The Clash

[Seymour_Glass]

I just picked up the big pink Clash book at Borders. And I'm pretty much in love with them. So yeah, let's talk about 'em.

Which was your favorite of their albums? The popular choice is London Calling, and it's easy to see why, but I'm sure that everyone has their own favorite.

[William50]

Mine is Give 'Em Enough Rope.

[flaggwalkstheline]

I like combat rock and london calling about equal, though I would say the guest appearance by Allen ginsberg on Ghetto defendant gives combat rock the edge

[William50]

I gotta say that I like Give 'Em Enough Rope and London Calling equal. AHHH choosing is so hard for me!

[flaggwalkstheline]

I like all their albums, every time I listen 2 sandinista I find something new to enjoy ,its just such a gigantic album

[jayson]

Seymour, excellent thread. The Clash were a great band, and Strummer was an extremely influential songwriter for me.

I would highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to read a thorough and accurate history of the band with a lot of important contextual stuff about the time in which they arose...

Amazon.com: Passion Is a Fashion: The Real Story of the Clash: Pat Gilbert: Books


As for favorite albums, I love everything with the exception of Cut the Crap. For me, no Mick Jones equals no Clash. The eponymous first album and Give 'Em Enough Rope are both pure punk masterpieces with so much raw energy. London Calling is one of the best albums, top to bottom, of all time, not just Clash albums. Sandanista has a lot of great songs on it. It has some crappy ones too, but for a triple album, it still has more good songs than bad. While not a proper album per se, I often find myself drifting towards Black Market Clash. To hear The Clash cover Time Is Tight (one of my fav Booker T & The MG's songs) and Pressure Drop (by Toots & The Maytalls) on the same disc is a real treat. I also have a pretty decent collection of live Clash. Talk about raw power!

So has anybody else listened to The 101'ers (Strummer's pre-Clash band)? Their Elgin Avenue Breakdown is a pretty good album. Not quite the raw energy of The Clash, but certainly an interesting look at Strummer prior to meeting Simonon and Jones. Strummer's post Clash output is also well worth checking out. Earthquake Weather in particular remains a favorite of mine. I never got to see The Clash but I did see Strummer and the Mescaleros and Mick Jones with Big Audio Dynamite.

[William50]

R of G......biggest fan?

[jayson]

R of G......biggest fan?

Do you mean am I the biggest fan of the Clash? Probably not. I'm sure there are more hardcore fans than me, but they are certainly in my top 10 favorite bands and have had a major impact on the way I listen to and play music.

[William50]

Whos your #1? Just wondering.

[jayson]

Of all time, The Beatles, without question.
Of bands currently active, Radiohead.

[William50]

Oh nice! 2 of my favorites also. :thumbsup:

[jayson]

You have excellent taste. It's refreshing to see someone your age who has such a wide variety in their musical tastes as you show in some of the music threads. And you play guitar! +2 for you William.

[William50]

http://img3.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/party/party0007.gif (http://www.thescubasite.com/Scuba-Diving-Locations/) Its good to know that there are so many music fans on this site.

[jayson]

There definitely are, and there is a lot of diversity in the kind of stuff people listen to so there's a lot of knowledge changing hands.

[William50]

Its also amazing how many different types of people are DT fans. I mean we got music fans, poetry fans, movie fans, and even some Obama fans. Its cool. :)

[jayson]

Quite. Credit to King for writing a story that appeals to so many people.

[William50]

R of G, are just a DT fan? or do you like SK in general?

[jayson]

I love King. Not every single book, but the vast majority of them.

[William50]

Ok good. Same here. I like all of them except Insomnia (and the ones i havent read yet).

[Seymour_Glass]

R of G, I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention Combat Rock. Why no casbah love?

And Will, how old are you?(Not creepy) I'm 15 and a sophomore in high school, but was kind of afraid to admit it until now.

[William50]

I am a freshman. Age 15 also. Nice to meet you.:cool:

[Seymour_Glass]

I'm sorry, but I don't associate with freshmen.Kidding.
Nice to make your acquaintance as well, sir.

[William50]

You play any intruments, Seymour Glass?

[Seymour_Glass]

Bass. And I got a guitar for Christmas. I'm teaching myself.

[William50]

OHHH nice! I love playing guitar. You'll find it to be an amazing hobby. Its even better if you get good. I've won my school's talent shows for the past 2 year playing blues guitar. I suggest that you find some way to learn music theory. its very important.

[Seymour_Glass]

There's an MT class at my school. Or was. I don't know if it still exists, cause our old band teacher left to teach at a school that pays money.

[William50]

What model of guitar do you have? I have a Les Paul.

[Seymour_Glass]

I have a Triumph. It's acoustic.

[William50]

Can you play anything yet?

[jayson]

R of G, I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention Combat Rock. Why no casbah love?

I like that album too. It's got some good songs on it, but it's also a very polished album. I prefer the earlier stuff, but it does follow nicely on some of the better elements of Sandanista!. It's the last album of theirs I did like.

And good luck with learning the guitar Seymour! I taught myself and it's an incredibly rewarding thing to do. :)

[Seymour_Glass]

Will: Yeah, I can play Needle in the Hay by Elliott Smith.

R o' G: Yeah, I have to say I largely agree. But getting Alla Ginsberg on there was killer. And Know Your Rights is a favorite of mine.

[jayson]

Absolutely Seymour. It's a great song and the notion of "a public service announcement with guitars" pretty much sums up Strummer's whole approach to songwriting.

[Seymour_Glass]

I finally listened to Cut the Crap, and it's pretty horrible.

[jayson]

Told ya. :lol:
Seriously though, it's just not the Clash. As important as Strummer was, Mick Jones guitar was crucial to the sound. Without, you get Cut the Crap.

[Chap]

I don't know about albums, but "Should I stay or should I go" has been one of my favourite songs for ages. It's up there in the top 5 together with Paint it, black (Stones), Venus in furs (Velvet Underground) and "anything" by The Doors :)

[jayson]

Meh. It's pretty poppy, but it's alright. I pretty much despise the Doors.

[Brice]

Meh. It's pretty poppy, but it's alright. I pretty much despise the Doors.


:cry:

[Django]

Its also amazing how many different types of people are DT fans. I mean we got music fans, poetry fans, movie fans, and even some Obama fans. Its cool. :)

I proudly state that I fall into all these categories.

[Ruthful]

I think people don't like The Doors because you hear the same eight or nine songs Jim Morrison wrote repeated endlessly on the radio, and get sick of them, even if they're good songs.

The Clash was great though.

Listening to them is like traveling back in a time-machine.

YouTube - the Clash Career Opportunities

Don't you wish we could go back to a time when the worst thing we had to deal with was the PIRA sending you quaint letter-bombs?

Oh man, I miss the '80s.

:(

[jayson]

I have the whole Doors catalog and I still can't stand them. For me it boils down to the how mediocre they are as a band and yet they are held up as one of the bastions of exceptionality. Musically they were competent at best and yet so many classic rock fans worship them as virtuosos while bashing anything remotely punk as guys who can't play. I'll take Robert Quine (Voidoids) or Tom Verlaine (Television) or Ross Friedman (The Dictators) on guitar any day of the week before Robbie Krieger. I also think the notion of Morrison as some deep poetic lyricist is way way overblown. He wrote a handful of somewhat decent songs but the lyrics are not as insightful as he's given credit for.

Not that Strummer doesn't get too much credit as well. He's not exactly the revolutionary he's made out to be, but he at least presented it in a more interesting way, to me anyway.

[flaggwalkstheline]

I have the whole Doors catalog and I still can't stand them. For me it boils down to the how mediocre they are as a band and yet they are held up as one of the bastions of exceptionality. Musically they were competent at best and yet so many classic rock fans worship them as virtuosos while bashing anything remotely punk as guys who can't play. I'll take Robert Quine (Voidoids) or Tom Verlaine (Television) or Ross Friedman (The Dictators) on guitar any day of the week before Robbie Krieger. I also think the notion of Morrison as some deep poetic lyricist is way way overblown. He wrote a handful of somewhat decent songs but the lyrics are not as insightful as he's given credit for.

Not that Strummer doesn't get too much credit as well. He's not exactly the revolutionary he's made out to be, but he at least presented it in a more interesting way, to me anyway.

gots 2 disagree w/ ya about this and leap to the defense of dead jimmy and the doors:cool:
The doors are musically and lyrically so far ahead of any of their contemporaries and indeed of most bands today that its downright spooky
In their music one can hear glimmers of what would become punk, new wave, nu-metal, post rock, prog rock, emo/ goth, grunge and a lot of stuff that hasnt been touched by anyone else

YouTube - The Doors When The Music's Over,(Live At Hollywood Bowl).

[jayson]

We can agree to disagree bc there's no way I'm crediting the doors with being the precursors of about half of that claim.

[Brice]

I have the whole Doors catalog and I still can't stand them. For me it boils down to the how mediocre they are as a band and yet they are held up as one of the bastions of exceptionality. Musically they were competent at best and yet so many classic rock fans worship them as virtuosos while bashing anything remotely punk as guys who can't play. I'll take Robert Quine (Voidoids) or Tom Verlaine (Television) or Ross Friedman (The Dictators) on guitar any day of the week before Robbie Krieger. I also think the notion of Morrison as some deep poetic lyricist is way way overblown. He wrote a handful of somewhat decent songs but the lyrics are not as insightful as he's given credit for.

Not that Strummer doesn't get too much credit as well. He's not exactly the revolutionary he's made out to be, but he at least presented it in a more interesting way, to me anyway.

Though I love The Doors I'd have to agree with everything you've said except with regards to Jim. Now, I'm not saying he was a deep poetic lyricist or anything, but I think he had something special there. His band however did not. I'd guess nearly any competent studio musician could do what they did.



I have the whole Doors catalog and I still can't stand them. For me it boils down to the how mediocre they are as a band and yet they are held up as one of the bastions of exceptionality. Musically they were competent at best and yet so many classic rock fans worship them as virtuosos while bashing anything remotely punk as guys who can't play. I'll take Robert Quine (Voidoids) or Tom Verlaine (Television) or Ross Friedman (The Dictators) on guitar any day of the week before Robbie Krieger. I also think the notion of Morrison as some deep poetic lyricist is way way overblown. He wrote a handful of somewhat decent songs but the lyrics are not as insightful as he's given credit for.

Not that Strummer doesn't get too much credit as well. He's not exactly the revolutionary he's made out to be, but he at least presented it in a more interesting way, to me anyway.

gots 2 disagree w/ ya about this and leap to the defense of dead jimmy and the doors:cool:
The doors are musically and lyrically so far ahead of any of their contemporaries and indeed of most bands today that its downright spooky
In their music one can hear glimmers of what would become punk, new wave, nu-metal, post rock, prog rock, emo/ goth, grunge and a lot of stuff that hasnt been touched by anyone else

YouTube - The Doors When The Music's Over,(Live At Hollywood Bowl).
I love The Doors, but I think the statement regarding their influence is a bit reaching myself.

[Django]

I I also think the notion of Morrison as some deep poetic lyricist is way way overblown.


Absolutely!

[jayson]

Though I love The Doors I'd have to agree with everything you've said except with regards to Jim. Now, I'm not saying he was a deep poetic lyricist or anything, but I think he had something special there.

There's room for disagreement on that aspect of things. It's necessarily subjective. Morrison's lyrics might do for some what they don't do for others.



I love The Doors, but I think the statement regarding their influence is a bit reaching myself.

Perhaps flaggwalkstheline could cite some specific examples. I for one would love to hear:

(A) where he things the Doors influenced punk, because I have heard many different theories on who the progenitors of punk are and not once have I heard the Doors. If anything, the Doors represent exactly they kind of band most punk musicians were trying desperately not to sound like.

(B) I'd like to hear his definition of 'new wave' because I suspect he is using it incorrectly. Not his fault as the word retroactively got redefined as something it was not, but in it's initial context 'new wave' was used to describe the early punk scenes coalescing in New York and England. The word was used to describe Television and the Ramones and the Pistols and Buzzcocks and, to stay on topic for this thread, the Clash and all of the other bands in those scenes. Many of the musicians preferred the term to punk and Malcolm McLaren (manager of the Pistols and ideological godfather to the British punk scene) lobbied hard to get that word out there instead of punk. However, because the New York scene involved bands like Talking Heads and Blondie, the word eventually became used to describe things that sounded like what those bands sounded like a bit later. Blondie at CBGB's sounded nothing like the Blondie most people think of when they think of Blondie.

Whatever you call it, I don't see how the Doors influenced it either. The Doors, like the Dead, were very much a blues-based band that incorporated a few other elements into their music, but not many of those that I see in Flagg's post. At least I don't hear it.

[Seymour_Glass]

I don't know about albums, but "Should I stay or should I go" has been one of my favourite songs for ages. It's up there in the top 5 together with Paint it, black (Stones), Venus in furs (Velvet Underground) and "anything" by The Doors :)

I have to agree with R of G about that song. Doesn't come near their greatest.
I also love the velvet Underground.
And I have to say that the Doors are entirely overrated. And they're not at all punk.

And about Cut the Crap, I agree with you RoG. Without Mick Jones driving the melodies and arrangements it was just a complete mess. Joe was completely burnt out, too. It's hard to believe that one band could have such good and bad music

[Brice]

The only aspect of The Doors I can remotely see as punk (...and it is remote) is Morrison's don't giva fuck about anything (beyond the music/poems) attitude. In large part though I suspect that was the booze, but Morrison seemed a bit more authentic (to use Jayson's favorite word) than his band. Honestly, I think he'd have been better off without those guys. Musically I see the Doors as FAR removed from punk...and I think he'd probably agree.

[jayson]

I also love the velvet Underground.

One of my fav bands ever and an influence on so many bands that followed. They are a true forerunner of punk.



And about Cut the Crap, I agree with you RoG. Without Mick Jones driving the melodies and arrangements it was just a complete mess. Joe was completely burnt out, too. It's hard to believe that one band could have such good and bad music

It's like the athlete who doesn't retire when he's still on top of his game and then you have to watch him be mediocre. Not that Strummer should have retired but he should have disbanded the Clash. He took several years to regroup (pun intended) and his solo work with and without the Mescaleros was much more worthy than that final Clash effort. Jones also did some interesting stuff with Big Audio Dynamite. I saw BAD and I saw Strummer and the Mescaleros but never saw the Clash. It was still great to see two of my musical icons.

[jayson]

The only aspect of The Doors I can remotely see as punk (...and it is remote) is Morrison's don't giva fuck about anything (beyond the music/poems) attitude. In large part though I suspect that was the booze, but Morrison seemed a bit more authentic (to use Jayson's favorite word) than his band. Honestly, I think he'd have been better off without those guys. Musically I see the Doors as FAR removed from punk...and I think he'd probably agree.

I do agree Brice, completely.

[Chap]

maybe someone should make a Doors thread? It's kind of off topic here, wouldn't you think? :P

[Brice]

A Doors thread wouldn't be a bad idea. Go ahead if you like. I do think that in any music discussion there is gonna' be some overlap though.

[jayson]

I do think that in any music discussion there is gonna' be some overlap though.

I concur with that. No band exists in a vacuum. Still, a thread on the Doors would be fine too. If flaggwalkstheline wants to give some examples on where he hears some of the things he hears in their music, that might be the place to do so, but I can't imagine that that conversation won't very rapidly expand to involve discussion of dozens of other bands. It's pretty difficult with music not to compare and contrast.

[Brice]

No band is an island. :cyclops:

[jayson]

Though I've met a lot of fans of many many bands who seem to think so. I always get a kick out of people who have no clue about the influences on their favorite bands and artists. It's always fun when you have to tell them a song is a cover and then even more when you tell them who originally did the song and they look at you with utter confusion as you mention a band they've never heard of.

[Brice]

Yes, ignorant fans are amusing...especially when their really diehard and sincere about it.

[jayson]

Oh yes, the ignorant diehards are the greatest thing ever. :evil:

[Brice]

Of course I love antagonizing the belligerent drunks too. :lol:

[jayson]

Another hobby of mine. :)

[Seymour_Glass]

Belligerent drunks are more fun than ignorant fans, in my opinion. They don't piss me off as much.

[jayson]

It depends highly on the venue and the performance. This past summer at Radiohead the drunken frat boy who wanted to fight me pissed me off to no end. How dare I suggest he not smoke cigarettes next to my pregnant wife at a no-smoking venue. All I did was tell him to put it out. I could have called security and had him kicked out but I didn't want to deny him seeing the show, just wanted him to not smoke two feet away from a pregnant woman who had as much right to see the show as he did (more really since he was a poser frat boy and my wife has been a fan of the band since 1993).

There were also the drunken morons when I went to see the Flecktones who were being loud and obnoxious during Victor Wooten's extended bass solo. Who goes to see one of the best bass players on the planet and then talks loudly during his soloing? Not these guys after I told them to shut the hell up. Not all concerts are for yelling and going "whoooooo!" Some are for listening. :)

[Seymour_Glass]

I netflixed Joe Strummer: The Future is Unwritten and loved it. All of the celebs interviewed were really cool. Especially Scorsese and Flea, who I had always thought of as a crazy mute.

And, afterwards I finally listened to some Mescaleros stuff. I'd been subconsciously avoiding it before, but I'm glad I broke that. They're not the Clash, but they're definitely enjoyable.

[Seymour_Glass]

My friend and I are writing a Clash musical. like Across the Universe, only punker. Cuz, you know, it's the Clash.