PDA

View Full Version : Life on Mars (UK/US) + Ashes to Ashes



DoctorDodge
03-17-2009, 07:06 AM
*Or alternatively, the Gene Hunt Appreciation Board* :D

Ok, I thought i'd post a thread for these 3 shows since Ashes to Ashes: Series One has just started showing in the US and there's bound to be a couple of fans of the US remake of LoM (though, tbh, i'm not one of them) as well as their being a few fans of the UNBEATABLE original. Add the fact that the US version will be ending soon and a brand new series of Ashes to Ashes is about to start next month, it just seemed ultra necessary to have a topic on this board!

So come on, fess up: who else is looking forward to the return of DCI Gene Hunt and his band of "Armed Bastards"?

flaggwalkstheline
03-17-2009, 07:14 AM
I have no idea what ur talking about:wtf:
I thought this thread was going to to have something to do with david bowie...

turtlex
03-17-2009, 07:16 AM
BBC America is where these shows can be found here in the US.

DoctorDodge
03-17-2009, 07:24 AM
I have no idea what ur talking about:wtf:
I thought this thread was going to to have something to do with david bowie...

Oh, in a way it does. I'm referring to a British series made in 2006 about Sam Tyler, a modern day cop who gets hit by a car and wakes up in 1973. This is done to the tune of Life on Mars? by David Bowie, so you can imagine how EPIC the beginning is. (And if you can't, here's a link to it: YouTube - Life On Mars - Sam goes to 1973)

Although the series lasted for just two series and a total of 16 episodes, it won many awards and proved to be one of the best and most original british shows made in a long time. It was so good, in fact, that ABC decided to remake a watered down version of it and show it after Lost. This will end soon, not because the writers have decided to finish it before it gets dragged out like the original, but simply because it's been cancelled.

Ashes to Ashes, meanwhile, is the sequal to the original British version, this time with DI Alex Drake going back in time to 1981. I'm a HUGE fan of both LoM and A2A, so I'm sorry if it seems like i've just rambled on, lol!

Bev Vincent
03-17-2009, 02:31 PM
I started by watching the US series. Pretty good, I thought. Hard to beat Harvey Keitel, I thought. Then I watched the entire UK series and man does it rock big time. The actors who play Gene and Sam are brilliant. Fascinating series with few missteps.

Then came Ashes to Ashes and they wrecked it all, in my opinion. Moving it from Manchester to London and upgrading it to the 1980s was a huge mistake. Gene drinking wine in an Italian restaurant instead of scotch in a pub? Gimme a break? Gene, Chris and Ray have turned into Miami Vice cops, dressed in 80s gear and spinning their tires.

But, to top it all off, I couldn't stand the new rocket girl. She dresses like she wants to take Jennifer Beals' place in Flashdance and she just annoys the crap out of me with her whining and self analysis. As much as I like Glennister, I gave up on Ashes to Ashes after a few episodes.

However, if you want more of Glennister and John Simm, check out the UK miniseries State of Play. It's being remade as an American theatrical release, which will destroy it, I'm sure, but the original is fantastic. Plus it has the always, always enjoyable Bill Nighy. Top notch. Couldn't recommend it more highly.

DoctorDodge
03-17-2009, 04:13 PM
Whilst i'll admit that the first series of Ashes to Ashes isn't as good as Life on Mars, Gene Hunt still had his great politically incorrect one liners. Think my favourite line is the joke he says to a feminist:

"How many birds does it take to change a lightbulb? Two: one to run around screaming what do i do and the other to shag the electrician!"

But you're right: Ashes to Ashes is, at the end of the day, VERY different to Life on Mars. It's like Marmite: you either love it or hate it. One reason I do have REALLY high hopes for series 2 though is this: the simple fact that the finale of A2A beats the series one finale of LoM HANDS DOWN. It's got such a brilliant twist that was so brilliant at hiding in plain sight (quite literally, the killer of Alex's parents really WAS hiding in plain sight), and it made things just that little bit more interesting.

EDIT: However, having said that Bev, I must warn ya: i'm the kind of guy who thought that Donna in Doctor Who not only kicked the shit out of both Rose and Martha, but ranks alongside both Sarah Jane Smith and Ace as one of my favourite companions in the entire show. Make of that what you will.

State of Play is something i'm constantly kicking myself for not having watched. John Simm and Philip Glenister in a mini series written by the writer of Cracker...and yet it always slips my mind. No way will i be watching the remake though. Bleurgh!

Bev Vincent
03-17-2009, 04:36 PM
I thought Donna had her moments, but I liked her grandpa a lot more and thought he should have been offered a spin in the TARDIS at least once, because he would have absolutely loved it.

You can snag State of Play in various places, so it's not too late to catch up on it.

I've heard rumors of a good twist at the end of S1 of Ashes. Maybe I'll have to check it out at some point.

DoctorDodge
04-02-2009, 06:32 AM
So the US version of Life on Mars has finished. And from what i've heard of the ending...it's even lamer than Flagg's death!

Seriously...a hallucination that happens to a bunch of future people going to Mars...wtf?!?

Or maybe i'm just too much of a fan of the original. Personally, i thought the original ended perfectly. Then again I thought the original was perfect FULL STOP, so any slight change to the show was bound to fuck it up completely. When i see the US version over in the UK, i'll try my best to keep an open mind, but from what i saw of the first episode, Kietel's no match for the REAL Gene Genie!

Bev Vincent
04-02-2009, 07:25 AM
The last ten minutes was lameness defined. I choose to believe that the series ended when Sam kissed Annie and she said "Welcome to 1973." The rest of it was crap. "Gene hunt" indeed.

DoctorDodge
04-20-2009, 07:36 AM
Bev, finally got round to watching the entire series of State of Play. Bloody hell! John Simm clearly stars in only the BEST of tv drama, that's for sure! David Morissey? Well, i suppose he does too, since Basic Instinct 2 was just a shit film and not shit telly.

Anyway, brand new series of Ashes to Ashes starting soon in a few hours! Woohoo! :rock: Certainly will be back on this board later to discuss that! Personally, i've still got plenty of high hopes that series 2 of A2A will be as good as LoM. Proof of the potential it does have is in the last ten minutes of the series 1 finale, most of which i've included below.

Recap: it's the day Alex's parents died, and she's doing everything she can to stop it happening. Having destroyed her gay uncle's car which she remembers her parents driving that day by running it over with a pink tank at a gay pride march (seriously), and warning her dad about a threat against his life (which, of course, he has no concern about, being a lawyer 'n all), she resorts to save their lives by arresting them on possession of drugs. However, after a visit to the station by Lord Scarman and Gene Hunt pwning his ass with the kickarse speach of the century (well, last century), she's about to realise that her plans have just been fucked up...
YouTube - Ashes to Ashes Ending [Series 1] Finale

Afterwards it's revealed in a tape that the father had made, knowing that it would be discovered once he was dead, that he had found out about his wife's affair, and didn't believe life was worth living anymore, for him or his family. Upon Alex's godfather's request the tape was destroyed, so that Alex would never find out about what her father had done until she was ready to know.


Thought you'd be interested in an antidote to the AWFUL ending of the US Life on Mars, which, also thanks to youtube, i have now watched. Oh dear oh dear oh dear! It really was as bad as i heard it was!

Seriously, going to Mars...to find a cure for cancer. Cure...for cancer...huh? :wtf:

Bev Vincent
04-20-2009, 10:06 AM
I gave up on A2A about halfway through the season because I didn't like the main character. But I keep hearing about the "last ten minutes" of series 1, so maybe I'll have to check it out sometime. Haven't read the spoilers!

I think John Simm is one of the coolest actors working. Did you see him as The Master on Doctor Who? He has this self-assured swagger and comfortable ease.

DoctorDodge
04-20-2009, 01:25 PM
I think John Simm is one of the coolest actors working. Did you see him as The Master on Doctor Who? He has this self-assured swagger and comfortable ease.

Does the pope shit in the woods? (I don't know myself, but i just love using that phrase!) Course i saw him in Doctor Who! As a lifelong Doctor Who fanatic (ok, i'm only 20, but i've been a much longer fan of Who than a lot of other people), i've gotta admit that it was the most awesome thing when he said, "Why don't we stop and have a nice little chat while i tell you all my plans and you can work out a way to stop me?" Gotta be the coolest master since the original, Roger Delgado, and THAT'S saying something! But yeah, i've checked out so much of John Simm's stuff now, and i still don't think i've seen enough! Guy's a legend!

On the new series of Ashes to Ashes: opening episode was great. Not phenomenal, but a decent opener. Alex Drake seems to have gotten used to 1982 (it's moved forward six months now), and has learned to stop that annoying habit of saying what she's thinking out loud. So yeah, ever since her parent's deaths she's MUCH less annoying. Also, there's a much more interesting arc this series since Alex has appeared to made two new enemies: a very dodgy superintendent, who Gene seems to be a good mate with, and an unseen lunatic who seems very interested in Drake. That story wouldn't be nowhere near interesting if it weren't for the fact that he seems to be from the present day. :orely:

So A2A, like Torchwood, seems to have matured in its 2nd series after a shaky opening one which tried hard, maybe too hard, to step out of the shadow of the original. Of course, i'm only judging from the first episode, but like i said: Drake's much less posh, smarmy, arrogant, and just all round annoying. 'Nuff said!

Brainslinger
04-26-2009, 04:38 PM
I just found this thread. I love these shows! I loved Life on Mars. Quite liked Ashes to Ashes series 1, and I thought the new episode was great.

I though it an interesting twist that the start of the episode appeared to happen in the present day world, with 2 nurses. (We don't usually see the present day that clearly except the odd glimpse.) And then that rascal who kidnapped Alex. Very strange...

As for John Simm as the Master.... I thought he was just a bit too manic. It was as if he was just going for a more psycho version of Tenant's doctor (which to be fair might have been the whole point.) He wasn't bad though.

The previous chap was a lot more chilling, particularly considering he was so lovely before opening the fob watch. It's a shame they couldn't keep him on.

DoctorDodge
05-26-2009, 01:45 PM
Six episodes in, and series 2 of A2A has already proven itself to be just as good as LoM, and coming from a John Simm fan, that's saying something! With the exception of the last episode (which was dull and boring, tbh), I've been loving every minute of A2A, especially now that the ongoing mystery of working out if the people in a coma really are just in a coma. Hopefully, some questions will be answered before the end, such as:
- Who the fuck is Martin Summers?
- How the fuck did he get to 1982?
- Does he know how Sam and Alex got there?
- And is "Coma World" real after all?

Gotta say I can't wait for next week's ep!


As for John Simm as the Master.... I thought he was just a bit too manic. It was as if he was just going for a more psycho version of Tenant's doctor (which to be fair might have been the whole point.) He wasn't bad though.

The previous chap was a lot more chilling, particularly considering he was so lovely before opening the fob watch. It's a shame they couldn't keep him on.

I'm in two minds about that. Yes, Sir Derek Jacobi was magnificent as the old Master, and he really did have that whole Master vibe about him, but...John Simm kinda took the idea of the character back to its roots. Like you've said, it was like he was a psychotic version of the 10th Doctor, which kinda works for the character considering Delgado's Master was essentially a psychotic version of the 3rd. That's what made him so memorable, imo. Never did warm to Ainley's master, though. It was as if they were trying too hard to copy the success of Delgado's. And you just can't copy Delgado! Delgado will always be unbeatable! :thumbsup:

DoctorDodge
06-08-2009, 01:07 PM
JUST watched the series 2 Ashes to Ashes finale...regarding the ending...

oh...

my...

GOD! :o

OK, was anyone else expecting that? Cause that...that was just...that was BRILLIANT!

"Can you hear me, Bols? I need ya to wake up!"

I need some discussion on this asap! Anyone else watched it?

DoctorDodge
05-21-2010, 01:51 PM
Ok, so i know it's been nearly a year since the last post in this forum, but guys: i need some SERIOUS discussion on that ending. I mean bloody hell! I wasn't exactly surprised, the theory has been bouncing around for quite some time on a whole lot of message boards as to what would happen...but it was done so well and so right that I just simply love it. Anyone on here watched it?

Bev Vincent
05-22-2010, 09:16 AM
I'll check in within a day or two -- I haven't read more than the first few words of your post in case of spoilers, but I plan to watch the final episode shortly.

Bev Vincent
05-22-2010, 01:06 PM
OK -- excellent ending. I'm glad I gave Ashes a second chance. I surrendered after about three or four episodes but was encouraged by reports of the second series to give it another go. Satisfying resolution.

DoctorDodge
05-22-2010, 01:21 PM
Totally agree with ya there, Bev. I must admit, I was afraid when I heard reports that the ending would make everything clear - one of the things I loved about the ending of LoM UK was how ambiguous it was - and I was doubly afraid by all the characters beginning to see stars, as it reminded a whole lot of us of the atrocious ending to the LoM remake, but it was done beautifully, I think. There's only one problem I have with it, and that's the fact that it really does ignore the ending of series one where young Alex met Gene, but aside from that, everything else fits, and it was done so well that I just don't care, really.

Also, was it just me who was kinda reminded of the ending of the Dark Tower? Everyone seems to get a happy ending, moving on to another, better life, but leaving our main hero behind, essentially starting the story all over again? I mean it was a little more upbeat than DT, but there did seem to be a couple of superficial similarities.

Also, it's kinda funny thinking of Gene as the Manc Roland Deschain!

Bev Vincent
05-23-2010, 06:02 AM
I think there are probably some logical inconsistencies that mean that the ending of A2A shouldn't be scrutinized too closely or it might start to unravel. For example,

it would mean that Sam Tyler had to die twice--once at the beginning of LoM to get him into Gene's world and once again at the end.

I read that they bandied about the idea of bringing John Simm back for the finale but ultimately decided that Sam Tyler might upstage Alex on her own show so it never went beyond the discussion stage.

Bev Vincent
05-24-2010, 05:39 AM
Do you watch Lost? If so -- the finale...see any similarities?!

DoctorDodge
05-24-2010, 06:17 AM
Nope, i haven't, only watched the first 2 seasons. But I do have the internet, so by now, I've heard of the biggest similarities of the two shows endings. (Even if i didn't want to!)

Ugh, I should've just skipped to the end last night, methinks. I would've missed a lot, but with everyone going on about it, at least I would've been surprised with the rest of them!

Now, i've liked what I've seen of Lost. But then, I really enjoyed watching Ashes to Ashes. But which ending was better?

There's only one way to find out:

FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!

Bev Vincent
05-24-2010, 06:21 AM
Locke vs. Gene Hunt
Kate vs. Alex
Claire vs. Shaz
Sawyer vs. Ray
Sayid vs. Chris. (Okay, maybe Hurley vs. Chris)

Clacke
05-24-2010, 06:54 AM
Having seen both shows wrapped up this weekend, the impression I got was that Matthew Graham & Ashley Pharoah had pretty much mapped out how they were going to wrap up the 'Life On Mars/Ashes To Ashes' series from the outset - it was a very satisfying outcome.
With 'Lost', I think as the seasons went by, the writers tied themselves in knots, reached Season six and then went: " Oh oh, how are we gonna finish this!" Think they did a reasonable job but it left me going hmmm.

By the way, the acting in the Ashes To Ashes finale from the entire cast was astonishing! - some of the best performances I've seen in years!

Bev Vincent
05-24-2010, 07:56 AM
By the way, the acting in the Ashes To Ashes finale from the entire cast was astonishing! - some of the best performances I've seen in years!

Even from "Alex" -- who didn't really impress me all that much in the early episodes of the first season.

DoctorDodge
01-27-2011, 03:48 PM
Do you watch Lost? If so -- the finale...see any similarities?!

Ok, I know this over 8 months ago, but since I not only recently watched the Lost finale a couple of weeks back - plus all the Lost discussion going on - I felt it was time to give my take on just how oddly similar and yet, at the end of it all, very different those two endings were.

I like to think of this of as good example as any to show the difference between US endings to tv shows - or at least, the network shows - and the endings to a lot of UK ones. The concept of "it was all purgatory" was used in both, true, but whereas the purgatory in Lost was more of an epilogue to everything that had happened - a great big promise of a happy ending to all the characters as they find each other and journey into the next life together - with Ashes not only was it the story all along, but it was so much darker. It wasn't just a place where people could correct their mistakes and move on, it also had the huge risk to all the main characters that Lost didn't: namely, that they could not only make things worse for themselves in this copy of life, but that they would pay the ultimate price of eternal damnation if they did. I think it was genius for the writers to set this up by not only killing off (if you could call it that) the rather likeable character of Viv, but have him make a mistake so bad (even if it was done for the right reasons) that it's strongly implied he's in Hell to pay for it. That's just about the most evil thing i've heard done to a regular character in a tv show! Only in the UK, eh?

But i also love that Ashes still had its own little happy, or at least, bittersweet ending. A great one, in fact. I'm not saying that the Lost ending is terrible by comparison - far from it, as it was one of the most emotional endings i've watched in a show - but it's fascinating to see how both a UK and US show came up with a similar idea but took it in very different directions for their ending.

And as for Sam dying twice: it's been a few months, but was it actually stated that in order to get to Gene's world, you had to die? The writers obviously did a little bit of thinking about that, as they made subtle clues to the fact that, unlike in series 1 and 2, Alex was dead in the final series because she wasn't receiving any more messages from the real world. Still, the fact that both Sam and Alex heard them at all strongly implies that dying isn't a necessary part of ending up in Gene's world, but being in a coma, perhaps being very near brain dead, can also help get you there if you need to. How, i don't know, it's tv, but it's nice to see a little thought went into the final series, with all the nods and hints towards what it all was.

You know what? I really need to get that final series on dvd asap!

Merlin1958
01-27-2011, 04:05 PM
I have no idea what ur talking about:wtf:
I thought this thread was going to to have something to do with david bowie...


"Ziggy played Guitarrrrrrrrr"

LOL Me too!!!!!!!!!

DoctorDodge
01-27-2011, 04:18 PM
I think i might've recommended the show to ya before Merlin, but i'll explain the awesomeness of the show in short: Life on Mars is about Sam Tyler, a cop in 2006 who's hunting a serial killer. Problem is, he's finding it difficult when he's got a lot of modern day police procedural bullshit that can in some ways help the suspects go free rather than get formally charged. Worst, his girlfriend gets kidnapped by the killer he's chasing. Everything's going badly for Sam. That all changes, however, when he gets hit by a car and wakes up in 1973 (with a certain Bowie song blaring in the background when he wakes up). He has no idea why he's there, only that where he was once the boss in his own time, now he answers to alcoholic, sexist, chain smoking, racist bastard Gene Hunt. Life on Mars is the story of how he deals with police methods that rely entirely on instinct and ignore procedure altogether whilst trying to find a way home. It's also got one of the most awesome endings to a show ever.

Ashes to Ashes continues the story of Gene Hunt, but set 7 years later in 1981 with a different modern day copper. Grabbed your interest yet?

Merlin1958
01-27-2011, 04:25 PM
Yeah, I remeber LoM and gave it a shot when it was on Network TV for a while, but it go cancelled and I thought that was it. It was a good show, but we didn't get too much exposure. I well set my Tivo to look for "Ashes to Ashes". In the meantime watch out for the Diamond Dogs!!!!!!!


LOL

DoctorDodge
01-27-2011, 04:28 PM
You probably saw the ABC remake, which, imo, wasn't half as good as the original. For a start, the remake didn't have the Test Card Girl (see my creepy little sig for a visual reference) or John Simm. Check out the BBC original first before Ashes, if you can. BBC > ABC.

Merlin1958
01-27-2011, 04:39 PM
You probably saw the ABC remake, which, imo, wasn't half as good as the original. For a start, the remake didn't have the Test Card Girl (see my creepy little sig for a visual reference) or John Simm. Check out the BBC original first before Ashes, if you can. BBC > ABC.

Hey, I'll give it a shot. What no Bowie Song quotes?

"Ground control to Doctor Dodge" LOL LOL J/K

DoctorDodge
02-08-2011, 03:39 PM
Currently re-watching final series of Ashes to Ashes, and thought I'd give a review for every ep or so, since i didn't bother writing up any reaction till the final episode. Which is pretty criminal, considering how many times i went, "WTF?!?" or "OMG!" across all 8 episodes. Anyway, I'll do my best to give my thoughts on how i felt when i first watched it (as well as marked spoilers for how each ep connects to that amazing ending).

Just watched ep 2, so basically, this mega awesome moment is still fresh in my mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz8ppujjTXw

:rofl: That never gets old! Right, onto the serious stuff. I love that this ep was really focused on Shaz's character throughout, giving her essentially more development than she had in the previous 2 series. Plot was a bit standard, and not quite as full of witty dialogue as the first ep of this series, but I still love it for how much the writers are focused on the characters and their loose ends, especially in the final series.

However, nothing says "the end of everything since Life on Mars" as much as "It's a god awful small affair...to the girl with the mousy hair..." When I first saw that, I was in two minds: "WTF?!?" (yes, i keep having that reaction, but then, it's one of those series when reactions like that are fairly common for one reason or another) at a development I couldn't even begin to guess at, but also sadness that one of my favourite shows - nay, the story of one of my favourite characters really was coming to an end.

Speaking of the end, gotta love all those hints towards it:

The first appearance of the stars, although not a massive hint, all things considered.
Shaz's fear of screwdrivers. At the time I first watched it, I barely noticed it. After finding out what happened to Shaz though in the finale, I bloody loved it!
Nelson's voice and Life on Mars? heard for the first time since, well, Life on Mars. Brought real emotion to me when I heard that tiny snippet in this ep, so I'm glad they developed it further throughout the series.
Something I didn't notice until now: Alex still having plenty of trippy dreams and transmissions, but none of which are to do with the "real world". Genius hint on the writer's part at Alex's fate.


Right, i'll probably squeeze in another ep or two tomorrow and add a review then. Or maybe even squeeze another ep in tonight? It is a great and addictive final series, I must say.

ICry4Oy
02-09-2011, 06:10 AM
I've never seen the BBC LOM but tried watching the American version and got bored to tears with it about 3 eps in and stopped watching. But if the clip you posted is any indication of what the show's about, I'll pass. I detest musicals [I'd put a little puking smilie here if we had one].

Bev Vincent
02-09-2011, 06:25 AM
The UK edition of Life on Mars is 1000 times better than the dreary US remake. I almost gave up on Ashes to Ashes during the first season because I didn't like the lead character all that much, and never grew to like her as much as Sam Tyler, but I'm glad I stuck with it until the end. It's not a musical, but there are dreams and possible hallucinations involved in the story, which leads to scenes like the one above. They are rare and put to good effect. Gene Hunt rocks. I follow his twitter feed!

ICry4Oy
02-09-2011, 06:41 AM
In that case I may have to give it a try. Eli Stone was a show that did that with the singing and dancing and I liked it very much in spite of it.

Bev Vincent
02-09-2011, 06:49 AM
I liked Eli Stone, too, and wish it had gained traction with an audience.

DoctorDodge
02-09-2011, 03:52 PM
Admittedly, the clip is only awesome in context of the show. Suffice it to say, it's about as random as seeing Locke and Ben in Lost singing "Guy Love" from Scrubs. To get an idea of what Gene Hunt is actually like on a good day, here's a short clip of one of his many classic rants:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYeNuCTf_PE


The UK edition of Life on Mars is 1000 times better than the dreary US remake. I almost gave up on Ashes to Ashes during the first season because I didn't like the lead character all that much, and never grew to like her as much as Sam Tyler, but I'm glad I stuck with it until the end. It's not a musical, but there are dreams and possible hallucinations involved in the story, which leads to scenes like the one above. They are rare and put to good effect. Gene Hunt rocks. I follow his twitter feed!

Couldn't have described it better myself, Bev! By the way, as someone who watched brief clips of the US version (before seeing the ending and throwing up for several hours), I'm interested to know, did the US version have any kind of dream sequences or hallucinations like the UK version had? I did see a moment when Sam saw tiny robots, but did it ever make really random references to 70s pop culture like the original, but more focused on US references? Because the dream sequences, whether they were terryifying (especially in the case of that bloody Test Card Girl) or bloody hilarious, they were usually my favourite moments. To be honest, being only 22, at least half of them i didn't quite get the reference, but it never stopped me from laughing my arse off. This particular moment being one of my favourite examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHP3Jih_rfA

Bev Vincent
02-09-2011, 04:54 PM
There were some dream sequences, but they weren't as pervasive as they were in the original.

Jean
07-20-2011, 11:41 AM
bears are watching! ep.2 at the moment. A great scene in the hospital - the ring, the fight ("What on earth is going on?" - "Police officers!"), and all. Everything so far has been wonderfully conceived, written, acted and directed. I said it before, but I will be happy to repeat it in this thread: it is, first and foremost, an extremely intelligent show.

ETA: ... and yes, I too remember the time when you could smoke everywhere!

DoctorDodge
07-20-2011, 12:18 PM
Oh, i love that hospital scene! Bloody hysterical! And then to have that nice little speech by Hunt afterwards about how much he loves his city...it's magical how easily this show could shift in tone, sometimes. Not just with comedy or drama but even the nice little moment of horror, too. (I assume you've seen the Test Card Girl by now, Jean? I love that moment: it's the kind of moment that's simultaneously horrifying and, for this Brit at least, hilarious in equal measure by the sheer ridiculousness of it.) I know what you mean about how well acted it is, too, especially with John Simm in the lead. This show really made me take notice of him, and he's usually bloody brilliant in everything I've seen him in so far. He also seems to team up with co-star Glenister quite a lot too in other productions. Which reminds me: I still need to check out their most recent show Mad Dogs. That certainly looks to be a show I'd enjoy from how "wtf?!?" it looks!

Really pleased you're enjoying the show so far anyway, Jean! I'd hate to think I'd recommended you something you thought sucked! :lol:

Jean
08-14-2011, 10:36 AM
it is incredible, the way it is directed. At the beginning of ep 2, they are running down the stairs on the street: first the perpetrator, who scares the old woman climbing the stairs with her wheelbag, then Gene who almost pushes her, then Chris who upsets her bag, and finally - Sam who picks it up. All that to the sound of Live and Let Die.

DoctorDodge
08-14-2011, 10:44 AM
Who, if I remember correctly, is of course the one who gets hit by the old lady!

I also love the way the Test Card Girl's first appearance is handled: first Sam sees her on the tv saying, "What are you smiling at Mona Lisa?", before a corner of the room lights up and she's in the room with Sam. The way it's shot, the lighting, and of course, Sam's very believeable reaction to the whole thing: it is one of those rare moments - not just in tv but also in film - where it's simultaneously terrifying and fucking hilarious at the same time! It is, in short, insane. Just another classic example of why I enjoy watching this show over and over again so much!

Jean
08-14-2011, 10:48 AM
Who, if I remember correctly, is of course the one who gets hit by the old lady!
Yes, YES!!!


I also love the way the Test Card Girl's first appearance is handled: first Sam sees her on the tv saying, "What are you smiling at Mona Lisa?", before a corner of the room lights up and she's in the room with Sam. The way it's shot, the lighting, and of course, Sam's very believeable reaction to the whole thing: it is one of those rare moments - not just in tv but also in film - where it's simultaneously terrifying and fucking hilarious at the same time! It is, in short, insane. Just another classic example of why I enjoy watching this show over and over again so much! Oh, every fucking scene is classic!

DoctorDodge
08-14-2011, 10:55 AM
Oh, every fucking scene is classic!

You're right there. I was just remembering the interrogation between Gene, Sam and the suspect from the same episode. I could go on about how fantastic it is from beginning to end (especially with Gene being absolutely ruthless to the suspect and smacking him every time he opens his mouth), but I really just wanted to mention (one of) my favourite quote(s) from the episode:

"You know, if you were Pinocchio, you would've just poked my eye out!"

Jean
08-14-2011, 11:15 AM
oh yes! and now I've just watched again that awesome scene with the blood on the street, where the clash of truths is articulated to the extreme
... now on to my other favorite, the hospital...

and one of my favorite quotations: "can I have a year that is AD, as opposed to BC?"

but, of course, the whole thing is quotable. As I re-started today, I thought I would post quotes, but it is hopeless: as with our other favorite movies, would have to quote entire thing

DoctorDodge
08-14-2011, 11:34 AM
Very true. I can't begin to praise it enough, really. Heather watched it, and whilst she enjoyed it at first, she did admit that she got bored of the cop show aspect of it. Really, a lot of the cases are really basic or really predictable. It's hardly the mystery of solving the crime that grabbed my interest in watching it, as I get very bored of a lot of cop shows myself. It's, well, everything else we've discussed that make it such a joy to watch. As you said, it's one of those rare shows where it's not what's on the surface that matters, but rather the number of layers and hidden depths where it's true appeal lies.

Jean
08-15-2011, 01:00 AM
Yes. I don't care a flying fuck about the mystery, or, as I have said many times, about any immediate contents of a work of art. The three best (non-Polanski) films I've recently seen deal, respectively, with British teenagers' subculture of the 60s, unemployed actors, and zombies - couldn't care less about any of these.

watching ep.3 now - again, perfect visuals to get the idea across. How to show that someone was born for the job he does? He drives to the crime scene with a sandwich clamped between his teeth!

DoctorDodge
08-15-2011, 01:05 AM
I also love how Sam uses one of Gene's own lines at the very beginning of the ep. And how completely unconvincing he sounds when he does it.

Ok, i need to rewatch this show again asap! (After Dogtooth, of course!)

Jean
08-15-2011, 01:13 AM
I also love how Sam uses one of Gene's own lines at the very beginning of the ep. And how completely unconvincing he sounds when he does it. and I love how you always come up with exactly the part I wanted to mention in my post, and didn't only because too long posts would distract me from watching for too long... http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearmood_cheerful.gif

DoctorDodge
08-15-2011, 01:25 AM
I know the feeling! Like I said, it's one of very few shows where I make it a habit of watching it at least once a year.

Jean
08-15-2011, 01:36 AM
"Blood pattern analysis, by D.H.Cromby"
"I'll wait for the film, thanks"
"Oh, you'd like the book. It's got pictures"

DoctorDodge
08-15-2011, 01:41 AM
"Is my name 'Coco'?"
"...what?"
"Why are you trying to make me look like a clown?"

Jean
08-15-2011, 02:20 AM
... and the whole "police radio" thing. God, I so love films to be finely crafted, and they just don't get much more so than this one.

(and the tape recorder, of course... )

Bev Vincent
08-15-2011, 05:26 AM
Anyone else follow Gene Hunt on Twitter? He used to be more active, but he still pops up from time to time.

DoctorDodge
08-15-2011, 05:29 AM
Been a while since I've been on twitter. Yes, I follow him on it. Some of his jokes are terrible puns, but they still make me laugh! :lol:

Jean
08-15-2011, 08:46 AM
Oh shit, it's already ep.6! when it's over, there'll be only two to go... (yes, I know there's another season, but I want this season.)

I think I could count on my fingers the times when movie characters felt so close. I know I do not want to part with them - not only the big two, but Annie, Chris, Phyllis... Well, luckily I have three more hours ahead

DoctorDodge
08-15-2011, 08:59 AM
I like how you keep referring to the series or elements of the series as a 'movie'. Or at least, enjoy each episode in its own cinematic way. I think that's another thing I really enjoyed about LoM: the way it's shot, the way each story unfolds, it all does have that rare cinematic quality that a lot of shows strive to achieve but few rarely do.

By the way Jean, have you found anywhere to watch the 2nd season yet? Because all those characters you're loving at the moment - Sam, Gene, Annie, Chris, Ray, even the city of Manchester itself (which is as important to the show as the actual characters are, I think), you've still got those for another 8 episodes before Ashes starts (that's if you'd be interested in watching it when Life on Mars ends, as I think it ends rather brilliantly, so much so that you might not feel the need to see "what happens next" to most of the characters, as it were).

Jean
08-15-2011, 09:40 AM
I like how you keep referring to the series or elements of the series as a 'movie'. Or at least, enjoy each episode in its own cinematic way. I think that's another thing I really enjoyed about LoM: the way it's shot, the way each story unfolds, it all does have that rare cinematic quality that a lot of shows strive to achieve but few rarely do.
This. Have just visited the site where I take movies from and read the Life On Mars comments - it is a Russian site, of course, but people understand everything. They write, among other things, I quote, "after every episode one feels like one has seen a full-length feature film". Precisely.


By the way Jean, have you found anywhere to watch the 2nd season yet? Because all those characters you're loving at the moment - Sam, Gene, Annie, Chris, Ray, even the city of Manchester itself (which is as important to the show as the actual characters are, I think), you've still got those for another 8 episodes before Ashes starts (that's if you'd be interested in watching it when Life on Mars ends, as I think it ends rather brilliantly, so much so that you might not feel the need to see "what happens next" to most of the characters, as it were). Yesyesyes!!! Silly old bear thought next season was already Ashes, got it all mixed up! So happy now - yes, I found it, and it seems to have an English soundtrack (well, if it doesn't, the long story will begin again... let's pray everything is all right)


even the city of Manchester itself This, yes! I adore it in a movie.

Jean
08-16-2011, 01:54 AM
ep.7

"If everything is so wonderful in Hyde, why are you hanging around my department like the smell of last night's haddock? You could have gone back any time you fancied. The truth is, you like it here, you just can't bear to admit it".
Spoken at exactly the right place and time, under the exactly right circimstances; totally natural and right to the point.

They do it continuingly, consistently, and it is a miracle. It is a subtle thing to do.

In ep. 6 the voices say, "let's remove his catheter, call the nurse!" - and Annie, dressed up as a nurse, appears from around the corner. At gunpoint. Done easy, with one screenwriter's and director's combined effort, without blurring, slo-mo, special effects or whatever else inadequate filmmakers have to use to induce insanity on their watchers. It's a supermegaclassic moment in this already supermegaclassic movie.

DoctorDodge
08-16-2011, 02:18 AM
ep.7

"If everything is so wonderful in Hyde, why are you hanging around my department like the smell of last night's haddock? You could have gone back any time you fancied. The truth is, you like it here, you just can't bear to admit it".
Spoken at exactly the right place and time, under the exactly right circimstances; totally natural and right to the point.

They do it continuingly, consistently, and it is a miracle. It is a subtle thing to do.

I love that speech. (But as you pointed out earlier Jean, the whole thing's so damn quoteable I could say that about practically any line!) Just that moment, of really being forced to think about how much Sam might be enjoying this life, and if he isn't looking at his previous life with rose-tinted specs, is again another classic moment, done with the right words and the right performance.

Also: Disco 2000 on the radio at the Indian restaurant. Love that moment, for three reasons. One, it's one of my favourite songs ever. Two, it's perfectly used. And three, Sam's reaction to it, again another reason why I think Simm is just brilliant with the role he has to play. In that specific moment, you do feel sorry for him and the situation he's in, even though, paradoxically, we both know he's more likely happier here than he is in the real world. The fact that this show can so easily fuck with your emotions like that...you know what, I don't think I have the words to say just how fantastic that is.


In ep. 6 the voices say, "let's remove his catheter, call the nurse!" - and Annie, dressed up as a nurse, appears from around the corner. At gunpoint. Done easy, with one screenwriter's and director's combined effort, without blurring, slo-mo, special effects or whatever else inadequate filmmakers have to use to induce insanity on their watchers. It's a supermegaclassic moment in this already supermegaclassic movie.

Another reason for me to watch this again: I had completely forgotten about that. You're right, that is a fantastic use of subtlety. I bet you're really glad there's still another 8 eps to watch of this show!

Jean
08-16-2011, 07:09 AM
fuck, fuck, fuck!!!!!!!!!!

have downloaded the remaining files, and subtitles. Now, they don't fucking fit. I have synchronized them ten times, and every ten fucking seconds they galop forwards, so by the end the difference is a few fucking minutes. I either have to stop every twenty seconds and re-synch, which is NOT my idea of enjoying a movie, or switch the subs entirely off and lose at least 15% of the dialog.

does someone know if there is any way to do something about this? I don't understand. I have already downloaded two sets of subtitles, and they both do the same - something must be, obviously, wrong with the movie file (but what? fucking what? it plays TOTALLY normal)

I have KMPlayer, GOM player, and something else

DoctorDodge
08-16-2011, 07:20 AM
No idea Jean. Have you tried downloading the movie file again but from a different source?

As for having your technical question answered by someone with more know-how, you could try asking in a thread that's more widely read, like In Your Mind Right Now or displeased & bothered (because to be delayed at the last ep of series 1 after watching so many fantastic eps one after another is incredibly fucking annoying!)? Sorry I can't be of more help to ya than that!

Jean
08-16-2011, 07:24 AM
I don't have another source!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll try to ask it in the special thread

DoctorDodge
08-16-2011, 11:21 AM
Ok, just as a random question, Jean: would it matter if the subtitles were on all the time, and not as something you could switch on and off?

Jean
08-16-2011, 08:56 PM
on and off is best, because I need them only time to time, mainly when everyone talks at once, fast, and refer to things I may not know, or use slang I am not used to

DoctorDodge
08-16-2011, 11:39 PM
Thought as much. And how long is the movie file exactly?

Because, if all else fails, I do have (a) the episode on my dvd and (b) dvd ripper software, so I should be able to get a copy of the ep on my computer and upload it to, well, somewhere hopefully reliable, if you point me in the right direction. I just want to check if the copy of the ep you have is just a fraction of a degree slower than what I have on dvd. I also need to check if it's able to do subtitles as an option or not.

DoctorDodge
08-17-2011, 10:35 AM
Rewatching the first episode. No matter how many times I watch it, I love how this show begins: fast cut chases, arrest warrants, protected suspects, it's all very modern. Then we have the accident, and everything slows right down as we arrive with Sam in 1973. Also, the nice use of colour to illustrate the differences between the 2 worlds, with the modern day being all bright and rather bland in a way, and then it's toned down in 1973 and much more colourful and, ironically, much more real. Yes, I never get tired of watching this!

Jean
08-17-2011, 12:36 PM
Thought as much. And how long is the movie file exactly?

Because, if all else fails, I do have (a) the episode on my dvd and (b) dvd ripper software, so I should be able to get a copy of the ep on my computer and upload it to, well, somewhere hopefully reliable, if you point me in the right direction. I just want to check if the copy of the ep you have is just a fraction of a degree slower than what I have on dvd. I also need to check if it's able to do subtitles as an option or not.
oh that's a great idea! I'll try to sort it out tomorrow, again, and if all else fails, we'll try.

Rewatching the first episode. No matter how many times I watch it, I love how this show begins: fast cut chases, arrest warrants, protected suspects, it's all very modern. Then we have the accident, and everything slows right down as we arrive with Sam in 1973. Also, the nice use of colour to illustrate the differences between the 2 worlds, with the modern day being all bright and rather bland in a way, and then it's toned down in 1973 and much more colourful and, ironically, much more real. Yes, I never get tired of watching this!Very, very true all that. I think if I can't get the last 8 any time soon, I'll start an early re-watch...

DoctorDodge
08-17-2011, 12:45 PM
Just finished the 2nd episode. Even now, I love noticing little things. Nelson's greeting of "Heyhey, pilgrim!" says so much about Sam and his situation with only a couple of fucking words, for crying out loud! Speaking of few words, Gene saying "Special glass?" never fails to make me laugh my fucking arse off, but also the funniest moment of the episode is really done with no words at all: the criminal pointing a gun at Sam and saying, "From what I've seen, your DCI will be glad to get shot of ya!"

The look on Sam's face is priceless every single time! :rofl:


I think if I can't get the last 8 any time soon, I'll start an early re-watch...

Considering how much I still enjoy this show, after so many times watching it, I really can't say I blame ya!

Jean
08-18-2011, 12:58 AM
1 hour, 1 min and 33 sec

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 01:00 AM
Thanks, Jean. Soon as i get home, I'll try ripping the ep off the dvd. I think it's a little shorter than that, by about a minute or so. I'll let you know what the exact length is and whether I can get subtitles as optional, too.

Jean
08-18-2011, 02:07 AM
wait, I'll try to watch it (I have already begun, and seems like it works) this way: I keep a finger on a special key, and just press it time to time, to resynch (finally found out how to do this without recurring to the whole tedious and distracting procedure). So far, so good.

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 02:16 AM
Fantastic! So you should be able to enjoy series 1 complete after all!

Now you just need to find series 2. Again, let me know if you have any difficulty finding those eps, as I've got that on dvd as well. Bought box sets as much as a present for the family as much as it was for me: as wildly different as our tastes are usually, it's one of those rare shows where we can just sit down and enjoy any episode of at any time.

Jean
08-18-2011, 02:26 AM
the best part is, that I really need subtitles only once: as soon as I learn what was it in the incomprehensible place, I won't forget it, so on the re-watch I just won't need any

So!!!!!!! At last, the second set of the first session! Today! Another Life on Mars marathon for the bears, I so needed it (my own life on Mars has been giving me some hell, so nothing could be better as one day of total relaxation, with such a movie to watch!)

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 02:49 AM
Fantastic! Be sure to continue posting new insights when you can - it's very rare that I get the chance to discuss this show so heavily. Hell, I think you and I have made almost as many posts on this topic in the past week as it's received in the past 2 years since I made it! :lol:

Jean
08-18-2011, 03:03 AM
phew! we're only warming up

Jean
08-18-2011, 03:08 AM
"The world isn't what they think. How do you think it makes me feel?" - again, with surgical precision.

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 03:49 AM
I think my favourite line from the episode (when you finish it) is,

"I would never fit anyone up who...who didn't deserve it." I love that line, and the way it's handled. Suddenly, we're given a direct parallel with the 2nd ep of series 1, where Sam stopped Gene from planting evidence on someone he knew would strike again unless he was stopped. Both Sam and Gene faced the same moral problem of whether they should stop a criminal by illegal means - Gene from his knowledge of the criminals M.O., Sam from his knowledge of the future - and ironically, no matter what Sam said in the 2nd episode, he took the same path that Gene planned to take. Of course, the irony isn't lost on Sam, either. No matter how much they argue and fight all the time, Sam and Gene are, at the end of the day, more alike than either would care to admit.

And of course, it shows how much Sam has changed and blended in since he arrived in 1973. Last time he repeated a line of Gene's, back in ep 3 when he said he "would come round his house and stamp on all his toys", it sounded completely unconvincing. Here, he not only means what he said, but he didn't even think that he was repeating something that Gene said until the words were out of his mouth.

Fuck, I love how this show can cram so much into a single line like that, and so naturally, too!

Jean
08-18-2011, 04:01 AM
re: the content of your spoiler box

I just came here to post exactly the same.

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 04:46 AM
And to think there's still 7 more eps for you to enjoy! Naturally, I'll be looking forward to your thoughts on how it all ends most of all, but that's only a little more anticipation than discussing, say, any other episode!

Jean
08-18-2011, 04:53 AM
"you were connected to Hyde 2612"

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 05:34 AM
"'Every son kills his father.' My dad used to say that to me."

Jean
08-18-2011, 05:49 AM
it is getting more insane in the second season. Bears like it. the only thing that I didn't like that far is the back-to-the-future-y developments (although mainly handled with taste and tact); but I realize that it would have been hard to avoid them. Will see where it is all heading; though, of course, even if it ends up in some totally trivial manner, nothing would subtract from its greatness.

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 06:02 AM
I think you'll be satisfied with where it goes, Jean. Maybe even moreso in the rewatch when you know where it's heading. However, for now, there's still plenty more to enjoy.

And you're right about it getting even more insane in season 2. The final episode? That, I'm pretty sure you're gonna love!

Jean
08-18-2011, 06:05 AM
That, I'm pretty sure you're gonna love! cheap, Dodge. It's the safest bet you've made in your life, considering how I already love the whole thing.

The only cause of my frustration is that I have only 6 and a half episodes ahead of me. Yes, I know there is Ashes to Ashes. But I also know there's going to be no Tyler.

Why couldn't it be eighty and eighty instead of eight and eight? Seems like they just didn't care enoough about bears or doctors.

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 06:13 AM
To end it before it got stale like too many shows do (particularly in the US). And because Simm wanted to move onto other things, which I can't say I'm surprised about - he does seem to be one of those serious actors who likes to have as much variety as possible with his work.

But yes, it is a shame we only have 16 eps. Even the writers said they would've been happy to have done just one more series with Tyler. Ashes to Ashes is good - well, from its 2nd series, anyway - but, well, you and me both know just how bloody well near perfect Life on Mars is.

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 01:31 PM
Ep 3 of series 1. The shots when Gene's starting up his car...it's hard to find a better way to describe it other than it's a great way of making an awesome car ten times more awesome! It feels suitably retro, the kind of thing you just don't see anymore. Reason #10538 of why I love this show so much. No, #10531. #10538 is the ending of series 2, episode 5.

DoctorDodge
08-18-2011, 01:50 PM
"Liar. LiarliarliarliarliarliarLIAR!"
"Liar!"
"I want talk to some sort of lawyer."
"A liar?"
"A lawyer!"

:lol:

Jean
08-19-2011, 12:20 AM
oh, no, or else we'll re-quote the whole screenplay here.

"I don't think it's ethical"
"No, it's vodka"

DoctorDodge
08-19-2011, 01:49 AM
Another great moment of direction that I hadn't thought about before: in episode 4, after Sam finds out that the police are on "good relations" with a man called Steven Warren, Sam and Gene drive to a club, we see a shot of them getting out of the car following them, with Sam asking, "This is Warren's place, isn't it?", and Gene's response of, "There's no flies on you, is there?"...

...before we eventually pan to the name of the club in big fat letters: THE WARREN.

Fantastic how this show uses great direction and great writing not just for moments of insanity or great chases, but also for great visual comedy.

Jean
08-19-2011, 02:18 AM
a superb sequence of visions at the beginning of ep 5 (season 2); rather wicked, too - the Oh, Shit! sign isn't just a roadsign, but a crossing guard's with a bunch of kids.

ETA

"Annie, I'm seeing things!"
"Oh, you're always seeing things!"

this suddenly cracked me up real big

DoctorDodge
08-19-2011, 02:37 AM
Oh yes! And the Camberwick Green sequence: "Is he kicking in a nonce?" The little waves that model Hunt gives (and the nonce he's beating up, too) always cracks me up! But yes, the whole trippy sequence overall is brilliant.

Oh, and my favourite line from the ep?

"I haven't been to the pub in 36 hours!"
"...shit."

I think what I like about that line is Sam's reaction: he's fully aware of how difficult it must've been for Ray to stay away from the pub for so long. In fact, if we compare how he is now to how he is when he first joined, I think this episode makes it clear that, whilst he may still argue with Gene and Ray from time to time, he's much more a part of the group than he was when he first arrived. Which is one of the few things that makes me glad of the low episode count: a big part of the appeal of the show is Sam's journey, about how much he changes during his time in 1973. And whilst him being completely against the group in the first couple of episodes always makes for fantastic drama, you couldn't really have that for every episode. Equally, him fitting in completely wouldn't have half as much appeal either. This may just be me, but that single moment of being surprised at Ray not going to the pub actually kind of signifies the beginning of the end for Sam's story.

Jean
08-19-2011, 03:23 AM
Yes. Yes. I know. I could have said that myself. It makes perfect sense. True.

BUT I DON'T WANT IT TO END!!!

only three and a half to go! and then - what? how soon is a re-watch allowed?

like all long stories with characters you fall in love with, it is fucking addictive...

Jean
08-19-2011, 03:32 AM
: rolling in stitches :

"... and I ask again, only slightly louder: "HOW?!!"

DoctorDodge
08-19-2011, 03:33 AM
Well, I like to aim to re-watch the series at least once a year, but I usually fail at that: 9 times out of 10, it's usually much sooner. Especially if something reminds me of a tiny example of how great it could be, such as the Live or Let Die sequence at the beginning of ep 2, or Ballroom Blitz in ep 3, or...well, I think we both know how incredibly numerous those examples are, so I'll stop listing them.


like all long stories with characters you fall in love with, it is fucking addictive...

Indeed it is. Of course, the ironic thing is that, as you pointed out, compared to a lot of tv series it really isn't that long. So to build that sense of attachment to characters over such a relatively short space of time is a testament to the skill involved.

DoctorDodge
08-19-2011, 07:06 AM
Btw, Jean: when you do finish watching the series, would you mind posting some thoughts on what you thought of the series as a whole? When I say 'some thoughts', I mean a review with the same level of detail and depth as your Polanski reviews. Should definitely make for great reading, especially from someone who (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to watch very little television compared to films. As i think I said before, despite the number of times I watched the show, I never really considered just how extremely well directed it was until you pointed it out. It was one of the things that made me want to give it a re-watch so soon after my last one, if i'm honest: seeing all the things I had missed before, beyond the outstanding writing and acting in the show.

Jean
08-19-2011, 07:27 AM
when you do finish watching the seriesthis line just broke my heart. I will have finished in about two hours.

DoctorDodge
08-19-2011, 07:30 AM
Shit. Well, maybe this will make things easier: an actor who appeared in one of your favourite films appears in the last two episodes. I won't say who, at least not yet, but you probably won't recognise him at first.

Jean
08-19-2011, 08:15 AM
wow, no, not at first, not even at second! I even had to re-check. Everything about these characters is exactly the opposite, what awesome versatility!

DoctorDodge
08-19-2011, 10:06 AM
Yeah, it took me a few goes before I realised it as well!

http://andytoots.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/danny_withnail-and-i.jpg?w=409&h=235
DCI Frank Morgan (when he had hair)

Jean
08-19-2011, 10:26 AM
OMG OMG OMG

I have finished...

...what do I have to do now? restart right away? are there any other options left?


Btw, Jean: when you do finish watching the series, would you mind posting some thoughts on what you thought of the series as a whole? When I say 'some thoughts', I mean a review with the same level of detail and depth as your Polanski reviews. Oh I'd be happy to! The only problem is, I write those big reviews after a 20th or so re-watch... so the first attempt might be very rough; but I so want to write about this anyway. You know, like, not to part with it so abruptly. Come to think of it, this might be one of the main reasons why we write the reviews, basically.


Should definitely make for great reading, especially from someone who (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to watch very little television compared to films. Well yes, you're wrong and I have to correct you: "from someone who never watches any television if he can help it" is a closer approximation to the morbid truth.

DoctorDodge
08-19-2011, 10:45 AM
I'm guessing you enjoyed the ending as well, then? It's one of my favourite - no, sorry, sorry, that's completely wrong, it is my favourite ending to a tv series ever. The use of Over The Rainbow was fantastic, not to mention fucking heartbreaking. And then we have the true ending, when he takes a leap of faith, and finds his way back. Beautiful. And the final words of the series? Some dramatic monologue, or someone telling us what happened over the years afterwards?

Nope, it's Sam and Gene bickering, before the Test Card Girl turns the tv off. Brilliant.

Brings me to tears for all the best reasons every fucking time!

Jean
08-19-2011, 11:05 AM
Yes. Yes.

I have so much in my head now it might explode. I will start sketching the rough draft of the review right now.

DoctorDodge
08-19-2011, 03:20 PM
Can't wait to read it. By the way, here's a little bit of trivia I thought you'd be interested in: obviously, the Wizard of Oz has a small but noticeable influence on the story, which the writers acknowledge when appropriate, but an even bigger influence of course is 70s British cop show the Sweeney, with Gene Hunt essentially a Mancunian version of main character DI Jack Regan. Now, here's something awesome about Frank Morgan: not only was he based heavily on Regan's boss DCI Frank Haskins, as played by Garfield Morgan, but of course he was also named after the actor who played the Wizard of Oz. That's freaking brilliant and fantastically ironic when you consider episode 2 when Gene says he's going to phone someone to send Sam home: "Hello, is that the Wizard of Oz? The Wizard will sort it out, it's because of the wonderful things he does!" To think that Morgan essentially is the character responsible for sending Sam home is just a fantastic little detail.

Oh, one more thing: when Sam returned to 1973 and is talking to Annie at the end, did you notice the rainbow at all? Because it took me a couple of goes to notice it. It's the little details like that that make me continually love watching and re-watching this show!

DoctorDodge
08-20-2011, 06:39 AM
Currently watching: ep 7 of series 1.

I love this episode. (Actually, that can be said for all of them, but this is probably in the higher end of my top 16 favourites.) It really highlights Sam and Gene's relationship. When Gene says he wants to discuss procedure with Sam over dinner, before revealing that "the missus is away, and I don't eat alone," that I quite liked. It's a nice enough moment to show that Sam and Gene have formed a good friendship over the past 7 episodes.

Also, love the moments of reality breaking through into 1973. Not only because I always love the added psycological edge these trippy moments add to the show, but also because it's fucking hysterical how the doctors efforts to wake Sam up always push his sanity to near breaking point! :lol:

Jean
08-20-2011, 06:55 AM
no, I didn't notice the rainbow!!!!!!!!! I bet I didn't notice a thousand more things. It warrants a thousand re-watches.

I am trying to put something together on paper (well, in an MSWord file) now - and, to give me some run-up, am trying to watch the first three episodes of the USA version.

Hunt is the only one who amounts to something - he can never match the real Hunt, but at least he is not a total nonentity. Which all the rest of them are, including the director, the producer, the gaffer and the best boy. Sam and Annie are nauseating... or would be, if any of this could induce any emotion. Nothing to look at. Nobody to love. Everything bland, flat, dead - as if the adaptation was carried out by the langoliers; isn't this, in fact, what any American adaptation is about - castrating, devitalizing, removing all living soul? God is in details. Yes. Fucking God is in fucking details, and the soul of a movie is in subtle things, in what I called being finely crafted. All gone, all gelded out.

Do I regret deciding to watch some episodes of this version? No. The original is all alive in my mind now; it's like negative proof.
Will I watch more than the three eps I have already downloaded? Hardly.

DoctorDodge
08-20-2011, 07:16 AM
no, I didn't notice the rainbow!!!!!!!!! I bet I didn't notice a thousand more things. It warrants a thousand re-watches.

Absolutely. Fantastic they can include such tiny little details like that.


I am trying to put something together on paper (well, in an MSWord file) now - and, to give me some run-up, am trying to watch the first three episodes of the USA version.

You're a braver man than I, to watch a whole 3 eps: I've seen bits, and Keitel's copy of "Drop your weapons, you armed bastards!" was enough to convince me it couldn't be as good as the original. Well that, and the horrendously laughable ending that I watched on youtube. Jean, I want you to think of the dumbest, most cliched hollywood ending you can think for such a show. Think about it very carefully. Make sure it's really dumb. I'd bet good money it matches what the US version actually did pretty darn closely!


Hunt is the only one who amounts to something - he can never match the real Hunt, but at least he is not a total nonentity. Which all the rest of them are, including the director, the producer, the gaffer and the best boy. Sam and Annie are nauseating... or would be, if any of this could induce any emotion. Nothing to look at. Nobody to love. Everything bland, flat, dead - as if the adaptation was carried out by the langoliers; isn't this, in fact, what any American adaptation is about - castrating, devitalizing, removing all living soul? God is in details. Yes. Fucking God is in fucking details, and the soul of a movie is in subtle things, in what I called being finely crafted. All gone, all gelded out.

But hey, at least they made up for it by including a shot of the Twin Towers for real emotional impact! Hardly a cheap trick to induce emotion into a sensitive audience at all!


Do I regret deciding to watch some episodes of this version? No. The original is all alive in my mind now; it's like negative proof.
Will I watch more than the three eps I have already downloaded? Hardly.

Well, at least we both know how terrible it is Jean. Can't wait to read your detailed review on the original. (And did you read my spoiler free review for the members of this board who've yet to watch it in the "Recommended shows we SHOULD be watching" thread?) Would you ever consider watching Ashes to Ashes? I can understand if you're reluctant to: Life on Mars wrapped up so perfectly and so neatly that a sequel show seems unnecessary. And at first, it does, in a way: series 1 begins so different, with the London setting and lighter tone, not to mention a new main character who starts out as just annoying in the first series. But series 2 and 3 are worth a watch, more so than the US Life on Mars, at least.

Jean
08-20-2011, 07:51 AM
Jean, I want you to think of the dumbest, most cliched hollywood ending you can think for such a show. Think about it very carefully. Make sure it's really dumb. I'd bet good money it matches what the US version actually did pretty darn closely!

well, I would venture a guess that everything was caused by some cause - I mean, Cause, - something to do with saving mankind; maybe preventing world war three? making the world safe for democracy, anyway



But hey, at least they made up for it by including a shot of the Twin Towers for real emotional impact! Hardly a cheap trick to induce emotion into a sensitive audience at all! oh hell, I had hoped I hallucinated it. It's like the Holocaust scenes in Shutter Island - surely there must be some limits? like, I don't know - shame? Conscience? Mere sense of proportion? Fat fucking chance.


And did you read my spoiler free review for the members of this board who've yet to watch it in the "Recommended shows we SHOULD be watching" thread?) Yes, I just did! great as usual http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif


Would you ever consider watching Ashes to Ashes? I can understand if you're reluctant to: Life on Mars wrapped up so perfectly and so neatly that a sequel show seems unnecessary. And at first, it does, in a way: series 1 begins so different, with the London setting and lighter tone, not to mention a new main character who starts out as just annoying in the first series. But series 2 and 3 are worth a watch, more so than the US Life on Mars, at least. Well, the order will be as follows:

1. Bears write the LoM review
2. Bears re-watch W&I
3. Bears write a big, fat W&I review
4. All of that with a couple of The Tenant rewatch in between, but this, of course, goes without saying
5. They consider whether it's too early to undertake a total LoM re-watch
6. They re-watch at least some eps thereof
7. They start debating seeing Ashes

Jean
08-20-2011, 09:17 AM
ok, I could stand only one and a half episode. Don't see no point in staring at nothing for hours.

Haven't laughed even once for all this time, nor even smiled, either, by the way.

DoctorDodge
08-20-2011, 10:08 AM
Jean, I want you to think of the dumbest, most cliched hollywood ending you can think for such a show. Think about it very carefully. Make sure it's really dumb. I'd bet good money it matches what the US version actually did pretty darn closely!

well, I would venture a guess that everything was caused by some cause - I mean, Cause, - something to do with saving mankind; maybe preventing world war three? making the world safe for democracy, anyway

Close, but actually it was even dumber than that: the ending is actually, and I'm not even fucking joking, Sam waking up in 2035 to suddenly remember that both 2008 and 1973 were computer simluations designed to keep his mind occupied whilst sleeping two years on a voyage to...yep, you guessed it: Mars. The reason? To go on a "gene hunt" and find a cure for cancer.

Oh, and Obama's daughter is president.

No, I'm seriously not fucking joking!


oh hell, I had hoped I hallucinated it. It's like the Holocaust scenes in Shutter Island - surely there must be some limits? like, I don't know - shame? Conscience? Mere sense of proportion? Fat fucking chance.

But Jean, remember: it's important to have our brains bashed in with real life tragedy to be moved by a fictional show because we're all fucking morons! But seriously, yes, agreed. I can understand the use of such a moment if it contributes in any way to the story, or even when it's carefully used in satire - for example, to mock the news's tendency to exploit a tragedy rather than merely report it - but yes, it's particularly tasteless when it's done for nothing more than exploiting an emotional reaction.



And did you read my spoiler free review for the members of this board who've yet to watch it in the "Recommended shows we SHOULD be watching" thread?) Yes, I just did! great as usual http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

Thank you! Thought it was in dire need of a seriously in depth reason of why more people on this board should watch it. But, if I just have to settle for in-depth discussion with you and Pond, that's good enough for me!


Well, the order will be as follows:

1. Bears write the LoM review
2. Bears re-watch W&I
3. Bears write a big, fat W&I review
4. All of that with a couple of The Tenant rewatch in between, but this, of course, goes without saying
5. They consider whether it's too early to undertake a total LoM re-watch
6. They re-watch at least some eps thereof
7. They start debating seeing Ashes

Darn good list, I have to say. And at the very least, some time does need to pass for our characters before we do meet Gene, Ray and Chris again. Another thing I loved about the final episode: it set up its sequel show in a tiny subtle way that didn't ruin the ending of Sam's story, which was by far the most important part of the final episode. No cliffhanger ending, no clumsy introduction of the new main character, just a little reference by Sam that a police psychologist was interested in his story. Like i said, another nice little thing that I liked about the final ep.


ok, I could stand only one and a half episode. Don't see no point in staring at nothing for hours.

Haven't laughed even once for all this time, nor even smiled, either, by the way.

Can't say i'm surprised, mate. I'm just glad I warned you to look for the UK series rather than watch the remake by mistake! Would've hated you to have made you watch the shitty remake by accident!

Jean
08-20-2011, 10:30 AM
Re: the content of your spoiler-box.

You can't be serious, right? This is just not real. I am imagining the whole thing. It just... it can't be happening.

and by the way, did you find Wag the Dog?
(the association isn't very far-fetched, as you shall see)

DoctorDodge
08-20-2011, 10:35 AM
No Jean, I'm not joking. I'd like to think that the whole remake was a very clever extended satirical joke for our benefit, but unfortunatly I'd have to concede to the far more likely explanation that the writers of this show were that fucking stupid.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxI_UwYThgU&feature=related

And no, not found Wag the Dog yet. To be honest, I keep forgetting about it, but now that I've finished UK satire The Thick of It, I'll keep an eye out for it to keep my satirical hunger satisfied!

DoctorDodge
08-21-2011, 03:03 PM
Ok, currently re-watching ep 3 of series 2, and something at the beginning of the episode made me think about the ending.

Specifically, how the expert believes that when Sam wakes up, his brain isn't going to be ok. Thinking about it, he may have had a point: Sam could no longer feel anything when he woke up, whether it was physical pain, or caring in the slightest about the people and the world around him.

It's not much, but I do like it when little foreshadowings like that are tastefully done.

EDIT: Also, just watched the moment where Gene kicks Sam's door down again and Sam asks, "Don't you ever knock?" :rofl: Fucking hilarious, that moment!

Jean
08-23-2011, 11:58 PM
1. A Symphony in DCI Major

I am going to refer to it as a “movie” or “film” from here on – because it is. Although it consists of episodes, and is intended to be seen on the small screen at home, I just can’t make myself call it a “series” or a “show”: it is a cinematographical masterpiece. Intelligent. Grown-up. Finely crafted. Perfect.

When I have watched it a couple more times, I think I will give a more coherent account of its brilliance; I feel that if I start right now, before I’ve done some sorting out, I will just recount the film frame by frame. Take this, from ep.2:

The door of the ambulance closes on us, and Sam stands there alone, while everyone else stands together.
Close-up, slowly turning: in grief and confusion, he stains his face with his bloodied hand: none of this bright-red movie blood, either – some brownish muck.
He turns to his colleagues, obviously for support. Hunt and Ray stand shoulder to shoulder, and their faces read no compassion.
The angle is changed, and the POW is over their shoulders (from behind), like over a monolith wall – showing Sam, small and unhappy, standing there precisely in the middle of the shot, being its axis, in front of the beautiful, formidable car reading POLICE – the concept, of which he has been trying to represent whatever is good, true, lawful, ethical and honest.
Then he walks towards them (us), and it is not an easy walk.

It’s only a few seconds, and the whole movie is like this – as a movie should be, actually – with every single shot telling its own story, which, in its turn, only serves the big story. I have chosen a piece with no action and no dialog, or it would be immensely difficult to analyse. For example, the tension of this scene will soon explode in one of the most moving scenes I know (and the pathetic, squeaking “We had no evidence!!!”, along with the difference in weight and posture between the opponents, really does a lot to drive the emotional point home), which it would take a few pages to fully describe, such a lot is condenced into a less than a minute there.

Actors actually act. This is what can be rarely seen nowadays. They play their parts. They do not pretend they are some real-life people caught by a hidden camera. They don’t mumble their words inaudibly, nor try to make a bland facial expression pass for subtle manifestation of inner life, “just like real people”: they play; very old school.

The modern “natural’ acting is one of my pet peeves, so I’ll elaborate on this a bit. I’ve heard quite a few times that today’s actors play “better” than the old ones, because they are more “natural”; to me it sounds like bullshit. To help you see my point, imagine some painting – say, Mona Lisa (to make sure everyone has seen it at least once) – and try plastering some real hair and cloth instead of those painted. No, it wouldn’t be more natural – because “more natural” and “more life-like” in art is achieved by quite different means, sometimes demanding that the artist step as far away from the immediate reality as possible. The same goes for all kinds of art, and cinema is no exception. Whenever it aims for truth, it should use its means fully.

Everything is used fully in this film, from color to sound. I don’t even know if I should dwell on the obvious – how hilarious it is, and what incredible dialog you can hear all the time. Another thing is that the dialog isn’t just indiscriminately witty interchangeable pieces; everyone speaks true to his personality.

It is classic filmmaking, with attention to details, with shots carefully framed, with this precious quality of multilayered fabric. You can just live the movie immediately, or you can analyze what it is that makes you enjoy it to such an extent; you can pause it and enjoy the minute details; you can rewind it back and pay special attention to the expression on Chris’s face. The miracle of real cinema is that no detail is lost even if you didn’t seem to notice it – they work anyway as parts of the whole – but new and new hues and shades and overtones and little things can be discovered on re-watches; ideally, a perfect film is inexhaustible. I am sure Life on Mars is.


2. The Times, They Are a-Changin’

I am going to be very non-PC now, I apologize in advance.

Everything is wrong in ’73, and in our world Gene Hunt would be charged with a separate hate crime for every word he utters, let alone every action he undertakes. So would be the rest of them. Women, children and pets included.

I wonder what would have happened in the world Sam left if a colleague smacked Maya’s ass… A psychological trauma, and endless reminding of how her humanity was trampled upon and how degrading the whole experience was... charges of harrassment and attempted rape?

Annie resolved the problem in a single second, asserted her dignity, gained the respect and admiration of her male colleagues, made a giant step forward towards being truly accepted – and she did it as a mature human being. Annie became part of the team without becoming a source of threat and a constant pain in the ass, and at the same time without losing an ounce of her femininity; she became a professional without becoming a bitch (I am not using this word as a put-down: many women today proudly refer to themselves as such). She does her job, and she does it well; she remains a woman instead of aspiring to become a quasi-man, and you know what? I am sure if Sam was lying in coma here in ’73, it would never cross her mind to say goodbye and “move on”. No, she would have stayed by his bedside for as long as it took, while there was any hope and after there was none. She is very unprogressive, that woman.

That’s why Sam jumped from the roof to be with her.

The horrible, primaeval, wild, sexist, chain-smoking, alcoholic, homophobic, ribald Gene Hunt is at the same time a formidable, magnificent, generous, fearless man, fanatically devoted to the job he does, a born charizmatic leader - in other words, a hero. Separate one side from the other, and you’ll destroy him, and thus the team he built, and thus the cause they serve. Remove him from society, and society is castrated.

And a castrated society is managed by Morgans, who are ready to “make an example” of a live person and sacrifice a few living souls to make the example more convincing. Eliminate Hunts, reduce everyone to one politically-correct common denominator, and soon you’ll march in columns under this or that totalitarian banner.

If he is a brain tumor, it is a tumor that can be removed only together with the whole brain. That’s what we see happening around us now. It’s like smoking, you know. The choice between smoking and non-smoking is the choice between the peril of cancer and that of Alzheimer disease; modern society has opted for Alzheimer.

3. Back to the Future

Sometimes the inevitable happens, and Sam has to face his own past. These parts are implausible, weak, lame: as if they were, indeed, products of a comatose mind which desperately tries to find out the whys and hows. This, to my mind, is exactly what they are: as it is always in the case of a really great work of art, I don’t want to ascribe this inadequacy to any other reason than the inner necessity. I could say the filmmakers succumbed to the spectators’ expectations, or just screwed up, but I’d much rather believe it is too part of the big picture – and then everything fits together.

And in the big picture, Sam is lying in the coma, presumably dying of a brain tumor. We keep being reminded of this, but the ’73 world seems so real, so much more real than what we usually call “real”, especially in the cinema of late. Alrighty then: here come the jarring note. Sam meets his father, stops him from murdering Annie, meets Maya’s mother, stops her from murdering Maya… and crowns all this with the impalatable “Maya is a beautiful name”. Hi Marty McFly. Surely the figurants in big cases had to be family-related and set on exterminating the investigator’s loved ones. The very far-fetchedness, clumsiness, implausibility of the stories, confirmed by how both times the chain of events results in his saving his girlfriends speaks, no, screams louder than if it had been explicitly said: this is a product of imagination. This world is not real, after all.

The theme is strategically placed in yet another respect: right when we started wondering when the Back to the Future/A Sound of Thunder line would appear, and expecting the thing to turn out perfectly rational, at long last. See Groundhog Day. See you-know-what. Do it right, and you’re saved. (: yawn : )

Fat chance. We are given a fake sideline, a red herring. No, this is not the reality; no, there is no easy answer. Father, Maya’s mother and all this nonsense are just more elaborate manifestations of the Test Card Girl. The more simple-minded in the audience can be satisfied, though – he did save his beloved ones both times, didn’t he? Then they are left wondering why he is still there.

But hey, no, he wasn’t “sent there” to “righten something”, nor even to “make a difference”. He got there because it was where he belonged.


4. Rosemary’s Baby and the Langoliers

The classic Rosemary’s Baby trick consists in intended ambiguity. We are given only one point of view, within which we can never know what is actually happening. Was the woman impregnated by Devil or did she hallucinate? Is there a devil or is it the group insanity of the sect? Seeing by the protagonist’s eyes and sharing his experience alone, we can never tell.

We know that none of the explanations we’ve been offered hold water. It can’t be Hyde because, unlike Tyler himself, we know for sure that he didn’t invent the reality of our time: “special glass” and mobile phones actually exist, he didn’t make them up. It can’t be all a product of a comatose mind, because this world, with the sand in the fire buckets and faces never repeating however long you walk, with its colors and talks, feels to us more real than the bland, colorless world he left; this is the world where he can feel. It can’t be real, however, because we know that he is lying there in the ward: we saw him there.

Every time we are lulled into forgetting the doubling of worlds, a reminder comes swiftly, efficiently, at the points chosen with surgical precision. Every time it is both sudden and expected, the way Sam himself must feel it. Every time it happens, our grip on reality slips a notch.

In Rosemary’s Baby, the first sequence of her delirious dream, lasting only a few seconds, blows the mind by its impeccable visionary quality, achieved by frugal means. No special effect I’ve ever seen can match this austere, stark way of immediately taking us beyond reality. I wondered if I’d ever see anything to give me the same feeling of instant slipping, in an equally simple and elegant way.

By no means did I ever expect to find it in a TV series.

The simplicity and elegance, the immediatness of the perception, the irreparability of the gap between the realities, everything is there every time the other world – the point-of-the-departure world – manifests itself. It reaches its climax in a scene with the hostages. “We’re about to remove his catheter. Call the nurse”. And the nurse appears from beyond the corner, at the gunpoint. Neat. Easy. Fucking brilliant, breathtaking. Overwhelming. It is one of those moments when our logic gives up comletely, but at some deep level where all rationalization stops we know what is going on.

But what is going on, after all? Coma, time travel, purgatory, multiverse?

None of this matters shit. If the world grows too complicated to be explained, just ask yourself: why do you want an explanation? Out of curiosity, or because you are too weak to make a choice? It’s not “why” or “how”, it is entirely “what to do now”. An explanation would serve as a crutch, but the solution consists in learning to walk.

The world he left was just like the one from The Langoliers: flat. Stale. Lifeless. When we move on in time, the place dies. But what if the time was not ours to begin with? Maybe when we are out of place, in the wrong place or time, the place does the same. It grows stale and dies on us. Go then, there are other worlds that these… or are there? Or this is an idle question, asked only as an excuse not to do anything before a definite answer is given. But there is no time to waste in the world that is alive, not after you’d been given an opportunity to live your life in your time and place. Even if this life is actually death. Or isn’t. Who cares?

DoctorDodge
08-24-2011, 12:29 AM
Who cares indeed? And it's brilliant that at the end of the series, it's not just us that are asking that question: finally, it's Sam as well. He no longer cares about what is "real", in his personal definition across the whole series. He just wants to find a way back, to what truly matters to him, like he thought he was doing in the first episode. The crucial difference between the two moments with him at the top of the building? In 1973, Annie stopped him. In 2006, no one was there. When all is said and done, that's what counts.

Anyway, brilliant review as ever, Jean. Will discuss much more (obviously) when I finish work, but this is, as expected, fantastic reading!

Jean
08-24-2011, 12:33 AM
The crucial difference between the two moments with him at the top of the building? In 1973, Annie stopped him. In 2006, no one was there. OH SHIT I MISSED IT ALTOGETHER!!! I mean, on the rational level - it all works deeper inside anyway. Good Lord, what a lot more there must be to all this! I'll start re-watching as soon as I finish W&I re-watch and review; maybe will find me some Ashes to Ashes to put in between.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Messages/snuggleupbear.gif

DoctorDodge
08-24-2011, 12:41 AM
I know! There's a ton of shit I've missed that I read in your review, and I've watched it countless times. I'm not exaggerating, I really have lost count the number of times I've watched it from start to finish since it ended in 2007.

Such as last night, when Sam cut himself and couldn't feel anything: only now do I remember the moment in episode 2 at the beginning with the "real/unreal" moment in the mirror: he cuts himself (which always makes me flinch, even though we don't actually see anything, it's Sam's reaction that does it) and he feels pain. Again, another brilliant comparison that makes the leap of faith he makes such a natural choice to make.

DoctorDodge
08-24-2011, 12:57 PM
1. A Symphony in DCI Major

I am going to refer to it as a “movie” or “film” from here on – because it is. Although it consists of episodes, and is intended to be seen on the small screen at home, I just can’t make myself call it a “series” or a “show”: it is a cinematographical masterpiece. Intelligent. Grown-up. Finely crafted. Perfect.

Considering how many films you've watched, and how it can clearly take a lot for you to fully enjoy a film, I think that's already high praise right there. Who knows, I may even have to sig it later!


When I have watched it a couple more times, I think I will give a more coherent account of its brilliance; I feel that if I start right now, before I’ve done some sorting out, I will just recount the film frame by frame. Take this, from ep.2:

The door of the ambulance closes on us, and Sam stands there alone, while everyone else stands together.
Close-up, slowly turning: in grief and confusion, he stains his face with his bloodied hand: none of this bright-red movie blood, either – some brownish muck.
He turns to his colleagues, obviously for support. Hunt and Ray stand shoulder to shoulder, and their faces read no compassion.
The angle is changed, and the POW is over their shoulders (from behind), like over a monolith wall – showing Sam, small and unhappy, standing there precisely in the middle of the shot, being its axis, in front of the beautiful, formidable car reading POLICE – the concept, of which he has been trying to represent whatever is good, true, lawful, ethical and honest.
Then he walks towards them (us), and it is not an easy walk.


As you pointed out, it is indeed fucking fantastic how it can tell so much with just so little. A particular favourite shot of mine is in episode 7, where Sam's in the bathroom and hearing voices again, standing in front of the bathroom mirrors. In just that moment of simplicity, of seeing Sam seeing himself in multiple reflections, we're given a clear idea of what it's like to feel insane, and with no CGI trickery, no quick cuts or playing around with flashbacks: just a perfectly placed shot of Sam in front of a mirror. The writing's something I've always enjoyed and is primarily what I look for in a tv show, but you are right Jean, the directing and cinematography is something that demands to be noticed for its excellent quality.


Actors actually act. This is what can be rarely seen nowadays. They play their parts. They do not pretend they are some real-life people caught by a hidden camera. They don’t mumble their words inaudibly, nor try to make a bland facial expression pass for subtle manifestation of inner life, “just like real people”: they play; very old school.

The modern “natural’ acting is one of my pet peeves, so I’ll elaborate on this a bit. I’ve heard quite a few times that today’s actors play “better” than the old ones, because they are more “natural”; to me it sounds like bullshit. To help you see my point, imagine some painting – say, Mona Lisa (to make sure everyone has seen it at least once) – and try plastering some real hair and cloth instead of those painted. No, it wouldn’t be more natural – because “more natural” and “more life-like” in art is achieved by quite different means, sometimes demanding that the artist step as far away from the immediate reality as possible. The same goes for all kinds of art, and cinema is no exception. Whenever it aims for truth, it should use its means fully.

Quite right. Everyone in 1973 are clear, defined people with personality, (something incredibly important to the show that I'll get to in a minute,) and it's all helped by the actors doing their jobs so bloody well. Real life is boring, so why pretend we're watching it? What we're instead treated to are excellent performances that, like everything else in this film, bring it life perfectly.


Everything is used fully in this film, from color to sound. I don’t even know if I should dwell on the obvious – how hilarious it is, and what incredible dialog you can hear all the time. Another thing is that the dialog isn’t just indiscriminately witty interchangeable pieces; everyone speaks true to his personality.

Incredibly true. There are too many tv series these days that take themselves far too seriously and incorporate little humour. The humour was something that made Life on Mars essential viewing when my family first watched it: that we could watch a gritty cop show with fantastic stories and great chases, but we could still laugh our arses off at every episode.


It is classic filmmaking, with attention to details, with shots carefully framed, with this precious quality of multilayered fabric. You can just live the movie immediately, or you can analyze what it is that makes you enjoy it to such an extent; you can pause it and enjoy the minute details; you can rewind it back and pay special attention to the expression on Chris’s face. The miracle of real cinema is that no detail is lost even if you didn’t seem to notice it – they work anyway as parts of the whole – but new and new hues and shades and overtones and little things can be discovered on re-watches; ideally, a perfect film is inexhaustible. I am sure Life on Mars is.

Me too. Mostly because I've watched it so many times and yet, there will always be things that I missed, always moments that had far more to see and interpret than I first thought. And not in the shallow kind of sense that many a tv show tries to do, which is include supposedly cryptic lines for people to guess over and try and work out how it relates to the series in a future episode. No, Life on Mars was very much a right here and now show, a film that provided subtle moments to miss the first time that can enhance your viewing experience right then and there. I've mentioned before the beauty of repeated lines and shots in the show, of how when they are done, they have significance and they have meaning. Something that many tv series have tried to do, and yet rarely do it in the way that Life on Mars achieved.



2. The Times, They Are a-Changin’

I am going to be very non-PC now, I apologize in advance.

Everything is wrong in ’73, and in our world Gene Hunt would be charged with a separate hate crime for every word he utters, let alone every action he undertakes. So would be the rest of them. Women, children and pets included.

I wonder what would have happened in the world Sam left if a colleague smacked Maya’s ass… A psychological trauma, and endless reminding of how her humanity was trampled upon and how degrading the whole experience was... charges of harrassment and attempted rape?

Annie resolved the problem in a single second, asserted her dignity, gained the respect and admiration of her male colleagues, made a giant step forward towards being truly accepted – and she did it as a mature human being. Annie became part of the team without becoming a source of threat and a constant pain in the ass, and at the same time without losing an ounce of her femininity; she became a professional without becoming a bitch (I am not using this word as a put-down: many women today proudly refer to themselves as such).

Perfectly summed up. Yes, Annie lived in a world full of sexism, but at least she lived in a world where she was allowed to deal with it in her own way, and not be told how she should not only deal with it but also how to fucking feel about it, too. Sexism isn't something to condone, but neither should be trying to control how people should think, should behave, should act. And yet that was the kind of world that Sam came from. Considering that, it was hardly something that was going to stop him from trying to get back to Annie, was it?


That’s why Sam jumped from the roof to be with her.

Indeed. It's rare these days to have such a fantastic romantic story done so boldy and so brilliantly, but, like so many things, Life on Mars did it exactly right, and it wasn't afraid to do it.


The horrible, primaeval, wild, sexist, chain-smoking, alcoholic, homophobic, ribald Gene Hunt is at the same time a formidable, magnificent, generous, fearless man, fanatically devoted to the job he does, a born charizmatic leader - in other words, a hero. Separate one side from the other, and you’ll destroy him, and thus the team he built, and thus the cause they serve. Remove him from society, and society is castrated.

Is it any wonder that in this day and age, he became such an iconic hero over here in Britain? He sees things clearly, that innocent people need to be protected, not criminals, and that it should always be achieved by any means necessary. He doesn't torture or beat up criminals for the sake of it, unlike Ray, but he will do it if he thinks it's the only possible way to stop a bastard from committing a crime. He always sees himself as "the Sheriff" of Manchester, and that's exactly what he is, at least according to the American Western classics he enjoyed so much. And quite right, too.


And a castrated society is managed by Morgans, who are ready to “make an example” of a live person and sacrifice a few living souls to make the example more convincing. Eliminate Hunts, reduce everyone to one politically-correct common denominator, and soon you’ll march in columns under this or that totalitarian banner.

And this reminds me of my earlier point of how important personality is in 1973. People smoke, they wear untidy clothes, they joke, they talk to each other, and not in a "professional work manner" way, but in a human way. These are people who care about each other. Unlike Morgan, a man who keeps everything in order, makes peoples desks neat, tidy, devoid of all personality, devoid of all soul. There's a line of Phyllis that made me laugh that seems to be a perfect example: when Hunt tells her to be on the only one to answer the phone, her natural response is of course, "What if I need to go to the toilet?" "Cross your legs!" It's a natural question to ask, but it also makes it clear that she's a human being. In 2006, when Sam's in the meeting, what do we hear being discussed? Just the ethics of how prisoners should be treated, nothing else. When Sam looks at their faces, do we see smiles? Confusion at Sam's behavior? Any emotion at all? No. All we see are faceless creatures, zombies, devoid of all personality. Dead men walking. No, not even that: dead men sitting in rooms discussing about criminals rather than catching them. And Sam realised he was one of them. Yet another reason why it made nothing but total sense for him to jump: if he was going to be dead, at least let him die risking everything for the chance to get back to a place where he felt alive.



3. Back to the Future

Sometimes the inevitable happens, and Sam has to face his own past. These parts are implausible, weak, lame: as if they were, indeed, products of a comatose mind which desperately tries to find out the whys and hows. This, to my mind, is exactly what they are: as it is always in the case of a really great work of art, I don’t want to ascribe this inadequacy to any other reason than the inner necessity. I could say the filmmakers succumbed to the spectators’ expectations, or just screwed up, but I’d much rather believe it is too part of the big picture – and then everything fits together.

And in the big picture, Sam is lying in the coma, presumably dying of a brain tumor. We keep being reminded of this, but the ’73 world seems so real, so much more real than what we usually call “real”, especially in the cinema of late. Alrighty then: here come the jarring note. Sam meets his father, stops him from murdering Annie, meets Maya’s mother, stops her from murdering Maya… and crowns all this with the impalatable “Maya is a beautiful name”. Hi Marty McFly. Surely the figurants in big cases had to be family-related and set on exterminating the investigator’s loved ones. The very far-fetchedness, clumsiness, implausibility of the stories, confirmed by how both times the chain of events results in his saving his girlfriends speaks, no, screams louder than if it had been explicitly said: this is a product of imagination. This world is not real, after all.

The theme is strategically placed in yet another respect: right when we started wondering when the Back to the Future/A Sound of Thunder line would appear, and expecting the thing to turn out perfectly rational, at long last. See Groundhog Day. See you-know-what. Do it right, and you’re saved. (: yawn : )


Which makes me wonder how much of Sam hearing the "real world" is actually true, or if he's literally hearing what he wants to hear. The moment when doctors say that he had been attacked by a mental patient locked up for over 30 years makes right after he sent Tony Crane away to a mental institution is, as you pointed out, ridiculously unlikely: even in the event that Sam had somehow travelled through time, how had Tony Crane escaped from the institution in the first place. And yet, this hardly seems like a plot hole when you take into consideration that being unsure of what's real and what's not is such an incredibly vital part of the show. Far more likely that Tony Crane was caught trying to kill Sam and was arrested, but Sam instead just wanted to give himself another reason to believe in 1973, that he could genuinely change things and make a difference. It's debatable, impossible to be sure what's real and what's not, but then, isn't that the point?


4. Rosemary’s Baby and the Langoliers

The classic Rosemary’s Baby trick consists in intended ambiguity. We are given only one point of view, within which we can never know what is actually happening. Was the woman impregnated by Devil or did she hallucinate? Is there a devil or is it the group insanity of the sect? Seeing by the protagonist’s eyes and sharing his experience alone, we can never tell.


But what is going on, after all? Coma, time travel, purgatory, multiverse?

None of this matters shit. If the world grows too complicated to be explained, just ask yourself: why do you want an explanation? Out of curiosity, or because you are too weak to make a choice? It’s not “why” or “how”, it is entirely “what to do now”. An explanation would serve as a crutch, but the solution consists in learning to walk.

Exactly: for an entire series, we never truly leave Sam's perspective. Even in the episode with flashbacks to 1972, we see those flashbacks because Sam is seeing them. When we move away from the action, it's only because Sam is watching it all on a tv screen. And right until the very end, we're still not given a clear answer as to what the world of 1973 was, or at least, no clearer than before. From beginning to end, we never leave Sam's point of view.

And when we do? When he heads off into the sunset, bickering with Gene? The Test Card Girl just switches the tv off for us. We're not meant to see any more now that the story is over.

Which is something that makes Ashes to Ashes a fundamentally different show. Plotwise, I won't go into too much detail for you Jean, but unlike Mars, we do have a few key scenes without the main character, sadly dulling the psychological edge that Mars had, and when I heard that the writers planned to reveal all the key secrets and mysteries in the final episode, I was apprehensive, particularly since I loved the Life on Mars ending so much and because the shit abc ending had only been a few months before. Now, did I find the explanation given at the very end satisfying, Jean? Surprisingly, yes, I did. I don't mean just plotwise, but emotion, too. The finale of Ashes to Ashes isn't as good as Life on Mars, I'll be honest with you there, but for me, it comes incredibly close, as it wasn't just a pointless twist ending, but a natural conclusion that was fitting for all the characters we had loved over both series.

And yet, on the whole, I don't think the ending of Ashes to Ashes has affected how I view Life on Mars in the slightest. It's like the moment where Morgan "reveals" to Sam that he has amnesia and that he's been hallucinating 2006 all along. Logically, we know that can't be true, but Sam doesn't, he's on his own in this world, and he doesn't know anyone there who can tell him that 2006 wasn't a figment of his imagination. In this respect, this is far, far better than anything Scorsese tried to do with Shutter Island. It's Sam's perspective that truly makes this work, so that whatever knowledge we are given, whatever knowledge we have of the end or even beyond, Sam doesn't know any of it, and that's just one more reason why Life on Mars is worth watching, again and again.

Oh, and thanks for the heavily detailed review again, Jean. Always something I enjoy spending an hour (or two or three) reading and discussing with ya. Especially where Life on Mars is concerned. There's a lot of points I've yet to bring up yet! Maybe I'll save those for our next rewatch! :lol:

Jean
08-26-2011, 02:27 AM
Considering how many films you've watched, and how it can clearly take a lot for you to fully enjoy a film, I think that's already high praise right there.
oh yes... bears are extremely hard to please. Lately, in fact, they have been at the peak of their unhappiness with most existing cinema. I couldn't fucking believe it when you started avalanching unknown masterpieces on me. I am ready to kick myself for not putting two and two together and realizing earlier that if you hit the mark with the four movies, you could hardly fail with a "tv show" (for lack of a better word in this particular sentence). I could have watched it half a year ago, and known it by heart by now. On the other hand, I so wish I could watch it for the first time again!


Who knows, I may even have to sig it later!

bears would be greatly honored



As you pointed out, it is indeed fucking fantastic how it can tell so much with just so little. A particular favourite shot of mine is in episode 7, where Sam's in the bathroom and hearing voices again, standing in front of the bathroom mirrors. In just that moment of simplicity, of seeing Sam seeing himself in multiple reflections, we're given a clear idea of what it's like to feel insane, and with no CGI trickery, no quick cuts or playing around with flashbacks: just a perfectly placed shot of Sam in front of a mirror. The writing's something I've always enjoyed and is primarily what I look for in a tv show, but you are right Jean, the directing and cinematography is something that demands to be noticed for its excellent quality.Don't know how much of the USA version you could stand; maybe you know that they obediently reproduced this episode. The simple and obvious fact that they failed to produce any similar impression might require a complex and not-quite-so-obvious analysis in the future.


Incredibly true. There are too many tv series these days that take themselves far too seriously and incorporate little humour. The humour was something that made Life on Mars essential viewing when my family first watched it: that we could watch a gritty cop show with fantastic stories and great chases, but we could still laugh our arses off at every episode.I have always toyed with the idea of dissecting humor in cinema, and try if it can be submitted to any analysis. Especially humor in movies that are not meant to be purely comedies. I think I could try to undertake something like this later, with the example of some of our favorite films. I know I would fail to provide answers, but it would be just such fun to do that I think I will try some day, with your help.


Me too. Mostly because I've watched it so many times and yet, there will always be things that I missed, always moments that had far more to see and interpret than I first thought. And not in the shallow kind of sense that many a tv show tries to do, which is include supposedly cryptic lines for people to guess over and try and work out how it relates to the series in a future episode. No, Life on Mars was very much a right here and now show, a film that provided subtle moments to miss the first time that can enhance your viewing experience right then and there.
This.
Yes, it is straightforward, honest, and doesn't play any silly games. There are few things I hate little than the creators of a movie recurring to puzzles and peddling and exhausting intellectual exercise as a genuine work of art. Another thing to match that one is to use technical tricks and rabid camera behavior (like the quick cut you refer to below) to camouflage director's inadequacy. Both catastrophies are not just avoided - they are scorned by Life on Mars, which produces a paragon of clear and coherent narrative, where the complexity comes from the complexity of the theme that is treated, not the author's fear that without a clever riddle the audience might be bored.


I've mentioned before the beauty of repeated lines and shots in the show, of how when they are done, they have significance and they have meaning. Something that many tv series have tried to do, and yet rarely do it in the way that Life on Mars achieved.I need a rewatch.

NOW.


Perfectly summed up. Yes, Annie lived in a world full of sexism, but at least she lived in a world where she was allowed to deal with it in her own way, and not be told how she should not only deal with it but also how to fucking feel about it, too. Sexism isn't something to condone, but neither should be trying to control how people should think, should behave, should act. Special thanks for this, DD. I've been trying to say exactly the same a lot of times, and never could put my finger on actually how to say it.


Indeed. It's rare these days to have such a fantastic romantic story done so boldy and so brilliantly, but, like so many things, Life on Mars did it exactly right, and it wasn't afraid to do it.
Looks like they were not afraid of anything at all. It's like the film was made by perfectly free people who did exactly what they were going to, without any consideration for what people would say and how different target groups might react.


And this reminds me of my earlier point of how important personality is in 1973. People smoke, they wear untidy clothes, they joke, they talk to each other, and not in a "professional work manner" way, but in a human way. These are people who care about each other.
<...>
In 2006, when Sam's in the meeting, what do we hear being discussed? Just the ethics of how prisoners should be treated, nothing else. When Sam looks at their faces, do we see smiles? Confusion at Sam's behavior? Any emotion at all? No. All we see are faceless creatures, zombies, devoid of all personality. Dead men walking. No, not even that: dead men sitting in rooms discussing about criminals rather than catching them. And Sam realised he was one of them. Yet another reason why it made nothing but total sense for him to jump: if he was going to be dead, at least let him die risking everything for the chance to get back to a place where he felt alive.


sums it up for me...

(more later)

DoctorDodge
08-26-2011, 03:17 PM
I am ready to kick myself for not putting two and two together and realizing earlier that if you hit the mark with the four movies, you could hardly fail with a "tv show" (for lack of a better word in this particular sentence).

To be fair, I did say I liked Lost. But I love Life on Mars. To put it mildly!


I could have watched it half a year ago, and known it by heart by now. On the other hand, I so wish I could watch it for the first time again!

Oh, I know! You'll watch it, over and over and over again, and still love it to bits, always discovering something new each time, but yes. Seeing it for the first time, knowing you're watching something really special from the moment Sam wakes up in 1973, and knowing that what you're going to watch will be unlike anything you've ever watched....yeah, that feeling doesn't come back, it's just replaced with, "My 100th rewatch, and it still hasn't gotten old!"


Don't know how much of the USA version you could stand; maybe you know that they obediently reproduced this episode. The simple and obvious fact that they failed to produce any similar impression might require a complex and not-quite-so-obvious analysis in the future.

Mostly just saw clips. Mainly of Kietel being an unconvincing Gene Hunt, and of course, Sam and Annie's "sexual tension" being so bloody obvious and forced as to be, as you said Jean, nauseating. Who knows, maybe if the show I love hadn't been made and this was original, I may have been interested in watching an ep or two, before realising it's as bland as all the other American network shows out there, purely designed to hold the viewer's attention to the next week by stringing them along with padded out mystery and no substance, but as it is, I have been extremely reluctant to watch an entire episode. Your review didn't give me any good reason to change my mind on that.


I have always toyed with the idea of dissecting humor in cinema, and try if it can be submitted to any analysis. Especially humor in movies that are not meant to be purely comedies. I think I could try to undertake something like this later, with the example of some of our favorite films. I know I would fail to provide answers, but it would be just such fun to do that I think I will try some day, with your help.

I'd be delighted to help in such an interesting exercise, if I can. It'll be difficult, I think, as humour itself is hard to define I think, especially when accounting for different tastes. For me, the best kind of humour is what flows naturally, like poetry (a massive example is British satire The Thick of It, which has some of the most wonderfully creatively swearing I've ever listened to), whether it's comedy or not. That's just the tip of the iceberg though, really. But yes, if you plan to analysis and dissect humour in more detail, let me know.


I need a rewatch.

NOW.

Me too. Well, not atm: my other favourite show's back on tomorrow. And didn't you say to Mattrick that when you were done with Mars, you'd try out Six Feet Under? That's a show I've really been wanting to watch, myself!



Perfectly summed up. Yes, Annie lived in a world full of sexism, but at least she lived in a world where she was allowed to deal with it in her own way, and not be told how she should not only deal with it but also how to fucking feel about it, too. Sexism isn't something to condone, but neither should be trying to control how people should think, should behave, should act. Special thanks for this, DD. I've been trying to say exactly the same a lot of times, and never could put my finger on actually how to say it. No problem. I'm as against being PC as you are, mainly because what it stands for. A person can be respectful, polite and considerate without saying what the government are telling them to say, which in my book is exactly what "political correctness" stands for. I think you made a good point with Annie and how she held her dignity no matter what was thrown at her and raised good points that I hadn't thought about before. Which is why I always love watching this show and so glad you've now watched it, as I have been dying for this kind of in-depth discussion on it for ages!


Looks like they were not afraid of anything at all. It's like the film was made by perfectly free people who did exactly what they were going to, without any consideration for what people would say and how different target groups might react.


Whereas the network version is clearly made purely for longevity reasons and made to appeal to the masses, so far as I could work out. The funny thing is, the British version did appeal to the masses, or rather, it was loved by millions. Why? For the very reason you said: a show that was written and directed by people who had their own vision, who didn't care about whether it was PC or not, because the times weren't PC, and were going to make it they way they wanted to make it. Considering how refreshing it was, no wonder it became such a success! Whereas the abc version got cancelled. I wonder if these bastardising bastards will get the point, yet?


(more later)

Looking forward to it!

DoctorDodge
10-27-2011, 02:38 PM
While I'm waiting for our next rewatch (with hopefully a lot more people new to the show involved), I'll just watch something I made earlier.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZfJqrsrZWQ

DoctorDodge
12-15-2011, 03:28 AM
Quickly making my way through Ashes to Ashes before we kickstart the Life on Mars rewatch next month. Now onto the 2nd ep of series 2. It's interesting to see that even here, they are clearly sowing the seeds for the ending of the show.
Alex beginning to forget in the 2nd episode about the 'real world' is a massive clue - after all, if it could happen to the main character, how do we know it hasn't happened before? So I do like that. The introduction of Martin Summers (one of my favourite antagonists in tv) is another bonus - it should've been expected that, after Tyler and Drake, they'd introduce another cop from the present day, but make him an enemy. I think the best thing about it though was how his character was handled. But I think the best hint was Alex waking up after being tortured and asking Gene if she was dead. "Not unless I'm St Peter. And I find that highly unlikely, don't you?" Now there's a fantasticly ironic bit of forshadowing.

It's also great that this series Drake isn't nearly as annoying as she was in the first series and has considerably mellowed down. Still not as likeable as Tyler, but at least likeable now. It's also interesting how this series has a much larger arc with its plot, particularly in its cases, which in both Life on Mars and the first series of Ashes, rarely carried over events to the next episode. It's not necessarily an approach I prefer, since the arc stuff was usually left to the characters ongoing development, but still an interesting approach, anyway.

Darkthoughts
03-30-2012, 01:06 AM
Ashes To Ashes, Season 2, Ep 7...whoa. That was so unbelievably sad, I honestly never suspected Chris for a second, what an amazingly horrible twist. On to the finale!

Btw, is it safe for me to read the other posts in here? I'm avoiding Ashes To Ashes spoilers (got season 2 finale and all of season 3 to watch).

DoctorDodge
03-30-2012, 01:25 AM
Maybe not the first couple of pages. All spoilers are tagged, but the first two pages, there is comparison between Ashes and another show, and it may give you a few ideas about where it's heading if you knew. All discussion since then has, however, been mostly me and Jean discussing how amazing Life on Mars is! :lol:

And I think ep 7 of series 2 is one of my favourite episodes of Ashes, partly for the reason you mentioned, but also for
Martin Summers's greatest moment: after Alex says you can't change history, what does he do?

Shoots himself in his own head! (Sorry, couldn't resist paraphrasing Brass Eye there! :lol: ) The "WTF?!" level of my reaction was almost as bad as Alex's, as it sends into question everything we know so far. Wonderful moment, I thought.

Darkthoughts
03-30-2012, 02:05 AM
Definitely! Just finished the finale...wow. Like, wow. I wish I had the day off work, I'm going to have to wait to start season 3 :panic:

Darkthoughts
03-30-2012, 02:20 AM
Jean, your review was perfect, absolutely so. It also made me think - and something DD said about Wizard of Oz - with both LoM and Ashes: cinematography wise our world is very muted, it's sterile and almost black and white in hue, there are no really colourful shots. In contrast the 70's and 80's realities are very vibrant, which reminds me of Dorothy and the Wizard Of Oz, how the film starts in black and white and becomes colourful and richer, in nature as well as optically.

DoctorDodge
03-30-2012, 02:22 AM
Definitely! Just finished the finale...wow. Like, wow. I wish I had the day off work, I'm going to have to wait to start season 3 :panic:

Lucky you: I had to wait nearly a year to find out what happened next! :lol: Perfect way to end the second series, I thought.

What was also very clever was, at the time, how tight-lipped everyone was about whether there would be a 3rd series before the finale was broadcast. So when she woke up in hospital, it looked like that was it...and then Gene came on the tv in one of the biggest "What the FUNT?!?" cliffhangers I've watched.

I won't say anything about the final series of Gene Hunt, except this: the answers are coming...


Jean, your review was perfect, absolutely so. It also made me think - and something DD said about Wizard of Oz - with both LoM and Ashes: cinematography wise our world is very muted, it's sterile and almost black and white in hue, there are no really colourful shots. In contrast the 70's and 80's realities are very vibrant, which reminds me of Dorothy and the Wizard Of Oz, how the film starts in black and white and becomes colourful and richer, in nature as well as optically.

Agreed, and it's something I've loved about both shows: how it uses colour without going overboard on it. Although that visual comparison to the Wizard of Oz, of black and white and then living colour, that's another thing I hadn't thought about before.

This is why I always love discussing the series: how there's always something new to discover when you gain someone else's perspective. :)

Darkthoughts
03-30-2012, 08:34 AM
Totally! Likewise that's why I've enjoyed reading the thoughts of Jean and yourself, as there have been quite a few things you've both picked up that I've been like..."Oooooh yeah!!" :D

The writers and directors really use every medium available in the two series, it's visual, it's gripping, it's intelligent, it's funny...there's just so much attention to detail it's...well, you can't help caring about the show as much as they clearly do.

Another thing I noticed in Ashes is how Molly/Mols is mirrored by Gene's nickname for Alex - Bolly/Bols.

DoctorDodge
03-30-2012, 08:35 AM
...seriously, how the fuck did I not notice that? :lol:

Jean
03-30-2012, 08:46 AM
I am revelling in Lisa's comments.

Interesting that her name doesn't start with a J... aren't you Lisa Jane/Joan, by any chance? we've been The Three Js here so far

All that makes me think I got to watch Ashes at last... but I've just found out that there's no way I can get it where I always get em without Russian translation, which will fucking ruin everything. Any ideas?

Darkthoughts
03-30-2012, 09:21 AM
Thanks Jean, I rarely write reviews as I seem to lose the essence of what I want to say as soon as I begin to type, you know?

I'm afraid I watch Ashes online via Lovefilm, a UK rental company - which is no use to you. You could try Ch131.com they have a lot of shows...mostly US ones I think though.

Jean
03-30-2012, 09:38 AM
Thanks Jean, I rarely write reviews as I seem to lose the essence of what I want to say as soon as I begin to type, you know?
No, I don't. First, I don't know it from inside myself - as soon as bears begin to type, they feel they are on top of the world, kings of the universe, and probably its sole creators; Next, I don't see it in your posts that you ever lose the essence of anything. Bears always enjoy them, and only regret they (your posts, not bears) are so few and far between.


I'm afraid I watch Ashes online via Lovefilm, a UK rental company - which is no use to you. You could try Ch131.com they have a lot of shows...mostly US ones I think though.thank you, I'll try!

Darkthoughts
03-30-2012, 11:41 AM
No, I don't. First, I don't know it from inside myself - as soon as bears begin to type, they feel they are on top of the world, kings of the universe, and probably its sole creators;
:D That's why I love your writing.


Next, I don't see it in your posts that you ever lose the essence of anything. Bears always enjoy them, and only regret they (your posts, not bears) are so few and far between.
Thank you, but they are few and far between because sometimes it seems like it would be a huge mountain to climb to say everything I truly wanted to say.

Darkthoughts
04-02-2012, 05:46 AM
Finished!!

Even though there were individual moments I loved, I didn't enjoy season 3 as much. It was too fractured, the dynamic changed and it was too protracted, to the point where I felt like I wanted to skip a few episodes and just get to the finale. The finale was clever, I wouldn't have guessed it but it wasn't everything I wanted it to be...hated Keats, he was almost a bit pointless. And didn't think it was the best ending for Gene...I don't know, I almost would have preferred to have only watched LoM and not have Ashes at all, because it was a better concept - for me personally - to have it as the characters were simply back in time. That's not to say I didn't enjoy it, just not as much as LoM.

Had another Wizard Of Oz spot though - in the finale Alex was wearing ruby slippers.

DoctorDodge
04-02-2012, 05:56 AM
While I didn't enjoy the Ashes ending as much as the Life on Mars one, I really loved how the final series explored the characters a little more, particularly with Ray, which made the tape of his death rather haunting, especially his last words of "I'm sorry, dad." In fact, I loved all of their reactions, especially Gene when he finds out.

I did get really emotional as the credits rolled too, with the last song, of course, being another great song by David Bowie. A couple of things I especially loved about the ending:

How well sign-posted it was, ever since series 2: in the first ep of series 2, after being attacked by Summers and then rescued by Gene, she asks, "Am I dead?" "Not unless I'm St Peter. And I find that highly unlikely, don't you?" In the 2nd ep of the same series, it established that you could forget your modern life if you stayed too long, establishing that maybe Alex and Sam weren't the first to arrive in Gene's world.
Dixon of Dock Green after the credits. I looked him up, and it turns out that before getting his own series, he first appeared in a film...where he ended up being killed. A nice little link, there.
NELSON!


It also made me laugh when, just a couple of nights after the Ashes finale was broadcast, so was the finale of Lost. And you know how that ends! :lol:

Darkthoughts
04-02-2012, 06:02 AM
I didn't see Dixon after the credits, what happens? I also never saw that Uptown Girl clip either, when does that happen?

DoctorDodge
04-02-2012, 06:12 AM
It's just a clip of him saying "Goodnight!" with the words "The End" appearing. A nice way to do it, and a nice touch of reflecting the characters's fates.

The Uptown Girl clip btw was in episode 2 of the final series.

Darkthoughts
04-02-2012, 06:19 AM
Wow, I never saw that at all - and I've seen that ep. Weird!

DoctorDodge
04-02-2012, 06:33 AM
With regards to the ending: I'm hoping it'll grow on you, in time. Then again, I'm kinda glad it wasn't a time travel ending: while the biblical battle didn't entirely gell with the genre of show that we were watching, I do think the time travel stuff would've been just a little bit too difficult to explain around the coma idea without going too "scifi" about it, which was never really what neither Mars or Ashes were about.

I also think that with the ending we got, it was very fitting to the characters we had been watching for the past five years. It may not have been perfect (that would be the Life on Mars ending, of course,) but it served the series well, I think.

Btw, Lisa, I posted earlier in this thread a comparison between the endings of Ashes and Lost. Any thoughts on that?

Darkthoughts
04-02-2012, 08:24 AM
With regards to the ending: I'm hoping it'll grow on you, in time.
It wasn't specifically the ending, more the entirety of Ashes - I liked the first season best I think, but now I've seen all of it I think they should have stopped after LoM.


Then again, I'm kinda glad it wasn't a time travel ending: while the biblical battle didn't entirely gell with the genre of show that we were watching, I do think the time travel stuff would've been just a little bit too difficult to explain around the coma idea without going too "scifi" about it, which was never really what neither Mars or Ashes were about.
Yes, I see that a simple time travel explanation would have had some very obvious flaws - but I didn't mind the ambiguity of the ending of LoM. Like you said the biblical explanation seemed a bit off kilter, but I found all of series 3 to be out of character - I don't think Alex would have trusted a character like Keats as much as she instantly did, Chris and Ray's relationship with Gene wasn't very realistic (compared to how it had been) etc.


Btw, Lisa, I posted earlier in this thread a comparison between the endings of Ashes and Lost. Any thoughts on that?
Yes, I did read through the whole thread once I'd finished the finale. I guess, yeah I could draw comparisons the way in which Jacob had drawn people to the island/the way Gene had selected his team, the purgatory spin, the themes of repetition and redemption...although they are wider themes that apply to most stories. I hate comparing Lost to anything though :lol: my Lost fandom is sacred :D

DoctorDodge
04-02-2012, 08:41 AM
Yeah, but really, I just thought it was brilliant that two series ended not only close to each other but both went for the purgatory idea at the very end.

It's also very fitting that in place of Lost's 'Church', we had the Pub! :lol: Yep, that sounded about right!

Darkthoughts
04-02-2012, 09:01 AM
:lol: Yes, that was much more British :D

DoctorDodge
04-02-2012, 09:07 AM
Overall, I will agree that the story of Ashes to Ashes never quite reached the highs of Life on Mars, and that I'm more likely to watch Life on Mars over and over again as opposed to both Mars and Ashes together. The final series I enjoyed less for the cases - by this point, they had gotten far too predictable, especially the one with the undercover officer - and more for the exploration of the characters. For Chris, Ray and Shaz in particular, I didn't mind that they had been acting differently - they had, after all, been doing their jobs without Hunt for some time, so that might've lead to them questioning his authority for a bit. Or maybe I'm just excusing Ashes because it was more Gene Hunt for another 3 years. :lol: At the end of the day, both series were to me as Lost was to you, I think.

So, are you going to catch up on Who next, or what? :lol:

Darkthoughts
04-03-2012, 02:05 AM
I did appreciate more Gene, and I think it was necessary to the direction of the story to have the team fall apart - I just didn't enjoy it as much.

The Doctor is on my list, starting with Christopher Eccleston, but first I'm going to watch State Of Play...I need more Simm and Glennister!!

DoctorDodge
04-03-2012, 02:08 AM
I noticed that! :thumbsup: A really great series. (And again, a reminder for me to check out Mad Dogs, I think.)

Darkthoughts
04-03-2012, 06:54 AM
Mad Dogs? What's this? More to add to the list?

DoctorDodge
04-03-2012, 06:55 AM
It's a Sky programme. I know there's 2 series already, haven't gotten around to watching either yet, but it sounds very dark, very strange, and very British. Oh, and it also stars John Simm and Philip Glenister. So yeah, definitely more to add to the list, I think.

Spencer
04-12-2012, 07:56 PM
Watch the Ashes to Ashes finale and the LOST finale back to back, you'll be blown away.

Jean
04-13-2012, 12:42 AM
wow, Spencer here!

DoctorDodge
04-13-2012, 12:51 AM
I know, right Jean? Always nice to know there's other fans of the Gene Genie on this board! (And back to back Ashes/Lost finales. Hmm. I'm gonna have to try that, I think!)

DoctorDodge
06-18-2012, 05:23 AM
Wow.

http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/Titles/77965/life-on-mars-blood-bullets-and-blue-stratos-epub-edition-tom-graham-9780007472574

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, the ending of Life on Mars was perfect, and perhaps going beyond that ending might taint it a bit.

On the other, it's Sam, Gene, Annie, Chris and Ray back, so I'm feeling pretty "fuck yeah!" about that. And the ending is so perfect that if it does suck, I can hopefully ignore it and pretend that the e-books never happened. I'll be interested to see what the writing team have in store for us next, anyway.

DoctorDodge
08-22-2012, 03:03 AM
Hmmm...to read or not to read?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Mars-Bullets-Stratos-ebook/dp/B00760GCX6

Jean
08-22-2012, 04:39 AM
hmmm

alkanto
08-22-2012, 05:41 AM
I feel like I would read that...doubtful I'll be able to buy it in the States, but still. Doesn't look awful, has all of my favorite characters, and - quite frankly - it's a book. I like those....:D

And while I'm in this thread..I did start Ashes to Ashes recently. Right at the beginning of the month. Right James...? Pretty good so far...just wish it was easier to get ahold of in the states in region 1. normally I wouldn't care, but I cannot find the remote to my region free dvd player, making it a bit harder to use

Melike
11-24-2012, 12:02 PM
I was so excited for this thread but I saw spoilers coming to me. :scared:

Jean
11-24-2012, 01:04 PM
finish it first!!! :rose: :rose: :rose:

alkanto
11-24-2012, 03:05 PM
It is so worth the wait, to watch it all and experience it fresh, and wait in discussion, just as bears have said.

Melike
11-29-2012, 01:18 PM
Juts finished it. Perfect.
I am going to take a break for tonight. I have been watching it whole day, I have my eyes aching.
Also I am feeling too affective right now, I wouldn't be saying one word rational about it.
I'll be back to talk.

Jean
11-29-2012, 10:42 PM
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_sara01.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_sara01.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_sara01.gif

DoctorDodge
11-30-2012, 01:01 AM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhmhfdn2ey1qdgl7m.gif

Still so very, very glad you loved it from start to finish, Melike! Hope you recover soon to be willing to discuss more!

Melike
11-30-2012, 07:06 AM
I have read Jean's review (amazing it is), and James' comments and all, so I will try not to be wheeling out the things. I will write to you with quotes later.
I loved the atmosphere, 'kicking doors down' scenes, the cars and all. Accents also.

I have watched it once, and without subtitles, so I may have missed some crucial points. I would be grateful to be enlightened and corrected.

I really do not know where to start. Ok.
I have this scene that Sam steps out from the room where he was lying while he had been in a coma, in my head over and over from the moment I finished the series/"the movie" for Jean. On the door of his room it is written "Hyde Ward 2612". There are lots of clues given of Sam is in a coma and created an unreal world of 1973 in his mind. The voices he hears and things he sees. On the other hand, when Sam goes under a deeper coma, he doesn't go to another 30 years back in time. He just becomes an observer of the events in 1973. When he touches Annie's face on tv screen Annie feels him. On the other imaginary third hand, Sam does feel the pain on the Gene Genie's world, he can not when he is back on 2006. Also Frank Morgan tells him about his life on Hyde and whole "Sam Tyler" was an undercover story. (I just hated that moment.)
Meanwhile we keep watching everything from Sam's point of view. Just only at the end the Test Card Girl takes control and turns off the tv and also our vision. Which forces us to create the fourth hand to hold another option.
But there is a fifth. Sam jumps from the roof, and returns to 1973 as he aimed. But, just exactly to the moment he left, the moment that is extremely necessary. So he helped Hunt and the team, let 1973 persist.

From the beginning to end I wanted answers so badly, and I wanted to skip to the end, learn what really was going on then take my time to enjoy the artistic intelligence of the show. Glad I didn't though. :D
As I've mentioned it to James before, I wanted it to be something about time travel. Because I wanted both of the worlds Sam showed us to be real, or not to be unreal. That is why I hated the moment Sam looking at Sam Tyler's tombstone, while Morgan talking to him. If there will be a simple and concrete answer, I thought it shouldn't ruin one of the worlds. Because that would mean a one dimensional story.

The ending (and/or the clues mentioned above) leading us to different possibilities, was the best thing they could do.

All the words Hunt said, all the faces he's done are epic. It is so weird that how can Sam's and Gene's characters be so similar and opposite at the same time.They both never accept they were wrong. Both stubborn, they do the similar things when they are set to similar conditions, but they always argue about almost everything.
Chris Skelton, my third favorite character here. A waste of space. :D

alkanto
11-30-2012, 07:20 AM
Oh, I love Chris :D And agreed on all points. Especially like how you pointed out the clues, and how they all might've pointed to different scenarios. I know, for my own, experience, I can usually figure out what's going on in a tv show well before it is revealed (ie, American Horror Story, to an extent) but with this one I was on the edge of my seat for all of the twists. It was so worth it, in the end.

I really, really, wish I had time to watch it all again. Maybe this winter break, when I am home for a month? It's just such a hassle, dealing with my region 2 DVDs I got and having to haul my region-free player everywhere.

Melike
11-30-2012, 08:27 AM
Oh, I love Chris :D And agreed on all points. Especially like how you pointed out the clues, and how they all might've pointed to different scenarios. I know, for my own, experience, I can usually figure out what's going on in a tv show well before it is revealed (ie, American Horror Story, to an extent) but with this one I was on the edge of my seat for all of the twists. It was so worth it, in the end.

I really, really, wish I had time to watch it all again. Maybe this winter break, when I am home for a month? It's just such a hassle, dealing with my region 2 DVDs I got and having to haul my region-free player everywhere.

Yes, it was worth it. :couple: That is why I don't think it had similarities to Lost's ending as it mentioned above. I liked how Lost ended, but there were too much things missing, and it was obvious some things got out of control and they couldn't wrap it up properly. But it was so worth it here. Life on Mars ended in the best way it could. I don't think it is not answered like Lost left almost everything unanswered which made some things pointless. As Jean talked about Rosemary's Baby, and how it ended; this case is like it to me.

Re-watching is something I crave for, too. But I will not. I try to put long time between my re-watches.

DoctorDodge
11-30-2012, 08:34 AM
Regarding the whole mystery part...I think it was clear that the writers had something planned for a sequel when they wrote the finale - Sam recording his story to send it to someone in psychology was the biggest clue - so I think that was part of the reason why they left so many options open. As for how Ashes to Ashes ended (just a couple of days before Lost did, oddly enough)... I will say that it did answer everything, but did it in a surprisingly satisfying way for me. The finale of that wasn't quite as emotional as LoM, but it was still very good. Still, up to you Melike of whether you'd really want to continue the story of Gene Hunt or not. I will say I never thought A2A was quite as great as LoM was, but I still really, really enjoyed it.

Melike
11-30-2012, 11:27 AM
Regarding the whole mystery part...I think it was clear that the writers had something planned for a sequel when they wrote the finale - Sam recording his story to send it to someone in psychology was the biggest clue - so I think that was part of the reason why they left so many options open. As for how Ashes to Ashes ended (just a couple of days before Lost did, oddly enough)... I will say that it did answer everything, but did it in a surprisingly satisfying way for me. The finale of that wasn't quite as emotional as LoM, but it was still very good. Still, up to you Melike of whether you'd really want to continue the story of Gene Hunt or not. I will say I never thought A2A was quite as great as LoM was, but I still really, really enjoyed it.
Of course I will continue. Even if it wasn't for Hunt I would. Not soon though. I have things to do nowadays. I just wish Sam would be there, too. To me, he is like Shadow of American Gods.

DoctorDodge
11-30-2012, 11:47 AM
Oh, of course. It suits the story for some time to pass before watching Ashes, anyway.

Jean
12-01-2012, 03:42 AM
maybe we'll watch it together, then!

Melike
12-01-2012, 04:11 AM
maybe we'll watch it together, then!

That would be so amazing!

alkanto
12-01-2012, 10:24 AM
I've watched the first ep of Ashes to Ashes. It was pretty good...nothing to blow me away, though. I really did miss Sam...Then again, I may have to rewatch it when I'm not in such a compromised emotional state...:lol: (long story...)

DoctorDodge
12-01-2012, 10:34 AM
Like I said, Pond, series 1 is definitely the weakest series, out of all of both LoM and A2A, but like you said, still enjoyable. Will admit, you definitely miss Sam though, although Alex gets better with time, at least.

Melike
12-01-2012, 11:54 AM
I've watched the first ep of Ashes to Ashes. It was pretty good...nothing to blow me away, though. I really did miss Sam...Then again, I may have to rewatch it when I'm not in such a compromised emotional state...:lol: (long story...)

Sam's absence will be the problem for me, too. Gene and others are so awesome. But it is Sam who really take you into the story. You can imagine yourself in his shoes easily.

Melike
12-24-2012, 05:41 AM
Ashes to Ashes, Season 1, Episode 1.

-Gene Hunt? *faints*
-My reputation precedes me.

DoctorDodge
12-24-2012, 06:24 AM
Love that moment.

"Blimey...if that skirt were inched any higher, I could see what I had for breakfast!" :rofl:

Melike
12-24-2012, 09:01 AM
:D

It is great to be back at Gene's world... And, I am glad that at least they've begun with Sam's words.
But...
Ashes to Ashes doesn't have the amazing atmosphere Life on Mars had. At least for the first impression I got from the first episode.

DoctorDodge
12-24-2012, 09:28 AM
Agreed, if I'm honest. It also doesn't help that Alex isn't as interesting a character as Sam Tyler, in fact, I found her considerably annoying in the first series.

Second series though, I really enjoyed. That's when the writers found their feet again, imo. Not that the first series is completely unwatchable, but out of all 5 seasons of LoM and A2A combined, 1 of A2A is definitely the weakest, probably because the writers wanted to take the show in a different direction to LoM but being completely unsure of how to go about it.

alkanto
12-24-2012, 04:33 PM
I have still only seen ep 1. I dunno...I'll probably get to the rest of the series eventually, but it's not an urge to continue, like I had with LoM. For that, the 2 day wait between getting DVDs was hell.

Melike
12-25-2012, 11:39 AM
I have still only seen ep 1. I dunno...I'll probably get to the rest of the series eventually, but it's not an urge to continue, like I had with LoM. For that, the 2 day wait between getting DVDs was hell.

I am glad that we are watching it almost simultaneously. :)

Melike
01-11-2013, 07:51 AM
I have still only seen ep 1. I dunno...I'll probably get to the rest of the series eventually, but it's not an urge to continue, like I had with LoM. For that, the 2 day wait between getting DVDs was hell.

Hey there. Have you got a chance to see the second episode?

alkanto
01-12-2013, 06:40 AM
No, not yet. I don't even own the dvds, and it's hard to find online atm. The only time I ever watched it was this summer, when I was in London.

Melike
01-12-2013, 07:09 AM
Ah. Ok. I couldn't watch it also. It is not the magnet LoM has been. I was going to ask you if it was about being the first episode, or it gets better.
I can not trust James and Jean on this. I suspect they are glamoured.

DoctorDodge
01-12-2013, 07:16 AM
Nah, Jean hasn't watched any of A2A yet. And I know you didn't want it, but here's my answer anyway: as I've said before, the first series of A2A is definitely the weakest in the whole Hunt canon, but series 2 definitely gets a lot better. The whole show never gets as brilliant as Life on Mars really, but with series 2 and 3, it does come close.

alkanto
01-12-2013, 07:24 AM
I might agree with you on that, Melike. Granted, I wasn't in the best mindstate when I saw the first ep, but I wasn't blown away. I suspect I'll get to it...eventually.

Melike
01-12-2013, 07:40 AM
Nah, Jean hasn't watched any of A2A yet. And I know you didn't want it, but here's my answer anyway: as I've said before, the first series of A2A is definitely the weakest in the whole Hunt canon, but series 2 definitely gets a lot better. The whole show never gets as brilliant as Life on Mars really, but with series 2 and 3, it does come close.
No, not that I didn't want it, but I knew it word by word. :)

I might agree with you on that, Melike. Granted, I wasn't in the best mindstate when I saw the first ep, but I wasn't blown away. I suspect I'll get to it...eventually.
Not that I will not watch it, but I think I may lay off. I am too curious to quit the show, but lately I have got more busy with work, and there are other things I want to focus on. Dark Tower re-reading and etc. So, thank you.

DoctorDodge
04-26-2013, 01:15 AM
Ok, after putting it off for months, I've finally bought the first part of the Life on Mars e-book series. Kept debating with myself thinking, "Is it really worth it, considering the story of Sam Tyler was so beautifully finished in the LoM finale?" But seriously, who are we kidding? Any excuse for more Gene Hunt, Sam Tyler, Chris, Ray, Annie etc is a perfect one for me. If it's written well, I'll get the rest. If not, I'll simply ignore it and stick with the series. (Which I do need to re-watch, I think. Very, very soon.)

DoctorDodge
05-03-2013, 01:01 AM
Btw, heard about this a few months back, but this is the first trailer I've seen for the Russian take on Life on Mars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIHIAK4vDms

Wow. That just looks so radically different. I mean, I knew it had to be, considering how completely different life in 70s Russia was compared to 70s Britain, but even more interestingly: waking up as his father and living his life? That's a whole new level of awkwardness right there! I think, seeing how completely different it is to the original has made me far more curious about it than the American version starting out with shallow copies of the original episodes as I first saw. I'm also aware of a Spanish version. I'm kinda curious about that one, but the radically different approach given to the Russian version has got me really keen to watch it.

Melike
05-03-2013, 02:20 AM
Btw, heard about this a few months back, but this is the first trailer I've seen for the Russian take on Life on Mars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIHIAK4vDms

Wow. That just looks so radically different. I mean, I knew it had to be, considering how completely different life in 70s Russia was compared to 70s Britain, but even more interestingly: waking up as his father and living his life? That's a whole new level of awkwardness right there! I think, seeing how completely different it is to the original has made me far more curious about it than the American version starting out with shallow copies of the original episodes as I first saw. I'm also aware of a Spanish version. I'm kinda curious about that one, but the radically different approach given to the Russian version has got me really keen to watch it.

Wow, wow, wowww! This looks amazing. I want to watch it too. More interesting indeed.