Buyers obligation to inform seller of substantial below market price

[Randall Flagg]

What if any obligation (moral, ethical, soul, Karma etc.) does a buyer have to inform a seller that their price is substantially below market value?
There are thousands of mitigating circumstances to the answer, yet a passionate but non-abrasive discussion is welcome.

[St. Troy]

...a passionate but non-abrasive discussion is welcome.

:emot-roflolmao:

[Joe315]

Zero. Its the sellers responsibility to research what they are selling. Same goes for a buyer. If you get screwed that’s on you.

[George at C-Springs]

I'd say its just a matter of how well you can live with yourself and your decisions/actions. Some people have absolutely no trouble doing things that others consider wrong, immoral, or even illegal. That's a personal choice. It doesn't matter what I think or what you think ... it's what the individual thinks. This is why the world has thieves, murderers, politicians, etc.

[Lookwhoitis]

thieves, murderers, politicians, what a triumvirate! :rofl:

[Curly]

I'd say its just a matter of how well you can live with yourself and your decisions/actions. Some people have absolutely no trouble doing things that others consider wrong, immoral, or even illegal. That's a personal choice. It doesn't matter what I think or what you think ... it's what the individual thinks. This is why the world has thieves, murderers, politicians, etc.

Well said. The world is made up of all kids of people. Some good, others not so good.

[TnTzDad]

To clear the air, my comment in the previous thread was not meant to be conceited or malicious. I am, and will continue to be, in awe and thoroughly impressed by the stunning collections you all have. I just found it childishly difficult to contain my excitement.

I believe a seller's lack of research and knowledge about what they're selling is on them. Unless there are aptitude issues in play that could be argued in a court of law, it's not stealing if it's being handed to you. The seller I bought from is a retired, well-educated professional. Wise in the respective field of work, not so of the book collection.

[St. Troy]

This is why the world has thieves, murderers, politicians, etc.

What if you steal a murderer who killed a politician?

[herbertwest]

I personally tend to think that it's the seller's responsability to do some research about the "value" of the item that he sells.
If he sell something at a lower price than its "value" (which can depend of many factors, for instance someone's ability to market properly an item or reach the 'right' buyers) but is still happy to do the sell, where is the harm? Seems like a win-win situation.

On the other side : how many people managed to buy a signed "If It Bleeds" for $35, bitched that it was slightly damaged, but flipped the book for over 500? Shouldn't they have sold it for a more "reasonable" price then?

[Kingfan24]

I personally tend to think that it's the seller's responsability to do some research about the "value" of the item that he sells.
If he sell something at a lower price than its "value" (which can depend of many factors, for instance someone's ability to market properly an item or reach the 'right' buyers) but is still happy to do the sell, where is the harm? Seems like a win-win situation.

On the other side : how many people managed to buy a signed "If It Bleeds" for $35, bitched that it was slightly damaged, but flipped the book for over 500? Shouldn't they have sold it for a more "reasonable" price then?

If it bleeds is not a fair comparison as bookstore1 was likely told at what price to sell the books.

[herbertwest]

Yes and no.

Nobody forced flippers to sell it at such a higher price.
They could have decided to sell it at let's say 5 times their cost, and that would still be about 500% margin or so

That leads me to another question : the thread is titled "to inform seller of substantial below market price".
What is the definition of substantial?

[Kingfan24]

Yes and no.

Nobody forced flippers to sell it at such a higher price.
They could have decided to sell it at let's say 5 times their cost, and that would still be about 500% margin or so

That leads me to another question : the thread is titled "to inform seller of substantial below market price".
What is the definition of substantial?

I agree with you that no one forced the high price, but that’s not what is in question here. What’s in question is if you find an item that someone is selling well below market value, is it your duty to inform them that they are substantially undervaluing said item Flipping is another contentious issue in the community, but not what is in question here.

[sentinel]

What if any obligation (moral, ethical, soul, Karma etc.) does a buyer have to inform a seller that their price is substantially below market value?
There are thousands of mitigating circumstances to the answer, yet a passionate but non-abrasive discussion is welcome.

I think this is an excellent question. Many, many times over the years I've bought books, magazines etc... at very reduced prices in comparison to what they were worth.
I got a box of Cavaliers once for $5 that had 8 King's in it. I think if you are buying from a store, yard sale, flea market etc... it is up to the seller to know what they are selling.
But, I think in a forum like this that is built on information, communication and trust, it is imperative that we maintain a "decorum" of integrity that anyone joining can trust that
they are being treated fairly whether they are buying or selling. Just my 2 cents worth.

[St. Troy]

I think the bottom line is that there is no actual iron clad responsibility to inform, but one's personal feelings, which may involve ideals bigger than book collecting, may come into play.

Any discussion really comes down to:
- how much damage you imagine you might do to another by remaining silent
- how much you care about that damage
- how much damage you imagine you might do to your collection by forgoing a great deal
- how much you care about that damage

It (as do many things) boils down to how you think about yourself and others. You may view a "deal" differently if the seller was:
A) an experienced professional who profits in the industry (the "should know better" type)
B) someone like A, but with whom you have a personal relationship
C) someone like A, but who is known for taking advantage of the uninformed and inexperienced while walking the fine line separating honesty from dishonesty
D) a distressed seller fallen on hard times
E) an enthusiastic but inexperienced newbie trying to get started in the industry who would benefit from your knowledge and who reminds you of a young you

How you feel about you and your collecting may also play a role; you may feel:
A) "I'll never get my hands on a lettered Regulators, ever, if I don't take this deal"
B) "I'm comfortable where my collecting is at the moment; in a few years, I'll get there"
C) "I'd have enough to buy this book if I hadn't gotten snookered a few years ago into giving something away like this seller is about to"
D) "I've had a pretty lucky year - that car accident that totaled my car but left me unharmed, the unlikely scholarship that came through for my son - I don't need to take this deal; let me pay it forward and tell this seller what he/she has"

At this point, we might as well debate ice cream flavors.

[TnTzDad]

I think the bottom line is that there is no actual iron clad responsibility to inform, but one's personal feelings, which may involve ideals bigger than book collecting, may come into play.

Any discussion really comes down to:
- how much damage you imagine you might do to another by remaining silent
- how much you care about that damage
- how much damage you imagine you might do to your collection by forgoing a great deal
- how much you care about that damage

It (as do many things) boils down to how you think about yourself and others. You may view a "deal" differently if the seller was:
A) an experienced professional who profits in the industry (the "should know better" type)
B) someone like A, but with whom you have a personal relationship
C) someone like A, but who is known for taking advantage of the uninformed and inexperienced while walking the fine line separating honesty from dishonesty
D) a distressed seller fallen on hard times
E) an enthusiastic but inexperienced newbie trying to get started in the industry who would benefit from your knowledge and who reminds you of a young you

How you feel about you and your collecting may also play a role; you may feel:
A) "I'll never get my hands on a lettered Regulators, ever, if I don't take this deal"
B) "I'm comfortable where my collecting is at the moment; in a few years, I'll get there"
C) "I'd have enough to buy this book if I hadn't gotten snookered a few years ago into giving something away like this seller is about to"
D) "I've had a pretty lucky year - that car accident that totaled my car but left me unharmed, the unlikely scholarship that came through for my son - I don't need to take this deal; let me pay it forward and tell this seller what he/she has"

At this point, we might as well debate ice cream flavors.

Very well said!

[Hunchback Jack]

Setting the if it bleeds case aside, as I agree I think it’s a slightly different situation.

I’m not sure I agree that the onus is all on the seller, and that only the buyer needs to be protected. If a seller overpriced a book with a fake or facsimile signature, thinking it was real, everyone would jump on them to correct the error, to protect buyers. Motivation being that buyers should not get ripped off by a sellers ignorance.

And yet when a seller underprices an item through ignorance, it’s OK for a buyer to rip off the seller?

I don’t know what the answer should be, but it seems wrong to me that in one situation, the seller is seen as being potentially dishonest for having an inaccurate description, whereas in the other, the buyer is seen as being lucky or clever for recognizing, and taking advantage of, an inaccurate description.

[Randall Flagg]

That leads me to another question : the thread is titled "to inform seller of substantial below market price".
What is the definition of substantial?


of considerable importance, size, or worth.

[Kingfan24]

Setting the if it bleeds case aside, as I agree I think it’s a slightly different situation.

I’m not sure I agree that the onus is all on the seller, and that only the buyer needs to be protected. If a seller overpriced a book with a fake or facsimile signature, thinking it was real, everyone would jump on them to correct the error, to protect buyers. Motivation being that buyers should not get ripped off by a sellers ignorance.

And yet when a seller underprices an item through ignorance, it’s OK for a buyer to rip off the seller?

I don’t know what the answer should be, but it seems wrong to me that in one situation, the seller is seen as being potentially dishonest for having an inaccurate description, whereas in the other, the buyer is seen as being lucky or clever for recognizing, and taking advantage of, an inaccurate description.

Very well stated.

[surly]

I think the bottom line is that there is no actual iron clad responsibility to inform, but one's personal feelings, which may involve ideals bigger than book collecting, may come into play.

That pretty much sums it up for me. I feel like this would have been a question for an ethics test in school. If i recall, the criteria to evaluate was something like:

Would I recommend doing the same thing to someone else?
Would I be happy if someone did the same thing to me?
Were the actions fair to all involved?
Do my actions represent or involve dishonesty?
Would I be proud if my child acted the same way?
Would I want my actions posted publicly?
Do my actions leave me with a clear conscience?

No right or wrong answer(s), as long as you sleep with a clear conscience.
I know what i would do.

[tippy4]

Yes and no.

Nobody forced flippers to sell it at such a higher price.
They could have decided to sell it at let's say 5 times their cost, and that would still be about 500% margin or so

That leads me to another question : the thread is titled "to inform seller of substantial below market price".
What is the definition of substantial?

I agree with you that no one forced the high price, but that’s not what is in question here. What’s in question is if you find an item that someone is selling well below market value, is it your duty to inform them that they are substantially undervaluing said item Flipping is another contentious issue in the community, but not what is in question here.

Actually....someone did force flippers to sell at a higher price.....it was the buyers who were willing to pay that price.

It's our fault. A few years back a member here sold me a a signed copy of Doctor Sleep. I bought it because I was pissed off I had come back from the Boulder event without a signed copy. I paid $350 for it and could not believe I had done so. But now because of books like The Outsider, Mr Mercedes, Elevation and If it Bleeds....$800 is the new norm. If we stopped buying at that price....sellers would lower their price eventually.

Market value is what we make it.....and to some degree it is a matter of opinion.

As to my position.....I do not comment on people's pricing. I find it to be in bad taste when someone tells me I am pricing something too high. Let them figure it out and they will lower their price if they want to. As far as if I am pricing something too low....if you are a fried of mine...please tell me....and I will tell you if you are a friend of mine....but if I don't know you.....and I see what I see as a very good price on something......I am going to buy it.

When you go into the grocery store and they are selling Strawberries for $0.99 a basket, do you go to the manager and tell him he's selling them too cheap?

[Merlin1958]

Circumstances would dictate to me. That and the size of the difference. Karma's a bitch boy's and girl's!!!

That said generally speaking and all things being equal, buyer and seller beware.

I know that's not a very precise answer, but that is how I would roll.

[Ari_Racing]

I personally tend to think that it's the seller's responsability to do some research about the "value" of the item that he sells.
If he sell something at a lower price than its "value" (which can depend of many factors, for instance someone's ability to market properly an item or reach the 'right' buyers) but is still happy to do the sell, where is the harm? Seems like a win-win situation.

On the other side : how many people managed to buy a signed "If It Bleeds" for $35, bitched that it was slightly damaged, but flipped the book for over 500? Shouldn't they have sold it for a more "reasonable" price then?

If it bleeds is not a fair comparison as bookstore1 was likely told at what price to sell the books.

Agreed.

Besides, I have the theory that Bookstore1 always keeps some signed copies to sell for a higher value later on. They did it with Revival in 2015.

[Randall Flagg]

Poll added to topic. Poll is confidential.

[Frondz]

I find this to be a fascinating topic as both a collector and a seller myself. I think HBJ already made this point, but if someone snags a SL 'Slinger for 2k, would he/she not be praised and thought to be extremely lucky? If someone buys a SL 'SLinger for 15k because it is the only one on the market and they just have to have it, would the seller not be thought to be price gouging? (certainly in some collecting groups he/she would be). Both of these situations (not necessarily with this book) happen all the time. This to me says a lot about the book collecting community, but also brings to question the idea: does altruism exist in capitalism? What would a buyer gain by notifying a seller of an underpriced book? What would a buyer gain by notifying a seller of an overpriced book? Does it go both ways? There certainly are some honest sellers who do not try to swindle unscrupulous buyers, and there are certainly many who do. But, I've never known a buyer to pass up a good deal.
Brings to mind:
https://d3525k1ryd2155.cloudfront.net/h/359/016/919016359.0.l.jpg

[fernandito]

Circumstances would dictate to me. That and the size of the difference. Karma's a bitch boy's and girl's!!!

That said generally speaking and all things being equal, buyer and seller beware.

I know that's not a very precise answer, but that is how I would roll.

What Bill said^

[herbertwest]

I personally tend to think that it's the seller's responsability to do some research about the "value" of the item that he sells.
If he sell something at a lower price than its "value" (which can depend of many factors, for instance someone's ability to market properly an item or reach the 'right' buyers) but is still happy to do the sell, where is the harm? Seems like a win-win situation.

On the other side : how many people managed to buy a signed "If It Bleeds" for $35, bitched that it was slightly damaged, but flipped the book for over 500? Shouldn't they have sold it for a more "reasonable" price then?

If it bleeds is not a fair comparison as bookstore1 was likely told at what price to sell the books.

Agreed.

Besides, I have the theory that Bookstore1 always keeps some signed copies to sell for a higher value later on. They did it with Revival in 2015.

That could explain why King mentionned 500 copies, although he didnt explicitly said he was signing 500 copies ;)

[herbertwest]

That leads me to another question : the thread is titled "to inform seller of substantial below market price".
What is the definition of substantial?


of considerable importance, size, or worth.

I know the word, it's almost the same in french, but that doesnt really help me trying to understanding the question of the thread.

Is something 500% cheaper (let's say 30$ instead of $150) being part of the equation, or does it have to be 500? 1000? 5000?
What about finding something 0.50 while it's worth 30? (which means a 60 times value)

[Randall Flagg]

Substantial doesn't mean %. It means worth.

[herbertwest]

Which also depends of each of us.

For me, 500 may seem a lot.
For others, that may seem like peanuts.

[Hunchback Jack]

I would think “substantial“ means “enough that you would question whether the seller is aware of the true value of the item they are selling“.

If an item is priced close enough to market value that you can assume the seller has “Priced it to sell“, then I think that’s a different situation. It’s when the item is priced so low that it is clear the seller doesn’t know what they have that is this situation, I think. The significant point is the sellers ignorance, not the price differential itself.

[George at C-Springs]

What if you steal a murderer who killed a politician?

Praise or damnation ... depends on the politician.

[Rahfa]

Years ago, I bought a Drawing/Three first edition for $50 - what arrived was a signed "Author's Edition" without the slipcase. Obviously I wasn't going to email somebody and tell them I was going to send more money when they couldn't be bothered to literally open the book's cover and see what they had.

In another case, a copy of New Lt's Rap was listed on Abebooks for $250 - which was obviously a ridiculous price. I offered $350, and told him he had undervalued it - that should have been a clue that maybe it was worth a little more than the ask. Deal was completed at $350. I also knew that people would probably to buy it at $250 and I didn't want to be in line - I knew I could beat a "normal" offer.

I bought an s/l of The Stand for $1000 - but that's certainly not a bargain. Yeah, I sold it for $2500, but still...

So, long story short is I did tell the New Lt's Rap guy that he had made a mistake, and made a higher offer, but I wasn't going to bid against myself either.

I don't think there's any obligation to volunteer a bad price anymore than I have much patience for people who complain about auctions/sales too high on the other end.

[tippy4]

Welcome back Nathan...been almost a year since your last post....good to see you.

[TnTzDad]

Earlier this week I made light of a possible sale that could be an amazing deal. It was...deal of the decade amazing. While I seriously considered telling the story, I'm glad I didn't. I learned the seller found out about what he lost out on. In the three days it took to receive my book I never heard a word from him. About half an hour after I got it, I saw an email from him on my phone pop-up, figuring he was tracking it. I didn't expect to be cursed out, but I did expect something along the lines of how good I must feel. Instead, he was as cordial as he was before. He emailed to ask me for advice on selling his non-King books. With the way he handled this, I can only assume he would side with those of us who say no, it's not the buyer's responsibility to enlighten the seller. Yes, he's very enlightened now, understandably over-cautious and turning down offers that some think are perfectly reasonable. IMHO, the seller is a class act. I wouldn't be asking me for favors.

[Kingfan24]

After reading all these comments, my Nephew will be getting a schooling this weekend on King collecting! I am afraid he will be taken advantaged by unscrupulous book dealers/collectors. If you are interested, John Grisham wrote two books on this.
Camino Island and Camino Winds. Easy fun reading

Glenn, just for interest sake... you would not have bought that Slinger? I know you need one.... and is a big want for you. Are you stating that given that chance at the $2000 price point you would NOT have bought it but rather informed him that it is too low a price?

I'm moving this topic, since it's more of a dialogue topic than auction revalation. Is it unethical to knowingly play along by showing a semi-interest in a "pretty good book", and then pay, say, less than 1/4 the value of a truly sought after gem? Would it matter if that seller were doing so to pay his rent in light of current circumstances, or maybe disregarded if an unwise retired chemist were selling some random books? I ask because I'm struggling with what I just did...but I still did it. :evil: I just made the deal of the decade, which I'll reveal later this week when it arrives. (RF, you'll be eating crow on this one for that payment plan. 8))

This comment truly disturbs me if you really did this to the guy selling the gunslinger. You played along and then knowingly paid what you did. I know what you paid and it's pretty sad for the seller. You say you struggle with what you did, but I don't think you really struggled all that much if you played games with the guy. The poll on this thread just confirms what I already figured about the collecting community itself.

[TnTzDad]

I have no problem forwarding the email correspondence betwen myself and the seller, showing I asked several questions regarding what number is was and, when told there was no number, stating I assumed it was signed based on his description. He advertised the book, with a clip describing a maroon book. He is a well-educated, licensed medical profesional, not a mentally challenged patron. He did not research nor acknowledge his own referenced clip or that of my questions. Nothing I did was malicious or misleading. He led, I followed, and made an investment. As stated above, that you did not acknowledge, he handled it like a gentleman, going so far as to ask me for assistance after the fact.

[bdwyer19]

You sound like you’re ok with what transpired. So why did you say you were struggling with your choice?

[herbertwest]

You sound like you’re ok with what transpired. So why did you say you were struggling with your choice?

I dont really know what we're talking about, but for instance, I would struggle with spending 2K even if I knew the book would actually 6k. Not that I don't have that money. But there are many factors to take into account if it was the case, including the tax to pay on a resell.

Anyway, it was my 2 (worthless) cents comment

[David Hawk]

Wow. Some people will go to any lengths to feel better about themselves. Your jealous, petty bull made one long-time member leave for much the same reason. Regardless of what TnTzDad posted here, and it may have been insensitive, he did do it right. No different than the poor soul that puts his paycheck in the slot machine, only for the next lucky person to hit it on the first pull, this guy made out and YOU CAN'T STAND IT.

"I have received a few emails. It looks like I sold you a numbered, signed copy of the Gunslinger. You posted it on darktower.org. You being an experience collector knew that the book was worth much more than I was asking. It would have been the right thing to do to give me a heads up, especially since you could tell that I was an inexperienced book seller. This was a “one off sale” for me. I am writing to you to appeal to your better qualities. What can we do about this? You made me out to be a fool in your posting.

Regards

Bill

Bill,

I will not entertain what was said on the forum, of which I'm no longer a member of. However, since you are entertaining input from other people, did you not tell another member that you sold it for $1,100 and were okay with it? That same member told you what it was worth yesterday and, yet, you reached out to me for further assistance to sell your other books.

Please review the email highlights below, which you included in the current email. I asked everything to bring its true nature to light, of which you did not acknowledge. You, furthermore, copied and pasted a note from The Collector that says "The cover boards are in maroon in color..." I also did not haggle to make you lower your price.

I feel everything was conducted as a formal business transaction, paid as such through Paypal and would hold up in a court of law. Therefore, I regret to inform you that I will not be making any further arrangements regarding the sale."

[Joe315]

Wow. Some people will go to any lengths to feel better about themselves. Your jealous, petty bull made one long-time member leave for much the same reason. Regardless of what TnTzDad posted here, and it may have been insensitive, he did do it right. No different than the poor soul that puts his paycheck in the slot machine, only for the next lucky person to hit it on the first pull, this guy made out and YOU CAN'T STAND IT.

"I have received a few emails. It looks like I sold you a numbered, signed copy of the Gunslinger. You posted it on darktower.org. You being an experience collector knew that the book was worth much more than I was asking. It would have been the right thing to do to give me a heads up, especially since you could tell that I was an inexperienced book seller. This was a “one off sale” for me. I am writing to you to appeal to your better qualities. What can we do about this? You made me out to be a fool in your posting.

Regards

Bill

Bill,

I will not entertain what was said on the forum, of which I'm no longer a member of. However, since you are entertaining input from other people, did you not tell another member that you sold it for $1,100 and were okay with it? That same member told you what it was worth yesterday and, yet, you reached out to me for further assistance to sell your other books.

Please review the email highlights below, which you included in the current email. I asked everything to bring its true nature to light, of which you did not acknowledge. You, furthermore, copied and pasted a note from The Collector that says "The cover boards are in maroon in color..." I also did not haggle to make you lower your price.

I feel everything was conducted as a formal business transaction, paid as such through Paypal and would hold up in a court of law. Therefore, I regret to inform you that I will not be making any further arrangements regarding the sale."

What is this correspondence from? Who is bill and who is he speaking with?

[Sai Sheb]

Wow. Some people will go to any lengths to feel better about themselves. Your jealous, petty bull made one long-time member leave for much the same reason. Regardless of what TnTzDad posted here, and it may have been insensitive, he did do it right. No different than the poor soul that puts his paycheck in the slot machine, only for the next lucky person to hit it on the first pull, this guy made out and YOU CAN'T STAND IT.

"I have received a few emails. It looks like I sold you a numbered, signed copy of the Gunslinger. You posted it on darktower.org. You being an experience collector knew that the book was worth much more than I was asking. It would have been the right thing to do to give me a heads up, especially since you could tell that I was an inexperienced book seller. This was a “one off sale” for me. I am writing to you to appeal to your better qualities. What can we do about this? You made me out to be a fool in your posting.

Regards

Bill

Bill,

I will not entertain what was said on the forum, of which I'm no longer a member of. However, since you are entertaining input from other people, did you not tell another member that you sold it for $1,100 and were okay with it? That same member told you what it was worth yesterday and, yet, you reached out to me for further assistance to sell your other books.

Please review the email highlights below, which you included in the current email. I asked everything to bring its true nature to light, of which you did not acknowledge. You, furthermore, copied and pasted a note from The Collector that says "The cover boards are in maroon in color..." I also did not haggle to make you lower your price.

I feel everything was conducted as a formal business transaction, paid as such through Paypal and would hold up in a court of law. Therefore, I regret to inform you that I will not be making any further arrangements regarding the sale."

What is this correspondence from? Who is bill and who is he speaking with?

Don't ask me, I'm lost... I only popped in for a pint of milk.

[David Hawk]

Since the rat won't step up I will. He, and I can't prove who, took TnTzDad's (a friend that referred me here and where I got the emaills from) posts and emailed them to Bill, the seller of that Gunslinger. TnTzDad NEVER mentioned Bill by name but the cry baby turned his side of the story around to make him feel like a fool. Yeah, TnTzDad should have kept his mouth shut. Bill isn't retarded. He's a friggin educated graduate! Did this same rat member email the eBay seller that sold that book for $2,000 telling him to go get more money??? I seriously doubt it. Show me a DOCUMENTED SALE of the value of a S/L Gunslinger! Those for sale at $6,000 have been there FOREVER! The ONLY one of record is the one at $2,000 from last week. The market rate is set by the buyer, and NO ONE is buying those books. Kingfan, not saying you did this..., if your truly disturbed and have a problem with "the community itself" why do you stay in the community. Rumor has it your in a habit of running members off. But don't let the door hit you...!

[Merlin1958]

:sharepopcorn::sharepopcorn:

[Rahfa]

Is the complaint that a s/l Gunslinger sold for $1100, and that was taking advantage of the seller?

Yes, $1100 is a bargain price for that book - I would say with minimal patience, it's going to sell for $2-3K, maybe a lot more at the right time and place. Is it worth $6K? Maybe if you're a seller with a solid rep, but I don't think Joe Shmoe gets that much (but I dunno, maybe).

But either way, $1100 is not chicken scratch - when you start paying $1K for something, that's real money whether it's a bargain price or not. And, a seller doesn't list/offer something for $1K if they don't have *some* idea what the item's worth, whether they've undervalued or not. That's not a seller's ignorance that some unscrupulous cad is taking advantage of, but maybe a lack of a seller's follow-through on researching a truer value.

If we're talking Grandma's garage sale and you find a s/l for $1.50 and don't say anything, yeah, that kind of makes you lame (buy the book, just don't brag about it). But spending $1000? I don't see how anybody got really taken advantage of here.

[T-Dogz_AK47]

Is the complaint that a s/l Gunslinger sold for $1100, and that was taking advantage of the seller?

Yes, $1100 is a bargain price for that book - I would say with minimal patience, it's going to sell for $2-3K, maybe a lot more at the right time and place. Is it worth $6K? Maybe if you're a seller with a solid rep, but I don't think Joe Shmoe gets that much (but I dunno, maybe).

But either way, $1100 is not chicken scratch - when you start paying $1K for something, that's real money whether it's a bargain price or not. And, a seller doesn't list/offer something for $1K if they don't have *some* idea what the item's worth, whether they've undervalued or not. That's not a seller's ignorance that some unscrupulous cad is taking advantage of, but maybe a lack of a seller's follow-through on researching a truer value.

If we're talking Grandma's garage sale and you find a s/l for $1.50 and don't say anything, yeah, that kind of makes you lame (buy the book, just don't brag about it). But spending $1000? I don't see how anybody got really taken advantage of here.

This. +1 :thumbsup:

[webstar1000]

What’s really shitty? Is that a member here took screenshots and tried to make the seller feel like shit for his sale. That is worse than buying the item itself for a great price. I find that disgusting and wrong on so many levels.

[Joe315]

Is the complaint that a s/l Gunslinger sold for $1100, and that was taking advantage of the seller?

Yes, $1100 is a bargain price for that book - I would say with minimal patience, it's going to sell for $2-3K, maybe a lot more at the right time and place. Is it worth $6K? Maybe if you're a seller with a solid rep, but I don't think Joe Shmoe gets that much (but I dunno, maybe).

But either way, $1100 is not chicken scratch - when you start paying $1K for something, that's real money whether it's a bargain price or not. And, a seller doesn't list/offer something for $1K if they don't have *some* idea what the item's worth, whether they've undervalued or not. That's not a seller's ignorance that some unscrupulous cad is taking advantage of, but maybe a lack of a seller's follow-through on researching a truer value.

If we're talking Grandma's garage sale and you find a s/l for $1.50 and don't say anything, yeah, that kind of makes you lame (buy the book, just don't brag about it). But spending $1000? I don't see how anybody got really taken advantage of here.

It takes very little time to do the research on a book, especially those of an author as popular as king. If a seller is too lazy to look at what they have and take the 5 minutes to research they’ll lose out. Same is true for a buyer (although a buyer has more protections so they could get their money back).

[David Hawk]

On TnTs behalf I will say he's one of the best guys I've ever worked with. He's an honest humble military vet that goes out of his way for anyone. But hehas removed himself from this to stay out of another war, even if it is one of words. I see some good sides to this place. There are lots of good resources and most here are good hearted and while I have no problem having a heated debate it's not how I want to go about collecting. No one should have to prove themselves worthy by paying full dollar in the eyes of the entitled for a collection they hold dear. From what he told me there are a number of what he called "flippers" but he bought these books as heirlooms for his kids. He told me the Gunslinger had been stored for 38 years. I wouldnt' expect to see it for another 50. I already said how crappy it is that someone cried about this behind the scene. Which of you will he do it to next? Take care...

[shaq]

Damn Merlin, i gotta spread more love around before i send you more reps!!

[Randall Flagg]

What’s really shitty? Is that a member here took screenshots and tried to make the seller feel like shit for his sale. That is worse than buying the item itself for a great price. I find that disgusting and wrong on so many levels.
What proof do you have of that? AFAIK, taking a screenshot of a public discussion is not against site rules. It may or may not be the right thing to do, but the posts are public.

[Joe315]

What’s really shitty? Is that a member here took screenshots and tried to make the seller feel like shit for his sale. That is worse than buying the item itself for a great price. I find that disgusting and wrong on so many levels.
What proof do you have of that? AFAIK, taking a screenshot of a public discussion is not against site rules. It may or may not be the right thing to do, but the posts are public.

The guy who just posted above said that’s what happened. https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?22847-Buyers-obligation-to-inform-seller-of-substantial-below-market-price&p=1200222&viewfull=1#post1200222

[webstar1000]

What’s really shitty? Is that a member here took screenshots and tried to make the seller feel like shit for his sale. That is worse than buying the item itself for a great price. I find that disgusting and wrong on so many levels.
What proof do you have of that? AFAIK, taking a screenshot of a public discussion is not against site rules. It may or may not be the right thing to do, but the posts are public.

I just read up thread. I have no proof. Going off why David Hawk said RF. And no it’s not against the rules... just a shitty thing to do. Just made that guy feel like shit for no reason.


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[David Hawk]

HA HA HA HA HA!!! Jokes on you jealous a holes! He's been selling on eBay for MORE THAN 20 YEARS so he had EVERY resource at his fingers and CHOSE not to use it!!! https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/gromerx?filter=feedback_page:RECEIVED_AS_SELLER&_trksid=p2047675.l2560

[bdwyer19]

This is just bizarre. Posted and then deleted right away. He’s been on the forum for only a few days, and all he’s done is try to cause problems.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200601/1bcb2263fbebc270555c017ee0985fc9.jpg


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[Aremag]

Some posts remind me why I wouldn't be sad if the internet disappeared and everyone could go back to keeping their opinions mostly to themselves. Including me.

[St. Troy]

Funny how many ways there are to say "I wouldn't have done that."

[amd013]

HA HA HA HA HA!!! Jokes on you jealous a holes! He's been selling on eBay for MORE THAN 20 YEARS so he had EVERY resource at his fingers and CHOSE not to use it!!! https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/gromerx?filter=feedback_page:RECEIVED_AS_SELLER&_trksid=p2047675.l2560

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, he has been a member of ebay for 22 years, but it looks like in that time he has only 35 feedbacks as a seller. The other nearly 600 feedbacks are as a buyer. What resources does ebay provide to help you with pricing of rare items, or even knowing they are rare items?

[Rahfa]

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, he has been a member of ebay for 22 years, but it looks like in that time he has only 35 feedbacks as a seller. The other nearly 600 feedbacks are as a buyer. What resources does ebay provide to help you with pricing of rare items, or even knowing they are rare items?

Not to take any true side here, but let's assume he started on ebay at age 20 - now, he'd be 42. Back in 1998, Ebay was a true auction site where buyers really did learn what were valuable and what werem't, and how to figure out how to get the right item at the right price. Everybody here remembers the wild west of those days.

The "resource" should have been 22 years of experience and gained knowledge from using the site. Plus, there's a search bar and like 20 different ways to narrow searches - he could have typed "Signed Gunslinger" and come up with some options.

Now, your point is not wrong - he was mostly a buyer, dabbled in selling, and didn't do enough work in this instance to really figure out what he had. It happens to everybody.

[Sai Sheb]

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, he has been a member of ebay for 22 years, but it looks like in that time he has only 35 feedbacks as a seller. The other nearly 600 feedbacks are as a buyer. What resources does ebay provide to help you with pricing of rare items, or even knowing they are rare items?

Not to take any true side here, but let's assume he started on ebay at age 20 - now, he'd be 42. Back in 1998, Ebay was a true auction site where buyers really did learn what were valuable and what werem't, and how to figure out how to get the right item at the right price. Everybody here remembers the wild west of those days.

The "resource" should have been 22 years of experience and gained knowledge from using the site. Plus, there's a search bar and like 20 different ways to narrow searches - he could have typed "Signed Gunslinger" and come up with some options.

Now, your point is not wrong - he was mostly a buyer, dabbled in selling, and didn't do enough work in this instance to really figure out what he had. It happens to everybody.

Agreed...
I've been caught out in the past because my own arrogance told me I knew everything... I didn't.

I don't blame the guy who bought off me it was my fault.