It's not really a sequel. Also, who are these fucking guys is the whole point. These are below-D-list characters for the most part (with the obvious exception of King Shark and The Thinker).
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It's not really a sequel. Also, who are these fucking guys is the whole point. These are below-D-list characters for the most part (with the obvious exception of King Shark and The Thinker).
I was pumped for WW to but lost a lot of excitement I had from the first one. I think Wig is too comedic for the role and it’s all I see. Plus she looks terrible and over CGI’d as the Cheeta. I’ll reserve judgment cause the first one is so well done. But out of everything I’ve seen... Batman is really getting me excited. The more I watch that trailer the more I become so.
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I liked The Batman trailer except for the final shot - Batman looked a little too "emo teen" for my liking. Maybe it was just that one shot, though.
HBJ
I've never heard of either of those characters. :redface:
I'm not sure I understand the point of introducing a bunch of characters most non-comic fans have never even heard of. It's exactly what they did in the first SS movie as well as Birds of Prey (which I still haven't seen yet). Unless they actually planning on going somewhere with the characters eventually or they are just there to eventually be killed off (sort of like the entire squad in Deadpool 2) then why are they there?
I'm still of the opinion that the DCEU is a mess and they don't know how to fix it.
Suicide Squad looks dope. It has the possibility of actually being good with a director who understands characters like these.
Batman is going to be great, no doubt in my mind. In Reeves We Trust.
I'm sure WW84 will end up being good but I can't take Wiig as Cheetah seriously. It looks so goofy.
Yes the whole point is to kill them off. Why introduce well known characters and kill them off? Even most comic book readers won't know who these characters are. We're all here for Harley anyway. That's the concept of the Suicide Squad, they're expendable.
And the DCEU is actually in a really great place right now. It's not a mess. The multiverse idea is pure genius and I'm so happy they're doing it. They're not only connecting all the current movies, they're connecting every previous DC movie. It's what Crisis did on the CW, now The Flash will do that on the big screen and heads will explode.
This is why we can have Leto's Joker and Phoenix's Joker, and Batfleck and Pattinson, all at the same time. It's brilliant!
I think Suicide Squad looks awesome. I'm really looking forward to it. I also think the majority of the characters in the character spotlight are there to be killed off or just cameos. That's just way too many characters to be important characters in the movie. On top of that I don't really think there's anything wrong with having a all these characters no one has ever heard of. I mean no one mainstream knew who the Guardians of the Galaxy were before that movie, and look how popular those characters are now.
I'm stoked for Batman, though I'll agree that last scene was a bit much. I kind wish Pattinson had a more "rich guy" hair cut. Closer to what he looks like in most of the pictures if you google him.
WW84 also looks amazing. I was torn on watching the trailer though, as I know I'm going to see it so why give too much away at this point? I don't have the problem with Wiig like everyone else seems to have, as I haven't really followed her career all that much. I think I've only seen 3 of her movies, one of which was The Martian, and it wasn't exactly a comedic role.
Mae, what you interpret as brilliant storytelling, I see as desperate flailing to try to regain audience trust by cheap fanservice and appealing to nostalgia. But it can be both - it depends on the execution, and whether DC will learn to trust its directors' visions without studio interference.
The critical movies in my mind are the Snyder Cut, WW84 and The Batman. They will make or break DC going forward. DC have the opportunity to redeem Justice League, reinforce the goodwill they gained from WW in WW84, and establish a strong new Batman series. The other films are less important - the DCEU won't stand or fall based on their success or failure.
The one thing I fear about The Batman, based on rumors, is that Pattinson isn't given enough room to establish himself as Batman; that the multiverse aspect will overshadow his identity as that character. As much as I want to see Affleck and Keaton back as Batman, they have to be little more than cameos if Pattinson is to own the role going forward.
ETA: I would add The Flash to that list of critical movies, but it's out a ways.
HBJ
They aren't going to be in this movie as far as I'm aware. They're only going to be in the Flash movie. We're also under the assumption that Pattinson's movie isn't just a one off. We need to get out of this idea that these actors are going to be in the role for a long time like the way Marvel has done it. That isn't what DC is doing with it's multiverse. It's using the multiverse to tell stories outside of the Justice League story continuity and using The Flash / The Multiverse to give them room to do it. Think of it this way, unless they do something weird with The Flash, Pattinson's Batman probably won't ever be on screen with the Justice League movie cast. In that universe we have Batfleck.
This is how I am taking it. AND loving it. Like the Joker. I hear we may get another but in no way connected. Reeves has said he plans to do three to which I love... no need to connect BUT if it felt right they could I guess? Im a fan of the different route..why copy Marvel?
Ah, okay, got it. Sorry, my mistake; for some reason I was thinking Affleck and Keaton were showing up earlier than The Flash.
Well, if the Pattinson movie is separate and non-DCEU, like Phoenix's Joker is, then that makes a lot more sense. Establishing Pattinson as Batman in his own movie first - regardless of what future movies he's in - is a solid move. If they are just using the multiverse concept to explain why the non-DCEU movies exist, I can buy that. I don't think it's strictly necessary to justify it - it doesn't make any real difference to the way the films are made - but if it gives DC the freedom to free themselves from the constraints of continuity without fans going ballistic, that can be a good thing.
HBJ
Oh, I agree completely. A while back I posted saying that I think DC shouldn't be building a cinematic universe at all - they should just do standalone series and focus on story and characters, without the constraints of a shared framework.
I see now that that is effectively what they're doing - but calling it a multiverse as a way to evolve from a declared shared universe into fragmented narratives. Rather than connecting all the movies, a multiverse gives DC license to continue to *disconnect* movies from a central narrative while still appearing to meet the shared universe expectations of fans.
However, I would not say that "DC is in a really good place" ... yet. Execution is everything. They appear to have a plan, but they've had plans before. DC have yet to redeem themselves to get into that "good place".
HBJ
Yeah The Flash in 2022 will explain everything, I'm sure. I don't know if any of you watched the DC FanDome event, but I streamed all eight hours on Saturday and everyone at DC was heavy with the multiverse concept, especially the big wigs. Obviously, this is nothing new to comic-book fans but when general movie audiences are used to the Marvel formula, that all these movies are installments in one ongoing saga, DC didn't start out that way and suffered as a result, and now there is an in-universe way of explaining it. You can think of it as fan-service or backtracking or what have you, but I do believe it's a brilliant storytelling device.
When people see Ezra Miller's Flash that we've come to know over these last few years in the Snyder universe interacting with Ben Affleck's Batman, getting his new suit, going into the Speed Force, and emerging on Earth-89 and meeting Michael Keaton's Batman in the Tim Burton universe (just my idea of what could happen), I cannot wait to see people's heads explode! I just hope they actually get Tim Burton on board or at least some people from that production so we can get accurate portrayals of Burton's Gotham for that added nostalgia effect.
Once people understand the concept, that Bale's Batman also exists in this multiverse, maybe they reference the Nolan Earth somehow as well, everyone will be more on board with what DC is doing. Because not only are all the past DC movies canon to the current DCEU, so are TV shows, as evidenced by The Flash (Miller) appearing on The Flash on the CW. I actually hope they revisit that scene from Ezra's point of view, since it's possible it's happening during the movie.
And if you did miss DC FanDome, here's a good discussion that goes over a lot of what happened:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G7GpLVqrAI
The multiverse idea is just a lazy way to tie everything together. It was lazy in the comics and it's lazy in the movies. There is no need for Burton's Batman to connect to Nolan's Batman to connect to Batfleck to connect to however many Batpeople come in the future. Make good movies with good stories and DC hasn't shown they can do that consistently. Connecting them all via the multiverse doesn't make them better.
I think it’s a fun idea. Im for giving them a shot. Getting old actors back like they have been doing isn’t lazy. It’s kinda brilliant. Hopefully they are able to pull some more in too. The past has been a bit shaky but I see a potential bright future with this.
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Getting old actors back is great if you liked those actors in those roles. I personally don't like Keaton or Affleck as Batman. I thought Ezra's Flash was a joke and have no desire to see him continue in the role. I would have preferred Grant Gustin in the movies as I like what he does with Flash in the TV series. Shazam was great and I look forward to that continuing with him eventually meeting up with the Rock's Black Adam. That was a good movie with a good story and it doesn't need to be connected to the multiverse for that to be true. It won't hurt that movie being connected to the multiverse but Shazam could be fine as a trilogy on it's own and never interacting with Superman, Batman, etc.
But many others loved those actors. I did. That’s all I’m saying... because you aren’t a fan and think it’s lazy... someone like me think it’s great and exciting time for DC. I mean, we might as well say that Avengers was lazy after the snap then too no?
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It feels strange to say this out loud, but there is a possibility - however remote - that DC could be in the drivers' seat for cinematic universes in 2020 and beyond. Given their cinematic track record so far, that would be quite a feat.
Think about it - Marvel storytelling has essentially reached its apex. Everything that comes after for them now will always be in the Infinity Saga's shadow, especially with Stark and Rogers out of the picture. DC rebirthing their franchise to provide something uniquely different to what Marvel was offering last generation could be enough for people to flock to their films in droves. They're not hindered by the loss of their biggest characters -Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman- they're still loaded in the clip, ready to be fired with precision.
But but but, everyone has a brilliant idea, the execution is something else entirely. This is where DC have floundered and Marvel have thrived. If DC can deliver on the potential of the multiverse, people will forget about all the false starts and embrace this new direction.
I have no problem with the people who love the DC movies that I don't or think the multiverse is great. The snap could be seen as lazy because it took a lot of the tension out of whoever ashed out of existence because you knew they were coming back. You might not have known who exactly was going to die but you knew a select few who's deal were up weren't returning. I don't think every Marvel movie was great. Black Panther was more hype than good movie. I wish every DC movie could be as good as Shazam was but even the ones like Wonder Woman and Aquaman, that were better than BvS, Justice League, and Suicide Squad, were still mediocre to me. I wish the Harley Quinn movie was as good as the HBO Max series. More power to the people who like the DC movies and I hope you like the upcoming ones too. I just wish I could say the same.