Flatsigned and Stephen King? (All threads regarding Flatsigned)

[turtlex]

I completely agree that there's a degree of responsibility on the BUYER... which is why I come to this forum and read and listen to the advice given here by our members...

... however, Tim/Flatsigned should really accept that people are going to question him if they see an issue.

I would think that replaced end-paper do, indeed, lower the value of a book.

As a professional bookseller, he's got responsibility as well.

[Calla_Wolf]

I would think that replaced end-paper do, indeed, lower the value of a book.

As a professional bookseller, he's got responsibility as well.

Yes........as far as it goes....

But if I were selling that particular volume I wouldn't know that the endpapers had been replaced. In fact, how many of us here WOULD know?? Hutch is an exception simply because his knowledge is second to none.

I just can't bring myself to blame Tim / Flatsigned for the omissions in this listing...because if Dave hadn't pointed the replaced endpapers out, not one of us would have been any the wiser (excepting, perhaps, Bob).

[turtlex]

Well, I kind of think we would know ... cause most of us would have come here and asked about the book, etc. But that's just me. I don't really make a move, collecting-wise, without input from the people here.

Oh, and I don't blame Tim either, but personally - he's the professional and if it were me, I'd have pulled the auction and re-written it with the updated information, making it clear.

On top of that - the Flatsigned response to me via email was that they weren't sure the papers had been replaced, or if they had, it was good job. Um, okay.

[carlosdetweiller]

I just can't bring myself to blame Tim / Flatsigned for the omissions in this listing...because if Dave hadn't pointed the replaced endpapers out, not one of us would have been any the wiser (excepting, perhaps, Bob).

No, I missed it too. I felt silly when Dave pointed it out but, honestly, I didn't catch it either.

[biomieg]

I just can't bring myself to blame Tim / Flatsigned for the omissions in this listing...because if Dave hadn't pointed the replaced endpapers out, not one of us would have been any the wiser (excepting, perhaps, Bob).

No, I missed it too. I felt silly when Dave pointed it out but, honestly, I didn't catch it either.

Stuff like this is one of the reasons I love this site. I went and checked my copy of Carrie, just to make sure. Lo and behold, it does have the 'clayback' endpapers. I could have had a tweaked $300 book sitting on my shelf without ever realizing it...

[Brice]

Okay, I wouldn't have known about the endpapers if Hutch hadn't pointed it out. I suspect most of us wouldn't and I think discussion of an auction (any auction) we have doubts or questions about is a good thing. I even think it's good to discuss if you have no intention of ever buying the item. That way we can all become more educated buyers overall. Based on his posts I honestly don't think Tim has represented himself well and he isn't someone I'd choose to do business with based on that alone, but I'm beginning to think maybe it's not such a good idea to have a thread dedicated solely to a specific seller. I think the other threads could serve the same function in a much better way. Of course this is just my personal opinion and shouldn't be construed to have anything to do with staff's or the site's.

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

but I'm beginning to think maybe it's not such a good idea to have a thread dedicated solely to a specific seller.


Some sellers deserve it. CD springs to mind.

(This thread was an amalgamation of several to do with flatsigned.)

[Brice]

I know and I agree they deserve it. Still...

[Rahfa]

I completely agree that there's a degree of responsibility on the BUYER... which is why I come to this forum and read and listen to the advice given here by our members...

... however, Tim/Flatsigned should really accept that people are going to question him if they see an issue.

I would think that replaced end-paper do, indeed, lower the value of a book.

As a professional bookseller, he's got responsibility as well.

I agree with you - and you were totally right to ask...I guess I felt the way I did because this thread had sort of semi-died out, and then it reared back up again. Like I said, I'm on board with your motivation, just seemed like piling on - but not from you or anyone personally; it was just the combination of it all.

As far as CD goes, because they actually PUBLISH the s/l editions we're complaining about, I feel differently about them. Flatsigned is a reseller, and we can do business with them or not, but at least we don't feel obligated to buy a book from them and then wait three years for shipment.

And...Like Matt said below - any comments against the site deserve and need a response.

[Sam]

As far as CD goes, because they actually PUBLISH the s/l editions we're complaining about, I feel differently about them. Flatsigned is a reseller, and we can do business with them or not, but at least we don't feel obligated to buy a book from them and then wait three years for shipment.

We agree on that Rahfa. Completely and absolutely!

[Matt]

My only stake in the conversation is comments about the site itself. I believe it is unwarranted even though this particular conversation has had its heated moments.

Capitalism means we buy from who we want so I'll leave that up to the individual and this site does not endorse either way.

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

No shill bidding on these. Good prices for the buyers...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-LTD-AMERICAN-SHORT-STORIES-Mint_W0QQitemZ140382895217QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiq uarian_Collectible?hash=item20af78fc71

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-LTD-AMERICAN-SHORT-STORIES-Mint_W0QQitemZ380207574172QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiq uarian_Collectible?hash=item5886232c9c

...and a King signature for $46.56

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-BEST-AMERICAN-SHORT-STORIES-Book_W0QQitemZ380204877639QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAntiq uarian_Collectible?hash=item5885fa0747

[Randall Flagg]

Wow. The last one is a very good deal.

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

This is a novel way to shill bid. Send an email to thousands on your email list asking them to bid on your books, and you will get a free book!

Email from Tim Miller:

All you have to do is phone Robin or Larry at 516-365-0600 and bid on five of the books below. Even if you get overbid, you still will get a FREE BOOK from me! I will even cover the costs of shipping for you. Thank YOU for bidding! The Auction ends THURSDAY Night. PHONE ROBIN or LARRY to BID at 516-365-0600.

[Randall Flagg]

Call collect.:P

[lophophoras]

Call collect.:P

LOL...

[Calla_Wolf]

This is a novel way to shill bid. Send an email to thousands on your email list asking them to bid on your books, and you will get a free book!

Email from Tim Miller:

All you have to do is phone Robin or Larry at 516-365-0600 and bid on five of the books below. Even if you get overbid, you still will get a FREE BOOK from me! I will even cover the costs of shipping for you. Thank YOU for bidding! The Auction ends THURSDAY Night. PHONE ROBIN or LARRY to BID at 516-365-0600.

Got to admit - I think it's a very clever way of generating business.

I don't see anything particularly wrong with it as a selling tactic.

[CurtSeattle]

This thread was/is some good reading! I'm bummed I missed that "Short Stories" signed book auction. GRRRR!

I have to say I disagree with Tim selling tactics to a certain extent, but I also do see some of the validity of it being a business and "marketing" in such a way to create success for said business.

In no way, do I agree with anything related to fakes or poor customer service related to fake signatures.

The sheer volume of sales lends itself to mistakes being made, so I understand that part, but, at the end of the day, if you advertise a legitimate signature on a particular book (and let's be honest...in this market, the signature and the particular book and quality ARE EVERYTHING!), then he should back it up when and if the book/signature don't live up to the ad's promises.

That is the "signature" ;) of a good business and why I won't buy from Mr. Miller (well unless it's a 1st/1st Carrie with a signature for $10 (I mean who cares if it's fake then?!?! hehe!).

Good reading though and I REALLY like the links to fake signatures and things of that nature!! Is there a stickied thread for those or is it just for FlatSigned's?

I see King signatures all the time that don't seem legit (not an expert, but I have stared at them for enough time feel like I can recognize the real deal), but then I read that his signature has evolved over time in other places (well mostly auctions which lends itself to me feeling they are fake ones on those auctions! haha!).

If his signature has evolved, I guess I should look that and see how it's changed or maybe I'm missing out on good deals that other people also pass on?

Confused I am. <--In my bad Yoda impression. :)

I'm still a newbie hear, but I really love this site and love rediscovered interest in Stephen King. Never had a dad growing up and we were too poor for a TV, so I just read all the time and I always admired him, so he kind of raised me!!

Curt

[Brice]

Check out the ebay bs thread in this section of the site. And King's sig has changed throughout the years. Everyone's does.

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

Looks like Flatsigned are up to their old tricks again.

Seller is Flatsigned - The Shining (signed) - Sold on 27 May for $940

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-1st-SHINING-Book-VERY-RARE-/380235518579?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item5887cd9273

The same book back on sale on 31 May - starting bid $1,750 - BIN $4,500. Same seller, Flatsigned.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-1st-SHINING-Book-VERY-RARE-/380238492236?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item5887faf24c

[jhanic]

Looks like identical ads, except for the price. I wonder who the buyer was on the first. :P

John

[Sam]

Looks like the same book to me, both have ended. Makes you wonder what happened to the first sale or if they just listed the same book on two auctions.

[Randall Flagg]

It could be a mistake listing the second auction, and thus it was closed-after the first sold.
Who can be sure?

[Dolan]

Maybe he "won" the first auction with a fake account just to bump up the price - ended up with the book anyway and tried to re-sell

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

Maybe he "won" the first auction with a fake account just to bump up the price - ended up with the book anyway and tried to re-sell

My thoughts exactly.

[lophophoras]

You guys know he dosen't do that.

:wtf:

[wizardsrainbow]

Tim Miller strikes again, this time with a signed Blockade Billy

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-1st-BLOCKADE-BILLY-Ephemera-Book-/130399030975?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item1e5c634ebf

[shibus]

It looks just like this.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-BLOCKADE-BILLY-SIGNED-STEPHEN-KING-TRUE-FIRST-/150452056489?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Fiction_Books&hash=item2307a431a9

[Sam]

What an odd co-inky-dink, huh. How absurdly odd that two different entities, from two different locations (San Pedro, CA, United States & Nashville, TN, United States), have the ONLY signed copy of Blockade Billy. Wonder how that happened. Keep in mind that the San Pedro auction ended on June 6 with zero bids.

Incidently, Greg, the San Pedro auction's last feedback was from a sale with you for the Dark Forces 25th Anniversary edition.

[shibus]

Good eye, And when I asked about the BB I was told the auction was cancelled (with 1 bid) after a change of mind. My guess: It was sold to Tim

[Sam]

Sounds very likely.

[wizardsrainbow]

I think that is correct. I was told that Larry Fire was able to "corner" Steve when he was in CA for an auction event. Larry put the book up on eBay and the educated guess is he sold it to Tim who is now selling it.

I was ASSURED that Steve did not sell any of his author copies.

[Pasiuk57]

I had the highest bid on it when it was cancelled. I spoke with Larry who told me he decided to not sell it. He told me he wanted to keep it.

[Sam]

Looks like that may have been a little fib there.

[Ari_Racing]

What is Fib?

[willie3]

fib (noun) a lie, an untruth (see flatsigned)

Karl

[lophophoras]

Looks like that may have been a little fib there.

Tim must have had something Larry really wanted/needed.....

[Sam]

In which case Larry would not have been keeping the Blockade Billy book, hence the belief that someone is not telling the entire truth.

[lophophoras]

You are right. It does reek of BS.

:nope:

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

So, Tim Miller has 2 signed copies of Blockade Billy? He has 2 seperate ebay listings. The signatures are a different color.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-1st-BLOCKADE-BILLY-Ephemera-Book-/380242693797?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item58883b0ea5

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-1st-BLOCKADE-BILLY-Ephemera-Book-/140417078857?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item20b1829649

[e_taylor]

The selling point that it is the first ever signed copy is kind of ridiculous. Good luck ever proving it; both now and when more copies are on the market.

[Sam]

The two sigs ARE different colors, but I would swear they are the exact signature. Someone else please take a hard look at them and see if you agree, or am I seeing things poorly. The two sigs look exact to me, even down to the placement.

[Clacke]

The two sigs ARE different colors, but I would swear they are the exact signature. Someone else please take a hard look at them and see if you agree, or am I seeing things poorly. The two sigs look exact to me, even down to the placement.

I was thinking the very same thing! Even though photographed from different angles, I can't see a difference! And the underline in both case starts through the centre of the word 'for'.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/flatsigned/blockade1.jpghttp://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/flatsigned/100_86450611.JPG

[lophophoras]

Looks like the same book but different angle and lighting.

[Rahfa]

The loops of the 'S' look slightly different...but I might be quibbling...I mean, if the argument is the same book listed under two listings, that's possible (and not totally unheard of)...but it's certainly a real signature regardless.

[gsvec]

I just think one's B&W and one's in color. Same sig, same book.

ETA: Or maybe it IS just the lighting. Either way, one book IMO.

[Cujo56]

I just pulled both of the images up on photoshop and zoomed waaaaay in.
They are definitely in the same spot. I also played with lighting, contrast,etc. to try to match up the the ink color. Didn't get it exact, but pretty close.
Neither is in B/W. You can see the coloring of the book cover in the pic on left.
IMHO, They're the same signature and book.
Nice catch Sam :thumbsup:

[Randall Flagg]

If they are the same book, I don't see why the different background. One BG has a wood table?, the other does not appear so.
Perhaps he has obtained more than one copy, and is using similar photos of the person)(s), King etc. for the ad, or the first photo is from the Larry Fire website (http://larryfire.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/stephen-king-presented-literary-award-at-the-15th-annual-los-angeles-public-library-awards-dinner/)

Last night my wife and I had the privilege to attend the 15th Annual Los Angeles Public Library Awards Dinner at the Hyatt Regency Century Plaza. The goal of the Dinner is to augment critical funding and proceeds from the event assist the Los Angeles Public Library in providing literacy programs, books, materials, activities and public access to the latest electronic information resources.
Stephen King was presented the prestigious Literary Award for his tremendous contribution to literature. We had an opportunity to meet with the author prior to the event, enjoy dinner with colleagues and then listen to King speak about his personal experiences with libraries.

http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/img_20301.jpg?w=450&h=675 (http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/img_20301.jpg)
At the cocktail party we had a small window to meet with my favorite author. I asked him about his future books; the Dark Tower sequel and Dr. Sleep (The Shining sequel) and whether they would come to fruition. King smiled coyly (but did not respond) and his agent quickly said that he would like to see them both happen. When I told King about my blog, THE FIRE WIRE, he joked that in Maine it would be pronounced, “THE FI-AH WI-AH”. Stephen was kind enough to sign my copy of “Blockade Billy” and shared that this was the first copy that he has signed publicly. He was quickly whisked away for photo opportunities with the Los Angeles high society.
, and the second is for a book in hand.
Lighting changes things-notice King is wearing a gray suit, but with different lighting at the podium, the suit appears brown-both pics are legit-tie pattern is the same, hair length and cut, glasses etc..

It's a mess.

[Sam]

I have no doubts that it is the same book, simply because of the signatures and the placement of those signatures. If they are two different books, I would say one is forged from the other's signature (I would also ask why they placed the second sig in the exact spot as the first). Expertly so, but the signatures are simply too similar for me to think anything else.

No, I really think it's just the same book.

[Rahfa]

I can't decipher what the issue or problem is here...what's being alleged?

[lophophoras]

One of the auctions was cancelled.

[Sam]

The only thing being alleged is that the signatures are the same signature. At least that's what I'm saying. Nothing more.

[Randall Flagg]

The question was, is Flatsigned conducting two auctions for only one book? If one of the auctions was canceled, it no longer matters much.

[JTurner]

hey guys, i am a recent former employee of tim millers, and am willing to shed light on what i saw while working there. i know last month, he sent off 95 pct of his inventory to National Book Auctions, closed his nashville office, and moved to dover or clarksville, tn. his nephew is doing auctions now, and the quality of them are very diminished. hes trying to get NBA to cut a check to him to for his books, because the inventory was getting stale.

also, i have some funny stories about him stalking stephen king.

[JTurner]

I too wonder what book.:orely:

Stephen King ordered a Zane Grey signed book from him I believe off of Abe. Funny thing is he didn't have the book at the time for some reason, so he had to go find one on his own. Then the cross country stalking started and Tim would send signed Red Sox stuff to his office, only to have it promptly returned. :scared:

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

Thanks for the info JT. Most interesting.

[jhanic]

Very interesting indeed!

John

[turtlex]

hey guys, i am a recent former employee of tim millers, and am willing to shed light on what i saw while working there. i know last month, he sent off 95 pct of his inventory to National Book Auctions, closed his nashville office, and moved to dover or clarksville, tn. his nephew is doing auctions now, and the quality of them are very diminished. hes trying to get NBA to cut a check to him to for his books, because the inventory was getting stale.

also, i have some funny stories about him stalking stephen king.

Hey JT, if we could ask ... why did you leave your employment with him?

And welcome to the site!

[carlosdetweiller]

also, i have some funny stories about him stalking stephen king.

This thread is starting to have some real potential.

[WeDealInLead]

http://www.gifanatics.com/files/Jackson_popcorn.gif

[Rahfa]

I too wonder what book.:orely:

Stephen King ordered a Zane Grey signed book from him I believe off of Abe. Funny thing is he didn't have the book at the time for some reason, so he had to go find one on his own. Then the cross country stalking started and Tim would send signed Red Sox stuff to his office, only to have it promptly returned. :scared:

Haha...that is kind of ridiculous...but on the other hand, you never can tell what will happen if you don't try. As long as he wasn't showing up knocking on SK's door, it's only absurd, not really creepy.

[Nerak]

http://www.gifanatics.com/files/Jackson_popcorn.gif

Sits down next to WeDealInLead and shares the popcorn. This show is getting good!

[JTurner]

hey guys, i am a recent former employee of tim millers, and am willing to shed light on what i saw while working there. i know last month, he sent off 95 pct of his inventory to National Book Auctions, closed his nashville office, and moved to dover or clarksville, tn. his nephew is doing auctions now, and the quality of them are very diminished. hes trying to get NBA to cut a check to him to for his books, because the inventory was getting stale.

also, i have some funny stories about him stalking stephen king.

Hey JT, if we could ask ... why did you leave your employment with him?

And welcome to the site!




Firstly, the sending of the Red Sox stuff was the least of the creepiness, he actually paid employees to follow King to Atlanta and Wisconsin to meet him at speaking events to get things signed. Specifically at the Wisconsin one, it was an event that said NO SIGNINGS on the ticket, but Tim and Co. proceeded to wait for King outside, apparently King was pretty pissed, he said he was exhausted and wouldn't sign anything. So much for the several G's spent on traveling from Nashville to Wisconsin.

Also, I do know for a fact he uses shill bidding, I actually know the user names on some of them. He tried very hard to keep it from me, but I wasn't born yesterday. But to his credit, as far as I know, when I was there he only used shill bidding if there was a mistake on the auction and thought it might be sold for less than he wanted. Still doesn't make it right.

As far as why I left, it had to do with the impending disaster I saw coming. Like I said, it was known that a majority of his inventory was very stale, so I had trouble finding things every week to list that would actually sell. For months, he would harp on the decision from the Imus was impending in May, and that Imus will have to cough up millions for the case. He didn't get a penny as far as I know.

A majority of his former employees apparently despise him, but I am just a bit indifferent, because I feel bad for him. He's an older guy, pissed off a lot of people, including every family member except the one currently doing his auctions.... and he is trying to retire but has to relieve debts to banks before that can happen. As far as I know, hes not part of the UACC anymore right? Anyway, I don't know what will happen to him, but continue to watch his auctions out of curiosity, not to buy, just to watch.

[Randall Flagg]

I can't get enough.

http://avatars.qkype.com/free-avatars/avatars/animated_214/bear_just_eating_animated_avatar_98x98_34507.gif

[jhanic]

Interesting. It sounds like he's dug himself a hole he can't realistically get out of. I ALMOST feel sorry for him.

John

[JTurner]

Interesting. It sounds like he's dug himself a hole he can't realistically get out of. I ALMOST feel sorry for him.

John

Well, I have every reason to hate him though, but that would just take effort. I think he's a shady guy of course. He would do crap like order a VERY high end book, like something signed by Tolkien, have pictures from the guy hes buying from, and while its being shipped, make me post an auction with this limited info. Then when people would ask questions it would be chaos. Sometimes he'd get mad at me because "I made mistakes in the listing". I got to the point where I pretty much called him a pillhead, and got pretty awkward around there. Of course, remember, he "worked from home", so luckily I only saw him when I had to pick something up. This was just a front for him to walk around in his underwear all day though :cool:.

[Rahfa]

He would do crap like order a VERY high end book, like something signed by Tolkien, have pictures from the guy hes buying from, and while its being shipped, make me post an auction with this limited info. Then when people would ask questions it would be chaos.

How bizarre...so he actually has a legit product to sell, but doesn't want to wait the 3-4 days before it actually arrives to list it?

The driving-to-Wisconsin story isn't creepy so much as annoying (and pointless)...at the Harvard signing a few years back, there were a couple guys with stacks of books that were unsuccessful in getting any signed...probably same sort of thing.

Dumb question, but what do you mean by "stale?" I assume you mean the recylced inventory we would see listed on ebay again and again?

[JTurner]

He would do crap like order a VERY high end book, like something signed by Tolkien, have pictures from the guy hes buying from, and while its being shipped, make me post an auction with this limited info. Then when people would ask questions it would be chaos.

How bizarre...so he actually has a legit product to sell, but doesn't want to wait the 3-4 days before it actually arrives to list it?

The driving-to-Wisconsin story isn't creepy so much as annoying (and pointless)...at the Harvard signing a few years back, there were a couple guys with stacks of books that were unsuccessful in getting any signed...probably same sort of thing.

Dumb question, but what do you mean by "stale?" I assume you mean the recylced inventory we would see listed on ebay again and again?


By stale I mean, he flooded the market and his James Pattersons and John Grishams were only getting one bid of $20. It became a cycle because we weren't making money on these books, so he couldn't get new good stuff, and it just got worse. The only books that WOULD sell, we would post every week because thats all there was to sell, but of course the consequence of this is bids diminish in following weeks.

[JTurner]

By the way, to his credit, his policy was if a signed item was worth over the cost of getting authenticated, then do it. There were several times I would show him a sig that was very questionable and he would agree. He may have been shady with selling fakes prior to me being there, but this is one accusation that I wouldnt be able to back up.

[Rahfa]

By the way, to his credit, his policy was if a signed item was worth over the cost of getting authenticated, then do it. There were several times I would show him a sig that was very questionable and he would agree. He may have been shady with selling fakes prior to me being there, but this is one accusation that I wouldnt be able to back up.

I'm sort of in the minority, but I never thought he sold fakes...the shill bidding I questioned, but his signed items always seemed legit.

For all his faults, the reality is it's a thin line between being a hard-edged but successful businessman and a flop. Like you said, once you get into that spiraling cycle, it's difficult to get out of.

I've sold him stuff, too...I always assumed he had a buyer, but then a few weeks would go by and the book would show up on ebay...and it's not like I was selling for garage sale prices.

[JTurner]

By the way, to his credit, his policy was if a signed item was worth over the cost of getting authenticated, then do it. There were several times I would show him a sig that was very questionable and he would agree. He may have been shady with selling fakes prior to me being there, but this is one accusation that I wouldnt be able to back up.

I'm sort of in the minority, but I never thought he sold fakes...the shill bidding I questioned, but his signed items always seemed legit.

For all his faults, the reality is it's a thin line between being a hard-edged but successful businessman and a flop. Like you said, once you get into that spiraling cycle, it's difficult to get out of.

I've sold him stuff, too...I always assumed he had a buyer, but then a few weeks would go by and the book would show up on ebay...and it's not like I was selling for garage sale prices.


Yea, he would in some cases wait until the eBay purchase wasn't on completed auctions anymore. If it wasn't an eBay purchase, he couldn't wait 5 minutes after he paid to get the item up on eBay.

[shnnrc01]

:cool:

[herbertwest]

I too wonder what book.:orely:

Stephen King ordered a Zane Grey signed book from him I believe off of Abe. Funny thing is he didn't have the book at the time for some reason, so he had to go find one on his own. Then the cross country stalking started and Tim would send signed Red Sox stuff to his office, only to have it promptly returned. :scared:

Is it the book that he claimed he exchanged for about 10 King signed books?
True then?

[Patrick]

By the way, to his credit, his policy was if a signed item was worth over the cost of getting authenticated, then do it. There were several times I would show him a sig that was very questionable and he would agree. He may have been shady with selling fakes prior to me being there, but this is one accusation that I wouldnt be able to back up.
I have never bought anything from Flatsigned, but still I am glad to hear this perspective.

Oh, and welcome to the site, JTurner!

[JTurner]

Yes, the Zane Grey was the one he exchanged for the signed books

[redsoxfan565]

By the way, to his credit, his policy was if a signed item was worth over the cost of getting authenticated, then do it. There were several times I would show him a sig that was very questionable and he would agree. He may have been shady with selling fakes prior to me being there, but this is one accusation that I wouldnt be able to back up.

I'm sort of in the minority, but I never thought he sold fakes...the shill bidding I questioned, but his signed items always seemed legit.



Simply not true. He sold hundreds of political signed books that were fake the past couple of years, and still does it to this day. His Obamas that he had up, and some recently, are some of the worst on the market, and it's really a shame for the sellers like myself who had authentics, only to see him selling junk. I have no respect for his company or him. None.

Recent Obama's that he sold that are not even close:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Audacity-Hope-Signed-Barack-Obama-/130419366420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

http://cgi.ebay.com/Barack-Obama-SIGNED-Dreams-My-Father-FIRST-EDITION-/380258416109?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible

http://cgi.ebay.com/Barack-Obama-FIRST-EDITION-Audacity-Hope-SIGNED-/380258416098?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380256642339

[JTurner]

By the way, to his credit, his policy was if a signed item was worth over the cost of getting authenticated, then do it. There were several times I would show him a sig that was very questionable and he would agree. He may have been shady with selling fakes prior to me being there, but this is one accusation that I wouldnt be able to back up.

I'm sort of in the minority, but I never thought he sold fakes...the shill bidding I questioned, but his signed items always seemed legit.



Simply not true. He sold hundreds of political signed books that were fake the past couple of years, and still does it to this day. His Obamas that he had up, and some recently, are some of the worst on the market, and it's really a shame for the sellers like myself who had authentics, only to see him selling junk. I have no respect for his company or him. None.

Recent Obama's that he sold that are not even close:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Audacity-Hope-Signed-Barack-Obama-/130419366420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

http://cgi.ebay.com/Barack-Obama-SIGNED-Dreams-My-Father-FIRST-EDITION-/380258416109?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible

http://cgi.ebay.com/Barack-Obama-FIRST-EDITION-Audacity-Hope-SIGNED-/380258416098?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380256642339




Like I said, youre probably right, but he always had us do GAI or PSA while I was there. He might not be doing it anymore now that the money is really tight.

[Rahfa]

I dunno...I have an Obama book that I watched him sign to me, and it's pretty close to a couple of those.

But, I'm not staking my reputation on it either...and as for getting "The Bridge" signed, I'm not sure when someone would have had that opportunity.

[JTurner]

I dunno...I have an Obama book that I watched him sign to me, and it's pretty close to a couple of those.

But, I'm not staking my reputation on it either...and as for getting "The Bridge" signed, I'm not sure when someone would have had that opportunity.

The biggest thing is to get a reliable COA with anything you get, I'd say if Tim's auctions include a COA from JSA, GAI, or PSA you'll be alright, but you guys know, COAs are only worth as much the paper they're on.

[Stockerlone]

I only bought sig + lim books from Flat. Think the ´fake´ chance is NOT so high.

[JTurner]

I only bought sig + lim books from Flat. Think the ´fake´ chance is NOT so high.

As long as you know the Ltd Ed actually exists, you are clear.

[Rahfa]

Did the Imus controversey really hurt him? I always assumed that any publicity is good publicity, but maybe it hurt the repuatation after all...

I thought the Imus comments were sort of funny, but I didn't pay him for the ad spot either...

[Ari_Racing]

What was the Imus controversey?

[Hutch]

I only bought sig + lim books from Flat. Think the ´fake´ chance is NOT so high.

the thing I used to watch for more than anything else with Flatsigned were the manufactured books. Books with tipped in pages, married dust jackets, replaced endpages, tipped in copyright pages, etc. A good example was a signed later or full size book club Dead Zone that Tim bought from our own Greg S. The signed page was removed from the book, trimmed down to fit into a 1st edition Carrie and tipped into the book at the gutter. The book was being offered as a signed first edition of Carrie with no mention of the page being tipped in. Funny thing was that it was inscribed " may all your zones be live ones, Stephen King", a typical Dead Zone inscription.

Anyone remember those pb's with the owner's sketches that were signed by King that Flatsigned bought off ebay? The signet title pages were removed from the pbs and glued into first editions. Offered as signed firsts. All too often the potential buyers would have to know exactly what they were looking at and keep a sharp eye out because in some instances details of the work done may have been omitted from the description.

I'm not complaining just pointing out that for a purist like me this type of thing does not appeal to me, Tim can be a little too creative at times. All to often making something out of nothing. Some would call this good salesmanship. Others may have a different word for it.

[jhanic]

Like fraud.

John

[Sam]

What he said.

[redsoxfan565]

I dunno...I have an Obama book that I watched him sign to me, and it's pretty close to a couple of those.

But, I'm not staking my reputation on it either...and as for getting "The Bridge" signed, I'm not sure when someone would have had that opportunity.

Yea I would bet my reputation on all of those links I posted as being fakes. I obtained over 160+ signatures of him in a 2 year span and can tell within an instant what is his handwriting, his assistant, or a total forgery. Those are all total forgeries.

As far as any of the companies go, JSA and GAI don't know their head from their ass. GAI is where forgers go to submit fakes and get them "sellable" by Ebay standards. At least PSA has some type of reputation for being a lot better. They are human and do make mistakes, but for the most part PSA Obama's are a good place to start. With any COA from anywhere you still need to study the signature and make sure it's legit, but at least with PSA it's somewhat respected.

[Randall Flagg]

Fascinating. Essentially all of the questions raised about Flatsigned are now declaring as legitimate worries.

[JTurner]

I dunno...I have an Obama book that I watched him sign to me, and it's pretty close to a couple of those.

But, I'm not staking my reputation on it either...and as for getting "The Bridge" signed, I'm not sure when someone would have had that opportunity.

Yea I would bet my reputation on all of those links I posted as being fakes. I obtained over 160+ signatures of him in a 2 year span and can tell within an instant what is his handwriting, his assistant, or a total forgery. Those are all total forgeries.

As far as any of the companies go, JSA and GAI don't know their head from their ass. GAI is where forgers go to submit fakes and get them "sellable" by Ebay standards. At least PSA has some type of reputation for being a lot better. They are human and do make mistakes, but for the most part PSA Obama's are a good place to start. With any COA from anywhere you still need to study the signature and make sure it's legit, but at least with PSA it's somewhat respected.



Actually I would disagree. PSA was reputable until James Spence was forced out and started his own auth service. There are several reports that Spence was asked to authenticate an item known to be fake, and was shaken out by the board due to non-subordination. I have my issues with GAI, but I know PSA is VERY questionable.

I remember we had a Faulkner we sent to GAI and it got declined, then it was sent again by accident and got approved, but we still didn't sell it.

I thought the same about PSA until I found out about why James Spence left. I think its marketing that really sells PSA's reputation, but they are as crooked as any of them.

[JTurner]

I only bought sig + lim books from Flat. Think the ´fake´ chance is NOT so high.

the thing I used to watch for more than anything else with Flatsigned were the manufactured books. Books with tipped in pages, married dust jackets, replaced endpages, tipped in copyright pages, etc. A good example was a signed later or full size book club Dead Zone that Tim bought from our own Greg S. The signed page was removed from the book, trimmed down to fit into a 1st edition Carrie and tipped into the book at the gutter. The book was being offered as a signed first edition of Carrie with no mention of the page being tipped in. Funny thing was that it was inscribed " may all your zones be live ones, Stephen King", a typical Dead Zone inscription.

Anyone remember those pb's with the owner's sketches that were signed by King that Flatsigned bought off ebay? The signet title pages were removed from the pbs and glued into first editions. Offered as signed firsts. All too often the potential buyers would have to know exactly what they were looking at and keep a sharp eye out because in some instances details of the work done may have been omitted from the description.

I'm not complaining just pointing out that for a purist like me this type of thing does not appeal to me, Tim can be a little too creative at times. All to often making something out of nothing. Some would call this good salesmanship. Others may have a different word for it.


Also, anytime I was aware of a tip in, I mentioned it, and we would get docked if we didn't mention it.

[JTurner]

What was the Imus controversey?

Tim bought a commercial on Don Imus's radio show, like 2 weeks after Gerald Ford died, whom Tim did a limited edition with. When Imus was reading, he went off script and said something like, "Now that Ford is flatlined, go to FlatSigned". Keep in mind this was in 2007 just as the economy was plummeting, and FlatSigned's sales were dropping. So Tim sued Imus, and it keeps going in favor of Imus, but Tim keeps appealing. But he basically said that it devalued its brand name.

[jhanic]

What was the Imus controversey?

But he basically said that it devalued its brand name.

:rofl:

John

[turtlex]

What was the Imus controversey?

Tim bought a commercial on Don Imus's radio show, like 2 weeks after Gerald Ford died, whom Tim did a limited edition with. When Imus was reading, he went off script and said something like, "Now that Ford is flatlined, go to FlatSigned". Keep in mind this was in 2007 just as the economy was plummeting, and FlatSigned's sales were dropping. So Tim sued Imus, and it keeps going in favor of Imus, but Tim keeps appealing. But he basically said that it devalued its brand name.

Is it wrong that my first thought was "gee, I didn't realize that Imus was actually funny."

[redsoxfan565]

I dunno...I have an Obama book that I watched him sign to me, and it's pretty close to a couple of those.

But, I'm not staking my reputation on it either...and as for getting "The Bridge" signed, I'm not sure when someone would have had that opportunity.

Yea I would bet my reputation on all of those links I posted as being fakes. I obtained over 160+ signatures of him in a 2 year span and can tell within an instant what is his handwriting, his assistant, or a total forgery. Those are all total forgeries.

As far as any of the companies go, JSA and GAI don't know their head from their ass. GAI is where forgers go to submit fakes and get them "sellable" by Ebay standards. At least PSA has some type of reputation for being a lot better. They are human and do make mistakes, but for the most part PSA Obama's are a good place to start. With any COA from anywhere you still need to study the signature and make sure it's legit, but at least with PSA it's somewhat respected.



Actually I would disagree. PSA was reputable until James Spence was forced out and started his own auth service. There are several reports that Spence was asked to authenticate an item known to be fake, and was shaken out by the board due to non-subordination. I have my issues with GAI, but I know PSA is VERY questionable.

I remember we had a Faulkner we sent to GAI and it got declined, then it was sent again by accident and got approved, but we still didn't sell it.

I thought the same about PSA until I found out about why James Spence left. I think its marketing that really sells PSA's reputation, but they are as crooked as any of them.

I think that that story is more speculation than anything. Only people who really know what happened are Spence and PSA. As far as authentic items go, Spence's company has issued more of their certs for fake items than PSA and they have been around for much less time. I can definitely tell you that they have certed as much fake Obama's as GAI as I have closely watched the market of Obama for the better part of 4 years now.

Regardless about the authenticator, I think the point is that there was really a lack of quality control with Flatsigned, which has caused them to have many questions raised about the authenticity of their books. If what you are saying is true, about Tim trying to get more authenticated items, it still doesn't excuse the fake that the items were fake. With any 3rd party authenticator you still need to do the proper research to back up the claim made by the company that its authentic/not authentic. While it may take a few more hours, it makes the reputation all the more better. Clearly this did not happen on a proper scale at this company, and despite the economic troubles and everything, I think the fact that they sold thousands of fake items over the past couple of years has hurt them.

Whats really funny about this is that Tim actually responded to some of the questions on the board, but chose to put blame on everyone else but himself and his company for the selling of the fakes.


These to me are unacceptable responses, and prove why he has failed in business:


Both of the Obama autographs above were carefully reviewed and approved by GAI. I do not have any financial interest in GAI. They are eBay's recommended company to approve autographs. If anyone believes it's possible to do more than have an independent, third party company approve autographs before they go on the net for sale, then you can not be satisfied but for turning over control of what is and what is not good to that person.

In addition, these books came from eBay which can be verified. I realize that is NOT a great recommendation but it proves that no person here is faking autographs and never has. I never touched the above books nor do I touch 99% of the books sold by my company. That is all done by a professional staff of seven to ten people who work for me. I am responsible and liable for their actions as the owner of the company. But it is my perception that most people who are placing comments here do not understand how this and other large or even medium sized companies work. The work is performed by lower level staff after middle-managers arrange for the autographs to be reviewed and aproved. As the owner of the company I do not perform any of those duties but again, I am responsible and liable. In addition, it is my pocked where all monies come from when there are problems and mistakes. Unfortunately, you can not sell thousands of autographs in this world and not sell a few fakes by mistake. To the person who uses the example of having sent me an email saying I had a fake King autograph and I responded to them, that is NOT true. That too would of been an employee. BUT, if they had your email and did not end the auction then please share that with me. They will be terminated for doing wrong. That is, IF they had the 24 hour notice (eBay rules) to end the listing or unless it had GAI, PSA or James Spence Autographs confirmation that the autograph was good. We follow what eBay says. The playground belongs to eBay. Playing by their rules is all anyone can do when selling items on their site.

I sincerely regret that anyone has to deal with buying fake autographs. But, I promise you that my collection of fake autographs far out numbers anyones. I know this company has lost over one-hundred thousand dollars due to buying fakes on eBay alone. That money is lost by my company. I have sued multiple people who have intentionally sold fake autographs. In my earlier years I spent countless hours trying to clean-up the internet of fake autographs. I have not given up. Anyone can focus on the bad or the good....totally your choice. Anything we sell here comes with a lifetime, money back guarantee and that policy is the fairest policy any company can offer. Most, including the big auction houses do not stand behind their autographs for life but instead limit it to one to three months and some don't stand behind their autographs at all and instead sell as-is. Again, I am willing to answer any questions but will not be checking this site very often. Others have totally stopped coming to this site due to the negativity and uncolaberated attacks being made. It takes far too much time to do this and I am struggling to keep the employees and bills paid. But, anyone is welcome to email me direct at timmiller@flatsigned.com and whatever I say in those emails may be posted with my permission. I wish everyone out there the best!
Warmest Regards,
Tim Miller

http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showpost.php?p=467610&postcount=187

http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showpost.php?p=466057&postcount=174

"I have never knowingly sold a fake autograph. EVERY PERSON OF ANY SIZE IN THIS BUSINESS HAS SOLD FAKE AUTOGRAPHS. Unfortunately, that is part of this industry and that is sad. The key is doing the right thing after you know a mistake has happened. That is to refund, apologize and destroy the fake autograph. That is what has happened everytime to my knowledge."

[Randall Flagg]

According your own press release (http://www.prnewschannel.com/absolutenm/templates/?a=782&z=4) (quoted in entirety..sorry, very lengthy),
You yourself are an expert and lend your expertise.. 'regarding contemporary values of of rare autographed books'.

I believe value would indicate authenticity, as a fake would be worthless.

'As President and CEO of the multi-million dollar autographed book company and publisher FlatSigned Press, Inc., Miller consistently lends his expertise to television, radio and newspaper personalities and journalists researching the historical accounts and contemporary values of rare autographed books. He is a contributor to "The Sanders Price Guide to Autographs," the definitive price guide for autograph collectors, and many other trade and consumer autograph publications.

Full release:

PRNewsChannel (http://www.prnewschannel.com/)) / August 23, 2008 / Nashville, Tenn. – One of the last relationships Hunter S. Thompson developed was with a publisher of autographed, limited edition books. That relationship was with the founder and owner of FlatSigned Press, Tim Miller. Miller and Thompson corresponded many times during the final year of Thompson's life and they became close. Although he was reclusive, Thompson talked with Miller, autographed books for FlatSigned and had many discussions of politics, morals and life in general. The late journalist Dr. Hunter S. Thompson left a public image of a madman, constantly engaged in drug-fueled odysseys through the American underbelly in the 1960s and 1970s, a side of him immortalized in the Hollywood films "Where the Buffalo Roam" starring Bill Murray and "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas," in which Johnny Depp went over the top as a hallucinogen-crazed Thompson. That image was cast in stone when Gerry Trudeau transformed him into the character of "Raoul Duke" in his "Doonesbury" comic strip.
But the new documentary "Gonzo: The Life and Work of Dr. Hunter S. Thompson" shows a different portrait of Thompson – that of a brilliant, often frighteningly lucid mind at work, coolly and objectively dissecting the world around him even as that world drove him to use drugs and alcohol as an intermediary between himself and the awful reality he documented so well. During his race for sheriff of Colorado's Pitken County (home to the resort town of Aspen) in 1970, he was written up in the media as the "freak power" candidate, and while there couldn't help but be a general circus air around any candidacy that featured as its logo a fist clenching a peyote button, Thompson was anything but the stereotypical hippie/yippy making vague declarations about peace and love and tuning in. In one debate, he declared memorably that "I think that the marijuana laws are one of the reasons that has engendered the lack of respect that cops complain about all over the country. When you've got a whole generation that grows up as felons, and they know that the law's ridiculous; they're told all this gibberish about it, that it drives you crazy and makes your brain soft, makes your feet fall off…even the police know it's a silly law."
Days after 9/11, he wrote prophetically that what was to come "will be a Religious War, a sort of Christian Jihad, fueled by religious hatred and led by merciless fanatics on both sides. It will be guerilla warfare on a global scale, with no front lines and no identifiable enemy…We are going to punish somebody for this attack, but just who or what will be blown to smithereens for it is hard to say. Maybe Afghanistan, maybe Pakistan or Iraq, or possibly all three at once…This is going to be a very expensive war, and Victory is not guaranteed -- for anyone, and certainly not for anyone as baffled as George W. Bush."
Tim Miller, President and CEO of FlatSigned Press, first came into contact with Dr. Thompson near the end of his life. "I'd worked with the late President Ford on several projects and he wintered in Aspen, and so I heard from people there about Thompson, who lived in Woody Creek, not far off." A specialist in collectible books and signed editions, Miller knew that Thompson was one of the more reclusive authors around. "I sent him a letter, asking him if he'd be willing to autograph some books, and he wrote back, giving me his phone number, and said yes, he would, if I sent him the biggest bottle they made of Chivas Regal 'Royal Salute' Scotch Whiskey." Miller willingly complied and so began not only a business relationship but a friendship with Thompson.
Knowing Thompson had recently gotten married, Miller sent his nephew out for expensive, engraved shot glasses for Thompson and his new wife Anita. "We had them personalized with his and his wife Anita's names, and I know he liked them, even though he called them the 'ugly jiggers' a number of times during our conversations and his letters to me." Thompson autographed twelve books for Miller, but what made them special were the stories he wrote in them. "They weren't 'flatsigned' in the traditional sense, which is when a book has the author's signature directly on a page of the book but without being personalized," Miller explained. "He'd write stories in them, wild stuff. In one case, he knew that my nephew had just gotten married, and he wrote in one book about how he had sex with my nephew's new wife in Houston, Texas." Although largely unknown to the public, Thompson considered himself one of the original "Merry Pranksters" of Ken Kesey fame. Thompson and Kesey were friends, along with others not so well known to be part of the group, including Larry McMurtry, with whom Miller also had contact. Miller and Thompson shared stories about McMurtry and the other members of this truly legendary gang of peace lovers and drug proponents.
Miller could tell from their conversations that Thompson was "truly infatuated" with his new bride, who was young enough to be his daughter. His typical waking hours were 2 pm on, and he would just be getting going around midnight. "He'd always let his machine pick up calls, but when he heard my voice, he'd always pick up. Whatever his reputation, in reality he was a sweet, kind, helpful guy." The last time they spoke, Thompson and Anita were watching a movie in their home theater. "He seemed relaxed and happy, but he was dead, a suicide, less than a month later."
Thompson became a recluse partly out of fear, Miller said. "He always feared being murdered by someone he knew; from his past or his present. That fear began with his book on the Hell's Angels which Thompson had written and was published in 1966. "He hated public signings and interviews, and drank a lot out of fear. He even came up to one signing, which was required by his contract with his publisher, in a limo, threw signed bookplates out the window of the car, and sped off. That, in his mind, fulfilled his contractual obligation to his publisher." "Gonzo" substantiates this in a memorable scene where, not long after publication of the book "Hell's Angels," a young Thompson appears on a talk show where host and guest are seated in the center of the studio, and a member of the Angels roars in and circles them on his motorcycle. As the Angel and Thompson dispute how Thompson was bounced out of the gang (he interfered when one of the members was beating a woman), the fear on Thompson's face is palpable.
"It's a real loss for the country," Miller said of Thompson's death. "As his wife Anita says in the movie, with what's going on in the country now, well, now more than ever we could use a voice like his. Thompson was an intellectual politically and otherwise. He knew and felt strongly about how our country was on the wrong path and had ideas as to how to change things for the better. He was never elected to political office but he would have served proudly and would have been an improvement over so many of our elected, political leaders."
About FlatSigned Press
Founded in 1998, FlatSigned Press, Inc. is a rare book seller and publishing company specializing in the sale and publishing of rare and collectible books, signed first-editions, manuscripts, historical documents, art, and autographs. FlatSigned has worked with many of the world's most famous authors and notable figures including the late President Gerald R. Ford, astronaut and moonwalker Buzz Aldrin, and General Hal Moore, best known for his leadership during the battle of La Drang during the Vietnam War, well-detailed in the 1992 book "We Were Soldiers Once… And Young," which became the 2002 film "We Were Soldiers" starring Mel Gibson. The firm's catalog features autographed books from a diverse group of authors, including:
Supreme Court Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, Anthony Kennedy, Sandra Day O'Connor, William Rehnquist, Antonin Scalia, and Clarence Thomas;
Mercury and Apollo astronauts Buzz Aldrin, Alan Bean, Scott Carpenter, Gordon Cooper, Edgar Mitchell, and Wally Schirra;
Former United States Presidents (and presidential candidates) George H. W. Bush, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Hillary Rodham Clinton;
As well as authors H. G. "Buzz" Bissinger, Ray Bradbury, Dan Brown, Vincent Bugliosi, James Lee Burke, Arthur C. Clarke, Joe Galloway, William Goldman, Richard Gordon, Sue Grafton, John Grisham, John Irving, Stephen King, Harper Lee, Cormac McCarthy, Larry McMurtry, Arthur Miller, Lt. General Hal Moore, Tim O'Brien, E. Annie Proulx, Anne Rice, Wilbur Smith, Nicholas Sparks, Hunter S. Thompson, Kurt Vonnegut, and Joseph Wambaugh.
Coined by legendary horror writer Stephen King, the term FlatSigned refers to the most desirable type of collectible book: One that is signed by the author directly on the title page without an inscription. FlatSigned has consistently earned annual sales in excess of $2 million and an EBITA profit of 30%. Additional information can be obtained from www.flatsigned.comor (http://www.flatsigned.comor/)by calling 1-866-FLATSIGNED.
About Owner and Publisher of FlatSigned Press Inc., Tim Miller: Born to an impoverished southern family that had no running water until he was 13, Tim Miller has worked hard his entire life, becoming one of the most notable publishers and book collectors in the world. Throughout his illustrious career, the Lyndon Baines Johnson Scholar has served as White House Press Correspondent and worked directly for the U.S. Congress. He held Certified Press Credentials for both the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate. He has been honored with distinctions including Memphis, TN newspaper "The Commercial Appeal's" version of President George W. Bush's 1,000 Points of Light Award, named to Who's Who in America for seven consecutive years, and named to Who's Who in American Colleges four consecutive years. Always civic-minded, Miller has held distinctive positions including National Staff Officer for the United States Junior Chamber of Commerce, President of the Memphis Junior Chamber of Commerce, State Officer of the Tennessee Jaycees, and Executive Director of the Wisconsin Junior Chamber. A graduate of Austin Peay State University, he attended the Memphis State University School of Law and Western Washington State University. Miller has also held the post of Personnel Officer for St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital. His civic contributions have earned him the nationally-recognized Steve Little Memorial Award from the United States Jaycees.
As President and CEO of the multi-million dollar autographed book company and publisher FlatSigned Press, Inc., Miller consistently lends his expertise to television, radio and newspaper personalities and journalists researching the historical accounts and contemporary values of rare autographed books. He is a contributor to "The Sanders Price Guide to Autographs," the definitive price guide for autograph collectors, and many other trade and consumer autograph publications. He maintains memberships in the Better Business Bureau, The International Society of Appraisers, The Manuscript Society and the Universal Autograph Collectors Club, and has been featured in various programs and publications including cable television channel QVC, the Gordon Liddy Show, and national network news. Additional information can be obtained from www.flatsigned.com (http://www.flatsigned.com/).
To request an interview contact:
Tim Miller, President and CEO FlatSigned Press, Inc.
Phone: 615-268-5245
Email: timmiller@flatsigned.com
Web site: www.flatsigned.com (http://www.flatsigned.com/)

This was discussed quite a bit back.

[surly]

I only bought sig + lim books from Flat. Think the ´fake´ chance is NOT so high.

As long as you know the Ltd Ed actually exists, you are clear.

Now that this thread is heating up; what was the deal with the two states (26 & 100) of the rebound BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES and was there ever a consensus on whether or not the sigs were legit?

[carlosdetweiller]

Now that this thread is heating up; what was the deal with the two states (26 & 100) of the rebound BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES and was there ever a consensus on whether or not the sigs were legit?

I always thought that the sigs were legit. I thought Tim stumbled across a VERY LARGE quantity of the signed paperback editions of that book and had them rebound, thus creating a pseudolimited edition. My question was always "Who would want such a thing?" Typical Miller shenanigans was my opinion.

[herbertwest]

(although i like the informations, isnt there a risk that he comes around and decides to sue you for damaging his "brand image"?

In france, americans are stereotyped as sued for everything...)

[JTurner]

Now that this thread is heating up; what was the deal with the two states (26 & 100) of the rebound BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES and was there ever a consensus on whether or not the sigs were legit?

I always thought that the sigs were legit. I thought Tim stumbled across a VERY LARGE quantity of the signed paperback editions of that book and had them rebound, thus creating a pseudolimited edition. My question was always "Who would want such a thing?" Typical Miller shenanigans was my opinion.

Tim frequently rebound books, and I know for a fact he had piles of the paperbacks.

[Brice]

(although i like the informations, isnt there a risk that he comes around and decides to sue you for damaging his "brand image"?

In france, americans are stereotyped as sued for everything...)

If you have the money to throw into a lawsuit yes, you can sue for absolutely any wrong real or imagined. Whether you win or not is an entirely different matter.

[divemaster]

Now that this thread is heating up; what was the deal with the two states (26 & 100) of the rebound BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES and was there ever a consensus on whether or not the sigs were legit?

I'm pretty sure the sigs are legit. As other posters have surmised, TM evidently came across a whole pile of these and figured out something to do with them.

When I first saw these coming up on eBay I e-mailed Tim and asked if they were aftermarket re-bindings and what the difference between the 26 edition and the 100 edition. He (I assume it was he; I guess it could have been an associate) e-mailed me back and was very upfront with the nature of the books. Nice friendly e-mail.

I would have bought one for less than $50. I wanted the book to read, the signature is a bonus, and hardbacks are sturdier on the shelf. I would have bought it for what it was--not as a bona fide limited edition.

Thus I made lowball bids on just about every single one of these that came up for auction, or had them on my watch list, just in case one slipped into my hands on the cheap. I estimate I bid or watched on at least 40 copies of the "26 limited" and 150 copies of the "100 issued" version.

[Randall Flagg]

In france, americans are stereotyped as sued for everything...)
In America, French are stereotyped as .......nah, too easy. :P

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

In france, americans are stereotyped as sued for everything...)
In America, French are stereotyped as .......nah, too easy. :P

In the UK they are known as, "cheese eating surrender monkeys")!

[herbertwest]

We manage to sell quite expensive our smelly cheeses!

Anyway.. ^^

[lophophoras]

We manage to sell quite expensive our smelly cheeses!

Anyway.. ^^

Smelly cheese. Yum...

:drool:

[Rahfa]

(although i like the informations, isnt there a risk that he comes around and decides to sue you for damaging his "brand image"?

In france, americans are stereotyped as sued for everything...)

You can't be stereotyped for something that's 100 percent true.

[WeDealInLead]

In france, americans are stereotyped as sued for everything...)
In America, French are stereotyped as .......nah, too easy. :P

Arrogance
Aversion to deodorant
Chain smokers
Pro hairy armpits

Getting warmer?

:P

[herbertwest]

Chain smokers?

I already heard all the others, but what does this one mean?


----/-

Going back to the show (topic)

[frik]

Lighting/smoking one cigarette after another...

sk

[herbertwest]

Yes, the Zane Grey was the one he exchanged for the signed books


I am intrigued about that book now!
I didnt even think that Steve would collect signed books!

[JTurner]

it looks like tims auction count is going down, and his cousin lee may have gotten fired or quit (likely the latter) from looking @ tims auctions.... this may be the end of flatsigned!

[Rahfa]

It's not cheap to list all those auctions...even if you shill bid to heart's content, you still have final value fees to pay...I always wonder how any large-skill shill bidders managed those additional costs.

[lophophoras]

The hole was dug deeper with every shill bid.

I find it difficult to find any sympathy.

[jhanic]

He's got this relisted:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140456106414&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

It's over-priced by at least a factor of ten.

John

[JTurner]

check out his feedback, its tanking, plus hes not a "top rated seller" anymore. he recently offered me a job again, but i told him to pound sand. :panic:

[agrabin]

He's got this relisted:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140456106414&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

It's over-priced by at least a factor of ten.

John


I'm not part of the 'bash Tim' brigade since I've never dealt with the man, but I do follow this thread.

What's worrying about this auction is that he failed to indicate that the proof was actually damaged...see below...

Q: Hi, Can you please give me a detailled description of this books condition, describing all faults ? Thanks Oct-01-10
A: Hello, This came directly to me from Steve. He and I email and I will include some of those, with part of his email blacked out, IF YOU LIKE. The book is as good as a used softcover that has been moved around lots but never read can be. The front you can see in the picture...not perfect but almost. The book has NEVER BEEN READ. One of the corners on the back has been torn off so I would take HALF PRICE if you buy today or tomorrow via eBay MAKE OFFER and pay via PayPal.

[e_taylor]

Looking through his feedback, what I really don't like is that he is responding to a lot of the negative feedback by listing the customers real name.

Also, he is selling jewelry now?

[jhanic]

If one of the corners is "torn off", I would estimate the value at less than $100, signed.

John

[biomieg]

Re: the feedback, I really get the creeps from reading some of his replies to feedback left by buyers, they seem really... disjointed somehow, the way everything is strung together, the random use of capitals, the paranoid remarks. I think Tim's not feeling too well nowadays.

Example:


OFFEREDmoneyBACKonONE.WantedTOkeep.THENthis.CROOKS !avoidBAD PEOPLE.TakeADVANTAGE

[agrabin]

Re: the feedback, I really get the creeps from reading some of his replies to feedback left by buyers, they seem really... disjointed somehow, the way everything is strung together, the random use of capitals, the paranoid remarks. I think Tim's not feeling too well nowadays.

Example:


OFFEREDmoneyBACKonONE.WantedTOkeep.THENthis.CROOKS !avoidBAD PEOPLE.TakeADVANTAGE

Blaine! Is that you???

[JTurner]

He's got this relisted:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140456106414&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

It's over-priced by at least a factor of ten.

John


I'm not part of the 'bash Tim' brigade since I've never dealt with the man, but I do follow this thread.

What's worrying about this auction is that he failed to indicate that the proof was actually damaged...see below...

Q: Hi, Can you please give me a detailled description of this books condition, describing all faults ? Thanks Oct-01-10
A: Hello, This came directly to me from Steve. He and I email and I will include some of those, with part of his email blacked out, IF YOU LIKE. The book is as good as a used softcover that has been moved around lots but never read can be. The front you can see in the picture...not perfect but almost. The book has NEVER BEEN READ. One of the corners on the back has been torn off so I would take HALF PRICE if you buy today or tomorrow via eBay MAKE OFFER and pay via PayPal.



I know that these "emails" from Steve King are legit, however they probably have nothing to with the books in question. He was briefly in correspondence with Steve because Tim flagged down a Zane Grey signed book for Stephen, which initially Stephen was appreciative of, and had neighborly traded a few emails, but when Tim started stalking him, Stephen's camp went just short of issuing a restraining order. So Tim keeps his emails for exact times like this.

[JTurner]

Re: the feedback, I really get the creeps from reading some of his replies to feedback left by buyers, they seem really... disjointed somehow, the way everything is strung together, the random use of capitals, the paranoid remarks. I think Tim's not feeling too well nowadays.

Example:


OFFEREDmoneyBACKonONE.WantedTOkeep.THENthis.CROOKS !avoidBAD PEOPLE.TakeADVANTAGE

He has declining health for sure. He had us frequently use the caps, no spaces for subtitles to fit stuff in. He's in a bad situation, which I believe his staff in Dover quit. Certainly don't feel too bad though

[jhanic]

Flatsigned is at it again:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stephen-King-SIGNED-Under-Dome-1ST-ARC-Association-/380304158717?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item588be4effd

But no pictures (yet).

And it seems to a bit overpriced.

John

[Randall Flagg]

John, Flatsigned is so special he has his own thread.:evil: I moved your post here.

[jhanic]

Thanks, Randall. I'd forgotten about this thread.

John

[Ric]

Seems like Flatsigned is no longer a registered eBay user.

[Merlin1958]

Seems like Flatsigned is no longer a registered eBay user.

Really? Huh, that makes you think don't it? LOL

[jhanic]

Or at least under that name. I guess I'm just too cynical.

John

[tippy4]

This is not the first time his account has gone into "not a registered user" status.

He will be back.

[Merlin1958]

This is not the first time his account has gone into "not a registered user" status.

He will be back.

Good to know. I never bought anything from them, but they seemed legit. Obviously, appearances can be decieving!!!

[jhanic]

This is not the first time his account has gone into "not a registered user" status.

He will be back.
...they seemed legit. Obviously, appearances can be decieving!!!

Isn't that the mark of a good con-man?

John

[gsvec]

He's still there - just no current auctions. http://myworld.ebay.com/www.flatsigned.com/

[harrison ryan]

I read this entire thread from start to finish last night. It's quite the gripping saga.

[Cook]

I just spent the better part of this morning reading this thread.
Again, I am amazed with this site, very very informative.
I've always had that gut level feeling about FS, so I've always steered clear.
Seems my gut was right!!

[JTurner]

I got an email from Tim's assistant a little while ago saying they are "taking the summer off because of his declining health". I know when I was working for him he was in bad shape, taking a lot of painkillers etc. It may appear that eBay and FS have some cahoots from the outside looking in, but from what I saw FS was frequently shafted by eBay on some situations based on his reputation (not that he didn't deserve it). It was little things like we would have an item PSA'd or GAI'd and another eBay user would "report" the item, and we couldn't list it again. All of that bad feedback may have caught up with him, and I know some customers had to request refunds through eBay, which I am sure eBay didn't appreciate.

I feel a little more comfortable talking about this stuff now and will in most cases answer questions to liven this thread. Like I said, I only know what I saw, obviously I know his reputation. If it were me, I would have hesitation buying stuff from him because he's a shady guy. Although I did say earlier in the thread that while I was there he was very persistent that if I had any question about an item, just GAI it or PSA, so the stuff about him selling fakes may be true, but I never saw it. It probably happened way more when he was practically printing money in 06 and 07.

[lexie4006]

I'm not buying the summer vacation line. eBay does not mark you as "No Longer a Registered User" unless you've been suspended for one of several reasons.

[JTurner]

hey guys, just wanted to give you a heads up.

i believe tim is back up on ebay under the name "firstchoicetn37058" .

i am almost certain its him, he's got up a lot of auctions of items he had, and he's based in dover where he moved. looking at his feedback, looks like hes having problems with paypal. just a heads up.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=firstchoicetn37058&&_trksid=p4340.l2560&iid=220855153554&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

[Randall Flagg]

He states is he an "Honest and honorable Christian".........

[Ben Staad]

He states is he an "Honest and honorable Christian".........

No offense to anyone but that's a warning sign for me right there!

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

He states is he an "Honest and honorable Christian".........

That's what they all say...in front of the Parole Board!

[Brice]

Ummm....yeah, as a generality imo if they have to tell you that they're christians, they are not very good ones.

^^^This isn't intended against christianity or christians....just those who feel the need to advertise it. In fact the same can be said for those who have to tell you that they're honest and/or honorable.

[sgc1999]

TRUST MEEEE:belial:

[Brice]

:lol:

[Manco]

Thanks for this thread DT.

I laughed, I cried, and now I am wiser.
:lol:

[Randall Flagg]

Bumped for Shannon-and others to read about bookseller Tim Miller.

[Shannon]

Thanks for the bump. Read from start to finish, and I have a thought that I'm surprised wasn't brought up earlier:

JTurner is Tim Miller.

[Robert Fulman]

And after watching the Ravens choke yesterday, I'm reminded that Finkle is Einhorn.

[Shannon]

lol

[Randall Flagg]

Thanks for the bump. Read from start to finish, and I have a thought that I'm surprised wasn't brought up earlier:

JTurner is Tim Miller.
I don't think so. Jturner was pretty critical of him.

[Robert Fulman]

I bought a signed book, and it came with a Flatsigned Certificate of Authenticity. It was just a photocopied piece of paper that generically said something like "This signature is guaranteed to be real." I'm not even sure if the book was listed by name or otherwise described at all. It it wasn't a S/L (not King), then I think the COA would have made me worry.

[Shannon]

Crow-Man. Yes, and no. If you go back and read what he wrote, there was always a sympathetic side to it. Or, he would stoke the fires of the members of the forum for a reaction most of the time agreeing with whatever was being said. But in the end ... the Tim Miller screen name disappeared yet people were still talking about him due to this mysterious new "Tim Miller employee". It's very strange, the whole thing. The writing style and grammar is intentionally different, kind of like trying to write a letter in the hand you're not used to, just so people wouldn't think you wrote it.

[Randall Flagg]

Here are their two IP's:
The IP Address is: 98.240.93.58
The host name is: c-98-240-93-58.hsd1.tn.comcast.net

The IP Address is: 98.193.157.86
The host name is: c-98-193-157-86.hsd1.tn.comcast.net

[Shannon]

I was going to say "I guess I was wrong!" But ... they're kinda similar, aren't they?

[Randall Flagg]

They both resolve to Nashville, which is a city/county of over 600,000. Presuming taylor worked for miller, one would think they could both be from the same area.

[Shannon]

Ehhhh, ok. I'll give you that one.

[JTurner]

It's okay, I thought about it and there is no way I will get even close to revealing my identity because of how frivolous Tim is. Also, when I felt comfortable to come on here, he had already moved to Dover, which wasn't a Nashville IP.

As for the COA of Tim's, all it is is a piece of paper. It's supposed to be the thing you send back with a book along with a letter from a real COA company saying the signature was fake. I know there were a few times when he wouldn't return money because he thought people were scamming him, how ironic?

As a rule of thumb, ALL COA's are only worth the paper their written on. There have been nasty allegations of fraud at all of the top COA companies including PSA and GAI, but I can assure you there pieces of paper of worth slightly more than Tim's, and with those you can at least re-sell them.

[divemaster]

Don't worry JT, no one really thinks you are Tim Miller. Shannon's just been hitting the crack pipe. :P I for one appreciate your contributions to this board.

[Merlin1958]

Don't worry JT, no one really thinks you are Tim Miller. Shannon's just been hitting the crack pipe. :P I for one appreciate your contributions to this board.

LOL Shannon, I thought you were past the "Crack Pipe" and onto King S/L's???? You have a slip, buddy? LOL I'm here for you my friend!!!!! Talk to me!!! LOL

:emot-flame:

[Shannon]

Crack pipe or not, I find it very interesting that when the poster in question first came on the scene, his style of writing was the exact opposite of Mr. Tim Miller's. No capitalization, the grammar and spelling of some words were incorrect, etc. When Miller wrote, his posts were very thoughtful and intelligent. When JT started to post, his posts were the opposite. Take a look through his history. And then, over time, the guise of being someone else dropped a little bit, and has evolved into his latest style of writing (above) which is very similar to Tim Miller's.

Am I crazy to be the only one that is even thinking this thought?

If someone wants to write something on paper but not be discovered, he changes his penmanship. He might even write in block letters, or with his alternate hand. Online, the only thing you can do is change the way you write.

[Rahfa]

You're not crazy, but...

The likeliest theory is usually the truth...and I don't see any reason why JT would pretend to be Tim Miller, or vice versa. He's not changing any minds, and not defending Tim, so what's the motivation?

I've actually done business with Tim, and he was always cordial and professional with me...so am I Tim Miller for saying that?

I get what you're saying, but I think you've latched on to an unlikely conspiracy...anyway, I know it's just idle speculation anyhow.

[Randall Flagg]

You're not crazy, but...The likeliest theory is usually the truth...

Occam's razor

[Shannon]

"and I don't see any reason why JT would pretend to be Tim Miller, or vice versa. He's not changing any minds, and not defending Tim, so what's the motivation?"

To stay involved in a conversation about him while still bring viewed as an outsider? To stir the pot? Any information is good information, and this thread does have seventeen pages, lol

[Merlin1958]

Can we get past this line of thinking? JT seems awful authentic to me. Then again what the hell do I know?

[Rahfa]

"and I don't see any reason why JT would pretend to be Tim Miller, or vice versa. He's not changing any minds, and not defending Tim, so what's the motivation?"

To stay involved in a conversation about him while still bring viewed as an outsider? To stir the pot? Any information is good information, and this thread does have seventeen pages, lol

True...but he's the one giving the information.

Eh, it's amusing to speculate...but I think you're on the long branch on this one...haha....

[Shannon]

Eh, I'm used to it. :)

[Randall Flagg]

Shall I archive this? It's been over a year.
The thread could be revived if FS rears his ugly head.

[jhanic]

I find it hard to believe that Flatsigned has actually disappeared, but I'd say archive it.

John

[Shannon]

I still think JTurner was Tim Miller.

This was the only thread he ever posted in.

[sgc1999]

Office computer, home computer??

[Roseannebarr]

Shall I archive this? It's been over a year.
The thread could be revived if FS rears his ugly head.

give me a couple of days to read it before you archive. it is very interesting thread! thanks!

[Roseannebarr]

I am up to page 7. it is a very interesting thread and one that makes you really think when buying signed items from others. People believe they have an authentic signed Stephen King Item and pass it along when selling. Even Betts Books recently questioned books from RAPTIS. It is SCARY

[Randall Flagg]

If members are reading it and posting, I'll hold off on archiving it.

[Merlin1958]

If members are reading it and posting, I'll hold off on archiving it.

I give you.... TMIDITW!!!!!


:biggrin1: