Why didn't Roland ...

[Fly]

Although the death of Oy was foreshadowed, when it finally occurred I found myself upset and angry.

It seemed avoidable. Oy saves Roland by attacking Mordred, yet Roland, once alerted, fails to save him. We have seen countless examples of Roland’s almost superhuman speed with a gun, and yet at this point he seems to take forever to react. He even finds time to shout at Mordred before he even reaches for a weapon. "Put him down, Mordred!" Yeah, right - that's going to work, isn't it. Only when poor little Oy has suffered a fatal injury does he finally pull the gun and shoot.

This upset me more than anything else in the whole story, as it seems so needless, as well as uncharacteristic.

[Matt]

Great idea for a thread Fly. Thanks for the spoiler marker :thumbsup:

Oy was very tragic to me in the end as well. You know that all he wanted to do was stay there with Jake. I am convinced that the brief discussion they had before Jake went was about staying with Roland, protecting him.

Another reason I loved that kid so much, it would have been just like him to be thinking that :cry:

But the poor little guy went so grudgingly, the whole trip, just done after Jake.

I agree with you though, Roland was a little slow at the switch right then and I am not sure if it was Ka, or the fact that Roland was tired, or the simple idea that he never really considered Oy a full member of the katet.

I know he loved him but...the little guy was done.

/end ramble. :cyclops:

[sarah]

Although the death of Oy was foreshadowed, when it finally occurred I found myself upset and angry.

It seemed avoidable. Oy saves Roland by attacking Mordred, yet Roland, once alerted, fails to save him. We have seen countless examples of Roland’s almost superhuman speed with a gun, and yet at this point he seems to take forever to react. He even finds time to shout at Mordred before he even reaches for a weapon. "Put him down, Mordred!" Yeah, right - that's going to work, isn't it. Only when poor little Oy has suffered a fatal injury does he finally pull the gun and shoot.

This upset me more than anything else in the whole story, as it seems so needless, as well as uncharacteristic.



I think it was all part of the story for stephen king. He knew oy must die. How to do it? where? when? who? I've had some real problems with a lot of book seven and to me some parts felt lazy. Meaning SK got lazy. He was writing three books in 18 months and imo he got lax. Oy had to die as did moldred so you know whatever.

everyone played a part, i guess. Maybe I'll feel different after we have done the re-read (starting june 3rd) and I can hopefully see with fresh eyes.

[Daghain]

I thought there were some sloppy moments in book seven as well. I think you're supposed to chalk Oy's death up to Roland's being completely exhausted - he was so tired he put Patrick on watch. He had to know better, but he had no choice.

Or maybe I'm just giving Roland the benefit of the doubt. :)

[pyrokamileon]

I think Oy was just too tired of living. Jake was his best friend but Jake had died. I agree that in Jake's last minutes he probably was instructing Oy to stay with Roland and protect him, and after he lost Jake it seems that Jake's final request was all that was keeping him going. He had already been tricked by Dandelo and Dandelo was the only being who was able to get a word out of him since Jake's departure. After Susannah left it was just Roland and Patrick and he barely had an appetite.
The last argument I have in supporting my point: yes Roland should have moved quicker, I personally don't believe his exhaustion had anything to do with the fact that Mordred didn't fall with a bullet in his belly/between his boy-face eyes (and besides Roland did want Mordred dead... why try even talking to him at all???). But as Oy was attacking/wrestling Mordred there was one small moment when Roland was well awake and Oy could have jumped free of Mordred and lived. But when that moment came I don't think he cared whether he lived or not, he was doing the only thing that mattered to him now, he was carying out Jake's last request. He used that moment to attack Mordred harder and died because of it.

[sarajean]

i agree with just about every word of the above post.

[Matt]

Same here, very well said.

[Daghain]

Yanno, I had not thought of it that way before. You have a really good point, pyro. :)

[pyrokamileon]

why thank you everyone, I appreciate the support!:blush:

[Fly]

Poor Oy. Yes, I think you're right. Still doesn't excuse Roland, though.

[sarah]

I think Oy was just too tired of living. Jake was his best friend but Jake had died. I agree that in Jake's last minutes he probably was instructing Oy to stay with Roland and protect him, and after he lost Jake it seems that Jake's final request was all that was keeping him going. He had already been tricked by Dandelo and Dandelo was the only being who was able to get a word out of him since Jake's departure. After Susannah left it was just Roland and Patrick and he barely had an appetite.
The last argument I have in supporting my point: yes Roland should have moved quicker, I personally don't believe his exhaustion had anything to do with the fact that Mordred didn't fall with a bullet in his belly/between his boy-face eyes (and besides Roland did want Mordred dead... why try even talking to him at all???). But as Oy was attacking/wrestling Mordred there was one small moment when Roland was well awake and Oy could have jumped free of Mordred and lived. But when that moment came I don't think he cared whether he lived or not, he was doing the only thing that mattered to him now, he was carying out Jake's last request. He used that moment to attack Mordred harder and died because of it.



Thanks for this post. I felt it fresh and it gave me a new perspective.

[ZoNeSeeK]

I think Oy suicided and I think Roland knew this.

[Mordred Deschain]

Although the death of Oy was foreshadowed, when it finally occurred I found myself upset and angry.

It seemed avoidable. Oy saves Roland by attacking Mordred, yet Roland, once alerted, fails to save him. We have seen countless examples of Roland’s almost superhuman speed with a gun, and yet at this point he seems to take forever to react. He even finds time to shout at Mordred before he even reaches for a weapon. "Put him down, Mordred!" Yeah, right - that's going to work, isn't it. Only when poor little Oy has suffered a fatal injury does he finally pull the gun and shoot.

This upset me more than anything else in the whole story, as it seems so needless, as well as uncharacteristic.

I just finished that part...almost cried. I knew Oy was gonna go to the clearing (forshadowing and already read it before), but damn, it got me again!!

[VolsToTheWall]

I think Oy suicided and I think Roland knew this.

I agree totally, Oy was only fulfilling what Jake had asked of him, was only continuing to live because of that request. Oy had fulfilled his part and was ready to go to the clearing at the end of the path and be reunited with Jake.

[pyrokamileon]

you're welcome Maerlyn, I'm glad my opinion helped.
I just finished the series about a week ago and now I'm simultaneously reading The Little Sisters of Eluria and The Road to The Dark Tower by Bev Vincent (I'm expecting to finish with The Little Sisters first obviously but I want to make sure I have it read so that The Road to The Dark Tower doesn't ruin it for me) and although I'm still early in The Road to The Dark Tower (I just finished the section that overviewed The Wastelands) there is something that I just read that I thought particularly applied to this current topic: When Jake was the Gasher's prisoner and when the TickTock Man was beating him Oy attacked the TickTock Man "with the same determination and disregard for his own well-being that he will later use against Mordred. TickTock bends Oy almost to the breaking point..." (it feels like its been such a long time since I was reading these earlier parts of the story there are some parts that I hardly remember, I think reading The Road to The Dark Tower is almost better than rereading the series, which I had already planned to do, because I get to have someone else explain their understanding of the story and bring to the table all kinds of interesting research) So it seems Oy doesn't shy away from putting his life in the line when he knows such a thing is necessary... and his battle with Mordred is not the first time someone has tried to break his back in the process.

[Fly]

Good point again. And who was to say that Oy might not have to come to Roland's aid again?

[Matt]

I think the simple answer here is the same as it always is....





Ka

[Mordred Deschain]

I say true!

[ZoNeSeeK]

If i saw Ka i would fuck it.

[kithereal]

I always questioned why Roland let Jake drop ......
I don't think that he was supposed to do that.
Why did he take the man in black's word that he was supposed to make that sacrifice....? He was his enemy , he was bad man.
I think that is why the ending happened the way it did...

I wonder about the ending and what it means....
should I talk about that in a different thread?

KIT

[Jean]

probably, yes; I am sorry http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_sad.gif if the title of this thread sounds ambiguous: the starter post elaborates on it.

[ZoNeSeeK]

I was really shat off with Flagg's death. That was the only part in the last book that I was confused as to why King wrapped him up like that.

[Mordred Deschain]

I always questioned why Roland let Jake drop ......
I don't think that he was supposed to do that.
Why did he take the man in black's word that he was supposed to make that sacrifice....? He was his enemy , he was bad man.
I think that is why the ending happened the way it did...

I wonder about the ending and what it means....
should I talk about that in a different thread?

KIT

The only answer I can give to your question is that thru the entire series, is that Roland would sacrifice anything to get to the Dark Tower. Obsessive. The choice to save Jake or to finish his quest that he's already sacrificed all that he has loved. If he lost the man in black, he would not get to the tower. I don't think he could afford NOT to believe Walter.

ZoNeSeeK:
I kind of feel the same way. First, I find it hard to believe Flagg would have been beaten that easily (even by Mordred) and I thought that even know it was foretold about Roland and the Crimson King, I still think Rolands final battle should have been against Flagg. I may get on the shit list for this, but I think King rushed the end.

[Jean]

Dear friends,

please, don't let us discuss everything within one thread. Each of the questions touched upon in the post above are worthy of their own separate threads. If someone is willing to start them, they are very, very welcome. http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Fly]

I am sorry if the title of this thread sounds ambiguous: the starter post elaborates on it.

Yes, sorry - I couldn't say much more in the title without giving away a spoiler.

[Matt]

Its okay Fly, we're still developing the routine :D