We tend to think of The Tower as a sentient being *spoilers*

[razz]

-

[Ves'Ka Gan]

I think of it as a semi-sentinent being. I feel like it has to have some awareness to "know" that it was Roland coming up the stairs and "know" to throw him into the loop again.

I think a few people here have implied that they believe Gan controls the Tower...

It is interesting to think that it could be a collective mind though. Any input as to why you think these are possible explainations? I'm interested.

[fernandito]

Gan doesn't control the Tower, Gan is the Tower. The Tower is a physical manifestation of Gan in the world.

[razz]

then why don't we use the phrase "Gan" instead of "The Tower"

[Mark]

Because Gan isn't JUST the Tower. The Tower is the physical embodiment of Gan, but not the spiritual one.

[razz]

"it may not have a brain, but the beast in the pit is still the beast in the pit"- Doctor Who, The Satan's Pit, BBC, circa 2007 or so, as Wireman would say

[Ves'Ka Gan]

Leave it to you, Razz. I would have never drawn the camparison from the Satan Pit to the tower, but now that you've pointed it out, they do seem like they could be VERY similar, although probably opposites.

[razz]

you know i can never resist a DW quote, Ves

[Ves'Ka Gan]

Well, like I just said to you in PM (but I can't resist sharing here) the interesting thing about your comparison is that the Pit was a prison for the Beast, but in the end we find out the Beast only existed because people believed in the Beast.

Perhaps Gan and the Tower only existed because people beleived. Maybe the Beams were failing and the Tower was in jeopardy because as the world moved on, the Tower and Gan were fading from the forefront of people's minds....[/mindbend]

[razz]

but also the (apparently like the tower) is just a shell for the mind, and the mind doesn't really need it as long as it has another host, so there are differences. Gan can exist without the tower, but the world can't exist without the tower, and the tower can't exist without the beams or Gan.

[Darkthoughts]

Have either of you read the Gunslinger Born comics? You need to read the comics rather than the hardback compliation, because the hardback doesn't include the extra material the comics have which is very interesting in relation to DT history, metaphysics etc.

Heres what they say about Gan: *The Dark Tower - Gunslinger Born spoilers - various issues*






In issue one, the backstory is Vannay teaching Roland, Cuthbert et al, about the Tower. He asks Roland to tell the class who Gan is. Roland replies
The Dark Tower. The Tower is Gan, and Gan is the Tower.

In issue two we learn how Gan arose from the Prim:

First to erupt from the depths of the Prim was Gan, spirit of the Dark Tower. Tall and grey-black, he pushed into the sky, the windows that spiraled round his barrel flashing with an electric-blue light.

It goes on to explain how he creates the universes from the waters of the Prim that poured from his navel. The waters recede leaving behind many demons - one of them being Maerlyn.

In time, the people that lived in the worlds included a powerful empire called Imperium. They claimed lordship over all space and time, but to truly control it they knew they had to conquer the Tower. They went to destroy and then rebuild it, but to the amazement of the architects and builders
Not only was the Tower more imposing than they had realized, but what they had taken for stone was actually hardened flesh.

They still try to pull the Tower down, but the result is that there is a beamquake and "todash fog" rises from the ground releasing monsters of the todash space and causing thinnies to appear throughout the worlds.
the various factions of men blame each other and war breaks out, eventually leaving mid world a desolate wasteland.

Gan survives and lets some of his blood fall on the ground, which is how the roses came into existence.

So there you go :) Gan mentally and physically is the Tower.

[Unfound One]

Lisa, thank you so much for summing all of that up!

So... the Tower is Gan, Gan is the Tower. In fact, the tower is Gan's flesh. Interesting, since he survives battle and bleeds to create the roses, does this mean the tower bled? Or can/does Gan/the Tower take different forms?
Or is this a question for another thread? Cry pardon...

[Darkthoughts]

The actual wording of the comic (which is now back on my bookshelf and I can't be bothered to go fetch it :lol: ) makes it clear that Gan let his blood fall on the ground on purpose and that yes, the blood fell from the hard flesh of the Tower/Gan.

I don't think (from all the DT stuff I've read so far) that I've ever read of Gan taking any other form.
Like the Turtle, Maturin, Gan seems to be a telepath and is able to send his thoughts out to those who are intune with his song. Perhaps thats why there is the assumption that Gan is independant from the Tower?

Even before Gan emerged from the Prim it seems that he had this shape/body/form - being that of the Tower. It doesn't say (in the comic) that he creates the Tower around himself or anything of that nature, it simply describes the Tower/Gan arising.

[mia/susannah]

Gan doesn't control the Tower, Gan is the Tower. The Tower is a physical manifestation of Gan in the world.

I agree with you. :thumbsup: