Do you know anyone who is a gunslinger in your eyes?

[Letti]

I think the two most important men in my life are both gunslingers: my love and my dad.
I wish I could be a little bit similar to them... *sigh*

:)

[Darkthoughts]

Two friends of mine - one male, one female - they both stand and be true and I would trust either of them with my life.

[Jean]

so, you ladies seem to agree that standing and being true is all there's to a gunslinger? How about their elitarianism and perceiving anyone who is not a gunslinger as intrinsically inferior? How about the ease with which they kill everything that moves? how about their usurping the right to be superior, ultimate human beings only because they were trained to be stronger and quicker?

[Letti]

so, you ladies seem to agree that standing and being true is all there's to a gunslinger?

Where did you get this idea from, Jean?

[Jean]

ok, could you give more details on how your love and your dad are gunslingers?

[Letti]

ok, could you give more details on how your love and your dad are gunslingers?

I could write about it for hours... shall I?
Anyway it's a very complex question, Jean. A lot of things depend on what you mean by the word "gunslinger".

[Darkthoughts]

How about their elitarianism and perceiving anyone who is not a gunslinger as intrinsically inferior?

On the contrary, I've taken it all into account ;)

They have their dark sides as we all do. My male friend is a very dedicated Christian, and whilst he would never outwardly judge I feel that he does anyway to some degree...but its my opinion that all devout Christians as he have a slight God complex :P

As for my female friend, she has 5 children that she raised as a single mother - shes just of the opinion that anyone male is inferior :lol:

[Matt]

Through my definition of Gunslinger, I would classify Dora that way.

To me it is about the White, and weather or not a person fights for "it". That has a lot to do with "stand and be true" but also things like toughness, honesty and sheer determination.

And yes, there is always a dark side to those types of personalities. No one is perfect but I believe people who's goal is to bring light to the world are basically doing the right thing.

(with exceptions, but not in her case)

[Wuducynn]

Through my definition of Gunslinger, I would classify Dora that way.

To me it is about the White, and weather or not a person fights for "it". That has a lot to do with "stand and be true" but also things like toughness, honesty and sheer determination.

And yes, there is always a dark side to those types of personalities. No one is perfect but I believe people who's goal is to bring light to the world are basically doing the right thing.

(with exceptions, but not in her case)

Going by that definition I am one definitely.

[MonteGss]

:rofl:

[Letti]

Through my definition of Gunslinger, I would classify Dora that way.

To me it is about the White, and weather or not a person fights for "it". That has a lot to do with "stand and be true" but also things like toughness, honesty and sheer determination.

And yes, there is always a dark side to those types of personalities. No one is perfect but I believe people who's goal is to bring light to the world are basically doing the right thing.

(with exceptions, but not in her case)

Going by that definition I am one definitely.

Hands down.

[Wuducynn]

See Monte someone believes in the goodness of the my heart and soul :(

[MonteGss]

:rofl:

[Letti]

See Monte someone believes in the goodness of the my heart and soul :(

I am sure so does Monte. Believe me.

[Wuducynn]

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/Los_The_Red/crying.gif

[MonteGss]

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/15.gif

[Darkthoughts]

:lol: I was going to say "So do I!" but it sounded so insincere :P

[Wuducynn]

The obvious lack of faith in my inherent goodness of soul hurts me...it hurts a lot... http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/Los_The_Red/crying.gif
makes me feel I need to sing a song about it...

I'm So Ronery
So ronery
So ronery and sadry arone

There's no one
Just me onry
Sitting on my rittle throne
I work rearry hard and make up great prans
But nobody ristens, no one understands
Seems like no one takes me serirousry

And so I'm ronery
A rittle ronery
Poor rittle me

There's nobody
I can rerate to
Feel rike a bird in a cage
It's kinda sihry
But not rearry
Because it's fihring my body with rage

I'm the smartest most crever most physicarry fit
But nobody else seems to rearize it
When I change the world maybe they'll notice me
But until then I'rr just be ronery
Rittle ronery, poor rittle me

I'm so ronery

[Darkthoughts]

*bitch slaps CK* :lol:

[Daghain]

Thanks, Darkthoughts. You beat me to it (pun intended). :lol:

[Letti]

I adore you guys but for my part I would be interesed in if you have anyone in your life who is a gunslinger for you.
I mean I am interested in your answers about the topic. ;)

[Matt]

That's Letti's nice way of saying...

Back on topic people!! :lol:

Love the new av there Letti :wub: <--I know that was off but I already answered the thread topic after all.

[MonteGss]

I sadly don't know anyone who I would call a gunslinger. :(
I wish I was one but I guess I have to face the facts, I'm not. :(

[Letti]

I think it's very hard to see ourselves correctly.. Monte. Maybe that's the hardest thing in the world.
I guess there are people out there in the big world who think you are a gunslinger (maybe they don't have this very word in their mind) because you are a great man. :rose:

[Jean]

I sadly don't know anyone who I would call a gunslinger. :((
I, luckily, don't know anyone who I would call one...

[Letti]

I sadly don't know anyone who I would call a gunslinger. :(
I, luckily, don't know anyone who I would call one...

Because you don't mean the same by this word as us. But it's not a problem it's natural.

[MonteGss]

I think it's very hard to see ourselves correctly.. Monte. Maybe that's the hardest thing in the world.
I guess there are people out there in the big world who think you are a gunslinger (maybe they don't have this very word in their mind) because you are a great man. :rose:

Sadly, my dear, I think the word that might come to mind before gunslinger would be shithead. :) I love you for your kind words though, princess. :wub:



I sadly don't know anyone who I would call a gunslinger. :(
I, luckily, don't know anyone who I would call one...

You think poorly of them (gunslingers) Jean? Please explain if you would. :)

[Letti]

I think it's very hard to see ourselves correctly.. Monte. Maybe that's the hardest thing in the world.
I guess there are people out there in the big world who think you are a gunslinger (maybe they don't have this very word in their mind) because you are a great man. :rose:

Sadly, my dear, I think the word that might come to mind before gunslinger would be shithead. :) I love you for your kind words though, princess. :wub:

I don't argue (it's not easy to stop myself) but I know what I know and I feel what I feel. :rose:

[Jean]

I sadly don't know anyone who I would call a gunslinger. :(
I, luckily, don't know anyone who I would call one...
You think poorly of them (gunslingers) Jean? Please explain if you would. :)

here (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showpost.php?p=27879&postcount=3). I could expand, but I believe it would require another thread. As Nikolett said,

Because you don't mean the same by this word as us. But it's not a problem it's natural.
so we probably have to define our notions first.

[Letti]

Would you mind a new thread, Jean? Or shall we stay here?

[Jean]

I would love a new thread, dedicated to the definition of gunslinging and gunslinger.

[MonteGss]

I believe there may already be one like that Jean. Although not many people have posted in it. It is something about "the duties of a gunslinger" and Matt started it when the site opened.
Well, it's a similar thread anyway.

[Daghain]

I, luckily, don't know anyone who I would call one...

You might. :)

Actually, I think that's why I identify with Roland a lot. I have that same stubborn singlemindedness he has, and if I were to be completely and totally honest with myself I would have to say that if I were on a quest similar to his I would be just as ruthless in my pursuit of it. (I blame my German ancestors for this :))

I would honestly have no problem killing someone who threatened my safety or the safety of those I loved, but I would have a hard time killing an innocent. I could not have let Jake fall as Roland did - that is probably the one major reason I would not call myself a gunslinger. Yes, letting the boy drop is essential to gaining the Tower, but I think I would have let it go right there. However, I DO know I would have thought about it for a second. Seriously. Other than that particular moment, I pretty much agreed with everything Roland did.

I do have a heartless streak. I can't help it. :) And no, I'm not kidding.

[Letti]

If you don't let Jake fall doesn't mean that you are not a Gunslinger. Eddie would have never been able to betray Susannah but I still call him a gunslinger.. moreover.

The fact that Roland could easily betray people who were important to him doesn't mean that's is a part of being a good gunslinger.

[Daghain]

I can agree with that to some extent, I think. But I believe thatan essential part of the quest was that Roland must choose - sacrifice the boy, or sacrifice the Tower. If you believe Roland is the "last TRUE gunslinger, born and bred to be what he is" then you must believe that he could do this regardless of how he might feel about it later.

I know I could not live with myself. But yeah, I would have considered it for a minute.

[Letti]

Roland was the last... but after he met Eddie Susannah and Jake. In my eyes they are real gunslinger too and if you ask me I think they could teach Roland that there are things that are more important than others.

[Jean]

I believe there may already be one like that Jean. Although not many people have posted in it. It is something about "the duties of a gunslinger" and Matt started it when the site opened.
Well, it's a similar thread anyway.
Yes, but I think that one emphasizes the social aspect, and I would be more interested in what it does to man. I would argue that gunslinging - especially the part of it that insists that you're always right - cripples one's personality.

[Daghain]

Roland was the last... but after he met Eddie Susannah and Jake. In my eyes they are real gunslinger too and if you ask me I think they could teach Roland that there are things that are more important than others.

Agree again. :)

But, I think Roland's "trainees" are of the 'kinder, gentler' breed of gunslinger. After all, they didn't get the crap beat out of them by Cort on a daily basis. I don't necessarily believe they were as 'trained' as Roland was - they could shoot, surely, but they didn't get all the other training Roland had. And, his personality was different. He had been used to being alone for so long that he had a harder time feeling close to others, I think.

[Daghain]

Yes, but I think that one emphasizes the social aspect, and I would be more interested in what it does to man. I would argue that gunslinging - especially the part of it that insists that you're always right - cripples one's personality.

I would agree with that, but I'm not sure where you got that a gunslinger believes he is always right? I know Roland does, but do they all?

[MonteGss]

To Jean
I don't ever remember reading or have I ever come away thinking that gunslingers always thought they were right. Not even Roland thinks this, maybe towards the beginning but certainly not at the end. Interesting how different people can see them soooo differently. Maybe you're right Jean, maybe another thread is appropriate...assuming it is phrased effectively.

[Letti]

I see your point very well and there is a lot in what you say but I think they proved many times that they are really gunslingers. There is gunslinger-blood in their veins.
I respect and love Roland a lot but we didn't have the chance to meet other gunslingers from his time so we can't be sure he is a typical gunslinger. His skills are amazing but so are the others'.

[Darkthoughts]

Jean - I feel that you're only describing Roland here and not gunslingers in general.

Roland is well aware of his one track mind, as are the others around him. What we see when we look at Roland is a man caught in a fierce obsession.

The only time we really see Roland as a complete gunslinger is in The Waste Lands (when the ka-tet reaches River Crossing):
"Now she (Susannah) understood that Roland had once been much more than a cop riding a Daliesque range at the end of the world. He had been a diplomat; a mediator; perhaps even a teacher. Most of all, he had been a soldier of what these people called 'the white' by which she guessedthey meant the civilizing forces that kept people from killing each other enough of the time to allow some sort of progress. In his time he had been more wandering knight-errant than bounty hunter."

I'm aware of the state a gunslinger must put him/herself into to say their lesson and be a killer, but the above to me is what gunslinging was all about.

[Wuducynn]

The only time we really see Roland as a complete gunslinger is in The Waste Lands (when the ka-tet reaches River Crossing):
[B]"Now she (Susannah) understood that Roland had once been much more than a cop riding a Daliesque range at the end of the world. He had been a diplomat; a mediator; perhaps even a teacher. Most of all, he had been a soldier of what these people called 'the white' by which she guessedthey meant the civilizing forces that kept people from killing each other enough of the time to allow some sort of progress. In his time he had been more wandering knight-errant than bounty hunter."


I have to disagree that its the only time we see him being a complete gunslinger..with the visit to Calla Bryn Sturgiss he was acting clearly as one.

[Daghain]

I'll third that - I think by the time Roland is well into his quest, the need for gunslingers as anything other than a hired gun is long past. The world moved on.

[Jean]

Jean - I feel that you're only describing Roland here and not gunslingers in general.

Roland is well aware of his one track mind, as are the others around him. What we see when we look at Roland is a man caught in a fierce obsession.

The only time we really see Roland as a complete gunslinger is in The Waste Lands (when the ka-tet reaches River Crossing):
"Now she (Susannah) understood that Roland had once been much more than a cop riding a Daliesque range at the end of the world. He had been a diplomat; a mediator; perhaps even a teacher. Most of all, he had been a soldier of what these people called 'the white' by which she guessedthey meant the civilizing forces that kept people from killing each other enough of the time to allow some sort of progress. In his time he had been more wandering knight-errant than bounty hunter."

I'm aware of the state a gunslinger must put him/herself into to say their lesson and be a killer, but the above to me is what gunslinging was all about.

the problem is, that was exactly what I meant.

The gunslingers were the only organized force in a world falling apart. They, by definition (as being the soldier of the White), held the monopoly on the truth. Nothing corrupts more than that.

[Darkthoughts]

I have to disagree that its the only time we see him being a complete gunslinger..with the visit to Calla Bryn Sturgiss he was acting clearly as one.
Actually I should have worded it like this: "the only time Darkthoughts was able to find a quote of him acting like a complete gunslinger, that fit into one nice paragraph..." :lol:

Jean, I still don't entirely agree - even though I understand what you're saying. Its a generalisation, I don't think power corrupts absolutely EVERYONE. I see the gunslingers as being more diplomatic than dictorial.

[lead dealer]

AHHH.... what is a gunslinger.....

My freinds there are gunslingers in this world, do not dispair.

A GUNSLINGER: understands, mission first. Service before Self.

A GUNSLINGER: Knows that sacrifices must be made reguardless of how much they hurt.

A GUNSLINGER: Is willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good.

A GUNSLINGER: Fights for those that can not

A GUNSLINGER: Is willing to lay down his life for others.

For those of you that do not know, these are the core values of a good solder. There are a few of us idealists out there. Still serving.

"Grandpa were you a hero in the war?"
" NO, but I served in a company of them."

A true hero is someone that has never called himself a hero. His comrades did....

My 2 cents from an old solder

"I kill with my heart"

[Gasher80]

i wanted to say "no. i don't know anyone who slings a gun, kills, etc." but susannah calls JFK a gunslinger so i think we have to stretch our own definition of gunslinger beyond the literal if we respect susannah's definition of one.

does she mean only JFK was one who "stood and was true" and/or that he was a gunslinger also because he was commander in chief?

or that JFK was good with the Oriza's :shoot: :)

[turtlex]

I think in some ways, I think we all are.

I mean, different levels and to different degrees.

[ManOfWesternesse]

There are not many Gunslingers in this world.
Gunslingers do not have to be Soldiers or Cops.
And being a Soldier or Cop certainly does not make someone a Gunslinger. I'm not saying it disbars them, but they're certainly mutually exclusive things.

[Brice]

precisely

[Wuducynn]

I sling guns sometimes and I think I share with Daghain that heartless streak she described on the other hand I have a very heartful streak. I do believe strongly in doing what is right. But I wouldn't feel I hold any similarities to the knights and samurai of old, which is what the gunslingers in the Dark Tower series are related to. Nor do I know anyone who would fit that mold.

[lead dealer]

My dear constant readers....

Not everyone in the profession of arms is a gunslinger. I have seen a few abuses of power hiding behind a badge. Yet I have met some firemen and emt's that certainly live by the code. The public service sector (mostly uniform wearers) dose have more per capita. The born gunslingers gravitate to these positions...

"I kill with my heart"

[Matt]

The born gunslingers (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=1461) gravitate to these positions...

I think that is probably very true. Not exclusive to those professions but certainly gravitate towards them.

[theBeamisHome]

i think i'm more with Lisa on what a gunslinger is... i don't think gunslingers are defined by Roland although he was one.. i do consider myself a gunslinger even though i have never weld a gun... i think i'm more proficient with a slingshot like Cuthbert... but i'm an aspiring teacher, a "keeper" of peace, and many other qualities that i think qualifies me.... and i do have a tendency to be obsessive as well :lol:

[lead dealer]

Service before self. You are perhaps in a nobler profession than those that ever strapped on steel and leather.
Vannay had just as big of a part as Court did in creating gunslingers...


"I kill with my heart"

[theBeamisHome]

thankee sai :)

[Lone_Wanderer]

my cousin... a U.S. Navy SEAL..whose name i will not say

[Matt]

My Father who always knows how to Stand.

[The Lady of Shadows]

just as a quick aside, susannah didn't call jfk a gunslinger. odetta's driver, andrew, did and it fashed odetta something fierce.

now, onto the topic at hand. after reading this entire thread, i think i have to agree with the bear. when i first saw the thread's title i immediately thought: yes, i know two. but then the more i thought about roland, the more i thought, "my god, no. absolutely not. they are nothing like him at all."

it's difficult to say, because my view of roland (who is truly the only gunslinger i know - susannah, eddie and jake weren't really trained in the full gunslinger fashion (as i think someone else commented) ) is so tainted by his actions in tull, and his dropping of jake. but then they are tempered by his treatment of the child of roderick, and his actions in wolves, and many other things.

but let's face it. roland does have the "i know everything" gene. and he does have the "it's my way or the highway" gene. and he does tend to kill everything in his path. so where does that leave us? :unsure:

[KidDuke]

Hell yah my Dad he doesn't get angry often but when he needs to he does and people usually shut the hell up and listen. I swear he could kill some people with a few looks. Great guy though really.

[razz]

I can't say i know any gunslingers. It doesn't mater if you can stand and be true, if when you do that, someone blows half your face off.

[Gasher80]

just as a quick aside, susannah didn't call jfk a gunslinger. odetta's driver, andrew, did and it fashed odetta something fierce.

from the chapter "white lands of empathica"

"Most of all, there are no gunslingers. John Kennedy was the last,
her chauffeur Andrew was right about that."

Susannah definitely regards him as a gunslinger. she also speaks of him as the country's dinh as well.

[The Lady of Shadows]

just as a quick aside, susannah didn't call jfk a gunslinger. odetta's driver, andrew, did and it fashed odetta something fierce.

from the chapter "white lands of empathica"

"Most of all, there are no gunslingers. John Kennedy was the last,
her chauffeur Andrew was right about that."

Susannah definitely regards him as a gunslinger. she also speaks of him as the country's dinh as well.

dude, i totally stand corrected. thankee for this. now i have an excuse to reread. :D

[HorseDrover'sDaughter]

Hmmm...having just had a fight with my husband about something that in all honesty needed to be let go, I'm having a bit of an epiphany about the "dark side" of the gunslinger's character. There is all this noble stuff, and I don't want to downplay that - say what you like about Roland, the guy is saving the world, after all. But there's this other part that just says "screw it, I'm right and that justifies whatever I have to do or say."

Was I right this morning fighting with my husband? Yer bugger I was. But did I really need to keep at it until he admitted it and promised never to be snippy with me in the early AM again? Nope; but I did it anyway. Because I was right, and there's an unlovely part of me that can't just know I'm right and drop it even with the people I love. It's a part of what makes Roland so real to me, that I see it in him too. I guess we naturally like people (and characters) that share our flaws, right?

I've been lurking in this thread, secretly horrified that Jean doesn't think gunslingers are absolutely peachy folks. This morning, I'm prepared to concede his point.