King and the "n" word

[BillyxRansom]

How does a writer who expects to have his work published, get through the very realistic possibility of gaining some SEVERE backlash for using derogatory words like "n*gger" (I won't use it in many contexts, I just won't)?

Does he just take a chance and hope he doesn't get dropped by his publisher or something? He lives in Maine, so I kinda doubt there are really enough :orely: ...people... to take too much offense.

[jayson]

I don't have an issue with him using in certain contexts. If it's an accurate representation of the way the character speaks, I think it's fine. I don't like the word, but it's nonetheless true that it's used a lot in the real world. It's not like King uses it casually in any way so I see nothing to be offended by. I'd be more offended if the dialogue didn't ring true. I'd think the publishers see it the same way.

[William50]

Nicely said R of G! :thumbsup:

[flaggwalkstheline]

I think that the way it was used was through detta, Detta is Odettas id, since her ethnicity is a large part of her identity then her id being like that makes sense,
Fearing a word, no matter the context, only gives the word more negative power
A word is a word
and a:rose: is a :rose:
context is everything

[Sam]

The question here Billy is are you talking about King using such language in his written works or using such language himself in an interview. What I would like to know is the context of the usage.

[William50]

The question here Billy is are you talking about King using such language in his written works or using such language himself in an interview. What I would like to know is the context of the usage.

I was sort of wondering the same thing. It would be alot worse if he said it during an interview.

[The Lady of Shadows]

agreed. if it's in context, consistent with character development and plot, and makes sense within the story then it belongs there. in that instance, not using the word might not work. could you imagine detta walker not using it?

on the other hand, if we're talking about real life situations, i deplore that word simply because it's overused and used too often in negative and demeaning ways. i don't say it, i don't like it when my friend use it around me, and the one time my god daughter said it i took her phone (her most precious possesssion) away (with her mother's approval).

i would like to echo sam's point. are we strictly talking about king's use of the word in his fiction writing or is there use of the word in interviews, articles, or editorials. because that might be different, again depending on the context.

[Brice]

I'm unaware of King ever using the word at all anywhere outside of his stories. His use of that word and other similar terms has always seemed necessary and appropriate when he has used it.

[John_and_Yoko]

One thing I notice is that his villains are always racist, sexist, and every other "ist" in the book....

I wonder if the supernatural ones, at least, are really that, or if they're just trying to provoke negative reactions from humans....

[Brice]

Likely so...and ignorance is just commonplace.

[MonteGss]

I agree with R_of_G's post. King's strong suit is his character writing. His characters are realistic and if the usage of the word (or any other profanity) is an accurate representation of that character, it is cool with me.

[obscurejude]

It reminds me, in certain regards, to QT films and blaxploitation film generally. There remains a lot of cultural significance and character development associated with the "n" word.

[flaggwalkstheline]

yeah but the whole thing about detta is that shes NOT realistic shes the raging id of an educated african american who is involved in the civil rights movement, detta is everything about odetta that she fears in herself

[Whitey Appleseed]

I dunno...I wonder how they feel in the third world?

[obscurejude]

yeah but the whole thing about detta is that shes NOT realistic shes the raging id of an educated african american who is involved in the civil rights movement, detta is everything about odetta that she fears in herself

It was a general statement about the whole corpus of King and not specifically directed toward the Dark Tower series. His use of the N word isn't limited to Detta by any means.

[John Blaze]

I don't have an issue with him using in certain contexts. If it's an accurate representation of the way the character speaks, I think it's fine. I don't like the word, but it's nonetheless true that it's used a lot in the real world. It's not like King uses it casually in any way so I see nothing to be offended by. I'd be more offended if the dialogue didn't ring true. I'd think the publishers see it the same way.
+1

[IWasSentWest]

well spoken r of g

i remember being scolded for saying "nigga" one time on tdt.net (not in racist form)....i was thickheaded and younger, and thought since everybody that i'd known (black and white) never had a problem with it, than it was ok..but i've become wiser, and now i really try to keep that shit from creeping into my vocabulary

[LadyHitchhiker]

I never use the n word but I understand that some of king's characters would use it. There are lots of words I never use, but characters in my stories might use, because it is their character. Not all characters are beautiful. I have one character who is absolutely foul-mouthed and racist who ends up redeeming himself (yes, idealistic me) so I understand why bad words sometimes are necessary. They show the character who they are, what place they are at, and sometimes their evolution of character.

(Anyone ever read no traveller returns, and they'll understand)

[BillyxRansom]

For those who are unclear, I am talking strictly about King's writings.

[Jean]

For those who are unclear, I am talking strictly about King's writings.
Then I don't really see where the question comes from; any word can be used if dictated by the inner necessity of a given work of art or piece of literature. The only limitation can be inside the writer himself: his taste, the depth of his understanding his own characters, his mastery of the language he writes in, and the like. N-word, c-word, k-word should not be used without necessity in a piece of fiction; but, then again, no words, even "weather" or "telephone", should be used there without necessity.

[Brice]

:clap: I agree...all words should always be used as sparingly as that one.

[jayson]

... but, then again, no words, even "weather" or "telephone", should be used there without necessity.

Precisely. Every word should be authentic.

[Brice]

...but wouldn't that get a bit redundant, Jayson? :orely:

[jayson]

How so?

ETA: Nevermind just got it. :lol:

[Brice]

:lol:

[BillyxRansom]

For those who are unclear, I am talking strictly about King's writings.
Then I don't really see where the question comes from; any word can be used if dictated by the inner necessity of a given work of art or piece of literature. The only limitation can be inside the writer himself: his taste, the depth of his understanding his own characters, his mastery of the language he writes in, and the like. N-word, c-word, k-word should not be used without necessity in a piece of fiction; but, then again, no words, even "weather" or "telephone", should be used there without necessity.

I'm only talking about reader reactions. even people who aren't necessarily fans, or may not even have an opinion on him, but just notice the usage of the word if they come upon it. For instance, not all black people who read him will understand that he's just trying to be authentic. That's all I'm trying to understand, 1. if he ever got any backlash for it, and 2. if not, how did he avoid it? Regardless if he meant it to be authentic and genuine and true to the character, some people take things the wrong way. Like the end of IT (the novel) not the movie, some people are just going to be offended by it.

But with like a word like that, which has been known to get people into some SERIOUS DEEP trouble for using it.. I wonder how he was able to avoid that kind of feedback. Despite the fact that he chooses his words carefully, a lot of people do and still get in deep trouble for it.

[jhanic]

I guess what you're saying is that there are some people out there who would take offense of the use of certain words no matter what the context. I agree. I remember not that long ago that there were certain people who wanted to ban The Adventures of Huck Finn because of the use of the "N" word, and there were also those who objected to To Kill a Mockingbird because of its portrayal of the blacks, irregardless of the era of which both works were set. To satisfy these people would have rendered the books worthless.

John

[LadyHitchhiker]

And there are people in Russia who want to ban the new Indiana Jones movie because they think it puts the communists into a bad light. I mean there will always be people who are offended or want to protest different art forms.

[Jean]

How do you mean, "want to ban"? There's no censorship here, not only within any reasonable limits; also, the absolute majority's inclinations are strictly anti-communist. I know there are people who are unhappy about it, and I personally would be, and often am, unhappy with anything anti-Russian I can see in American movies, especially if it is done out of sheer ignorance or for political reasons (which is often the same). If we're talking about a honest work of a serious author, however, the principle remains the same: books are not written with the purpose to please everybody, they are not Hallmark postcards.

[BillyxRansom]

Well said, jhanic and Jean.

I just was interested to know if there had ever been any crazed people who tried to attack King for his usage of the word. Like, has he seriously seen ZERO backlash? Because, unlike Lee Harper and surely Mark Twain, the authors of the aforementioned books, respectively, I've never heard of King getting any backlash for anything he has said in his books. I've heard plenty of stories of "you stole my idea!" but nothing criticizing him for bigotry or anything like that. Not saying that he should have, I just think it's odd that I can't remember a time that this happened, being that he's, pretty much, the most successful author probably ever.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

I'm surprised that this conversation is limited to the use of the so called "N word" *shivers*
I mean, did not Detta constantly use the phrase Honky MahFah, and other assorted white racist statements? Why is it that we don't talk about King's blatant use of the "H" word? "Nigga" is a word that is constantly used by the very group that condemns its use, often in an affectionate tone. This idea of a word having inherent negativity is absurd. Abusive language is not tolerable, but if the "N" word is so terrible, then so is Honky, Cracker, Whitebread etc. Why is it that only this word gets so much attention?

[jayson]

I'm surprised that this conversation is limited to the use of the so called "N word" *shivers*
I mean, did not Detta constantly use the phrase Honky MahFah, and other assorted white racist statements? Why is it that we don't talk about King's blatant use of the "H" word? "Nigga" is a word that is constantly used by the very group that condemns its use, often in an affectionate tone. This idea of a word having inherent negativity is absurd. Abusive language is not tolerable, but if the "N" word is so terrible, then so is Honky, Cracker, Whitebread etc. Why is it that only this word gets so much attention?

Perhaps when white people deal with a few hundred years of slavery followed by a hundred more of legal segregation it will be an equitable comparison.

[John_and_Yoko]

I'm surprised that this conversation is limited to the use of the so called "N word" *shivers*
I mean, did not Detta constantly use the phrase Honky MahFah, and other assorted white racist statements? Why is it that we don't talk about King's blatant use of the "H" word? "Nigga" is a word that is constantly used by the very group that condemns its use, often in an affectionate tone. This idea of a word having inherent negativity is absurd. Abusive language is not tolerable, but if the "N" word is so terrible, then so is Honky, Cracker, Whitebread etc. Why is it that only this word gets so much attention?

Perhaps when white people deal with a few hundred years of slavery followed by a hundred more of legal segregation it will be an equitable comparison.

It's a complicated thing--most whites today aren't guilty of any of that, and yet they might still be benefiting from all that injustice, even if they're not aware that they are.

So at what point do you draw the line?

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

I'm surprised that this conversation is limited to the use of the so called "N word" *shivers*
I mean, did not Detta constantly use the phrase Honky MahFah, and other assorted white racist statements? Why is it that we don't talk about King's blatant use of the "H" word? "Nigga" is a word that is constantly used by the very group that condemns its use, often in an affectionate tone. This idea of a word having inherent negativity is absurd. Abusive language is not tolerable, but if the "N" word is so terrible, then so is Honky, Cracker, Whitebread etc. Why is it that only this word gets so much attention?

Perhaps when white people deal with a few hundred years of slavery followed by a hundred more of legal segregation it will be an equitable comparison.

Thats a load of crap. Look at Jews, mostly white. You want to talk about racism, lets talk about Native Americans, if you can find one that is. Racial statements are ALL unacceptable. If you cant see that then you dont understand racism at all.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

Now that we have a black president in the US. I dont think that anyone can say that AA citizens are not getting a fair shake. Or any other race for that matter. If you want to discuss racism, why not reverse racism. Lets compare student loans. But I guess since I am white I deserve to pay back 160,000 dollars despite a 4.0 GPA. But I didnt qualify for scholarships. Look, I hate what was done to black people during the slavery era. If I could change it I would. But we cannot. Racism is racism, no matter who is being repressed. Don't tell me that I need to go around apologizing for something that even my grandfather was not a part of. Besides, women in this country were the last to be granted suffrage. So, why dont we say the "W" word instead of woman. They were the most recent group to be repressed.

[John_and_Yoko]

Now that we have a black president in the US. I dont think that anyone can say that AA citizens are not getting a fair shake. Or any other race for that matter. If you want to discuss racism, why not reverse racism. Lets compare student loans. But I guess since I am white I deserve to pay back 160,000 dollars despite a 4.0 GPA. But I didnt qualify for scholarships. Look, I hate what was done to black people during the slavery era. If I could change it I would. But we cannot. Racism is racism, no matter who is being repressed. Don't tell me that I need to go around apologizing for something that even my grandfather was not a part of. Besides, women in this country were the last to be granted suffrage. So, why dont we say the "W" word instead of woman. They were the most recent group to be repressed.

Or the "G" word, you know, for "girl," the biggest insult in the history of insults?

Anyway, I think we're getting off-topic here....

The thing is, there's institutionalized racism and there's individualized racism (I'm using "racism" as an umbrella term--it need not refer to race at all). On an individual level, there is no "reverse" racism--racism is racism regardless of who's committing it and who's being targeted. On an institutionalized level, there is reverse racism because there's one dominant group oppressing all others. All kinds are wrong because they divide rather than uniting.

Personally, though, I think it's becoming a bit of a cliche, Stephen King making every villain he has a racist (I'm exaggerating--I haven't read NEARLY everything he's written), as if we either need to know "this is a villain because he's racist" or else "this guy's racist because he's a villain." What about people who hate (or would indifferently kill) ANYBODY, regardless of what group they happened to belong to? I'd consider THAT the ultimate in villainy--but hey, at least he wouldn't be a racist, right?

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

I do believe that racism in certain characters makes the character believable. I mean if Henry Bowers didnt hate Mike Hanlon as a black kid, his character would not have rang true. Though Henry hated everyone, he especially hated Mike and Stan.

[John_and_Yoko]

I do believe that racism in certain characters makes the character believable. I mean if Henry Bowers didnt hate Mike Hanlon as a black kid, his character would not have rang true. Though Henry hated everyone, he especially hated Mike and Stan.

Well, true--no one is the PERFECT villain as I described anyway. To do that you'd have to be evil for evil's sake, I'd think, which is for another thread....

No one's perfect, and there are racists out there. And there's a little balance in that not everyone who says something racist in King's works is THE villain.

[Jean]

Dear friends,

please, if your intention is discussing the aspects of racism in your society, do so in General Political Discussion, or if you think it deserves a separate thread, make one in Blue Heaven or Dixie Pig. The discussion here must be limited solely to King and his work, and though to make our position clear we do have to touch upon non-King issues as well, please do not let them grow out of proportion in this thread. Special thanks to J&Y for bringing the thread back to topic.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/thaku.gif

[LadyHitchhiker]

How do you mean, "want to ban"? There's no censorship here, not only within any reasonable limits; also, the absolute majority's inclinations are strictly anti-communist. I know there are people who are unhappy about it, and I personally would be, and often am, unhappy with anything anti-Russian I can see in American movies, especially if it is done out of sheer ignorance or for political reasons (which is often the same). If we're talking about a honest work of a serious author, however, the principle remains the same: books are not written with the purpose to please everybody, they are not Hallmark postcards.

At least that's what our news said, jean. But then again, we know how reliable my news media over here is.... :rolls eyes: