Stephen King's new Holly Gibney novel "Holly" (September 5, 2023)

[CyberGhostface]

www.liljas-library.com/article.php?id=6872

It’s a Holly Gibney book in which the coronavirus plays a big role.

[daniel_pyle]

I know a lot of people don't like Holly, but I love her. This is great news for me!

[CyberGhostface]

I like her more than when she first appeared but it’s crazy to think how she’s on her way to surpassing Roland as King’s most used character. Just three more books before they’re tied at eight novels and a novella.

[daniel_pyle]

I like her more than when she first appeared but it’s crazy to think how she’s on her way to surpassing Roland as King’s most used character. Just three more books before they’re tied at eight novels and a novella.

We need a book with both of them! :)

[Merlin1958]

I know a lot of people don't like Holly, but I love her. This is great news for me!

I like her too. Interesting character who deserves more story IMHO

[Ricky]

I'd love another Holly book. A book where the 'rona is a plot point? Not so much.

[kingfan2323]

I know a lot of people don't like Holly, but I love her. This is great news for me!

I like her too. Interesting character who deserves more story IMHOI like her too. Not sure why she is polarizing.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Garrell]

She’s a great character in my eyes. Easy to root for and never bland. I am excited.

[mae]

If it's a COVID-19 book, interesting it's supposed to be sent in 2021 and not 2020.

[Roseannebarr]

I don’t have issues with Holly. It’s just in the past, his books have been mostly new ideas and different. He said it himself in the interview thst he quit reading 3 authors because they became so predictable. I love Connelly, but he uses the same characters over and over. Holly disposed of the last bad “guy” to easily. That was my problem in Dr Sleep too. The main character was able to dispose bad guy - Too easy.

[RichardX]

I don’t have issues with Holly. It’s just in the past, his books have been mostly new ideas and different. He said it himself in the interview thst he quit reading 3 authors because they became so predictable. I love Connelly, but he uses the same characters over and over. Holly disposed of the last bad “guy” to easily. That was my problem in Dr Sleep too. The main character was able to dispose bad guy - Too easy.

I'll read it but not with great enthusiasm. Holly is not very interesting. Recycling a character over and over is a lazy way to write and read books. It avoids having to develop and introduce a new character to an audience. Just plug an existing character into a new plot and hit play over and over again. It's a big tactic in the detective genre. And I definitely agree about the criticism of how easily she disposes of the bad guys. Making great use of a sock.

[CyberGhostface]

It's hardly a case of King reusing Holly to prevent creating new protagonists. After the Mercedes trilogy she appeared halfway through The Outsider which at that point already had its own protagonist and supporting cast. And he's been writing numerous other books during this period. so it's not like every other novel is "the continuing adventures of Holly Gibney".

The reality is King keeps on revisiting Holly because, well, he really likes her: "I just love Holly, and I wish she were a real person and that she were my friend, because I’m so crazy about her." [source (https://twitter.com/simonschuster/status/1253439760691011588)]

[mae]

Plus King has been really into detective fiction over the past several years, so that shows. I don't mind it at all, and I don't think it's copy-pasting, either. Setting a novel in a COVID world sounds cool and urgent.

[Ben Mears]

If SK writes it I'll reserve it at the library (like I have been doing post 11/22/63) and gladly read it.

[St. Troy]

I like Holly; King's use of her in Hodges trilogy/Outsider (I haven't yet read If It Bleeds) felt pretty organic, so no problem for me there (yet).

The COVID factor is another story; I can tell exactly where that is going to go (the attitude, not the plot) and have no interest (I'll read reviews, of course, and it's possible I'll eventually read it, but my default position will be skip unless reviews clearly show that I'm wrong).

[RichardX]

Plus King has been really into detective fiction over the past several years, so that shows. I don't mind it at all, and I don't think it's copy-pasting, either. Setting a novel in a COVID world sounds cool and urgent.

There are more good detective fiction writers than you can throw a brick at. In contrast, there are very few good horror writers. I like both genres but would prefer to see King write more horror or supernatural books because of that and horror is what he does best. Also no one is getting any younger. So for every new Holly book there is one less horror-themed book.

[St. Troy]

I...would prefer to see King write more horror or supernatural books...horror is what he does best.

I feel the same, but I wonder what his most recent true horror work even is; even the supernatural-tinged ones aren't full-blown horror. I think his inspiration (or simply, interest) has lain elsewhere for a while now (not that I'm thrilled about that).

[mae]

I prefer King when he's exploring other genres. I feel like he's done everything there is to do with horror. I read his books for his language and it's comfortable going back to someone whose writing abilities I admire so much, over and over. So plot or characters or genre is almost secondary to me. Obviously, if it's a great unputdownable plot like Under the Dome or 11/22/63, that's all the better. But yeah, I'm sure King won't abandon horror or supernatural stuff altogether until the end of his days, but I'm glad he's getting into other things, other than horror. He's never been a pure horror writer, anyway.

[St. Troy]

I also enjoy the other stuff, but I miss the feelings I got from:

- when the sun was going down near the end of Salem's Lot

- COME HOME COME HOME COME HOME (it gives me goosebumps just typing this)

...to name two. It just feels like it's been a while.

[RichardX]

I...would prefer to see King write more horror or supernatural books...horror is what he does best.

I feel the same, but I wonder what his most recent true horror work even is; even the supernatural-tinged ones aren't full-blown horror. I think his inspiration (or simply, interest) has lain elsewhere for a while now (not that I'm thrilled about that).

Yes, it's been a while since he wrote a true "horror" novel. Revival was touted as his return to horror but that book was a big disappointment. Most of his books have at least some supernatural element, though. It may be somewhat unfair to compare the aging King to the guy from the 70s and 80s but the difference between those books and the tepid novels he has released in the last decade or so is stark. The last King book that I enjoyed was 11.22.63. Hard to believe but I think that was released a decade ago or so. That was a great one that ranks with his best in my opinion. The others since then were not very good and a few were even dreadful.

[RichardX]

I prefer King when he's exploring other genres. I feel like he's done everything there is to do with horror. I read his books for his language and it's comfortable going back to someone whose writing abilities I admire so much, over and over. So plot or characters or genre is almost secondary to me. Obviously, if it's a great unputdownable plot like Under the Dome or 11/22/63, that's all the better. But yeah, I'm sure King won't abandon horror or supernatural stuff altogether until the end of his days, but I'm glad he's getting into other things, other than horror. He's never been a pure horror writer, anyway.

I don't mind him exploring other genres but he's now written several detective/crime books. He is not just exploring that genre, he has taken up residence. Maybe it is nostalgia for his early books, but I find his more recent books to be fairly mundane and boring with characters that are portrayed as laughable stereotypes or hark back to the 70s as though King has been trapped in a time capsule. Kids still playing board games, people giving each other high fives etc. It's clear that King hasn't had much exposure to normal people including kids or minorities in the last couple of decades. And he overcompensates by writing about them as he envisions them to be or as he sees them on TV or through his woke prism. In his early days, King was a great storyteller, but an average writer. Over the years that has flipped. His plots have become mundane, even laughable and his characters are difficult to care about. Just cardboard figures to move the plot. How many characters in Billy Summers went nowhere or were uninteresting? Most of them. I miss the raw power of his early books and stories.

[St. Troy]

Revival was touted as his return to horror...

Revival was a great example of what I mean by a supernatural-tinged one; while bits of that are present, it's generally a slow-burn thriller type thing, not horror at all really. I think that was the one for which King said (pre-release) something like "you'll need to get your nerves ready for this one," and boy was that overselling it. I liked it, but it was no headliner.

[CyberGhostface]

I don't expect a 74-year old man whose children have since all grown up to be "down with the kids" but I had no problem believing the characters in The Institute for example. Likewise with him writing minorities; Jerome wasn't his best character but Kalisha in in The Institute was fine.

As has been said before... I don't think we will ever get something like "It" again. In that sense, he's probably peaked. But the idea that King has lost his touch is completely premature. He's always had his hits and misses. In 2006 he did Cell and Lisey's Story, neither of which are on many King fans' top ten lists (I know Lisey is King's favorite). Then over the next five years he gave us Duma Key, Under the Dome, 11/22/63, The Wind Through the Keyhole and Joyland. Some of those are in my opinion among his best. 11/22/63 in particular seems to be a top five book for many people.

More recently, King has went from Sleeping Beauties which is IMO one of his worst to The Institute which, while not his best, was still a very engrossing and fun novel that kept me hooked throughout. Again, hits and misses.

[St. Troy]

...I had no problem believing the characters in The Institute for example.

My major problem with The Institute was that the characters (mainly kids) felt dry and flat to me, like penciled in "characters" and not real people. This was strange; usually even in his lesser works, King characters feel pretty real to me.

I don't contend that King is out of touch; I might actually prefer that to his current habit of making a point that he's going out of his way to be "with it" (criticizing as "outdated" the idea that a male character in The Institute didn't want to be seen crying in front of others, and woke-isms galore sprinkled throughout that and Elevation). This doesn't ruin his recent fiction for me, but it is distracting, and distractions aren't fiction's friend. It feels mighty contrived and stands out like a strobe light every time he intentionally throws a bone to "newer ideas" as if to say "gee how dumb we all were until the kids handed me these notes 5 minutes ago."

[Hunchback Jack]

Im about 75% through Billy Summers, and hasn't been much of that, if any. It's set in 2019, so some of his characters make passing references to Trump - pro and con. But the younger character wasn't obnoxiously woke - or even very woke at all - and neither was the tone of the book.

I'm not at all concerned about COVID being a plot point of the new book. Our entire society was changed for 18 months - it stands to reason that writers are going to write about it. And no doubt some of King's characters will still complain about Trump ... and some won't. Just like real life.

HBJ

[CyberGhostface]

Right. And King was making political jabs at political figures as far back in The Shining.

On top of that King has always been political. There’s a lengthy chapter in It detailing the homophobia in Maine culminating in a hate crime that was based off a real incident at the time. The abortion debate was a huge part of Insomnia with the climax involving terrorists attacking a woman’s clinic. These are just what come to mind off the top of my head.

The idea of King that King inserting politics into his work as just something he did recently to hop on the ‘woke’ bandwagon is unfounded.

[St. Troy]

While I won't know what's in a particular King novel until I read it, and my hope is that I'm wrong, I think it comes down to how successfully he can keep his Twitter feed out of his work, and based on bits of Elevation, The Institute, and the Hodges trilogy, I'm concerned that he might not.

For the record, I would find it just as dull if I shared his positions (I don't want characters to slap each other on the back and compliment each other's MAGA hats).


Im about 75% through Billy Summers, and hasn't been much of that, if any. It's set in 2019, so some of his characters make passing references to Trump - pro and con.

Normally I wouldn’t expect passing references to be obtrusive, but I’ve heard from someone who started Billy Summers that the 5 Trump references he noted in the first 57 pages caused him to stop reading it (at least temporarily).

I would be very happy to be proved wrong about Billy Summers.


I'm not at all concerned about COVID being a plot point of the new book. Our entire society was changed for 18 months - it stands to reason that writers are going to write about it.

I agree it stands to reason that writers will tackle it, but I doubt his ability (or willingness) to do so without politicizing it (he almost certainly will pick a bone with someone, and it ain't going to be China).

I would be very happy to be proved wrong about this future novel.


…King was making political jabs at political figures as far back in The Shining.

Specific occasional jabs are one thing; ongoing fixation with the specific individual about whom his side of the political spectrum has obsessed for 6 years is another.


There’s a lengthy chapter in It detailing the homophobia in Maine culminating in a hate crime that was based off a real incident at the time.

Homophobia isn’t political (those who disagree on gay marriage agree that violence against gay people is unacceptable); it only becomes political if/when one side tars the other with imagined support for it.

The Mellon incident was notable and informative in the context of It because of what it said about Derry (willingness to ignore witnessed horror, primarily the widespread disappearance of children - also apolitical, unless some thought conservative readers rooted for Pennywise) and what it said about those who attacked Mellon (who acted on behalf of their twisted ideas about, and their insecurity with, their masculinity - not on behalf of the Reagan agenda).


The abortion debate was a huge part of Insomnia with the climax involving terrorists attacking a woman’s clinic.

While abortion battle lines do tend to follow political positions, as you note, those that attacked the clinic didn’t do so because they were conservative, they did so because they were terrorists (not to mention under the influence of "higher level beings" that manipulated characters in order to ensure the death of a particular character).

All of which is to say: while King has done a good job involving and examining social currents in America through things like Mellon, Susan Day, and others, this isn't what readers like myself are referring to.

[St. Troy]

...and I still like Holly.

[St. Troy]

...to take another crack at the dead horse, I suppose everything comes down to the delivery: I found Barlow's anti-capitalist/anti-American rant positively hilarious (Salem's Lot).

[Hunchback Jack]

Normally I wouldn’t expect passing references to be obtrusive, but I’ve heard from someone who started Billy Summers that the 5 Trump references he noted in the first 57 pages caused him to stop reading it (at least temporarily).

I would be very happy to be proved wrong about Billy Summers.


Five references in 50 pages is hardly a manifesto, and the references themselves are (if I recall correctly) more talking about whether a character supports Trump or not, rather than jabs or snide remarks at Trump himself. And the characters aren't divided into good and evil, or into smart and dumb, based on that preference, either. I'm not 100% sure I recall correctly, honestly, because the Trump references barely registered with me. They are not relevant to the story or characters. Anyone offended by those references is looking for a reason to get offended, in my opinion.

But you should read the book for yourself.

HBJ

[Ben Mears]

Under The Dome is SK's most overtly political book with Big Jim Rennie and Peter Randolph as thinly disguised caricatures of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush.

[Hunchback Jack]

For my own interest, I looked up the first five references to Trump in Billy Summers.

I assume these five passages were the five mentioned; I am reading these on Kindle so I don't know the page numbers, but the last one is 12% in which would be about 50 pages.

Spoiler tags, as I don't want to beat the dead horse even deader:


Nick wants to know how Billy’s trip in was. Billy says it was fine but doesn’t say where he flew in from and Nick doesn’t ask. Nick says how about that fuckin Trump and Billy says how about him. That’s about all they’ve got, but it’s okay because by then Macintosh is back with two tall glasses on a tray, and once he leaves, Nick gets down to business.
- A generic snide comment about Trump from one character, with a non-committal response from the protagonist. There's literally no follow-up.


‘That building across the street is mine,’ Hoff says. ‘Only twenty-two stories, but good enough to make it the second highest in Red Bluff. It’ll be the third highest when the Higgins Center goes up. That’s gonna be thirty stories high. With a mall. I’ve got a piece of that one, too, but this one? Strictly my baby. They laughed at Trump when he said he was gonna fix the economy, but it’s working. It’s working.’ Billy has no interest in Trump or Trump’s economy, but he studies the building with professional interest.
- three references: a pro-Trump statement from a supporting character, with no interest from the main character. "Hoff" is cast as a somewhat negative character, but not because of his politics - he is an inexperienced participant adding risk to a dangerous endeavour involving more experienced characters. But he is not depicted as being stupid nor nefarious; he's just a "civilian" in a professional enterprise.


And he doesn’t like what Hoff is doing in this. Aside from Hoff being too out front after the deal goes down, there’s something Nick’s not telling him. Maybe that doesn’t matter. Maybe it does. As Trump says at least once a day, Who knows?
- Could be interpreted as snide, but it's pretty weak. This one did stand out to me as gratuitous, I concede.


Before bed, he unboxes his AllTech laptop, powers it up, and googles Ken Hoff. He’s quite the mover and shaker in Red Bluff. He’s an Elk. He’s in Rotary. He was president of the local Jaycees chapter. Chairman of the local Republican Party during the 2016 election cycle, and there’s a picture of pre-beard scruff Ken wearing a red MAGA hat. He was on the city planning board but stepped down in 2018 after accusations of conflict of interest. He owns half a dozen downtown buildings, including the Gerard Tower, which Billy supposes makes him a kind of Donald Trump Mini-Me. He owns three TV stations, one here in Red Bluff and two in Alabama.
- Reference to the same character, mostly just adding a bit of color to a flatly descriptive paragraph.


He is stunned to discover that Paul and Denise Ragland voted for Hillary Clinton and can’t stand Trump, who they call ‘President Crybaby.’ Proving once more, Billy supposes as he walks home, that you can’t judge a man by his wifebeater.
- Okay, this one I can see as snarky. I'm not sure it's aimed at Trump supporters or Trump directly, but it's definitely a swipe in that direction. But there's no follow-up. The next Trump reference is 100 pages further in the book.


All I can say is: judge for yourself. If I were particularly sensitive to criticisms about Trump or Trump supporters, I might take offense at one of the five references; my own reaction would most likely be to snort derisively and keep reading, though.

HBJ

[shaq]

I like Holly, but find the investigate crimes, supernatural tendencies, find and kill a little formulaic, but I like Kings writing so I will read.

Someone mentioned Roland, and I’m not sure why I went to this thought, but wouldn’t surprise me that one day, she may end up a gunslinger of sorts.

I’d like her stories to be a little less frequent, but he’s the boss.

[CyberGhostface]

Specific occasional jabs are one thing; ongoing fixation with the specific individual about whom his side of the political spectrum has obsessed for 6 years is another.

People are always fixated on whoever the president is. King has done a few digs at Trump but he hasn't written an entire novel with a Trump analogue yet like he did with Bush and Cheney.


Homophobia isn’t political (those who disagree on gay marriage agree that violence against gay people is unacceptable); it only becomes political if/when one side tars the other with imagined support for it.

Having gay characters experiencing homophobia period has been deemed political. I.E. it's with the Christian Right it's "the gay agenda". People were writing negative reviews for Elevation because it was "political" even though it was probably the most softball thing King ever wrote with as much edge as a butterknife. But hey, it's a lesbian couple experiencing prejudice, why does King have to go 'woke' etc,


While abortion battle lines do tend to follow political positions, as you note, those that attacked the clinic didn’t do so because they were conservative, they did so because they were terrorists (not to mention under the influence of "higher level beings" that manipulated characters in order to ensure the death of a particular character).

Even if you are looking at it from as neutral perspective positive (I.e. they're being influenced by a cosmic force to kill someone) you still have pro-life activists attacking an abortion center. One of the main antagonists beats the crap out of his wife because she signed a pro-abortion petition.

If King wrote, in 2021, the same exact book in response to what's going on right now in Texas and the Supreme Court I have no doubt that the people who think King is too political and riding the woke train would attack him for it.

[RichardX]

For my own interest, I looked up the first five references to Trump in Billy Summers.

I assume these five passages were the five mentioned; I am reading these on Kindle so I don't know the page numbers, but the last one is 12% in which would be about 50 pages.

Spoiler tags, as I don't want to beat the dead horse even deader:


Nick wants to know how Billy’s trip in was. Billy says it was fine but doesn’t say where he flew in from and Nick doesn’t ask. Nick says how about that fuckin Trump and Billy says how about him. That’s about all they’ve got, but it’s okay because by then Macintosh is back with two tall glasses on a tray, and once he leaves, Nick gets down to business.
- A generic snide comment about Trump from one character, with a non-committal response from the protagonist. There's literally no follow-up.


‘That building across the street is mine,’ Hoff says. ‘Only twenty-two stories, but good enough to make it the second highest in Red Bluff. It’ll be the third highest when the Higgins Center goes up. That’s gonna be thirty stories high. With a mall. I’ve got a piece of that one, too, but this one? Strictly my baby. They laughed at Trump when he said he was gonna fix the economy, but it’s working. It’s working.’ Billy has no interest in Trump or Trump’s economy, but he studies the building with professional interest.
- three references: a pro-Trump statement from a supporting character, with no interest from the main character. "Hoff" is cast as a somewhat negative character, but not because of his politics - he is an inexperienced participant adding risk to a dangerous endeavour involving more experienced characters. But he is not depicted as being stupid nor nefarious; he's just a "civilian" in a professional enterprise.


And he doesn’t like what Hoff is doing in this. Aside from Hoff being too out front after the deal goes down, there’s something Nick’s not telling him. Maybe that doesn’t matter. Maybe it does. As Trump says at least once a day, Who knows?
- Could be interpreted as snide, but it's pretty weak. This one did stand out to me as gratuitous, I concede.


Before bed, he unboxes his AllTech laptop, powers it up, and googles Ken Hoff. He’s quite the mover and shaker in Red Bluff. He’s an Elk. He’s in Rotary. He was president of the local Jaycees chapter. Chairman of the local Republican Party during the 2016 election cycle, and there’s a picture of pre-beard scruff Ken wearing a red MAGA hat. He was on the city planning board but stepped down in 2018 after accusations of conflict of interest. He owns half a dozen downtown buildings, including the Gerard Tower, which Billy supposes makes him a kind of Donald Trump Mini-Me. He owns three TV stations, one here in Red Bluff and two in Alabama.
- Reference to the same character, mostly just adding a bit of color to a flatly descriptive paragraph.


He is stunned to discover that Paul and Denise Ragland voted for Hillary Clinton and can’t stand Trump, who they call ‘President Crybaby.’ Proving once more, Billy supposes as he walks home, that you can’t judge a man by his wifebeater.
- Okay, this one I can see as snarky. I'm not sure it's aimed at Trump supporters or Trump directly, but it's definitely a swipe in that direction. But there's no follow-up. The next Trump reference is 100 pages further in the book.


All I can say is: judge for yourself. If I were particularly sensitive to criticisms about Trump or Trump supporters, I might take offense at one of the five references; my own reaction would most likely be to snort derisively and keep reading, though.

HBJ

To the extent that any politics needs to be included in King's books (and I'm not advocating that), it would have been somewhat more interesting if Billy Summers, as most military vets, had been portrayed as a Trump supporter instead of detractor. At least more realistic and intellectually honest. But King can't write a book in which a sympathetic main character, even an assassin, is portrayed as having any beliefs that differ from King's own. Thus, only anti-Trump types can ever be the good guy. King is trapped in the woke box and can't get out. The message of Elevation was particularly ironic. Basically that everyone should be more open minded and tolerant of other views. Sounds good. But that only applies when others are deemed to have the "correct" beliefs (i.e. the same as King). So the real message is that conservatives must change their views to be accepted or they are evil and racist. It's kind of humorous to promote tolerance and acceptance while constantly berating and demeaning others who have different views as King has done for years now on Twitter.

[mae]

So the real message is that conservatives must change their views to be accepted or they are evil and racist. It's kind of humorous to promote tolerance and acceptance while constantly berating and demeaning others who have different views as King has done for years now on Twitter.

If someone is racist, that's not a "view" to be open minded about. Tolerance means being intolerant of intolerance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance).

[Ben Mears]

If there were to be any covid related political views expressed in the Holly novel, the year it is set in (2020 or 2021) and the administration in charge at that time should have an impact on those views. If they are intellectually honest, that is.

[CyberGhostface]

If there were to be any covid related political views expressed in the Holly novel, the year it is set in (2020 or 2021) and the administration in charge at that time should have an impact on those views. If they are intellectually honest, that is.

Sure I imagine King will focus on people refusing to take the vaccine and blocking vaccine mandates as being factors in the ongoing pandemic.

[RichardX]

So the real message is that conservatives must change their views to be accepted or they are evil and racist. It's kind of humorous to promote tolerance and acceptance while constantly berating and demeaning others who have different views as King has done for years now on Twitter.

If someone is racist, that's not a "view" to be open minded about. Tolerance means being intolerant of intolerance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance).

That's not the point obviously. The point is King gives the impression that those who have a differing view of politics from him do so only because they are bad people. For example, there are no good Trump supporters in his world. All 70+ million Americans who voted for Trump are white supremacists or uneducated rural hillbillies. You will never encounter a character in King's books who is a decent person and Trump supporter. They will always be depicted in a negative way (i.e. racist or stupid). Obviously, this does not promote the principle of tolerance when you vilify those with differing opinions. Very decent people can have views on abortion, death penalty, immigration, and many other issues that vary from King's without making them evil people. King's definition of tolerance is that others who disagree with him should change their minds. It doesn't work both ways, though.

[Kingfan24]

If there were to be any covid related political views expressed in the Holly novel, the year it is set in (2020 or 2021) and the administration in charge at that time should have an impact on those views. If they are intellectually honest, that is.

Sure I imagine King will focus on people refusing to take the vaccine and blocking vaccine mandates as being factors in the ongoing pandemic.

You might be insane if you think vaccine mandates are a good thing.

[Hunchback Jack]

RichardX, I Won’t requote everything you’ve posted, but I will say in response that I didn’t see much, if any, of this in Billy summers.

There is almost no discussion about Trump or Trump policies, and where there are, it’s just mentioned in passing with no judgment on it. Some characters are described as being Trump supporters or not, but it’s not a reflection on their character, and has no relevance to the story or their role in it. The protagonist himself is ambivalent to Trump altogether. He is not pro or anti-. In the one passage where the protagonist appears to be responding to someone else’s comment about Trump, he seems to be mildly opposing an anti-trump sentiment. But it is left ambiguous.


The idea that someone would throw a book across the room in disgust because of the Trump references is Mind boggling to me. And concerning; the idea that any references to trump in fiction are considered negative if they are not clearly positive is a troubling position for anyone to hold. About any political leader.

I tend to agree with you that king would never make a Trump supporter a protagonist. But I disagree that the way you’ve characterized his writing is reflected in Billy summers. I think the worst example of what you’re talking about is probably Elevation. But in my opinion he’s deliberately avoided any preaching in this novel.

[CyberGhostface]

You might be insane if you think vaccine mandates are a good thing.

I personally don't care whether or not you take a vaccine. You reap what you sow. That's not the point I was making.

[RichardX]

RichardX, I Won’t requote everything you’ve posted, but I will say in response that I didn’t see much, if any, of this in Billy summers.

There is almost no discussion about Trump or Trump policies, and where there are, it’s just mentioned in passing with no judgment on it. Some characters are described as being Trump supporters or not, but it’s not a reflection on their character, and has no relevance to the story or their role in it. The protagonist himself is ambivalent to Trump altogether. He is not pro or anti-. In the one passage where the protagonist appears to be responding to someone else’s comment about Trump, he seems to be mildly opposing an anti-trump sentiment. But it is left ambiguous.


The idea that someone would throw a book across the room in disgust because of the Trump references is Mind boggling to me. And concerning; the idea that any references to trump in fiction are considered negative if they are not clearly positive is a troubling position for anyone to hold. About any political leader.

I tend to agree with you that king would never make a Trump supporter a protagonist. But I disagree that the way you’ve characterized his writing is reflected in Billy summers. I think the worst example of what you’re talking about is probably Elevation. But in my opinion he’s deliberately avoided any preaching in this novel.

My primary criticism with Billy Summers is not the predictable anti-Trump references but the fact that the book is not very good. In fact, some parts are so implausible as to defy belief. I won't go through those in case there are folks who haven't read the book but there are some unintentional laugh out loud moments that makes me wonder if King is living in a time capsule. I think politics plays a role in King's books even when it is not overt. King has put himself in a literary noose with his political rants on Twitter. So he can't explore characters that might not fit his preconceived view of the world. As a result, they become predictable. He has also gotten older and lived the last several decades as a wealthy person making him out of touch. It happens. The Rolling Stones once wrote songs like "Street Fighting Man." After decades of being rich and famous, they wrote "I Got a Brand New Car." I'm a big of King's books going back decades. I'll read even his bad books but he has become a predictable bore in many respects. Some of that is not his fault. Some of it is.

[Hunchback Jack]

The “predictable anti-trump references” aren’t there though.

Honestly, I think your reaction to King’s snide and snarky tweets might be clouding your judgment about his books. You’re interpreting any reference to Trump that isn’t obviously positive as being an anti-trump political statement. It just isn’t, regardless of what the author might personally think.

I agree with you with much of your criticism about other aspects of the book. I’ve spent a good chunk of the last couple of years reading the Parker novels by Richard Stark, and so the position that Billy Summers put himself into is ludicrously risky. So many things could go wrong.

But viewing Billy Summers as an anti-trump screed – or even with an anti-Trump subtext - is seeing some thing that isn’t there, I think. If anything, king seems to be avoiding the whole topic.

[Lurker]

You might be insane if you think vaccine mandates are a good thing.

Then I'm insane and proud of it.

And it's not that Trump supporters have different views - it's that Trump is an anti-American, anti-democracy wannabe authoritarian. My gosh, the idiot is asking for a recount in TEXAS!

[Iwritecode]

If there were to be any covid related political views expressed in the Holly novel, the year it is set in (2020 or 2021) and the administration in charge at that time should have an impact on those views. If they are intellectually honest, that is.

Sure I imagine King will focus on people refusing to take the vaccine and blocking vaccine mandates as being factors in the ongoing pandemic.

You might be insane if you think vaccine mandates are a good thing.

Like the ones we already have for things like polio, mumps, rubella, etc...?

How many vaccines are kids required to have before they can even start school? This is not a new thing.

[RichardX]

You might be insane if you think vaccine mandates are a good thing.

Then I'm insane and proud of it.

And it's not that Trump supporters have different views - it's that Trump is an anti-American, anti-democracy wannabe authoritarian. My gosh, the idiot is asking for a recount in TEXAS!

How is asking for a recount "anti-American"? Didn't Al Gore ask for a recount and claim the 2000 election was stolen? Doesn't Hillary suggest to this day that the 2016 election was stolen by Russian collusion? An outlandish and baseless conspiracy theory. It's fine to say this is pointless, but "anti-American"? This is a great example of how the concept of "tolerance" for other views only goes one way. Dems insist that others must be open minded or accept their belief system. But it doesn't work the other way. In fact, anyone who has a differing view is deemed anti-American or bigoted. By definition having differences of opinion is a fundamental principle of democracy and America.

[St. Troy]

Five references in 50 pages is hardly a manifesto...

Agreed, absolutely.


...you should read the book for yourself.

I definitely will (at some point).

[St. Troy]

Sure I imagine King will focus on people refusing to take the vaccine and blocking vaccine mandates as being factors in the ongoing pandemic.

Sure he'll mention that - as well as China, the CCP, the virology lab, the NIH, and everyone else who helped foster the virus' growth, and everyone who opposed Trump's protective travel restrictions, right?

[St. Troy]

Like the ones we already have for things like polio, mumps, rubella, etc...?

No, not like those, actually: COVID vaccines are experimental ones in emergency use; the others are standards.

[Tommy]

Like the ones we already have for things like polio, mumps, rubella, etc...?

No, not like those, actually: COVID vaccines are experimental ones in emergency use; the others are standards.

All vaccines started off as experiments and not standards.

1954
April 26
Polio vaccine trials begin (https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/polio-vaccine-trials-begin)

[St. Troy]

People are always fixated on whoever the president is.

This country has never seen anything like the anti-Trump attitude.


Having gay characters experiencing homophobia period has been deemed political. I.E. it's with the Christian Right it's "the gay agenda".

That's removed from your It example, which concerned violence and not disagreement with conservatives (you might've thought that's what King was getting at, but that wasn't on the page).

If you change the issue from violence to the conversation surrounding gay issues, it's no longer "homophobia;" it's social disagreement.


People were writing negative reviews for Elevation because it was "political" even though it was probably the most softball thing King ever wrote with as much edge as a butterknife.

That's what happens when you burden a book with "I apologize for being an older white male."


But hey, it's a lesbian couple experiencing prejudice, why does King have to go 'woke' etc,

This perspective has always greatly amused me: the lesbian restaurant is in danger of going out of business, and this obviously must be due to homophobic locals, because new restaurants in small towns in remote seasonal areas opened by outsiders always succeed, right? Classic lazy liberal identity politics thinking (I actually liked Elevation and even I saw this).

Members of aggrieved groups should watch a Chappelle Show sketch called "The Monsters" (I tried but couldn't find a good video); here's a description from a review:


This sketch was presented in black and white, labeled "The Monsters" and featuring Charlie as Frankenstein's monster, Dave as The Werewolf, and Donnell as The Mummy, we got to see just how the world treats these monsters. Appropriately entitled "The System Is Not Designed For Us," this sketch followed how the monsters perceived racism from simple criticism about their monsters qualities (Frankenstein is violent, The Werewolf is naked, and The Mummy is slow).

The point is, if something happens to you, it probably has nothing to do with your "identity."

To the point of this thread/conversation: being lazy enough to think it always is about identity makes for writing that many who think of themselves as King readers will find repellent.


...One of the main antagonists beats the crap out of his wife because she signed a pro-abortion petition...

...but mainly because he (Ed Deepneau) was being manipulated by Atropos (not politics).

[St. Troy]

...it would have been somewhat more interesting if Billy Summers, as most military vets, had been portrayed as a Trump supporter instead of detractor.

King likely would've thought a Trump-supporting Billy would want to set up a post near the border to shoot Mexican or Central American children - the problem is that King (and so many others) consider Trump support absolutely synonymous with racism, hatred, etc. These people won't comprehend this paragraph.

[St. Troy]

All vaccines started off as experiments and not standards.

Of course: first they were one thing (experimental, something you don't mandate), later they became another (standard, something you might mandate). Today, it's particularly important not to confuse these two things.

[St. Troy]

If someone is racist, that's not a "view" to be open minded about.

That's true, but not applicable to the conversation at hand.

98% of those crying "racism" (as well as other "isms" or "phobias") think everything they disagree with is racism (or phobia etc.) - but they wouldn't necessarily suffer this logical/intellectual implosion if they were more openminded about those with whom they disagree.

[Tommy]

All vaccines started off as experiments and not standards.

Of course: first they were one thing (experimental, something you don't mandate), later they became another (standard, something you might mandate). Today, it's particularly important not to confuse these two things.

And when it goes standard, you'll be filled with glee at the vaccine mandates?

[Iwritecode]

All vaccines started off as experiments and not standards.

Of course: first they were one thing (experimental, something you don't mandate), later they became another (standard, something you might mandate). Today, it's particularly important not to confuse these two things.

Honestly, I'm starting to come around to the opinion of just let people do what they want. The facts are there, the science is there. If you want the world to know how anti-vax/anti-mask you were when they read your obituary, so be it. Seems like there's at least one story every single day about someone that was.

Or a story about a family that was, then one of them dies and all the rest run to get vaccinated. Either way works.

[Iwritecode]

All vaccines started off as experiments and not standards.

Of course: first they were one thing (experimental, something you don't mandate), later they became another (standard, something you might mandate). Today, it's particularly important not to confuse these two things.

And when it goes standard, you'll be filled with glee at the vaccine mandates?

I thought Pfizer was already off the emergency approval and onto full approval?

[Tommy]

All vaccines started off as experiments and not standards.

Of course: first they were one thing (experimental, something you don't mandate), later they became another (standard, something you might mandate). Today, it's particularly important not to confuse these two things.

Honestly, I'm starting to come around to the opinion of just let people do what they want. The facts are there, the science is there. If you want the world to know how anti-vax/anti-mask you were when they read your obituary, so be it. Seems like there's at least one story every single day about someone that was.

Or a story about a family that was, then one of them dies and all the rest run to get vaccinated. Either way works.

The problem is they are sending their sick kids to school and a lot of teachers and school staff members have died all around the country.
Some are more concerned with the border than the fact that yesterday more people died from COVID than the 9/11 attacks.

[mae]

You might be insane if you think vaccine mandates are a good thing.

Then I'm insane and proud of it.

And it's not that Trump supporters have different views - it's that Trump is an anti-American, anti-democracy wannabe authoritarian. My gosh, the idiot is asking for a recount in TEXAS!

How is asking for a recount "anti-American"? Didn't Al Gore ask for a recount and claim the 2000 election was stolen? Doesn't Hillary suggest to this day that the 2016 election was stolen by Russian collusion? An outlandish and baseless conspiracy theory. It's fine to say this is pointless, but "anti-American"? This is a great example of how the concept of "tolerance" for other views only goes one way. Dems insist that others must be open minded or accept their belief system. But it doesn't work the other way. In fact, anyone who has a differing view is deemed anti-American or bigoted. By definition having differences of opinion is a fundamental principle of democracy and America.

Not a very apt comparison, comparing the Florida recount in 2000, where the margin was so razor-thin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_recount_i n_Florida Gore also accepted defeat and moved on.

Biden won Arizona by over 10,000 votes: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/24/republican-audit-arizona-bigger-lead-biden

[Tommy]

All vaccines started off as experiments and not standards.

Of course: first they were one thing (experimental, something you don't mandate), later they became another (standard, something you might mandate). Today, it's particularly important not to confuse these two things.

And when it goes standard, you'll be filled with glee at the vaccine mandates?

I thought Pfizer was already off the emergency approval and onto full approval?

It is fully approved by the FDA but these people do not care.

[Randall Flagg]

OK. It's time to wait for the book, then discuss it's merits/leanings etc.
Political and Vaccine discussions should be done in the appropriate thread(s).

[Ricky]

OK. It's time to wait for the book, then discuss it's merits/leanings etc.
Political and Vaccine discussions should be done in the appropriate thread(s).

Thank you. Was just going to suggest the same thing. As Holly would say, too much political talk is just poopy.

[Ari_Racing]

Under The Dome is SK's most overtly political book with Big Jim Rennie and Peter Randolph as thinly disguised caricatures of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush.

And Needful Things. Unless I'm wrong he stated the whole plot is a methafor of Reagan's government.

[Kingfan24]

All vaccines started off as experiments and not standards.

Of course: first they were one thing (experimental, something you don't mandate), later they became another (standard, something you might mandate). Today, it's particularly important not to confuse these two things.

And when it goes standard, you'll be filled with glee at the vaccine mandates?

I thought Pfizer was already off the emergency approval and onto full approval?

It is fully approved by the FDA but these people do not care.

The approval of this vaccine is nothing short of criminal by the FDA. Two of the most senior vaccine safety people at FDA left over the rushed and ridiculous approval of the vaccine. I work with the FDA every day and if you think it’s some sort of infallible agency you’re incredibly naive.

[Garrell]

I really wish the political crap would go elsewhere. Holly rocks and I am looking forward to the book!

[Lurker]

I would generally agree with you...but when something is wrong, well...

"Two of the most senior vaccine safety people at FDA left over the rushed and ridiculous approval of the vaccine."

In reality:
"Two senior officials have resigned from their positions within the US Food and Drug Administration over frustrations with the Biden administration’s plans to move forward with recommending COVID-19 booster shots without their prior approval, according to a report." NYPost (http://https://nypost.com/2021/09/01/two-senior-fda-officials-resign-over-biden-administration-booster-shot-plan/)


Nothing wrong with the vaccine. It was approved because it is safe and works.

[Merlin1958]

I really wish the political crap would go elsewhere. Holly rocks and I am looking forward to the book!

:clap::clap::clap:

[Ben Mears]

Under The Dome is SK's most overtly political book with Big Jim Rennie and Peter Randolph as thinly disguised caricatures of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush.

And Needful Things. Unless I'm wrong he stated the whole plot is a methafor of Reagan's government.

Forgot about Needful Things Ari. While no less damning, SK's black comedy approach to NT made it much more enjoyable to read.

[Iwritecode]

All vaccines started off as experiments and not standards.

Of course: first they were one thing (experimental, something you don't mandate), later they became another (standard, something you might mandate). Today, it's particularly important not to confuse these two things.

And when it goes standard, you'll be filled with glee at the vaccine mandates?

I thought Pfizer was already off the emergency approval and onto full approval?

It is fully approved by the FDA but these people do not care.

The approval of this vaccine is nothing short of criminal by the FDA. Two of the most senior vaccine safety people at FDA left over the rushed and ridiculous approval of the vaccine. I work with the FDA every day and if you think it’s some sort of infallible agency you’re incredibly naive.

Man, it must get tiring moving those goalposts all the time.

[herbertwest]

Besides "Gwendy's Final Task", the following King book haven't been announced yet.
So likely an august or october release I guess?

[fitomad]

Besides "Gwendy's Final Task", the following King book haven't been announced yet.
So likely an august or october release I guess?

The last Gwendy's series book will be released in february, so It's probably that the Scribner will wait until august-october to release the new one

[craigobau]

An sort-of update on this book on the Bloody Disgusting website today:

Scott Wampler and Eric Vespe scored their white whale on the Fangoria podcast The Kingcast, interviewing Stephen King himself on a brand new 1-hour episode that launched today.

During the chat, which you’ll find embedded below, Stephen King revealed that he’s again revisiting a character from his past work, with one of his next novels set to be titled Holly.

The new tale will center on the character Holly Gibney, a character from the Mr. Mercedes books who also made an appearance in The Outsider as well as If It Bleeds.

As the Stephen King Wikipedia explains, “[Holly Gibney] is the younger cousin of Janey and Olivia Gibney. Holly suffers from OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder), synesthesia, sensory processing disorder, and she’s somewhere on the autism spectrum. Despite this, she’s very observant, refreshingly unfiltered and unaware of her innocence.”

“I could never let Holly Gibney go, from the Mr. Mercedes books,” King tells The Kingcast. “I mean, she was supposed to be a walk-on character and she just kind of stole the book and stole my heart and so… I just finished a novel that’s called Holly and it’s all her, man.”

[BigJoeHillfan]

I thought this was supposed to out already. Is there a publication date?

[herbertwest]

Some time next year
My personal guess : march/april 2023

[Bev Vincent]

From the back cover:


Stephen King's Holly marks the triumphant return of beloved King character Holly Gibney. Readers have witnessed Holly’s gradual transformation from a shy (but also brave and ethical) recluse in Mr. Mercedes to Bill Hodges's partner in Finders Keepers to a full-fledged, smart, and occasionally tough private detective in The Outsider. In King's new novel, Holly is on her own, and up against a pair of unimaginably depraved and brilliantly disguised adversaries.

When Penny Dahl calls the Finders Keepers detective agency hoping for help locating her missing daughter, Holly is reluctant to accept the case. Her partner, Pete, has Covid. Her (very complicated) mother has just died. And Holly is meant to be on leave. But something in Penny Dahl's desperate voice makes it impossible for Holly to turn her down.

Mere blocks from where Bonnie Dahl disappeared live Professors Rodney and Emily Harris. They are the picture of bourgeois respectability: married octogenarians, devoted to each other, and semi-retired lifelong academics. But they are harboring an unholy secret in their well-kept, book-lined home, one that may be related to Bonnie's disappearance. And it will prove nearly impossible to discover what they are up to: they are savvy, they are patient, and they are ruthless.

Holly must summon all her formidable talents to outthink and outmaneuver the shockingly twisted professors in this chilling new masterwork from Stephen King.

[Garrell]

Excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mae]

Sounds fun! Still not fond of the title. Feels lazy.

[RichardX]

Sounds fun! Still not fond of the title. Feels lazy.

I'll read anything from King but this one does sound lazy and uninspired. Like many of his recent novels. King deals with Holly in a typical stereotypical manner as he does with children and minority characters. The typical old white liberal trope that such folks are not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc. It is actually somewhat humorous.

[WeDealInLead]

Fingers crossed that's the final Holly book.

I've had to come to terms that my favourite writer has been putting out mostly clunkers for the last ten or so years. I still read and own everything he writes but I've gone from waiting for the book store to open on release day to buying his latest a month, two or even a year later used. I finally bought Elevation (F/F condition) from Goodwill two weeks ago. 😪

And yeah, Holly sounds pretty uninspired. I thought the same about Billy Summers and Fairy Tale.

[CyberGhostface]

I do think it's funny that Holly has become such a major character in King's universe. At the same time I think she's improved a lot as a character since the Mercedes trilogy; I liked her quite a bit in 'If It Bleeds'.


King deals with Holly in a typical stereotypical manner as he does with children and minority characters. The typical old white liberal trope that such folks are not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc. It is actually somewhat humorous.

LMAO what does that even mean? Which specific minority characters are you even referring to? :orely:

That description doesn't even apply to Holly; her being sheltered due to her upbringing was something that she's struggled to overcome, at no point has King ever suggested that she's better off for not being 'corrupted' by civilization or whatever.

[Hunchback Jack]

I expect "Holly" will be fine, but the private investigator genre isn't really King's forte. I enjoyed the Bill Hodges novels, Outsider, and If It Bleeds well enough, but there are much better PI genre authors out there.

The title does feel a bit lazy though. "Hmm, I wonder what I should call my Holly Gibney novel? ..."

Unlike many others, though, I don't find Holly annoying, but rather charming and relatable.

HBJ

[St. Troy]

Sounds fun! Still not fond of the title. Feels lazy.

I might not say "lazy," but generally I agree; when I read the blurb, I thought, this isn't simply "the Holly story," it's a pretty involved thing in which Holly happens to be a character.

[webstar1000]

Sounds fun! Still not fond of the title. Feels lazy.

I'll read anything from King but this one does sound lazy and uninspired. Like many of his recent novels. King deals with Holly in a typical stereotypical manner as he does with children and minority characters. The typical old white liberal trope that such folks are not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc. It is actually somewhat humorous.

OMF. Again, I ask... why do you bother reading anything by King? lol

[Brian861]

Perhaps the True Knot still lives.

[St. Troy]

Perhaps the True Knot still lives.

Hmm...

[RichardX]

Sounds fun! Still not fond of the title. Feels lazy.

I'll read anything from King but this one does sound lazy and uninspired. Like many of his recent novels. King deals with Holly in a typical stereotypical manner as he does with children and minority characters. The typical old white liberal trope that such folks are not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc. It is actually somewhat humorous.

OMF. Again, I ask... why do you bother reading anything by King? lol

I'm not exactly sure why you take criticism of King's books personally. Are you his agent? I'm a huge fan of King. I just don't hero worship him and find some of his books including many of his recent ones to be duds. Why does that upset you? If you enjoy them, knock yourself out. No explanation is required of anyone for liking or disliking a book. You don't even address my criticisms. Only the fact that I dared to criticize him. "Get a life" as William Shatner told Star Trek fans.

[CyberGhostface]

There’s not much to address, your criticisms were just attacks on King’s politics (he’s “an old white liberal”) and a bizarre statement that King writes minorities as ‘not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc’ which doesn’t apply to any minority character King has written in decades, if at all.

[webstar1000]

Sounds fun! Still not fond of the title. Feels lazy.

I'll read anything from King but this one does sound lazy and uninspired. Like many of his recent novels. King deals with Holly in a typical stereotypical manner as he does with children and minority characters. The typical old white liberal trope that such folks are not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc. It is actually somewhat humorous.

OMF. Again, I ask... why do you bother reading anything by King? lol

I'm not exactly sure why you take criticism of King's books personally. Are you his agent? I'm a huge fan of King. I just don't hero worship him and find some of his books including many of his recent ones to be duds. Why does that upset you? If you enjoy them, knock yourself out. No explanation is required of anyone for liking or disliking a book. You don't even address my criticisms. Only the fact that I dared to criticize him. "Get a life" as William Shatner told Star Trek fans.

Oh my..... the irony is I am not upset. YOU are. lol

[Ben Mears]

Fingers crossed that's the final Holly book.

I've had to come to terms that my favourite writer has been putting out mostly clunkers for the last ten or so years. I still read and own everything he writes but I've gone from waiting for the book store to open on release day to buying his latest a month, two or even a year later used. I finally bought Elevation (F/F condition) from Goodwill two weeks ago. 😪

And yeah, Holly sounds pretty uninspired. I thought the same about Billy Summers and Fairy Tale.

+1. I'll gladly read whatever SK publishes but only via library. Haven't purchased a new release since Doctor Sleep.

[herbertwest]

Amazon now has a page (https://amzn.to/3XJqDKT) for the novel, that will be released on september 5!

And here is the cover !

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51S1zE+zQWL.jpg

[Brian861]

The UK cover perhaps? The are usually so much better IMO.

Edit: Book Depository is showing a release date of September 1 listing 3 editions available. No cover art but different ISBN's listed for each. I'll assume US, UK, and probably large print editions. We usually get an airport paperback from the UK as well upon release, correct?

[herbertwest]

Nope, it's the american one
Usually the UK cover is announced a bit later. It's not available yet

[fitomad]

This cover reminds me "The Institute" style.

Wait to see the UK version, the last ones has been so pretty.

[herbertwest]

The temp UK one is, according to amz (https://www.amazon.com/Untitled-ebook/dp/B0BSRVPXJB/ref=sr_1_2):

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51ykK0Ow-kL.jpg

[fitomad]

The temp UK one is, according to amz (https://www.amazon.com/Untitled-ebook/dp/B0BSRVPXJB/ref=sr_1_2):

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51ykK0Ow-kL.jpg

It seems that a bike is involved in the plot :)

[mae]

Large cover art, interesting details in the windows:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91lmrYkI5yL.jpg

[mae]

And as always, in my opinion, the US cover is better.

[CyberGhostface]

Excerpt from the book here.

https://ew.com/books/stephen-king-holly-exclusive-book-excerpt/

[Randall Flagg]

The temp UK one is, according to amz (https://www.amazon.com/Untitled-ebook/dp/B0BSRVPXJB/ref=sr_1_2):

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51ykK0Ow-kL.jpg

It seems that a bike is involved in the plot :)


Or a wheelchair.

[St. Troy]

This cover reminds me "The Institute" style.

Reminds me of that as well, although with more (and interesting) detail, as Mae pointed out. I like it.

Painting that house would be a pain in the neck...

[St. Troy]

Excerpt from the book here.

https://ew.com/books/stephen-king-holly-exclusive-book-excerpt/

Complete with a classic Kingspoiler!

[fitomad]

The temp UK one is, according to amz (https://www.amazon.com/Untitled-ebook/dp/B0BSRVPXJB/ref=sr_1_2):

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51ykK0Ow-kL.jpg

It seems that a bike is involved in the plot :)


Or a wheelchair.

Indeed ;)

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Now available to purchase at THE BOOK DEPOSITORY if you are in the USA and wish to order the UK trade PB and HC editions:

HC, Hodder & Stoughton, 9-5-23, 9781399712910
PB, Hodder & Stoughton, 9-5-23, 9781399712927

[RichardX]

There’s not much to address, your criticisms were just attacks on King’s politics (he’s “an old white liberal”) and a bizarre statement that King writes minorities as ‘not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc’ which doesn’t apply to any minority character King has written in decades, if at all.

Like the great JK Rowling:

I shall file your lost admiration carefully in the box where I keep my missing f—s,

[CyberGhostface]

Can't say I'm shocked you're unable to back up your bizarre statement of King espousing the belief that minorities are 'not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc’ or that you couldn't think of any King character from the last twenty years that it might apply to.

[herbertwest]

The UK cover has landed on amazon

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51VDqUuf+fL.jpg

[CyberGhostface]

That confirms it's a bike wheel on the other cover at least.

[RichardX]

Can't say I'm shocked you're unable to back up your bizarre statement of King espousing the belief that minorities are 'not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc’ or that you couldn't think of any King character from the last twenty years that it might apply to.

There is nothing bizarre about it unless you don't understand the concept. King's characterization of minorities and children are an extension of the stereotype "noble savage" from literature with a leftist patriarchal bent. As a result, his minority and child characters more often have "special" powers or second sight than others. His books are full of such examples. Who has the "shining"?

"In Western anthropology, philosophy, and literature, the noble savage is a stock character who is uncorrupted by civilization. As such, the noble savage symbolizes the innate goodness and moral superiority of a primitive people living in harmony with Nature."

[CyberGhostface]

You said King writes minorities as 'not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc’ and when I ask for one example from the last twenty years of a minority character that fits that description, all you can come up with is King’s use of psychic powers.

Never mind that that has nothing to do with the noble savage concept.

Never mind that you listed Holly as an example and she doesn’t *have* any powers!

[RichardX]

You said King writes minorities as 'not corrupted by "civilization" and therefore living in harmony with nature etc’ and when I ask for one example from the last twenty years of a minority character that fits that description, all you can come up with is King’s use of psychic powers.

Never mind that that has nothing to do with the noble savage concept.

Never mind that you listed Holly as an example and she doesn’t *have* any powers!

I gave you a specific example. In fact, it is a leitmotiv of King novels. LOL. The Stand. The Shining. Firestarter. Carrie. The Institute. Whew.

[CyberGhostface]

No, you didn’t. You’re conflating ‘kids with psychic powers’ with minorities being depicted as “noble savages” which makes no sense.

How does “the noble savage symbolizes the innate goodness and moral superiority of a primitive people living in harmony with Nature” even begin to describe a character like Carrie for example?

There’s a whole list of examples of this trope here and none of your examples fit in with them.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NobleSavage

[Bev Vincent]

Booklist review (https://www.booklistonline.com/Holly-/pid=9779572)

[Curly]

Booklist review (https://www.booklistonline.com/Holly-/pid=9779572)

Not much of a review. Sounds like he just copied the blurb on the jacket.

[Bev Vincent]

Tune in on August 3rd at 2pm EST to watch Stephen King read from his new novel HOLLY, coming September 5th!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEsRSQcy_Q0

[herbertwest]

Can anybody confirm that there is an excerpt of "Holly" in the mass paperback version of "Fairy Tale"?


I feel like someone said so a few weeks ago, not sure whether it was the uk or us paperback, but not sure and can't find the info on amazon

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

There's nothing in the US Scribner June 2023 trade paperback.

[Bev Vincent]

According to Lilja, it's in the mmp of Billy Summers, not Fairy Tale.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Just checked my June 2023 small paperback from Pocket Books of BILLY SUMMERS, and yes, it has the HOLLY excerpt.

[Ari_Racing]

There's also a Holly excerpt on the Fairy Tale Paperback edition. It also includes an edited and adapted version of Stephen King's talk during the Chaltenham Literature Festival.

[Bev Vincent]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjd_17TENkE

[Ricky]

That's awesome Justine is narrating! She nailed Holly in the MM series.

[Bev Vincent]

King's British editor Philippa Pride discusses what makes Holly such a special protagonist and highlights the gorgeous rejackets of the other books in the series. (https://www.waterstones.com/blog/philippa-pride-on-stephen-kings-holly-gibney)

[Bev Vincent]

Esquire has an excerpt (https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a44730879/stephen-king-holly-excerpt/)

This article appeared in the September 2023 issue of Esquire

[CyberGhostface]

New excerpt from Entertainment Weekly

https://ew.com/books/holly-stephen-king-exclusive-excerpt-2/

[Curly]

I'd rather the book was about Molly and not Holly. His dog is more interesting.

[RichardX]

I'm glad King is still around and writing books, but this is probably the least anticipated King book that I can remember. Hopefully it doesn't read like the third runner up in a write a Stephen King book contest like his last several novels, but I have low expectations. And if Holly uses that sock again, it will be a bridge way too far.

[Roseannebarr]

I'm glad King is still around and writing books, but this is probably the least anticipated King book that I can remember. Hopefully it doesn't read like the third runner up in a write a Stephen King book contest like his last several novels, but I have low expectations. And if Holly uses that sock again, it will be a bridge way too far.

Spoiler Alert --- I was told that RichardX is going to HATE this book. A lot of politics. You might want to skip this one. I am afraid it will make your head explode.

[Ben Mears]

]
Spoiler Alert --- A lot of politics.

I hope not. I'm already leery of the Covid setting and have no interest in revisiting the politics surrounding it.

[craigobau]

Holly review from the UK Guardian newspaper;

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/sep/02/holly-by-stephen-king-review-unlikely-serial-killers

[RichardX]

I'm glad King is still around and writing books, but this is probably the least anticipated King book that I can remember. Hopefully it doesn't read like the third runner up in a write a Stephen King book contest like his last several novels, but I have low expectations. And if Holly uses that sock again, it will be a bridge way too far.

Spoiler Alert --- I was told that RichardX is going to HATE this book. A lot of politics. You might want to skip this one. I am afraid it will make your head explode.

No surprise. Uncle Stevie is like an old grumpy guy who still yells for the neighborhood kids to "get off his lawn" long after they have grown up and moved away. It's really sad. Most people don't read Stephen King novels for his political insights but to escape from those realities. Maybe he should write his next book about the US government funding a lab in China that releases a virus that kills a million Americans and then censors anyone who makes that claim with the support of famous authors. Instead of "The Stand" he could title it "The Kneel Down." It would not even have to be fiction.

[Ben Mears]

Holly review from the UK Guardian newspaper;

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/sep/02/holly-by-stephen-king-review-unlikely-serial-killers

"Holly’s mother, an anti-vaxxer,..." But of course.

"Lyrical and horrifying, Holly is a hymn to the grim pursuit of justice. The detective’s dogged search for truth drives the book; Covid-19, Black Lives Matter, Trump and the 6 January insurrection are all persistent themes."

No thanks SK. Maybe a book like this 5-10 years from now but not while the wound is still bleeding.

[mae]

King has always written about topical things.

[CyberGhostface]

King has always written about topical things.

Yep. If this site was around during the 90s they'd be complaining he was writing about people attacking abortion clinics in Insomnia. And his "abused women" trilogy would be proof that he was going "woke" and "anti-men".

[SystemCrashOverRide]

If The Dead Zone was King's newly published book, there are people here who would ardently believe that Greg Stillson was the real hero, and that King was a Libtard who was projecting his politics too feverishly.

[Randall Flagg]

And his "abused women" trilogy would be proof that he was going "woke" and "anti-men".
It is proof. Plus an apology to Tabitha for his affair.

[Ben Mears]

King has always written about topical things.

Agreed. It's just that we're still unavoidably in the midst of Trump, covid etc and at this time I'm not interested in revisiting those subjects in my recreational reading; from any author.

[Ben Mears]

If The Dead Zone was King's newly published book, there are people here who would ardently believe that Greg Stillson was the real hero, and that King was a Libtard who was projecting his politics too feverishly.

It's good to know you think so highly of your contemporaries on the message board. I can't imagine anyone here would find Stillson to be the hero, now or then. I consider The Dead Zone one of SK's best and the fact that it turned out to be so prescient makes it even more impactful today.

[SystemCrashOverRide]

The vast majority? Wonderful folks. Smart, thoughtful, kind, & interesting to boot. There are a few however, that feel these boards are a great place to spew hateful hot takes and aim to rile up others. I would never personally deal with these folks, and I'm saddened by their presence.

My comments were mostly tongue in cheek, but (as always) the intent can be easily lost in a simple post, through no one's fault.

The Dead Zone is also one of my absolute favourite King novels, and I see Greg Stillson as the same sort of national populist politician as we have today.

Do I genuinely think people read Stillson as a hero? No, of course not. Do I think they root for his modern day, real life equivalent politicians? Youbetcha.

I'm sure there are those who are ready to jump down my throat for equating the two - but I'd bet that King himself believes they're cut from the same cloth.

[CyberGhostface]

Plus an apology to Tabitha for his affair.

What affair are you talking about? You’ve indicated a few times that King has cheated on his wife but I’ve found nothing anywhere to back this up.

[Kongo]

My excitement for a new Stephen King novel is at an all time low with this one. I'm just genuinely hoping for a decent story, and not something stuffed with irrelevant hot takes, and another lecture about covid. It seems like another divisive book however. If anything please let this be the book he retires Holly

[CyberGhostface]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news…

https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?24072-quot-We-Think-Not-quot-(new-Holly-novel)

[St. Troy]

Stillson wasn't notable for being populist; he was notable for actually being fated to start WWIII.

[Kongo]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news…

https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?24072-quot-We-Think-Not-quot-(new-Holly-novel)

Oh wow, lol. Totally missed that announcement. Luckily we're also getting a new short story collection, hopefully before that

[St. Troy]

Holly review from the UK Guardian newspaper;

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/sep/02/holly-by-stephen-king-review-unlikely-serial-killers


Covid-19, Black Lives Matter, Trump and the 6 January insurrection are all persistent themes.

We'll see what this amounts to. Themes needn't be grinding stones, but King's recent history is one of taking a side and flogging it ad nauseam.

[St. Troy]

Maybe he should write his next book about the US government funding a lab in China that releases a virus that kills a million Americans and then censors anyone who makes that claim with the support of famous authors. Instead of "The Stand" he could title it "The Kneel Down." It would not even have to be fiction.

Careful - sounds like hate speech.

[CyberGhostface]

Yeah it’s not like there was a rise in hate speech and crimes against Asian-Americans or anything like that…

[RichardX]

My excitement for a new Stephen King novel is at an all time low with this one. I'm just genuinely hoping for a decent story, and not something stuffed with irrelevant hot takes, and another lecture about covid. It seems like another divisive book however. If anything please let this be the book he retires Holly

I agree. Maybe it will also include some guys giving "high fives" and modern-day kids playing board games and watching TCM. Sadly, Uncle Stevie, like many of our politicians, belongs to a bygone era. It's hard to stay "hep" when getting old and living among sycophants behind the walls of your mansions. But there is always virtue signaling on social media.

[CyberGhostface]

I get that you despise him but I have no idea who told you that King is confined to his “mansion” when he’s often out and about interacting with regular people.

And shocking that a 75 year old man whose kids have all grown up isn’t as up to date on what’s hip with modern teens.

[WeDealInLead]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news…

https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?24072-quot-We-Think-Not-quot-(new-Holly-novel)

🤒🤕🤢🤮

My review, sight unseen, in four acts.

Unless the story ends with Holly being mauled by a bear and mouthing "Poopy" with her last breath, I'm not interested.

Why can't these geezers retire gracefully? Dean Koontz with his boot licking and paranoia, Metallica with their "mid" riffs, Kiss/Motley Crue with their backing tracks, King with his bleeding heart (it's not that I even disagree with every thing they're saying, they're both just so ham fisted and CRINGE) ... youre all worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Just stop.

[CyberGhostface]

People have been saying King should retire for decades now. He writes because he enjoys writing. And IMO even if everything’s not a hit he’s had a number of his best works over the past 20 years.

[WeDealInLead]

The easiest way to test that theory would be to ask them if they'd take King's first 10 books or the latest 10 books to a deserted island.

I'm not a "hater". He can still write. It's his stories that aren't doing it for me. Fairy Tale followed by Holly, come on.

Like...James Hetfield still is the undisputed king of down picking at 60. The man is a machine. And then he sings on top of his playing. It's surreal to watch. But the songs sort of meander for eight minutes.

TL;DR version: I'm being selfish because I want things that used to make me happy to keep doing that.

[CyberGhostface]

The easiest way to test that theory would be to ask them if they'd take King's first 10 books or the latest 10 books to a deserted island.

That wouldn’t do much to disprove the argument that “has King written some of his best work in the last twenty years” either way. I’ve often seen 11/22/63, Revival and Joyland being cited as being top tier King. Whenever there’s a poll 11/22/63 usually ends up being one of the top five picks for favorite King novel and Revival is often thrown around as being one of the scariest books he’s written.

And while Fairy Tale was a mixed bag I personally got a lot of enjoyment out of The Institute and I thought Billy Summers was an engrossing read.

[RichardX]

The only King book from the last twenty years that I would even consider rating among his top ten would be 11/22/63. Most of the others would be among the bottom 20. I'm glad he is still around and writing, though. Even his awful recent books with their tiresome politics are worth a read. I can handle others having differing views. King is just a rich white guy who doesn't want any trouble from the woke mob. He can say whatever he is told to say because it has no implications on his life. No homeless on his sidewalks, illegal aliens running across his lawn, or concerns with crime in his neighborhood. Others bear the consequences of his opinions.

[CyberGhostface]

I can handle others having differing views.

You called him a coward and a rat fink because he signed a petition in support of trans people.


King is just a rich white guy who doesn't want any trouble from the woke mob. He can say whatever he is told to say because it has no implications on his life. No homeless on his sidewalks, illegal aliens running across his lawn, or concerns with crime in his neighborhood. Others bear the consequences of his opinions.

So you can handle him having differing views but you’re also saying King is at fault for the homeless epidemic and illegal immigration. Wow.

[RichardX]

I can handle others having differing views.

You called him a coward and a rat fink because he signed a petition in support of trans people.


King is just a rich white guy who doesn't want any trouble from the woke mob. He can say whatever he is told to say because it has no implications on his life. No homeless on his sidewalks, illegal aliens running across his lawn, or concerns with crime in his neighborhood. Others bear the consequences of his opinions.

So you can handle him having differing views but you’re also saying King is at fault for the homeless epidemic and illegal immigration. Wow.

I called him a rat fink for throwing his fellow authors under a bus. He is a coward for doing so. Imagine how far off the rails the fringe element has become when they attack someone like JK Rowling. Not just disagree with her but vilifying and attacking her. If King has an issue with her, why doesn't he just call her up and express himself? Why join a vicious public hate campaign? She is a fellow author. Not a politician. He sold her out to show the world how "hep" he still is.

No one suggested that King is at fault for the flood of homeless or illegal aliens. That honor belongs solely to Joe Biden. What I said is that King can virtue signal on such topics because his political opinions have no implications for himself. He espouses these opinions because he is afraid of the woke mob. I doubt he even agrees with them, but he doesn't care because he has his wall and private security to keep everyone out. If any homeless person or illegal alien showed their face within a mile of King's mansions, they would be arrested on the spot.

By "handle" contrary opinions, I don't mean that I would be silent like a sycophant. It means I would not suggest that King be censored or imprisoned, as King and other leftists are doing to those that they disagree with, just because they have a different viewpoint. I will also continue to read his awful books. I don't advocate censorship or use of the justice system to lock up people for having contrary political beliefs. King used to be like that too. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case.

[CyberGhostface]

I called him a rat fink for throwing his fellow authors under a bus. He is a coward for doing so. Imagine how far off the rails the fringe element has become when they attack someone like JK Rowling. Not just disagree with her but vilifying and attacking her. If King has an issue with her, why doesn't he just call her up and express himself? Why join a vicious public hate campaign? She is a fellow author. Not a politician. He sold her out to show the world how "hep" he still is.

Why are you lying? The petition didn't even mention Rowling, let alone "vilify" or "attack her". Not only that but King HAS defended Rowling and is still recommending her work regularly on twitter.

In case anyone is wondering this is the petition in full. Maybe I missed a bit where anyone is viciously attacking Rowling.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E2wUhFjDHFaoQLQkFeG0HIhKUFknmTw076hctywqxUc/edit


He espouses these opinions because he is afraid of the woke mob. I doubt he even agrees with them, but he doesn't care because he has his wall and private security to keep everyone out. If any homeless person or illegal alien showed their face within a mile of King's mansions, they would be arrested on the spot.

You're projecting your own views onto him. King has been "woke" as you say for decades. The idea that he would have a homeless or illegal immigrant (how he would he even know their immigration status?) arrested just for being in his neighborhood is baseless and absurd.


I don't advocate censorship or use of the justice system to lock up people for having contrary political beliefs. King used to be like that too. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case.

What are you even referring to? Trump being indicted? The people who attacked the capitol?

[Ari_Racing]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news…

https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?24072-quot-We-Think-Not-quot-(new-Holly-novel)

🤒🤕🤢🤮

My review, sight unseen, in four acts.

Unless the story ends with Holly being mauled by a bear and mouthing "Poopy" with her last breath, I'm not interested.

Why can't these geezers retire gracefully? Dean Koontz with his boot licking and paranoia, Metallica with their "mid" riffs, Kiss/Motley Crue with their backing tracks, King with his bleeding heart (it's not that I even disagree with every thing they're saying, they're both just so ham fisted and CRINGE) ... youre all worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Just stop.

Retire? Why? He's entitled to do what he wants. It's up to each reader to stop reading/buying his books, not the writer to stop writing 'em...

[Ari_Racing]

Stephen King's interview for Rolling Stones starts with this quote:

“I think that a lot of people are not going to like it,” he says. “I think that a lot of people — particularly people on the other side of the Covid issue and the Trump issue — are going to give it one-star reviews on Amazon. But all I can say to those people is, ‘Knock yourself out.’”.

[Ben Mears]

Kirkus Review with no spoilers or reference to potential political hot potatoes...


Loyal King fans may disagree, but this is a snooze

A much-beloved author gives a favorite recurring character her own novel.

Holly Gibney made her first appearance in print with a small role in Mr. Mercedes (2014). She played a larger role in The Outsider (2018). And she was the central character in If It Bleeds, a novella in the 2020 collection of the same name. King has said that the character “stole his heart.” Readers adore her, too. One way to look at this book is as several hundred pages of fan service. King offers a lot of callbacks to these earlier works that are undoubtedly a treat for his most loyal devotees. That these easter eggs are meaningless and even befuddling to new readers might make sense in terms of costs and benefits. King isn’t exactly an author desperate to grow his audience; pleasing the people who keep him at the top of the bestseller lists is probably a smart strategy, and this writer achieved the kind of status that whatever he writes is going to be published. Having said all that, it’s possible that even his hardcore fans might find this story a bit slow. There are also issues in terms of style. Much of the language King uses and the cultural references he drops feel a bit creaky. The word slacks occurs with distracting frequency. King uses the phrase keeping it on the down-low in a way that suggests he probably doesn’t understand how this phrase is currently used—and has been used for quite a while. But the biggest problem is that this narrative is framed as a mystery without delivering the pleasures of a mystery. The reader knows who the bad guys are from the start. This can be an effective storytelling device, but in this case, waiting for the private investigator heroine to get to where the reader is at the beginning of the story feels interminable.

Loyal King fans may disagree, but this is a snooze.

[RichardX]

I called him a rat fink for throwing his fellow authors under a bus. He is a coward for doing so. Imagine how far off the rails the fringe element has become when they attack someone like JK Rowling. Not just disagree with her but vilifying and attacking her. If King has an issue with her, why doesn't he just call her up and express himself? Why join a vicious public hate campaign? She is a fellow author. Not a politician. He sold her out to show the world how "hep" he still is.

Why are you lying? The petition didn't even mention Rowling, let alone "vilify" or "attack her". Not only that but King HAS defended Rowling and is still recommending her work regularly on twitter.

In case anyone is wondering this is the petition in full. Maybe I missed a bit where anyone is viciously attacking Rowling.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E2wUhFjDHFaoQLQkFeG0HIhKUFknmTw076hctywqxUc/edit


He espouses these opinions because he is afraid of the woke mob. I doubt he even agrees with them, but he doesn't care because he has his wall and private security to keep everyone out. If any homeless person or illegal alien showed their face within a mile of King's mansions, they would be arrested on the spot.

You're projecting your own views onto him. King has been "woke" as you say for decades. The idea that he would have a homeless or illegal immigrant (how he would he even know their immigration status?) arrested just for being in his neighborhood is baseless and absurd.


I don't advocate censorship or use of the justice system to lock up people for having contrary political beliefs. King used to be like that too. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case.

What are you even referring to? Trump being indicted? The people who attacked the capitol?

Put it to the test. Take some homeless folks and/or illegal immigrants to King's neighborhood and see what happens. They wouldn't be there five seconds before the private security or police took them into custody. Just like the rich liberals did in Martha's Vineyard when they deployed the national guard. And no one is viciously attacking Rowling? She has indicated that she is scared for her life and the safety of her family. King is not responsible for the unhinged woke mob, but he has contributed to that culture by vilifying those with differing views. It's shameful.

[CyberGhostface]

You are continuing to lie. Neither KING nor anyone else on that petition attacked or vilified Rowling. They didn’t even mention her name. They just stated their support for trans people which is what I suspect your issue is with King here.

And again, how would King even know someone’s immigration status? Why would he care? Are you using that as a shorthand for something else?

[Garrell]

Also, the homeless issue and illegal aliens has been an issue for well over a decade. It is no one single presidents fault. I hate Trump and don't care either way about Biden, I am neither a republican or a democrat, but both issues are a problem and will be for the next upcoming presidents. So I guess the next president will be the one at fault?
If you don't like the idea of Holly, then don't buy it or read it, your choice.

[mae]

King is not responsible for the unhinged woke mob, but he has contributed to that culture by vilifying those with differing views. It's shameful.

The very same can be said about JKR, using her considerable platform to espouse anti-trans views that are harmful.

[RichardX]

You are continuing to lie. Neither KING nor anyone else on that petition attacked or vilified Rowling. They didn’t even mention her name. They just stated their support for trans people which is what I suspect your issue is with King here.

And again, how would King even know someone’s immigration status? Why would he care? Are you using that as a shorthand for something else?

Talk about lying. Rowling's comments were the impetus for the letter. It didn't have to mention her by name for anyone with a functioning brain to understand it was written in response to her comments. Good grief. Talk about disinformation. Are you an agent of Putin? LOL. This letter contributed to an onslaught of abuse and threats. King bears responsibility for that along with the others. Fortunately, some writers understand this.

"Writers including Lionel Shriver and Ian McEwan put their names to a letter in the Times supporting Rowling in the face of “an onslaught of abuse that highlights an insidious authoritarian and misogynistic trend in social media”

[CyberGhostface]

Rowling's comments were the impetus for the letter. It didn't have to mention her by name for anyone with a functioning brain to understand it was written in response to her comments.

That’s not what you said earlier. Here’s what you said King did before: “Not just disagree with her but vilifying and attacking her” and that King was participating in a “vicious hate campaign”. Which was a lie on your part as King never said anything negative about her.

Now you are suggesting that by simply showing support to trans people King is responsible for any abuse or threats sent at Rowling. :scared:

So in other words Rowling is free to speak her mind on the trans debate, write hundreds of tweets, participate in podcasts on it. King however simply saying “You matter. You are loved.” to trans people while still supporting Rowling elsewhere is stabbing Rowling in the back and is responsible for any negative reaction she gets. Rowling is allowed to say whatever she wants about trans people but King needs to keep his mouth shut because… Joanne has dibs on the topic…?

[Lurker]

"They wouldn't be there five seconds before the private security or police took them into custody. Just like the rich liberals did in Martha's Vineyard when they deployed the national guard."

The guard were sent to help (https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/national-guard-migrant-marthas-vineyard-desantis-b2168915.html): "Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker announced he plans to activate the National Guard, among the relief efforts his administration is supplying for the 50 migrants who were flown into Martha’s Vineyard under Governor Ron DeSantis’s controversial relocation program.

“The island communities are not equipped to provide sustainable accommodation, and state officials developed a plan to deliver a comprehensive humanitarian response,” said the governor’s office in a statement released Friday."

It was just another stunt by the little Mussolini wannabe to appease the intellectually challenged MAGA sheep.

[webstar1000]

Got 5 signed copies yesterday (ALL sold). They all went for $2500-2750 each. I should have a few more today I hope. They are 1st's too!! King has been kind in NYC signing!

[herbertwest]

GMA?

[Bev Vincent]

Got 5 signed copies yesterday (ALL sold). They all went for $2500-2750 each. I should have a few more today I hope. They are 1st's too!! King has been kind in NYC signing!

Kind. Maybe a little grumpy. No breakfast! https://www.instagram.com/p/Cw0KBOxuZAv/

[St. Troy]

Stephen King's interview for Rolling Stones starts with this quote:

“I think that a lot of people are not going to like it,” he says. “I think that a lot of people — particularly people on the other side of the Covid issue and the Trump issue — are going to give it one-star reviews on Amazon. But all I can say to those people is, ‘Knock yourself out.’”.

This is the difference: not King's politics, but this confrontational approach - stepping out in front of a novel's release to draw a line in the sand and mock his ideological opponents - which is of much more recent vintage.

Those who pretend (and it is pretending) that nothing has changed - hey, King has always been this way - can't be taken seriously.

[St. Troy]

Kirkus Review

Interesting review, which I, in turn, shall review:


...several hundred pages of fan service...

Several hundred pages? :wtf: It's 464 pages!

Sir, this is a Stephen King novel - 464 pages is nothing.


...it’s possible that even his hardcore fans might find this story a bit slow...this is a snooze.

We'll see - I haven't read Holly - but many are the King novels others have so described that turned out to be just fine.


Much of the language King uses and the cultural references he drops feel a bit creaky. The word slacks occurs with distracting frequency. King uses the phrase keeping it on the down-low in a way that suggests he probably doesn’t understand how this phrase is currently used—and has been used for quite a while.

Also, no problem here - we all age, and I don't want King to pretend to be something he isn't.

Here's hoping it's a fine novel.

[mae]

Stephen King's interview for Rolling Stones starts with this quote:

“I think that a lot of people are not going to like it,” he says. “I think that a lot of people — particularly people on the other side of the Covid issue and the Trump issue — are going to give it one-star reviews on Amazon. But all I can say to those people is, ‘Knock yourself out.’”.

This is the difference: not King's politics, but this confrontational approach - stepping out in front of a novel's release to draw a line in the sand and mock his ideological opponents - which is of much more recent vintage.

Those who pretend (and it is pretending) that nothing has changed - hey, King has always been this way - can't be taken seriously.

King has always had this approach to criticism though. Recall his comments about popular fiction versus literary fiction.

[CyberGhostface]

This is the difference: not King's politics, but this confrontational approach - stepping out in front of a novel's release to draw a line in the sand and mock his ideological opponents - which is of much more recent vintage.

Those who pretend (and it is pretending) that nothing has changed - hey, King has always been this way - can't be taken seriously.

He’s not “mocking” anyone, he predicted (correctly; check the Amazon reviews right now) that people would be giving it 1 star reviews solely because of the stuff about vaccines. The same thing happened with Elevation because of the lgbt content. It’s more than fair for him to point it out.

[WeDealInLead]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news…

https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?24072-quot-We-Think-Not-quot-(new-Holly-novel)

🤒🤕🤢🤮

My review, sight unseen, in four acts.

Unless the story ends with Holly being mauled by a bear and mouthing "Poopy" with her last breath, I'm not interested.

Why can't these geezers retire gracefully? Dean Koontz with his boot licking and paranoia, Metallica with their "mid" riffs, Kiss/Motley Crue with their backing tracks, King with his bleeding heart (it's not that I even disagree with every thing they're saying, they're both just so ham fisted and CRINGE) ... youre all worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Just stop.

Retire? Why? He's entitled to do what he wants. It's up to each reader to stop reading/buying his books, not the writer to stop writing 'em...

Correct. He can do anything he wants, including writing bad books.

[Curly]

Stephen King's interview for Rolling Stones starts with this quote:

“I think that a lot of people are not going to like it,” he says. “I think that a lot of people — particularly people on the other side of the Covid issue and the Trump issue — are going to give it one-star reviews on Amazon. But all I can say to those people is, ‘Knock yourself out.’”.

This is also in the King afterword on the Holly audiobook.

[BigJoeHillfan]

This is the first King book I have not purchased the day of release since the early eighties when I started reading King. I am tired of the political commentary, but that has been going on for a while. I am more tired of the sub-par books from King. The last great one he had was 11/22/63 and that was 17 books ago. I have found other excellent authors that I would rather spend time reading, than wasting my time reading another so-so book from King. This is the end for me in reading King. It saddens me because I have spent my whole adult life reading him, but I have finally reached a point that it is not worth it to bother buying and reading Stephen King.:frown::cry:

[Ben Mears]

This is the first King book I have not purchased the day of release since the early eighties when I started reading King. I am tired of the political commentary, but that has been going on for a while. I am more tired of the sub-par books from King. The last great one he had was 11/22/63 and that was 17 books ago. I have found other excellent authors that I would rather spend time reading, than wasting my time reading another so-so book from King. This is the end for me in reading King. It saddens me because I have spent my whole adult life reading him, but I have finally reached a point that it is not worth it to bother buying and reading Stephen King.:frown::cry:

I haven't purchased an SK book since Finders Keepers. Instead I snag a copy from the library. If the story were to resonate after reading I would consider buying but at this stage I'm looking to downsize so a book by any author, let alone SK, would have to knock me out before I would be willing to buy it.

[WeDealInLead]

At the moment, there is only one review on Amazon Canada. It's a 5-star review, of course, and it goes like this:

"Stephen King's Books Are Great
Reviewed in Canada on September 6, 2023
I'm patiently waiting for the delivery of this book. I hope it will arrive today."

Sounds legit.

[Ben Mears]

Snippet from NPR review:

"King has never been shy about his politics, but Holly is one of his most political novels to date, and it'll' surely anger all the right people."

This won't stop me from reading it (just picked it up from the library) but it will definitely have me on skimming alert. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's less the politics than the timing. We're still in the middle of the mess SK is revisiting and for my taste it's too soon for a screed from him. That said this is why I'll will read it:

Also from the NPR review...
"While Holly is brutal and gripping and King did many things right with the story, Holly is the heart of the narrative. Her growth from a shy, muttering mess in Mr. Mercedes to the smart, strong, smoking, slightly better, and much richer woman we see in Holly is tremendous. It's also a testament to King's talents as a writer and a stark reminder of what can happen when writers allow the magic that inhabits their characters to blossom unimpeded by their original plans for them."

[Iwritecode]

This is the first King book I have not purchased the day of release since the early eighties when I started reading King.

The only book I've ever bought the day it came out was the 8th book of the DT series, because I wanted to know how it ended before it got spoiled for me.

Every other book I own I've picked up used somewhere or received it as a gift.

[Lurker]

I was surprised Amazon delivered mine yesterday. One thing I have learned from all this is I need to read 11/22/63.

[Bev Vincent]

I was surprised Amazon delivered mine yesterday. One thing I have learned from all this is I need to read 11/22/63.

The bit about Mambo #5 was a mis-remember on King's part. He was writing the final three Dark Tower books when he had that on repeat. I mentioned it in The Road to the Dark Tower.

[St. Troy]

One thing I have learned from all this is I need to read 11/22/63.

I don't know if you've had the experience I've had recently, which is many positive mentions of 11/22/63 in otherwise Holly-specific conversations (I also haven't gotten around to 11/22/63).

[mae]

I've always bough King books the day the were released. Have been pre-ordering on Amazon ever since that was a thing, as far as I recall. Don't plan to stop until the books stop.

[St. Troy]

I would still be religiously doing the release day thing if my non-reading life hadn't mostly derailed my reading life in the mid-90s, then buying books at all became pretty spotty. I would like to get back to it (especially since I plan to eventually read everything from King if I live long enough), but I have so many other books that take priority etc.

Release day book purchases were very fun back when it meant going to a bookstore (not that I don't love Amazon); I remember buying all 6 Green Mile parts, 6 months in a row - that was cool.

[Ben Mears]

One thing I have learned from all this is I need to read 11/22/63.

I don't know if you've had the experience I've had recently, which is many positive mentions of 11/22/63 in otherwise Holly-specific conversations (I also haven't gotten around to 11/22/63).

As past threads have shown, board member top 10 lists are diverse. So for what it's worth, 11/22/63 is third nestled just behind The Dead Zone with both looking enviously at 'Salem's Lot perched on the top of my list.

[St. Troy]

When 11/22/63 came out, I wrote down a prediction of how most of the plot would go (I was feeling pessimistic about what King would do with it) - now I just have to find that note.

[Kongo]

Any impressions so far? I just hit the halfway mark and it's just ok. I'll start to get lost in the story, and then Stephen King will snap his fingers obnoxiously and get me to roll my eyes. The villains are really compelling though, and I feel like the main conflict has real promise. So far it's hovering around 7/10 for me

[RichardX]

So I tried real hard to find something that I agreed with in the book. And I did! Holly's reflection about Netflix movies being weirdly mediocre. They are strangely soulless when compared to older movies.

[RichardX]

Stephen King's interview for Rolling Stones starts with this quote:

“I think that a lot of people are not going to like it,” he says. “I think that a lot of people — particularly people on the other side of the Covid issue and the Trump issue — are going to give it one-star reviews on Amazon. But all I can say to those people is, ‘Knock yourself out.’”.

This is the difference: not King's politics, but this confrontational approach - stepping out in front of a novel's release to draw a line in the sand and mock his ideological opponents - which is of much more recent vintage.

Those who pretend (and it is pretending) that nothing has changed - hey, King has always been this way - can't be taken seriously.

That's correct. Now he is blaming Trump for writing a bad book. If you dislike it, that's because you are obviously a Trump supporting racist. Not because he has become a terrible author.

[CyberGhostface]

That's correct. Now he is blaming Trump for writing a bad book. If you dislike it, that's because you are obviously a Trump supporting racist. Not because he has become a terrible author.

Are you deliberately trying to use a strawman here? Because that is a blatant misrepresentation of what King said.

He didn’t even say that if you dislike the book you’re a Trump supporter or racist. He said there would be people who give the book 1 star solely because of the politics. Which is true. On release day there were numerous 1-star reviews from people who didn’t even finish the book but were throwing tantrums over the Trump diss. The same exact thing happened with Elevation.

[RichardX]

That's correct. Now he is blaming Trump for writing a bad book. If you dislike it, that's because you are obviously a Trump supporting racist. Not because he has become a terrible author.

Are you deliberately trying to use a strawman here? Because that is a blatant misrepresentation of what King said.

He didn’t even say that if you dislike the book you’re a Trump supporter or racist. He said there would be people who give the book 1 star solely because of the politics. Which is true. On release day there were numerous 1-star reviews from people who didn’t even finish the book but were throwing tantrums over the Trump diss. The same exact thing happened with Elevation.

There is no doubt that just as many favorable reviews are due to King's anti-Trump hatred. In addition, publishers plant many false favorable reviews and King has a lot of lifelong fans who post favorable reviews before ever reading the book. King doesn't complain that these favorable reviews are the product of Biden supporters. Why would he even care about unfavorable reviews from individuals? He has never made such comments before. He clearly knows the book is a clunker and he is insecure about it. So Trump supporters are responsible.

[CyberGhostface]

There is no doubt that just as many favorable reviews are due to King's anti-Trump hatred. In addition, publishers plant many false favorable reviews and King has a lot of lifelong fans who post favorable reviews before ever reading the book.

You basing this off anything specific (I.E. the publisher planting "false favorable reviews") or is this another "King is to blame for illegal immigrants and the homeless" scenario?


He has never made such comments before. He clearly knows the book is a clunker and he is insecure about it. So Trump supporters are responsible.

Yes, he has. He knew people wouldn't like the Dark Tower ending, remember? He didn't blame it on politics because he knew the story would be controversial for other reasons. He just said "It's the right ending and the only one I got".

If the book received mixed to negative reviews across the board or if it bombed in sales and he then blamed it because of Trump, that would be one thing. 'Holly' though has generally been well-received outside of the Trump fanboys and antivaxxers. He has no reason to be "insecure" because by all margins the book is a success. He's just pointing out something that anyone could predict.

[SystemCrashOverRide]

Was everyone aware that the US edition glows in the dark? I skimmed this thread but didn't see any comments on it, other than someone pointing out that the windows were "interesting" - though it is very possible I simply missed a comment where it was noted.

It's very cool! Nice little touch. If you have a UV blacklight, you can "charge" the glow in the dark elements before taking them into a dark place or hitting the lights to see them quite easily.

[Ari_Racing]

That's correct. Now he is blaming Trump for writing a bad book. If you dislike it, that's because you are obviously a Trump supporting racist. Not because he has become a terrible author.

Are you deliberately trying to use a strawman here? Because that is a blatant misrepresentation of what King said.

He didn’t even say that if you dislike the book you’re a Trump supporter or racist. He said there would be people who give the book 1 star solely because of the politics. Which is true. On release day there were numerous 1-star reviews from people who didn’t even finish the book but were throwing tantrums over the Trump diss. The same exact thing happened with Elevation.

There is no doubt that just as many favorable reviews are due to King's anti-Trump hatred. In addition, publishers plant many false favorable reviews and King has a lot of lifelong fans who post favorable reviews before ever reading the book. King doesn't complain that these favorable reviews are the product of Biden supporters. Why would he even care about unfavorable reviews from individuals? He has never made such comments before. He clearly knows the book is a clunker and he is insecure about it. So Trump supporters are responsible.

This really made me laugh. Do you really believe someone would post a positive review of a book because it mocks trumpists? :emot-roflolmao: Some people would say you're projecting what you'd do...

I liked the book a lot, I think King had a lot of fun writing it and not only because of the politics but also because of the winks related to the Harrises. It's a dark novel with a great pace.

[Jack Mort]

Ari, YES. Thank you for articulating that.

[mae]

Was everyone aware that the US edition glows in the dark? I skimmed this thread but didn't see any comments on it, other than someone pointing out that the windows were "interesting" - though it is very possible I simply missed a comment where it was noted.

It's very cool! Nice little touch. If you have a UV blacklight, you can "charge" the glow in the dark elements before taking them into a dark place or hitting the lights to see them quite easily.

That's interesting, I'll have to test it out. Mine's in the bookcase and it doesn't get a lot of sunlight so I don't know if it'll work.

[RichardX]

That's correct. Now he is blaming Trump for writing a bad book. If you dislike it, that's because you are obviously a Trump supporting racist. Not because he has become a terrible author.

Are you deliberately trying to use a strawman here? Because that is a blatant misrepresentation of what King said.

He didn’t even say that if you dislike the book you’re a Trump supporter or racist. He said there would be people who give the book 1 star solely because of the politics. Which is true. On release day there were numerous 1-star reviews from people who didn’t even finish the book but were throwing tantrums over the Trump diss. The same exact thing happened with Elevation.

There is no doubt that just as many favorable reviews are due to King's anti-Trump hatred. In addition, publishers plant many false favorable reviews and King has a lot of lifelong fans who post favorable reviews before ever reading the book. King doesn't complain that these favorable reviews are the product of Biden supporters. Why would he even care about unfavorable reviews from individuals? He has never made such comments before. He clearly knows the book is a clunker and he is insecure about it. So Trump supporters are responsible.

This really made me laugh. Do you really believe someone would post a positive review of a book because it mocks trumpists? :emot-roflolmao: Some people would say you're projecting what you'd do...

I liked the book a lot, I think King had a lot of fun writing it and not only because of the politics but also because of the winks related to the Harrises. It's a dark novel with a great pace.

You don't believe that there are people who dislike Trump? LOL. If King received a few negative reviews because of his anti-Trump bias, it is reasonable to believe he received some positive reviews from the Trump haters. After all, Biden received the most votes in US history. More than JFK, Reagan, FDR, Obama or any candidate for president. He is wildly popular! People love him. Right? Right? Right? That is what you were told.

[RichardX]

There is no doubt that just as many favorable reviews are due to King's anti-Trump hatred. In addition, publishers plant many false favorable reviews and King has a lot of lifelong fans who post favorable reviews before ever reading the book.

You basing this off anything specific (I.E. the publisher planting "false favorable reviews") or is this another "King is to blame for illegal immigrants and the homeless" scenario?


He has never made such comments before. He clearly knows the book is a clunker and he is insecure about it. So Trump supporters are responsible.

Yes, he has. He knew people wouldn't like the Dark Tower ending, remember? He didn't blame it on politics because he knew the story would be controversial for other reasons. He just said "It's the right ending and the only one I got".

If the book received mixed to negative reviews across the board or if it bombed in sales and he then blamed it because of Trump, that would be one thing. 'Holly' though has generally been well-received outside of the Trump fanboys and antivaxxers. He has no reason to be "insecure" because by all margins the book is a success. He's just pointing out something that anyone could predict.

Again, I never said that King is responsible for illegal aliens and the homeless. Why do you repeat that lie? King is an author. Not a politician. What I said and then repeated in response to your previous mischaracterization is that King would not tolerate the presence of homeless or illegal aliens in his neighborhood. Any such person would be arrested within minutes. It's King who said that Trump supporters would post negative reviews. If you disagree with him, take it up with King. Just don't show up in his neighborhood unless you want to be arrested.

[CyberGhostface]

You don't believe that there are people who dislike Trump? LOL. If King received a few negative reviews because of his anti-Trump bias, it is reasonable to believe he received some positive reviews from the Trump haters. After all, Biden received the most votes in US history. More than JFK, Reagan, FDR, Obama or any candidate for president. He is wildly popular! People love him. Right? Right? Right? That is what you were told.

People voted for him because they wanted the former guy out of office. They don’t worship him like a cult leader.

[CyberGhostface]

I never said that King is responsible for illegal aliens and the homeless. Why do you repeat that lie?


He can say whatever he is told to say because it has no implications on his life. No homeless on his sidewalks, illegal aliens running across his lawn, or concerns with crime in his neighborhood. Others bear the consequences of his opinions.

…

[RichardX]

You don't believe that there are people who dislike Trump? LOL. If King received a few negative reviews because of his anti-Trump bias, it is reasonable to believe he received some positive reviews from the Trump haters. After all, Biden received the most votes in US history. More than JFK, Reagan, FDR, Obama or any candidate for president. He is wildly popular! People love him. Right? Right? Right? That is what you were told.

People voted for him because they wanted the former guy out of office. They don’t worship him like a cult leader.

A cult leader? That sounds like a justification to post positive reviews for any author who criticizes him. Right? Even if they have not read the book.

[CyberGhostface]

A cult leader? That sounds like a justification to post positive reviews for any author who criticizes him. Right? Even if they have not read the book.

You’re the one making assumptions that’s what happening solely because that’s what the other side is doing.

[RichardX]

I never said that King is responsible for illegal aliens and the homeless. Why do you repeat that lie?


He can say whatever he is told to say because it has no implications on his life. No homeless on his sidewalks, illegal aliens running across his lawn, or concerns with crime in his neighborhood. Others bear the consequences of his opinions.

…

Exactly as I said. Thanks for posting that to clarify your false characterization. King is not responsible for the record number of homeless and illegal aliens. Biden deserves that honor. What I said is that King has "no homeless on his sidewalks, illegal aliens running across his lawns, or concerns with crime" because he lives behind walls in protected communities. He can pontificate on these issues without any consequences. Virtue signaling from an old, rich white guy.

[CyberGhostface]

You said homeless people and illegal immigrants are “the consequences of King’s opinions”. Consequence means “a result or effect of an action or condition”. Ergo, “homeless people and illegal immigrants are a result or effect of King’s opinions.” Ergo, King’s opinions are responsible.

[RichardX]

You said homeless people and illegal immigrants are “the consequences of King’s opinions”. Consequence means “a result or effect of an action or condition”. Ergo, “homeless people and illegal immigrants are a result or effect of King’s opinions.” Ergo, King’s opinions are responsible.

Wrong. I said others bear the consequences of his opinions. King lives in privilege. He can pontificate about these issues because others have to bear the consequences. Others have to figure out how to deal with and pay for the care of homeless and illegals while King spends his time watching Netflix. If there is any doubt let me say it again. Joe Biden is the president. He made the decision to open the borders to five million or so illegal immigrants. He is responsible for this disaster. King is just a virtue signaler.

[CyberGhostface]

I said others bear the consequences of his opinions.

And you know what ‘consequence’ means, right? That by definition, a consequence of his opinion would be a direct result…? Even if that’s not what you meant that’s what you are saying.

[RichardX]

I said others bear the consequences of his opinions.

And you know what ‘consequence’ means, right? That by definition, a consequence of his opinion would be a direct result…? Even if that’s not what you meant that’s what you are saying.

I explained it a dozen times. Joe Biden is the president. He made the decisions that allowed millions of illegal aliens to enter the country by his own count. King has nothing to do with that disaster. What King has done is lend his voice to the support of those policies. Why? Here is where your confusion lies. Wait for it. Because King does not bear the CONSEQUENCES of his own opinions. Again, King is not responsible for this situation, but he can support these policies because they have - wait for it - no CONSEQUENCES on his own privileged lifestyle. King is not affected by the policies that he supports. They have no - wait for it - CONSEQUENCES for him. Who do they have CONSEQUENCES for? The people who have to deal with the homeless and illegal aliens.

[CyberGhostface]

What policies has King endorsed here that would lead to an increase in homelessness or illegal immigration? Specifically.

And again, how would King know someone’s immigration status since you think he would have them arrested?

[Lurker]

"The Stephen and Tabitha King (STK) Foundation provides grants for projects in Maine that address the underlying causes and consequences of social and environmental problems...
Past grants have included...services for homeless individuals." Rural Health Information Hub (https://www.ruralhealthinfo.org/funding/4037)

What have you done for them?

[mae]

You do know that “illegals” and “illegal aliens” is highly outdated phrasing, right?

[Randall Flagg]

Alright. It's time to take these debates to the political discussion thread. I think enough has been said here.

[Garrell]

Thank you! I personally love the book so far. Yes, I hate Trump but the Covid and Trump aspects are of minimal consequences. They do reflect the time of the story and SK obviously has Holly and others anti-Trump. Big deal, still a fun story. Anyone else loving it?

[frik]

Thank you! I personally love the book so far. Yes, I hate Trump but the Covid and Trump aspects are of minimal consequences. They do reflect the time of the story and SK obviously has Holly and others anti-Trump. Big deal, still a fun story. Anyone else loving it?

Absolutely. The Trump/Covid references, like you said, reflect the time of the story and don't bother me one bit.

sk

[webstar1000]

This book sucksssssssssssssssssssss. I am having a tough time finishing it. Anyone else feel this is a SLOG?

[RichardX]

You do know that “illegals” and “illegal aliens” is highly outdated phrasing, right?

According to who? The thought police? Here is the dictionary definition of the word:

alien - a foreigner, especially one who is not a naturalized citizen of the country where they are living.

If such a person violates the immigration laws and comes here "illegally" under the laws they are an "illegal alien."

I feel sorry for these people. They are being treated like animals by the Biden administration. Forced to sleep on sidewalks and turned away from parties on Martha's Vineyard.

[RichardX]

This book sucksssssssssssssssssssss. I am having a tough time finishing it. Anyone else feel this is a SLOG?

I give it a C-. Clearly not among his best books, but also not the worst. The latter is becoming increasingly stiff competition since King has written numerous awful books over the last two decades. Hard to pick the absolute worst. Although I disagree with the political virtue signaling, that is not why it is a middling book. The endless COVID nonsense does disrupt the flow of the plot. Every new character has to ask if others are "vaxed." That's like a secret handshake or litmus test to signal whether the character is a "good" person who buys the leftist narrative or an evil Trump supporter (who also must be racist and stupid). King is virtue signaling that he is "hep." It's a bit pathetic. I've never had a single person ever ask me if I was "vaxed." I've never asked if anyone else was. It is not my business. Some of the characters are interesting, though. The problem is that the plot is wildly implausible and slow. It's just a lazy effort to use established characters while grafting on an octogenarian Hannible Lecter. No one here would read this book if it didn't have King's name on it. I will say this. It has its moments but sadly is just a shadow of King's great books from the 70s and 80s. So not a complete waste.

[CyberGhostface]

It makes perfect sense why someone who is a germaphobe/hypochondriac and whose mother died from covid after refusing the vaccine would be asking that. There’s nothing lazy about building on pre-established characters either; King likes Holly a lot and he’s often thinking about her.

[ICry4Oy]

I may be the minority here, but any book with Holly as the main character just doesn't interest me at all. I find her annoying.

[The Great Buchinsky]

It was a pretty quick read and I liked the stuff involving the Harris’ and their crimes. Holly is not a very good lead and the detective work is ridiculous. Every person she talks to just dumps a massive clue in her lap. I still love cracking any new King book but don’t foresee this one getting a re-read anytime soon.

[CyberGhostface]

Just finished the book. Overall I thought it was enjoyable, the Harrises made for compelling villains. I still don’t get why King loves Holly so much but I didn’t mind her.

[webstar1000]

This is the worst King book.. I am shocked anyone likes this...

[Ben Mears]

Finished Holly over the weekend. Not bad but not memorable either. I skipped most of the Barbara Robinson sections as her subplot was just too coincidental and convenient. The Harrises made for unique villains. I found the "elf parfait" and "elf ball" references quite amusing.
The whole preemptive Covid "controversy" was way overblown on both sides. It didn't add anything to the story other than to let us know that in SK's world anyone not vaccinated is a knuckle dragging MAGA supporter and that non-vaxxers are the only people who die from Covid.

[CyberGhostface]

The whole preemptive Covid "controversy" was way overblown on both sides. It didn't add anything to the story other than to let us know that in SK's world anyone not vaccinated is a knuckle dragging MAGA supporter and that non-vaxxers are the only people who die from Covid.

I think only one side took any real offense to it.

That being said there were a few "normal" characters in the story who mentioned they didn't believe in it without any real judgment being passed on them via the narrative. And Holly's mother's death from Covid was a major plot point.

With Barbara's subplot I guessed that somehow she would be kidnapped by the Harrises as a result so yeah I was kind of like 'when is something to happen'. Maybe King was just interested in discussing poetry.

[Ben Mears]

With Barbara's subplot I guessed that somehow she would be kidnapped by the Harrises as a result so yeah I was kind of like 'when is something to happen'. Maybe King was just interested in discussing poetry.

Barbara's subplot felt contrived. Especially in light of the outcome of Jerome's project.

[mae]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbaE6oM2XY4

[Lurker]

I'm about half way through - and it's ok. Kind of a beach book. But some things do bug me.
I'm not sure about books but in all other printed stuff it's COVID. And not a plot spoiler - but on pp 89- 90 are they eating roast or liver. A couple of other things are a bit off but then I'm nit picky with books.

[CyberGhostface]

‘Holly’ won the Goodreads Choice Award for Best Horror (2023).

https://www.goodreads.com/choiceawards/best-horror-books-2023

[Ben Mears]

‘Holly’ won the Goodreads Choice Award for Best Horror (2023).

https://www.goodreads.com/choiceawards/best-horror-books-2023

Quite an accomplishment since it's not a horror novel...

[CyberGhostface]

‘Holly’ is being adapted into a show.

https://www.cbr.com/stephen-king-holly-series/