The Official End Thread

[Matt]

I believe the end matches the idea of the story. Basically "ka is a wheel" or "what goes around, comes around"

The Tower is not going to let Roland stop until he gets it "right" somehow and I believe that getting it right means not going at all because the Tower is about obsession which is a subject I'm sure King knows plenty about.

[TLC]

just a question... if everything starts over for Roland again...and he has to do his journey again, does that mean everyone else in the story has to also? And do the characters in the other stories that tie in start over to? LIke characters in Insomnia and Black house start over too, like none of what they did happened? i'm confused....:orely:

[Matt]

Personally, I think every one is different. The horn proves that imo.

But remember, there are infinite possibilities and Roland could just as easily draw the characters from different levels of the Tower.

But reset? I don't think so.

[Bluenose]

I only skimmed this thread, so if I am repeating a point that has already been made or asking a question that has already been answered, I cry your pardons...

but does anyone else think that the number 19 represents how many times Roland has been through this journey? So if King was to write it again (do an Eddings :D), 20 would be everywhere?

As for the actual ending, when I started the last book, I thought the story would end with Roland approaching the Tower and we wouldnt see what was inside it or what the culmination of the quest was, so to get some closure was nice.

[Brainslinger]

just a question... if everything starts over for Roland again...and he has to do his journey again, does that mean everyone else in the story has to also? And do the characters in the other stories that tie in start over to? LIke characters in Insomnia and Black house start over too, like none of what they did happened? i'm confused....:orely:

Whilst Roland starts over, I'm not sure the others do. I.e. he is sent back in time, so he meets them again, but from their point of view in linear time it's the first time. (That doesn't mean that line can't be altered depending on decisions etc though.)

That being said other members of King's ka-tet have felt a sense of deja-vu as well, but I don't think that's necessarily caused by the loop, but other incarnations. Those incarnations could be literal reincarnations, or a parallel version (twinner if you like), from which they subconsciously pick up impressions. Or it could be something they pick up from Roland being ka-tet.

[Spencer]

The one thing that gets me about it is that, if that was going to be the ending, why is so much made of the fact that King needs to "finish the job"? Cause he didn't finish a damn thing. :lol:

[Jean]

but does anyone else think that the number 19 represents how many times Roland has been through this journey? So if King was to write it again (do an Eddings :D), 20 would be everywhere?
great! this theory was first (at least on my memory) proposed by Taheen 74, - a great lady whom I wish was here - as far back as 2005, at .net, I am so glad she and me (a fervent supporter of the said theory) and a few others who seem to think the same are not alone. If someone else thought of that, it might hold some grain of truth!
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gif

Look around, all specific questions are discussed somewhere. http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[VastOne]

This mayhap already been discussed and I cry pardons if so.....

To the question of whether the same ka-tet would be in the reincarnation, could it be that the answer is no due to the fact that all but Roland had succeeded in growing in this life, and would not need to start again?

[Spencer]

just a question... if everything starts over for Roland again...and he has to do his journey again, does that mean everyone else in the story has to also? And do the characters in the other stories that tie in start over to? LIke characters in Insomnia and Black house start over too, like none of what they did happened? i'm confused....:orely:

Bev Vincent seems to be of that opinion, that Roland must walk with Jake again through the mountains, that he must draw Eddie and Susannah again... etc. I don't share that opinion, I think that those 3 are together in the glammer of the beam for the rest of their lives.

What bugs me is how in the blue hell Walter KNOWS that Roland is in a loop. :lol:

[TLC]

yeah, how does Walter know? and so now is Walter alive again? Hmmmmmmmm.....:unsure:

[Jean]

What bugs me is how in the blue hell Walter KNOWS that Roland is in a loop. :lol:
well........ Walter may be part of a more innermost, more intimately interconnected ka-tet than Eddie-Jake-Susannah... the ka-tet that binds together him and Roland only, like Roland was drawing on the ground in the Waste Lands... (see-saw)... so he is Roland's natural, one and only, indispensable Virgil in this hell of repetition... I know he, especially as Flagg, permeated the whole multiverse by his foul presence - but who ever said Roland didn't? Maybe they are both equally important for the fabrics of existence... and when Roland finally finds his salvation and opens the door at the top (dies, I mean, just plain old dies), the whole existence will enter a totally new phase; or rather, for its homeostasis it will have to find itself another Roland and another Walter.

[Matt]

Is there a chance he could still Draw "Eddie" (and the rest) but not from that level of the Tower?

[Brainslinger]

Is there a chance he could still Draw "Eddie" (and the rest) but not from that level of the Tower?

Considering the absense of Susannah from the keystone earth (despite originating from another earth, remember the bit concerning the station?), and keystone Jake leading a life identical to our Jake (with minor changes like authorship of his choo-choo book) I think it's certainly possible.

I've got another theory or two explaining these circumstances however, but that'd be off thread.

[jayson]

Maybe they are both equally important for the fabrics of existence... and when Roland finally finds his salvation and opens the door at the top (dies, I mean, just plain old dies), the whole existence will enter a totally new phase; or rather, for its homeostasis it will have to find itself another Roland and another Walter.

Ding! Give the bear the prize. That's very very close to how I see things.

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif
::hopes the prize is edible::

I know you would like a little yin-yang flavor... http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_wink-1.gif Though, of course, here being "both necessary" doesn't mean "symmetrical", and the fact that Walter knows about the loop, - so kinda transcends some limits Roland always stays inside - somehow proves it... making Roland, not Walter, the main, essential guy of this big game, and Walter only a guide, a prop, an obstacle, a nuisance, whatever it takes to make this ka-tet working.

[lipgloss_and_revolver]

I loved the last book, but I'm really really sorry for Roland.
Everyone he ever loved either dies or goes away.
The part where Susannah was saying goodbye .. http://www.fanforum.com/images/smilies/bawl.gif http://www.fanforum.com/images/smilies/bawl.gif http://www.fanforum.com/images/smilies/bawl.gif

Maybe its just me but IMO he deserves something. And it seems to me that the loop is punishment. :(



I'm with you guys too regarding the theory that that wasn't Roland's first time reaching the Tower. He's old. Maybe hundreds of years.




(The more I think about this & time loops, the more nervous I am for Lost. LOL)

[Ka-tet]

Well guys, hi!
IOne more thing, when Roland reaches the final room, there is nothing waiting for him bacause there is nothing left for him... the search of the tower was his only goal in his life, could it be that the tower gave him what He desired most?

Its great to see a new face(not literaly obviously:ninja:) around the fourms.

Thats a very interesting point you made sai, and its somthing ive never though about. But i disagree, i belive Roland could not reach the room at the top because he was not ready(in this loop). Because at the start of that loop all roland cared about was the tower. To reach the room at the top he must repent for his sins and change the loop. I belive this starts at jericho hill was it? Roland must take the horn from cuthbert. Assuming he can do this he can prevent the massicre at tull and not drop Jake under the mountains.

[Matt]

I'm totally on board with Jean's line of reasoning. I think the Roland at the beginning of the newest loop so a profoundly changed Roland from another of the infinite possibilities of the Tower.

Walter is the Tower's prop to give the guy a chance to cry off.

This is why I have always considered him more friend than foe.

There is also a line of thought that says Judas was the same. Without the betrayal and all that...but the discussion is for another thread.

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gif

maybe Walter isn't big enough to be a full Judas... but, on the other hand, Judas wasn't much to speak of if taken separately, either.



I was thinking more along the lines of an angel... that would explain both supernatural abilities Walter has, and him being immensely less important than Roland (= man)

[Leithian]

My own personal mind twist on things is that Susan never died and Jake or at least one representation of Jake is actually his son hense their connection.

We know that people who are born of any world other than world 19 can be reformed in other versions of earth. So my take is Susan on death appeared in another earlier time in a different timeline and gave birth to Jake. (This is assuming most people agree Rolands world is a post appocalyptic version of earth hense some time in our future). Perhaps Roland even knew this and somehow the act of leaving her to her peril seemed justified in the bigger picture.

I think the touch is strong in people who have been cycled through life more than once, Roland has a mild form, maybe he just hasnt replayed certain events enough times to have a strong enough sense of things yet, at least not all things.

On this latest cycle he remembers that the horn is important and picks it up. Surely he will remeber other things clearer this time around too.

I still believe the Tower to be a representation of his path to eternal rest. Until he completes his path correctly he is basically in purgatory. The top of the Tower was a coffin shape, his final resting place. Perhaps without a successor (ie Jake) he can never end the quest. I also think not only does Roland have to make the right choices but so does his Ka-tet.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I also feel Steven King left the door open to re visit Roland. After all many of his books tie into this one, and after he decided to carry on writing and not retire, perhaps he felt he would now have an option to return.

[Matt]

(This is assuming most people agree Roland (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=706)s world is a post appocalyptic version of earth hense some time in our future)

Its an interesting theory but I don't believe the above at all.

Welcome to the site, its great to meet you.

[Seppe-sai]

Looking back, I think the most important piece of information given in the entire series is when Roland tells the ka-tet that in his world, even events of the past are in shift. This is emphasized when Roland returns to the desert with the horn, even though it was lost much earlier at Jericho Hill. I've always thought it was the Tower's reward to Roland for his growth during this last cycle. As was said earlier, it could be seen as a symbol of Roland needing a ka-tet to lead when he reaches the Tower. I don't necessarily agree with this but it is an interesting viewpoint.

[Seppe-sai]

I think the touch is strong in people who have been cycled through life more than once

I agree here, as evidenced by Eddie naturally picking up horse riding even though it was his 'first' time in WotC


On this latest cycle he remembers that the horn is important and picks it up. Surely he will remeber other things clearer this time around too.

I disagree with this; as I said above, his decision to pick up the horn comes much earlier at Jericho Hill, so it has already been made when he has the horn at the end of DT7.

[SpanishDiablo]

No true ending... when Roland arrives with the horn, then, what? Does he find all of his loved ones and lives forever in that afterlife? Does he become God? Does he simply sleep the dreamless sleep, finally in rest? Does he return to Jericho Hill to save his very first ka-tet?
I'd have preferred an ending where Oy would have finally been discovered to be Gan, with full sincerity.

[Leithian]

(This is assuming most people agree Roland (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=706)s world is a post appocalyptic version of earth hense some time in our future)

Its an interesting theory but I don't believe the above at all.

Welcome to the site, its great to meet you.


Hmm I thought it was a logical leap seeing as the machinery is not yet being made by the corporation in our when, thus facilitating the way to stop it ever coming into being in the first place. The mutations etc I took to be part of the post radiation damage to wild life. I'm interested in what other people think.

Thanks for the welcome.

[Wuducynn]

No true ending... when Roland arrives with the horn, then, what? Does he find all of his loved ones and lives forever in that afterlife? Does he become God? Does he simply sleep the dreamless sleep, finally in rest? Does he return to Jericho Hill to save his very first ka-tet?
I'd have preferred an ending where Oy would have finally been discovered to be Gan, with full sincerity.

Type out your preferred ending and then when you get to the point that you don't like in DT7 switch over to your ending.

[Dinh]

I must say i pretty much enjoyd the end of TDT...but now that is over...it all feels like it is over, before it even began...i want MORE...:rose: :cowboy: :shoot:

[The Lady of Shadows]

I must say i pretty much enjoyd the end of TDT...but now that is over...it all feels like it is over, before it even began...i want MORE...:rose: :cowboy: :shoot:

that's the beauty of a re-read! :excited:

[Pere Callahan]

First of all, I'm glad that I found this site. I was a member of dt.net for several years and never got to comment on the ending. Just in case, SPOILERS ABOUND!



























I hated the ending originally. I thought that my main complaint was the "loop" ending. After my second reading (which I have found to always be more clear headed) I discovered that it's not the ending that drives me nuts after all. If there was ever a man who deserves purgatory, then roland is that man. His pride is his ultimate undoing. However, I do still have major complaints (most of which you have heard before)
1) The shift in tone beginning in book 5. This is difficult to explain, but having read the first four books perhaps six times in the years precluding the release of Wolves, this always strikes me. The characters suddenly becoming aware of themselves struck me as hokey, especially considering this was not foreshadowed earlier (I refuse to count the revised gunslinger because it was written to fill in gaps after the book was completed) I still loved Wolves, but I started geting an uneasy feeling.
2) Mordred- a weak, weak character. I hate to sound so negative, butI thought he was pathetic. His entrance ate up a whole book (SOS) and I grw tired of Mia within a few pages. Although i didn't like this, I kept my howls to a minimum at this point. BUT............
3) The death of Walter by Mordred!!!!! This is where I felt king committed heresy. AWFUL! A poorly fleshed out weak character such as this? Never
4) Crimson King- I cant say any more than what I've already read here.
5) The ending I would have like to have seen would have roland finding walter at the top of he tower, where they have "the last palavar" As usual, walter speaks in riddles, further maddening Roland. He reads Rolands future again (in a very vague fashion,again) and presents Roland with a final choice. There are two doors, and Roland gets to choose. One says "Redemption" and this door can open to Roland at any previous point in his journey with his current knowledge. He can redeem himself. The second door says "Resolution" and Walter tells him he may find the answers he seeks or he may find nothing at all. Roland chooses the second door and finds himself in the desert where he started. Why? Because his task was never to reach the tower, it was to save the beams! His pride caused him to deserve no better than purgatory. There are a million other acceptable endings for me....I just want walter to play a part.
Sorry for the long windedness and the inserion of my own ending, but i am thrilled to find another great site after dt.net vanished.

[Matt]

Nice to see you Pere...glad you finally got a chance to put that out there.

Welcome to the site. :thumbsup:

[Letti]

Sorry for the long windedness and the inserion of my own ending, but i am thrilled to find another great site after dt.net vanished.

And we are thrilled to have you here.
Share all your thoughts and feelings with us - that's why we all are here. :rose:

[Harrald]

I've had problems with the way King has ended his books for years. "IT" Being a prime example of a lazy ending. I learned to appreciate the ride and not the destination with King.

The "Stop here" ending was the ending for people that haven't made peace with that.

[stone, rose, unfound door]

I've had problems with the way King has ended his books for years. "IT" Being a prime example of a lazy ending. I learned to appreciate the ride and not the destination with King.

It's true that the ending in It was a shame really. I don't think it compares to the ending of the DT series since I found the ending of the series was the best ever. Could you be more precise then on what you didn't like much with the ending?



2) Mordred- a weak, weak character. I hate to sound so negative, butI thought he was pathetic. His entrance ate up a whole book (SOS) and I grw tired of Mia within a few pages. Although i didn't like this, I kept my howls to a minimum at this point. BUT............
3) The death of Walter by Mordred!!!!! This is where I felt king committed heresy. AWFUL! A poorly fleshed out weak character such as this? Never
Your points are interesting and your ending is pretty brilliant, but I can't agree on the fact that Walter had to play a part: after all, he's just another villain. People love him but he's no big deal, he was always full of himself and that's why he lost to Mordred, who is NOT a weak character but just a lonely child that has been abandoned by the only father he knew he had and since his other father's gone mad, he can't rely on anyone from the moment he was born. I thought he was the most saddening character in this whole story and no one likes him because he killed some kind of evil creature that no one would like in real life.
Maybe you can tell me why so many people worship Walter. Alright, he's witty and he's skilled, but he's totally wicked!

[Brice]

He's a horrible person, but a great character. I guess everyone just kind of grew to know him throughout the series (and other books as Flagg). In a way he was as much a part of our lives as the ka-tet was. But, I don't hate Mordred myself. I think he would have been a stronger and better accepted character if he'd been introduced earlier in the series and developed more.

[stone, rose, unfound door]

He's a horrible person, but a great character. I guess everyone just kind of grew to know him throughout the series (and other books as Flagg). In a way he was as much a part of our lives as the ka-tet was. But, I don't hate Mordred myself. I think he would have been a stronger and better accepted character if he'd been introduced earlier in the series and developed more.

I think if Mordred had been expanded upon, he'd really have been a great character. Anyway, I still like him a lot and I feel sympathy for him (this does NOT happen often!). About Flagg/Walter, I guess people want to believe that they knew him, but in the end, we just didn't. He was a fleeting character from the beginning to the end and riddled with us as well as with Roland. His real life as told when he dies is way too lame for me to believe so I still think this was some sort of trick :) But still, why such a big fanclub for such an obnoxious character? I mean, I understand that people like him, but why hate Mordred for killing him? It was Flagg's fault for thinking he was way better than the son of the CK and Roland, after all!

[Brice]

Hmm. I don't know. Mordred didn't bother me so I can't say why people hate him so.

[Brainslinger]

For me it wasn't so much that Mordred killed Walter as when, i.e. so early in the book. Especially when we consider a) Mordred was a newborn at the time and b)there is what I -perhaps erroneously- consider foreshadowing in 'Wizard and Glass', i.e. that note on the tree suggesting that if they don't forsake their quest he'll meet them in Thunderclap. I say 'erroneously' since Walter obviously had no knowledge of what would happen to him at the time. I think, considering his past antics, I felt that the note had an element of prophesy.

I was wrong.

It was certainly anticlimactic that's for sure.

[Empath of the White]

@ Pere Callahan

I'm glad someone else noticed that change in tone. I didn't even have to wait for the fifth book and I noticied it. I guess I was expecting the ka-tet to finally enter End-World.

I'm a bit mixed on the ending myself. "Ending", as in the last 3 books (really seem like one long book to me) as whole, I didn't especially care for. I almost felt as if we were reunited with the "wrong characters." Callahan's story was interesting but after Black House and Eyes of the Dragon I felt Jack and Speedy (perhaps Sophie too) and Thomas Whitman, or some descendant of his, should've met the ka-tet. Also, I found myself wishing King had fleshed out End-World a bit more. Mordred's parentage, I felt, was overly complicated though going by information from Black House, I could see why he would be needed. Plus he seemed almost like a rushed job, though what development he did get later in the book was very well done.

"Ending" as in the final book I liked. It felt like a return to that tone from the earlier books. I loved the Dixie Pig, I enjoyed Algul Siento, and Empathica was very interesting. The Crimson King's state was understandable, as was the Ageless Stranger's death.

[Letti]

He's a horrible person, but a great character. I guess everyone just kind of grew to know him throughout the series (and other books as Flagg). In a way he was as much a part of our lives as the ka-tet was. But, I don't hate Mordred myself. I think he would have been a stronger and better accepted character if he'd been introduced earlier in the series and developed more.

I think if Mordred had been expanded upon, he'd really have been a great character. Anyway, I still like him a lot and I feel sympathy for him (this does NOT happen often!). About Flagg/Walter, I guess people want to believe that they knew him, but in the end, we just didn't. He was a fleeting character from the beginning to the end and riddled with us as well as with Roland. His real life as told when he dies is way too lame for me to believe so I still think this was some sort of trick :) But still, why such a big fanclub for such an obnoxious character? I mean, I understand that people like him, but why hate Mordred for killing him? It was Flagg's fault for thinking he was way better than the son of the CK and Roland, after all!

You are speaking from my heart.
For my part I think Mordred was a good character however first time I met him I couldn't stand him. I didn't need much time to be able to see how powerful complex still innocent he was. That's why I liked him.
About Flagg... yeah, he should have been much more careful. How could he think that he would be able to control or lead the CK's son?
Moreover I liked the way he died because it was sooo unusual. Most of the big characters have such great death.. they die during a big fight with a sword in their hands and stuff like that. I love that Flagg's death was this incredible and shocking.

[Wuducynn]

I think if Mordred had been expanded upon, he'd really have been a great character. Anyway, I still like him a lot and I feel sympathy for him (this does NOT happen often!). About Flagg/Walter, I guess people want to believe that they knew him, but in the end, we just didn't. He was a fleeting character from the beginning to the end and riddled with us as well as with Roland. His real life as told when he dies is way too lame for me to believe so I still think this was some sort of trick :) But still, why such a big fanclub for such an obnoxious character? I mean, I understand that people like him, but why hate Mordred for killing him? It was Flagg's fault for thinking he was way better than the son of the CK and Roland, after all!

You are speaking from my heart.
For my part I think Mordred was a good character however first time I met him I couldn't stand him. I didn't need much time to be able to see how powerful complex still innocent he was. That's why I liked him.
About Flagg... yeah, he should have been much more careful. How could he think that he would be able to control or lead the CK's son?
Moreover I liked the way he died because it was sooo unusual. Most of the big characters have such great death.. they die during a big fight with a sword in their hands and stuff like that. I love that Flagg's death was this incredible and shocking.

I strongly agree with both of you. King has mentioned why Walter screwed up in the end. He was very powerful indeed but also old, and too full of himself.

[BeDaN]

My main complaint with Walter after reading The Gunslinger Born was how he was shown to be able to use doors he made to travel to pretty much wherever he wanted. Now I don't own the complete graphic novel yet and I havn't read the other arcs yet so i'm not sure if he was bound by some rules and I'm not sure how much of a part King had in the writing of the comics, but if Walter yearned for the tower so badly, why not just make a doorway to it right away? And I also gotta agree with some of you out there, I didn't care much for how he died, I too would have liked to see a showdown with Roland. But in the end it is the way it is and I loved it.

[Wuducynn]

My main complaint with Walter after reading The Gunslinger Born was how he was shown to be able to use doors he made to travel to pretty much wherever he wanted. Now I don't own the complete graphic novel yet and I havn't read the other arcs yet so i'm not sure if he was bound by some rules and I'm not sure how much of a part King had in the writing of the comics, but if Walter yearned for the tower so badly, why not just make a doorway to it right away? And I also gotta agree with some of you out there, I didn't care much for how he died, I too would have liked to see a showdown with Roland. But in the end it is the way it is and I loved it.


Did you think that Walter even though he can make doors between worlds/times/places etc that he couldn't make a door to the Tower even if he wanted to?

[Letti]

My main complaint with Walter after reading The Gunslinger Born was how he was shown to be able to use doors he made to travel to pretty much wherever he wanted. Now I don't own the complete graphic novel yet and I havn't read the other arcs yet so i'm not sure if he was bound by some rules and I'm not sure how much of a part King had in the writing of the comics, but if Walter yearned for the tower so badly, why not just make a doorway to it right away? And I also gotta agree with some of you out there, I didn't care much for how he died, I too would have liked to see a showdown with Roland. But in the end it is the way it is and I loved it.

I don't think that Walter was powerful enough to make doors wherever he wanted to but even if he could I don't think he would have had guts to enter.

[Pere Callahan]

Could you be more precise then on what you didn't like much with the ending?


Maybe you can tell me why so many people worship Walter. Alright, he's witty and he's skilled, but he's totally wicked![/QUOTE]


Again, I hope you will permit my negativity towards King here ( I honestly love almost all of his works and still consider the Dt series my favorite)
Regarding Walter, I hate the way he died because how does the book begin (and end) The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. From sentence one, he is the main adversary. I suppose that a great deal of my initial love of the story came from the belief that Walter was Rolands archenemy and vice versa. Here is a character who is basically timeless and ageless, who basically helped destroy the world form the inside out (civils wars, almost surely nuclear wars, a basic mistrust amongst people), who is at least partially responsible for Roland having to leave Gilead, go to Mejis, watch his first love burn, then return home only to kill his mother. We also suspect Walter played a role in the death of Rolands father (and perhaps Cort) And yet a child who lacks the sense to not shit upon himself or eat poisoned meat takes him out easily? Just how easy was it for Roland to kill Mordred? Would it have been this easy for him to kill Walter? Who is the more worthy adversary, one with whom Roland owes in some way for nearly every tragic thing that has befelled him or the mudbutt plagued child who accomplished nothing besides killing the greatest villain King has ever created, in my opinion. End of rant # 1 (and understand that those of you who love Mordred, I respect that opinion as well)
Rant #2- I can't help but believe that the last three books were not what King intended. I think "On being 19" (the intro) proves this. The King who wrote the first four was a machine, yet plagued (like a great many of us) with addictions and the occasional lazy streak. He thought he could come back whenever he wanted and finish these books...and he was making a helluva lot more money off his more popular books.....and I think he lost the rest of the story somewhere along the way. In the meantime, the Tower addicts relentlessly wrote letters and started pissing him off. Then, the final blow.....he gets hit by the drunk driver, further pissing him off. And these elements (anger, frustration, bitterness) make their way into the last three books. The tone of the story completely shifts, he has to revise the original gunslinger, books such as Black House and Insomnia mislead Tower readers, further complicating matters. But what bugged me the most was after i finished the book, reading his "in your face" remarks near the end ( Don't drive to my house, .......) I found this section to be very condescending and filled with bitterness, almost as if he was saying "Here, you freaks, I finished your goddamned story. Now if you don't like it, go to hell". I'm sorry about the accident, but I wonder why it had to make its way into the story.
Rant over......and don't get me wrong, there are many parts of the last three books that I think are great. I just wish he could have saved the bitteness for another book.

[jayson]

But what bugged me the most was after i finished the book, reading his "in your face" remarks near the end ( Don't drive to my house, .......) I found this section to be very condescending and filled with bitterness, almost as if he was saying "Here, you freaks, I finished your goddamned story. Now if you don't like it, go to hell". I'm sorry about the accident, but I wonder why it had to make its way into the story.
Rant over......and don't get me wrong, there are many parts of the last three books that I think are great. I just wish he could have saved the bitteness for another book.

Dude, you're my new hero.

[Wuducynn]

I didn't take that as a bitter remark at all. Just a smart-ass one.

[Letti]

Again, I hope you will permit my negativity towards King here ( I honestly love almost all of his works and still consider the Dt series my favorite)
Regarding Walter, I hate the way he died because how does the book begin (and end) The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. From sentence one, he is the main adversary. I suppose that a great deal of my initial love of the story came from the belief that Walter was Rolands archenemy and vice versa. Here is a character who is basically timeless and ageless, who basically helped destroy the world form the inside out (civils wars, almost surely nuclear wars, a basic mistrust amongst people), who is at least partially responsible for Roland having to leave Gilead, go to Mejis, watch his first love burn, then return home only to kill his mother. We also suspect Walter played a role in the death of Rolands father (and perhaps Cort) And yet a child who lacks the sense to not shit upon himself or eat poisoned meat takes him out easily? Just how easy was it for Roland to kill Mordred? Would it have been this easy for him to kill Walter? Who is the more worthy adversary, one with whom Roland owes in some way for nearly every tragic thing that has befelled him or the mudbutt plagued child who accomplished nothing besides killing the greatest villain King has ever created, in my opinion. End of rant # 1 (and understand that those of you who love Mordred, I respect that opinion as well)

How was it so easy for Roland to kill Mordred?? Without Oy Roland would have died there.


I love the fact that Roland's only son killed Walter... I might be aperv but for me it's nice... and romantic. *hides behind the trees*
To sum up for me Mordred was a powerful character altought I was shocked to see how easy it was for him to kill Walter I had no doubt (not even for a second) that he had the power to eat him.
Anyway I think the older Mordred became the more power he lost. He was the strongest when he was that little baby. That's how I felt.

[Pere Callahan]

Good point. But as much as most of us love Oy, would he have been as much of a threat to walter? Mordred was weak and dying anyway. Roland actually kills him quite easily.

I've needed this debate for three years...there is some catharsis here

[Letti]

Good point. But as much as most of us love Oy, would he have been as much of a threat to walter?

I don't really understand you.
The world doesn't work this way. Let me give you an example...
I can kill the cockroach easily with my foot. The atomic bomb can kill me easily... there is no way to survive. But everyone knows that the only creature that can survive the atomic bomb IS the cocktoach.
If I follow your logic I shouldn't be able to kill the cockroach because it can survive the aromic bomb that can kill me.
I hope it makes some sense.. I will try to find a better example.

[Letti]

Or... I can kill the cobra with a gun but the combra can kill me as I am sleeping. So most of the time your death (or life) doesn't depend on your power but on your situation and luck.

[Pere Callahan]

I guess my general point is that from the first sentence of the book, Walter is Rolands ultimate adversary. Mordred has trouble controlling his bowel movements:P In reality, I would choose Walter to outsmart the brat. Also, his confrontation with Roland (if at happened at the very end) would further support the idea that "the ending is the same as the beginning"
I guess in the end some think Mordred is great, while others think him a waste.

[Letti]

I guess my general point is that from the first sentence of the book, Walter is Rolands ultimate adversary. Mordred has trouble controlling his bowel movements:P In reality, I would choose Walter to outsmart the brat. Also, his confrontation with Roland (if at happened at the very end) would further support the idea that "the ending is the same as the beginning"
I guess in the end some think Mordred is great, while others think him a waste.

I see your point but I can't agree I don't feel the same way.
Roland was a real loner at the beginning. He had nobody he loved nobody and he belonged to nobody. So I don't feel we needed Walter at the end to show the brutality and the reality of the loop.

[Richie]

I havent read the end yet:(

[Letti]

I havent read the end yet:(

In this case

YOU'D BETTER leave this thread (and section) immedaitely. Don't spoil your fun. :) I myself met some spilers before I finished the series and I was really angry with myself.

[Pere Callahan]

:lol:Um.....then now would be the time to leave this thread:beat:

I hope you were kidding:onfire:

[Letti]

He wasn't.

Pere - so good to have you here. I am following your posts all around the DT threads. :)

[Pere Callahan]

Thanks. I stumbled across the site a few days ago. I've got about four years worth of debating on the last book to catch up on. By the way, your points are well taken.

[alinda]

Dont worry he wasnt reading, he was cheating to get his 5 posts in , I am right here with him!:ninja:

[Cuthbert Heath]

is mordrid in anyway related to the spider in IT

[Pere Callahan]

I don't think so..others may have a different opinion

[Wuducynn]

is mordrid in anyway related to the spider in IT

Distant cousins. Both the Crimson King and Mordred are partly descended from The Great Ones who are shaped like insects and I believe It is a Great One too.

[BeDaN]

My main complaint with Walter after reading The Gunslinger Born was how he was shown to be able to use doors he made to travel to pretty much wherever he wanted. Now I don't own the complete graphic novel yet and I havn't read the other arcs yet so i'm not sure if he was bound by some rules and I'm not sure how much of a part King had in the writing of the comics, but if Walter yearned for the tower so badly, why not just make a doorway to it right away? And I also gotta agree with some of you out there, I didn't care much for how he died, I too would have liked to see a showdown with Roland. But in the end it is the way it is and I loved it.


Did you think that Walter even though he can make doors between worlds/times/places etc that he couldn't make a door to the Tower even if he wanted to?

That's what I mean, they kind of leave it to the imagination. Like I said I haven't finished the arcs yet so I'm not precise on what his capabilities were, that is if they were revealed at all.

[Wuducynn]

A lot of things in the Dark Tower series are left up to the imagination. Having every little detail spelled out and nothing left to mystery would be awfully boring.

[Letti]

A lot of things in the Dark Tower series are left up to the imagination. Having every little detail spelled out and nothing left to mystery would be awfully boring.

And it's impossible as well.
When you write down a sentence you open a door to the imagination in the reader's mind. If you write 10 sentences to explain the one before you give even bigger space to use the fantasy (because the new sentences open new doors).

[Gantoad]

I was both satisfied and dissatisfied. On one hand I find such an ending rather fitting for the nature of the story, with the wheel of Ka and the Tower of Gan. It's apropos. On the other hand, it means I don't get to read anymore of the series, and it leaves me feeling pretty unsatisfied. I want more; and I do not think the journey of Roland has even really begun.

[BeDaN]

Welcome to the party Gantoad

[stone, rose, unfound door]

I didn't take that as a bitter remark at all. Just a smart-ass one.

Ditto here.

[Jackie]

I'm pretty new here so sorry in advanced if this topic A) has been posted and discussed before or B) In the wrong section [I’m pretty sure this is where is goes though but if that isn't the case someone just please move it :)]

Ok well we all know Stephen King isn't that great with endings and he has said that him self. The ending to The Dark Tower is a love/hate relationship for me. I think that he should have left it as it was at first. [Roland shouts the names of all those who lives it costed for him to get there, walks in, and the door closes] I personally would have loved that. It would have left so many questions [and probably some angry readers] but it would have kept the mystery and what we envisioned at the top of the tower forever. I know he DID give us that option but i mean come on. After reading the whole series who was going to pass up the ending when it was right there in their hands? I know i couldn't. In another view the ending was good because it left it open for The Dark tower VIII. Though i do know not to get my hopes up. I'll just have to be content with The Gunslinger Born [Read that one], The Long Road Home [Didn't read that yet it's comming in the mail], and The Treachery for now.

Anyway i am curious to what other peoples opinions are on the ending. Did you like, it hate, love it? Was it what you were expecting? Were you expecting more? Were you disappointed? And anything else you have to say on the topic of the ending.

[Just a note: If we could please keep this thread focused specifically on the ending to The Dark Tower alone it would be greatly appreciated on account of i haven't gotten to reading all of Sai Kings books yet and I'm sure a few others haven't yet either. Thank you]

[KaLikeAWheel]

Jackie,

Welcome! :rose:

There's a pages long thread along with a poll on just this topic here: http://thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=376. Give it a read. It's a great thread full of fascinating points of view. Happy reading!:D

Donna

[Jackie]

Ok Donna, thank you i'll be sure to check it out :)

[Letti]

Jackie, welcome to the site. I hope we can have long palavers with you about everything.
I'm gonne move this thread to DT7 section and later (in some days) it will be merged with the other DTend thread.
(And don't be sorry about it, it's a nice big site, it's not easy to find threads. And we love merging. ;))

Anyway it's good to read your feelings about the end. I thik your perfect ending [Roland shouts the names of all those who lives it costed for him to get there, walks in, and the door closes] would have killed me. :D

[BeDaN]

Jackie, welcome to the site. I hope we can have long palavers with you about everything.
I'm gonne move this thread to DT7 section and later (in some days) it will be merged with the other DTend thread.
Anyway it's good to read your feelings about the end. I think your perfect ending [Roland shouts the names of all those who lives it costed for him to get there, walks in, and the door closes] would have killed me. :D

Amen to that.

[Letti]

Jackie, welcome to the site. I hope we can have long palavers with you about everything.
I'm gonne move this thread to DT7 section and later (in some days) it will be merged with the other DTend thread.
Anyway it's good to read your feelings about the end. I think your perfect ending [Roland shouts the names of all those who lives it costed for him to get there, walks in, and the door closes] would have killed me. :D

Amen to that.

:couple:

[KaLikeAWheel]

I know he DID give us that option but i mean come on. After reading the whole series who was going to pass up the ending when it was right there in their hands? I know i couldn't.

Ugh, I know!! I hate that! I'm entirely too curious to pass up reading the whole thing. King did that with another one of his books. (Not going into detail in case you haven't read it yet.) Like I am capable of not reading something that's just one page away. Pfffft! Sai King can be such a booger sometimes!! I still love him, though. :wub:

For the record, I felt somehow unsatisfied when I first finished reading The Dark Tower, but once I had time to ponder it, I decided I loved the ending.

Donna

[KaLikeAWheel]

I felt like I always feel after reading a book I love for the first time. I felt sorry it was over, and a bit sad because I can never again experience the newness of reading it for the first time, but mostly I felt like an era in my life was over. I started reading the series when The Gunslinger was first released to the mass market. I was practically still a kid when I started and as I read the last word for the first time I was a mother of three teenagers. :panic:

As for the actual last sentence, I've been using this internet handle since about 1996, so I gotta say I thought the ending was great! The moment I read it it just felt right and perfect to me. When I announced to my husband that I had finished, he said, "Good ending or bad ending," and my response was, "Only ending." ::sigh::

Donna

[Letti]

And what did he say after that, Donna? Your answer was quite interesting.

[KaLikeAWheel]

My husband hadn't read it yet, at the time, but later he said it was a "cop out". He and I agree to disagree on The Dark Tower Series and Stephen King in general. He didn't like anything in the series after The Waste Lands (I know, he totally blasphemes!!).:doh: He doesn't like "metafiction" (yeah, whatever!) :rolleyes: and he didn't like Wizard and Glass at all (heathen). :onfire: In fact, he says he, "hasn't liked most of what King's written since the mid 90's." :cry: I can hardly stand to look at him some days.:P


Donna

[BeDaN]

I spent a couple months reading the series in good chunks pretty much daily. When I closed book seven I just kind of sat there and said "Shit. . . now what?"

[alinda]

you had the perfect 1st line to do a re-read :lol:

[Jean]

yes...
wash... rinse... repeat (...)

[alinda]

:lol:

[BeDaN]

haha you speak true Sai

[alinda]

Sai King, was indeed very clever with this ending.

[Letti]

I think the ending has written itself and Sai King let it go.

[Ka-tet]

I would not have been satisfied with Roland shouting the names then walking into the tower. As you said Jackie who would pass up the ending with it right infront of them? Those of us who were satified with the doors closing behind roland, and on all of those who had followed him for so long.

[Adumbros]

truly, anyone who was pissed off by the ending really needs to delve more into king's work. i don't say i particularly liked the ending to DTVII, but it didn't really piss me off. if you read more of his works, it would make absolutely perfect sense to you why he did that.

as for DTVIII: what would be the point? to tell the whole sorry tale over again? As the finale of DTVII shows, the exact same events occur every time R. goes through the loop. Yes, he has the Horn this time (although this is never explained; i think that maybe every time he passes through the door atop the Tower he has another neglected artifact restored to him. What would happen after arriving at the Tower the way he was meant to is anyone's guess. Then again, who's to say that the Loop isn't a punishment for his audacity? After all, he's basically attempting to ascend into whatever Heaven he believes in. Maybe Gan is damning him for his sacrilege?)...but ne way...the only possible appendix would be to tell what happens this time in a short chapter. Personally, I'd leave it as is. The only thing I care to know now, and hopefully will have answered by the TDT comics, is what is so significant about the opening of The Gunslinger that that is the point Roland is always returned to. What about that moment is so potent as to be able to captivate whatever entity rules the Tower? There is an untold tale in that alone.

[Wuducynn]

Anyone truly pissed off at the end needs to light up a big juicy fattie and smoke it while being given an hour of fellatio or cunnilingus.

[Adumbros]

that works too. :D

[Brice]

Anyone truly pissed off at the end needs to light up a big juicy fattie and smoke it while being given an hour of fellatio or cunnilingus.

But shouldn't those who were not pissed off do the same, Matthew?

[Adumbros]

can't wait to get to Pitt, where you don't have to worry about catchin gonnosyphiherpales just from lookin at a female :rofl:

[Wuducynn]

Anyone truly pissed off at the end needs to light up a big juicy fattie and smoke it while being given an hour of fellatio or cunnilingus.

But shouldn't those who were not pissed off do the same, Matthew?

That was the assumption on my part, yes. :harrier:

[Brice]

:thumbsup:

[Gantoad]

I found it a most fitting conclusion for the tone and content of the story. However, I was unhappy with it as a conclusion for the story itself; rather I should say any conclusion is bad, because it is the end of the writing.

[Kingfanatic260]

I was satisfied with the ending but a little disappointed. I really liked Roland and I hated to see it end that way for him. I know King isn't big on endings but I felt like he could have done better.

[aberrios75]

I just finished it yesterday, my co-worker had read it a few years ago and was anxious to get my opinion on the ending. Before I do that I wanted to preface this with what I felt towards King in a previous work.

Some time ago Storm of the Century was made for TV, I haven't read the book yet so I may be off in my critique of it but I was thoroughly disappointed in how it ended. Fast forward to yesterday afternoon and that same feeling came back to me along with a WTF face. I felt a little empty and even went back to read the last few pages again just to make sure I wasn't day dreaming and alas it stayed the same. I think eventually I will come to terms with it, but a dang HORN. Reminds me of a video game that you invest hours and days into and you get to the end only to realize that you forgot to do something really really important and cannot complete the game without it and the thought of starting over just makes you want to slap yourself silly lol.

Enough with the negative, I really enjoyed the whole series, each book and every character. My wife started reading it as well and we have been enjoying it, although I am pretty sure she will be more fired up about the ending then I am. Long live Oy and I would have just liked a peak into what was in the top room of the tower, you know just give me something!!! lol:onfire:

[ladykatherine]

I laughed.

I couldn't believe I read it--I KNOW I KNOW!! I shouldn't have, considering I haven't finished the series yet. But IN MY DEFENSE: I was talking about it with a co-worker over the summer and said something about how the ending was probably going to end up pissing me off with some kind of time thing (because as all my friends know, I stress majorly when it comes to time travel/time changes/etc), and he just gave me this look. I was all upset then so I HAD to look. IM SORRY!! DON'T HURT ME!! My mom was really mad at me too. I was really upset for like ten seconds afterwards and ended up crying and laughing on my bedroom floor. It was one of those moments. So I went downstairs, and finished The Wastelands.

To me, the ending is relatively unimportant anyways. In this kind of series, there are only a few ways it could have ended, and knowing Stephen King, I wasn't going to like it (as in it being happy and i wouldn't be stressed, not that i don't like his endings!). I think the journey of the story is way more important and would probably freak out more if someone told me (or let me guess) at what'll happen. My mom was surprised I'm still more than excited to read the books, and I guess it's because I don't hold the ending as the final word in my mind. There is so much more to learn from the DT series than just what happens after finding the Tower. That's just me, of course.

But still...don't kill me.

[Wuducynn]

I laughed.

I couldn't believe I read it--I KNOW I KNOW!! I shouldn't have, considering I haven't finished the series yet. But IN MY DEFENSE: I was talking about it with a co-worker over the summer and said something about how the ending was probably going to end up pissing me off with some kind of time thing (because as all my friends know, I stress majorly when it comes to time travel/time changes/etc), and he just gave me this look. I was all upset then so I HAD to look. IM SORRY!! DON'T HURT ME!! My mom was really mad at me too. I was really upset for like ten seconds afterwards and ended up crying and laughing on my bedroom floor. It was one of those moments. So I went downstairs, and finished The Wastelands.

To me, the ending is relatively unimportant anyways. In this kind of series, there are only a few ways it could have ended, and knowing Stephen King, I wasn't going to like it (as in it being happy and i wouldn't be stressed, not that i don't like his endings!). I think the journey of the story is way more important and would probably freak out more if someone told me (or let me guess) at what'll happen. My mom was surprised I'm still more than excited to read the books, and I guess it's because I don't hold the ending as the final word in my mind. There is so much more to learn from the DT series than just what happens after finding the Tower. That's just me, of course.

But still...don't kill me.

You're mother is a smart lady. To even partially understand the ending you should read the entire series. I disagree about the ending not being important. Especially in the Dark Tower series.

[ladykatherine]

I know, it's probably really important! But I honestly usually don't appreciate endings of anything, which I'm assuming is a really big personal problem of mine. I'll let you know if I change my mind when I really finish it, but I have a feeling I won't. I can't help the way I see things.

[Matt]

And you shouldn't. If you can keep from going all the way, there are several people who probably wish the same.

[stone, rose, unfound door]

I want to reread the last line as though it was the first time and I think it's been a long enough time for that! :) I'm so glad I'm going to start on the journey again tonight I guess!

[stone, rose, unfound door]

I know, it's probably really important! But I honestly usually don't appreciate endings of anything, which I'm assuming is a really big personal problem of mine. I'll let you know if I change my mind when I really finish it, but I have a feeling I won't. I can't help the way I see things.

As All_Hail said, the ending this time is really important and you may be a little disappointed by the story knowing how it all ends already. (You should listen to him, he's a very wise man!) But if you can not be bothered by the fact that you know the end, go on and tell us how you'll have felt when you finish it! I guess everyone wants to know how we all felt finishing this masterpiece!

[L]

Ka is a wheel. I enjoyed it fully and loved every minute no matter how sad many bits happened in the end. plus since it was all writen in a book it did make sense. every time some picks up the book Roland has just opened that final door and the man in black has just fled across the desert and the gunslinger follows. Ka

[SigTauGimp]

The very first time I finished it, I was amazed....and, to be honest, I almost didn't go past the coda...the way that sai King "talked", that seriousness in his "voice", nearly had me convinced. But I just grit my teeth after a minute or so, and continued. I'm very glad I did. I agree with most others in this thread, both in the fact that I believe that it was the "right" ending, and that to me it was almost more about the journey, rather than the destination. I read the last line in the series, and (honestly) picked up The Gunslinger. I then re-read the whole thing, but replacing certain moments in my head, considering the ending. =D That second read through was almost as fun as the first, as in my head I had a feeling of contentment. Thinking that the Horn of Eld was there the whole time was almost like having an amazing fan fiction going on, with sai King helping with the whole "writing" part.:P

[John_and_Yoko]

I know the feeling, only I didn't go as far as you did....

I only read the first "subchapter" of Chapter 1 of The Gunslinger. I feared if I went further I'd get caught up and read the whole thing again (which wouldn't have been bad, but I had other things I wanted to read, some of which I'm glad I DID read).

Anyway, I intend to read it all again sometime next year. :)

[iamjacksgoat]

I just finished the book around a minute ago... I'm just so astounded that I had to come on here and see what other people thought. I feel slightly sad and empty, yet fulfilled. I don't know. It's just so weird to end this series, since I've been reading it for years. I'm young, but I started reading The Gunslinger a few years before King released the last few books. Now, I don't know what to do.

Noting the last line, I might be in for a re-read? Who knows.

[Letti]

I just finished the book around a minute ago... I'm just so astounded that I had to come on here and see what other people thought. I feel slightly sad and empty, yet fulfilled. I don't know. It's just so weird to end this series, since I've been reading it for years. I'm young, but I started reading The Gunslinger a few years before King released the last few books. Now, I don't know what to do.

Noting the last line, I might be in for a re-read? Who knows.

You will feel this way for awhile.
Thank you for sharing.
Hope to see you around more often. :rose:

[stone, rose, unfound door]

I just finished the book around a minute ago... I'm just so astounded that I had to come on here and see what other people thought. I feel slightly sad and empty, yet fulfilled. I don't know. It's just so weird to end this series, since I've been reading it for years. I'm young, but I started reading The Gunslinger a few years before King released the last few books. Now, I don't know what to do.

Noting the last line, I might be in for a re-read? Who knows.

You will feel this way for awhile.
Thank you for sharing.
Hope to see you around more often. :rose:

Have you tried reading the comics yet? That's good medicine for what you suffer from. And once more, Letti's right and it won't let go for a while but don't worry!

[iamjacksgoat]

Have you tried reading the comics yet? That's good medicine for what you suffer from. And once more, Letti's right and it won't let go for a while but don't worry!

Yes, I read the first set of comics. I haven't gotten to the second set yet. I think it will help me ease into life without the books, haha.

[Letti]

Have you tried reading the comics yet? That's good medicine for what you suffer from. And once more, Letti's right and it won't let go for a while but don't worry!

Yes, I read the first set of comics. I haven't gotten to the second set yet. I think it will help me ease into life without the books, haha.

It wasn't easy for any of us. ;)

[Wuducynn]

This pretty much covers how I felt and what I did after I read the last line in the book - YouTube - Julie Andrews The Hills Are ALive

[Brainslinger]

Ok, I've seen photos of you on another thread and that an, er, arresting >< image. That's the word. Yep.

I hope you dressed for the part too.

More pictures please.

[Wuducynn]

The dress was awfully tight. :(

[wiccangdess13]

Spoilers apply

I felt drained when I finished. I was shocked and overwhelmed at the ending. I was a little pissed off at the ending initially. I didn't think Roland deserved it. I remember feeling a deep sense of satisfaction and gladness that I had found the series. I felt like an honorary member of the ka-tet, if that makes any sense. Roland and the ka-tet are "real" to me, even though I realize its a work of fiction. They will be with me forever. I can't see the number 19 and not think of them. There are always things that jog my memory about them. My husband and I use phrases from the book all the time when we talk to each other.

I so agree with that Valkyrie. I was sad, angry and relieved when the book ended. Now I want a new version where the wrongs are righted and Jake, Eddie and Oy live to see the tower as do Cuthbert and Alain.

[Jackie]

At first I must admit I felt a bit of disappointment, but I think that was more because it was the last line of the last book, and as any true reader must know it's always so sad when you finsh the last book of a series, it's like saying goodbye to an old friend. But after thinking about it I liked the ending, I feel that this is one ending King did very well. One reason I really liked it, is because the way he ended it still left room for the readers imagination to finsh it themselfs. Because after reading it your left thinking how will it be differnt? What will happen now? and you start to imagin what will now happen to Roland on his journey in this loop, and how things may go different for him now that he has the horn of eld.

[flaggwalkstheline]

i was shocked and saddened, that said i thought it was an incredible ending, one of those ending that feels so TRUE so RIGHT, i think that this ending is so original that it will become a cliche when other writers use similar plot devices, remember cliches are often overused because they rang so true intially and i felt that the end of DT7 was the birth of a new one which is a rare and wonderous thing

[Chap]

I absolutely loved the ending.
I laughed, cheered, was in awe of the sheer genious of it all.

Was always worried about the ending for two reasons:
a. how can something like this end in a good way? (not talking about happy ending)
b. I saw briefly a comment somewhere online that readers were unhappy at the end

Loved it!

[ManOfWesternesse]

.....Was always worried about the ending for two reasons:
a. how can something like this end in a good way? (not talking about happy ending)
...


Yes! That certainly rings a bell with me!
I was often afraid of what the ending might be - and so happy when I saw what he'd done!

[Wuducynn]

I absolutely loved the ending.
I laughed, cheered, was in awe of the sheer genious of it all.

Was always worried about the ending for two reasons:
a. how can something like this end in a good way? (not talking about happy ending)
b. I saw briefly a comment somewhere online that readers were unhappy at the end

Loved it!

Yeah but did you go to the Austrian Alps and spin around singing a song, like I did?

[Chap]

I absolutely loved the ending.
I laughed, cheered, was in awe of the sheer genious of it all.

Was always worried about the ending for two reasons:
a. how can something like this end in a good way? (not talking about happy ending)
b. I saw briefly a comment somewhere online that readers were unhappy at the end

Loved it!

Yeah but did you go to the Austrian Alps and spin around singing a song, like I did?
Only for a minute or two :panic:

the hills certainly were alive with the
loop of Roland

[Wuducynn]

No need to put the spoiler tags in there, this is the Dark Tower book forum, it's assumed you have read the book or if you're poking around in here you will be spoiled. :D

[Jean]

I absolutely loved the ending.
I laughed, cheered, was in awe of the sheer genious of it all.
That's the closest to what I felt. I cried a little, too, but bears always do when they are really deeply touched.

[RiseofDespair]

I felt... lost in a way. Todash, if you will.

[Ste Letto]

I was disappointed with the ending.

I can accept the whole circular thing, but there were images/ideas in my head that didn't come about.

I felt an ownership of the fantasy.

One image I had was of a vast number of alternate Rolands all storming the inside of the tower and battling their way to the room at the top. An immense firefight against an unseen enemy that ends with only the Roland we have known to enter the room at the top.

[razz]

I'm sorry but what is an "offician"?

[Wuducynn]

A misspelling of the word "official" I'm guessing.

[razz]

26 pages and nobody caught that yet?

[Jean]

26 pages and nobody caught that yet?
No, it has only recently been renamed. I have fixed it, thank you for vigilance!

[John_and_Yoko]

26 pages and nobody caught that yet?
No, it has only recently been renamed. I have fixed it, thank you for vigilance!

Not to be a nitpicker, but it's still missing an I....

*flees before he's crucified*

[Wuducynn]

It was Lisa that made this thread. SHE is the one that shall be crucified.

[Letti]

I was disappointed with the ending.

I can accept the whole circular thing, but there were images/ideas in my head that didn't come about.

I felt an ownership of the fantasy.

One image I had was of a vast number of alternate Rolands all storming the inside of the tower and battling their way to the room at the top. An immense firefight against an unseen enemy that ends with only the Roland we have known to enter the room at the top.

I think we can get only disappointed if we expect things we have in our head really hard to appear in a book.


It was Lisa that made this thread. SHE is the one that shall be crucified.

It was me who renamed it.
Cry your pardon.

[BoogerSnax]

Finished it last night.

Am conflicted.

Not so much with the actual ending, but the overall book as a whole, so that aspect probably is dealt with in another thread. :orely:

I think it's an ending that shows that even King himself didn't want to have to write an ending.
However, as it was mentioned at the very end, Roland had the horn, and he knew he would luild his fire upon the remains left by Walter, not just the man in black. So, it leaves open the door to imagine that he is embarking upon his final quest, but it also feels ambigious and contrived.

All in all though, ending it on a Sunday night, and waking up Monday, feeling "lost" because there is no quest to read about, I have to fight the urge to pick up book 1 again and simply start over, as that, I think, is the point of it all. We all want the quest to continue.

[BoogerSnax]

I was disappointed with the ending.

I can accept the whole circular thing, but there were images/ideas in my head that didn't come about.

I felt an ownership of the fantasy.

One image I had was of a vast number of alternate Rolands all storming the inside of the tower and battling their way to the room at the top. An immense firefight against an unseen enemy that ends with only the Roland we have known to enter the room at the top.

I think we can get only disappointed if we expect things we have in our head really hard to appear in a book.


It was Lisa that made this thread. SHE is the one that shall be crucified.

It was me who renamed it.
Cry your pardon.

I was getting nicely buzzed as I was finishing the book last night, and had ideas on coming back on here to the thread entitled "Roland at the McDonald's", as I had been avoiding it due to the nature of it dealing with the actual ending itself. However, I couldn't find the damn thing. Is this it, in renamed form? :doh:

[Tatts4Life]

When I finished the book I found it really hard to pick up any other SK book and read it. I was reading " From a Buick 8" for 3 months and only got probably 30 pages in. I put it down and started reading other authors that had books I was wanting to read. Just this last month I picked up the Talisman and started reading that.

[BoogerSnax]

Another thing. And one that had me almost throwing the book across the room, was the Crimson King, manifested as a petulant old man, stuck on a balcony, with a crate of grenades. :scared:

After all this time and all these miles. The death. The heartbreak. The visions of a tower that looks different in each of our minds. A tower, seen in a painting with a red "presence" on one of the "balconies".
And it comes down to being literally a cranky old man, in a red robe, with grenados, locked out on a balcony.

As a topper, this mighty presence is merely "erased" away.
Truth be told, I feel robbed by his approach to the tower. It wasn't a mystical awakening. It was literally being trapped out on the street, while and old man screams at him to stay off his lawn. :wtf:

[Wuducynn]

Another thing. And one that had me almost throwing the book across the room, was the Crimson King, manifested as a petulant old man, stuck on a balcony, with a crate of grenades. :scared:

After all this time and all these miles. The death. The heartbreak. The visions of a tower that looks different in each of our minds. A tower, seen in a painting with a red "presence" on one of the "balconies".
And it comes down to being literally a cranky old man, in a red robe, with grenados, locked out on a balcony.

As a topper, this mighty presence is merely "erased" away.
Truth be told, I feel robbed by his approach to the tower. It wasn't a mystical awakening. It was literally being trapped out on the street, while and old man screams at him to stay off his lawn. :wtf:

I've re-read the scene you're speaking of many times and I simply don't see where you are coming from. Here is my take on it. "Merely" erased away? You should read the whole scene again, it was a little more than that.

http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showpost.php?p=72794&postcount=9

[Tatts4Life]

My biggest gripe is how Walter died. I was expecting him to die in some big ass fight with Roland. Not by a hungry ass spider kid. But other then that I thought it was a great book

[Wuducynn]

So you're biggest gripe was from expectations you had building up. My biggest gripe has nothing to do with my expectations but a plot hole of how all of Blue Heaven weren't expecting and ready for the gunslingers when Finli o'Tego was notified of their arrival in Calla Bryn Sturgess by Slightman.

[Remington]

Didnt he only kill 1 half of the CK? Isnt there another one in another dimension or something like that? Wont the CK just find someone else to possess? If he didnt go back who would be the one to save the tower? I personally hope he keeps doin' what he's doin' until the fabricated beams break on their own.

[Brainslinger]

Didnt he only kill 1 half of the CK? Isnt there another one in another dimension or something like that? Wont the CK just find someone else to possess?

I don't think Los is possessed by the Crimson King so much as an incarnation. By that, I mean, it is the Crimson King's own body, although I think he is more than that. I have seen that theory before though, and it's a good one. (Actually it's more than a theory isn't it?
Insomnia spoiler:
Didn't the madman rave about him? I'm not sure he was quite right.. or at least I think King's view of the Crimson King changed over time, but I am sure that he has been behind the scenes influencing events in many worlds. And indeed he may have possessed people like Herod from time to time, but I don't think Los is such a person.

And I agree, I doubt he is gone for ever, even if he doesn't cycle like Roland.

When he was wiped out, it was strongly suggested that he was sent to todash space, rather than no longer existing. And those eyes that were left behind still stare malevolently at the world... I agree that he is well capable of possessing someone though.


If he didnt go back who would be the one to save the tower?
By 'he' do you mean The Crimson King or Roland? I think the loop pertains to Roland alone, and yes when he goes back he'll need to save the Tower again. And yes Roland would probably encounter the Crimson King again in the past (but I'm not sure about that. If the Crimson king is at the Tower, the axle of time and space, then doesn't he exist in all times? So if that's the case is he now just a pair of eyes in all times? I'm probably overcomplicating things though.)


I personally hope he keeps doin' what he's doin' until the fabricated beams break on their own.

I don't think the beams themselves are fabricated, just that machines were created to take over the running of them. I really got the impression from Wolves of the Calla onwards that the beams are the same magical beams that have always existed though. And now they're on the mend and the roses and the Tower are running them again.

[Billy-Bumbler]

I don't really get the ending... Why does the whole universe have to restart every time a gunslinger forgets something. I mean, what's in it for Gan/The Tower/Whatever it is that restarted the universe

[jayson]

There's nothing definitive indicating the universe itself resets. There are many interpretations of exactly what happens to Roland on the metaphysical level, but it isn't necessary to read it as the whole universe hitting rewind.

[Brainslinger]

There's nothing definitive indicating the universe itself resets. There are many interpretations of exactly what happens to Roland on the metaphysical level, but it isn't necessary to read it as the whole universe hitting rewind.

That's how I saw it too. The whole universe dosn't reset, it's just Roland is sent back in time. His actions can affect the timeline differently*... but that's something else.

*Although I think most of the changes in the timeline are pretty small. Most pertain to Roland and his ka-tet, and are gradual, incremental in nature.

[jayson]

That's how I saw it too. The whole universe dosn't reset, it's just Roland is sent back in time. His actions can affect the timeline differently*... but that's something else.

That's certainly one possibility. I also see as valid the position that Bev Vincent put forth in one of the threads about Roland's cyclical situation that it may not be so much Roland being "sent back in time" as it is Roland being sent to another level of the Tower entirely where the possibilities of the events of The Gunslinger are still in front of him. (I apologize to Bev if I summarized that incorrectly)

Perhaps my favorite aspect of the ending as written is that King never specified one way or another, leaving all of these possibilities on equally valid footing. It's the speculation and theorizing I enjoy the most. :)

[Brice]

That's how I saw it too. The whole universe dosn't reset, it's just Roland is sent back in time. His actions can affect the timeline differently*... but that's something else.

That's certainly one possibility. I also see as valid the position that Bev Vincent put forth in one of the threads about Roland's cyclical situation that it may not be so much Roland being "sent back in time" as it is Roland being sent to another level of the Tower entirely where the possibilities of the events of The Gunslinger are still in front of him. (I apologize to Bev if I summarized that incorrectly)

Perhaps my favorite aspect of the ending as written is that King never specified one way or another, leaving all of these possibilities on equally valid footing. It's the speculation and theorizing I enjoy the most. :)

Maybe I read too much into it, but this line has often made me think similarly to the position of Bev's you suggested.


He had progressed through the khef over many years, and had reached perhaps the fifth level. At the seventh or eighth, he would not have been thirsty; he could have watched his own body dehydrate with clinical, detached attention, watering its crevices and dark inner hollows only when his logic told him it must be done. He was not seventh or eighth. He was fifth. So he was thirsty, although he had no particular urge to drink. In a vague way, all this pleased him. It was romantic.

[MonteGss]

I saw the ending as Roland "rewinding," not the whole universe. I also like the idea that this "rewind" is merely Roland going to another level of the Tower to begin again.

[child of ka]

I came to know all of them very well and I grieved for days after the series ended. I am not a crier or weepy, but I wept through out this book and at the end I wept for Roland. I have never had anything affect me this much.


hi all - i just finished the 7th book last night (for the first time) and feel 100% the same as Frisco did (does?) - i actually feel really down, somewhat depressed even. For a mere book (even though deep down i know now its much more than that - a real testiment to what Stephen King is capable of) to have this effect on me is really strange. i dont often get emotional over things such as these - im at a loss to explain it all really. I hope it passes soon though becuase it seems to be consuming my every thought :)

Having said that i am, on the other hand, really glad i found this site - i tried to get to sleep last night and could not (thinking about the book and the ending), so i ended up spending the majority of the night reading everyones thoughts on the book.

Regarding the horn - i have read some peoples posts about Roland being forever stuck in the cycle no matter what. I disagree with that. (i have to i think, for my own sanity) I think the horn resembles hope, hope & proof that he is able to change and is getting closer (albeit slowly) to finding peace at the top of the tower.

looking forward to reading more of your posts, a belated happy holidays to you all

[Arthur Heath]

Greetings Child of Ka. Go introduce yourself in the corresponding Introduce Yourself thread, located in the 'Way Station' area.
The members are friendly, the staff is knowledgeable (and equally as friendly) and it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance.

[The King of Kings]

I was completely enraged, haha. I hated how it ended. I felt I was cheated by the Flagg and CK deaths, and I was so pissed at how Roland was being forced to relive everything, again and again.

After a few days though and it really settled in, I felt a lot better about the ending, but I still don't really like the last moments of Flagg and CK

[Melike]

some saw no other possible way for it to end...
I am in this group and completely satisfied with the ending.
First of all it is a cruel and it makes the reader to think what happens after. And you can not decide if it is happy or unhappy.
I mean, If we think Tower is the deepest love of Roland, a loop will get them together again and again. And we can say it is a gift.
On the other hand we can easily say that Roland is living hell. He looses his love as soon as he gets it.
Another idea for the ending of such a great story, would be very shallow, in my opinion.

[CedRhetorick]

I finished this afternoon.

My initial reaction? I felt so much sorrow for Roland. I felt a sort of guilt for being able to remember the Tower while Roland's sinlge-minded desire(madness?) was, essentialy, for an unattainable goal.

I was..Sad...Filled with questions, mostly.. "well then, why this? or that?"

Then I remembered Oy and I cried. Sitting at my desk. He was my absolute Favorite!

Even now, the whole Saga is on my mind. I've been reading this site for the last couple hours. I hadnt allowed a spolier of any sort (well, one :arg:). Today, when I finished, i googled DT and here I am.




CR

[Letti]

I felt... lost in a way. Todash, if you will.


I was completely enraged, haha. I hated how it ended. I felt I was cheated by the Flagg and CK deaths, and I was so pissed at how Roland was being forced to relive everything, again and again.

After a few days though and it really settled in, I felt a lot better about the ending, but I still don't really like the last moments of Flagg and CK


I finished this afternoon.

My initial reaction? I felt so much sorrow for Roland. I felt a sort of guilt for being able to remember the Tower while Roland's sinlge-minded desire(madness?) was, essentialy, for an unattainable goal.

I was..Sad...Filled with questions, mostly.. "well then, why this? or that?"

Then I remembered Oy and I cried. Sitting at my desk. He was my absolute Favorite!

Even now, the whole Saga is on my mind. I've been reading this site for the last couple hours. I hadnt allowed a spolier of any sort (well, one :arg:). Today, when I finished, i googled DT and here I am.




CR

Hi there new friends.
Thank you for sharing your feelings with us.
Give yourself sometime to believe you have finished it after that I am sure you can find some interesting threads here.

[CedRhetorick]

Last night I had read someone's post stating that Roland moved on to the next level of the tower. This rang true with me. I would like to believe that Gan has many missions for Roland and his journey is never the same. Whos knows, maybe this trek across the desert Roland will find himself not even thirsty.

~CR

[Bumbler19]

my mind broke

I felt happiness, and sorrow, and happiness again.

Happiness I finally finished

Sorrow I finally finished....


SPOILER*********
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Happiness because i remember yesterday (i just finished the book about 20 minutes ago) I said that i almost don't want to finish... i want the journey to continue. to never end, to always read a long with Roland... and because of the loop ending... i can !!!

As well as know Roland mayhap see his friends again.

[Mad Man]

:(I felt sorrow and bitterness, sadness mostly. For i finished it :panic: Finishing a book rips off a piece from me and i can't really put the sorrow i went through in words so i'll pass the trying. But i was sad 'coz i knew that i won't be reading about my dear gunslinger anymore. :(

[Letti]

:(I felt sorrow and bitterness, sadness mostly. For i finished it :panic: Finishing a book rips off a piece from me and i can't really put the sorrow i went through in words so i'll pass the trying. But i was sad 'coz i knew that i won't be reading about my dear gunslinger anymore. :(

You know, the keyword is rereading. ;)

[Chap]

:(I felt sorrow and bitterness, sadness mostly. For i finished it :panic: Finishing a book rips off a piece from me and i can't really put the sorrow i went through in words so i'll pass the trying. But i was sad 'coz i knew that i won't be reading about my dear gunslinger anymore. :(

I know the feeling man, I had to go out and buy the comics straight after finishing DT7, had to have my fix :rock:
Now that I'm finished those (and waiting for the Treachery collection), I'm listening to DT on audio books.
Damn addiction!

[Letti]

:(I felt sorrow and bitterness, sadness mostly. For i finished it :panic: Finishing a book rips off a piece from me and i can't really put the sorrow i went through in words so i'll pass the trying. But i was sad 'coz i knew that i won't be reading about my dear gunslinger anymore. :(

I know the feeling man, I had to go out and buy the comics straight after finishing DT7, had to have my fix :rock:
Now that I'm finished those (and waiting for the Treachery collection), I'm listening to DT on audio books.
Damn addiction!

You mean sweet addiction, right? ;)

[Chap]

Yes of course, damn sweet addiction ;)
I tried to OD, but it only left me wanting more.:doh:

[Merlin1958]

To be honest the first time? Screwed. But after a while to contemplate it was the right way to go, sort of. I mean the way he ended it was good but, the way he ended or entered (or didn't enter) certain characters wasn't. Initially the ending pissed me off but I came to terms with it as SK did.

The elimination of certain characters (which has ALWAYS been sk's strength) disturbed me but the more I think on it the better

[EdwardDean1999]

I felt that the ending was great. That was my first impression, and still is. In my mind it was the best way to resolve the epic. It can be tragic or hopeful depending on who you ask. I incline to the later.

[Forspecial]

I don't think I'll ever forget when I read those last two pages...

I was in my grandparent's basement in Nebraska, my stepbrother and older brother (who introduced me to the series almost exactly one year before- ka is a wheel) were playing pool. My grandparents are very eclectic people, so naturally their basement is a plethora of pop culture and weirdness. My eyes grazed the last line, I burst into tears and threw the book as hard as I could against the opposite wall where it struck one of my grandma's many Big Mouth Billy Bass singing fish. I shouted a lot of profanity ("BULLSH*T! THIS IS BULLSH*T!) while my brother wailed "I'm sorry, misery loves company!"

I finally deigned to read SK's author note at the end and felt significantly better. Since then I've read Gunslinger thrice and come to terms with the ending.

[pixiedark76]

I was elated and a little sad when I read the ending. I was mostly sad because the book series was over. I actually cracked up laughing when I read the last line. I then thought that a lot of people would be pissed off about the ending. I was not upset at l, I thought that it was the perfect ending to the series. This was the perfect ending because Ka is a wheel!

[MetGrl57]

I was happy and sad and confused and exhausted all at the same time. I didn't get the closure I wanted, but I felt hopeful and hopeful is something I can live with :lol: besides without closure, room is left for interpretation which is kinda nice :)

[Chain BladeO9]

At first I felt upset,not really angry or pissed off but just wishing it could of ended differently. A few seconds later it really hit me that this was the end of the road ( Or the clearing at the end of the path) and I was sad. I was sad for a few weeks, then I realised much the same of what most ofyou here said- that this is the only way to end. I finished the books last November ( '08] and the Tower still has a hold on me.

[Lily-sai]

I've never read the ending. Didn't dare to, after my friend told me I'd be shouting, cursing and ending up to burn the book. And sai King clearly warns in Coda not to read further, doesn't he? =P But I think I'm going to read it one day. When I'm in really foul mood, mayhap. :P Then I will come here and cry. See you soon.

[Brice]

read it

[Letti]

I've never read the ending. Didn't dare to, after my friend told me I'd be shouting, cursing and ending up to burn the book. And sai King clearly warns in Coda not to read further, doesn't he? =P But I think I'm going to read it one day. When I'm in really foul mood, mayhap. :P Then I will come here and cry. See you soon.

Icredible.. incredible. :)
When did you stop at the Coda?

[Lily-sai]

Incredible, indeed. As I'm the kind of person who gets worried if that and that character will survive and peeks at the ending, sighing happily 'Oh yes, he/she will live', ye ken? But my friend's warning was quite forceful, indeed :D (he even used a few swearing words, if I recall correctly)
Here is where I stopped. 'Endings are heartless. Ending is just another word for goodbye.'

[Letti]

I see.. still absolutely unbelievable.
And when did you stop at the Coda? I mean how long has the real ending been waiting for you to be read?

[Lily-sai]

For a few months now. Let's see when I'll break and read it. Mayhap when I fly over to Denmark within a couple of weeks to see that aforementioned friend again, so there will be someone to comfort me while I'm crying. :) (I can be quite a drama queen sometimes..)

[Letti]

Huh, I don't like crying in front of others. I would never have been able to finish the book if anyone had been around me or even near me. I needed pefect silence and some kind of loneliness to be able to finish the book.

[Lily-sai]

We're the opposite again. :) Since I really want someone to discuss with me when I've read something that has a deep effect in me. I'm a very emotional person, and I love to share my emotions with other people. My family is quite a lot like Italians, gesturing and shouting, showing emotions openly. Unlike true Finns. ;) Will let you know how I managed the ending. Only 17 days to go! (or something..)

[alinda]

Lily, I am amazed truly!! I could never in a million years have stopped reading.
You simply must finish now my goodness what will power you have...amazing indeed!

[Lily-sai]

I've NEVER had willpower in my life. Not until now. :D
I just need a person who has read the books and fully understands them, beside me. I wish I had someone who had read Lord of the Rings when I was young, because it was quite lonely, having had the whole wonderful world only to myself. Most of my friends of that time thought reading was just for geeks, but luckily that has changed now. :)

[Letti]

We're the opposite again. :) Since I really want someone to discuss with me when I've read something that has a deep effect in me. I'm a very emotional person, and I love to share my emotions with other people. My family is quite a lot like Italians, gesturing and shouting, showing emotions openly. Unlike true Finns. ;) Will let you know how I managed the ending. Only 17 days to go! (or something..)

I need time to be able to talk about things (meanings, ideas, feelings) that touch me as much as this series did and does.
I finished the last book for awhile and there are still some parts I can't talk about yet... they are like a young green apple... it needs sunshine (time) to get red and ready.

I cannot wait to read your opinion about the ending.

[Jean]

read it
READ IT

[Lily-sai]

Now I've read it. I was SO heartbroken. Frido left me to read it alone and went to the other room. When I finished, I walked in shock to him and just stood there, with pale face and empty eyes. Thank Gan he was there for me, just came and hugged me tightly for a long time. I don't think I've yet quite recovered from the shock, so I will get back here later and express my thoughts about the ending more clearly.

So.. unfair! :(

[Mad Man]

Really unbelievable that you waited soooo long before finishing it.....

but now that you've finished it you can go all mad thinking about it *like i did* :panic:

[Lily-sai]

Yeah, I just wanted to wait till I was with Frido, because I knew he'd totally understand how I'd feel. Waited for two months.. I HAVE willpower, how amazing! :P

Indeed, I'll be thinking about it all over again and again and.. realising I'm again in the desert, watching the gunslinger to follow the man in black. aaaack. =P

[Chap]

I'm glad you read it, Lily. IMO this was the only way the DT could have ended, just perfect. It's the best ending of any book I have ever read, tbh.
:couple:

[candy]

lily -thats how i felt when i finished reading it, as though i too had gone back to the desert to chase the man in black!

mad man, know what you mean, you find yourself thinking about the ending at really strange times. tryin to make sense of it

i personally felt that way that you all seemed to have done, content that we had come to the end of a journey, frustrated to find that we had not indeed come to the end but we where just re starting it and sad that i had lost so many friends along the way.


the more i think about the ending though the more i am at ease with it. all along it was a book about a writer and his characters. and if you think about it - what does the reader do when he finishes a book? why he starts to re read it from the beginning and each time he finds subtle difference in each read, much as roland the character appears to find subtle differences (the horn)

[Lily-sai]

I'm glad you read it, Lily. IMO this was the only way the DT could have ended, just perfect. It's the best ending of any book I have ever read, tbh.
:couple:

Oh, I know, but I just feel too raw right now to appreciate the ending - but I think I will eventually. Sai King is a genius, that I got to admit.
*sobs on Chap's shoulder* :P

[Chap]

awww, there there.
*pats head*
The Ka-Tet will forever live in our minds, don't mourn them.
And Roland... well he will keep the world in balance, allowing us to write poems, songs and stories about people like him. ;)

[Spawn]

I was completely satisfied with the end. I love the way King puts the reader in the same position as Roland.
As I am sure you will remember (but not so sure I remember myself:P) Roland is confronted by the Tet Corporation about that althought he had already saved the Beams, he was willing to put the universe (or ALL the universes, for that matter) at risk in orther to see the Tower ( the whole prophecy about his guns and the Crimson King).
In the end of the book we have the same situation, but we are the protagonists. Roland has reached the Tower and Susannah is reunited with Jake and Eddie... pretty good end, isn't it? But yet we are willing to sacrifice it in order to see what is inside the Tower.
I think it was just brilliant.

(Sorry if there are any ortographic faults, but English is my second language)

[candy]

spawn, welcome to the site. your english is brilliant

i agree with your thoughts on this - both the reader and roland could have had a happy ending, but ka is a mistress that must be served and both had to push that last mile.

[bartonthegreat]

I kinda saw the last line coming too. PERFECT. Ka is a wheel my friends!

[Letti]

I am happy to see that more and more people like the ending. :)

[Melike]

I've never read the ending. Didn't dare to, after my friend told me I'd be shouting, cursing and ending up to burn the book. And sai King clearly warns in Coda not to read further, doesn't he? =P But I think I'm going to read it one day. When I'm in really foul mood, mayhap. :P Then I will come here and cry. See you soon.
I would prefer to commit hara-kiri, or else I would die slowly in pain, because of my curiousity.

Yeah, I just wanted to wait till I was with Frido, because I knew he'd totally understand how I'd feel. Waited for two months.. I HAVE willpower, how amazing! :P

Indeed, I'll be thinking about it all over again and again and.. realising I'm again in the desert, watching the gunslinger to follow the man in black. aaaack. =P
:couple: That is why I was so happy at the end of the book. I love chasing the man in black.:cyclops:

[Mad Man]

but i hope that you don't like losing everybody again during the quest :panic:

[Melike]

but i hope that you don't like losing everybody again during the quest :panic:

Yeah, really, I don't like losing Flagg again and again. :(

[pr0k]

Hello, this is my first time posting, due to having just finished the 7th book this morning.

As I read the 7th book, I had an overlying feeling of dread. Not just due to knowing the series would end, or even the touch getting to me a bit and knowing the tragedy each character would have.. but also because I knew nothing what I had expected (or wanted!) for Roland would happen.

At the end, I truly was happy without reading was King warned me not to. But I went on anyway, with that curious cat in my brain lapping away at my good sense. And after? I felt down. I have gone through out my day saddened, as if I could feel myself in Roland's place; a damned hell of cyclical loss.

But after some thinking, it came to me. This was always Roland's purpose. To protect the Beams, and the Tower, and to give his life completely to it, at any sacrifice. And as Roland opened that door, and showed me (standing right over his shoulder, just as ill feeling as he) the beginning of the 20th version of the same quest, I understood. That deep down, a part of Roland wanted this quest to continue forward as much I as still do.

He isn't a pawn, but a Gunslinger. Not forced, but choosing to climb that same Tower until everything has fallen in it's right place. No man, but Roland, could possibly have the bravery to move forward like he has. His only moment of weakness (true weakness), showing when Susannah finally walked through the door. You could sense his knowing that there would be only one more door, and that was his.


Hile to Roland, and Jake, and to Eddie, to Susannnah, and to Oy, (and even to King). The past 10 years have been special.

[ManOfWesternesse]

Well put pr0k.


The past 10 years have been special.
.. and if you're a re-reader (as many of us here are), there are special years ahead too.

[mdk101]

I tried to be as vague as possible with the post so as to not spoil anything.

To whoever bothers to answer:
1) Is this a full time reset, everything is reverted back to point a, the beginning of the gunslinger?

2) If it is not a full time reset<<< (key point), does that mean Roland has been drawing new people each time while the people he encounters go on to other worlds?

-OR-

Has this been a vicious cycle with the same outcome of eddie/jake/oy dying and susannah going off to live in the fake New York? until this revolution of ka with roland's possession of the horn...

[Letti]

Welcome to the site, mdk101. :rose:
I am sure if you look around you will find lots of great threads and even more answers to your questions.
For my part I think:
Roland didn't go back in time but he has to repeat his quest. Now he is on another level of the Tower. I don't think he has lost all his memories but they are locked in a cell in his brain. He can't reach them with his mind but his soul.

Something like this:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p237/Lettike/helix1.jpg

Cry your pardon but we will need to merge this thread in some days.
I hope you will enjoy this site a lot.

[mdk101]

Welcome to the site, mdk101. :rose:
I am sure if you look around you will find lots of great threads and even more answers to your questions.
For my part I think:
Roland didn't go back in time but he has to repeat his quest. Now he is on another level of the Tower. I don't think he has lost all his memories but they are locked in a cell in his brain. He can't reach them with his mind but his soul.

Something like this:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p237/Lettike/helix1.jpg

Cry your pardon but we will need to merge this thread in some days.
I hope you will enjoy this site a lot.

I see, thanks for your insight. I was looking for a thread focused more so on the actual "future" so to say and the intricacies of it.

Although I have two questions for your levels of the tower theory (which I do indeed appreciate, thanks for that idea):

1) (this is still somewhat my original question): Within your line of thought for the ending, what is your theory on the drawings? I mean the "real" susannah we know (although I am confused since the jake/susannah/eddie were not drawn from the "key" world) goes off to live in the fake NY where Eddie and Jake are brothers. I am not sure how he would redraw eddie/susannah/jake/mort since most of them are "dead" in his world or the key world.

Do you think Roland is given new mates in the draw?
__________________________________________________ ______________
2) (this is moreso after taking your levels theory into consideration): Does this mean Roland will embark on an entirely different path to the tower? If so does this mean he is given new a new ka-tet? (yes sorry same question in both version but it's something I have been toiling with).

Thanks for the welcome :) glad I found these forums.

[Letti]

Everything depends on Roland's decisions. Maybe this time he will choose Jake and he will never let him drop... however I feel he is not ready for that yet. (That's the only think that can break this spiral. My two cents.)

So I think he will draw Eddie, Jake and Susannah again but if they are the same (we have met and got to love) or not... that's a very good question. It's a new level so they could be different but Roland uses doors to draw them so those doors could open to the same New York...
But I think I must say if I look at the logical side and if we think in a spiral he must draw different Eddies, Jakes and Susannahs all the time.

here is a damn long thread about the end:
http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=376&page=28
Long but it's worth to read. :)

[mdk101]

Everything depends on Roland's decisions. Maybe this time he will choose Jake and he will never let him drop... however I feel he is not ready for that yet. (That's the only think that can break this spiral. My two cents.)

So I think he will draw Eddie, Jake and Susannah again but if they are the same (we have met and got to love) or not... that's a very good question. It's a new level so they could be different but Roland uses doors to draw them so those doors could open to the same New York...
But I think I must say if I look at the logical side and if we think in a spiral he must draw different Eddies, Jakes and Susannahs all the time.

here is a damn long thread about the end:
http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=376&page=28
Long but it's worth to read. :)

ah yes, I saw the beginning of that thread but was not sure if it lead to what I was looking for in terms of the topic of discussion. Thanks.

[Letti]

My pleasure.
I hope we can see you around a lot. :rose:

[noja888]

Greetings, (new here - just finished the DT series)

Well now that I see that Roland is in a loop - and to the writer we all say thankya, kennit? . The hands of Gan dragged him forward. Now, this time he has the Horn of Eld. This suggest something was done wrong perhaps? What is Rolands' true Quest? Is he supposed to replace Gan? Provided things are done correctly? Was Walter O' Dim supposed to stay alive? Rolands' twin, march to the tower together? Gan seems neither of the White or Red. Ka and Gan seem closely related. Roland last in the line of Eld, follower of Ka to the End. If he does everything correctly throughout his life, Marches to the Tower naming the fallen and blowing The Horn of Eld... Does Gan answer the door? Did the writer not finish the tale?

[Letti]

Hey noja. Welcome to the site. Long days and pleasant nights. :rose:
I am sure you will like it here.
Look around and you will see there are many interesting threads and they are worth to read. You can get answers (maybe more than you wish) to your questions.

In nutshell (my two cents):
Roland didn't go back in time but he has to repeat his quest. Now he is on another level of the Tower. I don't think he has lost all his memories but they are locked in a cell in his brain. He can't reach them with his mind but his soul.
Something like this:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p237/Lettike/helix1.jpg
His true quest is to save himself. To give up the Tower. The only way he can get out of this trap if he doesn't enter the room on the top of the Dark Tower AND if he doesn't sacrifice Jake.. but it's my opinion. Some people agree some don't.

Here are some good threads to check:
http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=376
http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=1650
http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=1778&page=25
They are long but they are full of amazing ideas and theories. Give them a try.

Cry your pardon but I will need to merge this thread with The Official End thread soon. This is the only way we can keep this place navigable for everyone.

[pathoftheturtle]

Given your opinion, Letti, I don't understand why you emphasize the spiral. The point of that image is that it is not a wheel... on a spiral, progress can be made. It'd be a real Catch-22 to say that he's making progress by gradually realizing that he's not making progress. If we were to debate the nature of the loop, I would think that the schools of thought would see it as either a wheel (like a merry-go-round) which happens to have an escape hatch, or as a spiral which has a real purpose.

If you're interested, noja, there's also some interesting speculation about Roland's true quest among the posts of the thread "Roland: Saved or Damned?"

[noja888]

I have been skimming through the books to find clues as to what Roland did to loop through the cycle. Letting Jake fall to his death was the first. Well, actually loosing the horn was first. Did anyone take note that Jake died in both Keystone worlds? I think there is another book to be had by the writer (Do you Ken Sai King) to show Rolands' final cycle. The end of book 7 seems rushed/unsure OR it is on purpose to mimic his writing style when he was 19 and writing the first book. OR to show the compiled mistakes Roland took on his journey and how they undone the ending.:orely:

[Matt]

Meaning the end does not justify the means. That last line is basically it imo.

Welcome to the site noja. :thumbsup:

[noja888]

IMO I don't think it is another level of the Tower, unless there are more than two keystone worlds. Walter O' Dim mentioned the ageless stranger in Book 1 - is that Gan or someone else? I currently have three possible outcomes in my head and this may change with the wind.
1. Mordred will climb the tower - destroy the white and return the Prim.
2. Roland gives up the quest for the tower after the beams are restored. Reality stays the same. Beams heal over time. Eddie and Suz return to the Tet corporation, Jake and Roland revive Gilead. Jake Kills Mordred in the name of his father. The world moves on to the way it was - Ka is a wheel. Say Thankya.
3. Roland or Jake (not sure which one yet) accends the Tower - Releases Gan from his duty. Now there is the white, the red, and the blue (I choose this color because of his eyes) Reality is now on a new plane - new physics - different and completley incomprehensable to us (i cant spel!) with Rolands new verson of Ka (or balance) - one he has learned (finally) after many, many codas.

I number 3 the most tho I think Sai King may have difficulty getting there. Number 2 is nice and pretty and Sai King's track record make this unlikley. Number 1 is interesting but would not be the right ending IMO - I think Gan would simply shove him through the door. Mordred would have to become much, much wiser to undermine Gan - if thats even possible.:rose:

[pathoftheturtle]

IMO I don't think it is another level of the Tower, unless there are more than two keystone worlds. ...Indeed; I've long believed that the keystone concept must be relative. Which worlds are the keystone worlds just depends on what point Roland is at when he looks. The best metaphor of all may be the house of cards in The Drawing of the Three.
... Walter O' Dim mentioned the ageless stranger in Book 1 - is that Gan or someone else? ...
>> Click the arrow above for link into "Randall Flagg - discussion of the character and his many guises" in "The Villagers" forum<<
...possible outcomes...
1. Mordred will climb the tower - destroy the white and return the Prim.
...Here's a mind blower of a question: Is it possible for this to happen in some worlds, and yet, for the Tower to be saved in others? Could the White be both destroyed and not destroyed?

[noja888]

To answer your question the best I can (and this is only my opinion) Pathoftheturtle, I think the placeholders on other levels could be destroyed - like the Rose - but it would take someone from the Prim to do so - it seems no being of the White or Red could bring itself to damage it - The Glammer of the Rose is too strong. Maybe that level of the tower would break off and float on its own. All doorways lost to that world/level of the Tower. Maybe then in that World the white (or red or both) could be destroyed or maybe the whole thing goes Todash without its connection to the tower. I think the Tower is a single thing - No twinny , just representations of its bind - so it is 'saved' or 'not saved' I don't think there can be both. :panic: if it can be saved and not saved then there is something bigger than the Prim and everything else. :orely:

[pathoftheturtle]

...I think the Tower is a single thing - No twinny , just representations of its bind - ...Then, if one representation falls, would that bring down the whole thing, and/or the real Tower? Or does the power of the real Tower make it impossible for any one of them to actually be destroyed... just because that would be against destiny? :unsure:

I don't know. I think that, if it can be destroyed and not destroyed, that might mean only that the Prim (which is chaos magic) is bigger than the Tower. Sad as it may be, it does seem possible that cosmic order and civilization are just human vanities.

On the other hand, it might mean that the Tower is bigger than the Prim and that it contains and transcends the Red and the outer darkness. If this is true, it means that nothing can ever really destroy the Tower, but also that all of the evil and human suffering within it are an integral part of the design. :beat: Such a large concept, so full of paradox, is incomprehensible to the logical, mortal mind... but then, after all, what do we know?:unsure:

One contradiction to that idea might be the "Jake paradox" (to coin a phrase) in The Waste Lands. It appears that the Tower could not tolerate or allow even so simple a condition as that one to continue. Yet the fact that it could exist at all, even briefly, tends to support the idea that the power of the Prim is primary.

(You know, I'm actually not sure if all of this is entirely appropriate to this thread. :blush: I just get so excited to talk with someone who's into the metaphysical questions. :) BTW, noja; you can just call me path, or Mike. Everyone else does. Maybe we should revive a thread like The Tower (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=1814) or Prisoner of the balcony (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=2860) for further discussion, or start a whole new one in Town Commons.) :orely:

[megaknight]

i was almost satisfied. I want to know what happens to roland when he finally does the quest right and earns his redemption. i also felt the same way i feel whenever i finish something good: inspired. so i drew a couple pictures of my favorite and the most memorable scenes for me in the story, and came up with some ideas of how roland will eventually reach the end of his quest.

[Letti]

i was almost satisfied. I want to know what happens to roland when he finally does the quest right and earns his redemption. i also felt the same way i feel whenever i finish something good: inspired. so i drew a couple pictures of my favorite and the most memorable scenes for me in the story, and came up with some ideas of how roland will eventually reach the end of his quest.

Can we see those pictures anywhere?

[megaknight]

no, not really, none of the pictures i make end up as i wanted them too, and i usually get pissed and discard them. I have shown pictures to people who said that they were wonderful, but im messed up in a way that if it isn't what i saw in my mind, then it isnt good enough. I think i need to fix this problem though. another problem is no scanner or camera to use.

[Letti]

no, not really, none of the pictures i make end up as i wanted them too, and i usually get pissed and discard them. I have shown pictures to people who said that they were wonderful, but im messed up in a way that if it isn't what i saw in my mind, then it isnt good enough. I think i need to fix this problem though. another problem is no scanner or camera to use.

I see and I can understand you but I must tell you I would be really happy to see them. I think so would all the other DT junkies.

[Jean]

yes, yes, bears would, too! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/excited.gif

[agrabin]

Although I've been a huge King fan since his very early days I'm relatively new to the Dark Tower. I bought the books in a set and have read them one after the other, just finishing the series yesterday. Like King might have wanted us to (?) - and knowing how difficult it would be for him to create an appropriate ending - I was almost prepared to settle for his 'non-ending' and actually put off reading the Coda for nearly 2 months. However, eventually I felt I owed it to Roland and the others to make my own climb to the top of the Tower. Perhaps I should not have continued for I now think I can imagine what Roland felt, briefly, when he realised that he was in an endless spiral destined to take him on his quest over and over again. My immediate thought was that Roland should kill himself but on reflection I admit that would not have pleased me. Like some have already suggested I would be happy to imagine that each of his journeys is slightly different.
The end did disappoint me but I wasn't surprised given the impossibilty of fashioning a proper closure to something which I now believe cannot be closed. In line with my reading ethos I won't ever read the series again and am happy to take from it that enjoyment which I gleaned during my journey with Roland and the others.

[turtlex]

agrabin - I guess part of the question has to be... exactly how much does Roland realize.

[agrabin]

I don't want to get particularly philosophical about it but each time I consider what he might have thought at that time I come up with a different answer - is it the realisation that he must in a sense 'die' an infinite number of times in order to live forever?

[turtlex]

Oh... you should check out this thread - for sure ... here! (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=1778)

[agrabin]

Oh... you should check out this thread - for sure ... here! (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=1778)

Thanks...can't check it out now but I'll have a look at it when I've a bit more time to spare.

[Letti]

Are you absolutely sure that you will never reread it?

[agrabin]

Are you absolutely sure that you will never reread it?

Hi Letti (great name by the way)

I wasn't trying to be smart but when I've tried in the past to re-read a book it just hasn't worked for me so I don't try at all.

Never say never though I suppose...after all, there are only 3 things certain -

1. Life
2. Death
3. not being able to strike a match off a jelly


I have read much in my time - many hundreds of books of all sorts but of all those which I've enjoyed the most there is only one which I have deliberately re-read and even then, it probably would be one which is regarded to some degree as stand :) alone in both versions - The Stand and it's uncut version.
Not necessarily my favourite SK book but pretty close.

[Letti]

Are you absolutely sure that you will never reread it?

Hi Letti (great name by the way)

I wasn't trying to be smart but when I've tried in the past to re-read a book it just hasn't worked for me so I don't try at all.

Never say never though I suppose...after all, there are only 3 things certain -

1. Life
2. Death
3. not being able to strike a match off a jelly


I have read much in my time - many hundreds of books of all sorts but of all those which I've enjoyed the most there is only one which I have deliberately re-read and even then, it probably would be one which is regarded to some degree as stand :) alone in both versions - The Stand and it's uncut version.
Not necessarily my favourite SK book but pretty close.

Thank you for the kind words. :rose:

Interesting.
I must re-read my faourite books. It's the same with movies. I can watch them over and over again.
If you ever re-read let us know about it. :)

[Kvalhion]

Like many, I started reading the series with the Gunslinger, waiting for each successive book to come out with many years in between. I finally read all them together once the last three had been published back in 2005 or so.

I thought the real ending of the book was Roland shouting the names as he approached the dark tower, then entering the tower. The end.

.. the rest really seemed like it was written because King knew readers would be angry if they didn't get to see what was inside the tower. That said, I enjoyed how he depicted the tower and couldn't think of any ending that would remain true to the whole series and King as a writer other than what was written.

I just listened to all 7 books on audiotape over the last few months and just finished today. Hearing the audio brought another aspect to the books that I really enjoyed. I am a major fan of audiobooks, mostly because I do not have a lot of time to read but do end up driving a lot, so I listen to them in my car.

So I think 'go now, there are other books than these...'. It'll be fun rereading some of King's other books like Insomnia, IT, the Stand, etc. Or checking out the thread on what everyone else is reading or recommending. :)

[ola]

Welcome to the forum Kvalhion! :dance:

(BTW: when you're in the thread for a specific book, you don't need to mark spoilers.)


.. the rest really seemed like it was written because King knew readers would be angry if they didn't get to see what was inside the tower.

I feel totally the opposite. I think the warning and separate "Coda" were put there to try and cushion the blow, and not immediately slap readers in the face w/the ending. The final ending feels so "meant to be" in retrospect that I can't imagine the story stopping before that. If anything, I can imagine it without the "OK guys, get ready to have your minds BLOWN!" part.

I do like the audiobooks a lot too! I don't usually listen to books on tape, but my boyfriend does because of his delivery job. And of course I couldn't pass up the chance to listen to the series along with a new reader!

[oyboy]

First, I was shocked. I am very good at guessing endings, but this came as a complete surprise. I thought, "Did King REALLY end it like this?"

Second, I was ticked. I felt really let down. I had been following these characters for years. I know most of you all disagree with me, but I truly thought he sold his masterpiece short.

[Letti]

First, I was shocked. I am very good at guessing endings, but this came as a complete surprise. I thought, "Did King REALLY end it like this?"

Second, I was ticked. I felt really let down. I had been following these characters for years. I know most of you all disagree with me, but I truly thought he sold his masterpiece short.

Keep thinking about it. You might change your mind later. Many people have already. But even if you don't never forget that it was about the journey and not about the end.

[oyboy]

But even if you don't never forget that it was about the journey and not about the end.

Very true, but what bothered me was similar to what another poster said: It was as if King hit the reset button. POOF, all that journey gone.:nope:

[Letti]

But even if you don't never forget that it was about the journey and not about the end.

Very true, but what bothered me was similar to what another poster said: It was as if King hit the reset button. POOF, all that journey gone.:nope:

No way! Why would it be gone? The journey didn't end.. that's all. Nor for Roland. I don't think this time everything will be the same. If Roland can change enough he will be able to get out of this spiral. He needs to learn a lot of things but I think he is improving all the time and he is on the right way to save his soul.

[Brainslinger]

But even if you don't never forget that it was about the journey and not about the end.

Very true, but what bothered me was similar to what another poster said: It was as if King hit the reset button. POOF, all that journey gone.:nope:

I would have felt the same way I think... but the return of the horn (oo-er) made it ok for me. Besides, I like to think that the events of each loop are very similar with just minor changes along the way. So all the accomplishments of Roland and his Ka-tet will happen again, with a bit more added if that makes sense.

[Rambo, John J]

As a sometime writer and avid bookreader, i've an overactive imagination, sometimes more than is good for me. Candy's (from these boards) sig quote encapsulates me to a T - 'The imaginative reader knows that story doesn't end when the book closes.'

I consider DT to be the best - not just book, - but story I have ever come across. I%

[alinda]

Well John, your not alone there! Welcome to the site, I know ypur going to love it as much as we do. :D

[sarah]

Hi Rambo, John J. Welcome to the site. Check out these (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=6487) two (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=1318) threads. You might find them interesting. :D

Happy posting...

[Rambo, John J]

Thats weird, my original post should have read some thing like this!:

As a sometime writer and avid bookreader, i've an overactive imagination, sometimes more than is good for me. Candy's (from these boards) sig quote encapsulates me to a T - 'The imaginative reader knows that story doesn't end when the book closes.'

I consider DT to be the best - not just book, - but story I have ever come across. I have no idea why, perhaps its because its been a part of my life for longer than any other story, who knows. It crosses all genres, fulfils, subverts and idealises many tropes (in a non-cliche) way and - after my initial shock at the end of Wolves of the Calla, Has the best instance of breaking the forth wall ever. I don't think i've read a story before or since where the writer has dared to do this with such aplomb. And its King's acknowledgement and lampshading of his own fate (or ka if you will) in being part of the story, his own helplessness - coupled with his clearly inherent understanding of the nature of stories and of storytelling - that allowed him to get away with the deux ex towards the end of Dark Tower.

All of which is a roundabout way of me saying... I don't know how it ends.

At a certain point, King tells the reader to 'stop reading', and I stopped. The story for me ended at that point. I have no desire to know what lies within the dark Tower or what Roland will find at the top. For me, (and I only realise this while typing now) it was always about the journey.

Am I the only one or are there other crazy folken out there like me who are the same?

Marty

[sandcracker21]

I have one further thought about the ending of the series. When Rolland is 'tugged' back in time to be doomed to repeat his quest over, it is sugested that he has made it to the Dark Tower many times, and has been shoved back many times.

Why do you think he is being 'punished' like this? is it for sacrificing Jake in book 1?

Also, this has been killing me, each time he gets 'shoved' back to the beginning, does time rest itself? Because throughout the series people seem shocked to see a gunslinger from Gilead and say "Gilead has been gone for thousands of years, you can not be from there!" ...so it would makes sence that time has continued to move forward despite Rolland 'reseting'.

HOWEVER, he sees Sheb from his time in Mejis while in book 1, and Sheb is still alive and well?

[blaine]

i personally felt that time 'resetting' was implied, but also i think its mentioned that small things can change rolands fate , i can't remember the exact quote but the horn of eld is mentioned.

It's also possible that he is crossing to a new dimension each time and saving that particular one, and he will never be done.

[sandcracker21]

It's also possible that he is crossing to a new dimension each time and saving that particular one, and he will never be done.


hmmm i have never thought of that....that it would seem he is starting the "last dimension" since he starts out with his horn the last time...meaning Jerico hill went differently, which means anything after it (the entire story) could be changed....

interesting...

[blaine]

i think at its heart its a great ending as it means many different things to many different people.
and can mean different things to people depending on thier outlook on life at that time.
also doesnt it kind of inspire you to write your own ending to rolands tale in your head. even if its subconcious.

[Anjerith]

To be short but sweet; I felt that I should have taken King's warning to stop reading prior to the Epilogue to heart. As the last line of the book has pretty much cursed me to always wonder if the Gunslinger will ever find peace, among the hundreds of other things that you must wonder about at the end (if you don't stop with that beautifully sweet scene of Roland's Lost Ka-Tet finding some peace together).

[dagwood]

It was as if someone had died. Not just a family member or friend, but an actual part of me. I felt like there was a void in my life for a couple weeks...its not something one can explain to anyone who hasen't experienced it first hand

[blaine]

i smiled because it was perfect :-)

[osseolax28]

I agree with Blaine about saving the other dimensions and also with the post above. Some people hate the way the series ended, but i believe the only reason they hate it is because people want things their own way because their selfish, they dont think about the bigger picture. With Roland being pulled back or being pulled to another universe is just Ka's way of keeping The Tower safe and making sure it will not fall.

i think it even says that rolands line of family are knights or protectors of The Tower in SOS or WOTC, so it kind of forshadows Rolands fate. but know im just rambling and have goten off topic

[osseolax28]

So you stopped at that stopping point and have never read psat? Thats kinda cool ive never heard anyone do that.

[blaine]

john i can heartily recommend the ending , after all it is part of the book and part of the story, and it was for me the best part of the series :-)

[LadyHitchhiker]

Wow. I HAD to finish it. Maybe I should have stopped when he said!

[sandcracker21]

if it wasnt for rolland meeting sheb for the second time in tull...i would definatly say the was being sent 'back' each and everytime but erased memory but the that was NOT resting itself, that in fact, rolland was sort of immortal because of it...

i believe that walter tells rolland in the expanded 1st book that he is damned from the start (perhaps from sacrificing jake?) and hints that he has been through this conversation before

[Jean]

Wow. I HAD to finish it. Maybe I should have stopped when he said!
No, not if you are an honest reader. When a reader starts reading a book, it's a sort of covenant between him and the author; the reader, of course, can break it at any moment, for the reasons like loss of the book, death, the book being boring etc; keeping the covenant, however, means reading the book through, till the end.

And the end of the book is where the text stops - the last line, followed by no more text other than "Acknowledgements" and the like. It remains so, no matter what the author says or does, whatever silly or clever games he is trying to play with the reader, and however ingenuously he tempts the reader to stop. These are all the author's devices, his tricks, his mysterious unaccountable ways along which he has chosen to write his book; all responsibility for this is entirely his.

Ours is to keep our end of the covenant, and to read the book through, till the last line after which there's nothing more to read.

[Goblin]

Am I the only one that kind of wishes I hadn't read to the end? :cry:

[Brice]

Stopping for me where King says to would have been inconcievable. I didn't make a choice to continue. It was just already set in motion and there was no stopping. I still haven't stopped reading it.

[Rambo, John J]

Wow. I HAD to finish it. Maybe I should have stopped when he said!
No, not if you are an honest reader. When a reader starts reading a book, it's a sort of covenant between him and the author; the reader, of course, can break it at any moment, for the reasons like loss of the book, death, the book being boring etc; keeping the covenant, however, means reading the book through, till the end.

And the end of the book is where the text stops - the last line, followed by no more text other than "Acknowledgements" and the like. It remains so, no matter what the author says or does, whatever silly or clever games he is trying to play with the reader, and however ingenuously he tempts the reader to stop. These are all the author's devices, his tricks, his mysterious unaccountable ways along which he has chosen to write his book; all responsibility for this is entirely his.

Ours is to keep our end of the covenant, and to read the book through, till the last line after which there's nothing more to read.

Any other writer and i'd probably agree with you Jean. But King himself has described this series as his opus. He knows how much it means to his fans and readers, and he has the utmost of respect for us - that much is clear through his arguments at the start of each installment, his anecdotes of people who ask him about the Tower, and his 'constant reader' term of affection. He likes us. He wants to do us proud. He needs to.

Moreover King in his introductions, arguments and acknowledgments sections (not to mention his various non-fiction essays) displays that he knows and understands the nature of stories and storytelling. Hasn't he said himself that he sees stories as already existing artefacts with writers as 'archeaologists' uncovering these pristine works, word by word? And by extension, that he is not, and has never been, fully 'responsible' for the end product. As he says 'blame any [patches of sloppy writing/ lax moments] on whatever got lost in the translation.'

For that reason, I don't see him 'playing games' or trying to tempt us to stop reading. I think he was afraid deep down that he couldn't do the end justice, that no matter what the ending was, it would never measure up to the ideals and expectations of us, his constant readers. Not just that, I suspect he may also have been afraid of 'uncovering the story' incorrectly (to go with the archaeology theme) and in so doing, do the story itself a disservice.

But as a writer (and storyteller), he was compelled to finish it to, as you say, the last line, come what may.

I'm not quite sure if you're deliberately insulting me by insinuating that i'm somehow 'dishonest' by not reading to the last word, or perhaps i'm just being overly sensitive, (being honest is a big part of who I am) but irregardless, I don't see there being some sort of 'unbreakable' covenant or agreement between the writer and reader, other than the covenant 'I will agree to give you money/ time/ attention in return for entertainment'; and the reader has the right to set the book down at any time without somehow feeling like they've broken some sort of mystical bond. (Although that gives me an idea for a story.)

I enjoy reading your posts Jean, and a lot of what you write has inspired me to take up the pen and paper once again, but on this, I think you and I have different views on stories and storytelling.


And blaine, say thankya for the recommendation. I do intend on reading the end at some point (i'm in the middle of series reread right now) but for the time being i'm happy with breaking off where I did.

[Jean]

Insult you – God forbid, it’s all the matter of my wrong (as often happens) word choice; the natural antonym to “honest” does seem to be “dishonest”, but, as God is my witness, I didn’t imagine you in this - antonymous - position; also, I am afraid, the core word itself was wrong, and I still fail to find any better. Not really an “honest” reader, no, but someone who identifies with his reading to the point of starting an additional life every time he opens a new book; thus, it would be as futile for him to try to escape these fatal words, “the end”, as it would be for us to expect to cheat death indefinitely.

Especially when a book is Opus Magnum, the crown achievement and the big total of an author’s life, and especially if the book is so essentially intricate as TDT is.

I already bored everyone by saying it over and over, but I will say it again because I feel it is true – the Dark Tower saga is a simulation of the multiverse on many levels, and being essentially complex entails being formally convoluted; that’s why using the words “games” and “tricks” in any derogative way was the farthest thing from my mind. He makes the world for us, and he makes us live in it; at tmes he plays with us as God sometimes does, and Devil does all the time.

It is human to pray for the cup to be taken away. It is understandable to want to escape death at least this one time, - only it is there anyway, and no life is complete without this final period mark.

In this case King himself made this prayer of the chalice for us – it was his way of warning that Golgotha lies ahead. I am sure King wasn’t disappointed by what he wrote; nor was he afraid of disappointing his reader. He was warning that the last pages would be incredibly hard for the reader, as they – I believe – were for the writer; he was giving us illusion of choice, of a possibility of slipping out through back door; but he knew that ultimately there was no such thing as escape, and if he drank the cup, we, his readers, wouldn't shirk drinking it with him.


(I do so hope that the above - however incoherent - has at least in some way shown that our understanding of stories and storytelling is not really so different... http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif)

[blaine]

it is the perfect ending and thats all i will say. ;-) and i would love to hear your take on it john, if one day you choose to read it.

[Jean]

it is the perfect ending and thats all i will say. ;-) and i would love to hear your take on it john, if one day you choose to read it.
hear, hear! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearmood_friendly.gif