphincter oil, if it do ya?"

Sorry, trust me to lower the tone...

I think she told him he's a good man, first because she believes it, (what with his aiding the villagers and all), and because she is genuinely good at reading people. I think she also might have said it to remind him too. She must know there is a lot of darkness in him, and all gunslingers (remember how many of the villagers feared them as much as they welcomed their aid.) and I think maybe she recognized he was partly affected by his past too. (Sure he's a practical guy and seldom lives in the past but part of his hardness and apparent lack of feeling is due to the pain and deeds of the past.) Maybe it was her way of giving him a poke (not that kind of poke... ooh my dirty mind) and saying, "You're all right bucko."

Maybe she said he was a good man because he was a good man then, and he was at that time noble, and not sacrificing his friends for the tower? I couldn't see her calling him a good man during the whole drop-Jake-time period.

As for him not saying anything, sure he was humbled by what she said, but maybe he couldn't say anything because also he didn't see himself that way. Somewhere in the mighty series, I will paraphrase, he says that he knew he would forsake all for the tower.

I wish he had stopped then. She would have accepted him and they may have become happy if he could have forgotten the tower.

i hate this thread.

because the sad thing is, as i don my asbestos suit and prepared for the war, roland is not a good man. he's a rapist and a murderer. he's a child-killer and a myopic son-of-a-bitch who would willingly destroy everyone in his path to get what he wants, i.e. the tower.

that doesn't mean i don't love him, but i see him for who he is. he is gifted, he is talented, he is alone, he is fearsome, he is brilliant, he is arrogant, he is lonely, he is sad, he is afraid, he is murderous, he is willful, he is myopic, he is stranded, he is pitiful. but he's not a good man. not yet. but he will be, someday he will be.

Spoiler:

and i think this cycle shows that day is coming soon.

let the flaming begin. :lol:

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Originally Posted by turtlesong

that doesn't mean i don't love him, but i see him for who he is. he is gifted, he is talented, he is alone, he is fearsome, he is brilliant, he is arrogant, he is lonely, he is sad, he is afraid, he is murderous, he is willful, he is myopic, he is stranded, he is pitiful. but he's not a good man. not yet. but he will be, someday he will be.

Spoiler:

and i think this cycle shows that day is coming soon.

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I totally agree.
(although I cant remember him raping anyone...?)

And the key to the whole shebang is what I bolded in turtlesong's quote.
The man is working towards becoming good.
He's headed there, but aint made it yet.

Here I go about to sound like Forrest Gump , because I think it is both.
Rosalita seems to have an ability to see Roland for all he is, and love
him all the more for it. Roland is as good as anyone in that he is on
a path to wards himself, and what could be better than self realization
while saving all of existence?

As I don't believe in objective good or bad (or objective anything else for that matter) I'd say it's all a matter of perspective. From Rosa's perspective, he's a good man. He is standing up for the children (and the adults) of the Calla, risking his own life to fight the Wolves. To Rosa, these are the actions of a good man.

I don't think it matters that we know more about Roland's past than she does. Her statement was reflective of her specific feelings about the Roland she knows, not an overall final judgment of his character based on every event since he left Gilead.

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Originally Posted by ladysai

(although I cant remember him raping anyone...?)

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I suspect ts is referring to what Roland did to Sylvia Pittson with his gun. I can certainly see where that can be interpreted as rape.

Interesting thread and discussion.

Yes, Roland is a good man. A determined man can still be a good man. A good man can still make mistakes.

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Originally Posted by R_of_G

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Originally Posted by ladysai

(although I cant remember him raping anyone...?)

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I suspect ts is referring to what Roland did to Sylvia Pittson with his gun. I can certainly see where that can be interpreted as rape.

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Ah.
I forgot about that.
(The Gunslinger is one book of the series I have seldom read.)

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Originally Posted by turtlesong

i hate this thread.

because the sad thing is, as i don my asbestos suit and prepared for the war, roland is not a good man. he's a rapist and a murderer. he's a child-killer and a myopic son-of-a-bitch who would willingly destroy everyone in his path to get what he wants, i.e. the tower.

that doesn't mean i don't love him, but i see him for who he is. he is gifted, he is talented, he is alone, he is fearsome, he is brilliant, he is arrogant, he is lonely, he is sad, he is afraid, he is murderous, he is willful, he is myopic, he is stranded, he is pitiful. but he's not a good man. not yet. but he will be, someday he will be.

Spoiler:

and i think this cycle shows that day is coming soon.

let the flaming begin. :lol:

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As Jayson said, it's a matter of perspective, although I put different meaning in these words: unlike him, I, being a Christian, do believe in objective good and bad (and lots of other things objective, for that matter http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ear_wink-1.gif), and that forms my perspective.

A man, in this light, does not amount to the sum of his actions, and the soul is bigger than its state taken in every particular moment. We are not what we did, and we are not what we were yesterday; true repentance is a concept that is very easy to misunderstand and ridicule, but if there's a book where the meaning and the emotional constituent of repentance is made clear, it's the Dark Tower. If you remember how Roland felt about what he did, I don't know how you still can call him a child-killer (as for him being a rapist, I frankly don't know what is meant - my memory may fail me, though; as for him being a murderer - well, you might call so Joan of Arc, too, or any soldier). I hate the elitist, Ubermensch idea of gunslingers with all my heart, but all Roland was doing during the whole series was overcoming it in his soul. Once again: if he is not a good man, who the fuck is?

Be careful with the spoilers, my friends. ;)

It's really interesting to read your feelings and opinions about this thing.
There is one thing I would like to add: Rosa said what she said because she herself is a really good person. And she is open. I am sure she always tries to see the good side of the people and although she felt the darkness in Roland she knew very well that nobody was perfect on this Earth.
We all have darkness inside the question is if we fight with it or give up and live with it.
I think there were periods in Roland's life when he didn't mind the darkness inside him moreover he was happy with it because it made him feel more alive and it gave him energy to go on, for example to hunt the Man in Black.
But during his long journey he realized how sick and rotten it ha made him inside and he started to fight with it. And it's a big thing.

(By darkness I mean all the native feelings and features of the one.)

Letti gives great thread. :harrier:

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Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King

Letti gives great thread. :harrier:

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:wtf: