The Institute Spoilers: Be aware!!!!!!!!

[Merlin1958]

So, I'm about 3/4 of the way through and I;m enjoying the book so far. Perhaps a little too much time spent at the institute in the beginning, but the pace has started to pick up.Certainly not his best work, but so far I'm thinking it will not end up as one of the worst.

We shall see. I hope to finish it this evening.

[shaq]

This was the first book I listened to, rather than read and I really enjoyed it.

I kept wanting to return to the book and listen to it, see what happened.

Overall, thought it was a cracking piece of entertainment.

I do have a couple of comments, and will put it in spoilers (even though the thread is marked spoiler alert!) that are discussion points, but trying not make them look like criticisms too much.




1 - I really did like the intro, and felt for Luke with the demise of his parents, and was expecting them to send him away to the institute, rather than have them totally wiped out. I wasn't actually ready for that when it happened.

2 - King puts in a few trademark links to some of his other stories, I don't actually think he needed to, and to me, they are beginning to feel more and more like shameful plugs rather than genuine tie ins. I would have loved (and was waiting for) a tie in with 'Firestarter' which would have seemed more fitting, unless I missed anything and there was a subtle link in there that went over my head.

3 - What I call 'The Hand of God' moment, which Mr King often uses in his stories. ie the corny moment in the story that takes me out of it totally, and makes me go wtf! In this case the floating building!! Shit man! Either King seriously cannot finish a story, or he does it on purpose now! Personally I do think he can finish his stories really well, but there are a few that have slightly exaggerated endings.

4 - As a kid, my drama teacher used to hate it when he asked the kids to create an improv play, and they ultimately ended in scenes that degenerated into mass shoot outs, ie the kids resorted to running around shooting everything in sight with no further plot! This was done twice here near the end, one at the copshop, and at the institute.

But you should know that no one messes with a small community, unless you really want to get f**ked up! lol

I do wonder if how those two key moments could have been played out any differently.

A few other points too, that I haven't touched on, as would make it look like I am knocking the story.

Overall to me, damned good entertainment none the less, and not knocking it, just thoughts that came to mind after I finished it.

[Bev Vincent]

I'm particularly fond of the eating establishment in DuPray, NC.

[shaq]

I'm particularly fond of the eating establishment in DuPray, NC.



Hopefully, he can start a chain of restaurants in each book....next one 'Shaqs Eatery' lol!


I'd take it. I believe he named a character after a fan in this? Not sure where I read that


Not a major one, but one mentioned in the back story?

[Merlin1958]

Shaq's comments:

1 - I really did like the intro, and felt for Luke with the demise of his parents, and was expecting them to send him away to the institute, rather than have them totally wiped out. I wasn't actually ready for that when it happened.

Agreed. I didn't see that coming either, but it proved to be a good plot twist. It really reinforced the evil incarnate at the institute.]For the record, I totally agree with you, Shac. "The Institute" is a damn fine work of entertainment and I enjoyed reading it more than a couple of his recent offerings. Having said that, I'm humbly offering some of my own thoughts regarding the book.

2 - King puts in a few trademark links to some of his other stories, I don't actually think he needed to, and to me, they are beginning to feel more and more like shameful plugs rather than genuine tie ins. I would have loved (and was waiting for) a tie in with 'Firestarter' which would have seemed more fitting, unless I missed anything and there was a subtle link in there that went over my head.

Okay, I got a whole lot to say regarding this point!!! lol First, I want to bring up a pet peeve of mine from "Black House" and the "Dark Tower". BH introduced us to a "Breaker like" "Institute" (Yes, it's intentional) called the "Big Combine". an entity that smacked of the "Institute" described in this book. As a matter of fact, I kinda see "The Institute" as a possible pre-quel to the Big Combine or if you prefer, Algul Siento. It always roasted my nuts that a lot of the DT related material written in BH never tied in to the later volumes of TDT series. Maybe it had to do with some contractual crap with, Straub being a co-author, or King just "moved on" but it always seemed like a cheat that he never included any BH material in the series. So, you can see where I'm coming from when I say that this book had a shitload of tie-in's to TDT. To me, it felt like a pre-quel volume to the series. Perhaps an origin story for "The Breakers" and also for the facilities he wrote about i.e. "Algul Siento" and or "The Big Combination". What do you think? IMHO, Mr. King should have disclosed in the novel or some other fashion that this was a "DT related book". It just smacks of one to me anyway. As to your statement, I don't know if I'd call them "plugs", but yeah there sure as heck should have been or at least suggested tie-ins to "Firestarter", "TDT series" and maybe even "The Shining" (though he pretty much tied that saga up with "Dr. Sleep"). In any case, that's just some of my thoughts after reading "The Institute".

3 - What I call 'The Hand of God' moment, which Mr King often uses in his stories. ie the corny moment in the story that takes me out of it totally, and makes me go wtf! In this case the floating building!! Shit man! Either King seriously cannot finish a story, or he does it on purpose now! Personally I do think he can finish his stories really well, but there are a few that have slightly exaggerated endings.

I dunno, I really didn't see the ending as a typical, King "Hand of God" moment. However that may be more from what, King has written in the past than what was contained in the book ala "Firestarter", "The Shining", "Dr. Sleep" and the "Dark Tower" series. Granted, Shaq, he did kind of slip in the whole "Other Institutes" plot line out of no where with no real explanation or background. Not to mention really revealing the basis or mission statement for "The Institute" in the first place. Exactly how did the "Bosses" know which folks to eliminate in order to "Save the World" and where did the international world saving community come from? How was it initiated and formed? We were king of left on our own to fill in that part of the story. Never the less, IMHO, after reading the forementioned books I had no issue with the premise that all the international institutes collectively could generate enough psychic power to lift the building. Having said that I did think he could have done a little better with their combined abilities than just dropping a house on the bad guys.

4 - As a kid, my drama teacher used to hate it when he asked the kids to create an improv play, and they ultimately ended in scenes that degenerated into mass shoot outs, ie the kids resorted to running around shooting everything in sight with no further plot! This was done twice here near the end, one at the cop shop, and at the institute.

Again, I don't know about that. I've always really enjoyed, King's writing for action scenes. One of my all time favorites is the action written in TDOTT for, Eddie et al. True, in this book, a lot of folks ended up catching a bullet, but it was fast paced and I couldn't stop reading at that point. However, I do grant you that it was not exactly up to the quality of TDOTT.

Anyway, that's just my "Three Beans" on the book. I'd love to hear the thoughts others my have had whether on my thoughts or others.

[shaq]

Having said that I did think he could have done a little better with their combined abilities than just dropping a house on the bad guys.



Nailed it right there Wild Bill! But that is my hand of god moment. For me anyway.

I did enjoy it tremendously, and love the thought it could be BH related, sits very well indeed.

[Merlin1958]

Having said that I did think he could have done a little better with their combined abilities than just dropping a house on the bad guys.



Nailed it right there Wild Bill! But that is my hand of god moment. For me anyway.

I did enjoy it tremendously, and love the thought it could be BH related, sits very well indeed.

Just to clarify. I meant it is TDT related and BH should have been tied in to the series at some point. But I'm with you, Bro!!

[Ben Mears]

I rate it as a 6/10. Not top tier but still enjoyable. The ending was as weak as that of The Outsider.
It is unlikely but I'm wondering if SK included the passage below as an indirect shout out to Suntup Press:

"...and, before that, the complete works of Cormac McCarthy"

[sullichin]

Just finished this. I really enjoyed it. Besides the references posted here there were also a couple to insomnia. One of the kids thinks about the Seuss story The 500 Hats of Bartholomew Cubbins and the epithet "Exalted and Revered" is used. I kinda wish he leaned into the Insomnia/DT connections and talked about the Purpose / The Random more directly I think it could have fit well

[Kongo]

Just finished this. I really enjoyed it. Besides the references posted here there were also a couple to insomnia. One of the kids thinks about the Seuss story The 500 Hats of Bartholomew Cubbins and the epithet "Exalted and Revered" is used. I kinda wish he leaned into the Insomnia/DT connections and talked about the Purpose / The Random more directly I think it could have fit well

This is my biggest regret. I loved the book, and it doesn't necessarily have to be connected to anything, but it would of been nice. Especially since it could work with so many things, DT, Carrie, Firestarter, Dead Zone, The Shining. The list goes on!

Also really weird complaint, but what was the point of replicating the children's rooms in the institute? Especially since they could care less about their feelings, and the fact that they head to back half in less than a month? It's a cool idea, I just found it weird with how "temporary" everything is

[Merlin1958]

Just finished this. I really enjoyed it. Besides the references posted here there were also a couple to insomnia. One of the kids thinks about the Seuss story The 500 Hats of Bartholomew Cubbins and the epithet "Exalted and Revered" is used. I kinda wish he leaned into the Insomnia/DT connections and talked about the Purpose / The Random more directly I think it could have fit well

This is my biggest regret. I loved the book, and it doesn't necessarily have to be connected to anything, but it would of been nice. Especially since it could work with so many things, DT, Carrie, Firestarter, Dead Zone, The Shining. The list goes on!

Also really weird complaint, but what was the point of replicating the children's rooms in the institute? Especially since they could care less about their feelings, and the fact that they head to back half in less than a month? It's a cool idea, I just found it weird with how "temporary" everything is

Well, of course you're right about them not catering to their feelings, but regardless I suppose it's still better to havethem as docile and complacent as possible rather than having to wrangle them every time they wanted them to do something. You know, kinda like first the carrot then the stick? That was my take anyway.

[RichardX]

This one reads like the third runner up in a competition to write a Stephen King book. All the old character traits and storylines are recycled. Take a bit of Firestarter, Dr. Sleep, It, and mix them together to get a forced Stranger Things. None of the characters in the book resonated. That was most surprising because character development is King's usual strength. I thought the book started promising with Tim's story but then there is the abrupt transition for several hundred pages to Luke that begins to really drag. Luke's escape, the shootout, and inevitable good vs evil confrontation at the end felt like King phoned it in. All King's books are readable and enjoyable but this had a half-baked feel to it that I last recall from Sleeping Beauties. I give it a 4 out of 10.

[Kingfan24]

This one reads like the third runner up in a competition to write a Stephen King book. All the old character traits and storylines are recycled. Take a bit of Firestarter, Dr. Sleep, It, and mix them together to get a forced Stranger Things. None of the characters in the book resonated. That was most surprising because character development is King's usual strength. I thought the book started promising with Tim's story but then there is the abrupt transition for several hundred pages to Luke that begins to really drag. Luke's escape, the shootout, and inevitable good vs evil confrontation at the end felt like King phoned it in. All King's books are readable and enjoyable but this had a half-baked feel to it that I last recall from Sleeping Beauties. I give it a 4 out of 10.

I’m with you 100%. What a bizarre departure from Tim’s story for that long. The whole book, like you said, felt recycled. The “friendly” orderly, the realization of powers, the hand of god moments. I think king is getting a little old, a little tired and has resorted to retelling stories with different characters. 5/10 for me while sleeping beauties receives a 3/10.

[Ben Mears]

This one reads like the third runner up in a competition to write a Stephen King book. All the old character traits and storylines are recycled. Take a bit of Firestarter, Dr. Sleep, It, and mix them together to get a forced Stranger Things. None of the characters in the book resonated. That was most surprising because character development is King's usual strength. I thought the book started promising with Tim's story but then there is the abrupt transition for several hundred pages to Luke that begins to really drag. Luke's escape, the shootout, and inevitable good vs evil confrontation at the end felt like King phoned it in. All King's books are readable and enjoyable but this had a half-baked feel to it that I last recall from Sleeping Beauties. I give it a 4 out of 10.

Can't argue with that. As you said, it is readable but certainly not memorable. For me the last memorable SK book is 11/22/63. I stopped buying his books after Revival. I reserve at the library and if the story resonates I will purchase a copy. Hasn't happened yet.

[RichardX]

King gets mostly favorable reviews now due to his legacy. This is one of the better reviews that lays out both the good and bad:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/sep/04/the-institute-stephen-king-review

[Merlin1958]

Personal (and public I suppose) reviews are cool and stuff, but with all due respect "I" was hoping for more discussion about the story and any connection theories like I posted above. Don't mistake this post as discouraging any other discourse folks feel like sharing. By all means post away!! I was just hoping to encourage more discussion of the plot and so forth.

For some reason I can't seem to dispel thoughts of TDT and other novels connections to this story as I have posted above. I've actually started a re=read of "Black House" and will likely follow that with "Firestarter" culling connections to this book. It just seems to have struck a nerve with me I suppose. So, if anyone out there has entertained similar thoughts please, post here and lets engage in some serious discourse and shit!!!!! LOL LOL

:orely::orely::orely:




P.S. I see your points about redundancy and such and I can't really find any fault in your collective take on the novel. I suppose my feelings regarding connections to other novels helped me enjoy the book a little more. Having said that the interlude between Tim's inclusion in the story was very weird and disconcerting for sure. I also agree that there was wasted time spent in the daily life at the Institute. Character development was a little lacking, but not overly so as to diminish my enjoyment of the novel. I finished it in a little over a day whilst rehabbing from my recent surgery. Just my two cents I suppose.

[WeDealInLead]

Stephen King is like Metallica of books. We keep hoping for another book/record to once again blow our minds and remind us how truly untouchable he used to be, but it just isn't happening. Sure, there are still parts in every book I like but as a whole, they don't have the power they used have over me. Maybe my memory is faulty but I can't even remember the name of a single character from any of his books from the last ten years. This isn't a knock on the man, and also I'll premptively counter the "It's still better than most books out there," with a "You need to read better books."

Apologies to Merlin (I'm not being sarcastic) for this general commentary but I thought this thread would be fitting as The Institute is his latest work.

That said, I have read all of his books and will devour this one as soon as the time allows.

[sullichin]

Personal (and public I suppose) reviews are cool and stuff, but with all due respect "I" was hoping for more discussion about the story and any connection theories like I posted above. Don't mistake this post as discouraging any other discourse folks feel like sharing. By all means post away!! I was just hoping to encourage more discussion of the plot and so forth.

For some reason I can't seem to dispel thoughts of TDT and other novels connections to this story as I have posted above. I've actually started a re=read of "Black House" and will likely follow that with "Firestarter" culling connections to this book. It just seems to have struck a nerve with me I suppose. So, if anyone out there has entertained similar thoughts please, post here and lets engage in some serious discourse and shit!!!!! LOL LOL

:orely::orely::orely:




P.S. I see your points about redundancy and such and I can't really find any fault in your collective take on the novel. I suppose my feelings regarding connections to other novels helped me enjoy the book a little more. Having said that the interlude between Tim's inclusion in the story was very weird and disconcerting for sure. I also agree that there was wasted time spent in the daily life at the Institute. Character development was a little lacking, but not overly so as to diminish my enjoyment of the novel. I finished it in a little over a day whilst rehabbing from my recent surgery. Just my two cents I suppose.

I posted this elsewhere but the few Insomnia references ("Exalted and Revered", the Dr. Seuss book) had me thinking about possible connections:

Maybe the Institute is a precursor of sorts to the breakers, or the same basic idea but here it's just humans (on one level of the tower) playing god and not really knowing everything about the Precogs. The leaders in the Institute are brainwashed by the idea that the horrible things they're doing serves a higher purpose that makes it worth it. I think it's likely that The Institute serves a higher power, but that power isn't a force of good. It's a power that convinced the entire world to murder their most powerful/special children under the guise of some false paranoia. That reminds me a lot Ed Deepneau in Insomnia...

[WeDealInLead]

This was okay but I would've liked it more had King trimmed, oh say, 200 pages off. Tim's back story was a little redundant - one could easily skip everything right up to Luke's first chapter. There was nothing really special about Tim, he was just another cliche of a down-on-his-luck cop. The story at the institute would've still played out the same and it could've been any random cop who helped stop the Institute hit squad. That said, the book was enjoyable and there were parts where Uncle Steve turned the mean way up. I've been missing that side of King.

The hand of God moment made total sense. King anounced it right on the first page then at least four more times throughout the book. It fit the story and what the kids could do.

I'd rate The Institute above Sleeping Beauties and The Outsider but below Elevation.

[CyberGhostface]

I’m a bit surprised at the lukewarm reception, I thought it was one of his best books in a while. Much better than The Outsider, Sleeping Beauties and the Bill Hodges trilogy at least.

[Merlin1958]

I’m a bit surprised at the lukewarm reception, I thought it was one of his best books in a while. Much better than The Outsider, Sleeping Beauties and the Bill Hodges trilogy at least.

I agree with your first statement, but I very much enjoyed the Hodges trilogy a little above this one and the Outsider would rank just below The institute.. Sleeping Beauties was crap IMHO and right down there with Lisey's story which still ranks as Kings worth. Elevation is in the same bracket as Lisey & SB again just mho

[craigobau]

I’m a bit surprised at the lukewarm reception, I thought it was one of his best books in a while. Much better than The Outsider, Sleeping Beauties and the Bill Hodges trilogy at least.

I agree with your first statement, but I very much enjoyed the Hodges trilogy a little above this one and the Outsider would rank just below The institute.. Sleeping Beauties was crap IMHO and right down there with Lisey's story which still ranks as Kings worth. Elevation is in the same bracket as Lisey & SB again just mho


I’m almost finished reading The Institute and unfortunately have found it very disappointing. As I think I read in another thread, it felt like reading another author’s attempt at trying to write an SK story.


Conversely, I really enjoyed Sleeping Beauties (and Lisey’s Story!). Different strokes.

[Hunchback Jack]

I finished The Institute last week, and generally really enjoyed it. I think the characters and world-building were top notch; what problems I had with it were mainly about the plot and lack of resolution beyond the immediate characters.

[Merlin1958]

..........................................what problems I had with it were mainly about the plot and lack of resolution beyond the immediate characters.

Such as??? (Pt. 2) And how so???

[Hunchback Jack]

Well, to get into major spoilers ...

... although the Institute we were aware of was destroyed, there's nothing to indicate that any of the other Institute "branches" aren't still snapping up kids and killing people based on the predictions of their supposedly clairvoyant people.

I was also rather disappointed that no one at the Institute got their comeuppance. I mean, sure, a bunch of them died, but so did a lot of the kids that Luke was trying to save. Not much of a victory for the good guys in this one.


HBJ

[Merlin1958]

Well, to get into major spoilers ...

... although the Institute we were aware of was destroyed, there's nothing to indicate that any of the other Institute "branches" aren't still snapping up kids and killing people based on the predictions of their supposedly clairvoyant people.

Hmmmm, it seemed pretty clear to me that ALL the global facilities were similarly destroyed/disabled as the facility destroyed by our heroes was able to be done for utilizing all their collective powers across the globe. It would seem logical thqt the other facilities were all destroyed and the inhabitants set free. That was my take on it anyway.

I was also rather disappointed that no one at the Institute got their comeuppance. I mean, sure, a bunch of them died, but so did a lot of the kids that Luke was trying to save. Not much of a victory for the good guys in this one.

A victory all around for the "good guys" and internationally to boot, IMHO anyway. I guess he could have described individual tortures and eventual deaths if you're that into those things, yeah. However, they met their fates in the end. Besides, if they did really "get into it" with select characters that would make them no better than their captors I suppose.

HBJ

Okay, so I responded in your spoiler

WB

[Hunchback Jack]

Well, to get into major spoilers ...

... although the Institute we were aware of was destroyed, there's nothing to indicate that any of the other Institute "branches" aren't still snapping up kids and killing people based on the predictions of their supposedly clairvoyant people.

Hmmmm, it seemed pretty clear to me that ALL the global facilities were similarly destroyed/disabled as the facility destroyed by our heroes was able to be done for utilizing all their collective powers across the globe. It would seem logical thqt the other facilities were all destroyed and the inhabitants set free. That was my take on it anyway.

If that's the case, then that's better at least. I don't recall mention of Avery and co returning the assistance that the other Institutes gave to them, though. And I got the impression form the Lisping Man that the future-tellers were still alive and well. Perhaps I should reread those sections, though

I was also rather disappointed that no one at the Institute got their comeuppance. I mean, sure, a bunch of them died, but so did a lot of the kids that Luke was trying to save. Not much of a victory for the good guys in this one.

A victory all around for the "good guys" and internationally to boot, IMHO anyway. I guess he could have described individual tortures and eventual deaths if you're that into those things, yeah. However, they met their fates in the end. Besides, if they did really "get into it" with select characters that would make them no better than their captors I suppose.

I didn't mean THAT kind of comeuppance. Just getting arrested and brought to justice would have been enough for me.


HBJ

Okay, so I responded in your spoiler

WB

Also responded in the spoiler.

HBJ

[Merlin1958]

Well, to get into major spoilers ...

... although the Institute we were aware of was destroyed, there's nothing to indicate that any of the other Institute "branches" aren't still snapping up kids and killing people based on the predictions of their supposedly clairvoyant people.

Hmmmm, it seemed pretty clear to me that ALL the global facilities were similarly destroyed/disabled as the facility destroyed by our heroes was able to be done for utilizing all their collective powers across the globe. It would seem logical thqt the other facilities were all destroyed and the inhabitants set free. That was my take on it anyway.

If that's the case, then that's better at least. I don't recall mention of Avery and co returning the assistance that the other Institutes gave to them, though. And I got the impression form the Lisping Man that the future-tellers were still alive and well. Perhaps I should reread those sections, though

I was also rather disappointed that no one at the Institute got their comeuppance. I mean, sure, a bunch of them died, but so did a lot of the kids that Luke was trying to save. Not much of a victory for the good guys in this one.

A victory all around for the "good guys" and internationally to boot, IMHO anyway. I guess he could have described individual tortures and eventual deaths if you're that into those things, yeah. However, they met their fates in the end. Besides, if they did really "get into it" with select characters that would make them no better than their captors I suppose.

I didn't mean THAT kind of comeuppance. Just getting arrested and brought to justice would have been enough for me.


HBJ

Okay, so I responded in your spoiler

WB

Also responded in the spoiler.

HBJ

Fair points indeed.With regard to issue (A) I just thought it was a logical next step, but maybe I assumed too much. As far as issue (B) Oh I see what you mean, but if that had happened perhaps the ensuing press and trials would have done more harm than good in the end? Just spitballing there.

WB


BTW, no need for spoiler tags here. The thread name bears "Spoilers Be Aware". Just FYI for the future, my friend!!

[Hunchback Jack]

Re: Spoilers. Fair enough. It was just such a massive ending spoiler that I thought I should be cautious, nonetheless. :)

HBJ

[Merlin1958]

Re: Spoilers. Fair enough. It was just such a massive ending spoiler that I thought I should be cautious, nonetheless. :)

HBJ

:thumbsup:

[Garrell]

Loved the book but I did want a little revenge/blood at the end.

[Merlin1958]

Loved the book but I did want a little revenge/blood at the end.

Well they did get an entire building dropped on everyone, but yeah I guess there could have been a little more graphic revenge for some key character's at the end.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

I finished the book yesterday.
I am lousy at detailed analyses, because I don't consider myself a critic, I am just a reader.
I liked the book a lot.
To nitpick, what I don't like are King's abbreviations, which to me sound silly, probably because I have never heard people use them. This doesn't mean people don't use them, it's just that I personally have never heard these terms used:

uni for uniform
caff for cafeteria
walkie instead of walkie talkie (this really bugs me, can't say why)
and so on and so forth

And a lot of King's dialog between characters just sounds phony to me. Do people really talk that way, with the 'high fives' and all that stuff? Not in my personal experience, which I admit, is limited. It seems these are more movie and TV cliches than real life. I think that's why The PASSAGE trilogy resonated so well with me, the conversations between the characters seemed real, like normal people in extraordinary situations would actually talk and interact with each other. The same goes for 95% of Richard Matheson's work.

Just my 2 cents worth, which probably is not even worth a quarter cent. Give me a high five!

[Roseannebarr]

I finished the book yesterday.
I am lousy at detailed analyses, because I don't consider myself a critic, I am just a reader.
I liked the book a lot.
To nitpick, what I don't like are King's abbreviations, which to me sound silly, probably because I have never heard people use them. This doesn't mean people don't use them, it's just that I personally have never heard these terms used:

uni for uniform
caff for cafeteria
walkie instead of walkie talkie (this really bugs me, can't say why)
and so on and so forth

And a lot of King's dialog between characters just sounds phony to me. Do people really talk that way, with the 'high fives' and all that stuff? Not in my personal experience, which I admit, is limited. It seems these are more movie and TV cliches than real life. I think that's why The PASSAGE trilogy resonated so well with me, the conversations between the characters seemed real, like normal people in extraordinary situations would actually talk and interact with each other. The same goes for 95% of Richard Matheson's work.

Just my 2 cents worth, which probably is not even worth a quarter cent. Give me a high five!

High five! Oops too slow! Gotta go!

[RichardX]

I finished the book yesterday.
I am lousy at detailed analyses, because I don't consider myself a critic, I am just a reader.
I liked the book a lot.
To nitpick, what I don't like are King's abbreviations, which to me sound silly, probably because I have never heard people use them. This doesn't mean people don't use them, it's just that I personally have never heard these terms used:

uni for uniform
caff for cafeteria
walkie instead of walkie talkie (this really bugs me, can't say why)
and so on and so forth

And a lot of King's dialog between characters just sounds phony to me. Do people really talk that way, with the 'high fives' and all that stuff? Not in my personal experience, which I admit, is limited. It seems these are more movie and TV cliches than real life. I think that's why The PASSAGE trilogy resonated so well with me, the conversations between the characters seemed real, like normal people in extraordinary situations would actually talk and interact with each other. The same goes for 95% of Richard Matheson's work.

Just my 2 cents worth, which probably is not even worth a quarter cent. Give me a high five!

My guess is that because of King's success he has mostly led a sheltered existence for the past couple of decades that limits his contact with regular people. He is also an older guy who has certain stereotypes. His black characters, for example, are like something out of The Jeffersons. Some of this still works in book form but is downright embarrassing in movies. It is not how real people talk or act but in a book those kinds of simple stereotypes are effective - when not overly annoying - at character development for the reader as they play into behaviors that the masses can easily process.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Yup, that sounds about right!

I fell right on my face trying to return that high five, by the way! Like, ouch!

[M_O_O_N]

...it's just that I personally have never heard these terms used:
uni for uniform
caff for cafeteria
walkie instead of walkie talkie (this really bugs me, can't say why)
and so on and so forth


Don't dis da man on the walkie. They will hear it.

[Picklemaniac]

I finished the book 2 days after it came in, most in one sitting. I really liked it!

But one thing I noticed in this story was that Stephen King still thinks it's the 50's. I mean, even if it's just a nightknocker job, it should pay more than 100$ a week. And I agree with Garrel, I would have also loved to see some more revenge near the end.

The book didn't disappoint me or anything, but I was secretly hoping for some more Dark Tower references, I know there are a few here and there, but when I originally read the description, I thought this would be some sort of first experiment for the breakers.

[CyberGhostface]

One thing I didn't really get was how cruel the Institute was. Even taking into consideration that the children ultimately dying was inevitable, their general mindset was that the children were heroes sacrificing themselves for the greater good. So why not make the place more like Blue Heaven (which had far less benevolent intentions) which was a prison but more relaxed?

[M_O_O_N]

...The book didn't disappoint me or anything, but I was secretly hoping for some more Dark Tower references, I know there are a few here and there, but when I originally read the description...


I find that SK leaves a few breadcrumbs for us to follow, if we so wish, in his books (ie. DT, books, authors, music) without ever dumping the whole bag on us at one time as some authors do occasionally.

[Hunchback Jack]

One thing I didn't really get was how cruel the Institute was. Even taking into consideration that the children ultimately dying was inevitable, their general mindset was that the children were heroes sacrificing themselves for the greater good. So why not make the place more like Blue Heaven (which had far less benevolent intentions) which was a prison but more relaxed?

I think the general mindset was that the children were a resource to be used until they ran dry, at which point they were discarded.

The children weren't there by choice, did not submit to the tests by choice, and ultimately didn't fulfill the Institute's purpose for them by choice. The difference between Blue Heaven and the Institute was that the administrators of the latter didn't feel the need to even try to gain the children's consent; rather, they dehumanized the children so that, in their minds, consent wasn't needed.

HBJ

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

If they were treated like national treasures, the book would have been insufferably boring. Without conflict, there is no story, and therefore, no interest in reading further...to see what happens next!
And to find out what the sweet, sweet revenge will be, served cold, hot, or lukewarm as the case may be.

[CyberGhostface]

Well you'd still have kids being kidnapped with their parents murdered plus the mystery of where the other kids are being taken to and what ultimate purpose the Institute has for them. The conflict would still be there.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Yes, that's true.

[Picklemaniac]

I mean, I get the parent killings and the slapping of kids (because some kids are resistant as hell) but the cruelness in the back half was so weird.

[CyberGhostface]

His black characters, for example, are like something out of The Jeffersons. Some of this still works in book form but is downright embarrassing in movies. It is not how real people talk or act but in a book those kinds of simple stereotypes are effective - when not overly annoying - at character development for the reader as they play into behaviors that the masses can easily process.

How was Kalisha (from the Institute) a stereotype?

King struggled writing black characters early on in the beginning of his career but he has been upfront about that which is more than most old white men can say about it.

[St. Troy]

Finally got around to reading this last month.

As for tie-ins to other works, I prefer his novels be stand-alone, unless there's a genuine reason for it.

Some responses inside the spoiler tags:


I do have a couple of comments, and will put it in spoilers (even though the thread is marked spoiler alert!) that are discussion points, but trying not make them look like criticisms too much.

3 - What I call 'The Hand of God' moment, which Mr King often uses in his stories. ie the corny moment in the story that takes me out of it totally, and makes me go wtf! In this case the floating building!! Shit man! Either King seriously cannot finish a story, or he does it on purpose now! Personally I do think he can finish his stories really well, but there are a few that have slightly exaggerated endings.

I know what you mean by "Hand of God" moment, but anything sufficiently explained doesn't strike me as being one, and a building full of psychically amped children focused on destruction works for me as an explanation of a building temporarily lifting off the ground.

4 - As a kid, my drama teacher used to hate it when he asked the kids to create an improv play, and they ultimately ended in scenes that degenerated into mass shoot outs, ie the kids resorted to running around shooting everything in sight with no further plot! This was done twice here near the end, one at the copshop, and at the institute.

This is what violent confrontations involving armed groups look like; the people had guns, simple as that.


None of the characters in the book resonated. That was most surprising because character development is King's usual strength.

Overall I liked The Institute, but I agree with this.


One thing I didn't really get was how cruel the Institute was. Even taking into consideration that the children ultimately dying was inevitable, their general mindset was that the children were heroes sacrificing themselves for the greater good.

Although that picture (heroes) was painted, I don't for a minute believe that anyone working at the Institute viewed the children that way; they viewed them as tools, weapons, batteries - anything but fellow humans.

[Jean]

I mean, I get the parent killings and the slapping of kids (because some kids are resistant as hell) but the cruelness in the back half was so weird.
That was exactly what I found so relentlessly and horrifyingly true. History, alas, proves it: when some people have absolute power over other people, it necessarily brings about the worst in them. In nazi camps they didn't have to be cruel to their material, either. This attitude is a function of a) absolute power; b) establishment (the whole institute, its purpose, its methods) that by a person brought up in a largely humanistic society has to be perceived as deeply wrong, thus bringing about an inner conflict. The conflict can be resolved by either dropping out of the system, or, in case of staying there, of accelerating and exaggerating what one did previously. The guiltier you feel, the harder you get, and the tougher - the crueller - the less human - you are, the less access this guilt has to your consciousness.

I loved the novel. The only problem I had with it was that the last part was not really written, but rather plotted; reading it was like looking through a synopsis, or jotted notes for another couple of volumes. I wish these volumes had been written instead.