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View Full Version : Eddie's Age - Which One Is It?



jayson
08-08-2008, 05:16 PM
So I've been re-reading Drawing and it occurred to me that King is inconsistent with Eddie's age...

At one point fairly early in the book King writes, "...there was enough steel left in his spine for him to have some to loan this scared twenty-one-year-old junkie."

A bit later on Eddie tells Odetta that he is twenty-three. Not only does he say he's twenty-three, but says that he was born in 1964 and was drawn into Roland's world in 1987, which would confirm that he was twenty-three.

So which is it? Not that it matters all that much, but I wish (a) King were a bit less sloppy with things like this, and (b) that an editor would have done their job properly and caught this mistake.

The Lady of Shadows
08-08-2008, 05:40 PM
it's a continuity mistake. just like the time of odetta's drawing gets messed up.

originally she was drawn right after kennedy's assassination (approx. feb or march of 1964) because when she gets back from her "detta walker jaunt" andrew is talking about how kennedy was the last gunslinger and odetta is completely mortified by this comparison. remember? and when roland enters her doorway and comes back he asks eddie what he sees and he says they were wearing coats and boots and roland thinks that eddie missed the gloves and scarves but otherwise did well.

but she talks about being jailed in the summer of 1964 which would have occurred after she was drawn. Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman, and James Chaney, who she talks about having gone down to mississippi because of (even though they disappeared from ohio) didn't disappear until june of 1964 after being arrested for speeding and then being released.

so, if the timeline is to be believed, odetta was drawn in jan, feb, or march of 1965 and we know she wasn't because of her age and what was said in her conversation with andrew and what was on the news the night before she was drawn while detta was shoplifting.


my point, in this roundabout way, is that eddie is 23 and odetta was drawn in early 1964 and all other references are mistakes that got melded into the text and kept going. then the story got built on them and he couldn't get rid of them.

The Lady of Shadows
08-08-2008, 05:51 PM
Kind did that a lot in all the books.

well seriously, no offense, but you try writing a seven volume magnum opus that spans over 30 years. with about a hundred characters. and about 20 different settings. and a multitude of languages. and in the middle of it getting hit and almost killed by a stupid van. and kicking drugs, alcohol, and tobacco while you're doing it.

oh, and writing all trivial little other stories in the process.


my brain would be a little fucked up too.

:doh:

:lol:

jayson
08-08-2008, 06:31 PM
I agree with you Alex.

Although the continuity mistakes like these are minor, they are bothersome and could have been avoided. He could at least keep the details about his major characters consistent. And if not King, an editor should have caught these things.

Jean
08-08-2008, 10:03 PM
yes, we've discussed it elsewhere - and I am still firm in my opinion that all those so-called "mistakes" only reflect the immense complexity and intrinsic self-contradictoriness of existence. There're things in the way the universe/multiverse is organized that is beyond human comprehension, and they manifest themselves in phenomena we perceive as paradoxes and contradictions.

Letti
08-08-2008, 10:07 PM
I always say the same: thank God I am not clever enough to notice mistakes.

Jean
08-08-2008, 10:15 PM
it's not the question of "clever". It's just that you trust the author, because the author is God of his creation, and you put yourself into His hands. I think that's what makes a reader really happy with reading, and turns a book into a whole new universe, not just a pile of paper sheets typed on.

fernandito
08-09-2008, 01:56 AM
He could at least keep the details about his major characters consistent.

I agree completely. I mean, he's one of the major characters in what's considered to be your Magnum Opus, shouldn't you go through even further lengths to ensure that his information lines up across the story properly/accordingly?

Brice
08-09-2008, 02:33 AM
I am only surprised there weren't more errors than there are.

Woofer
08-09-2008, 05:13 AM
It's easy enough to keep notes on characters. Rolodex, notebook, computer file, index cards, etc.

While I forgive King the mistakes, I do wish he had done one of the above to prevent them. I remember reading that some author even went so far as to hang the index cards on a corkboard and run colored yarn between the characters to denot relationships and timelines.

I'm just sayin'...

jayson
08-09-2008, 06:52 AM
While I forgive King the mistakes, I do wish he had done one of the above to prevent them.

That's pretty much exactly how I see it. I don't really "blame" King. Fact is, I kind of like finding the mistakes because (a) it's a good way to see how much I'm really retaining of what I read, and (b) it reminds me that King is human. It breaks the spell a little bit when I catch a mistake, but overall it doesn't take away from the overall magic of the series.

Matt
08-11-2008, 09:53 AM
originally she was drawn right after kennedy's assassination (approx. feb or march of 1964) because when she gets back from her "detta walker jaunt" andrew is talking about how kennedy was the last gunslinger and odetta is completely mortified by this comparison. remember? and when Roland enters her doorway and comes back he asks Eddie what he sees and he says they were wearing coats and boots and roland thinks that eddie missed the gloves and scarves but otherwise did well.

Hmmm...I think what you are thinking of was a memory of a past one. When Roland draws Suze, she is Detta again isn't she? I always got the impression that the "JFK is gunslinger" moment was from a previous outing. Not that we were picking up the moment right then.

As far as Eddie's age, it may be inconsistant but I also believe that if you are talking to someone from the past in a totally different world, your age isn't really traceable anyway. :lol:

jayson
08-11-2008, 10:31 AM
As far as Eddie's age, it may be inconsistant but I also believe that if you are talking to someone from the past in a totally different world, your age isn't really traceable anyway. :lol:

:lol:
Perhaps Eddie just doesn't know how old he is. I mean he's not a real person right? He's a character in a book.

Maybe he should have asked King when they met. "Hey, how old am I anyway?"

LadyHitchhiker
08-17-2008, 07:20 AM
I know people complain about the continuity mistakes but I always attributed the confusions to the fact the beams were broken... There's only one or two blatant mistakes I get mad at SK for.

The Lady of Shadows
08-17-2008, 01:22 PM
I know people complain about the continuity mistakes but I always attributed the confusions to the fact the beams were broken... There's only one or two blatant mistakes I get mad at SK for.


:clap:

Bethany
08-17-2008, 01:32 PM
originally she was drawn right after kennedy's assassination (approx. feb or march of 1964) because when she gets back from her "detta walker jaunt" andrew is talking about how kennedy was the last gunslinger and odetta is completely mortified by this comparison. remember? and when Roland enters her doorway and comes back he asks Eddie what he sees and he says they were wearing coats and boots and roland thinks that eddie missed the gloves and scarves but otherwise did well.

Hmmm...I think what you are thinking of was a memory of a past one. When Roland draws Suze, she is Detta again isn't she? I always got the impression that the "JFK is gunslinger" moment was from a previous outing. Not that we were picking up the moment right then.

As far as Eddie's age, it may be inconsistant but I also believe that if you are talking to someone from the past in a totally different world, your age isn't really traceable anyway. :lol:

could it be that perhaps people, especially those intimately involved in the civil rights movement, were still talking about JFK and his death in 1965??

Whitey Appleseed
12-28-2008, 07:50 PM
I don't have a clue about the age thing. Read this thread before a re-read and I still don't know. There's something else, though, Henry going to Vietnam, playing basketball with Eddie--something about him not knowing who Carter is...yeah, cause he's the eminent junkie, et cetera...seemed like he was 18-19 playing BB, it's 1977, yadda yadda. Maybe have an Inferno Update, have King down there on some level, squatting on the coals, with all those popes and kings...there was also a lot of paper in Lud...all the good it did them...probably something in the Ovaltine...who put the Benzedrine in Mr. Peabody's Wayback Machine?

EdwardDean1999
02-10-2009, 04:30 PM
So which is it? Not that it matters all that much, but I wish (a) King were a bit less sloppy with things like this, and (b) that an editor would have done their job properly and caught this mistake.

SK doesn't need to be less sloppy. The editor is the one who screwed it up. We know King is famous for these kinds of mistakes. I personally don't look to an author to apologize for these mistakes. You start looking into continuity constantly as a writer while writing a story and you interrupt the flow of your work. You can't write. It slows you down. It interrupts the story telling/narrative flow. While writing, a writer has the option of backtracking to previous statements about a character's age or pushing on with expressing ideas as they fly through his/her head. The creative process can not be interrupted. Even when doing rewrites/revision. Let the editor take the blame for these published misses. Let the writer worry about the story.

I think too that it's worth noting that you caught this on your re-read. Assuming that you missed it on read through #1 then I say the inconsistently does not matter to the casual reader. So SK was right to push on and not worry about Eddie's age. His narrative flow remained unbroken and you didn't even look back as a reader because you were so into the story.

jayson
02-10-2009, 05:23 PM
You start looking into continuity constantly as a writer while writing a story and you interrupt the flow of your work. You can't write. It slows you down. It interrupts the story telling/narrative flow. While writing, a writer has the option of backtracking to previous statements about a character's age or pushing on with expressing ideas as they fly through his/her head. The creative process can not be interrupted. Even when doing rewrites/revision.

Of course this can all be avoided if the writer uses an outline or some of other form of organizational procedure prior to writing the text.

I agree that the fault lies more with the editor for not catching this mistake, that's an important aspect of the editor's job, but I don't think the writer can be completely absolved.

MonteGss
02-11-2009, 12:42 AM
If I knew I was getting into a BIG project such as The Dark Tower (like King did), I would keep some pretty good f*ckin notes or outlines, doodles, scratch papers, whatever. However, getting the story out is what matters.

King was kinda lazy for not doing these things while writing but his editor DOES have more of the blame for not catching the mistakes and fixing them before publication. The end. :)

Matt of Gilead
02-11-2009, 09:36 AM
King started with outlines, but over the course of 30 years things get misplaced. Now, there is little excuse for mistakes within a single book. That is, indeed, the editor's job.

MonteGss
02-11-2009, 09:38 AM
I disagree. The editor should also be checking for continuity errors as well, imo.

jayson
02-11-2009, 09:42 AM
I agree Monte. I think the editor is responsible for catching all manner of errors prior to publication. King gets some blame for making the mistake, but the editor gets the larger share for not catching it.

Brice
02-11-2009, 09:44 AM
...and the original outline King started with was lost prior to publication of The Gunslinger (or at least very early on in the series) if I recall correctly. It wouldn't have been hard at that point for him to start a new one. Although I actually don't think outlines are really necessary myself. I don't think it's the writer's responsibility to catch every mistake. I think it's the editor's, but hey in a work of that magnitude (the whole series) there are bound to be some mistakes I think.

obscurejude
02-11-2009, 09:45 AM
See, here's the thing. I'm pretty sure that King hates editors and once he was a money making machine, as was the case by The Drawing of the Three, I'm pretty sure he only hired people that took a relatively hands off approach.

I do absolve King, though, in the name of father, son, and holy spirit.

candy
02-11-2009, 10:09 AM
i also picked up on this, but as mentioned above i put this down to the breakin of the beams and tme being in flux. i just thought SK was super clever, and i prefer to go on thinking this:fairy:

obscurejude
02-11-2009, 10:10 AM
Super clever, but inevitably human, even on paper. He's not really a ves ka.

Jean
02-11-2009, 10:16 AM
i also picked up on this, but as mentioned above i put this down to the breakin of the beams and tme being in flux.
That's part of what I've always thought, and am going to keep thinking. This, and the fact that the existence in the universe - let alone multiverse - is paradoxical and self-contradictory, seldom consistent and often making no sense. The saga is only a true reflection of that.

obscurejude
02-11-2009, 10:20 AM
i also picked up on this, but as mentioned above i put this down to the breakin of the beams and tme being in flux.
That's part of what I've always thought, and am going to keep thinking. This, and the fact that the existence in the universe - let alone multiverse - is paradoxical and self-contradictory, seldom consistent and often making no sense. The saga is only a true reflection of that.

Convenient. :P

Jean
02-11-2009, 10:23 AM
No, not really. The Dark Tower is unique in this sense. If anyone else tries to do the same, he would have to prove his choice of means by the equal magnitude of what he endeavors to create, or else it will look ridiculous. I believe the means sai King used perfectly suit his purpose, and the result is convincing as it is. Look at most (if not all) artificially constructed universes that suit the logic of three-dimensional continuity: they all feel dead, and the Dark Tower multiverse feels alive, like the world around us that we perceive by many more means than merely cartesian; I am sure not in spite of, but largely thanks to the so-called "errors"

(It feels that way to bears, anyway.)

obscurejude
02-11-2009, 10:27 AM
No, not really. The Dark Tower is unique in this sense. If anyone else tries to do the same, he would have to prove his choice of means by the equal magnitude of what he endeavors to create.

If there weren't errors in non DT books as well, your point would have more gravitas. King is notorious for having his books very slightly edited, mostly to just appease the publishing houses. I think its cool, but I also think that's the real reason that things like the disparity between Eddie's ages transpires.

Don't blame me for bringing reality into the fiction. King started it, when he inserted "real" books, characters, and himself. That's when the whole "this is the multiverse" excuse lost its appeal. Its just a personal opinion, and I admit its subjective.

RBoz3
02-11-2009, 02:59 PM
No, not really. The Dark Tower is unique in this sense. If anyone else tries to do the same, he would have to prove his choice of means by the equal magnitude of what he endeavors to create, or else it will look ridiculous. I believe the means sai King used perfectly suit his purpose, and the result is convincing as it is. Look at most (if not all) artificially constructed universes that suit the logic of three-dimensional continuity: they all feel dead, and the Dark Tower multiverse feels alive, like the world around us that we perceive by many more means than merely cartesian; I am sure not in spite of, but largely thanks to the so-called "errors"

(It feels that way to bears, anyway.)

Absolutely. The reason this feels so "convincing" is because it is a part of an already constructed universe... Ours. We are able to make the relation because the story pulls us in through NYC, through Topeka, Kansas, through SK himself being a part of it. These correlations create the need to feel related to it. Eddie's age change, in my humble opinion, is able to be adjusted by different factors. Time is a face on the water. Between being in NY, being pulled through his door, being forced into a WORLD not his own, I can understand how this mistake could easily be Eddie's. There have most certainly been times in my life where I felt I could have been older / younger than I am, and with a lot on my plate, if asked, could have told you that was the case.

As closely as I feel to Eddie being in my second read-through, minus the drug addictions :P , I can understand how this age difference could be his fault.

obscurejude
02-11-2009, 03:23 PM
I hope none of you ever visit a publishing house, meet an editor in real life, or god forbid see a printing press. It reminds me of homestead baptists who defend the King James Version of the Bible to the death.

jayson
02-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Absolutely. The reason this feels so "convincing" is because it is a part of an already constructed universe... Ours. We are able to make the relation because the story pulls us in through NYC, through Topeka, Kansas, through SK himself being a part of it. These correlations create the need to feel related to it. Eddie's age change, in my humble opinion, is able to be adjusted by different factors. Time is a face on the water. Between being in NY, being pulled through his door, being forced into a WORLD not his own, I can understand how this mistake could easily be Eddie's. There have most certainly been times in my life where I felt I could have been older / younger than I am, and with a lot on my plate, if asked, could have told you that was the case.

As closely as I feel to Eddie being in my second read-through, minus the drug addictions :P , I can understand how this age difference could be his fault.

Where that totally falls apart for me is that the error doesn't occur with Eddie stating his age differently twice. It's not in dialogue but in narrative descriptions where Eddie's age is given differently. It certainly has nothing to do with Eddie.

As much as we'd like to "believe" in Roland's world, there comes a time in discussions to acknowledge that it's a work of fiction and its internal mistakes are not the fault of crumbling fictional beams or the moving on of a world that doesn't actually exist. Perhaps it's not as fun to view it this way, but the fact is King made a mistake and the editor didn't catch it.

EdwardDean1999
02-11-2009, 04:43 PM
I do absolve King, though, in the name of father, son, and holy spirit.

HA! :rofl:

EdwardDean1999
02-11-2009, 04:48 PM
I hope none of you ever visit a publishing house, meet an editor in real life, or god forbid see a printing press. It reminds me of homestead baptists who defend the King James Version of the Bible to the death.

And that was funny too! :rofl:

obscurejude
02-11-2009, 07:24 PM
:cool:

ClicheGuevara
02-11-2009, 10:25 PM
You know, I didn't even think about his age until I read this thread. . Guess I'm not all that observant. . :lol: in my head I always thought he was about 25, 26.

Matt of Gilead
02-19-2009, 06:53 AM
No, not really. The Dark Tower is unique in this sense. If anyone else tries to do the same, he would have to prove his choice of means by the equal magnitude of what he endeavors to create, or else it will look ridiculous. I believe the means sai King used perfectly suit his purpose, and the result is convincing as it is. Look at most (if not all) artificially constructed universes that suit the logic of three-dimensional continuity: they all feel dead, and the Dark Tower multiverse feels alive, like the world around us that we perceive by many more means than merely cartesian; I am sure not in spite of, but largely thanks to the so-called "errors"

(It feels that way to bears, anyway.)

Bears have a strange view of things, in my opinion. I believe that King's multiverse feels alive because he is a damn good author. However, his distaste for editing means that his editors don't catch every mistake.

Silvermoth
02-27-2009, 11:22 PM
I always pictured him as a 21 year old probably because of his immaturity

Merlin1958
02-28-2009, 01:05 AM
Absolutely. The reason this feels so "convincing" is because it is a part of an already constructed universe... Ours. We are able to make the relation because the story pulls us in through NYC, through Topeka, Kansas, through SK himself being a part of it. These correlations create the need to feel related to it. Eddie's age change, in my humble opinion, is able to be adjusted by different factors. Time is a face on the water. Between being in NY, being pulled through his door, being forced into a WORLD not his own, I can understand how this mistake could easily be Eddie's. There have most certainly been times in my life where I felt I could have been older / younger than I am, and with a lot on my plate, if asked, could have told you that was the case.

As closely as I feel to Eddie being in my second read-through, minus the drug addictions :P , I can understand how this age difference could be his fault.

Where that totally falls apart for me is that the error doesn't occur with Eddie stating his age differently twice. It's not in dialogue but in narrative descriptions where Eddie's age is given differently. It certainly has nothing to do with Eddie.

As much as we'd like to "believe" in Roland's world, there comes a time in discussions to acknowledge that it's a work of fiction and its internal mistakes are not the fault of crumbling fictional beams or the moving on of a world that doesn't actually exist. Perhaps it's not as fun to view it this way, but the fact is King made a mistake and the editor didn't catch it.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

By the way, Eddie is "Old enough to know better!!" lol lol lol

I just crack myself up!!! lol lol

All do respect...Give me a break, he fucked up! Doesn't ruin the overall story. it's a relatively minor glitch. It happens, move on IMHO

Also, Obscure? Loved that King James comment!! lol lol

trig_troll
03-08-2010, 02:39 PM
I can't believe that the age thing caught you up but no one noticed Eddie and Henry's dead sister! I don't have the boks in front of me but I'm almost positive that In "Drawing" her name was Selina, in "Wastelands" its "Gloria". Especially considering that Eddie came from the KEYSTONE world!

The BB game in '77 bothered me too. He said it was before Henry went to Vietnam. Vietnam was over by '77.

That being said they are SK's books and authors can write anything they want to.
Especially brilliant ones that might be a little jacked up.

Brainslinger
03-09-2010, 06:43 PM
Yeah, the first is certainly an error. (Just substitute Selina for Gloria when you read it. Or vice versa. For some reason Gloria seems more... Eddiesian to me...)

I'm sure the Vietnam date was an error too, but in hindsight I'd say that's one of the differences from Eddie's world. Oh, and Eddie doesn't come from the keystone world! I don't think any of the ka-tet do.

flaggwalkstheline
03-09-2010, 08:53 PM
I think inconsistencies such as eddies age can be blamed on stephen king, you know the fictional one who was posessed by gan and such:cool::dance:

Brice
03-10-2010, 02:53 AM
or maybe different Eddies?

Roland of Gilead 33
01-22-2011, 02:21 PM
good point, different Eddie's. my guess is that both the publisher & "SK" just completly forgot about the names when it comes to 'Eddie's Sister i mean, actually i always forget he even has a sister! cause it's mentioned so briefly that it's NOT even funny. NOT that i expect an entire chapter about it i don't. but i'm just saying i always forget he even had a sister!

anyways, my guess is his age is 23 like "SK" said in 'The Waste Lands" i forget how old he was suppose to be in 'DT2" though, one question though, does any of the characters age while on the quest? we know 'Roland" i think does after meeting Walter in the 1st book.

in that world before he meets up with walter it makes me wonder on how much 'Roland" slept well that walter my guess made him sleep.. i wonder if the war was still going on in "LUD" ? hot & heavy with "David Quick" at the helm perhaps? or maybe even before him?

Bama71
07-19-2011, 12:29 PM
I've noticed the continuity errors dealing with Eddie and Susannah's ages myself. King also writes that Detta Walker would dance with the white boys 'to ofay party music like Double Shot of My Baby's Love', a song which was not released until 1966 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swingin%27_Medallions), making her 2 years older than stated. It's always bothered me that these mistakes were left in, while The Gunslinger was updated to fix mistakes. But I agree that over 30 years it would be hard to keep it all together. Maybe someday things will be cleaned up. I've heard that he may revise and update the whole cycle. We'll see.

SDZald
09-18-2014, 08:16 AM
King is such a good story teller that when I read his books I can be really drawn into the story, it is like I am in the story, the real world vanish and I become part of his created world.

Let's take the DT VII, Roland only has one of his guns after Suze goes through the door to meet up with Eddie and Jake and "live happily ever after." Yet when Roland is hiding behind the ruins as the King tosses Snitches (sp) he thinks he can handle them as long as the King tosses no more then 12 Snitches, since he only has one "six shooter" and really only one good hand shouldn't he be worried about the King tossing more then 6?

YES I know this is so minor a point that it is laughable and affects the story in NO way. Yet it yanks me out of Roland's world, it is like someone jarring me out of a very vivid daydream.

Don't ask me why my brain works the way it does, I mean I am so engrossed in the story how the heck can such a trivial fact jar me out of it? But it does and it distracts from my pleasure of reading such a fine story. Considering there are many such instances of this happening throughout the series it is bothersome to me.

I put most of the blame on the editor, it is their JOB to make sure things like that get cleaned up and they did a very poor job of it.