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View Full Version : What do you think about Jake's parents?



Letti
08-04-2007, 05:00 AM
Somehow I liked them a lot. I think they have never understood Jake but I think they loved him a lot but they weren't able to show him their feelings.
I wish we knew more about Jake's mother.


After Jake's vanishing I am sure their life became hell and everything was ruined around them.

Daghain
08-04-2007, 09:09 AM
I thought his dad was a total jerk, and his mother was too self-absorbed. I was really rooting for Jake toget the hell out of there and go back to Roland, who was a better parent to him than the two who donated their DNA.

Jean
08-04-2007, 09:44 AM
I thought his dad was a total jerk, and his mother was too self-absorbed. I was really rooting for Jake toget the hell out of there and go back to Roland, who was a better parent to him than the two who donated their DNA.
ditto

Letti
08-04-2007, 12:09 PM
I know very well that they weren't good parents.. but still I felt sorry for them.

Daghain
08-04-2007, 12:22 PM
You have a far bigger heart than I. Letti. That's why I like you. :)

Letti
08-04-2007, 12:36 PM
Oh no... I don't think so but thank you for your kind words.
I just see my parents in them I think... I mean I was quite a strange kid myself and they didn't really understand me. They tried their best and they gave me so much but they never knew me. I love and I respect them a lot and now I know I should have told them a lot of things I shouldn't have been so closed I didn't dare to talk about... and damn I was a kid. They should have found the way to me.
But I think I have the best parents all over the world but they are humans as well with lots of mistakes.
Maybe that's why I felt sorry for Jake's parents. I don't know.

She-Oy
08-04-2007, 10:43 PM
I loathed Jake's parents. I felt like King did too. Jake was the product of two selfish, self-absorbed people who didn't give a good god-damn about their child. Luckily they were rich, so they could hire someone to care.

As for him being better off with Roland, I suppose, maybe, but he was still an afterthought...the tower was more important to Roland than Jake.

I almost think that's why Jake had Oy. He had to have someone who gave him unconditional love, and that's the void Oy help fill. He knew Jake needed that.

Wuducynn
08-05-2007, 08:48 AM
I thought his dad was a total jerk, and his mother was too self-absorbed. I was really rooting for Jake toget the hell out of there and go back to Roland, who was a better parent to him than the two who donated their DNA.
ditto

Double ditto and three quarters..

Darkthoughts
08-08-2007, 01:03 PM
Yep, they were total self obsessed arses and I think after Jake's disappearance they would easily let their sorrow become self pity and thus give themselves (in their own minds) more justification for drinking, snorting and sleeping around.

For your pov Letti, I'd agree that they probably had unhappy lives themselves to feel unable and unaware of how to support and nuture their own child, and thats always sad.

Chassit
08-09-2007, 09:10 AM
Agreed Darkthoughts, I would think they would just delve deeper into depression and use more drugs as a result.

XIX

Darkthoughts
08-09-2007, 11:57 AM
Sure thing Chassit - King really has a knack of observing that side of life in his books.

Malficeus
01-17-2008, 07:30 PM
There is a problem when your house keeper knows whats going on in your kids life more then you do. His da had way to many problems and was a workaholic but with his job i wanted to know who keeps a Kruger in a desk? and as for his mum shes pliable she bends to the stronger so shes praticlly useless for anything

ATG
01-17-2008, 07:32 PM
Reminded me of mine. Except we were broke.

obscurejude
01-17-2008, 07:35 PM
I hope Black 13 sent Jake's parents into eternal todash. Hated them.

ManOfWesternesse
01-18-2008, 05:33 AM
The 2 characters were well used by King in the Book.
Typical of a certain kind of parent in real life nowadays. They had too much happening in their own lives to be seriously interested in Jake's day-to-day life.
But yes, there were certainly indications that they loved him, in their own way, and were concerned about him. They were just too inneffective to do anything meaningful about it.

My overall feelings for them & their loss of jake?
Indifference, I guess...

jayson
01-18-2008, 07:47 AM
Count me into the "despised them" camp. I've said before that Jake Chambers is possibly my fav fictional character, certainly my fav character in DT. A good deal of that is because I see a lot of my own childhood in Jake's, with one exception, I had great parents. As far as the strangeness and the loneliness and the lack of real friends, that seemed very familiar to me, but the parents, that's where I really felt terribly for Jake. I don't doubt that Jake's parents did love him on some level, but they'd have been wise to make sure he knew that they did. I didn't talk to my parents a lot when I was his age but I always knew if I absolutely had to, I could and I didn't have to fear them as Jake did his father.

alinda
01-18-2008, 10:29 AM
Sadly this is what some people whould actually do.....pathetic isnt it?








Yep, they were total self obsessed arses and I think after Jake's disappearance they would easily let their sorrow become self pity and thus give themselves (in their own minds) more justification for drinking, snorting and sleeping around.

For your pov Letti, I'd agree that they probably had unhappy lives themselves to feel unable and unaware of how to support and nuture their own child, and thats always sad.

Matt
01-18-2008, 02:00 PM
Its funny, because I can usually identify with parents of all shapes and sizes.

I remember reading these two and thinking there was no way I could identify with any part of either of them.

Jean
01-18-2008, 11:47 PM
they always seemed to me a little exaggerated as characters. As if Mr.King decided to make his own task easier, not making Jake face the horrible choice between the world behind the door and normal parents.

Letti
01-19-2008, 01:17 AM
they always seemed to me a little exaggerated as characters. As if Mr.King decided to make his own task easier, not making Jake face the horrible choice between the world behind the door and normal parents.
I must disagree, Jean.
First of all I don't think that King is that type of author who chooses the easier way... no, I don't think so. He writes what he must write. Even if it made Jake's choice easier (I am not sure about it at all) that's how it had to be.
- Anyway if you look at the psychological part of it usually the kids who are treated badly by their parents (even if they are hit or even worse) love and are hooked on their parents much more than the well-treated ones. It's a fact. -
Secondly, what do you mean by normal parents?? Most of the parents (if not all) make lots of mistakes and many of them are big. I do love my parents and I respect them but when I look back... they could make horrible things.
So for me Jake's parents are absolutely normal. I might live in a darker world but they are. They didn't hit him to coma they gave him food they loved him but they couldn't show it... so in my eyes they weren't mosters at all and they were absolutely normal. Not good. Not at all. But normal.

Darkthoughts
01-20-2008, 01:20 PM
Anyway if you look at the psychological part of it usually the kids who are treated badly by their parents (even if they are hit or even worse) love and are hooked on their parents much more than the well-treated ones. It's a fact. -
I wouldn't say deprived/abused kids love their parents more than well treated kids, but I'm sure they crave normal love more, as a result of not receiving it.


So for me Jake's parents are absolutely normal. I might live in a darker world but they are. They didn't hit him to coma they gave him food they loved him but they couldn't show it... so in my eyes they weren't mosters at all and they were absolutely normal. Not good. Not at all. But normal.
I see what you're saying, sure they didn't physically abuse him, but they neglected him emotionally. I don't think they were monsters either, but they weren't normal parents in my eyes, they were too self involved - I consider normal to be a parent who was able to put his/her child's needs before that of their own the majority of the time.
I don't think normal is perhaps the best word, its very PC but my Dad and his other social worker colleagues use the term "good enough parent" instead of normal and abnormal - I guess it casts less aspersions, but I think the PC term is, for once, better in this context :)

ManOfWesternesse
01-20-2008, 01:27 PM
Dark, that's a good distinction with the PC thing.
I certainly would not call Jakes parents 'normal' either - it just would'nt ring true for me - but 'good enough' ? Maybe...

I see where Letti's coming from though - these 2 did not wrong Jake in any way by intent, but purely by neglect (not any physical neglect no, but emotional yes). They were not 'bad' parents, certainly not 'great' ones, and for me they probably fall a bit short of 'good' too.

jayson
01-20-2008, 01:31 PM
Lisa & Brian, I am with you both. "Normal" can be a bit subjective. Neglectful and self-absorbed would be accurate descriptors. Those are not qualities that make for good parents, but I agree that they never intentionally hurt Jake. I think they were a bit too self-absorbed to realize they were doing anything "wrong."

Darkthoughts
01-20-2008, 01:37 PM
Yes, for me they were people that probably had a child because it was part of what they thought you should do, rather than considering if they actually wanted to, or if they had the time and emotional stability it takes to be a parent.

jayson
01-20-2008, 01:42 PM
I agree completely. Jake was more of an accessory than a human being to them.

sarah
01-20-2008, 04:27 PM
Yes, for me they were people that probably had a child because it was part of what they thought you should do, rather than considering if they actually wanted to, or if they had the time and emotional stability it takes to be a parent.



yes. I so agree with you. Jake's parents seemed like the type of people who were struggling with their own demons. They tried in their own way to take care of Jake (Gretta Shaw), but were too absorbed in their own shit to really be good parents. I think that if they sobered up and got their own shit together and divorced they may have been more aware of Jake and what was happening to him.

The thing is, it was the 70's. You gotta keep that in mind, too, imo.

Wuducynn
01-20-2008, 06:04 PM
but with his job i wanted to know who keeps a Kruger in a desk?

What does his job have to do with that?

jayson
01-21-2008, 09:21 AM
but with his job i wanted to know who keeps a Kruger in a desk?

What does his job have to do with that?

Exactly. He kept a Ruger in his desk likely bc he lived in Manhattan.

Childe 007
01-21-2008, 10:43 PM
Jake was a child to them.

Something that happened and they had to care for it as best they could.

As with all of us - we do the best with what we are given.

Jake's father put him in the best of schools and hired the best of nannies for him. He cared for him as best he could.

Is he the perfect daddy?

Is any one?

ManOfWesternesse
01-22-2008, 01:42 AM
Jake was a child to them.
Jake's father put him in the best of schools and hired the best of nannies for him. He cared for him as best he could.


The first & second sentences there don't fit too well together for me, say sorry.
Yes, his parents were rich.
They paid for him to go to a good school.
They paid for a good nanny/housekeeper to care for him.

Does that = "He cared for him as best he could."?? Not really to my mind - they needed to give a bit of themselves to him - not just their money.

Not that they mistreated him or anything, as I said before - just that they neglected him, imho.

jayson
01-22-2008, 05:58 AM
Paying for expensive schools and nannies is not parenting. It's a more civil form of neglect.

obscurejude
01-22-2008, 08:59 PM
Paying for expensive schools and nannies is not parenting. It's a more civil form of neglect.

Even negative feedback is better than no feedback at all for children.

LadyHitchhiker
01-22-2008, 10:12 PM
Jake's mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries!

Letti
01-22-2008, 10:35 PM
Jake was a child to them.
Jake's father put him in the best of schools and hired the best of nannies for him. He cared for him as best he could.


The first & second sentences there don't fit too well together for me, say sorry.
Yes, his parents were rich.
They paid for him to go to a good school.
They paid for a good nanny/housekeeper to care for him.

Does that = "He cared for him as best he could."?? Not really to my mind - they needed to give a bit of themselves to him - not just their money.

How true.

Altought I don't think that Jake's parents were so horrible I must say with the nanny they were just lucky. I can't imagine that they were looking for a good nanny for long. They chose one and thank God she was a good-hearted one.
About the school.. Jake had to go to the best school to prove his parents that what they were doing was good and not selfish.
"Look, my son goes to the best school of the country. That's why I work. (Not because I am hungry for money, nono.) I work because my son desveres the best."
I think you get what I mean.
So with the nanny and the school they didn't do anything.

jayson
01-23-2008, 06:41 AM
About the school.. Jake had to go to the best school to prove his parents that what they were doing was good and not selfish.
"Look, my son goes to the best school of the country. That's why I work. (Not because I am hungry for money, nono.) I work because my son desveres the best."

I saw it more as a status thing with the Chambers and Piper. I'm not saying Elmer didn't think going to Piper would be good for Jake's future, but to me it seemed more like he sent him there because that's where the son of a man as important as Elmer was "supposed" to go to school.


Jake's mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries!

Thanks for the free laugh! Great reference.

ManOfWesternesse
01-23-2008, 08:18 AM
Jake's mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries!

Thanks for the free laugh! Great reference.
Yes, but it would have been prudent to fart in their general direction whilst saying it! :lol:

LadyHitchhiker
01-27-2008, 06:40 PM
Jake's mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries!

Thanks for the free laugh! Great reference.
Yes, but it would have been prudent to fart in their general direction whilst saying it! :lol:

You are nothing but a silly english k-n-n-n-nn-igget!

Storyslinger
01-28-2008, 11:27 AM
I didn't like them a bit, but I think they were a big part of the way the kid turned out, which I did like.

Therefore, I fell the were a nessacary evil.

kithereal
01-28-2008, 02:42 PM
I didn't think much of Jake's parents. I don't think that Jake had the worst parents in the world. There simply was no bonding between the parents and the child. That was was the message that I think King was trying to make. I know that Jake was sad about this and as reader that made your heart ache for him...this is what made US BOND with Jake. ( at least this is what made my heart open to him ) I think that the lack of bonding was written to show that your family is not always your true family...that there are bonds that are more powerful than the what most of consider the most solid bonds( like blood relatives )
Jake was not destined to stay with his parents.
....Jake was supposed to be with Roland, Eddie, Susan and OY...
Oy was Jake's truest bond...Oy was Jake's most cherished love...OY loved Jake like he deserved to be loved...and jake loved him...
A boy and his dog to 100000000000000000X.
KIT

jayson
01-28-2008, 02:51 PM
Kithereal, that's a very good take on it, that it was about the lack of bonding between Jake and the Chambers. I had not thought of it like that, but it makes perfect sense.

Malficeus
01-30-2008, 08:57 PM
but with his job i wanted to know who keeps a Kruger in a desk?

What does his job have to do with that?

well i self assumed since it was his study he used it for work but still who keeps one there? keep it some where like on top of a dresser or something

ATG
01-30-2008, 09:01 PM
not if you have kids mate!

Letti
02-01-2008, 09:38 AM
but with his job i wanted to know who keeps a Kruger in a desk?

What does his job have to do with that?

well i self assumed since it was his study he used it for work but still who keeps one there? keep it some where like on top of a dresser or something

People can keep their guns (an other dangerous things) at incredible places.

Ka-tet
02-24-2008, 03:53 AM
I think we all agree that roland was a better parent to jake than his biolocical ones, it was Ka after all. And i do belive that jake was better off with rolandeven if it lead to his death, i belived he died to proctect somthing he thought worth fighting for but i cant help but feel a little bit of sorrow for his real parents. They lost a child afterall..

Woofer
02-24-2008, 08:22 AM
Whenever I read the parts with Jakes' parents, I think if Pearl Jam's song Jeremy.

"Daddy didn't give attention
Oh, to the fact that mommy didn't care"

and later

"Daddy didn't give affection, no...
And the boy was something that mommy wouldn't wear"

jayson
02-24-2008, 08:25 AM
Whenever I read the parts with Jakes' parents, I think if Pearl Jam's song Jeremy.

"Daddy didn't give attention
Oh, to the fact that mommy didn't care"

and later

"Daddy didn't give affection, no...
And the boy was something that mommy wouldn't wear"

very similar thoughts here, at least jake took out his violence in another world not his classroom like jeremy.

Woofer
02-25-2008, 05:34 PM
Yes! I think the King Jeremy the Wicked part of Jake is most evident when the taxi driver almost hits Oy. Jaysus! Thank ka that he was of the White - for that matter, thank ka that they were all of the White.

HanzouNorak
02-25-2008, 09:19 PM
his dad was one of the types that was self absorbed but really wasn't trying to ignore his son. it was just his natrue. his mother seemed like the type that feared her husband, not the kind of fear with abusive husbands, but the kind fear where she didn't want to anger him or annoy him.

mia/susannah
02-26-2008, 07:40 AM
I thought his dad was a total jerk, and his mother was too self-absorbed. I was really rooting for Jake toget the hell out of there and go back to Roland, who was a better parent to him than the two who donated their DNA.

I have to agree with you. I felt that Jakes parents did not care enuogh for him. Roland was a better parent. :orely:

Elle216
09-01-2008, 11:05 PM
I think Jake was very much on his own, I don't think his parents really cared much about him either way. When he cut school, their reaction or at least his fathers was so strong because he had been embarrassed not because Jake might have been hurt. I got the sense that Jake was a very lonely boy with no one to turn too.

Letti
09-02-2008, 02:57 AM
You are absolutely right, Elle.

Anyway...
what do you guys think about Jake feelings? Has he ever missed his parents?

ManOfWesternesse
09-02-2008, 03:25 AM
He missed them only in a very remote way at times I think. Like ".... I'm supposed to miss them, therefore I miss them..."
In reality, even sitting there alone in the desert at the Waystation I think he may have grieved for a lot of things, but not particularly for his parents.

stone, rose, unfound door
09-02-2008, 05:09 AM
I loathed Jake's parents. I felt like King did too. Jake was the product of two selfish, self-absorbed people who didn't give a good god-damn about their child. Luckily they were rich, so they could hire someone to care.

As for him being better off with Roland, I suppose, maybe, but he was still an afterthought...the tower was more important to Roland than Jake.

I almost think that's why Jake had Oy. He had to have someone who gave him unconditional love, and that's the void Oy help fill. He knew Jake needed that.

I wouldn't say I loathed them but I have to agree on the rest of your statement. I didn't really like Jake's parents, I just thought they were quite average: a lot of people want to have a career that'll help them take care of those they want to be in charge of (usually their kids) and end up caring so much about being able to care that they forget to care properly (is it clear enough?) and the child feels left out when everything's done for his/her sake, but the bad way, so it all becomes quie awkward as there can be no understanding, the parents being sure they've done the best they could and the child feeling abandoned in a way.
I actually thought that they both were weak people. Jake's father does drugs and takes way too much everytime something's not right and his mother sleeps with everyone because she lacks self confidence and needs to know that she is desired. That's at least how I saw them both.

stone, rose, unfound door
09-02-2008, 05:10 AM
You are absolutely right, Elle.

Anyway...
what do you guys think about Jake feelings? Has he ever missed his parents?

He doesn't seem to...

Silvermoth
11-07-2008, 05:05 PM
I never saw Jake's "parents" as his real parents. (Spoiler warning) I assumed that the child Susan was carrying when she died was actually Jake and in the same way Ka found a way to reincarnate Cuthbert as Eddie, it recreated that child in a different reality. So the Chambers were only surrogate parents (in my opinion) and therefore I was happy when Jake met his real father.

at_one
11-23-2008, 08:36 PM
Jake's parents = <thumbs down> Whenever the house's caretaker knows more about the children of the house then the parents (and the parents openly admit it) there is an issue. They created a young man that was confident in his independence at an early age which in turn made it easier for him to leave them. They must lie in the bed they made.

LadyHitchhiker
11-24-2008, 06:33 AM
I think Jake was more of a status symbol to the parents.

Brice
11-26-2008, 01:28 PM
I think he was no more than a decoration.

Letti
11-26-2008, 01:33 PM
I would be interested in his parents' future without Jake... I am sure they thought their son had escaped (because of the horrible stress and NOT because of the lack of care or love) and their life got ruined.

Jean
11-26-2008, 02:27 PM
I would be interested in his parents' future without Jake... I am sure they thought their son had escaped (because of the horrible stress and NOT because of the lack of care or love) and their life got ruined.
I thought about that, too, in the light of what Roland had to go through in The Waste Lands (there was a boy - there was no boy).

Darkthoughts
11-26-2008, 02:41 PM
I expect the mother got drunk all day and blamed the father, and the father got coked up and blamed the mother...neither one wanting to or able to take the guilt, as they were similarly unable to take responsibility for their son when he was there.

Jean
11-26-2008, 02:46 PM
yes... but how about their son having or not having been run over by a car?

Darkthoughts
11-26-2008, 02:47 PM
The same. I can't credit them with any feelings other than self pity disguised as sorrow.

Jean
11-26-2008, 02:51 PM
But it's not a question of feelings. I think anybody would start losing their mind if they had two conflicting sets of memories.

Brice
11-26-2008, 02:51 PM
But why would they have two sets of memories?

Darkthoughts
11-26-2008, 02:56 PM
Ohhh, I see what you mean!

I didn't think of anyone but Roland and Jake having those twin memories to contend with. The way I saw it, Jake's death by the car occurred in one version of NY...he then fell into the way station world...he then fell into another version of NY and became his own twinner, posessing and melding into whichever Jake previously existed there - much the same as Jack Sawyer does with his (deceased) twinner, Jason, in The Talisman.

Jean
11-26-2008, 02:57 PM
It depends on how you look at the time line and the co-ordination of the universes. It seems to me that they must suffer exactly the same thing as Roland in the Waste Land, but I know there are opinions the structure of the whole thing is different.

EDITED: I posted before I saw Lisa's post - I see what you mean, but it raises more questions than it answers, only they are not for this thread.

Brice
11-26-2008, 02:59 PM
I think they wouldn't because the paradox was created by Jake and Roland's knowledge of his death. Jake's parents had no such knowledge of his death and then seeing him and interacting with him afterwards.

Jean
11-26-2008, 03:01 PM
er... I expect after he was run over they were called and had to go through all the nightmare of identification and burial. That's what bothered me most of all. However you treat your son, you can't bury him and then unbury him and remain unscathed (again, if we do not accept Lisa's, and other thinkers', theory)

Brice
11-26-2008, 03:06 PM
I don't know are you talking about when Balazar pushed him in front of the car sending him to the way station and then the space in between his return to his world?

Jean
11-26-2008, 03:12 PM
Yes. We don't know what that space could have been. It is possible to presume it was as long as it took for him to travel with Roland till he was dropped; long enough for his parents to go through some unforgettable experience.

(if we keep to same Jake/ same parents theory, of course. If we don't, I anticipate some bigger problems)

Darkthoughts
11-26-2008, 03:15 PM
For me it's same Jake (although he becomes an amalgamation of himself and the Jake who's level of the Tower he drops into), different parents.

Jean
11-26-2008, 03:19 PM
Where's the Jake whom those parents used to have?

Brice
11-26-2008, 03:22 PM
Hmm.... I think it might work a bit differently. Jake is pushed in front of the car and appears in Roland's world. If Jake doesn't return to his world he is dead. However when he does return his death is negated. It actually never happened. He was never hit by the car. He never died. He went about his life. But he still had shadows of memories of what didn't happen: him meeting Roland at the way station. Roland also had these memories, but they were lesser memories than the realities that Jake never died in New York for Jake and that Roland never met the boy, but they both still remembered the opposite memories too. His parents wouldn't be involved because they had no intimate knowledge of his death. They had never been called about his death because he never died....until he returned to Roland's world. And then in fact they had been notified of his death at the scene of the accident and they would have probably already begun to move on with their lives. I realize i may not be explaining myself well. I've been up something like 30 hours.

Brice
11-26-2008, 03:23 PM
It is the same Jake...same Roland...same jake's parents...different realities.

Darkthoughts
11-26-2008, 03:29 PM
Still there.

I think (based on how I interpret King's concepts of other worlds) there are Keystone People, just as there are Keystone worlds.

In the other worlds, other versions of the keystone person exist. But they are essentially shades of the keystone self. What I mean by that is, that if they are killed they simply die, whereas the keystone self - upon death - can travel into/inhabit the life of any of it's other selves. This explains the Jake that Roland, Suze and Eddie draw and also the Jake and Eddie Suze finds at the end of DT7.

I think normally the keystone self forgets it's previous life (as DT7 jake does ) but it was because of the connection between Roland and Jake (and probably that old fiend ka), that Wastelands Jake does not and therefore becomes divided.

Brice
11-26-2008, 03:33 PM
I don't think there are multiples or twinners or anything like that in The DT world...or at least not in the sense of one entity travelling into their otherselves. I think if anything they are all wholly and seperately themselves.

Darkthoughts
11-26-2008, 03:36 PM
I think Roland is singular, but not the majority of people.

Brice
11-26-2008, 03:37 PM
I do..I think they all are.

Darkthoughts
11-26-2008, 03:41 PM
Then here we stand divided...ha ha, get it? :lol:

Brice
11-26-2008, 03:42 PM
Yes, but in another world we wholly agree. :couple:

LadyHitchhiker
11-26-2008, 04:02 PM
Wouldn't his parents go crazy since they lost their son but didn't lose their son?

Brice
11-26-2008, 05:26 PM
By some theories..yes. By mine...no, not at all.

LadyHitchhiker
11-26-2008, 05:40 PM
Ooooooooooooh explain your theory!!! :excited:

jayson
11-26-2008, 05:43 PM
I see it, more or less, the way Brice explained it. When the paradox was ended for Roland and Jake, the relative pasts were altered to accommodate the events as they happened.

Brice
11-26-2008, 05:49 PM
That's pretty close to exactly it. I'm just glad I was somehow coherent at this point. I need to go sleep. :lol:

jayson
11-26-2008, 05:53 PM
It's not easy to explain metaphysics and time travel paradoxes on a full night's sleep. I think you did fairly well considering your lack of sleep. :)

Letti
11-26-2008, 10:46 PM
er... I expect after he was run over they were called and had to go through all the nightmare of identification and burial. That's what bothered me most of all. However you treat your son, you can't bury him and then unbury him and remain unscathed (again, if we do not accept Lisa's, and other thinkers', theory)

Yeah but in this case all the people who knew Jake and got the information about his death should have the same problem. Not just the parents.

I see your point Jean and I had been thinking about this problem for long.
In fact if we look at the logical side only Roland should have double memories. Jake shouldn't... he never died he never met Roland BECAUSE Roland went back in time to save his life. But Roland didn't travel in time (he travelled in Jake's time but not in his, he never went back in his world) his clock didn't go back so it's normal that he had both the memory lines.

So it should be logical that if Jake had both all the people around him who knew him and knew he had died once should have both BUT I think Jake is special.
He is very strong in the touch. He shouldn't he mustn't remember or have any idea of the travelling he had in that other world where he met his true father but he is so strong in touch that he is able to. Maybe because he can feel Roland's suffering through the worlds and he gets the pictures in his mind as well.

To sum up: Only one person should have double memories if we look at the logical side and it's Roland. Jake has the same problem only because of the touch.

Brice
11-27-2008, 03:27 AM
I gotta disagree with you on that Letti. Jake remembered dying and he had a lesser memory of Roland and his world...lesser because he simultaneously had all his normal memories...and to me this is completely logical.

As I see it though noone but Roland and Jake should have these problems.

Letti
11-27-2008, 03:49 AM
How can he remember it if it never happened?

Brice
11-27-2008, 03:53 AM
Because just like Shrodinger's cat it both did and didn't happen at the same time. Only in this case death is the opening of the box.

Darkthoughts
11-27-2008, 05:56 AM
Wouldn't his parents go crazy since they lost their son but didn't lose their son?


Ooooooooooooh explain your theory!!! :excited:

Liz, did you not read the previous posts? :lol:

LadyHitchhiker
11-27-2008, 08:12 AM
Maybe :unsure:

:wtf: Must have missed some.

Whitey Appleseed
12-26-2008, 06:57 PM
Laurie Chambers doesn't really know what's happening in her son's life, does she? She has her boyfriends. She still thinks he hates Brussels sprouts and likes corn-on-the-cob, or something...I've got that part wrong, but could be they're hung up on the tracks of life that have told them how to raise a son, or a child, and though the old man, Elmer Chambers, certainly is focused in that regard, he's as clueless as his wife. Laurie, to her credit, wants to bring in a doctor when Jake returns, bloodied and dirty. Doesn't happen, though. I think his mother treated him as if she wanted a girl--she relented and gave in to his wish for a short haircut. Loved that description of the old man's haircut, a flattop, crew-cut...can't find it now, but it was great.

Still, Jake turned out okay, so they did their best and that's all we can do.

But they are a kind of force for predestination, aren't they? Aren't all parents, in some regard, a force like that? Where do you draw the line, or what standard does one use?

Darkthoughts
12-29-2008, 06:54 AM
I think really that when you have children you have to make them your priority, it's an understanding that most adequate to good parents grasp naturally. I don't think Jake's parents gave Jake anywhere near "their best" though, Jake turned out a good kid despite of their lack of nurture, not because of anything they did.

jayson
12-29-2008, 07:11 AM
I agree Lisa. I don't think they did their best at all. Someone as successful as Elmer Chambers was clearly capable of a lot more effort. If he put in half the effort raising his son as he did working for his network things could have been different for Jake. From the little we know about Mrs. C, it seemed like family was far from a priority for her.

Ste Letto
02-21-2009, 04:38 PM
Pretty much everything has been said, but I feel like posting anyway.

Elmer Chambers, innately insecure and immature, attempting to develop status in order to compensate for low self esteem, therefore too preoccupied with Empire building to be a good father.

Laurie, innately insecure and immature, attempting to find comfort from (A) attachment to a powerful and successful man and (B) a string of love affairs.

They are flawed and needy, but then who isn't?

Does Jake miss them, yeah - sure, a little, but the world he enters is an adventure loving boys dream, a splendid distraction.

I have problems with him becoming a gunslinger, losing out on being a child but that's a separate issue.

Delah
09-08-2009, 10:12 AM
Has anyone seen/read The Nanny Diaries?

Yeah, its a chick flick, but its also a good look at family dynamics on the upper East Side. There's a little boy in there whose father is a driven workaholic and mother's a status seeking woman with no job but a dozen causes who's way too busy for her only son, so she pawns him off on nanny after nanny, and then, just when he gets attached to one, she fires them and the poor boy's alone again ...

So, yeah. Pretty much Jake's life, in a nutshell.

I think there's no getting around the fact that Jake's parents suck. Hard. They're neglectful, absent, preoccupied with everything except what should be the most important thing in their life -- their son. They're astoundingly selfish, which makes it all the more remarkable that Jake has the character he does.

I agree with Jean that it makes the separation easier for Jake -- no pining for his parents in Mid-World, since they were jerks. But they also go a way into shaping Jake's character. His dad expects intelligence (straight A's) and maturity and confidence. Self possession. Control. Jake displays a lot of these habits throughout the books. Through their neglect and expectations, they help make Jake a boy who could become a gunslinger.

Lack of attention by both parents means the boy's absolutely love-starved by the time he dies the first time ... which might play a role in his willingness to forgive the gunslinger for letting him die. After all, Jake has the Touch, and he knows Roland loves him.

Delacroix
11-17-2009, 03:32 PM
I don't feel sorry for his parents the tiniest bit. It's the contrary, he's gone for good, away from them. Of course they'll be sad, but because they have to. They'll be very sad because children matters are serious ones, that will be pretty it. Then time will slowly erase their tears, and the picture of this little blond guy will fade away until one day Elmer die of a a heart problem and her gets mother I-don't-know-what.
You know why? Because then there would be absolutly no way for them to realise what they inflicted to their son, and to realise they've been hurting him for years. They will never realise the terrible parents they were and the pathetic humans they are. Otherwise I think they'd want to die, well, I would.

Brice
11-17-2009, 03:34 PM
I don't think they'd have realized it either way. People like that tend to remain oblivious.

stone, rose, unfound door
11-19-2009, 03:35 PM
Did anyone ever think that maybe Jake wasn't meant to happen in their lives? Perhaps they saw him more like a random pregnancy than like their son to come. That may explain their behaviour towards their only son.

Letti
11-19-2009, 10:27 PM
Did anyone ever think that maybe Jake wasn't meant to happen in their lives? Perhaps they saw him more like a random pregnancy than like their son to come. That may explain their behaviour towards their only son.

For me there is no difference or more exactly it doesn't make any difference. If they planed it or not... I mean many times parents who plan to have a kid don't give a damn about their child later and parents who become parents accidentally spoil their kid. It depends on the personality of the parent.

Jean
11-20-2009, 12:26 AM
Did anyone ever think that maybe Jake wasn't meant to happen in their lives? Perhaps they saw him more like a random pregnancy than like their son to come. That may explain their behaviour towards their only son.
I think the other way, especially for father - he must have wanted to have an heir so hard that he totally disregarded the real boy, eclipsed by the Ideal Heir he had in his mind.

BROWNINGS CHILDE
11-20-2009, 02:21 AM
I think Jake was not on his destined level of the tower, and therefore dim.

Sickrose
11-20-2009, 02:33 AM
I think in their own way they loved him they just didnt prioritise him. It breaks my heart reading about lonely little bama when we first meet him.

All the gunslingers faced adversity and dealt with it like true gunslingers. If Jake's parents were different and more loving maybe he wouldnt have gone to Dutch Hill.

That said, I think Brownings Childe's point is really interesting. If he was dim that could explain why he was always so alone.

stone, rose, unfound door
11-23-2009, 03:53 PM
Did anyone ever think that maybe Jake wasn't meant to happen in their lives? Perhaps they saw him more like a random pregnancy than like their son to come. That may explain their behaviour towards their only son.
I think the other way, especially for father - he must have wanted to have an heir so hard that he totally disregarded the real boy, eclipsed by the Ideal Heir he had in his mind.

That does make some sense but then the father should have been there to raise him. He could very well have disregarded what Jake liked and what he hated so Jake's father could have tried to turn him into the heir he wanted to have. Or maybe the reason is a lot simpler and they're just both very selfish.

RolandLover
06-23-2011, 05:21 PM
I actually had a hard time believing Jake would just leave his home, his life, his parents even though they didn't pay any attention to him enough, but i don't think they were bad or evil either to go be with Roland who let him fall to his death. What did Jake gain by going to Roland's world? A father because Roland promised to not let that happen again? Well couldn't the same be said about his parents? Give them another chance to be better parents? He died in on the way to Tower, gottten beaten up in Lud, he lost a friend, and other stuff. He had the touch, had the love of Roland, Eddie, and Susannah but that was it.

Jean
06-24-2011, 12:21 AM
well, it looks to me like the love of Roland, Eddie and Susannah meant far more than anything he had, or expected to have, in his original life. I am not crazy about him hardly ever giving his parents another thought, either, but if we start calculating - ok, that's what he gained, but what exactly did he lose?

RolandLover
06-24-2011, 01:53 PM
well, it looks to me like the love of Roland, Eddie and Susannah meant far more than anything he had, or expected to have, in his original life. I am not crazy about him hardly ever giving his parents another thought, either, but if we start calculating - ok, that's what he gained, but what exactly did he lose?

I think the biggest thing Jake lost was growing up and living a life in his world. Yes he had the love of the ka tet but it ended in death. Roland, Eddie, and Susannah got a chance to live and fall in love, Jake didn't.

pixiedark76
06-24-2011, 02:28 PM
I don't feel sorry for Jake's parents at all. I really think that they hardly noticed he was gone. (Especially his father!) His father probably just went on drinking and doing drugs and working all the time!

This may sound old-fashioned and bias, but I blame Jake's mother more than his father. ( His mother was "always in bed with sick friends") As far as I know, Jake's mother did not work. She certainly did not need to work make ends meet. So why did they need to hire a nanny for Jake! Jake's mother was very self absorbed and unloving towards Jake. Why did poor Jake have to show his school papers to the housekeeper? WHERE WAS HIS MOTHER!
As a mother, I could not imagine treating my kids like this!

Again, this may sound old-fashioned but it is usually the women (mother) to be loving towards her children. I think that it is disgusting when a mother behaves the way Jake's mother did! When a women can't be loving towards her own children there is something seriously wrong!

pixiedark76
06-25-2011, 01:11 PM
I think that Jake was so much better off with Roland than staying with his parents. If he would have stayed with his parents, he most likely have grown up to just like his father. He would have led a very unhappy life.

Merlin1958
06-25-2011, 05:43 PM
I think that Jake was so much better off with Roland than staying with his parents. If he would have stayed with his parents, he most likely have grown up to just like his father. He would have led a very unhappy life.

Ditto

LadyHitchhiker
06-26-2011, 07:30 PM
Well Jake's parents aren't exactly Casey Anthony, but I still don't think they're great.

beam*seeker
02-15-2012, 03:30 PM
Both parents appeared to be immature assholes. The mother was simply ineffectual, apathetic and a complete failure as a mother. Sounds like she was neglectful of Jake, but pretty much checked out of life in general and on a self-destructive path. The father was immature in that he saw Jake as an extension of himself and cared about Jake as an object and how he reflected on his reputation, rather then what Jake really needed or wanted. They both sounded like people who were really too immature to be effective parents. At least the father tried to compensate by taking an interest, ragging on Jake when he thought he needed some discipline and paid for a housekeeper so that his physical needs could get met. Perhaps neither of them had good parental role models themselves. Either way, I don't feel sorry for them, but I don't feel they were monsters. Just negligent, self-absorbed a-holes that had no skills as parents. The back ground story of Jake does lend some veracity to the idea that negligence is actually more harmful than physical abuse.

mtdman
06-01-2012, 07:04 PM
Did anyone ever think that maybe Jake wasn't meant to happen in their lives? Perhaps they saw him more like a random pregnancy than like their son to come. That may explain their behaviour towards their only son.

Yep, they treat him like an accident. I'm sure his father loves the idea of Jake once he had him, but I bet having kids isn't a priority for him. Now that he has a son he treats him like a project to develop, not as a person.

Merlin1958
06-02-2012, 03:23 PM
Did anyone ever think that maybe Jake wasn't meant to happen in their lives? Perhaps they saw him more like a random pregnancy than like their son to come. That may explain their behaviour towards their only son.

Yep, they treat him like an accident. I'm sure his father loves the idea of Jake once he had him, but I bet having kids isn't a priority for him. Now that he has a son he treats him like a project to develop, not as a person.

Pretty good assessment, IMHO!!!!

Delah
06-06-2012, 01:09 PM
I think a big reason we don't get Jake thinking about his parents too much is because, from a reader's perspective, homesickness is something we associate with Eddie. It's Eddie more than anyone else who misses his brother and NY, and part of Eddie's character arc is dealing with that homesickness. If Jake goes back to Mid-World but is homesick and missing his mother (like virtually any normal eleven year old would be) that would seem pretty repetitive. And a lot more difficult to resolve. Eddie getting out from Henry's shadow and accepting Mid-World is his home now is a good thing. But there's nothing wrong with an eleven year old boy missing his mother and there's no real way to resolve it.

As for Jake's parents, I think its convenient, somewhat, for the reader (and the writer) that they're so neglectful, so uninterested in their child that he pretty much can't wait to get the hell away from them and return to Mid-World, and Roland. Imagine if Jake had come from a happy family. Even if the paradox had been created and Jake was forced to return to Mid-World to save his sanity, do you really think he would have forgiven Roland so quickly and taken his place in the ka-tet with so little friction if he knew he had a loving, caring family at home in NY, wondering and waiting about their beloved son? If you were eleven years old, would you really want to trade your home and a good family for a strange world with guys like Gasher and psychotic trains and a gunslinger who let you die? So its very convenient that his parents are so neglectful -- so uninterested in their son that Jake's parents are basically a non issue.

I also think the Touch plays a big role here for Jake -- Jake is fully aware of how little his parents actually care about him, how they view him as an investment, and not a person. Conversely, he knows that Roland loves him (even though he also let him die) and later on, that Eddie and Susannah do to. Jake's parents made him who he was, through their neglect, and the people they chose to raise their son -- they're the reason he acts far older than his years, that he's quiet and thoughtful and controlled and so desperately lonely.

Brice
06-10-2012, 08:53 PM
The truth is Eddie, Susannah, nor Jake have anything of value awaiting them in their own New Yorks. If they did it would cause problems.

Delah
06-11-2012, 05:16 PM
I woudn't say that they have nothing. Susannah, especially, has quite a lot of worthwhile things in her life in NY -- she has her friends, Papa Mose who is like a second father to her, money and a cause to fight for. Of course, she also has schizophrenia in NY.

Eddie actually has the least amount of close, personal ties to NY after Henry dies, which is ironic b/c he's the most homesick one of them all. I just find it somewhat convenient that Jake's parents are so bad that they're so easily dismissed from the equation. Of course, I also found it a little too convenient how quickly Eddie and Odetta fell in love, but that's another thread.

SolomonsGal
04-19-2016, 05:28 PM
They reminded me of all the rich parents I nannied for in college! But in the end parents like them were necessary for Jake to develop into the free thinking, independent, witty kid that he is!!