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Wuducynn
10-21-2008, 07:15 AM
What do you folk think? Vegetarians where do you stand? Are you hard-core vegan or lacto-ovo or whatever it's called? Non-vegetarians, omnivores etc. where do you come out? Bring it on.

jayson
10-21-2008, 07:46 AM
Excellent thread Matthew.

Currently I am an omnivore. As I've gotten older I have begun to limit the amount of red meat in my diet for health reasons, but I have yet to eliminate it entirely (though I am now down to one serving of red meat a week, sometimes every two weeks). I would like to gradually move to a completely vegetarian diet, but it is a slow and steady process of adjustment and devising a menu that is nutritionally appropriate. My closest friend has been a vegetarian for about eight years now and he has compiled some excellent recipes. He also happens to be the best cook that I know. When we have dinner at his house it never even occurs to me that there is no meat in the food because it's so damn good.

My reasoning for wanting to shift my personal diet is based on health and environmental concerns, not religious or ethical ones. I don't think killing an animal for food is "wrong" (at least no more so than killing a plant to eat it) but I have many concerns about the detrimental environmental impact of much of the meat-producing industry. Hunting and killing one's own food is perfectly acceptable to me.

MrQuint
10-21-2008, 07:46 AM
I eat meat - but I just had 3 slices of Vegetarian bacon for lunch (I call them facon) ... There's a party in my tummy ... so yummy.

Somewhere there's a pig out there that owes me one.

Jon
10-21-2008, 08:31 AM
I live on a steady diet of Jim Beam and acid.

lophophoras
10-21-2008, 08:55 AM
I have been a vegetarian for a little over five years.

After I had back surgery my weight, blood pressure, cholesterol were all out of wack so after careful research and talking with my doctor I made the change.

I do eat eggs, cheese, dairy in moderation, but I completely avoid meat, poultry, fish.

It's not so bad. There are a wide range of vegetarian dishes and products out there that are great meat substitutes.

I have to admit though, I do have pretty intense cravings for some fried chicken every once in a while. lol... :orely:

Frunobulax
10-21-2008, 09:40 AM
I recently stopped a bout of lacto-ovo vegetarianism after six plus years. This still involves me limiting my intake of red meat, and I usually end up still choosing vegetarian meals at home and on the go (it ends up be cheaper and better for me). The choice to become vegetarian was not based on morals, but rather on the fact that it was a smooth transition since my diet was damn near vegetarian already. And the choice to stop was because it was seamless again (it also involved two sprained ankles and paella).

Wuducynn
10-21-2008, 09:54 AM
Anyone become a vegetarian for moral reasons? Any vegans on here?

Girlystevedave
10-21-2008, 10:04 AM
I gave up eating meat for a couple of years, mainly because the whole factory farming industry really gets to me. I also wanted to sort of 'test' myself and see if it was something I could do. I can honestly say that I really did not miss meat as much as I thought I would. I really missed the convenience of it more than anything. It wasn't as easy to find things on a fast food restaurant menu, but I sort of saw that as a good thing, because It meant that I was eating 'healthier' than before. Another plus side was that I no longer had to worry about what I was eating. I've always been one of those finicky eaters that has to inspect my food as I take bites. Going without meat, I never had to worry about getting grossed out by biting into grissle/bone/fat/God knows what else as I was eating. :lol:
I did start eating meat after getting pregnant, but have thought about giving it up again after the pregnancy. I've found that, even now, I catch myself eating strictly vegetarian meals anyway.

I will say this though: Even when I stopped eating meat, most 'Vegetarians' drove me crazy when they would try to lecture people about eating meat. (Especially when the 'Vegetarians' would eat chicken. I mean WTF!? ) I don't want anyone teling me what I should and shouldn't eat, so I'm not gonna try to force my opinion on someone else.

Edit: I still buy the veggie 'chicken' patties just because those things are delicious. :drool:

Odetta
10-21-2008, 11:03 AM
mmm... lamb...
wittle baby lambies!
:drool:

Daghain
10-21-2008, 11:12 AM
I'm a carnivore.

I don't care what anyone else eats, but if one more Vegan comes up to me and tries to lecture me about how I'm killing an innocent soul they are going to get a pork rib right up the nose. :lol:

Odetta
10-21-2008, 11:14 AM
:lol:

wizardsrainbow
10-21-2008, 11:21 AM
I have been a vegetarian for a little over five years.

After I had back surgery my weight, blood pressure, cholesterol were all out of wack so after careful research and talking with my doctor I made the change.

I do eat eggs, cheese, dairy in moderation, but I completely avoid meat, poultry, fish.

It's not so bad. There are a wide range of vegetarian dishes and products out there that are great meat substitutes.

I have to admit though, I do have pretty intense cravings for some fried chicken every once in a while. lol... :orely:

Similar situation. I have been veggie for nearly 15 years now after being a meat, potato,canned vegetable & fruit guy growing up at home. I did it to get more healthy and to avoid all of the "chemicals" and growth hormones that get pumped into meat. Not only is my family veggie (statred with my wife almost 20 years ago), but we belong to a food co-op and order our food (almost exclusively organic) once a month. My 3 kids, 15, 12 and 7 have never had meat in their life. I can tell you that personally, I used to get colds at least 3 times a year that would always last 2 weeks each, but I may get one cold now every 2 years.

Matt
10-21-2008, 11:24 AM
I'm a meat eater but I bet Dora could be a veggie if she didn't live with me. :lol:

tamez
10-21-2008, 12:02 PM
mmm... lamb...
wittle baby lambies!
:drool:

I thought this was a Jon post before i looked ;) ;)

i don't eat meat
mostly for moral reasons...
however i do eat dairy and wear leather..
whatareyougonnadoaboutit? :P

lophophoras
10-21-2008, 12:04 PM
I gave up eating meat for a couple of years, mainly because the whole factory farming industry really gets to me. I also wanted to sort of 'test' myself and see if it was something I could do. I can honestly say that I really did not miss meat as much as I thought I would. I really missed the convenience of it more than anything. It wasn't as easy to find things on a fast food restaurant menu, but I sort of saw that as a good thing, because It meant that I was eating 'healthier' than before. Another plus side was that I no longer had to worry about what I was eating. I've always been one of those finicky eaters that has to inspect my food as I take bites. Going without meat, I never had to worry about getting grossed out by biting into grissle/bone/fat/God knows what else as I was eating. :lol:
I did start eating meat after getting pregnant, but have thought about giving it up again after the pregnancy. I've found that, even now, I catch myself eating strictly vegetarian meals anyway.

I will say this though: Even when I stopped eating meat, most 'Vegetarians' drove me crazy when they would try to lecture people about eating meat. (Especially when the 'Vegetarians' would eat chicken. I mean WTF!? ) I don't want anyone teling me what I should and shouldn't eat, so I'm not gonna try to force my opinion on someone else.

Edit: I still buy the veggie 'chicken' patties just because those things are delicious. :drool:


The veggie buffalo wings are good too! Dip them in some bbq sauce or ranch dressing.

Yum!

Darkthoughts
10-21-2008, 12:06 PM
I don't think killing an animal for food is "wrong" (at least no more so than killing a plant to eat it) but I have many concerns about the detrimental environmental impact of much of the meat-producing industry. Hunting and killing one's own food is perfectly acceptable to me.
Agreed 100%.
I don't eat much meat. Mostly because I went off it with my second pregnancy (not sure why, it was like an anti-craving) and never really got back into it. I can never say no to a good quality, local farm raised piece of steak though, or a free range (corn fed if I'm particularly solvent that month) roast chicken. I'm much more into fish than most meat.

I think if good quality meat was cheaper, I'd probably eat it more often.


... There's a party in my tummy ... so yummy.
Quint, did you just quote Yo Gabba Gabba?! :lol:

Woofer
10-21-2008, 01:10 PM
I'm a carnivore.

I don't care what anyone else eats, but if one more Vegan comes up to me and tries to lecture me about how I'm killing an innocent soul they are going to get a pork rib right up the nose. :lol:

You only eat meat?

*ducks and wags tail*

Rjeso
10-21-2008, 01:30 PM
I am an omnivore. I believe that our bodies were made to process both vegetable and animal products for a reason. I know there's always the 'animals feel pain' argument, but my aunt, who is brilliant, once did a study on plants and their ability to feel pain. Did you know that trees can recognize a person who has pulled a branch or needles/leaves off of it before? She proved it with EKG electrodes. She had a person pull needles off of an evergreen tree, then had a group of people walk in and out of the tree's general area. There was no EKG activity when random people walked by the tree, but whenever that one person come near, there was a marked increase in EKG activity every time. That same person could walk by a tree that they never touched before and cause no reaction whatsoever. She performed this and similar tests several times, of course, so I believe the data is valid. So, if your argument for vegetarianism is feeling better about not causing a living thing pain, it's no good.

I'm not against vegetarians at all. in fact, I enjoy eating at vegetarian/vegan restaurants. I have several friends who are vegetarians. I don't believe it's a good idea to cut anything out of a diet entirely. Cutting down on certain things is good, and is definitely something I need to do myself, but the idea of completely eliminating meat or carbs or fats or sugars makes no sense to me.

CPU
10-21-2008, 01:32 PM
My wife and I have been vegetarians (98%?) for the last 5 or 6 years. For me it was primarily for health reasons, although I've always had concerns about the treatment of animals (food and non-food variaties) for a long time. We do eat eggs and dairy, although I've been curtailing a lot of that recently as well. I'm a fat vegetarian :), but thanks to Nutrisystem's vegetarian program I'm losing weight by cutting out all the bad (bad, bad, bad) carbs I was eating.

I don't really mind if other people eat meat (or hunt), but I wish more people gave a little thought to where it comes from. /soapbox :P

Arthur Heath
10-21-2008, 01:37 PM
I saw the greatest shirt not too long ago:

PETA - People For The Eating Of Tasty Animals.

Awesome.

Everyone has a right to eat how/what/when they want (as an adult I believe). I know many vegetarians that keep their practice to themselves. I get invited to eat at vegetarians houses and I gladly go and have a wonderful meal. Me, Im a steak and potatoes kinda guy. Give me meat or give me death.

Daghain
10-21-2008, 01:56 PM
I'm a carnivore.

I don't care what anyone else eats, but if one more Vegan comes up to me and tries to lecture me about how I'm killing an innocent soul they are going to get a pork rib right up the nose. :lol:

You only eat meat?

*ducks and wags tail*

Pretty much. I'm trying to get back on the Atkins diet, because I felt better and was a lot skinnier. Now that Vegas is over I have no excuses. :lol:

Sam
10-21-2008, 02:01 PM
I'm with Daggers. Full on CARNIVORE!!! Every now and then I'll eat a salad, and I try to include peas, corn, or some sort of vegetable in most meals. Even so, I have meat in virtually every meal I eat, including breakfast. Most meals consist of MOSTLY meat, including breakfast. Potatoes go along well with steak, chicken, and pork. I don't eat any seafood due to an iodine allergy.

I have all sorts of marinades and glazes for porkchops, steaks, and chickens. I also enjoy a good stir fry with noodles or rice. Chicken and Dumplins works out very well when made in the crock pot (slow cooker). Oh, and I make a mean chili too.:harrier:

Daggs, pm me if you're interested in some glazes. (I use a lot of soy and teriyaki sauces).

Woofer
10-21-2008, 02:02 PM
Cool! I've been thinking of trying that since wolves love meat - the rarer the better.

Woofer
10-21-2008, 02:05 PM
I'm with Daggers. Full on CARNIVORE!!!

Heh heh. I couldn't help myself - especially given those fast food commercials with the young guy claiming he's a carnivore and then biting into a burger with lettuce and tomato and, of course, BREAD. No, dude, sorry; YOU ARE AN OMNIVORE.

At any rate, I do understand.

<---physically restrains self from eating the meat before it's cooked

Sam
10-21-2008, 02:13 PM
Actually, you are correct in the sense that I eat more than meat. However, I have been known to throw out the bun, lettuce, and all that junk just to get to the meat and cheese. Often. Almost no animal eats JUST meat.

Woofer
10-21-2008, 02:29 PM
*nods vigorously* Totally understand. I have done the same, especially when they put the inferior lettuce and tomato on the burger or place the greasy meat straight on the bread so that the bun disintegrates into an oily bleached-wheat paste.

Harrald
10-21-2008, 03:01 PM
I didn't eat red meat for almost 2 years. I ate chicken and fish but didn't want any red meat.


After the two years I realized that I really wanted a hamburger! I haven't turned back since. Now I only have red meat 2-3 times a week max. I mostly eat chicken.

We've never gone all out and stopped eating all meat, although my wife still talks about it. It would be nice to try for a while and see how it goes. The only problem I can see is that we need to learn a whole lot of new recipes. And I still love hamburgers!

LadyHitchhiker
10-21-2008, 03:17 PM
I felt a lot better on Atkins up until the end where I was just getting bored of everything I ate and I fell apart going to Georgia eating homegrown Southern food for a whole week (including, *gasps* deserts like Red Velvet Cake and Grandma cake).

Actually, it is better for me to be on an Atkinsish diet because of my hypoglycemia. Lots of meat, little carbs, sprinkled with some lettuce.

And unfortunately I also believe the whole plants feeling pain thing... therefore I am morally obligated to ignore both tidbits about animal or plant suffering and eat whatever because otherwise I shall starve...

Unless maybe I just live off milk and cheese, but then poor cows are milked for that too... *sighs* Maybe I could eat rocks.... :D

Matt
10-21-2008, 03:43 PM
I'd eat any one of you...and I really mean that. :grouphug:

Sam
10-21-2008, 03:47 PM
Sorry Liz, you're stuck. Then again you could adopt an idea that a New Yorker friend of mine had. Until he moved down to South Carolina and saw a Farmer's Market he thought vegetables just came from the store.:wtf:

Sam
10-21-2008, 03:50 PM
I'd eat any one of you...and I really mean that. :grouphug:

'Fraid I can't hang with you on that one Matt. I'd have to eliminate the male tdt population from that statement. Having said that, I think I'll just quietly step out of the room now. PM for further details.:evil:

The Lady of Shadows
10-21-2008, 03:51 PM
i said this in the other thread but i'll say it again here. if you're going to eat something with a face, make it something with an ugly face! :D

i don't eat red meat for medical reasons. it makes my stomach bleed. the thing is, i can't even eat those turkey burgers or fake burgers or things like that. they make me sick as hell. it's like my body thinks they are red meat. weird, i know.

i eat chicken very rarely (last night i ate half a chicken nugget at ruby tuesday's - it was tasty) because normally i don't care for the texture of the chicken that most places serve.

i eat turkey rarely (we call it white meaty stuff at our house - inside joke).

i eat lots of dairy products; the majority of my "protein" comes from those sources: eggs, yogurt, cheeses.

my husband doesn't really eat red meat either. he'll eat a burger if we're at a restaurant and he can order it exactly how he wants it cooked. but he mostly sticks with turkey or chicken at home. maybe that's because of me but i think it's just how he's changed his plan of eating over the years.

for the record, i love peas :wub: but they are a carb not a vegetable. :D

LadyHitchhiker
10-21-2008, 03:59 PM
:rofl: Sam... you wiseacre...

Daghain
10-21-2008, 06:27 PM
I'd eat any one of you...and I really mean that. :grouphug:

I find this disturbing and absolutely no surprise at the same time. :lol:

The Lady of Shadows
10-21-2008, 06:39 PM
I'd eat any one of you...and I really mean that. :grouphug:

I find this disturbing and absolutely no surprise at the same time. :lol:


why do you think he REALLY started this site? out of love and dedication? :nope: he needed a ready food source. he was just sizing you all up at the vegas gathering. :lol:
on second thought, :scared:

Wuducynn
10-21-2008, 07:17 PM
I'm a humanitarian.

Daghain
10-21-2008, 09:25 PM
So, you eat humans? Do you prefer ketchup or BBQ sauce?

Wuducynn
10-22-2008, 05:56 AM
So, you eat humans? Do you prefer ketchup or BBQ sauce?

ONLY eat humans. It's my sole diet. BBQ sauce of course, but not just any bbq sauce it's gotta be - http://www.todaysbackyard.com/Todays%20Backyard%20Images/Stubbs_Spicy_Sauce.jpg

The Lady of Shadows
10-22-2008, 07:42 AM
so, matt & matthew. in on it together. i suspected as much! :lol:

i knew it. the whole site is a ruse. it's a ruse i say! :panic:

IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!!!!

Jean
10-22-2008, 07:49 AM
to AllHail, everything must read like a cookbook... how sad, really... think of it - if we had to read only books where the only characters were shrimp cocktails and barbecued ribs and potato chips...

jayson
10-22-2008, 07:53 AM
Matthew's favorite movie is Soylent Green

Wuducynn
10-22-2008, 07:56 AM
Honestly though, I'm an omnivore, although I do have strong feelings against how animals are treated in the meat industry. I think PETA is a whack-job group that does more harm than good in helping animals though.
There is a big market for humanely treated animals and I don't mind paying for meat that comes from an animal that I could know from a certification process given by a private certification agency that says that the animal was treated well.

The Lady of Shadows
10-22-2008, 08:29 AM
Honestly though, I'm an omnivore, although I do have strong feelings against how animals are treated in the meat industry. I think PETA is a whack-job group that does more harm than good in helping animals though.
There is a big market for humanely treated animals and I don't mind paying for meat that comes from an animal that I could know from a certification process given by a private certification agency that says that the animal was treated well.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Jean
10-22-2008, 08:36 AM
I agree, too... I eat meat very seldom, for financial reasons, but I would eat it half as often, and pay twice as much (or whatever it takes) if I knew that those whom I eat were able to reach their ultimate destination with dignity.

Daghain
10-22-2008, 09:49 AM
I don't know. I mean, I am against the mistreatment of animals, but seriously, every time I see "free range chicken" or some such in the stores, I wonder why the hell you would want to kill the chicken that was having a good life, running free around the barnyard? Wouldn't you rather kill the chicken for whom death would be welcome?

I know. I have weird thoughts.

Jean
10-22-2008, 10:01 AM
I don't know. I mean, I am against the mistreatment of animals, but seriously, every time I see "free range chicken" or some such in the stores, I wonder why the hell you would want to kill the chicken that was having a good life, running free around the barnyard? Wouldn't you rather kill the chicken for whom death would be welcome?

I know. I have weird thoughts.
I am sure that it is better to have a short happy life than to have a short miserable life, be you a human, a bear or a chicken. Also, it is better to have a short happy life than to have none at all (I mean, if those chickens were not eaten, nobody would breed them; at leas not in such quantities). On the contrary: making animals live a miserable life only to be able to put them out of their misery with a light heart does seem somehow perverted. (likewise, making people live hard lives so they are not afraid to die. It has always been used in certain sects (like assassins), but I would never subscribe to that... whether we speak of people, bears, or chickens)

Daghain
10-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Well, I guess if more people actually bought the free range chickens, more chickens would get to run around the barnyard. Problem around here is, you slap a label like "free range" or "organic" on something and suddenly it costs twice as much as the alternative.

Wuducynn
10-22-2008, 10:42 AM
Well, I guess if more people actually bought the free range chickens, more chickens would get to run around the barnyard. Problem around here is, you slap a label like "free range" or "organic" on something and suddenly it costs twice as much as the alternative.

That tends to be because you have one "Organic Association" or whatever its called. I'm talking about a variety of competeing organizations. Forget "organic" what the hell does that mean anyway? I'm just talking about groups that meat producers would want to make sure to have their certificate on their meat products so that folk like me would look for that certificate and say to themselves "Oh it's got so and so's certificate so this meat was taken from animal that wasn't tortured or otherwise abused".
Eventually so many meat producers would want to hop on the bandwagon that you wouldn't have any leap in price because of this certification.

wizardsrainbow
10-22-2008, 11:17 AM
I'd eat any one of you...and I really mean that. :grouphug:

I find this disturbing and absolutely no surprise at the same time. :lol:


why do you think he REALLY started this site? out of love and dedication? :nope: he needed a ready food source. he was just sizing you all up at the vegas gathering. :lol:
on second thought, :scared:

I was there in Vegas, and indeed, Matt likes to eat. BTW, has anyone heard from Dora? Dora! Somebody run and check to see that Dora has not been consumed by Matt! :panic:

Matt
10-22-2008, 11:18 AM
The obvious joke here is that she was indeed eaten in Vegas and otherwise. :lol:

She's actually home sick today so she's around. And you are right David, I was really hungry in Vegas for some reason

Rjeso
10-22-2008, 11:19 AM
Honestly though, I'm an omnivore, although I do have strong feelings against how animals are treated in the meat industry. I think PETA is a whack-job group that does more harm than good in helping animals though.
There is a big market for humanely treated animals and I don't mind paying for meat that comes from an animal that I could know from a certification process given by a private certification agency that says that the animal was treated well.

Amen to that.

Darkthoughts
10-23-2008, 02:16 AM
I agree with the PETA comment too. It reminds me of something Terry Pratchett once wrote, which was along the lines of...why do these animal rights groups always target frail old ladies in fur coats? Funny how you never see them chucking red paint over some big hairy biker for wearing a leather jacket!

:D

MonteGss
10-23-2008, 02:36 AM
Meat is good. I love eating meat and I pretty much fall in line with Laura and Daggers on the subject. I pretty much want to punch people if they try to lecture me on the "evils of meat."

Ok, I'll be evil but I'm still going to enjoy this prime rib.

Wuducynn
10-23-2008, 05:43 AM
I want to punch folk who lecture me about anything.

jayson
10-23-2008, 05:48 AM
Does this really happen to you guys that often? I've never been lectured by any vegetarian about eating meat. I've had discussions with some about the subject, but only in a conversational manner, never an unsolicited lecture. Maybe I'm just lucky. :orely:

Wuducynn
10-23-2008, 05:52 AM
Does this really happen to you guys that often? I've never been lectured by any vegetarian about eating meat. I've had discussions with some about the subject, but only in a conversational manner, never an unsolicited lecture. Maybe I'm just lucky. :orely:

I guess you didn't grow up in an ultra-leftwing, granola crunchy town like I did. Yeah I have gotten lectured by vegans particularly. I've had some interesting debates with them, knowing full well that I wasn't going to change their mind about anything but just debating for the fun of it.
Vegans in particular remind me of some hard-core born again Christians in treating their dietary choice like a religion.

Odetta
10-23-2008, 06:04 AM
I think that some DO think of it like a religion... fortunately, most veggies I know just don't eat meat and don't really care if people around them do!

Wuducynn
10-23-2008, 06:07 AM
most veggies I know just don't eat meat and don't really care if people around them do!


Yeah, same here, thankfully. One thing I can't stand about someone is preachyness. Doesn't matter what subject it is.

sarah
10-23-2008, 07:54 AM
I swing both ways :D

Mostly in the summer and hot weather we are Veggie around the house. When i'm out and about I'll order meat. It is just too hot here to have the oven or stove on all time time so I mostly cook veggie at home. We end up using the BBQ outside about once or twice a week too cook chicken or hamburger or turkey. We hardly ever eat steak unless we get crazy and buy some from Costco.

Wuducynn
10-23-2008, 08:45 AM
I swing both ways :D
Tell us something we don't know. Not that there is anything wrong with that.




Mostly in the summer and hot weather we are Veggie around the house. When i'm out and about I'll order meat. It is just too hot here to have the oven or stove on all time time so I mostly cook veggie at home. We end up using the BBQ outside about once or twice a week too cook chicken or hamburger or turkey. We hardly ever eat steak unless we get crazy and buy some from Costco.

Is the morality or lack thereof, of how the animals are treated ever an issue for you?

jhanic
10-23-2008, 10:08 AM
This reminds me of the old joke:

Do you know the Native American translation of vegetarian?







"Bad Hunter"

:)

John

Daghain
10-23-2008, 10:08 AM
Does this really happen to you guys that often? I've never been lectured by any vegetarian about eating meat. I've had discussions with some about the subject, but only in a conversational manner, never an unsolicited lecture. Maybe I'm just lucky. :orely:

I guess you didn't grow up in an ultra-leftwing, granola crunchy town like I did. Yeah I have gotten lectured by vegans particularly. I've had some interesting debates with them, knowing full well that I wasn't going to change their mind about anything but just debating for the fun of it.
Vegans in particular remind me of some hard-core born again Christians in treating their dietary choice like a religion.

There are some damn crunchy granola people around here, especially in Boulder. :lol:

I haven't gotten "the lecture" in a long time, but believe me the next time it happens I'm going to make sure I have a steak in front of me. :lol:

And CK is right - some Vegans are way too preachy on the subject.

Wuducynn
10-23-2008, 10:33 AM
This reminds me of the old joke:

Do you know the Native American translation of vegetarian?







"Bad Hunter"

:)

John

Awesome... :thumbsup:



I haven't gotten "the lecture" in a long time, but believe me the next time it happens I'm going to make sure I have a steak in front of me. :lol:


You're just sitting there at a local coffee house and this chic in dreadlocks with a Che Guevara t-shirt on, ripped jeans, and 40 nose piercings starts telling you how you're a bad person for even wearing leather let alone eating meat and thats when you whip out a giant steak and don't even say a word just start scarfing it down with the bloody juices pouring down your face and just nodding wide-eyed to everything she's saying.

Daghain
10-23-2008, 10:41 AM
Yes, that's exactly it. The only thing you missed is the jewelry made of beads and braided string. :lol:

The Lady of Shadows
10-24-2008, 07:48 AM
i have now seen everything. i can't wait to hear what you guys think.


A California Ballot Measure Offers Rights for Farm Animals (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/us/24egg.html?partner=permalink&exprod=permalink)

Jean
10-24-2008, 07:53 AM
The idea of animal rights was preposterous from the very start. It's not that animals have any rights, it's that we humans have obligations, and a duty to take care of those whom we made to depend on us.

Daghain
10-24-2008, 08:02 AM
:clap:

Hear, hear!

Wuducynn
10-24-2008, 10:44 AM
Exactly Jean. Rights are a function within human society for humans. We have moral obligations towards the animals that we care for and I think that includes use for food.

Sam
10-24-2008, 01:24 PM
I disagree with you a little. Rights are not a function of society but rather a gift of the government, whatever the form it takes, and they are taken back by the government. If you disagree with a governments ability to take away your rights, you are very likely going to be using force to enforce your rights.

The last time an animal took issue with my ability to infringe upon its rights, I got bit by a dog. Incidentally, the dog subsequently had to be treated for rabies after I bit it back. :dance:

Wuducynn
10-24-2008, 05:23 PM
I disagree with you a little. Rights are not a function of society but rather a gift of the government, whatever the form it takes, and they are taken back by the government. If you disagree with a governments ability to take away your rights, you are very likely going to be using force to enforce your rights.


If they're a gift of the government their not rights, but privileges.

Sam
10-24-2008, 05:37 PM
Bingo.

Wuducynn
10-24-2008, 09:58 PM
Bingo.

Bingo? You said rights are gifts from the government, and I pointed out that if they're gifts from the government they're not rights, they're privileges. So what are you disagreeing with? Seems like you just contradicted yourself.

Jean
10-25-2008, 12:17 AM
I disagree with you a little. Rights are not a function of society but rather a gift of the government, whatever the form it takes, and they are taken back by the government. If you disagree with a governments ability to take away your rights, you are very likely going to be using force to enforce your rights.
boldened by me - That's why I would disagree that they are "granted". They are formed as a need inside a social group, then they are worded, then voiced, then claimed. If the right in question is something this particular society is mature enough to support, the government has to meet the demand, lest it suffer drastic changes itself (whether by force or by reform is immaterial). It is nobody's gift, and thus they can be "taken back" only for a very short time, by a suicidal administration (imagine, for example, a government that "takes back" women's right to vote).

The Lady of Shadows
10-25-2008, 10:22 AM
I disagree with you a little. Rights are not a function of society but rather a gift of the government, whatever the form it takes, and they are taken back by the government. If you disagree with a governments ability to take away your rights, you are very likely going to be using force to enforce your rights.
boldened by me - That's why I would disagree that they are "granted". They are formed as a need inside a social group, then they are worded, then voiced, then claimed. If the right in question is something this particular society is mature enough to support, the government has to meet the demand, lest it suffer drastic changes itself (whether by force or by reform is immaterial). It is nobody's gift, and thus they can be "taken back" only for a very short time, by a suicidal administration (imagine, for example, a government that "takes back" women's right to vote).

or women's right to choose (and yes i am raising the ugly of abortion but only to further illustrate the bear's point - let's not go off on a tangent about abortion in this thread please).

Sam
10-25-2008, 03:18 PM
A debate on rights and the existence thereof would go on forever. Perhaps we could start a thread on that by itself? At any rate, my assertion is simply that the idea of rights is an excellent idea when it is put into practice properly and to administered to law abiding citizens. Just calling them rights gives a citizen a sense of empowerment. Remember though that different governments give their citizens different rights. Some countries don't give their citizens the right to own firearms of any sort, others give their citizens the right to vote for their government representatives, and yet others do not allow their citizens the ability to say anything against the government or the government leaders. I don't have an issue with calling them rights, but my assertion is that they are granted by the government be it a good government or a bad one. I for one enjoy the rights I have been given as an American citizen, but I have always thought there is a better form of government available. Now if I can just figure out how to put myself in charge...

Wuducynn
10-25-2008, 03:32 PM
A debate on rights and the existence thereof would go on forever. Perhaps we could start a thread on that by itself? At any rate, my assertion is simply that the idea of rights is an excellent idea when it is put into practice properly and to administered to law abiding citizens. Just calling them rights gives a citizen a sense of empowerment. Remember though that different governments give their citizens different rights. Some countries don't give their citizens the right to own firearms of any sort, others give their citizens the right to vote for their government representatives, and yet others do not allow their citizens the ability to say anything against the government or the government leaders. I don't have an issue with calling them rights, but my assertion is that they are granted by the government be it a good government or a bad one. I for one enjoy the rights I have been given as an American citizen, but I have always thought there is a better form of government available. Now if I can just figure out how to put myself in charge...

And what I'm asserting is that what you keep calling "rights" aren't rights at all but privileges. Rights are unalienable.

Definition of "unalienable" Not to be separated, given away, or taken away; inalienable: "All of them . . . claim unalienable dignity as individuals" (Garrison Keillor).


We are born with certain rights. Rights that are unalienable. They're listed in the Bill of Rights. Government doesn't give them to us because some folk wrote them down, they were acknowledging that we have them no matter what.

Ka-mai
10-25-2008, 03:37 PM
Problem around here is, you slap a label like "free range" or "organic" on something and suddenly it costs twice as much as the alternative.

Not if you know the farmer. :P A guy from our church always offers my dad a free-range turkey for Thanksgiving. I'm not sure if it's a gift or if he charges, but if he does it's not a lot.

Also, farmer's markets are amazing. You can get a head of lettuce for like, 75 cents. Only in the summer, though.

I love meat. I love chicken and pork chops and beef. I'm also slightly anemic and sometimes the only thing that makes me feel better is a nice steak, so the vegetarian thing might not work out. I think being vegetarian is a cool thing, but I doubt I could pull it off. Maybe when I get older and my blood pressure shoots through the roof I'll give it a try. :P

Wuducynn
10-25-2008, 03:41 PM
pork chops


Mmmmmmmm. I love pork chops, I love a spiral cut ham even more. And bacon...mmmmmmmm.

Sam
10-25-2008, 04:17 PM
No "right" is inalienable. Just ask the American citizens who were rounded up and placed into camps because they were of asian decent. Just ask those who are incarcerated about their "right" to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The rights that you have as an American citizen are guaranteed by the Constitution. They can also be legally taken away by an amendment to the Constitution that has been ratifed. So, if the government can giveth and can taketh away, are they "rights"?

Mmmm...bacon:excited:

Wuducynn
10-25-2008, 08:36 PM
You can have your rights infringed upon but they are still yours. I have a right to keep and bear arms, but that right is infringed upon by the government. I still have it though and said right isn't given to me by the government, I'm born with it.

LadyHitchhiker
10-26-2008, 04:27 AM
To quote Charlton Heston (may he rest in peace and may I have spelled his name right):
Soylent Green is PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!

Sam
10-26-2008, 07:10 AM
I submit to you that if the second amendment is repealed and such repeal is upheld by the Supreme Court then you no longer have the right to bear arms. I love my guns as much as the next country boy and won't give them up to anyone, but if guns were ever outlawed then I would be an outlaw. Rights are not inalienable, and they are not granted to you by God. They are granted to you by men and by governments, and sometimes blood has to be shed to protect those rights. Just remember you may have been born with the right to own a firearm, but that's just because you were born an American, in America. Had you been born in Japan, you wouldn't have that right.

Infringement of a right comes when the government, or a representative of said government, ILLEGALLY acts against the rights given to you by the laws of the nation, state, or municipality. If those rights are legally retracted, there has been no infringement. For example, you have the right of liberty. That means that no one can take you and hold you against your will. That is your right and anyone who holds you against your will faces criminal and civil repercussions. However, if you break the law, the government can clap you in irons and throw you into a cell. Where is your right of liberty now? It has been taken by the government, legally. If you want to prevent the govenrment from taking that right from you, you have to fight. Then they shoot you and take your right to life. Guess now you wish you had brought them a batch of Krispy Kremes now huh.

Wuducynn
10-26-2008, 08:04 AM
I submit to you that if the second amendment is repealed and such repeal is upheld by the Supreme Court then you no longer have the right to bear arms.

Just because a right is infringed does not mean it doesn't exist. I would keep and bear arms whether with permission or not from the government. I'm still exercising my rights. Suddenly because a group of assholes in robes say I can't keep and bear arms doesn't mean I won't.

Wuducynn
10-26-2008, 08:10 AM
So, Sam. Bringing this back to vegetarianism specifically. Do you buy these claims of superiority of health by vegetarians? This goes out to everyone else who is an omnivore like myself.

The Lady of Shadows
10-26-2008, 10:23 AM
well, speaking as a vegetarian i can tell you that i frequently am depleted of potassium and need to have it replenished by medical means (i.e. pills or iv). i have been radically low on iron mulitple times which resulted in treatment. also, i am frequently critically low on b-12 and need shots/pills until it stabilizes.

now the iron could have been a result of other things going on with my blood but not the potassium. i get plenty of dairy products (prime source of protein) so you tell me.

is all this the result of my lack of red meat? or other things? :unsure:




ETA: if you haven't had potassium through an iv don't. it burns like a motherfucker and you feel like you're having a heart attack. make them give you the pills even though they are giant and begin to dissolve the second you put them in your mouth. just some friendly advice. :D

Sam
10-26-2008, 10:45 AM
Many of the vegans I know are healthier than I am, but I eat too much meat. Too much of anything is not good for the body. I have known no vegans who were overweight because they ate too many veggies. I have known one or two whose bones were brittle because of calcium deficiencies. In contrast, I have been drinking milk by the gallon most of my life and my bones are very dense. (Martial arts training since I was 13 probably has something to do with that too.)

Ka-mai
10-26-2008, 08:46 PM
Turtle: There's vegetarian things you can eat to make up for that, I'm pretty sure, unless it's a condition you have. You just have to talk to your doctor and balance your diet out.

Daghain
10-26-2008, 08:51 PM
Turtle: bananas and avocados are excellent sources of potassium - avocados especially. You wouldn't get enough potassium or iron from dairy, I don't think.

Offhand, I can't think of a good source of protein that is not meat, other than soy.

The Lady of Shadows
10-26-2008, 08:54 PM
thanks everybody! it's a good thing you all agree (i'm getting some advice in pm's as well) and a good thing i love bananas and avocado! :D

:thumbsup:

you guys are all so cool*!






*yes, even you sam. :rose:

Sam
10-26-2008, 10:02 PM
:blush: Aw, shucks. If there's anything I can do to help, let me know. If you need help researching anything, just ask. I'm an excellent researcher.

Now, when should I expect them nekkid pics you promised to send me?:evil:

The Lady of Shadows
10-27-2008, 12:00 PM
:blush: Aw, shucks. If there's anything I can do to help, let me know. If you need help researching anything, just ask. I'm an excellent researcher.

Now, when should I expect them nekkid pics you promised to send me?:evil:

no such promise was ever made, nor ever will be made, nor ever shall be made. and if my husband ever heard that i'd be banned from this board for life. :(

Sam
10-27-2008, 02:03 PM
:unsure:not trying to get you banned.

*in a whisper*you can send 'em on the DL.:thumbsup::drool:

Just kidding Mr. Turtlesong.

The Lady of Shadows
10-27-2008, 02:11 PM
new topic sam. NOW.

Sam
10-27-2008, 03:54 PM
Back to our regularly scheduled posting regarding the eating of intelligent? or tasty:thumbsup: critters/veggies

Bob26003
10-29-2008, 02:40 PM
Well, animals eat other animals. They don't care about animal rights and they ARE animals!

Plus we need protein....... Without it our brains would not have evolved.

And PPL don't have the time nor inclination to spend their day mixing and matching beans seeds grains and veggies to make sure they get all their aminos.

It sux and I feel for the chickens and I definately believe in free range and all that but honestly what other option is there?

My Brother is a serious health fanatic............. He tried to go veggie but is allergic to soy, he didn't last too long.... He lost alot of weight

I got worried about him.

cozener
10-30-2008, 05:21 AM
Meat is good. I love eating meat and I pretty much fall in line with Laura and Daggers on the subject. I pretty much want to punch people if they try to lecture me on the "evils of meat."

Ok, I'll be evil but I'm still going to enjoy this prime rib. Its those people that are evil...not you. Anyone that promotes the specialization of the human diet is attempting to create a situation where humanity is at a greater risk for extinction and if you seek to destroy your own species that pretty much puts you under the "evil" classification in Brad's Big Book O' Evil. One of the reasons that humanity has managed to thrive all over the world is because we can eat just about anything. Meat also allowed us to develop the brains we're so damn proud of, the very brains that not only allow us to create complex tools, maps, algebra, and nifty weapons systems from the ataltl to the Abrams tank but also to have the higher thought to debate the morality of meat consumption.

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 05:41 AM
Fuck you Brad! Your meat-eating brainwashing won't work on us, motherfucker!!

cozener
10-30-2008, 06:02 AM
:lol: Y'know my wife called me an elitist because I prefer to have meat with just about every meal? :wtf:

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 06:04 AM
:lol: Y'know my wife called me an elitist because I prefer to have meat with just about every meal? :wtf:


Ummm? That time of the month?

cozener
10-30-2008, 06:33 AM
It usually is... :beat:

theBeamisHome
10-30-2008, 06:56 AM
Well, animals eat other animals. They don't care about animal rights and they ARE animals! </snip>


:clap:

i'm an omnivore. i don't get a lot of vegetables because i got to this small southern college... not only that i have a southern family.. and apparently down here the only way they can eat vegetables is if they're cooked in animal fat or something... ugh.. my immediate family went on an "organic" diet once and i liked it. i can live without meat for a while i think as long as i have mushrooms. my favorite thing to make is sauteed spinach and mushrooms :drool:. but i love steak and lamb... i get sick of chicken pretty quickly.. and i can only eat pork in moderation, and i don't like ham at all... i like bacon... sausage sometimes.. and i just recently got back on pork chops :drool: again...

i don't have a problem with vegetarians or vegans as long as they aren't preachy... i tried going to a vegan restaurant in nj once and had to leave when they brought me a glass of warm water with no ice and i couldn't even understand what was on the menu.. no thank you, i'll just have a burger. here in fayetteville we have this place called Jason's Deli that has all kinds of fresh food.. i love it. Nigel and I go when we have money.

i've always felt like plants were alive too, so i never saw any validity in the pain argument, but i am sickened by how animals on farms are treated.. the stuff they feed him.. i read an article on it and did actually stop eating meat for a while. my favorite grocery store is Whole Foods.. they get their produce from local farmers.. all the meat is free range and healthily kept.. it's great.. and it might be more expensive, but i think it's well worth it.

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 06:59 AM
and i don't like ham at all... i like bacon... sausage sometimes.. and i just recently got back on pork chops :drool: again...


Don't like ham?? Have you had spiral cut ham? REAL ham? At least you like bacon, sausage and pork chops though, because if not I would have lost all respect for you.

theBeamisHome
10-30-2008, 07:02 AM
idk what it is about ham... and no i haven't had spiral cut.. but it's usually too salty for me.. or sweet.. i don't really like my meat sweet.. and it tends to give me headaches i've noticed so i stopped eating it.. but nothing could keep me away from bacon or a nice kielbasa sausage :drool:

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 07:04 AM
i don't really like my meat sweet.. Wait, that's different from what you've said in the past!? ;)



and it tends to give me headaches i've noticed so i stopped eating it.. but nothing could keep me away from bacon or a nice kielbasa sausage :drool:


Mmmmm I love keilbasa also. Any kind of smoked sausage like that is wonderful.

theBeamisHome
10-30-2008, 07:06 AM
i don't really like my meat sweet.. Wait, that's different from what you've said in the past!? ;)



:rofl:

cozener
10-30-2008, 10:56 AM
Honey Baked Ham is wonderful.

Damn....I want me some ham now.

theBeamisHome
10-30-2008, 11:18 AM
i want some kielbasa...

jayson
10-30-2008, 11:24 AM
I also dislike ham (with or without green eggs). I do like most other meat products derived from piggies, but not ham.

theBeamisHome
10-30-2008, 11:27 AM
I also dislike ham (with or without green eggs). I do like most other meat products derived from piggies, but not ham.

:couple: united against ham!! :lol:

it's not a recent thing guys.. in fact, i think the headaches might be psychosomatic... i actually have pretty low blood pressure.. but don't like the ham :nope:

it's really hard for these deep south soul food cooking people to make vegetables edible... or still vegetables for that matter... i think when you start cooking it in animal grease to "give it flavor" you turn it into a fatty thing.. not necessarily a meat, but all the good-for-you stuff is gone..

Jean
10-30-2008, 11:38 AM
I have googled "spiral cut ham", and yes, that's the only ham worthy of the name.