That Thing, You Can Only Talk About If You've Finished the Series

Spoilers all around!!!

Spoilers all around!!!

Spoilers all around!!!

Let's imagine that Roland is standing at the Dark Tower. He has no idea what's waiting for him at the top of it. He thinks back of the long long past... the lost friends... the cheated lovers... the dirty bloody roads
If at that moment Roland could turn back time - what would he done in another way or what wouldn't he done at all? What are the things he would like to change? Are there anything at all he really minds?
Would he not drop Jake?
Would he run to save Susan's life?
Would he kill Rhea at the first glance?
Or he wouldn't change anything because he is there at last at the Tower and that's the most important.
What do you see in his soul and mind through your own soul and mind?
- Palaver -

I can't see Roland changing anything. He's way too pragmatic for that.

God, that's a tough one Letti! :wub:
(& I'm leaving work in a few minutes) :lol:
I'll have to give it som ethought.

Of course, the Roland who arrives at the Tower (on this or any Loop ?) probably would not know to change anything? He has arrived at the Tower & he's gonna go in!

So maybe the question is what we think he should have changed?
Hmmmm...

Of course he will go in but if he could jump a little in time... would he try to change about anything and go back very quickly?
For example not dropping Jake at the first time...
Of course it would change his fate and future but would he take the risk?
I might be way too optimistic but I think if he could... he wouldn't let Jake drop. Or... I don't know... let me think...

I think Roland's end justifies all the means. What I'm trying to say is that Roland would have never reached the Tower if all of those events hadn't transpired. That's what makes Roland who he is and consequently the Tower as well. I appreciate the question Letti, but I can't answer it apart from this significant aspect of the tale.

I understand your point but I can't agree, obscurejude.
I don't think there is only one way Roland can reach the Tower. There are many choices that can lead him to reach or not to reach.
I might be absolutely alone with these feelinsg but I don't there are only some things Roland would change if he could even if he had to take some risk.
I think he wouldn't drop Jake
and he would kill Rhea at their first meeting.
But for example I don't think he would save Susan.

Letti,

If Roland hadn't dropped Jake, he would have never discovered Walter's twin, Jack Mort. Also, they may have never discovered the rose. And Susannah would have never fulfilled the prophecy of Mordred (not sure I really care about that one but its a big part of the plot). I am not saying that Roland doesn't feel regret, but he is part of a much bigger picture- a purple blade of grass amongst an infinitude of galaxies. Not all of this was Roland's volition, we can't leave out Ka as much as we may want to. (see my signature)

Dropping Jake was a brutal part of his damned existence. (I think Matt might agree with this).

I know I know but I still say that he could have found the Tower even if he hadn't let Jake fall. The way I see it it's absolutely possible.

I'm also fairly confident that Roland has no regrets. It was a quote that R of G had in his signature for a while, about Roland's advice that one must die satisfied even if that means sacrificing personal happiness. Roland was sworn. Period. I don't think he would label any of those things as "mistakes." As much as Roland hated dropping Jake, he still wandered several times throughout the subsequent novels about whether he would do it again. Also, Jake leaves the Pere to be killed by vampires, understanding that it was Roland's wish and that ultimately duty is more important than anything. A brutal lesson to be sure, but one that I think Jake understood in some part as a result of being dropped.

How is it absolutely possible Letti? Maybe you can convert me.

while i am still not sure i can explain why, i still feel that dropping jake was a necessity in the creation of the three doors on the beach. roland made some sort of deal with the oracle, a quid pro quo, the sacrifice for the ability to draw his three. it was a brutal decision, but one i will always see as necessary.

Jayson, we have an ally!!!!!! jude, welcome to Roland's defense team!!!!

:rofl:


Jayson, he wouldn't even know of his ability to draw without the palaver with the MIB. The oracle, and I pasted the direct quote in another thread, says that he must either sacrifice Jake, or cry off the Tower

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Originally Posted by TerribleT

Jayson, we have an ally!!!!!! jude, welcome to Roland's defense team!!!!

:rofl:


Jayson, he wouldn't even know of his ability to draw without the palaver with the MIB. The oracle, and I pasted the direct quote in another thread, says that he must either sacrifice Jake, or cry off the Tower

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Thanks TerribleT!:rock: I see that hand, is there another? I say gawdbomb!

YES!!!! Jayson/R of G

i think this is gonna get a bit rough...

yes indeed T, obscurejude makes a great addition to the Roland Deschain Defense Fund.

If he could turn back time, he would probably pass on the mayo!

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Originally Posted by She-Oy

If he could turn back time, he would probably pass on the mayo!

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:lol: i love that scene!

All I can think of when I see this thread title is of Cher singing it...

"If Roland could turn back time..
if he could find some way
He'd take back all the worlds that I saved for him
and he'd say...."

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Originally Posted by Letti

Of course he will go in but if he could jump a little in time... would he try to change about anything and go back very quickly?...

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Ah OK , gotcha!

Then my answer is Yes. I believe Roland wit the knowlege of what really happens in the Tower would go back.
I believe he would not drop Jake. He only dropped him the first time because he believed he would not attain the Palaver with Walter unless he did so. The Roland who survived that Palaver would not make the same decision imho.
& yes, it would change at least some of what happened after, but that would not stop him attaining the Tower - it would just change his course somewhat. (obscurejude - I'm not sure I get the reference to Mort, what specifically would it ultimately matter had Roland not met Mort?).

Letti - I believe it might well be that he would also save Susan. (Certainly I would not see him make a deliberate choice not to save her - given the possibility of doing it.) He might well then forsake her to quest for the Tower (as he had decided to do in Mejis) but I believe he would have saved her first.

And yes, given the choice he would definitely have forgone the mayonaise!

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Originally Posted by ManOfWesternesse

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Originally Posted by Letti

Of course he will go in but if he could jump a little in time... would he try to change about anything and go back very quickly?...

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Ah OK , gotcha!

Then my answer is Yes. I believe Roland wit the knowlege of what really happens in the Tower would go back.
I believe he would not drop Jake. He only dropped him the first time because he believed he would not attain the Palaver with Walter unless he did so. The Roland who survived that Palaver would not make the same decision imho.
& yes, it would change at least some of what happened after, but that would not stop him attaining the Tower - it would just change his course somewhat. (obscurejude - I'm not sure I get the reference to Mort, what specifically would it ultimately matter had Roland not met Mort?).

Letti - I believe it might well be that he would also save Susan. (Certainly I would not see him make a deliberate choice not to save her - given the possibility of doing it.) He might well then forsake her to quest for the Tower (as he had decided to do in Mejis) but I believe he would have saved her first.

And yes, given the choice he would definitely have forgone the mayonaise!

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Thank you, Brian. Now I am not alone with it. Yeah, I totally agree about Jake... but about Susan... yeah, I guess you must be right... but I will think about it.

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Originally Posted by Letti

..but about Susan... yeah, I guess you must be right... but I will think about it.

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Oh, there's no 'must' about it! :lol: It's just my own thought.

I think that once Roland actually sees the Tower, there is nothing else on his mind. Ever. Roland certainly does grow during the saga but the moment that the Tower is in his sights, he is absolutely compelled to finish it out and nothing like regret or second chances is on his mind.

Its just a little somthing ive been thinking on, ive talked to mark8888 about. It seemed a little strange to me that roland didnt really express his suprise when he opened the door and saw the desert again. I mean we all assume that Roland cant remember that hes in a loop, so does anyone think he picked up on it this time, maby now that he pickled up on it he can finaly end his journey?

Your thoughts my friends.

There are countless other threads that discuss the ending.