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Wuducynn
04-25-2008, 02:38 PM
The breakers are helped along by a supplement obtained from the brains from one set of twins from the town of Calla. The twins are "available" for this because their ancestors made a pact with the Crimson King to give their first born in exchange for a peaceful and bountiful land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimson_King Third paragraph down from the top.

Does anyone know where this information came from?? I don't remember anything about this pact mentioned in Wolves of the Calla? Is there a different version of WOTC somewhere? :orely: Somehow, I doubt it.

Matt
04-25-2008, 03:27 PM
I have simply never heard of that before Matthew, and I've been through it a few times.

I think if there had been a pact, we would know about it.

That entry should be challenged.

Wuducynn
04-25-2008, 03:33 PM
I have simply never heard of that before Matthew, and I've been through it a few times.

I think if there had been a pact, we would know about it.

That entry should be challenged.

I agree with you. From the way some of the article is typed-out it seems like it might be from someone who is not a native English speaker, and I was wondering if in a foreign version of Wolves of the Calla there was something in it different than the English version. I HIGHLY doubt it, but it just seems so out of the blue to me, that I can't see where this is coming from.

MonteGss
04-25-2008, 03:48 PM
I've only read a foreign language version of one book and that one was not changed in any way. Like you guys, I've never heard of this before and I'd challenge it as well.

Matt
04-25-2008, 03:55 PM
And the saddest part about it is that it's stupid. :lol:

Who would trade their first born for something like that?

Wuducynn
04-25-2008, 03:57 PM
The only thing I can think of was that someone made it up. Why on Earth someone would so such a thing I have no idea. And yes, Matt, the idea just makes no damn sense.

MonteGss
04-25-2008, 03:58 PM
I don't believe the Crimson King would even make a deal like that.

Brainslinger
04-25-2008, 05:49 PM
It looks like it's someone putting in their own theory (or a theory they heard), something that should not be done on wikipedia. Not unless it is stated clearly to be a theory anyway.

I feel half inclined to delete that bit... but I'll leave it.

OchrisO
04-25-2008, 08:07 PM
I don't believe the Crimson King would even make a deal like that.

The whole Charyou Tree sacrifices came from people making deals for bountiful harvest with the creatures of the Prim, so it is possible that he would make such a deal. It has been a long while since i read WOTC, even though it is my favorite of the series, but i do seem to vaguely remember the reason that the Wolves came and got the kids being because of some ancient deal that was made, but I don't recall what the deal was.

Wuducynn
04-25-2008, 08:30 PM
but i do seem to vaguely remember the reason that the Wolves came and got the kids being because of some ancient deal that was made, but I don't recall what the deal was.


If you could find that, because I sure don't buy it for a second. I think what Brainslinger posted is right on the money. Sounds like someone was just presenting their opinion.

OchrisO
04-25-2008, 08:44 PM
*shrug* I don't have time to look for it. I can't imagine why I'd be remembering something like that if there wasn't at least some sort of deal that was made, though.

Wuducynn
04-25-2008, 08:49 PM
Maybe you're thinking of the comics and confusing them with WOTC.

MonteGss
04-26-2008, 06:44 AM
I am not trying to say that I am a DT expert or anything but I do feel if anything like this was present in ANY way, shape or form....I would remember it. I don't believe this idea was present at all and I think the writer of the wiki entry is full of it. :)


What about Bev? Bev, is this idea a bunch of garbage or what? Is there any proof...anywhere (in the books, i mean)?

Brice
04-26-2008, 07:43 PM
I am not trying to say that I am a DT expert or anything but I do feel if anything like this was present in ANY way, shape or form....I would remember it. I don't believe this idea was present at all and I think the writer of the wiki entry is full of it. :)





Well, even if you didn't remember it you'd think more people would if that was the case. Anyhow, I just started a reread of it so, I'll be watching for anything of the sort.

Wuducynn
04-26-2008, 07:50 PM
Keep us posted Brice.

Brice
04-26-2008, 07:52 PM
I will, of course. I honestly don't recall one way or another regarding a pact. I'll be looking for it though.

Wuducynn
04-26-2008, 07:56 PM
I know for sure there isn't. I was just wondering if it was possible a foreign copy might have something in it like that and that is a big stretch.

Brice
04-26-2008, 07:59 PM
Like a bad translation/interpretation?

Wuducynn
04-26-2008, 08:01 PM
Right. If you read the article I posted the link to, the English is typed out as if by someone who is a non-native speaker, so thats what got me wondering. Since including something like that just seemed so bizarre and out of the blue.
When I was reading I actually said out loud..."What the hell??" :lol:

ladysai
04-26-2008, 08:04 PM
There was no pact mentioned in Wolves, I'm sure of it.
Bad information, apparently.

Brice
04-26-2008, 08:08 PM
Right! Makes since to me. I'd suspect a translation wouldn't be that drastically off, but perhaps if a foreigner were trying to read an english copy and lacked the skills for it...


or else perhaps they took too many doses.

Both are valid theories. :rofl:

MonteGss
04-26-2008, 08:10 PM
or else perhaps they took too many doses.


Most likely. :)

Brice
04-26-2008, 08:12 PM
I ain't mad. I just wish they'd have shared. Sounds like they got some good shit. :lol:

obscurejude
04-26-2008, 09:34 PM
And the saddest part about it is that it's stupid. :lol:

Who would trade their first born for something like that?

Were you being serious? I could spout off at least six cultures. Its an idea as old as humanity.

Also, I don't know where it came from, but it makes perfect sense to me.

Brice
04-26-2008, 09:39 PM
Yes, things of the sort have happened.

Wuducynn
04-27-2008, 08:49 AM
Thinking about the events in the end-stories of the graphic novel series, with the folk of Mid-World making pacts with the can-char, or gods of death, from the Prim, which Los' is one of, I suppose something like that very well could happen.
But there definitely isn't any pact mentioned in WOTC or any of the later books, at least in the English version.

obscurejude
04-27-2008, 09:06 AM
I was thinking last night about this some more. Imagine the simple folk of the Callas witnessing the scorching of the sky (thunderclap). It really does make sense, in terms of their reactions. Natural phenoma is usually the culprit in making pacts that involve the sacrificing of children.

No, it isn't mentioned in the books. We all would have caught it for sure.

Brainslinger
04-27-2008, 09:06 AM
The point is, whilst it is possible that it started with a pact (which I personally don't think is the case), there is nowhere in the books that it is stated. If it's not stated, then it shouldn't be put 'as fact' on Wikipedia.

The closest thing to a pact that is mentioned, is the fact that if the Calla folken don't give the wolves their kiddies, the wolves go on a killing spree, and/or take both both twins. That's not really a pact though, just a bunch of heavies pulling their weight, comparable to a protection racket, as in, "give us what we want and you're protected from us."

I do happen to think that it's highly likely the minions of the King may have done something to the Calla folken changing their biology somehow so they only produce twins either by putting something in the water supply or genetic engineering of their ancestors. They might even have made the ground fertile to make sure they flourish, like that rabbit warren in Watership Down which was fed by men so the bunnies got nice and fat and ready for the noose. I'm not convinced of that though, but it is possible considering the barrenness of neighboring Thunderclap.

This is just conjecture by me though, and I would not put it on Wikipedia as fact!

obscurejude
04-27-2008, 09:13 AM
Wikipedia is full of bullshit. I hardly ever cite anything from there in papers. Brainslinger, you shouldn't be surprised. Its an encyclopedia that is open to revision by the nature of its existence. Its a great starting point for a lot of information, but nothing more than a starting point in my opinion. Why don't you challenge the article?

Wuducynn
04-27-2008, 09:17 AM
The point is, whilst it is possible that it started with a pact (which I personally don't think is the case), there is nowhere in the books that it is stated. If it's not stated, then it shouldn't be put 'as fact' on Wikipedia.

The closest thing to a pact that is mentioned, is the fact that if the Calla folken don't give he wolves their kiddies, the wolves go on a killing spree, and/or take both both twins. That's not really a pact though, just a bunch of heavies pulling their weight, comparable to a protection racket, as in, "give us what we want and you're protected from us."

I do happen to think that it's highly likely the minions of the King may have done something to the Calla folken changing their biology somehow so they only produce twins either by putting something in the water supply or genetic engineering of their ancestors. They might even have made the ground fertile to make sure they flourish, like that rabbit warren in Watership Down which was fed by men so the bunnies got nice and fat and ready for the noose. I'm not convinced of that though, but it is possible considering the barrenness of neighboring Thunderclap.

This is just conjecture by me though, and I would not put it on Wikipedia as fact!

That is the point, exactly. I also agree with you about the twins, we've chatted about that in some thread or another on .Com or .Net. Anyway, I'm thinking of deleting it myself.

Brainslinger
04-27-2008, 09:19 AM
Wikipedia is full of bullshit. I hardly ever cite anything from there in papers. Brainslinger, you shouldn't be surprised.

I wasn't surprised. Just expressing my irritation with wikipedia being misused.

Overall I rather like wikipedia, although I agree you have to take much of it with a pinch of salt due to the public edited nature.

I don't even mind too much if people put their opinions on there as long as it is clearly stated that it is just a theory. Really though, theories should be kept to discussion forums such as this.

Letti
04-27-2008, 11:54 PM
The Hungarian translations of the DT books are really good but I know that the translator of the Harry Potter books did take out very important lines and put things into the story.

Wuducynn
05-05-2008, 03:56 PM
Well, the odd entry has been taken out. I'm guessing Brainslinger finally took care of it. Good job.

mia/susannah
05-05-2008, 04:05 PM
I just got through reading Wolves of the Calla. I did not see anything about a deal like that.

Brainslinger
05-05-2008, 06:38 PM
Well, the odd entry has been taken out. I'm guessing Brainslinger finally took care of it. Good job.

I can't take credit for it, but yeah, good one, (whoever you are!)

Matt
05-06-2008, 06:24 AM
My point on it being stupid is not that the calla folk wouldn't try to make the deal, but that the Crimson King would just take your kids if he wanted them with no deal. :lol:

However, I do agree that things could have been assumed like char u tree. Could be the calla folken just decided that's what it was with no explanation.

However, I think its total bullshit overall. Glad its gone.

Brainslinger
05-07-2008, 06:48 AM
My point on it being stupid is not that the calla folk wouldn't try to make the deal, but that the Crimson King would just take your kids if he wanted them with no deal.

True, but there are plenty of stories of evil entities (not necesarily demonic) doing deals with people, giving them what they want for a price. A price that they find way to expensive. Not that they need too, but it places that person under their thumb in ways that just taking won't. That and they just get a kick out of messing with people.Take for example Mr Gaunt from Needful Things and the Sheriff Buck from that short-lived (but interesting) series American Gothic.

There is a particular term for that, but I forget what it is (Faustian bargain?)

Not that I believe that's what happened here. There is certainly no proof so it's good it was removed from the Wikipedia entry.

Matt
05-07-2008, 07:08 AM
Sure, I can see that. I just looked at the situation and considered it really not possible and idiotic. :lol:

I'm glad it wasn't found to be true for sure.

Empath of the White
05-20-2008, 07:43 PM
I prefer to think that the reason the Calla stands out as a paradise in a virtual wasteland is because Los needs healthy twins. I'm sure he had the power to do so. Otherwise I think it'd be an ecotone of sorts, going from the bog to the dead lands of Thunderclap.