Rose Madder - Let's Discuss! *SPOILERS*

[HanzouNorak]

i feel a bit odd posting this because im a guy but, i really liked RoseMadder and felt that it deserves its own thread atleast. the book is not for the faint of heart, and is rather graphic even by King's standards, but its really good seriously worth a read.

soooo........................... opening comments?

[Wuducynn]

i feel a bit odd posting this because im a guy but, i really liked RoseMadder and felt that it deserves its own thread atleast. the book is not for the faint of heart, and is rather graphic even by King's standards, but its really good seriouly worth a read.

soooo........................... opening comments?


:lol: I love the assumption that to be a fan of Rose Madder you have to be a chick. I'm a huge fan of this book and thanks for starting the thread. Now when does the crying and hugging and talking about feelings start? *goes to get the tea*

[John Blaze]

hey I love this book, count it amongst my favorite King books, and I'm a dude too.

but no hugging and crying here, Homie don't play that.

[Jean]

I wonder if we are ever going to see any lady here

<- loves Rose Madder, too

[ManOfWesternesse]

I read Rose Madder back when it was published, and did not really get a feel for it at all. Unlike almost all my King books - I never bothered with a re-read, for many years.
Then last year I re-read it .... and thought it was extremely good! Don't know what my first-time-round perspective was - but it was faulty. Would now count this as one of Kings good ones (which is almost all of them!)


ok - that's 5 men all voting a big 'yes', and not a woman in sight.
'Rose Madder's rep is taking a BIG hit here! :lol:

[Disturbed Angel]

I loved Rose Madder - its one of my favourites.
When I finished, I went straight back to the begining and started again :thumbsup:

It gets a re-read at least once a year - and I'm a girl :dance:

[Jean]

a girl! at last

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_flower.gif

[Girlystevedave]

Okay, I'm a girl....and I really enjoyed Rose Madder. I've actually re-read it a couple of times. To this day, I still think Norm was one of the sickest fictional monsters ever created. And makes any man seem like Prince Charming. :lol:
"I wanna talk to you up close" (**shudders)

[Wuducynn]

I still think Norm was one of the sickest fictional monsters ever created.

For me he is the sickest fictional human monsters ever made...totally agreed.

[jayson]

I read Rose Madder back when it was published, and did not really get a feel for it at all. Unlike almost all my King books - I never bothered with a re-read, for many years.
Then last year I re-read it .... and thought it was extremely good! Don't know what my first-time-round perspective was - but it was faulty.

Brian, the same happened with me and Rose Madder. The first time I hated it and figured I would never read it again. I waited a few years and decided to give it another try. Now I can't figure out why I didn't like it the first time. It's def a great book, and I agree with Amanda and Matthew, Norm is one twisted scary individual.

[jhanic]

The beginning of this book has to be one of the most brutal scenes I've ever read. And, as you all said, Norman is a true monster.

That said, I feel King "lost his way" in this book. I think it would have been MUCH more powerful had the supernatural scenes been omitted and become a straight crime novel. The transition from the true monster, Norman, to "Ze Bull" just didn't ring true with me. Imagine it as a Richard Bachman book!

John

[mia/susannah]

I love Rose Madder. I have to buy the book and reread it when money problems straighten out

[John Blaze]

The beginning of this book has to be one of the most brutal scenes I've ever read. And, as you all said, Norman is a true monster.

That said, I feel King "lost his way" in this book. I think it would have been MUCH more powerful had the supernatural scenes been omitted and become a straight crime novel. The transition from the true monster, Norman, to "Ze Bull" just didn't ring true with me. Imagine it as a Richard Bachman book!

John

sadly, I do not agree with you, even though I usually do.

I think Ferdinand MADE the fucken ending.

[Wuducynn]

The beginning of this book has to be one of the most brutal scenes I've ever read. And, as you all said, Norman is a true monster.

Agreed



That said, I feel King "lost his way" in this book. I think it would have been MUCH more powerful had the supernatural scenes been omitted and become a straight crime novel. The transition from the true monster, Norman, to "Ze Bull" just didn't ring true with me. Imagine it as a Richard Bachman book!

John

Don't agree. The supernatural element was one of the things I love about this book. Especially the painting changing bit by bit into a window into another world, and the trips she made to the temple. Just wonderful stuff.

[Girlystevedave]

I still love that it took something as simple as that single drop of blood to make her change her life completely. It was sick...yet beautiful IMO.

[ZoNeSeeK]

This was the book that got me into stephen king in the first place. and yes i have a penis too.

[nordh]

I didn't find this book that brutal or upsetting as I sometimes find Kings work. Take Geralds Game for instance, that's the one book that I think few people have the guts to read straight through without feeling sick in their stomach.

I think that the pseudo reality of Rose Madder made that book lose a bit of the brutality for me. Don't get me wrong, Norman was a lovingly disturbed character, and a perfect monster of the tale. I did enjoy the book, but I can't say I felt very excited after having read it.

[blaineworshipper]

I read it a couple of years ago and I wasn't very enthusiastic about it, so it got put on the shelf among all the other books and was practically forgotten.

Then a couple of months ago I was talking to a friend who likes it and he encouraged me to give it a second go. I did...and that time round, I absolutely loved it and is become one of my favourite books.

[John Blaze]

Take Geralds Game for instance, that's the one book that I think few people have the guts to read straight through without feeling sick in their stomach.


sick of boredom, maybe. GG is slow but entertaining, but it's not one of his best. Rose Madder is.

[Heather19]

I might have to give this book another shot, as several of you enjoyed it on a reread. I read it when it first came out, and did not care for it whatsoever.

[Wuducynn]

I read it when it came out also, and loved it then, but loved it even more with my most recent reading. Which was actually a listening. The audio book is one of the best I've ever listened to.

[Heather19]

Maybe I'll give that a shot then.

[Bethany]

i love rose madder.
norman is one sick bastard, but not the sickest i've ever encountered (sadly).
i hated the way ended though. i could have lived with out the remembrance tree or whatever the crap it was called.

[Wuducynn]

i could have lived with out the remembrance tree or whatever the crap it was called.

Why?

[John Blaze]

because the whole rage issue and the tree wasn't needed.

[Wuducynn]

Why do you feel it wasn't needed?

[HanzouNorak]

i never much thought of it as uneeded, but i found it rather pointless and overall useless. i just cant figure out why she had the rage or what it even had to do with a fucking tree.

[Wuducynn]

If something is pointless and useless doesn't that amount to the same as un-needed? Seems to me it does. Lets see, she was beaten to the point where she was this man's slave for fifteen years thereabouts...and you can't figure out why she would have any rage? The tree was a place where she was able to go to deal with that rage.

[John Blaze]

It just didn't go with her personality.

[Wuducynn]

Her personality as we knew her throughout the book, but she was able to let go of her fear and she had a lot of rage towards Norman. Seems to go with her personality at the end.

[Ves'Ka Gan]

Wow, reading this thread I think I need to re-read it...I don't remember a lot from the book, other than I had a very disturbing dream where in I was in Norm's place, in the scene were he is chewing the (police officer's??) face off. *heebie jeebie!*

I did like it a lot...but it seems like second time's a charm with this one so I'll have to dig it out...

[The Lady of Shadows]

i just got this audiobook (even though it's on cassettes). i'll just have to dub them onto cd, then put them on my computer to transfer onto my ipod.

the opening scene is horrifying. and the description of her going back to sleep - and sleeping for 14 more years - is so apt. sometimes that really is what it feels like - sleeping through it all. and i love the "pooh's chair" scene. that she calls it that and doesn't even realize that she probably calls it that because it calls to mind safety and warmth.

i have sometimes wondered if norman wasn't tom rogan's twinner. did anyone else feel that when they were reading the book?

[mdcphoto]

I'm a guy and I loved this book. I enjoyed it and though the super natural brought a cool added element to the book.

[HanzouNorak]

eh, i find Tom Rogan to be much lighter than Norman, theres a difference between a wife beater and a totally insane wife beater.

[theBeamisHome]

This is one of my absolute favorite King stories. Norm is the greatest monster ever created because he's a real monster, one that many women have actually lived with. And as someone who's seen this kind of thing first and a half handed (long story lol) I can attest to the fact that the rage thing and the tree made perfect sense. Like the Crimson King said, after 15 years of that kind of abuse, rage builds up... no matter what kind of personality you have.. I am an extremely calm person (almost to the point of fault... I got my purse snatched from me and once and barely batted an eyelash. the cop asked me what i'd been drinking lol), but I often have feelings (mostly through dreams) which lead me to believe that I may have some serious rage issues.. sometimes its funny... other times scary. And I've never been in a fight in my life (lucky for anyone who'd want to fight me). So I guess reading this novel I saw a lot of myself in Rosie, but it's so powerful I think anyone can like it... except maybe a Norm lol...

Oh look at me rambling.... ummm anyone that hasn't read it... give it another (or a first) chance. I fell in love on my first read.

[The Lady of Shadows]

:cry:

had to send my tapes back to the ebay seller. one of them was twisted and wouldn't play. very sad since i didn't even know that rm was available as an audiobook and then i found it and now i don't have it anymore.

:cry:

i had just gotten to the part where norman was sitting in the park squeezing the tennis ball (should i be more specific?? :) )

now i'm searching again. oh, on the bright side the ebay seller refunded my purchase price, shipping, and the money i spent to send the defective tapes back to him. totally didn't expect my shipping costs back. what a great guy! :rose:

[theBeamisHome]

that's good. did they get damaged on the way to you you think?

[The Lady of Shadows]

that's good. did they get damaged on the way to you you think?

i don't think so. maybe during the rewind. he said he only listened to them once and that's probably true. they looked and sounded pristine. but sometimes if the tape head catches a tape just right. . . .

very sad. so i'm on the prowl if anyone hears of anything. :)

[PixelJuice]

I would love to know the mythology behind the "people in the picture". Yes, the Minotaur, but it doesn't follow the story of the Minotaur. Who is the veiled woman and her companion? Who is the baby? Do we know them from other stories - King quotes RM as being a DT tale. Any ideas?

[PixelJuice]

Incidentally, yes it is a great novel. I enjoy the ones that make me sit back and think as well as the plain terrifying ones.

[Tiffany]

I loved it the first time and every time after.

Regarding the rage thing...I thought that because she kept the seeds when she was told not to was why she began to lose it a bit. Wasn't she warned by Rose Madder not to keep them?
That was how I interpreted her rage, anyway.

Dorcas and Rose Madder did spend some time in Lud, didn't they?

[TheFisherman]

It wasn't may favorite book, but it was still a good read.
Norm is one of Kings best antagonists and has one of the creepiest catch phrases King has ever wrote.
"I want to talk to you up close"

[theBeamisHome]

That line always made me squirm. This story always made me physically uncomfortable, which is why I love it so much lol

[Darkthoughts]

Tiffany - yes, they had been in/travelled through Lud.

[The Lady of Shadows]

I loved it the first time and every time after.

Regarding the rage thing...I thought that because she kept the seeds when she was told not to was why she began to lose it a bit. Wasn't she warned by Rose Madder not to keep them?
That was how I interpreted her rage, anyway.

Dorcas and Rose Madder did spend some time in Lud, didn't they?

dorcas didn't say anything about the seeds to the best of my recall. i believe that rose madder told her to remember the tree - which to me meant she was supposed to keep the seeds and plant them. but she didn't, which was why the rage overcame her; she hadn't followed through as she was supposed to. once she planted the seeds and the tree began to blossom she was able to remember it (i.e. visit it) and her rage began to dissipate.

also, dorcas gave her the tiny bottle with the drops of the river in it for bill's memory. and when it was empty and rosie got rid of it (toilet) she almost flushed the seeds and that's when she heard rose madder tell her again to remember the tree but she didn't do anything about it until she found the seeds in her purse later.

i may be misremembering who told her about remembering the tree, it's been awhile since i read that book. it's next on my list.

"i want to talk to you. right up close." :scared:

[theBeamisHome]

I just got to the part in IT with Tom Rogan and Norm makes him look sane... even childish...
"I'm gonna give you a whuppin." vs. "I want to talk to you. Right up close."

Norm always wins.

[LemurJones]

Oh... kay. I read Rose Madder a little over 6 years ago, so I didn't really remember all of it too well...

But.... you guys coulda warned miss 4-months-pregnant lemur about the prologue, maybe? ;_; I read the first page and I had to shut the book and walk somewhere else for a while.

[The Lady of Shadows]

Oh... kay. I read Rose Madder a little over 6 years ago, so I didn't really remember all of it too well...

But.... you guys coulda warned miss 4-months-pregnant lemur about the prologue, maybe? ;_; I read the first page and I had to shut the book and walk somewhere else for a while.

awwww. fuck lemur. i totally missed the part where you said you were going to read it. :doh: i'm really sorry. :cry:

are you okay?

[LemurJones]

Well, I'm not the one that it happened to, so I am alright, but... it was way too easy for lemurs with hyperactive imaginations to be all... and... blarg.

Anyway I did go back and read the rest of it except for the bit at the very end, so I was cheered up because of Gert's peepee skills.

[ZGDK]

I want to talk to you. Right up close.

That line makes me shudder. I just finished Rose Madder and loved it. My only complaint is that it just seems kind of random when she enters the painting for the first time. Needed more supernatural IMO.

[The Lady of Shadows]

Well, I'm not the one that it happened to, so I am alright, but... it was way too easy for lemurs with hyperactive imaginations to be all... and... blarg.

Anyway I did go back and read the rest of it except for the bit at the very end, so I was cheered up because of Gert's peepee skills.

didn't gert just rock? :clap:

[Odetta]

Let's make Rose Madder the featured book of the month, since there's already a thread started, we'll just bring it to the forefront for July!

I admit, I have not yet read this book...

[Jean]

I admit, I have not yet read this book...
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_shocked.gif

[Odetta]

I know, I know... shame!

[Wuducynn]

I admit, I have not yet read this book...

I guess you need a spanking and further rough treatment.

[jhanic]

Rose Madder has, in the person of Rose's husband, one of the most despicable villains that King has ever written. The opening chapter is VERY difficult to read without wincing!

John

[theBeamisHome]

yes it's generally agreed among many that Norman is the greatest monster Sai King ever created.

Odetta!!!! You must READ IT!!!!!!!!

[Odetta]

OK... I'll go get it! :)

[Shiv]

I read this one. Norman is quite the deranged character and him being a police officer makes him all the more threatening.

I can't say I enjoyed the book but it was an interesting read. The beginning reminded me of a couple of girls I know who were given 'home abortions' by their guys. I guess i couldn't get past that and let myself enjoy the story as a story.

Strong characters in this story though, I must say.

[The Lady of Shadows]

i did end up getting another set of the audio cassettes. stephen king is really a little too convincing as norman daniels if you want this constant readers opinion. :lol: :unsure: :lol:

it occurred to me that norman might be the only character or creature that king ever referred to as a monster in his writings other than cujo. can that be correct? i know he called cujo a monster (that's the first line of the book). and rosie (and others) called norman a monster. but i can't recall any other person or thing being referred to specifically as a monster, even IT. can anyone else?

[Brainslinger]

I loved Rose Madder too, although I got the impression I was in the minority. Nice to see other people agree with me anyway. I was touched with how sympathetic King was too to the subject matter. I.e. there was a lot of darkness in it, but it wasn't just that for the sake of it, and there was a positive side to it too. It's a shame King himself doesn't like this book much... (at least that's the impression I get. I've read hims stating that he felt he was trying too hard.)

I'd like to know more about who/what the lady in the painting was (actually do I? The ambiguity is interesting isn't it?) and why such a powerful entity couldn't go into he maze and get the child herself. (Apart from the fact they did each other a solid, to quote a certain giant anteater.)

It would be great to cross the paths of those two ladies again. (Although it could be a bit scary.) I used to wonder if they'd turn up in the later Tower books, although that didn't happen.

I didn't quite understand the ending either, although I get why she would be angry. But not getting it, doesn't mean I dislike those parts, it's just something more to think on that's all.

Rose Madder was also the book that got me into the Dark Tower books too. Mainly the references to Ludd.

[Brainslinger]

I loved Rose Madder too, although I got the impression I was in the minority. Nice to see other people agree with me anyway. I was touched with how sympathetic King was too to the subject matter. It's a shame King himself doesn't like this book much... (at least that's the impression I get. I've read hims stating that he felt he was trying too hard.)

I'd like to know more about who/what the lady in the painting was (actually do I? The ambiguity is interesting isn't it?) and why such a powerful entity couldn't go into he maze and get the child herself. (Apart from the fact they did each other a solid, to quote a certain giant anteater.)

It would be great to cross the paths of those two ladies again. (Although it could be a bit scary.) I used to wonder if they'd turn up in the later Tower books, although that didn't happen.

I didn't quite understand the ending either, although I get why she would be angry. That doesn't mean I dislike those parts, it's just something more to think on that's all.

Rose Madder was also the book that got me into the Dark Tower books too. Before then I'd read the backs of a couple of the DT books when browsing book shops, but I wasn't all that fussed about getting them. Then one day I read the back of The Waste Lands, after reading Rose Madder, and I saw the Ludd reference. My curiosity was piqued, so I decided to start at the beginning (where else was I going to start? Doh!) and the rest, as they say, is history.

[jhanic]

I didn't quite understand the ending either, although I get why she would be angry. That doesn't mean I dislike those parts, it's just something more to think on that's all.



It's been shown in a number of studies that the victims of abuse have LOTS of anger within themselves. She was just letting it out in a more or less acceptable way. She didn't go out with a rifle, for example.

John

[The Lady of Shadows]

and it's not just anger. it's guilt and frustration and sadness and loss and helplessness and. . . . plus in rosie's case it's the bleed-over from rose madder. in a very real sense they were twinners i think. god, they were mirror images of each other. king practically slapped us in the face with it.

oh, and i was wrong about king only calling someone/something a monster twice (cujo and norman daniels) {write it down people, i don't admit it often :lol:} richie tozier says there's a moster in derry and it's killing kids when he and bill are in georgie's room with georgie's photo album (the first time).

[darktowerseeker]

yeah, i was a little lost on the rage issue myself. i honestly didn't see it coming, and although it makes sense, I think it could have been omitted.

that being said, I found Rose Madder to be deeply disturbing on a few levels. Not just about Norman; that's a given. I thought it was interesting that she was able to find refuge in the painting, from the woman who was actually a monster herself.

[theBeamisHome]

oooooo irony...

i :wub: Rose Madder

[Brainslinger]

in a very real sense they were twinners i think. god, they were mirror images of each other

I think you're right there. Twinners of a sort anyway. I wondered if the anger was something Rosie caught from Rose Madder too. That's not to say the abuse she suffered isn't a part of it, in fact that'd might be part of this world's manifestation... if that makes sense. The real transformation of Rose Madder being the metaphorical transformation of Rosie Real.

I'm also very curious about the origins of the Rose Madder and Dorcas. And that whole 'Water of life' reference, which supposedly gave them long life... and their turning into something other. Someone suggested in the IT thread that Rose Madder is likely of the same species as IT and the Crimson King. I'd add Dandelo to the list. Not that they're exactly the same species but folk of the prim certainly.

I don't think that's quite true. The book seems clear that Rose Madder (I wonder if that's her actual name?) started off human. I reckon that the folk of the prim are likely behind her transformation though, although it might not be direct. She is becoming. Her spider-like form can't be a coincidence, surely? I think they are of the race of the Great Old Ones (the people of the Emperium, not the Great Ones of the prim) and maybe they took part in some kind of faustian bargain for immortality, or long life at least. They got what they asked for... and a bit more. A few more legs being an example. As long as those ladies know how to use them. Hyuk, hyuk.

Apologies if those ideas were already mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Brainslinger]

in a very real sense they were twinners i think. god, they were mirror images of each other

I think you're right there. Twinners of a sort anyway. I wondered if the anger was something Rosie caught from Rose Madder too. That's not to say the abuse she suffered isn't a part of it, in fact that'd might be part of this world's manifestation... if that makes sense. The real transformation of Rose Madder being the metaphorical transformation of Rosie Real.

I'm also very curious about the origins of the Rose Madder and Dorcas. And that whole 'Water of life' reference, which supposedly gave them long life... and their turning into something other. Someone suggested in the IT thread that Rose Madder is likely of the same species as IT and the Crimson King. I'd add Dandelo to the list. Not that they're exactly the same species but folk of the prim certainly.

I don't think that's quite true. The book seems clear that Rose Madder (I wonder if that's her actual name?) started off human. I reckon that the folk of the prim are likely behind her transformation though, although it might not be direct. She is becoming. Her spider-like form can't be a coincidence, surely? I think they are of the race of the Great Old Ones (the people of the Emperium, not the Great Ones of the prim) and maybe they took part in some kind of faustian bargain for immortality, or long life at least. They got what they asked for... and a bit more. A few more legs being an example. As long as those ladies know how to use them. Hyuk, hyuk.

Apologies if those ideas were already mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Darkthoughts]

The book seems clear that Rose Madder (I wonder if that's her actual name?) started off human.
What particluar quote or passage gave you that impression?

The only ones I could find, by quickly flicking through, that spoke of her life were:

Dorcas says "I was born in slavery, raised in chains and ransomed to freedom by a woman who's not quite a goddess. Her."

And also "She don't mean you no harm, but she ain't got good control of herself no more."

And to me they give the opposite impression - that she has never been human.

I think the only thing that has changed is her sanity, which in turn lessens the control she has over assuming her spider form. In DT, Mordred experienced moments when his body wanted to assume his spider form and it took some effort of will not too (for he feared it would sap his energy too much). I think Rose Madder has become a slave to her emotions, particularly her anger and thats linked to her other form.

[The Lady of Shadows]

The book seems clear that Rose Madder (I wonder if that's her actual name?) started off human.
What particluar quote or passage gave you that impression?

The only ones I could find, by quickly flicking through, that spoke of her life were:

Dorcas says "I was born in slavery, raised in chains and ransomed to freedom by a woman who's not quite a goddess. Her."

And also "She don't mean you no harm, but she ain't got good control of herself no more."

And to me they give the opposite impression - that she has never been human.

I think the only thing that has changed is her sanity, which in turn lessens the control she has over assuming her spider form. In DT, Mordred experienced moments when his body wanted to assume his spider form and it took some effort of will not too (for he feared it would sap his energy too much). I think Rose Madder has become a slave to her emotions, particularly her anger and thats linked to her other form.

darkthoughts - wow. i so completely agree with this it's like you were reading my mind. i think that rose madder has not only become a slave to her emotions, she knows it. she warned rosie how many times about her control over herself (dorcas wasn't the only one passing out the warnings!). but she also knows that rosie will become a slave as well if she is not careful - hence the warning to remember the tree.

perhaps if rose madder had had some vessel to pour her anger into, she would not have gone insane and her emotions would not have been able to devour her. she was warning rosie not to turn into what she was turning into. granted, rosie wouldn't have turned into the exact same thing i don't think. but wouldn't she have turned into something even worse. wouldn't she have turned into norman? she was already showing those tendencies before she planted the seeds that blossomed into the tree.

[Brainslinger]

The book seems clear that Rose Madder (I wonder if that's her actual name?) started off human.
What particluar quote or passage gave you that impression?

Ok, maybe not so clear. ;) Mainly I got that impression from something Dorcas said. She mentioned that she had also drunk from the water of life (or something like that) and she also had what the other woman had, it just wasn't as advanced yet. (I.e. Dorcas is still mostly herself, but she's got some pink skin stuff going on.) I deduced that Rose Madder had taken a drink at an earlier time, hence her change.

That's straight out of my head, so I'll try and find a proper quote for you, and post back here soon.

I like your thoughts concerning the parallel with Mordred and her emotional state too though.

[Darkthoughts]

:D

When Dorcas said that thing, about having what Rose Madder has, I didn't think it pertained to the spidey thing - I just read it to mean the disease she had...perhaps that the disease counters the effect of the water of life?

[kirin]

i liked rose madder although it made a lot of assumptions about the way wife beaters are but it was good and he got what was coming to him :P

i have the viking hardback the edition with the pressed flowers deliberately hid in the page which mentions pressing flowers in "this book" just to freak out the reader

[theBeamisHome]

i don't think it really made assumptions.. some wife beaters are actually like that. i didn't get the impression that King was saying that they're all like Norman. but since it's horror i'm sure he made Norman especially monstrous.

[The Lady of Shadows]

unfortunately, some of them are actually worse than norman. of course, they don't turn into bulls and go hunting their wives down in magical and deadly gardens (at least, i don't think they do). but some of them really could make norman daniels look like a pussycat.

[kirin]

yes i suppose all i meant was that generally the transition is far more subtle it starts with small things like belittling the woman or man in company, isolating them from family they normally build up to the violence do wife and husband beaters, not always but normally

[theBeamisHome]

yeah... i just think we didn't get to see the progression.. they'd already been together for a while when the story started. like in IT Beverly's husband started that shit when they were dating. in an experience i know about in real life it didn't start with belittling, but sort of jumped right into the physical. but not all wife beaters are created equal. :lol:

[Darkthoughts]

Saw the most awesome Rose Madder reference on tv the other day!

The Disney Channel has a cartoon called Phineas and Ferb, which is really funny. In an episode entitled, Greece Lightning; Leave The Busting To Us, they visit a museum exhibit on Ancient Greece and are inspired to hold a chariot race.
Phineas and Ferb's (and Perry the Platypus's) arch nemesis, Doctor Dufenschmirtz tries to sabotage their race using a robot he's made, of a man called Norman. For most of the cartoon Norman wears a bull's headmask and chases the characters...

...aha! Found it!!
YouTube - PhineasAndFerb-Greece Lighting part 1

[Darkthoughts]

YouTube - Phineas and Ferb Greece Lightning Part 2

[Wuducynn]

. For most of the cartoon Norman wears a bull's headmask and chases the characters...

...aha! Found it!!
YouTube - PhineasAndFerb-Greece Lighting part 1 (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ru9ZHdD_e2Y&feature=related)

Wow, that's kind of a bizarre and random. Good catch Lisa.

[jhanic]

That's wild! Great find!

John

[Darkthoughts]

Thanks :D It's funny, because I was originally watching it on tv with my kids and when I started jumping up and down shouting "That's Norm!!" they were like, :rolleyes: "Mum's finally flipped!" :lol:

[theBeamisHome]

guess they just decided to throw something in there the parents might recognize.

[Darkthoughts]

It's good to know there are King fans lurking everywhere :cool:

[theBeamisHome]

i know! i found one in one of my education classes.. she like DT!!! Nigel's mom was a King fan until Pet Semetary i think she said... it got too... idk gory or crazy for her then.. i'm trying to get her back on it.

[Wuducynn]

Thanks :D It's funny, because I was originally watching it on tv with my kids and when I started jumping up and down shouting "That's Norm!!" they were like, :rolleyes: "Mum's finally flipped!" :lol:

"Finally"?? :orely:

[Darkthoughts]

:P *gives CK a wedgie*

[John_and_Yoko]

Just finished Rose Madder.

Wow.

I haven't enjoyed a work by Stephen King like that since Insomnia! :D

[theBeamisHome]

:clap:
another fan!! i wish i had my copy. i'm craving a reread.

[Wuducynn]

Just finished Rose Madder.

Wow.

I haven't enjoyed a work by Stephen King like that since Insomnia! :D

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I've got to listen to it again. I think I'll start tomorrow.

[Jean]

I wish I could start re-reading it right now, but I am reading seven other books at the moment, at least three of which are overdue (Cell for voting, and two others promised to my mother by Sunday).

[Matt]

I enjoyed this book a lot. I need a re read too. :thumbsup:

[Empath of the White]

Norman was a great antagonist. There were a few things I found hard to read though...stuff like what he's do with that tennis racket, his biting, etc. On some level, I felt like Norm had some masculinity problems and it made him all the more interesting in a kind of morbid way. I found some of his dubbings to be pretty funny, like "Thumperstein", "Lesbo Babes in Toyland", etc. They were a nice offset to his fucked up antics.

I have to say this is probably #3 in my top 5 King books, outside of DT1-7.

[theBeamisHome]

the biting was especially scary to me.. idk why it would be scarier than that damn tennis racket, but there's something about it that made him seem.... idk... super like he was some sort of animal or something.. and a possessive vicious animal with police benefits and instincts is just too scary..

[Matt]

I feel the same exact way, the biting was really scary to me. :scared:

[Wuducynn]

I feel the same exact way, the biting was really scary to me. :scared:


Yeah, but admit it, it kind of turned you on too...

[Odetta]

Yay! Just finished reading Rosie Real!
I really enjoyed the book! The biting was the scariest part for me, as well... really sadistic.

So, again with the spider... is the fact that SK uses these spiders disguised as people mean they are all the same spider? Is there a connection?

Or is it just that SK is afraid of spiders which is why they keep recurring?

[Empath of the White]

On the subject of spiders, does anyone think that the baby Rosie saves (DT spoilers) is baby Los?

[Odetta]

I always thought it was the baby she lost.

[Brainslinger]

I always thought it was the baby she lost.

I think it is in a way. I think it is her baby's twinner. I.e. Rose Madder's was born while we know what happened to Rosie's.

[rosie real]

I really want to read this entire thread before making any comments as this is my favorite book by Stephen King.

[jonahwriter]

I can see the faults with this book (King himself referred to it as a "trying-too-hard book" I think and didn't like it much?) but I still like it a lot. It's not in my top 5 but I think it has a lot to offer. I have vivid nostalgic memories of reading the UK hardback as a teenager (the one with the Norman masks/bulls on the cover and the rose with the drop of blood on it inside the endpapers). I re-read it a year or two ago and still found it very intriguing. The mythology bits are a bit undercooked but the pursuit parts are great and I loved the ending (epilogue) where she's staring at the fox, it has some very haunting lines about mortality and motherhood if I remember right.

[Girlystevedave]

I really need to re-read this one. I remember enjoying it, but it's been years since I read it, so I can't remember everything clearly.

I do, however, remember my immense hatred for Norman. Can't forget that. :lol:

[jhanic]

I always felt that the biggest flaw in Rose Madder was the introduction of the supernatural aspect. Continuing the story as a thriller/suspense novel would have been great. Just my opinion.

John

[jonahwriter]

Totally agree with you there John. I was initially intrigued by the painting and the other world but the suspense/pursuit parts are the strongest in that book imo. I'm looking forward to reading "Mr Mercedes" as it's supposed to be straight suspense, no supernatural.

[Jean]

I don't know if I agree. The supernatural part sure isn't the book's forte, but it somehow sets off the thriller/suspense component, which by itself might have seem rather trivial. I wasn't crazy about the book, but it seemed to me that it's exactly the combining - however (maybe intentionally) clumsy - of the two parts either of which is nothing much by itself that makes this novel so strangely beautiful and distressing. I got to reread it, though.

[mae]

The Losers Club episode on the novel, one of my all-time favorites! Exciting!

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/consequence-of-sound/the-losers-club-a-stephen-king-podcast/e/78012847#/