What would Roland ultimately choose?

[Pere Callahan]

There has been much discussion of the fact that Roland saving the beams (and thus the Tower) was only a "means to an end for him". His goal is to climb the tower and question who/whatever might reside at the top. It always comes down to choices for Roland:Save Jake/ catch the Man in Black, Susan vs pursuit of the Tower, go after Susaanah vs. pursuit of the tower, the situation in Tull, etc. Based on his choices, consider this scenario:
Suppose that just before the battle of Algul Siento, Roland is given a choice: He can enter the Tower and question what resides at the top (assuming someone or something does) immediately if he chooses to forgo the battle. Of course this will lead to the Tower falling. He is guaranteed that this will not happen until his "talk" is concluded. He learns that if he chooses to fight at Blue Heaven, he will not be able to have this talk at the top of the Tower.
In the end, would Roland choose saving the world or accomplishing his goal? I realize that some will argue "Save the world.....open and shut case" Yet I wonder about this. I think this question gets to the central nature of the gunslinger....if he had to choose between the fate of the world and his questions, what would he do?

[Letti]

I think this question get to the central nature of the gunslinger....if he had to choose between the fate of the world and his questions, what would he do?

It depend son when. The closer Roland gets to the Tower the less he makes it for himself.

[Jean]

what a wonderful, great, fantastic question!

I'll have to think about it a lot, but here's an immediate hunch (and, like Roland, bears rely on their hunches): he would choose to save the world if it was complying with his gunslinging self, because he must be slowly beginning to feel, if not to understand (that is reserved till later) that if his soul falls, the tower falls; the universe is hinged on his soul, like the inside of the Tower will reveal later, and betraying himself would be already destroying the world, the tower including - no "answers" would be given anyway (always provided that he has any questions left, which I am not sure of.)

[Letti]

I feel He would have chosen the world but later he would have been sorry for it.
But yeah... it's not an easy question.

[Pere Callahan]

Thanks, Jean.
I reserve the right to change my mind later, but my initial answer is that he says "world be damned" At times in the series I get the impression that Roland has a strong disdain towards the world, not only the one which is or has been moving on, but even the one of love and light that he at times fondly remembers. His own father often confounded him. The world certainly has been perpetually unkind to him. All he has ever loved has been lost to him. I have often thought that if he did encounter "God" or something which owned the Tower, his first inclination would be to shoot it/he/she in the head.....and perhaps he would be justified in doing so. I know that's harsh....... yet so is Roland.

[Jean]

But it isn't really about the world, it is about himself. It's his own integrity he has to preserve. There's something he said in Wolves - I've been trying to find it, but couldn't right now - about how they had to help the Callas, because that's what gunslingers do.

[jayson]

But it isn't really about the world, it is about himself. It's his own integrity he has to preserve. There's something he said in Wolves - I've been trying to find it, but couldn't right now - about how they had to help the Callas, because that's what gunslingers do.

I suspect the line you are referring to is when he tells Eddie that if they did not help the Callas they'd never get within 1,000 miles of the Tower, or something to that effect. It's in the early part of the book, when they are still in the woods after first meeting the emissaries from the Calla.

[Jean]

oh thank you! yes, that's it:

"Unless we stand true, we'll never get within a thousand miles of the Tower," Roland said. "Would you tell me you don't feel that?"

"Stand true" - that's what it is all about. If "standing true" involves the saving of the world, the world will be saved.

[Ka-tet]

As already been stated, Roland would stand true i think. I the end. If there ever is an end....

[Gantoad]

But what if standing true didn't require him to save the Callah or go to Blue Heaven, eliminating that bar to the question; would it be the World(s) or the Tower(s)?

[Ka-tet]

The worlds, because standing true involves good(in my opinion) i think if he HAD to choose, Roland would choose the worlds.

[The Lady of Shadows]

what a wonderful question.

i have to say that given everything i know now, given everything i think of and about roland, he would say the hell with the world, i choose the tower. he's been about the tower all the way, and i've said this in other threads. he's murdered for his precious tower and in the end it got him absolutely nothing.

i don't think it's a matter of his pride. i think it's a matter of his stubbornness, his willfulness, his sheer, unadulterated inability to bend. he is not capable of making large changes and what you're asking would require him to make a large change.

it's sad but he would choose the tower and let the world go to hell.

[Brainslinger]

About the worlds, I'm not sure, but the interesting thing is, he was willing to forsake the Tower for a friend.

He knew Jake's plan to save the Writer, and he jumped forward instead. If it wasn't for his bad hip, he would likely have died beneath the wheels of the van, and he would never had reached his precious tower.

Of course Ka had other plans.

It could be argued that it was a spur of the moment thing, and Roland often does things like that (and of course there is the past history with Jake and the guilt of allowing him fall.) but it still a progression. It reminds me of something he thinks at the end of Drawing (or was it the start of Waste Lands): if he gains the Tower and forfeits his soul along the way, what gain is that?

For that reason I think he's probably still save the worlds, if it were and either/or situation. However, since both are tied together, that doesn't mean his primary interest in saving the Tower is to ascend it.

[pathoftheturtle]

...Suppose that just before the battle of Algul Siento, Roland is given a choice: He can enter the Tower and question what resides at the top (assuming someone or something does) immediately if he chooses to forgo the battle. Of course this will lead to the Tower falling. He is guaranteed that this will not happen until his "talk" is concluded. He learns that if he chooses to fight at Blue Heaven, he will not be able to have this talk at the top of the Tower.
In the end, would Roland choose saving the world or accomplishing his goal? ...When Nancy Deepneau asked if it was true that Roland cares more for the Tower than for all of existence, Roland replied that "The Dark Tower is existence," suggesting that that is a false choice. To me, the whole point here is that it is not enough to merely survive if life has no purpose.

I think that if the choice you describe had appeared, Roland would have gone to the top of the Tower, trusting that at the end of their talk, he would actually be nonetheless able to talk God into sending him back to the battle, or into otherwise saving the world, or making a new one, perhaps. I figure that he'd think that otherwise, God must be totally unjust, so there's no point in going on, anyway. By the same token, though, he might've just ignored that apparent choice and gone on with his mission, trusting that he still would indeed make it to the top of the tower somehow, no matter how it seemed.

[alinda]

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/POTT2007/shell-avatar.jpg
Good to see you Path! :huglove:

[Darkthoughts]

I've changed the title to better reflect what's being discussed within.

[Kidd Ikarus]

I want to say that he would save the world. My thoughts for this, though they might not make complete sense, all start with the thinny on Turtleback Lane in 1977. The thinny is supposed to kind of be like the Unfound Door. It will take you where ever and whenever you want to be/ go. If Roland had no heart and all his feelings/ emotions/ love/ desire was the Tower . . . why wouldn't he risk it all to have the thinny send him to the Tower instead?

Like I said, it doesn't make complete sense and my brain kinda hurts a little bit with the thought of figuring the whole scenario out, but . . . but it could quite possibly be a scenario that could have happened if Roland chose it to be so . . .

Nevermind, forget it. I just went cross-eyed.:doh:

[a fan]

iv be having an argument whit my sister in law over the extent of Rolands quest. i argue that Roland must save the tower and the return to Gilead she says that he only has to save Jake from falling in book one then he stops his quest there


i pose it to you
save jake
or save the tower

[Brice]

I edited the thread title. It was a spoiler for those who haven't finished. :)

[Merlin1958]

I think neither is the answer. Roland is a mythic amalgam of all of humanity and doesn't have to "save the Tower", per se, but save himself. Mark his character growth through the novels and, I believe, having the "Horn" for the last loop will do it!!!

As Roland grows and matures so does humanity and vice versa. JMHO

[Jean]

this thread will soon be merged

[a fan]

I think neither is the answer. Roland is a mythic amalgam of all of humanity and doesn't have to "save the Tower", per se, but save himself. Mark his character growth through the novels and, I believe, having the "Horn" for the last loop will do it!!!

As Roland grows and matures so does humanity and vice versa. JMHO

but dose he still have to save the tower or end his quest much sooner

[mattgreenbean]

Imagine if he hadn't have killed his mother.

[pathoftheturtle]

Why do people take it for granted that there is some solution in fact and that Gan must be fair? Maybe iwhat's wrong is not just threats from outside but a flaw in the Tower itself. I don't always expect a happy ending from Stephen King.

[Brainslinger]

Well... Gan is described as 'the builder' or words to that effect. Creation at least suggests positivity... although bad things can be created as well.

[beam*seeker]

An interesting theoretic question. I think that after letting Jake drop he realizes that he must put his humanity and love for others above his quest or he will not "deserve" to reach the tower. So, I think he would chose Algul Siento. Now the question that really makes me ponder, is, if he knew Eddie was gonna biff it at the battle of AS, would he have gone ahead???

[pathoftheturtle]

... Creation at least suggests positivity...You mean that no existence imaginable could be worse than non-existence?

[sgc1999]

Why do people take it for granted that there is some solution in fact and that Gan must be fair? Maybe iwhat's wrong is not just threats from outside but a flaw in the Tower itself. I don't always expect a happy ending from Stephen King.

true, and adding to that, the story itself is a remake of the modernist quest for finality, certainty and meaning are turned on its head, leaving the overall plot partly the result of accident and arguably without meaning. And although we are not in the "meaning of the rose" thread i would like to add, The rose alludes to the possibility of many meanings or of nebulous meaning, the rose is a symbolic figure so rich in meanings that by the end it hardly has any meaning.
Thoughts?
to copress all of that i would simply add "Its the same old song and dance" :)