do you think Steven knew...spoliers

[mallory]

DO you believe that Rolands father knew Roland would kill his mother?

Personally I do. I think his dad sat there for two years while Mearlyn seduced his willing wife and finally snapped. He had to know what would happen. He had to know because of the Ball. I think he was so bitter that he welcomed it...

[Letti]

I don't think he knew it. If he had known it he would have tried to avoid it. He loved his wife and he did love his son so I don't see why he would have been pleased to see such a tragedy.
I might be wrong but I think of Roland's father is a wise and good man.

[Brainslinger]

I was also thinking that it wasn't that long after Roland returned to Gilead that he killed his mother, so Steven wouldn't have had enough time to see his wife's fate.

However, his father might have had a peek...

I think he would have taken measures to stop it though. I think he still loved his wife even though he new of the affair with Marten.

[MonteGss]

Steven was a noble, good man. I don't think he knew what Roland would do. I don't think Steven even looked into the ball either.

[The Lady of Shadows]

i think i have to agree with roland's take on this. i think it's possible his father knew something was going to happen and would have let ka progress as it might.

i don't think he knew exactly what the outcome would be, but i do think he knew something bad was going to take place during a meeting between roland and gabrielle. but that doesn't mean he knew exactly when and where. just because he knew something was going to happen, at some point, doesn't mean he was capable of doing a thing about it.

also, i think steven deschain was a believer in ka and wouldn't have intervened for fear of something worse happening.

[Letti]

I am sure he believed in ka but he knew there were situations when you had to act. For example when he visited his son at the whore's flat and he told him the truth and warned him.
So Steven wasn't that type of guy who was sitting in his armchair when death or danger was on its way.

[The Lady of Shadows]

i agree with that completely letti. but like i said, i think it's possible that he knew something was going to happen in a meeting between the two; but he didn't know what or during what meeting. what good is that information? what can you do with it? can you keep them apart forever?

it'd be like calling the police today and telling them that you know that something bad is going to happen, between X and Y, somewhere. well, yes. but that's not very helpful. what's going to happen? when is it going to happen?

[mia/susannah]

I agree turtlesong. Steven may have known something was going to happen but I don't think he knew that would happen and he would have tried to stop it if he had known for sure

[ManOfWesternesse]

No, I don't think Steven had any forewarning at all about that happening.
If he had he would have gone to great lengths to ensure it did not happen - for both thier sakes.

[sarah]

I don't think he knew either. I know that he loved Roland. Why would he knowingly do that to his own son? If he really snapped, why wouldn't Steven have killed her himself?

[jayson]

i also don't think stephen knew. i can't imagine if he did he'd have not tried to take some action to prevent it.

[The Lady of Shadows]

oh come on, even roland thought his father knew something was going to happen. maybe not what or when (as i already said), but something and he let ka take its course. how can we not believe if he believed?

"My father knew a great many things, but he sometimes kept what he knew to himself."
"Like him knowing that your mother and Marten were seeing each other," Susannah said.
"Yes."
"But, Roland . . . you surely don't believe that your father would knowingly have allowed you to . . . to . . . "
. . .
"Have knowingly allowed his son to kill his wife?" he asked. "No, I can't say that. Much as I'd like to, I can't. That he should have caused such a thing to have happened, to have deliberately set it in motion, like a man playing Castles . . . that I cannot believe. But would he allow ka to run its course? Aye, most certainly."

Wizard And Glass
italics in original

[obscurejude]

Good quote Turtlesong, I agree with you.

[Letti]

Did Roland and hos father know each other at all? I mean deeply... Roland had such an interesting relationship with his parents.

[Brice]

I think with the gunslingers it was a bit different then with normal folk. I mean yeah, I'm sure Steven loved his son and all, but I think the whole gunslinger thing carried by neccessity a sort of almost detachment with it too.

[Matt]

I agree, and I think all "royalty" is like that to a certain extent.

[Scar]

I do think that Roland's father knew Roland would kill his mother. I think that when Stephen saw what was to come he could have changed or interrupted ka, but it would be easier on Stephen to let his son kill. If it was to be, then let it be. It was meant for Roland to bear this burden, not him.

John

[wizardsrainbow]

VERY interesting debate going on here. Both sides have made good points and Turtlesong's direct quote does in fact leave the door open.

But also consider this.... Roland took his right of manhood (gunslinger) test early because of his discovery of Marten/Gabrielle, thereby weaving Roland intricately into that triangle. Steven also knew that Roland was stubborn, willful and was destined for a long, hard and lonely life. I can imagine that Steven had some foreshadowing of Gabrielle's death by Roland's own hand and a) refused to try to change ka and b) had some perverse belief that as painful as it would be to both Roland and himself to let ka proceed, the matricide would serve to toughen Roland for the long rigorous path that Steven knew Roland would travel in life.

[Matt]

I can get on board with that. Also the sheer nature of the situation may have lead Steven to believe that at one point, it would come down to violence as it always does.

[mallory]

I do think that Roland's father knew Roland would kill his mother. I think that when Stephen saw what was to come he could have changed or interrupted ka, but it would be easier on Stephen to let his son kill. If it was to be, then let it be. It was meant for Roland to bear this burden, not him.

John

i have to agree with this..I know Stephen was a noble man, however he did go the whores bed and all .. I think he could have stopped it, being busy and all really doesnt have a voice when it comes to things such as that. After all the reason Roland was such a young Gunslinger was because of his Mother and Marten. I dont know its Ka.it was the way it was supposed to be..

[Brainslinger]

. . .
"Have knowingly allowed his son to kill his wife?" he asked. "No, I can't say that. Much as I'd like to, I can't. That he should have caused such a thing to have happened, to have deliberately set it in motion, like a man playing Castles . . . that I cannot believe. But would he allow ka to run its course? Aye, most certainly."

Wizard And Glass
italics in original

I forgot about that quote, definitely adds a whole other side to the argument. So maybe he did peep in the grapefruit then?

Anyway, I'm still not convinced Steven didn't know, but if he had known... I'm not so sure he wouldn't have allowed it to play out...

[mia/susannah]

VERY interesting debate going on here. Both sides have made good points and Turtlesong's direct quote does in fact leave the door open.

But also consider this.... Roland took his right of manhood (gunslinger) test early because of his discovery of Marten/Gabrielle, thereby weaving Roland intricately into that triangle. Steven also knew that Roland was stubborn, willful and was destined for a long, hard and lonely life. I can imagine that Steven had some foreshadowing of Gabrielle's death by Roland's own hand and a) refused to try to change ka and b) had some perverse belief that as painful as it would be to both Roland and himself to let ka proceed, the matricide would serve to toughen Roland for the long rigorous path that Steven knew Roland would travel in life.

Very well said. That is very interesting. I never thought of it that way:rose:

[wizardsrainbow]

VERY interesting debate going on here. Both sides have made good points and Turtlesong's direct quote does in fact leave the door open.

But also consider this.... Roland took his right of manhood (gunslinger) test early because of his discovery of Marten/Gabrielle, thereby weaving Roland intricately into that triangle. Steven also knew that Roland was stubborn, willful and was destined for a long, hard and lonely life. I can imagine that Steven had some foreshadowing of Gabrielle's death by Roland's own hand and a) refused to try to change ka and b) had some perverse belief that as painful as it would be to both Roland and himself to let ka proceed, the matricide would serve to toughen Roland for the long rigorous path that Steven knew Roland would travel in life.

Very well said. That is very interesting. I never thought of it that way:rose:

Thank you. I amaze myself sometimes. :lol:

[Spencer]

Steven was a noble, good man. I don't think he knew what Roland would do. I don't think Steven even looked into the ball either.

I don't think so either. One of the most disappointing parts of the series is how we're constantly reminded that Gunslingers should never forget the face of their father, yet we're only given a cursory glance at the face of Roland's father.

[theyspunaweb]

That's cause Roland's father is Steven...Stephen King! King created him! what more do we need to know?

ok that was just cheesy. And I'm sorry that it had to be one of my first posts. But I was actually meaning to post anyways that it was interesting that King decided to name Roland's father figure...the same as himself. Reasoning behind it? I agree with you Spencer, it would really be nice to know more about him.