My EX best friend strikes again.....

[Nerak]

This is probably going to be the toughest thing that I have ever had to say, so it's going to be said this way to be able to tell everyone at the same time and to ask for your support.

Bill and I have been having some testing done on the baby. Usually routine testing due to my age, but the baby came back as a high risk for Downs Syndrome and something called Trisomy 18. This was told to us at our 12 week ultrasound.

On the 19th, we had another ultrasound (usual 18 week check) and the doctor noticed something that didn't look right and she recommended an amniocentesis. We had the amnio done at that time and got the results back last week.

Our precious little girl has been diagnosed with Trisomy 18. For a brief summary, it's a very BAD thing. 90% of babies don't survive until full term, of the 10% that do, 90% don't live through their first year and most don't make it past 2 - 3 months. They are profoundly mentally retarded and have a host of medical problems and physical deformities.

Bill and I have decided that it would be the best thing for our little girl to not have to suffer and we are going to be delivering her as soon as the hospital can arrange it and sending her back to God.

At this time, we would like to ask for your prayers for strength and guidance.

Please, keep us and baby Rosemary in your thoughts and prayers.

Love,
Bill and Karen

[Matt]

Oh Karen, I don't know what to say...:(

I am so very sorry this is happening to you guys, if you need anything at all please don't hesitate to contact me.

Our prayers are with all of you as well.

[Randall Flagg]

Karen, I am deeply sorry to hear of these terrible complications.
My thoughts and hope are with you and your family.

Jerome

[jayson]

Karen, you and your family will be in my thoughts. I'm very sorry you have to endure such trying times.

[sarah]

My thoughts and prayers are with your family.

be well and know that you have all the support of the board if you need anything.

[John Blaze]

Nerak, I am so profoundly sorry for you guys.

I know this decision has been extremely hard, and it's probably harder because it just doesn't seem fair. It's not fair.

My prayers are with you and yours, and I wish you the best.

[carlosdetweiller]

Karen,
I am so sorry to hear about your baby. I will keep you and Bill in my thoughts and prayers.
Bob

[Letti]

You can count on us. We will pray for you and for your loved ones.

[Nerak]

Thanks everyone.

I just wanted to let me "other family" know what was going on.

It's been very hard to think lately and just reading the boards is next to impossible.

So, bear with me whilst I find my mind again and keep me in your pockets!

Karen (and Bill and Rosemary)

[Brice]

Karen, you and your family are in my thoughts.

[Rjeso]

Oh, my God... I'm so sorry, Karen. I wish there were a way to make it all better. I can't even begin to imagine what this must be like to have to go through, but you always struck me as a strong spirit. I'll be keeping you and yours in my thoughts. Take care.

-Laura

[mia/susannah]

Karen

I am sorry to hear about what you, your husband and precious rosemary are going through. I have been through the same experience except my daughter was diagnosed with Congestive Diaphramatic Hernia with additional abnormalities when I was 4 months pregnant with her. I do understand what your going through. My daughter died 16 hours after birth.

My family and I will keep all of you in our prayers. And if you ever want to talk about it, I know it will take time, but please feel free to pm me when and if you are ready to talk. :grouphug:

[Fsmdr]

That is really sad news. You and Bill are in my thoughts in this difficult time.

[tamez]

I'm sorry Karen.
I love you.

[wizardsrainbow]

Dear Karen-

You have my love and sympathies for your entire family. I know you will make the right decisions as far as your family goes.

Be strong Karen.

Always,

David

[Storyslinger]

I am so sorry to hear this. I hope you are able to get through this and know that you and your family will be in my prayers. I hope every thing works out for the best.

Again, I wish you strength, and your in my prayers.

Brian

[jhanic]

Karen, you and yours are in my prayers. Be strong!

John

[Hannah]

I'm so sorry Karen. I can't even imagine what you are going through right now.

I'm going to be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. Please let me know if there is anything at all that I can do for you.

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

Deepest sympathy. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

[Ari_Racing]

Karen, you and Bill and the little girl are in my prayers.

This is the moment to be strong...even when it seems impossible. :(

[Daghain]

Karen, I'm so sorry to hear that.

Your whole family is in my pocket. :grouphug:

[CRinVA]

Karen,

I am so sorry to hear this news. No one should ever have to go through this. You have demonstrated a great abmount of mental courage just letting us know. No amount of words can ease your pain, but know that we all love you here on the darktower.com and perhaps our thoughts and prayers and kind words can help to ease your pain.

God Bless,
Bob

[super sam]

I´m sorry to hear this.:(
You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. :grouphug:

[Jorge]

My God, what an absolutely awful thing to have to go through. I don't pray often, but I most assuredly will for you and your family.

[HanzouNorak]

I offer my condolences,
your with my thoughts

[NeedfulKings]

:(

Our thoughts and prayers are with you, Karen. I'm very sorry to hear this news.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Bill, Karen, Rosemary))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[shnnrc01]

karen,very sorry to hear of your troubles.my wife and I lost our first child and times certainly werent easy.life can be a real bitch sometimes.we have 2 healthy girls now with another due this year with Gods help.just be strong and life can and will get better.

[Calla_Wolf]

My love to all of you.

Rosemary is a lovely name.

Be safe.

Ceri

[ATG]

My sympathies.

[Erin]

Karen I'm so sorry to hear this terrible news. You and your husband are in my thoughts.

[Patrick]

Karen, I am so sorry to hear this. Prayers of strength and comfort to you and Bill. Bless her little soul.
- Patrick

[Scoogs]

Karen, I really don't have the words. Just know that my thoughts and prayers are with your family.

[Ruthful]

How dreadful.

One of my friends was expecting twins before his wife experienced a miscarriage.

Thankfully, they were able to have healthy children after a successful pregnancy shortly thereafter.

I just hope this child doesn't suffer needlessly.

Good luck to you and your family in this trying time, Karen.

Godspeed, G.

[Jean]

praying for Rosemary :rose: :rose: :rose:

[Nerak]

Thanks everyone!

It means a lot from all of you!

We are going to be going in on Thursday to delivery her.

I am just functioning right now.

We told the kids last night and they are devistated. I need to stay strong for them right now. I don't have any other choice. My pain will work itself out in due time.

I probably won't be back on here at least until Friday. I have to come back to work to feed the cats but the next two days are going to be busy. And I have to plan a funeral.

On top of it all, my best friend, who said she would stand by me no matter what is not happy with the decision that we made, and that just adds more pain on top of it all. She won't even talk to me. So now I've lost two people that I love!

LIFE SUCKS!!!

Karen

[CRinVA]

Karen,

If she is your best friend she'll be back! You are the one that has had to make the choices and I am sure you didn't just jump the gun, but made the right choice for the situation.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Karen & Family}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[jhanic]

I agree with Bob. She'll be back if she's a true friend.

Your and yours are in my prayers, Karen.

John

[Odetta]

PLease take care of yourselves!

[Rjeso]

Perhaps you should show your best friend some informational websites about the disease. That should help her understand that you have made the right decision, as difficult as it was. You have kept the well-being of Rosemary foremost in your hearts and minds, and your friend will see that once she understands the disease, I am sure.

[Cutter]

Wow, I am very saddened to hear this Karen. I agree with others and hopefully you can stay strong through this difficult time. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

[Calla_Wolf]

Karen

Since reading your original post these words have flitted in and out of my mind. I wanted to share.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Blameless, without fault,
her spirit shines in darkness,
without corruption.

Oblivious she sleeps
as we mourn her innocence.
God's child, Rosemary.

[wizardsrainbow]

Ceri-

That's just simply too beautiful.
Thank you.

[herbertwest]

Really really sorry for that...

[Darkthoughts]

Karen - you, Rosemary and your family are very much in my thoughts right now. Much love to you all.
I'm sad that your friend feels unable to put aside her opinions at this time - I think Rjeso made a good point, she probably needs to better understand the situation Rosemary is in to appreciate the decision you have had to make.

Keep strong, we are all here for you.

Lisa.

[Woofer]

:rose:
*wolfhugs and comfort vibes*

I know you don't know me because I'm new to the site, but I want to send good thoughts and support to you and your family at this very difficult time.

I'm also very sorry (and angry) to hear about your friend's reaction and hope my vibes extend to helping with that pain as well.

Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who was adopted, I commend you and your husband for having the courage to do what is best for Rosemary - particularly when the decision is so painful.

*wolfhugs and comfort vibes*

~Woofer, Mr. Woofer, and the Clowder

[Jean]

more goodmind to Karen

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/roses_many.jpg

[ManOfWesternesse]

*Goodmind* to you and yours Karen, and especially to Rosemary.

You were faced with a terribly difficult decision, and made the right choice. If your friend was a close as you seem to think then she will come to know that and will be back.

[Airtraffic]

I am so Sorry.

[Rjeso]

My well wishes go with you tomorrow, Karen. Please let us know how you are doing, okay? Take care.

[jhanic]

Yes, please let us know how you're doing. You are loved here!

John

[NeedfulKings]

We're sending our thoughts your way for tomorrow. As has been said before, your friend may just be uninformed and will always be on the outside looking in. You've made your decision and it's the right one. If she's you're friend, I hope she's there when you get home.

Please come back when you're ready. We're here. Always here.

Bill

[Chooch]

OMG...I just read the post (i am new here) and my heartfelt sympothy goes out to you !! May God's love & Light shine upon you in this very dark and troubled time. Blessings & Light

-Chooch

[Patrick]

Hi Karen,
You're still on my mind and in my pocket.
- Patrick

[jemaher]

Karen,

First, my deepest sympathies for you and your family. May you quickly begin the long process of healing from this unfortunate loss. You are incredibly strong to share such a personal tragedy. In my career, I have dealt with over 100 cases of t18 and I think your decision is the right one. There is no good that I have seen in prolonging the agony by delaying the inevitable. Second, do not let the ignorance of your "friend" make an already painful situation more difficult. May she never have to deal with the painful reality which you are currently facing. Please let us know how we can help.

[wizardsrainbow]

Karen-

Sending you strength and support on what may be the most difficult day of your life today. Love you girl.

David

[Matt]

The sites marquee banner is dedicated to you today Karen, I hope all is as well as it can be and we are thinking about you.

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

Just incase you miss it Karen, the banner says:

TheDarkTower.com community holds Nerak in its pocket today. We should all take a moment to send our love to her and her family on this very difficult day. We love you Karen!!

[alinda]

Karen,

My thought's and prayers are yours,
I am sorry that life has given you
this. Your courage, and LOVE is
very evident....Blessings and all
our LOVE are with you now and
anytime you need them. L.

[Heather19]

Karen,
I'm so sorry. My prayers are with you and your family during this difficult time.

[Dolan]

Oh Christ Karen...

I have to confess - I came on here to give you a tongue lashing to ask where my Girl Scout Cookies where, and I come to find this. Shame on me for being so selfish.

I love you dearly and know that I will be thinking of you every day.

[Bethany]

karen & family--
i've had your entire family in my pockets and prayers since last week. i am so sorry that this has happened. even though it may not seem like it right now, i am positive that the 'tude and tiggerness that i love so much about you will help you through this. i hope you know what it means when i tell you that i fully understand and support your decision.

bethany

[midnightrambler34]

You have my best wishes for you and your family. Keep the faith.

[Nerak]

i am positive that the 'tude and tiggerness that i love so much about you will help you through this.

I went through this entire thread crying over the thoughtfulness of you all and the depth of caring...and then I read this and I laughed out loud.

Thank you all.

It was indeed a very trying, difficult day.

I want to send a thank you out to everyone for the peace lilly! I love peace Lilly's and still have the one that I got when my father passed away in 2001.

Rosemary is at peace now. The children are more understanding as to what is going on. Our beautiful little boy has been a saving grace to us as you cannot help but smile when you look at him.

We are trying to plan her funeral for Tuesday. Money is always a pain in the ass!!!! The funeral parol will donate their services, but we have to pay the cemetary and minister and newspaper announcements. To the tune of between $1800 - $2700 depending on what size plot we want to purchase! UGH!! Now, where to find that money!!!

Anyway, I am rambling!

Kenny, I have your cookies and will be mailing them out to you next week. I don't remember how many boxes you ordered, so I can't tell you what you owe me. I will next week...fear not, I haven't forgotten about you!

Love and hugs!

Karen and family!

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

Rosemary:

I stood watching as a little ship sailed out to sea. The setting sun tinted her sails with a golden light. Smaller and smaller she became as she drew nearer to the horizen and then, as she disappeared from sight, a voice at my side whispered "She is gone".

But the sea was a narrow one. On the further shore, a little band of friends had gathered to watch and wait in happy expectation. Suddenly they caught sight of the tiny sail and at the very moment when my companion whispered "She is gone", a glad shout went up in joyous welcome "Here she comes!"

[carlosdetweiller]

Karen,
I can't say anything as beautiful as Mr. Rabbit Trick but I do wish you and your family all the best and am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

And Mr. Rabbit Trick, I am normally not an overly sentimental or emotional person but those words moved me deeply for some reason and I am very glad you posted them.

Bob

[Nerak]

Rosemary:

I stood watching as a little ship sailed out to sea. The setting sun tinted her sails with a golden light. Smaller and smaller she became as she drew nearer to the horizen and then, as she disappeared from sight, a voice at my side whispered "She is gone".

But the sea was a narrow one. On the further shore, a little band of friends had gathered to watch and wait in happy expectation. Suddenly they caught sight of the tiny sail and at the very moment when my companion whispered "She is gone", a glad shout went up in joyous welcome "Here she comes!"


Thank you :cry:

[Dolan]

i am positive that the 'tude and tiggerness that i love so much about you will help you through this.

Kenny, I have your cookies and will be mailing them out to you next week. I don't remember how many boxes you ordered, so I can't tell you what you owe me. I will next week...fear not, I haven't forgotten about you!



Hunny - please NO rush on this! I totally want you to take care and be with your family. Even if that is just 5 minutes to go to the post office. There is no rush on me getting fatter - really.

I cannot explain how far reaching my sympathy goes to you and your family. I love you dearly.

[Nerak]

Love you right back!! :wub:

[wizardsrainbow]

Huggles to Karen :huglove:

[Nerak]

Huggles back

Everything went as well as can be expected.

She has been laid to rest. The cemetary found a plot closer too my parents, which was pretty cool.

Now, the hard part, getting back to everyday life....

[LadyHitchhiker]

Do you need anything, Nerak? Human Food? Cat food? Dog food? Gerbil food? etc.,.?

Why I ask:

One of the nicest things anyone did for me was bring cat food after our daughter died. I couldn't think about that kind of thing.. you know, even fending for the little ones left. I would have ended up running out of cat food without them, then cried that I would do that to my furry babies and then ended up trying to figure out how to put my pants on then how to drive... and how to, etc., Figuring out how pants worked took me a while after losing her. The simplest things in the world....

I grieve with thee.

[Nerak]

Thank you, really, the only thing I need right now is to remember how to function. I have the three other kids at home, along with two cats, so I know that I have to function for them. Makes it easier to do it, if that makes any sense.

I appreciate the offer, it's very kind of you.

We actually bought cat food last week..LOL

Again, thank you everyone...it's going to be a long road, but hopefully with the kids and hubby keeping me sane, it will help me better deal with it. Hubby goes back to work today for the first time in a week and I am grieving just knowing that he's not going to be home tonight :(.

Ugh...life...it's what happens when you aren't looking...

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Messages/bearhug.gif

[Nerak]

Thanks :)

[LadyHitchhiker]

If you need to talk, I'm here, Karen... I know what it's like to lose a daughter...

[Nerak]

thank you

Having a bad day today. I am glad that the older two of my kids are heading to their father's tonight...give me a little bit of peace and room to grieve, since the 8 mth old doesn't understand what I am doing...

[Jon]

Karen..I am here for you!

If you remember me.

[Nerak]

Karen..I am here for you!

If you remember me.

Sheep lover??????? :excited: LOL

[Dolan]

I think we should declare March 14th "We Love Karen Day."

[Nerak]

I think we should declare March 14th "We Love Karen Day."


but but but

You can Love me every day!!!! :wub:

[jemaher]

And we do!

[Dolan]

We sure do. I know I do...

[Nerak]

awww shuckles.... LOL

Kenny, mailing your cookies today

[Nerak]

Guess my best friend isn't going to come around, here is the email that she sent to me..

Karen,

I did not want to send this at this point. I was planning on laying low for awhile to let emotions heal. But you deserve an answer to your question.

I don't know how to feel about our friendship at this point.

We've known each other a long time, and in that time, I'd like to say that we've had our fair share of good moments. But, I also know that there have been moments that I've wanted to simply walk away. There have been times you have done just that.

I am very sorry you had to go through what you did with Rosemary. As your friend, I would've liked to have been there to support you through a difficult time. But I couldn't bring myself to be there because I don't agree with how you handled it.

I need to get this off my chest, if for no other reason than to lift this huge weight of emotion I've been feeling.

You are right. I do think you killed your baby. I have been bothered by a lot of things I've heard you say throughout the pregnancy and how cold and clinical you made the whole thing. When I talked with you, there was absolutely no emotion on your part. You mentioned that you have three "healthy children" that you need to consider, which tells me in your mind, you had already written her off as defective. So she wasn't perfect, and she may not have even survived the birthing process, but don't you think she at least deserved a chance?

I wish I could just let it go, but I cannot. I want to express sympathy toward you, but the fact of what happened gets in the way. It was a decision you and Billy had to make and you guys need to deal with it. It should not matter to you how anyone else feels about it. I don't agree with your decision, and that is something that I will have to deal with. I just keep comparing how I would have dealt with everything and get far different answers.

Reflecting back on our relationship, there have been many times I felt something was lacking. I can recall on many occasions where I've gone out of my way to make sure that your needs and feelings were taken into consideration, even if it meant I was not as happy about it. When I plan something, I put the concerns of everyone else before mine. It's who I am. I care about people. However, when you plan something, or do something for me, it's all about you and your kids, and your feelings. You constantly think about how something affects you before you think about anyone else.

Remember when you first sent me the pictures of the ultrasound of Josiah? Did you even stop to think how someone who had NEVER been able to get pregnant might feel looking at something like that? Did you even stop to think that maybe you could've put some kind of message in the email to let me know what it was? No, instead, you fired it off thinking about how good it made you feel to share that.

When you wanted the wedding cameras so you could plan your gift, that went out of control. When I asked for your pictures of the baby shower, you sent me to a link that I could buy them. These overall, are little things, but it is consistent little things that I end up feeling badly about.

When I invite you over and prefer you don't come because your kids are sick, you make me feel like I am somehow doing something wrong by not wanting Genarose to be exposed to germs she does not need to be exposed to.

I want a friend to respect me and treat me the way I've treated you and everyone else my life. Is that too much to ask?

Again, I don't know how to feel about our friendship at this point.

We are not same people we were 20 years ago. I don't hate you, but I don't have this overwhelming to rush and be by your side either. I need some time to sort out how I feel and whether this is the end of our friendship or just another bump in the road.

Gina


And my reply to her.....

I, we, DID NOT KILL OUR BABY. We spared her from suffering. You read the web sites where these babies lived hours- days- months, but at what cost? In what pain? What quality of life? I could not ever imagine putting my daughter through that suffering. And yes, I know, we did not know the severity of her defects, but we saw the outward ones and we knew that there would be inward ones as well, but we spared her tiny body and ourselves from an autopsy.

When I talked to you about her being "clinical" as my defense mechinism. Did you want to talk to a blubbering idiot? I am sorry if I put on a brave face for you. That's just me. And yes, I did have my other children to think about. Their feeling, their lives, how it would affect them. And we decided it was better for all this way.

I am sorry that you can't let it go. I guess it will be your burden to bear. Mine is the loss of a daughter that I will never watch grow up. Who's hair I will never to to braid, who's pictures I will never get to put on my wall, who's children will never call me Grammy.
Sorry to burden you....

And man oh man, when you let it out, you let it out.

I didn't realize that I was such a jackass of a friend, So happy to know that it took MY personal tragedy for you to let me know.
So not only am I a bad mother, but friend as well.

And yes, I thought sharing the joy of my pregnancy with my best friend was a good thing.

I am truly sorry that it took you 12 years to have a baby. But it wouldn't have had you not been so stubborn and pig headed and done the AI long ago instead of feeling like a failure. No one is a failure because of that, your body let you down, you didn't FAIL at anything.

I am sorry for everything I ever did to hurt you.

But you made up for all of those situations plus some by kicking me now.

When you decide if I am Gina worthy, let me know. I may still be around, but right now, I am hurt, devastated, and bruised by you.

Me

[Brice]

Karen, I am really just so stunned by your friend that I really don't know what to say.


We love you!

[Nerak]

Just a note, we have been best friends since Sept 1985!! That's a lot of years...

Thanks Brice...:wub:

[Jean]

Karen, I am really just so stunned by your friend that I really don't know what to say.


We love you!

I have a lot to say. But, since you, Karen, may still have some good feeling for that female motherfucker, I'd rather not say it.

You made things "cold and clinical"? Is she one of those people who would "forgive" (as if there was anything to forgive!) if you had been hysterical, broken, all snot and bawling? Shit, everything else she said uncovers such a manipulative, emotional-vampiring bitch... (I am sorry, I wasn't goint to say it, but here it is.)

Love you!

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Messages/thbearhug-1-1.gif

[Daghain]

Wow, you got Jean all fired up! I totally agree with him, though. :)

[Odetta]

You know,
I don't know you or your 'friend' at all but it seems to me if anyone is being selfish, it would be her, not you. Her whole email was about how SHE felt... not really about you. How SHE interpreted all the things you have done. That, to me, is a sign that she is very insecure... that she would complain about all those other things to you at this particular time shows a childish and immature behavior.
I don't think you need to defend yourself to someone talking to you this way, and to write those things in an email rather than talking to you directly is also very childish. But DON'T defend yourself... you don't need to. You and your family made the decision that you did and NO ONE can tell you that it was the wrong choice.
People do what they need to to survive in this world. I'm sure your 'friend' hasn't stopped to think about how a severely high needs child would impact your other children. Not to mention how the death of that child had she been born would affect your kids... You made an extremely important decision based on facts, not on emotion. Isn't that what one is supposed to do?

[Hannah]

Karen, I used to work with a woman who told me she didn't want me to talk to her while I was pregnant because she hadn't been able to have kids. People like that are selfish.

Regardless of how your friend feels about the decision that you made, she should have taken your feelings into consideration before she threw up her opinion all over you. And while she knows you're going through a tough time emotionally yet she burdens you with even more emotional stress about your friendship. This is the time when she should put all her shit aside and be there for you. A real friend would do that.

[Erin]

Exactly what Hannah said.

I couldn't believe what I was reading. She is selfish and is not thinking of you at all during this difficult time.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.

[jayson]

I don't know that I can do more than echo what has already been said quite well above, but I do think that it's important to know that those sentiments are agreed with. Your actions have been the exact opposite of selfish. I'm sorry you have to deal with this from such a close friend at a time when you most need your friends' support. I know we don't know each other, but I keep you and your family in my thoughts as you go through this. :rose:

[CRinVA]

Karen,

The best way to deal with this is to not deal with it. Do not get pulled down the rabbit hole that your "friend' is trying to pull you. No one writes a letter (email) like that without a specific purpose in mind. If she wanted to piss you off then she succeeded! She was definitely hoping for a reaction and she got it. I think that if I had responded it would have been short and sweet - more like "I am sorry you feel that way" and let it go. But that is just me.

Like I said a while ago, if she is a real friend it will work out, if not, so bit it. It doesn't matter that she was your friend for more than 20 years - it really doesn't. What matters are those that you love and those that love you! We are all here on Planet Earth only a short time (relatively speaking) and we need to make the best of it. No one is perfect, except maybe that man that beared our cross two thousand years ago (if your, or anyone's beliefs are different just ignore this sentence). And if you do believe then I fully believe that you set Rosemary free. You took away her pain and suffering - what more can one expect a Mom to do! I am sure if you could have traded places with her you would have!

One last thing I'd like to say. We all make mistakes (to err is Human) - I believe your friend made a big one. Yes our beliefs are all different - that's what makes up the human race - but she chose to express hers in an ugly manner! She probably doesn't realize it now but someday she will. I wouldn't write her off just yet (to forgive is divine) - but then I wouldn't go out of my way to continue the conversation at this point in time. You have more important things to consider like taking care of your family!

Remember, you can always blow off steam here in Calvin's Corner; and have more than a handful of true friends that will let you cry on their shoulder if need be!

God Bless,
Bob

[Letti]

Even if she was right she shouldn't attack you now... now when you have so many things to deal with... to bear and survive. That's the most selfish thing she can do.
But the fact that she was able to attack you at this part of your life tells me everything about her.
Try to save the good memories (if it's possible) try to remember that girl you loved and she used to be and let this selfish and egotistic woman go.
Don't turn back.

[Cutter]

It should not matter to you how anyone else feels about it
This is quite an ironic statement considering she felt that she needed to state her own opinion. Regardless the email is filled with hate statements beyond Rosemary. To me it seems like she has problems of her own, and has for a long time. It's too bad that she has had to take her insecurities out on you Karen.

I obviously don't know the situation between you two, but from this one letter I would have to question why have this person as a friend?

[Aaron]

It sounds to me like she wrote the email to make herself feel better about how she dealt with it. I can't think of any other reason that she would so blatantly attack you as a friend and a person. She knows that the way she has behaved about this is wrong and not something that you would do to a friend, so she decided to indict your entire relationship with her so that she can rationalize her actions. (i.e. I've acted like a bitch, but she isn't a good person or a good friend anyway, so it's okay)

What a load of horseshit. Forgiveness may be divine, but she wouldn't be getting it from me while she still has breath in her lungs.

I'm so sorry that she did that to you. It's just so...wrong. :(

[Ikilledthecrimsonking]

Almighty and Everlasting God, preserver of souls, who dost correct those whom Thou dost love, and for their betterment dost tenderly chastise those whom Thou dost receive, we call upon Thee, O Lord, to grant Thy healing, that the soul of Thy servant, at the hour of its departure from the body, may by the hands of Thy holy Angels be presented without spot unto Thee. Amen.

[jhanic]

Karen, I've been trying all day to come up with words of comfort for you regarding your "friend's" missive, but I keep coming up short. There's no excuse for what she said, the way she said it or anything else. You are probably better off without her, now that she's shown her true colors.

I am a member of a fundamentalist Roman Catholic denomination, who, according to my church's doctrines, should also be condemning your action, but I CANNOT. You did what you deemed correct, and I fully back you up. I pray that I never would have to make such a decision, but I think you were correct in every way. I just hope I could show the courageousness that you have demonstrated.

John

[ManOfWesternesse]

......and let this selfish and egotistic woman go.Don't turn back.

Yes, I think that's it Karen really.
Let her go fully (drop her from your mind as well as your e-mail list).
If she ever makes a sincere effort to change that, then think about it.

[Nerak]

Thank you all. I have decided to just write her off as a good part of my life. I cannot possibly forgive her for this. I am, at least I try to be, a good person. I have my moments, just like everyone else.

But for her to attack me at a time when I am on the floor in pain, is just so very wrong and does prove to me that she really wasn't my friend.

I will have to deal with seeing her at other friends events, but I know that, given time, I will be able to either just ignore her or be the "polite, but I hate you" friend.

To tell you the level of frustration and aggravation she put me in, I went out and bought a pack of butts, the first in over 6 years. But I am going to throw them away now....I don't need them, I have hubby and you guys!!

You really are a wonderful group of friends :grouphug: I thank GOD for you all and your wisdom!

[Calla_Wolf]

Just spent 30 minutes reading since the last time I posted.

Karen - Rosemary's at peace, without pain. Your family is strong, as are you.

Everything outside that circle (including us here) is either an added bonus or unimportant.

Gina now lies in the dross of the unimportant. Let her go. When she resolves her bitterness, much of which I'm CERTAIN has nothing to do with you, she'll choose to either stay away or come back. In the meantime, your strength and love and attention is needed by yourself and your family. Don't waste breath and time on the unimportant.

[wizardsrainbow]

Just spent 30 minutes reading since the last time I posted.

Karen - Rosemary's at peace, without pain. Your family is strong, as are you.

Everything outside that circle (including us here) is either an added bonus or unimportant.

Gina now lies in the dross of the unimportant. Let her go. When she resolves her bitterness, much of which I'm CERTAIN has nothing to do with you, she'll choose to either stay away or come back. In the meantime, your strength and love and attention is needed by yourself and your family. Don't waste breath and time on the unimportant.

Great advice Ceri.

[Nerak]

The latest dribble... My stuff is black and her responses are in red...gotta love the shit...

Your response is pretty much what I have come to expect.
I was going to let it go, but at this point I believe we are past the point of bridges mending, so I will say my piece and we can be done. This way your scab can heal and you will not have to be bruised, kicked and devastated by me ever again.

I, we, DID NOT KILL OUR BABY. We spared her from suffering. You read the web sites where these babies lived hours- days- months, but at what cost? In what pain? What quality of life? I could not ever imagine putting my daughter through that suffering. And yes, I know, we did not know the severity of her defects, but we saw the outward ones and we knew that there would be inward ones as well, but we spared her tiny body and ourselves from an autopsy.

See, I cannot be honest with you. I was NOT going to have the conversation with you about my opinion on why Rosemary is dead, you brought it up and I just agreed that you were right, I do believe you killed her. And not that I have to, but I will tell you why I think that. Your pregnancy did not end. You TERMINATED it. The baby did not die naturally, she died as a result of the termination of your pregnancy. And who knows if she suffered or not?

When I talked to you about her being "clinical" as my defense mechinism. Did you want to talk to a blubbering idiot? I am sorry if I put on a brave face for you. That's just me. And yes, I did have my other children to think about. Their feeling, their lives, how it would affect them. And we decided it was better for all this way.

Talking to a blubbering idiot would've been the completely normal, expected response in a situation like this. To not be raises questions about your true feelings about the whole issue. What are you shielding me from? As your friend, I would completely understand how you feel and expect you to be emotional, not cold and clinical, about the whole issue.

I am sorry that you can't let it go. I guess it will be your burden to bear. Mine is the loss of a daughter that I will never watch grop up. Who's hair I will never to to braid, who's pictures I will never get to put on my wall, who's children will never call me Grammy.
Sorry to burden you....

Not buying into this sentiment now because you're trying to prove a point and make me feel bad for telling you how I feel. Where was all of this emotion before? What I meant was that I cannot just forget how I feel and chat with you about mundane things. This unfortunate situation is yours, not mine. I have no burden.

And man oh man, when you let it out, you let it out.

I didn't realize that I was such a jackass of a friend, So happy to know that it took MY personal tragedy for you to let me know.
So not only am I a bad mother, but friend as well.

And you don't think I had a right to? I've not said one word to you in 20 years about how you've treated me. Trust me, I was holding back. You have many times, prided yourself on your bitchiness. I don't know if you care who you unleash it on or when.
Your personal tragedy was only a small part of the equation. More importantly, it was your selfish behavior over the years that led to this. It's like a dam that's been eroding for many years. If someone throws a rock at the dam one day, and it busts, is it the person who threw the rock, or the underlying erosion that's the problem?

And yes, I thought sharing the joy of my pregnancy with my best friend was a good thing.

I am truly sorry that it took you 12 years to have a baby. But it wouldn't have had you not been so stubborn and pig headed and done the AI long ago instead of feeling like a failure. No one is a failure because of that, your body let you down, you didn't FAIL at anything.

Have you even bothered to look at the cost of an IVF? Last time I looked, it's close to $20,000.00 - Do you have $20,000.00 lying around that I can borrow the next time I have no insurance? Did you have it 12 years ago?

Not that I need to justify anything to you, but I did make a concerted effort, when I could afford to do so, to go and figure out why I couldn't pregnant. I didn't sit on the couch and wallow in self-misery and consider myself a failure and do absolutely nothing. Don't you think all the stress in my life played a part? What difference would it had made had I done IVF then and it failed due to the other issues that were going on? You have no idea why it worked now and whether it would have worked then.
And you knew how I felt about my situation, and yet still decided to send the pictures anyways? If you truly were concerned about how I was feeling (think about this a second) would you have sent them without any notification as to what they are or asked me how I felt about it before doing so? No, just slap me in the face with your fertility, just like you have done in the past.

I am sorry for everything I ever did to hurt you.

No you are not. This is a catty response and a a lame attempt at being melodramatic. You didn't realize there was a problem because I never bothered to say anything. If anyone is to blame for that, it's me. I'll accept that. And if you're thinking you are truly sorry, that implies you knew how you were treating me the whole time, and continued to do so anyways, which would imply a maliciousness on your part.

But you made up for all of those situations plus some by kicking me now.
When you decide if I am Gina worthy, let me know. I may still be around, but right now, I am hurt, devastated, and bruised by you.

Again, not buying the melodramatic stuff.

I'm a good person and I treat people the way I would want to be treated. For years, people have asked why I'm friends with you. They could clearly see the way you treated me and others, and would walk away scratching their heads. They saw it, I didn't.

And for the record, no reply is necessary. I've said my piece and you've said yours.



My reply....


I am sorry that you have been "burdened" by our
friendship. (catty)

I am truly sorry that it took the death of my daughter
to bring out the bitch in you.

Hope you have a wonderful life. I hope you remember
that when I needed you most, you left me in the dirt,
not the other way around

[ManOfWesternesse]

You need to just drop it Karen, for your own sake & sanity. Don't reply. Ever.
(Oops, sorry - you already did. I did'nt see that.) Ah well... I'd honestly say, at this stage , cease communication (don't read any reply & don't send any).

[Rjeso]

I agree. It's done. It sucks, but that's how it works out sometimes. You don't need a friend that treats you like that anyway.

[Brice]

I wouldn't even bother with this person anymore Karen. Might as well let it go and take care of you and your family.

[Daghain]

Wow. Last time I checked, the earth revolved around the sun.

Write her off. No loss on your part there.

[Calla_Wolf]

HUGGLES

;)

[Nerak]

I know, I know, but I had to send that last little bit.

Seeing how it is her treating me like shit, not the other way around.

I didn't want her to have the last word in all of it.

And I am done now.

Sorry.

Thanks peeps!

Love ya!

And besides, I don't have internet access at home on the weekends, so two days of peace!! LOL

Huggles

me

[wizardsrainbow]

Huggles back to you now and always Karen. You are a good person, but you already know that, and for that, I am glad.

[Letti]

How could this woman behave like a friend? She deserves an Oscar award... For me she looks and behaves like the perfect enemy ever.

If she writes anything I think you should delete it without reading it, Karen.

[Randall Flagg]

Karen. So that others can comment-those who might not see this here. I am going to move this thread to an off topic area.
I will leave a redirect for one day, but any and all Collector's can go to Endworld to contribute to the thread.
Love and Light.

[Patrick]

Clearly you are better off without this so-called friend. I wish you and your family the best, Karen.

[Nerak]

Thank everyone...I guess she is now emailing mutual friends and telling them that we are in a fight and that she hopes that they won't not invite her because of it. (or something to that effect). I have already sent this friend the emails that she has sent to me and she thought it was funny that she was told we were only in a "fight"!! LOL

We shall see if they even make it to anything that our mutual friend plans, they haven't been in over a year, why start now?

[Brice]

Thank everyone...I guess she is now emailing mutual friends and telling them that we are in a fight and that she hopes that they won't not invite her because of it. (or something to that effect). I have already sent this friend the emails that she has sent to me and she thought it was funny that she was told we were only in a "fight"!! LOL

We shall see if they even make it to anything that our mutual friend plans, they haven't been in over a year, why start now?

Sounds to me like maybe she suspected it'd get back to you, or even wanted it to. Anyhow, I think she's just trying to stir up more trouble or keep your attention.

[Nerak]

just want to know what's being said behind my back, is all...

[mia/susannah]

Karen, this "person" is clearly not a true friend. She is very selfish and self centered. Best friends, of all people, should be supportive of each other no matter what. I thank god for my best friend when my daughter died.

You made a very wise, hard and painful decision to not let your daughter suffer. If she cannot understand that, it is her loss.

You need to just take care of you and your family right now. Give yourself a break and don't let the ignorance of this person get to you.

[Odetta]

just want to know what's being said behind my back, is all...

be very careful, here... you may want to clear out of this mess, let her look bad on her own.

[Nerak]

I am just letting people come to me. Not snooping on my own. My REAL friends stick up for me. :)

[Kevin]

I...wow.

She's not worth a second more of your time, youre family deserves you much, much more.

If she EVER had a problem with you, if she was your friend you two would have dealt with it when it happened. Instead she has built up her rage and anger and released it undeservedly on you at the WORST possible time.

Again, let her go. She's doesnt seem worth it. Not in the slightest.

*Huggles*

[Odetta]

I am just letting people come to me. Not snooping on my own. My REAL friends stick up for me. :)

yes... yes, they will. Good for you!

[jemaher]

Karen,

You made the correct decision for you. You and your husband made the correct decision for your family.
Aside from the pain and suffering which would be inflicted on a helpless neonate, Ask Dumb Bitch if she has any idea of the cost of the pointless and painful course of an extended NICU stay and the long term expense of caring for a child with these problems...

You need to send this Ignorant selfish self centered nut a thank you card for removing that kind of "friendship" from your life.


And God made a command level decision to not give such a classless ingrate the gift of motherhood. Her children would end up being bit players and supporting cast in the Melodrama of her life. It is, afterall, ALL about her!

Sorry, I digress!

[Nerak]

Jay, actually, God did make her a mother. She just had a baby in Sept. But she has always been anal retentive and self centered. No matter what she says.

I know we made the right decision. Even tho I have my moments. I know it was right. And the moments that I do have are completely selfish (wanting more time, wishing that we would have been able to see her eyes). But I know it was right for everyone, but her.

Thanks

K-

[Woofer]

How could this woman behave like a friend? She deserves an Oscar award... For me she looks and behaves like the perfect enemy ever.

If she writes anything I think you should delete it without reading it, Karen.

Better yet, block her email address.


Karen, this "person" is clearly not a true friend. She is very selfish and self centered. Best friends, of all people, should be supportive of each other no matter what. I thank god for my best friend when my daughter died.

You made a very wise, hard and painful decision to not let your daughter suffer. If she cannot understand that, it is her loss.

You need to just take care of you and your family right now. Give yourself a break and don't let the ignorance of this person get to you.

Bolding mine: This is what matters.



just want to know what's being said behind my back, is all...

be very careful, here... you may want to clear out of this mess, let her look bad on her own.

I agree. Just sit back and listen.

*WOLFHUGS to you and your family*

[Nerak]

thank you!!

[jemaher]

definitely, leave her alone and try not to rise to the bait if she attempts to lob another hate grenade your way.