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Letti
07-05-2008, 07:58 AM
Wizard and Glass
I always loved Roland. Even when he seemed absolutely heartless he was close to me. But when at last I could read about his childhood and his first love I got to love and respect him even more.
I couldn't put down this book if I remember well it took me 2 days to finish it.


On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?


Which was your favourite part?


Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?


What did you feel when Susan was dying?


What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?


Who was the most disgusting character in this book?


What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?


Whose death made you the happiest?

Spencer
07-05-2008, 08:02 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
8, great story, but not enough CURRENT story.

Which was your favourite part?
The showdown at the Traveller's rest. :lol:

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
She had to.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Sad.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
Forgetting the faces of his Gunslinger Brothers

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Auntie Delgado

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
Nope. Really didn't care about it.

Whose death made you the happiest?
George Latigo.

Letti
07-05-2008, 08:02 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
10

Which was your favourite part?
When Cuthbert hit Roland to make him realise his mistakes.
When Susan told Roland: "If you love me then love me."

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
Because she needed someone a lot she was lost and lonely and because Roland was a real man, a gunslinger she could trust and love. So it was because of her hopeless state and because of Roland's true inside.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
I was 12 so I think I felt I was dying with her... if you are reading a book you are there and you feel everything.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
That he didn't kill Rhea.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Thorin

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
Good question. :) I had been thinking about it a lot. I don't think it was much but it might have been a bit more than wild sex.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Let me think... maybe Jonas' however I did like his character. He had a nice death anyway - during fight from the hands of gunslingers.

Spencer
07-05-2008, 08:13 AM
Which was your favourite part?
When Cuthbert hit Roland to make him realise his mistakes.



Oh, I loved this too. He should have slapped him a few more times to drive the point home.

Letti
07-05-2008, 08:17 AM
Which was your favourite part?
When Cuthbert hit Roland to make him realise his mistakes.



Oh, I loved this too. He should have slapped him a few more times to drive the point home.

And we mustn't forget that after this Roland cried his pardon and Cuthbert told Roland that he loved him.
good boys.. true friends

MonteGss
07-05-2008, 08:49 AM
Wizard and Glass

On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
I give it a 6. As I've stated elsewhere, The Dark Tower series, for me, is about Roland and his second ka-tet and I was just annoyed that Eddie, Jake, Susannah and Oy had very little to do with this book. Alain, Cuthbert and Susan pale in comparison to the others. While it is a good book because it is Dark Tower, it is the worst for me.

Which was your favourite part?
I would have to say Traveler's Rest, as well. I also really enjoyed Roland talking down to Jonas and calling him a "failure."

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
I know I'm a minority opinion but it was merely coincidence. Susan would have fallen for any "stranger" that happened to come along.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Meh. Death is sad and I didn't enjoy her death, but I knew it was coming and wasn't bothered by it.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
Forgetting his Gunslinger brother's faces...

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Cordelia, agreed. I loved to hate her. :)

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
It was a side note for me. Not terribly important, imo.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Jonas. Great scene!

mia/susannah
07-05-2008, 09:16 AM
On a scal= best) what would you give to this book and why?e of 1-10 (10

9 It is a very well written and while I read it, just like all the others, I can see in my mind what is happening

Which was your favourite part?

I have to agree with Letti. Cuthbert hitting Roland to make him wake up to what was going on.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

I have to agree with Monte. I think Susan would have fallen for any of the three. Roland just happened to be the first one she met.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

I felt really upset when she was burned. The whole town betrayed her but worst of all her aunt betrayed her


What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

not killing Rhea when he had the chance



Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Susans Aunt Cordelia. I cannot imagine anyone worse than a relative that would sell them to man for monetary gain

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

No. there was no depth to it.Jus two people having sex

Whose death made you the happiest?
Jonas

Jean
07-05-2008, 10:36 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
6
I found the story boring, and most of the characters (Susan and Rhea, to name just two) cliched and somehow second-hand. My answer to the "why" you're asking, however, is already extensively spread in a number of other threads.

Which was your favourite part?

All that was before and after Mejis flashback.

Inside the flashback, that is, of course, the showdown at the Romp, and the big battle in the end

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

because the time has come that she fall in love with anybody

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

I didn't give a f**k about her dying (she was doomed from the word go, - as I said, the story was cliched, and, thus, recognizable), but I did cry when she called bird and bear and hare and fish.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

he didn't really make any. He chose his future fate in that book, and shaped his character, and there was nothing he could have done otherwise.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Cordelia


What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

I think it was love.

Whose death made you the happiest?

when I learned how Cordelia died (Roland mentions it in his direct speech after the flash-back is ended) I was very happy that Mr.King wrote that... it's one of the (relatively few) redeeming features of that volume which is, otherwise, my least favorite (sharing this dubious honor with The Gunslinger)

"Perhaps it was shame," Susannah said.

Letti
07-05-2008, 10:51 AM
What did you feel when Susan was dying?

I didn't give a f**k about her dying (she was doomed from the word go, - as I said, the story was cliched, and, thus, recognizable), but I did cry when she called bird and bear and hare and fish.

*hugs Jean long* love ya

jayson
07-05-2008, 11:03 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?

8. I LOVE W&G. I don't see the Mejis story as an interruption to the "real" story. As I've said a lot, I like seeing Roland's world as it was. This is the longest glimpse we get, and we see it very well. Seeing what Roland could do at 14, both mentally and physically, was a major insight into how he would conduct himself in future adventures.

Which was your favourite part?

Little Coffin Hunters vs. Big Coffin Hunters. Roland's besting of Jonas that night gives me chills every time I read it.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

why do 16 year olds do anything? which is to say, i don't know and i refuse to say ka.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

i saw it coming, but i still felt bad for roland. i've discussed it a lot in the thread about it however long ago that was, but i don't hold roland responsible for susan's death and thus i feel for his loss.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

i think what jean said is accurate. roland didn't really make any mistakes. he made choices. those choices defined the rest of his life.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Cordelia, without a doubt. If Roland did make any mistakes it was not shooting Cordelia in the face.:shoot:


What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

It may have been what each of them thought was love, but they were two fairly ethically-challenged people, so I don't know what the word actually meant to them. I do think they cared for each other, but both of them cared for themselves much much more.

Whose death made you the happiest?[/QUOTE]

Cordelia's. I wish it were Roland that ended her life, but it was nice to know it did end when it did.

Letti
07-09-2008, 12:22 AM
What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

I think it was love.

You are quite alone with this answer (however I did write that I think it was more than sex) so can we know more about it?
What do you mean by love here? This word has so many meanings, that's why I ask it.
And why do you think so?

Woofer
07-09-2008, 02:58 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
6
I found the story boring, and most of the characters (Susan and Rhea, to name just two) cliched and somehow second-hand. My answer to the "why" you're asking, however, is already extensively spread in a number of other threads.

Which was your favourite part?

All that was before and after Mejis flashback.

Inside the flashback, that is, of course, the showdown at the Romp, and the big battle in the end

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

because the time has come that she fall in love with anybody

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

I didn't give a f**k about her dying (she was doomed from the word go, - as I said, the story was cliched, and, thus, recognizable), but I did cry when she called bird and bear and hare and fish.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

he didn't really make any. He chose his future fate in that book, and shaped his character, and there was nothing he could have done otherwise.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Cordelia

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

I think it was love.

Whose death made you the happiest?

when I learned how Cordelia died (Roland mentions it in his direct speech after the flash-back is ended) I was very happy that Mr.King wrote that... it's one of the (relatively few) redeeming features of that volume which is, otherwise, my least favorite (sharing this dubious honor with The Gunslinger

The only answer I would change is who is the most disgusting. For me, that position is filled by Rhea solely for the scene where she is fingering up Susan. Gag! Pass the brain bleach. Please...

Jean
07-09-2008, 05:46 AM
I didn't put Rhea because I never could take her seriously - she was way too cartoonish to strike me as anything but boring

being quoted by the Wolf so extensively makes the bear happy!!!

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear4bis.gif

Nikolett: you see, the Wolf too thinks it was love!

You know where I stand on love - I believe that there are people made for each other. Well, that's Jonas and Coral. I am absolutely sure they were each other's everything in their brief time together, and in different circumstances could have grown old happily together, robbing and kidnapping and extorting and having such similar fun. She was his real ka-tet, and he hers.

ManOfWesternesse
07-09-2008, 06:10 AM
Wizard and Glass
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
10 - I love this Book!

Which was your favourite part?
The showdown I would think - though that scene where the 3 boys are hunting latigo's men from the back was brilliant too.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
Because she recognised him for what he really was, and because her life was so bereft.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Extremely sad, and somewhat dissapointed in Roland that he had not made better efforts to look after her.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
The half-assed way he left Susan to her own devices to pursue Latigo et al. (He couldnt take her with them, but leaving her there in the hut??)

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Rhea/Codrelia tie.


What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
No depth whatsoever.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Depape?/Jonas?

Woofer
07-10-2008, 03:54 AM
I didn't put Rhea because I never could take her seriously - she was way too cartoonish to strike me as anything but boring

being quoted by the Wolf so extensively makes the bear happy!!!

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear4bis.gif

Nikolett: you see, the Wolf too thinks it was love!

You know where I stand on love - I believe that there are people made for each other. Well, that's Jonas and Coral. I am absolutely sure they were each other's everything in their brief time together, and in different circumstances could have grown old happily together, robbing and kidnapping and extorting and having such similar fun. She was his real ka-tet, and he hers.

You are right. Rhea is too cartoonish, but still that scene ooged me. I did not need that image in my head!

And I think you are 100% correct about Jonas and Coral. Part of me wanted them to escape the gunslingers' wrath and live just as you say above. I liked their characters although I'm certain I'd not like them in RL.

Being appreciated by the Bear makes the Wolf very happy! *wolfhugs* :couple:

Ka-tet
07-10-2008, 06:15 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
10, for a few reasons:
It gave us an insight into rolands past.
The storyline(imo) was fantastic, i liked not hearing about the tower for once.

Which was your favourite part?
The mexican standoff

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
I feel because she needed somone to love. The situation with Thorin made her vunerable(but love is still love).

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Sorrow.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
Letting rhea live, but it was ka and it comes like a cyclone.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Mayor Thorin

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
There was no depth, and i disliked the relationship

Whose death made you the happiest?
Jonas

sarah
07-10-2008, 06:37 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?

The first time I read it I gave it a 9. Now I give it a 6

Which was your favourite part?

The ending ride with Blaine and The boys saving Sheemie in the bar

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

I know there is a lot of discussion about this but I think they were each others true first loves. They loved each other. Who can say why love is the way it is?

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

Well sadly, I think she had to die for Roland to get set up on his path to the tower. Roland was never meant to be that kind of family man.


What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

Not killing Rhea and forgetting the faces of his brothers.


Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Rhea

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

*shrug* It was what it was.

Whose death made you the happiest?

jonas

Brice
07-10-2008, 06:47 AM
Wizard and Glass
I always loved Roland. Even when he seemed absolutely heartless he was close to me. But when at last I could read about his childhood and his first love I got to love and respect him even more.
I couldn't put down this book if I remember well it took me 2 days to finish it.


On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?10


Which was your favourite part?

The entire book.


Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

Love is love. There is no why.


What did you feel when Susan was dying?

:cry: :cry: :cry:


What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

Not running off with Susan and saying fuck it all.


Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Sheemie

just fuckin' with y'all. Cordelia by far. Followed by Rhea.


What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

They loved each other. To put it simply I agree with Jean on this one.


Whose death made you the happiest?

Death doesn't make me happy, but Cordelia's was the most satisfying and deserved IMO. Followed closely by Jonas'.

The Lady of Shadows
07-13-2008, 04:48 PM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
this past reread dropped this book waaaaay down - now it's maybe a 3

Which was your favourite part?
cuthbert telling roland there's something outside he wants him to see and then punching roland in the jaw and saying it's that little piece of ground that he's lying in; the showdown at the traveller's rest, all the wizard of oz stuff, all the parts surrounding the flashbacks

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
because he was there and she was desperate to find someone, anyone, who could take her away from her own life and world

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
again, this reread changed everything. i was kind of meh this time. i was sad when she called out "roland i love thee" though

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
ignoring the pleas of his tet, not killing rhea when he had the chance

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
cordelia - there is nothing more disgusting than selling a family member

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
i really believe that they were in love in their own way. i found more depth in their relationship during this reread, more truth, more joinedness (if that's a word). i really felt that they had found some necessary part of themselves in the other.

Whose death made you the happiest?
cordelia's (treacherous bitch)

Letti
07-14-2008, 05:57 AM
Turtlesong, on the same scale of 1-10 what would you have given to the book before your rereading?
When did you read it first?

The Lady of Shadows
07-14-2008, 06:02 PM
Turtlesong, on the same scale of 1-10 what would you have given to the book before your rereading?
When did you read it first?

i first read it the week it was released. it had been six years since the waste lands had been released and i couldn't wait to find out what happened. plus, we knew that roland's childhood was going to be revealed in some detail. so i was looking forward to that.

after that reading i gave it a 8 and have given it a solid 8 ever since. until this reread.



ETA: okay, i think that rating was too low. i think i actually gave it like an 8.5 or a 9. probably a 9. definitely not now though.

Letti
07-14-2008, 10:45 PM
And have you changed a lot since then? Because you know books don't change but people do. So it's quite interesting that your feelings have changed so much.

(I reread it some months ago and I was really happy to feel that I could get into the story as much as I did as a 12-year-old girl.)

The Lady of Shadows
07-15-2008, 10:40 AM
actually, yes i have changed a lot since then. my entire life has been turned upside down, shaken and turned back over. and nothing went back into the place where it was originally (if that imagery makes any sense at all). i don't feel like the same person at all - i don't even remember that person. i don't even remember being that person. and that makes me sad sometimes.

maybe that's why this reread changed everything in the books for me. not just w&g but all of them. i really loved susan the first however many times i read the books. this time she got on my very last nerve. seriously - i just wanted to slap her. i actually talked to the book this time and asked her "don't you fucking see what you're doing? don't you get it you numb bitch? you're in the way here - you're fucking up the tet and someone is going to get killed." of course, i knew it was her, but still.

oh, and yeah, i talk to books i really love. movies too sometimes.

Letti
07-15-2008, 11:19 AM
I don't hesitate to talk to my books. Anyway I don't hesitate to talk to anything. As a kid I had long and deep conversations with my shadow (yeah, I was a lonely kid) and I can talk about anything with my favourite pillow. That's how things work.

Maybe you will be able to like this book later in the future. Let me know everything about it.

The Lady of Shadows
07-15-2008, 11:34 AM
absolutely my dear letti. absolutely. :couple:

Tiffany
07-15-2008, 12:43 PM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
I'd say 9. My first time around was 10 but now, it's a nine. I say that only because The Drawing of the Three usurped W&G as my favorite.

Which was your favourite part?
When they lured the men into Eyebolt, the places where Susan stood up to Cordelia and of course, the catch-22 between the young and the old men.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
I don't really know. I like a mix of other people's answers: She's 16, she's vulnerable, she recognized Roland as a strong person.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Sorrow, sadness, grief.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
I always hated that he let Rhea live.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
It's a toss-up between Thorin and his sister.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
I think it was as close as those two could have been. They suited eachother well but I'm not sure it was much more than sex.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Cordelia's.

Tony_A
07-18-2008, 03:09 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why? 7 - I thought there was too much of the backstory. It was important, but not as important as devoting most of the book to it.

Which was your favourite part?

Cuthbert bringing Roland to his senses.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

Why do any of us fall in love? She found her soul mate.

What did you feel when Susan was dying? Sadness, even when I re-read it this past summer, and I'm 39.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

Not killing Rhea, and forgetting the face of his father.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Cordelia and Coral

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

I actually liked the relationship. Even morally corrupt people can find love.

]Whose death made you the happiest?

Cordelia's.

The Lady of Shadows
07-18-2008, 06:37 PM
<snip>
What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

Not killing Rhea, and forgetting the face of his father.

<snip>



the second part of this is very interesting. how do you think roland forgot the face of his father? when do you think he remembered it again? do you think he made a deliberate choice to forget it or do you think other things conspired to make him forget?

Whitey Appleseed
01-06-2009, 06:35 PM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
First time through, a 10. 2nd, still a 10. 3rd,4th...ah, 10. this last read...9...it's a great story...this last read seemed to drag a bit...maybe things happening outside the book made it that way.

Which was your favourite part?
I think the showdown in the saloon. Maybe when they tapped Oy's red slippers and he "simply looked at his own feet with a kind of disgusted bewilderment."

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
He was a big stud muffin compared to that old buck with the Roebuckers.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Probably early on...can't say for sure just when.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
Not seeing Marten in himself, when he was with Susan...."unhappiness and shame are often no match for desire"...great quote close to the end.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Cordelia

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it? I asked a question like this on another thread, about Susan and Roland's love. How did their time "doin' in" differ from when Susan and Roland were "doin' it"? They seemed to pine for each other when part and made plans to be together, as did Roland and Susan. In the end, Coral took up with Reynolds, and they were a kind of Bonnie and Clyde. Why couldn't Roland see some of Marten, in himself, when he took up with Susan? Perhaps that realization would have helped him forgive his mother. Maybe his greatest fault in this book is that he couldn't forgive, couldn't see that the Bright Tower that was Steven and Gabrielle was that way (and did sai-king portray it that way?) because Steven knew for two years...the subtext being, I reckon, that for whatever reason, we can work it out was at play.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Dunno...death, what can you say...the death that upset me the most was the death of the old bastard.

Whitey Appleseed
01-06-2009, 06:46 PM
What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Probably early on...can't say for sure just when.
RTFQ, Whitey...horrible way to go. I'm glad she was strong to the end, at least in that regard, not letting the bastards beat her by showing her pain. Hoo-yah.

jayson
01-06-2009, 08:10 PM
I'm don't see the Roland:Marten::Susan:Gabrielle analogy being as straightforward as all that on either side of the equation.

Let's take the ladies first... Gabrielle was the wife of Stephen. Assumedly she married him because she wanted to of her own free will. I don't know what the divorce rates are in Gilead, but I assume this is a lifetime commitment she made to Stephen. She had an affair with Marten for whatever her reasons, but ultimately, she committed adultery. Susan, on the other hand, did not make a lifetime commitment to anyone, nor did she act entirely upon her own freewill. She was coerced by Cordelia into promising Hart Thorin one night of action and nine months of womb rental. After that, her deal was done. She said as much to Roland. For her to get involved with Roland is not equivalent to breaking marriage vows. If anything, I think Susan's decision to follow her own heart and mind was more honorable than what she had been promised to do.

And on the other side of things we have Marten and Roland. Is it really a simple matter of overpowering lust on both of their parts? I doubt it, and in the case of Marten, I also doubt that it was Gabrielle he was lusting after. She was a tool to him to manipulate both Stephen and Roland. There's been endless debate about whether what Susan and Roland had was love, or lust or just two stupid teenagers who don't know the difference, but whatever they had, it was not at all the same thing as Marten and Gabrielle. Roland had no ulterior motives to manipulate the power structure of Hambry by sleeping with Susan.

Whitey Appleseed
01-08-2009, 05:39 AM
Well, look at it from the woman's point-of-view, then. It takes two to tango...trying to understand why Roland couldn't forgive Gabrielle...his fault then, was failing to realize that his mother is human, just as Susan had a desire, ka like a wind, when she met Roland...why couldn't he see, through Susan, that his mother may have had the same kind of desire for Marten as Susan had for him...no, their commitments weren't in the same league, but each had made a commitment prior to breaking that vow. "Unhappiness and shame are often no match for desire," from the end.

Susan was certainly unhappy with what she was forced to do. Was Gabrielle unhappy? We're not told that. Roland considers the marriage of his parents as a Bright Tower. That there could be some darkness within that tower is unacceptable to him. He can't understand how his father could know for two years. I wonder how the whore's bed, after the manhood test, plays into this?

Was Gabrielle simply a tool to Marten. For two years? Or is Gabrielle, like Jake's mother, Laurie/Megan Chambers, simply someone who "has a long history of sleeping with sick friends"?

turtlex
01-08-2009, 05:45 AM
: Sorry, thread lurker here :


... ka like a wind ...

Whitey - Do you mean Ka Is A Wheel .... or did I miss a Ka reference someplace in the books?

Just trying to follow along.

jayson
01-08-2009, 05:52 AM
why couldn't he see, through Susan, that his mother may have had the same kind of desire for Marten as Susan had for him...no, their commitments weren't in the same league, but each had made a commitment prior to breaking that vow.

I think you answered your own question. The vast difference in the nature of the commitments can't be ignored. Gabrielle broke marriage vows, Susan a vow to bear a child for someone. Again, if we presume Gabrielle entered the marriage of her own accord it contrasts greatly with the situation Susan was coerced into.

Also, don't discount the fact that Roland was a 14 year old boy. His disgust with his mother's actions are deeply personal. Gabrielle dishonored her marriage and thus, her family. Despite his abilities to carry out the actions of a much older man, Roland was nonetheless a 14 year old boy.



Was Gabrielle simply a tool to Marten. For two years? Or is Gabrielle, like Jake's mother, Laurie/Megan Chambers, simply someone who "has a long history of sleeping with sick friends"?

The question switches from Marten's motivation to Gabrielle's, but I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. Marten could view Gabrielle as a tool and she could view him as a sexual escapade.

jayson
01-08-2009, 05:53 AM
: Sorry, thread lurker here :


... ka like a wind ...

Whitey - Do you mean Ka Is A Wheel .... or did I miss a Ka reference someplace in the books?

Just trying to follow along.

I believe it's a Susan Delgado thing. Didn't her dad tell her ka was like a wind? It's something I remember her saying a couple of times in W&G.

turtlex
01-08-2009, 05:55 AM
Wow. I had completely blanked on that reference. Thanks, Jayson.

obscurejude
01-08-2009, 07:49 AM
I think it was a subtle tie in to the Wizard of Oz Turtlex. It was only in Wizard and Glass, but Jayson is right.

Whitey Appleseed
01-08-2009, 10:37 PM
Jayson, so you're saying that Roland probably did realize his mother could have desires for someone other than Steven? I'm a bit befuddled from reading the responses on another thread, wondering about some other things that have happened....the wonderful world of computers...anyway, thanks for the response. I'll continue to ponder the questions and they ought to provide enough grist for another read...amazing story.

And yeah, I think it was Susan's father that used the expression ka like a wind.

jayson
01-09-2009, 03:19 AM
Jayson, so you're saying that Roland probably did realize his mother could have desires for someone other than Steven?

Yes. I think he was old enough to realize that and it was confirmed for him when he caught Gabrielle and Marten together.

Whitey Appleseed
01-10-2009, 06:07 AM
Still befuddled, trying to make sense. I'm sorry for what I am, to quote John Coffey. But...Steven spoke about many things over the whore’s bed to Roland. “About Roland’s mother, who was, perhaps, more sinned against than sinning.” W&G/Long After Moonset/Chap IV/Sec 1/p170

Am I high-jacking a thread? That's not my intent. That is an interesting phrase, from King Lear, fwiw...why would Steven say such a thing? Wasn't he the one wronged?

“If you really do love me, don’t let me dishonor myself. I’ve made a promise. Anything might come later, after that promise was fulfilled, I suppose…if you still wanted me…” w&g/vii/9/p270 (the blood kiss) Susan to Roland, on the Drop. Where am I going with this? Roland's fatal flaw, his inability to forgive his mother maybe.

Another kiss…she stepped forward at once.

“She was, at least for the moment, no longer her own mistress; she might consequently be his. He could do to her what Marten had done to his own mother, if that was his fancy.” Wg,vii/9/270

So Roland blamed Marten for what happened and he realized that by taking Susan he would become just like Marten. Gotta admit, first time or two through the story, Roland could do no wrong in my eyes. Now, maybe he's not such a giant.

He's wrestling with the idea of Marten and Gabrielle:
“The thought broke his passion apart, turned it to coals that fell in a bright shower, winking out one by one in a dark bewilderment. His father’s acceptance.
(I have known for two years)
was in many ways the worst part of what had happened to him this year; how could he fall in love with this girl—any girl—in a world where such evils of the heart seemed necessary, and might even be repeated?”

I guess he does see, through his interaction with Susan, that his mother is to blame, as well as Marten. He's afraid of love. What is he more afraid of? Susan betraying him, or him betraying Susan?

Django
01-13-2009, 08:12 AM
OK, so I have just put down this book a moment ago and it's definitely my favorite of the series thus far. So, let me try and answer some of the questions.

On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?

9/10. It would have been a clear 10 if it only stuck to the story of the old. The Kansas parts didn't make much sense to me. Perhaps they will later on.

Which was your favorite part?

The first part of the "Come, Reap" book, when things are building up. I read that part in one day and then the rest took me a while again.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

I expected it to happen, but I imagined it would be in a more gruesome way.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Thorin. I loved how Jonas was written; the typical western bad guy.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

I don't see any real depth. They are not the loving kind, I guess.

Whose death made you the happiest?

Eh. None really.

jayson
01-13-2009, 08:45 AM
Glad to hear you liked it Django. A lot of people don't. A lot do (and I am one) but there isn't a lot of middle ground with this book. I think it's somewhat dependent on whether or not you view the Mejis story as a distraction from the "main story" or a greater part of the whole story regardless of chronology. I love W&G.

Jean
01-13-2009, 09:00 AM
I think it's somewhat dependent on whether or not you view the Mejis story as a distraction from the "main story" or a greater part of the whole story regardless of chronology. I love W&G.
No, at least not in my case: bears love distractions. Bear's favorite is Wolves, and the favorite part in Wolves is Callahan's story... generally, I think distractions, backstories, sidesteps, beating around the bush is King's forte.

jayson
01-13-2009, 09:03 AM
Bears indeed have their own reasoning. :)

Jean
01-13-2009, 09:14 AM
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearmood_thoughtful.gif

Hoot
02-05-2009, 10:20 PM
Eh, so I absolutely loved this book. I was reading Romeo and Juliet [for my English class] the same time as Wizard and Glass, and they didn't exactly mirror each other, but the similar aspects were definitely there. It was quite interesting; after finishing Wolves of the Calla I saw numerous similarities between the two stories as well, but nothing major. I have to say I preferred Wizard and Glass to Wolves of the Calla. The feeling of... I can't articulate it, but it just felt more epic than Wolves. In particular I absolutely loved the characterization in this. Young Roland was done superbly I believe, and Cuthbert was a treat. I do believe that Rhea was an extremely shallow character though. Would've done better to flesh her out a bit more...


On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
I'd say around an 8.5. Although the Mejis scenes were amazing, I felt the Oz scenes and others stole the fire a bit. Though being in an alternate Kansas was cool and all, Mejis beat Kansas in cool[ness?] by miles. Although I'd rate Wolves better than Wizard and Glass, I enjoyed Wizard and Glass more, ye ken? Sorta strange, but it makes sense in my mind.

Which was your favourite part?
The confrontation of Cuthbert and Roland. Personally I would've been even more pleased with this scene if the conflict went further, say Roland striking back, but I suppose that'd ruin it a bit. I also loved the thought that came into Susan's head upon seeing Cuthbert smile sweetly or something... [I]If I'd met this one first...
The showdown at the bar comes a close second. t'was an excellent face off.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
Apparently he's hot and he's witty. All it takes. Mercutio [still in my Romeo and Juliet mindset. Our class is currently on Act V] would laugh at them. But eh, they're teenagers. I thought I was in love once too. =P After that story ended, with many mistakes along the way, I just saw it for what it was: teenage infatuation. I also thought Romeo and Juliet weren't in love, and say if Romeo lived, and you'd hurl a girl foxier than Juliet onto him after [say Juliet died] Juliet's death, he'd be quick to recover from his mourning. I did think Susan and Roland was a tiny bit deeper than that, but not by much. They weren't star crossed lovers, just teenagers. This is what they do. Just they did it on a much more epic scale I guess. =P Anybody heard of the two 14 year olds who were forbidden to see each other and committed suicide? This wasn't that long ago, I believe, my rather young teacher told us about the story. ((Whoops, I trailed off a bit, but it's an interesting topic...))

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
I felt sadness. And anger at her aunt and to a smaller extent the townspeople.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
As a gunslinger, I was dissapointed at him for letting fondness for a girl cloud his judgment. [I understand this was necessary, and I like the twist to his character though =P]
As a person, I don't like how he never forgave his mother.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Cordelia.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
Eh, they got a good shag, and they were similar people. They were fond for each other. That's it.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Cordelia's for sure. I never really cared for Rhea that much, either way.

candy
06-13-2009, 02:58 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
4 - this out of all the series is my least favourite book, i felt too much time was spent on rolands time in mehjis and susan. i love the eddie ka tet and could not gell in the same way with the cuthbert ka tet, and the second time of reading i was very tempted to skim read (but i didn't)


Which was your favourite part?
any of the moments with the eddie ka tet, esp Oy's reaction to the red slippers (and esp the fact that Oy had red slippers, think an awww escaped me at that point)

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
because he was there, i always felt that if Cuthbert had been riding past that night susan would have fallen for him, she was scared and lonely and need reassurance after her visit with rhea. i think all the love that came after was down to that night (and to be honest i am still undecided if this was love or young age lust)

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
1st read - anger at the people / roland / cordelia / coral - even susan herself
2nd re read frustration,

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
forgetting the face of his father, letting his penis rule over his head and letting his ka tet down. i beleive that if he had done the job he had been sent to menjhi to do no one would have had to die (but it would have been a very short book)

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

i was torn on this - everyone has mentioned cordelia, but she was just behaving in her nature. coral i actually felt quite sorry for her. thorin again is just behaving within his nature and being allowed to get away with it

so i cant say as anyone disgusted me, but susan did annoy the hell out of me and quite a few times i would find myself harrumphing in annoyance with her


What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
i think they used each other, any feelings and depth that they had came from the fact that they needed each other (both bitter and twisted) and saw a lot of themselves in each other, but i would never have called it love

- picture either one or the other taking a bullet for the other, see you just cant see it can you

Whose death made you the happiest?[/QUOTE]

i cant say that any death made me happy, but like a lot of people have mentioned cordelia death held a certain kind of justice

pathoftheturtle
06-13-2009, 01:50 PM
I believe that there are people made for each other.I don't. I believe that people make their own commitments.
I know that you didn't much like this book, but it seems odd that you feel this way about Jonas and Coral while still maintaining that
Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

because the time has come that she fall in love with anybody><
:unsure:

Letti, why did you ask that question, and not ask why Roland fell in love with her? :orely:

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
Because she needed someone a lot she was lost and lonely and because Roland was a real man, a gunslinger she could trust and love. So it was because of her hopeless state and because of Roland's true inside.Maybe that is correct... but, if so, is that really love at all? It's all self-interest.

On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?6
Meh. It's not that great. I might have gone a little higher, though, if not for the corniness in the ending.

Which was your favourite part? Blaine

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland? I'm not at all afraid to say ka.
Ahem. Ka.
So there. :P

What did you feel when Susan was dying? Unbearable lightness of being.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book? Shooting Gabrielle, of course.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book? I'm gonna go with TMIB, whose nasty fingerprints were, as usual, all over. :angry: (candy: Don't you ever find nature disgusting?)

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it? Depth? Sure. No true love... but it was fairly realistic. It was like... utilitarian.

Whose death made you the happiest? None, really. I guess it was a relief when the canyon worked... but also very troubling. I suppose that I'll agree with Jean's point, regarding Cordelia.

Lily-sai
06-13-2009, 05:43 PM
I'm not going to read the others' answers, so I won't be influenced by them. I'll read them afterwards when I've finished answering. :)

On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
At first it was 4 or something - I really didn't like this book. But after a recent reread, I started to appreciate it a little more. So now it would be around 6.

Which was your favourite part?
Getting to know Cuthbert Allgood. I really, really love him, you know.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
A combination of ka and crazy young love.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
It was sad only because it scarred Roland so much.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
Ignoring his ka-tet and thus forgetting the face of his father.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Rhea of Cos!!! And her awful pets. Cordelia, too.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
I kind of saw it in that way that they just enjoyed and also used each other.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Happy would be a wrong word for my feelings, but.. I hope Cordelia is stuck somewhere in the todash with those monsters.

Letti
06-13-2009, 10:16 PM
1. Letti, why did you ask that question, and not ask why Roland fell in love with her? :orely:

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
Because she needed someone a lot she was lost and lonely and because Roland was a real man, a gunslinger she could trust and love. So it was because of her hopeless state and because of Roland's true inside.2. Maybe that is correct... but, if so, is that really love at all? It's all self-interest.

1. Good question. Maybe because Roland's love is much clearer to me. But sure it would have been a good question, too.

2. It's still love.
Most of us try to find a partner not to be alone.. to be protected.. to belong to someone. We don't try to find our other part only because of the feeling of love... we try it so hard because we need to love and we need to be loved because of many reasons.
If we choose a partner just because of these.. hm.. selfish wishes and instincts..maybe that's not love. It becomes love when you do find something priceless and lovable in that person. You realise that you love them because they are who they are.
Susan did find lots of amazing things in Roland.
just my 2 cents

Jean
06-13-2009, 10:31 PM
I believe that there are people made for each other.I don't. I believe that people make their own commitments.

How are the two statements contradictory?


I know that you didn't much like this book, but it seems odd that you feel this way about Jonas and Coral while still maintaining that
Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

because the time has come that she fall in love with anybody><
:unsure:
Why does it seem odd? There's nothing in common about the two couples, their life experience, nor the way they were written.

Letti
06-13-2009, 10:36 PM
Nothing in common?! There are quite a lot.

Jean
06-13-2009, 10:55 PM
Well, they were people, male and female, the female lived in Mejis and the male was a newcomer; isn't that it? In fact, even if they had everything in common, I would still ask path the same question: how what I said about some people has anything to do with what I say about other people?

taniatank1
06-14-2009, 11:42 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
I would give this book a 9 out of 10, near perfect but I felt the ending was a little rushed.

Which was your favourite part?
My fave part was the saloon when cuthbert and alain took the coffin gang by surprise.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
susan had accepted her life to be as she saw no other choice, then along came roland and he opened her eyes to new possibilities

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
susan was brave in the face of death - she knew she was going to die and accepted it with dignity and with hope that roland could carry on

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
rolands biggest mistake was not killing Rhea of the coos on their first meeting but it was Ka

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Rhea was the most disgusting character in this book, spiteful, cruel and happiest when other people were suffering

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
coral and jonas was a meeting of minds abit like bonnie and clyde - it wasn't love but lust and both cold hearted

Whose death made you the happiest?
Jonas death made me happiest, but I would have liked a bit more chat between roland and jonas before roland finished him off

pathoftheturtle
06-15-2009, 06:03 AM
...If we choose a partner just because of these.. hm.. selfish wishes and instincts..maybe that's not love. It becomes love when you do find something priceless and lovable in that person. You realise that you love them because they are who they are.
Susan did find lots of amazing things in Roland.
just my 2 centsIt's interesting, thanks. Whether this is what happened with Susan or otherwise, she did show amazing things in herself, as well, by the time she did the jailbreak.




I believe that there are people made for each other.I don't. I believe that people make their own commitments.

How are the two statements contradictory? :blush: You caught me.

They're not. I just wanted to provoke discussion. :blush:

On the different couples, however, I may be misunderstanding. Do you not think that any of this
...You know where I stand on love - I believe that there are people made for each other. ... I am absolutely sure they were each other's everything in their brief time together, and in different circumstances could have grown old happily together...applies in the case of Roland and Susan?

Jean
06-15-2009, 06:10 AM
No, I don't. The statement "there are people made for each other" involves its counterpart, "there are people not made for each other" (picture: winking bear. Note: photobucket won't work); well, such are Roland and Susan (picture: sad bear)


You caught me.
(picture: dancing bear)

candy
06-15-2009, 11:25 AM
(candy: Don't you ever find nature disgusting?)


i try my best not too, although in real life i have been known too:rose:
odd and contradictory i know:unsure:

pathoftheturtle
06-16-2009, 06:35 AM
...The statement "there are people made for each other" involves its counterpart, "there are people not made for each other"...Ah, but in that case, it may indeed be contradictory. There's harmony between doing what we choose and doing what we're made for only when we realize that they are the same thing. If we try to redefine one or both terms over should've, would've, and could've, then there is contrast.

If two people who are not made for each other try hard and get together, that just goes to show that they were made for each other, after all. And who are we to judge? That's just what I meant when I said that I don't believe that some people are made for each other; I do believe in destiny, but I don't believe that it can ever be an excuse.

Anyway, what's my point here? Well, consider: Would Jonas have put his relationship with Coral ahead of his loyalty to Farson? Probably not. And would he have put duty to the abstract good of preserving the Tower ahead of Coral? Again, probably not. So does that mean that his ethics were truer and better than Roland's? Is that what we're saying here?

(What a great thread this really is. :D In a few simple examples, there are questions on the definition of love, on the difference between fate and mistake, between choice and accident, on the nature of evil, on the difference between convention and righteousness, and many other deep issues. :) :thumbsup: )

AcidBumbler
06-17-2009, 01:47 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
10. It's Stephen King, which already makes it at LEAST an 8, but the Dark Tower series is amazing. I'm really attached to all of the characters. _

Which was your favourite part?
Cuthbert, Alain and Roland showing everyone in the tavern that they weren't just weak little children (the line-up type scene when everyone had weapons pointed at each other).
Also, the part when Susan visited Rhea for the first time.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
Who the hell wouldn't?

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Knew it was gonna happen but it was still upsetting as hell.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
Leaving Susan alone with Sheemie. He wasn't going to be able to protect her =|

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Susan's aunt :@

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
Purely sex. Nothing in it at all.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Jonas.

Jean
06-17-2009, 03:26 AM
Path: the point is in not absolutizing the concept. Being or not being made for each other is as relative a thing as, say, a talent. You may or may not be talented for, say, playing the violin, or architectural design, or nursing; if you still pursue the line you're not talented for, you may or may not learn, and you may or may not become good at it; the more talented, however, you are, the better you will succeed and the happier you will be. Roland was not talented for Susan, while she was in that bloom of first youth when one - especially a girl - is gifted to bestow the force of her love on anyone, like a little child seems to be gifted for lots of things; it's later in life that one can say if he is really talented for anything.

pathoftheturtle
06-18-2009, 07:18 AM
Well, I think that I do see better now where you're coming from, Jean. So, to answer your question, I always find it a little odd when positive regard is given to the ostensible villain of a story. It might be just me that is drawing a comparison, but I kind of think that that is partly what villains are for.

In my opinion, it is just as possible to make some absolute statements about talents as it is to make some about love affairs. Not as urgent, though. If you trade the guitar for the saxophone, no one gets hurt.

The thing is that I don't believe that Susan failed at love.
I certainly don't believe that she should have been more like Coral Thorin. The latter woman was practical to a fault. If Susan had been as "wise" as her, I assume that she'd have gone on to do her business with the mayor and just kept Roland on the side. And, if Roland had been as "objective" as Jonas, he would probably have agreed.

I do think that healthy relationships require some cold reason, but not to the point of inhumanity. As the saying goes, "It's okay to have the boat in the water, as long as you don't have the water in the boat." The people who are most successful within the world are the worldly people... I think we go too far if this becomes our standard of true love.

Jean
06-19-2009, 01:49 AM
path... while agreeing with all you said above, I am at a loss as to how it refers to my point??? Any analogy goes only that far, and my only point in bringing up the talent line was to show how that "made for each other" thing is relative, - only up to the point where the quantity turns quality, of course, as usual. Coral/Jonas relationships don't have anything to do with Susan/Roland, just like nobody has actually to do with anybody, every case and every person being unique. Calling Hendrix (if he traded his guitar for a saxophone, though, the whole mankind would have been hurt, there would be no replacement, by the way) a great guitar player is not the same as calling him a bad architect; calling anybody a poor architect doesn't mean they would make a great accountant; again, the analogy goes only that far, but I am in the complete dark as to where you took the "cold reasons" part, or that Susan should become like Coral.

And no, I don't think Susan failed in love... if was Roland who did, which, in my opinion, proves my point (the one about it taking two to tango as far as true love is concerned)... she, however, succeeded... ultimately... just as she would have if there had been most anybody else at Roland's place.

pathoftheturtle
06-20-2009, 08:08 AM
*sigh* What we have here is a failure to communicate. :rolleyes:
I thought that I explained better in my last post. <_<


...Coral/Jonas relationships don't have anything to do with Susan/Roland, just like nobody has actually to do with anybody, every case and every person being unique. ...No man is an island. Again, it might be just me that is drawing a comparison... but I don't think that that's an entirely unreasonable means of interpretation.

Let me try to simplify discussion of where I think that you and I differ.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

I think it was love.I disagree. Or, at least, I would not put it that way. What I said yesterday on the thread "Their Love" http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showpost.php?p=406735&postcount=135 shows what I think about it. Hopefully, most of what we're talking about can soon move there; I really don't want to mess up this thread, but it's hard to resist responding to some of the comments.
...I am in the complete dark as to where you took the "cold reasons" part...Why, from Coral Thorin, the businesswoman who thinks
Folks would always want to drink and gamble and rut, no matter who they kneeled before in church, and no matter in whose name their taxes were collected.For the flowers of romance to mature into the fruits of marriage, both people must accept certain facts of life. I could be wrong, but I think that that was what you meant by
...Socks, armpits, tuneless whistling, will all be revealed as you live with the person you, allegedly, love... it's then that your love either grows stronger, or disappears, leaving only this frustration of your romantic anticipations (I thought she was an angel, and she belches after a glass of beer)Very true... yet the same process will eventually turn to rot. If her glass of beer turns into serious alcoholism, and you just try to cope and you learn to enable her, is that still love? It's one thing to accept that all of us are only humans, yet another to accept that we really are only animals.


...no, I don't think Susan failed in love...Okay. :) Thanks for clarifying.
... if was Roland who did...That does make more sense. However, I personally still think that in different circumstances R&S could have grown old happily together. :cry: They failed to overcome their sick society and the sickness of their cosmos... but that's not the same as not loving one another.
IMHO, Susan would have failed at love if she had decided for herself that
...she would have (succeeded at love) if there had been most anybody else at Roland's place....and maybe jumping to that conclusion really was Roland's failure.


...Hendrix (if he traded his guitar for a saxophone, though, the whole mankind would have been hurt, there would be no replacement, by the way)...Here again, I think that you are begging questions of destiny and holism. You're talking about changing the past, but you're not thinking fourth dimensionally. If someone could somehow take away what Hendrix did, tomorrow, then we'd all have lost something precious... but if he had just not wanted to do it in the first place, then it simply would never have been. That's more than just theoretical: Turn it toward the future... How many fathers in history have insisted that their sons would be hurting all of mankind if they gave up the piano for their crazy architecture hobby? Supposed talent is, necessarily, only a part of the big picture in our lives.
Anyway, what I was trying to say was not that art is less important than love, but that conscious understanding is generally more important in love, because it is so immediately personal.

pathoftheturtle
06-24-2009, 07:29 AM
(candy: Don't you ever find nature disgusting?)


i try my best not too, although in real life i have been known too:rose:
odd and contradictory i know:unsure:The problem is that once you'd decided that it would be wrong to hate people for following their natural instincts, you forgot that for you to hate them for that would have been natural.

yesterday's_eyes
08-25-2009, 01:50 PM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
9. I love the Oz stuff and the riddles with Blaine. I enjoy most of the backstory also.

Which was your favourite part?
The confrontation with Flagg and Tick Tock Man. Love love love that scene.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
I don't know.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Sad I guess.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
Not killing Rhea when he had the chance.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Rhea I suppose. I couldn't stand reading about her.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
Not really, I felt like it was pretty pointless.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Jonas. I loved when he talked about how Roland was the fastest gunslinger he had ever seen (or something like that).

MPatrick
08-25-2009, 02:07 PM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?
For me it would be 8.5. I loved Roland's tale, but felt the "current" story was lacking a bit.

Which was your favourite part?
Fave is tough. I would say the standoff at the bar to protect Sheemie, and I always get chills when Roland screams, "Hile Gunslingers, To Me!" Gets me every time!

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?
Like a wind, it was Ka. Much like Cuthbert, I would say it's a weak explanation!

What did you feel when Susan was dying?
Sad. Angry. Felt like taking a blow torch to the whole town. Although, The Good Man most likely did...

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?
I agree with many here, and SK himself (in the narrative). He should have killed Rhea when he had the chance.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?
Absolutely Rhea. Not a single redeeming quality.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?
I think the fact that they were both cold hearted pricks matched them up well to begin with. It didn't get into it much more, but you could see they were getting closer. I don't know if I would call it love, but definitely more then just sex. Although she did wind up with Clay.

Whose death made you the happiest?
Jonas, two shots to the face. :shoot:

Sickrose
11-20-2009, 10:19 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?

7


Which was your favourite part?

The first ''if you love me then love me''


Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

I reckon because he was so damn hot! She was lonely and he was all mysterious and from somewhere exotic.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

Really sad especially when she says ''bird and bear..''

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

Not killing Rhea
Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Aunt Cordelia that woman was awful!

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

They were similar and, therefore, it worked.

Whose death made you the happiest?

Aunt Cordelia

Delacroix
11-22-2009, 11:51 AM
Let's being subversive!

Which was your favourite part?


=> My favorite part is when Sheemie is forced to lick the Depape's boots (or is it Reynold, I'm always confused between those two) , previously drenched with "Camel piss". Especially when he askes himslef if it can be sort of sexy.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

=> Because the poor girl is Ka's toy... and cannot wait until the storm passes away before doing her little bush-buisness.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

=> Sweet happiness, at least all this uncertain and nave love was over, finally Roland could become Roland and stop being a teenage idiot.


What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

=> Think he could have friends, a lover and stop Farson's men in the same time. Greedy boy, so he is!


Who was the most disgusting character in this book?


=> Cuthbert, I'd have kicked his balls the way Avery wanted to if I was givent he chance. I just can't stand his foolish humor.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

=> That was something true and somehow touching. Simple, direct and yet so powerfull! As we say I my neck of the wood "Qui se ressemble s'assemble."

Susan Delgado
10-16-2010, 10:54 AM
Wizard and Glass
I always loved Roland. Even when he seemed absolutely heartless he was close to me. But when at last I could read about his childhood and his first love I got to love and respect him even more.
I couldn't put down this book if I remember well it took me 2 days to finish it.


On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why? 10. its my absolute fav, could you guess. i was 17 when i read it so maybe that was one reason why it had such an effect. it blew me away like an a-bomb


Which was your favourite part? i loved the Roland-Susan parts


Why did Susan fall in love with Roland? why why? i fell for him too, who wouldnt. dream guy having a dream-love affair with the dream girl :rolleyes:


What did you feel when Susan was dying? i was sad ofc but not being entirely devoted to her i rather had sort of ambiguous feelings about it


What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book? altho im not as much as a fan of Susan as my profile would suggest, letting her die was pretty much a wrong move


Who was the most disgusting character in this book? not sure. Rhea was pretty gross but she was a bit too exaggerated at some points, turning into a parody. not sure if it was an intended effect.


What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it? nothing it didnt leave a lasting effect


Whose death made you the happiest? not sure. its been a while since i last read the cycle

Doe
10-31-2010, 08:16 AM
Which was your favourite part?

The Gunslingers ambushing their enemy in the field. ''Hile gunslingers, to me''

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

She needed to fall in love with someone, and Roland just happened to be there at that time, However I still think love is love, and they both were madly in it.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

Hope, That somehow Roland would save her, or somebody would.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

Not blasting Rhea in the face

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Cordelia

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

I liked it, and partly hoped they would go off somewhere and try to be happy, but alas...they died!

Whose death made you the happiest?

Cordelia

RainInSpain
11-01-2010, 04:54 AM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why?

8 out of 10. Even though it's not my favorite book of the series, I liked it as a blast from the past sort of thing, which gave another dimension to Roland. And I liked Cuthbert. A lot.

Which was your favourite part?

Susan and Roland's first encounter on the road - love the thrill of meeting someone for the first time and the mix of feelings.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland?

Why not? I agree with earlier posts that she was at an age when it happens very naturally.
Other than that - can we always say why we fall in love ourselves? Sure, I can give a list of what attracted me in someone, but it does not mean that the next person with the same attributes will spark the same feeling.

What did you feel when Susan was dying?

As far as I remember, when I read the scene for the first time my immediate reaction was anger at the people of Mejis and their herd mentality.

What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book?

Not realizing that he could not foresee and prepare for everything.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book?

Rhea as an obvious baddie, and Cordelia as someone who was not exactly evil per se but was narrow-minded enough to become a tool.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it?

I felt their relationship was quite interesting. To me, it's an antithesis to Roland/Susan relationship, where Roland and Susan ended up with feelings first and business second, while Jonas and Coral were both hardheaded and sexual attraction did not make them lose sight of other things. As someone else in this thread said, (I'm paraphrasing) for a relationship to work longer than short-term, beyond the infatuation phase, there has to be a certain degree of cold calculation behind it - I couldn't agree more.
Since Jonas was killed, we had no chance to find out if they had too much of calculation in their relationship at the expense of everything else. But they were enough of 'birds of a feather', so perhaps even if they could not have stayed long as lovers, they would still have continued as accomplices.

Whose death made you the happiest?

Cordelia

Roland of Gilead 33
02-13-2011, 07:33 PM
it may just be me, from what i read on here, the different views of how this or that was Roland's fault. which partly it may have been there's no doubt. i haven't gotten that far yet. but i think part of it is also Susan's Fault as well. her actions were her own fault as well as his actions were.

so they take good share of the blame in her death as well.

Roland of Gilead 33
02-23-2011, 07:19 PM
On a scale of 1-10 (10 = best) what would you give to this book and why? i also say about an 8. not the best in the series but i'm sure it won't be the worst either. i have yet to read them to before i can say what the worst one is.

Which was your favourite part? i think it was the part where we have Roland's Ka-Tet attack Jonas & His Gang that part was fucking awesome. was better than the actual battle that happend later on i think.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland? i never gave it much though. i think part of it was cause he was a stranger, she was 16 he was a good looking guy. why do people fall in love? various reasons i'm sure.

What did you feel when Susan was dying? pissed, at how stupid Roland was, on how much he missed, but i don't think it was his fault she died. nor Sheemie's either. i blame Rea actually. i'd love to say her aunt but honestly, it feels like her aunt lost her mind really. than Rea got to her & hypnotized her & made her worse. & if Susan was easy to get hypnotized i wasn't surprised her aunt was as well.

the townsfolk just wanted folks to blame i think. they should have known better but didn't. a LOT of it i'm sure had to do with the cancelling of Reap Fair. & the blame on Roland & the boys. the reason that was given even Jonas agreed made no sense. none of the townsfolk wanted to open their eyes & see what was actually going on. they did open their eyes but it wasn't until Susan died. but by than it was just to late.

plus since everyone else that either Susan or The Blue Coffin Hunters killed. since they were too damn chicken to put any blame on them cause they would have been killed otherwise they put the blame on Susan & the boys.


What was Roland's biggest mistake in this book? i have to agree with thisNot realizing that he could not foresee and prepare for everything. or realize how much of a mistake it was to just leave Susan after she got kidnapped. his atitude of oh she'll be ok wasn't & didn't sound like Roland. which i'm sure he later regretted.

Who was the most disgusting character in this book? that would be Rhea she was pure evil & for me the MOST hated character, Roland should have shot her ass dead when he had the chance.

What do you think about Jonas and Coral's relationship? What was it like? Do you see any depth in it? i never gave it much thought actually. she was a sick twisted bitch & he was a sick twisted bastard so it really didn't matter to me if they hooked up or not.


Whose death made you the happiest? actually since we didn't get to actually see Cordelia die. but just later learn about it, i'd say Jonas actually.


Which was your favourite part? prolly the final fight with Jonas & his gang well part of it anyways, the 1st time we see Roland & his gang in Action. that was as i said already said fucking awesome.

who my favorite character is? that would be Cuthbert, he was funny as hell & i think it was a mistake that sai King Killed him, i know he lives in this book but i'm just talking about at some point.

BigSchu22
07-15-2012, 08:22 PM
So, I just drove by Gage Park the other day and took a few quick pictures of Charlie the Choo-Choo and a bit of other things around the park if you guys wanted me to post here or another thread...

Jean
07-15-2012, 09:35 PM
post it in this thread (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?5580-Have-you-seen-it-The-Dark-Tower-in-real-life)

it seems to be there is another, more general, thread for real-life DT pictures (not only the tower itself), I'll either merge them when I find it or will move your pictures there. I just don't want them to be lost

if you find the other thread before I do, post there

BigSchu22
07-20-2012, 06:47 AM
Thanks, will do soon!

Ross
04-20-2015, 06:19 AM
On a scale of 1-10 I would give this one a 10. It is, so far my favourite King book.

My Favourite part - When Roland, Cuthbert, and Alain are riding up behind the gang. Cuthbert starts by taking out the first three with his slingshot.... Aside from the part in the Rest when the boys first encounter the Big Coffin Hunters, this is when we get our first glimpse of them in action and fully understand just how badass the Gunslingers are.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland - Ka. . He is a young, good looking stranger with good manners that shows up during a time when she is at a low point (father dead and knowing she is going to be with an old greasy man)

What did I feel when Susan was dying - I felt horrible.. As I read the last pages leading up to it I just kept hoping that Roland would save the day. Or Sheemie, or someone. It wasn't until she was praying to her father, not for rescue or salvation, but for Roland's safe passage that I knew she was going to die. After that all I could think of was how I wanted Roland and his crew to come back to town and kill Cordelie and Rhea, and whoever else was blind enough to let it all go down the way it did.

Rolands biggest mistake - Leaving Susan and Sheemie in the bad grass shack while they went to take out the gang. He knew Rhea was able to watch from the glass. He should have had them follow behind or at least stay within striking distance.

The most disgusting character in my mind was either Cordelia Delgado or Coral Thorin. Not sure why exactly but for me these two could have made the right decisions but instead insanity/greed let them push the path forward for the ultimate demise of Susan, and ultimately Roland's humanity.

Coral and Jonas - I think their relationship was just a way to help build their characters up so that the reader could better understand their motives. They are animals and they are both in it for the same thing "Greed"

Whose death made me the happiest - Jonas being shot in the face was nice, so was the last part when the Farson boys walking willingly into the Thinny. But I think (although there was not much description) that when they say that Cordelia died shortly after they burned Susan. I like to think that she had a brief bout of sanity which allowed her to realize what she had done, and that is what killed her.

Ross
04-20-2015, 12:21 PM
I posted my thoughts yesterday but they never showed up. I hope they dont show up twice now as I have been reading many of the previous posts and my thoughts on some things have changed.

On a scale of 1-10 I would give this one a 9. So far it has been my favourite of the 4 I have read. Starting Wind through the keyhole tomorrow. It was nice to learn more about Roland's early years and his first love.

My favourite part - Probably when Roland, Cuthbert, and Alain take down the Big Coffin Hunters. Cuthbert taking out the first 3 with his slingshot, etc... Really showed just how badass these guys are/were. And at 14, it helped put into perspective just how badass Gunslingers are in general.

That and the part when they get caught by Jonas at the Bar K and Roland confronts Jonas and lets him know that he knows who he is and that he will be in the "West" forever.

Why did Susan fall in love with Roland - In the real world I would have to agree with the masses in that they are teens and under her current circumstances it would have happened whether it was Roland, Cuthbert, or Alain. Being a King book however, I think it was Ka, and that they were destined or ordained to fall in love by a higher power (Crimson King maybe as way of potentially turning away from his quest of reaching the tower).. Who knows, I just finished Wizard and Glass so I assume I have a lot to learn yet.

When Susan died I was at first angry that she wasnt saved. Then sad, then angy again and hoped that the next chapter would be about how Roland came back to Hambry and cleaned up the town with his guns. Overall it was sad and I thought about it for hours after reading it.

Rolands biggest mistake - Assuming the glass was showing him everything and now just what it wanted him to see. And leaving Susan and Sheemie in the bad grass knowing that Rhea was able to see things with the glass.

Most disgusting character in my mind would have to be Cordelia Delgado. For obvious reasons..

Jonas and Coral - Purely for sex. And to build their characters so that everyone was certain they were both horrible people.

I was most happy reading about Cordelia dying after the fire. Her and Jonas getting shot in the face was nice.

Girlystevedave
04-21-2015, 10:10 AM
My favourite part - Probably when Roland, Cuthbert, and Alain take down the Big Coffin Hunters. Cuthbert taking out the first 3 with his slingshot, etc... Really showed just how badass these guys are/were. And at 14, it helped put into perspective just how badass Gunslingers are in general.



Yes! Cuthbert is a badass. I loved his character. :thumbsup: