Why did Andy tell them...?

[Letti]

Why did Andy tell the Calla folks when the wolves would come? Just to torture them?

[jayson]

because andy, like blaine, was a pyschopath [even for a robot]. andy delighted in the pain he would bring with his "news" about the Wolves. i don't think there's any more to it than that. andy told bc he wanted to hurt the folken.

[Wuducynn]

Why did Andy tell the Calla folks when the wolves would come? Just to torture them?


I think it gave the impression to the Calla folk that he was helpful in some way..but also because he liked to torture them...what a robot.

[Letti]

Good point, Matthew. I didn't think of that... but there is a lot in what you say.
Yeah, I am sure he wanted to see them suffering.
But it's possible he wanted to show his power as well.

[jayson]

i think he liked making a fake show of his power, like matthew said, to make it seem like he was useful and helping even if he knew he was not

[Wuducynn]

Just to show his lovable, snuggly side I'm sure:huglove:

[mia/susannah]

I agree, Andy wanted to torture the folken and show his power

[Letti]

Ehhh, I can't stand that walking box.

[Wuducynn]

Ehhh, I can't sand that walking box.

I couldn't sand him either..or salt him...or pour anything on him for that matter...well maybe water.

[Letti]

I guess I shouldn't post from my workplace.. I have no time to check what I write. :)

[ManOfWesternesse]

One thing is that Andy used his 'once-every-20-years-or-so' opportunity to give this 'vital' (ha,ha) informaion to them so that he could keep himself important to them.
That way he was always in on their plans - so if they decided to hide 20 kids in a cellar or whatever he (& therefore the Wolves) always knew exactly where to find them.
He would probably have known what they were up to anyway, but this way he was 100% sure to be in on the plans.
Also he had Slightman the elder recruited as extra insurance, and was'nt it hinted that in previous generations he always had someone on the inside in the Calla?

[LadyHitchhiker]

I felt kind of sorry for Andy... I'm sure originally he was a very neat robot but the ravages of time, reprogramming and anti-ka took their tolls on him.

[Letti]

Before you Liz I didn't know it's possible to be "too warm-hearted" but I think you made me realise it's possible.
Feel sorry for Andy? Incredible.

[jayson]

i feel as sympathetic for andy as i did for blaine, which is none. andy was a tool and a tool that rebels against it's master and delights in the torture of children is one that deserves to be removed from the toolbox. we don't know that this wasn't the purpose andy was built for and the rest just a cover. i doubt he was ever anything but the dickhead robot we met.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I think Andy was being used...
I think he was reprogrammed just as the Terminators were repogrammed to help John Conner rather than kill him, but I think it was the opposite way with Andy. Originally he was a mildly annoying horoscope-bot who was reprogrammed with fiendish purposes in mind... And yes, I did feel sorry for The Terminator at the end of Terminator 2 because I felt he had surpassed his programming and became more human, just as I empathized with Data from Star trek.
If Andy were human, I would say he was brainwashed...
That's my theory so far at least..
But he could very well just originally have been programmed for nefarious plots and just had the interesting little songs and ditties installed to cover up his evil plans...
I'm not SK I do not know the answer.

[jayson]

of course he was being used, that's what tools are for. you're right, we don't know what andy was built for, so i choose to judge him solely on the actions he took during the time we saw him. i can't feel bad for him. i barely feel sympathy for slightman, certainly not for andy. you're a more sympathetic person than i, that much is for sure.

[LadyHitchhiker]

My only super power is empathy... *le sigh*

[Storyslinger]

What R of G said.

Andy felt that he had been pushed around far to much from the Calla folks, so he would give them the bad news, then bask in their sorrow.

[Jean]

I agree with those who say he was programmed rather than operating on his own sadistic inclinations; and the answer to the question why might also answer the question why the children were brought back.

I think it's because no inhuman ruling wants to pose as such. Be it fascism or communism, or any other dragon demanding human sacrifices, the ideology never says, "we're tyrants, we'll rape and rob you daily because such is our desire." Everything is done for some good aim, and it is always emphasised that no excessive cruelty is ever imposed. Children are brought back, after all. We don't want anything that doesn't belong to us. We have used the kids for the sake of the Greater Good you're all unable to understand, and now here they are, you can have them, we're no robbers.

The warning gag is even more perverted... it's to make everyone feel that nothing happens by anyone's whim, but in accordance with elaborate procedure; and procedure is enough to create appearance of something useful being done. Remember how meticulously the nazi kept their accounts of all shoes, hair, golden teeth? How much paperwork communist regimes produced? It's the same. Bureaucracy is the shield between the horrible shameless reality of a power and the victims of that power.

[HanzouNorak]

you ever gone over to a friends house to pick him/her up for a sleepover, when you arrive they say you were unannounced and they aren't ready?

same prinicipal, although i dont see the use, he was proly just programmed to deliver the message anyway.

[ATG]

One thing is that Andy used his 'once-every-20-years-or-so' opportunity to give this 'vital' (ha,ha) informaion to them so that he could keep himself important to them.
That way he was always in on their plans - so if they decided to hide 20 kids in a cellar or whatever he (& therefore the Wolves) always knew exactly where to find them.
He would probably have known what they were up to anyway, but this way he was 100% sure to be in on the plans.
Also he had Slightman the elder recruited as extra insurance, and was'nt it hinted that in previous generations he always had someone on the inside in the Calla?

This is it.

[Matt]

I think it was because he was questioned. There was nothing in his programming against giving the information so when he was asked...he said what he knew.

What I wonder is did he warn them the first time the Wolves came. If he didn't then after that it was just all response to the question "are the Wolves coming?"

[Jean]

Citizens of Paris... on June 13, Wehrmacht forces are entering your city. Please keep quiet and do not leave your apartments without utter necessity.

[alinda]

Awesome insight's as usual my friends....
and Jean's spot on again too!
This is one time I wholeheartedly
agree, it is programming!

[Jean]

thank you Lady Linda http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_wub.gif,

I think I should expand on one point; I probably didn't make myself very clear, because it is not all about "looking better", as some (in another thread) seem to have understood me. By issuing warnings and meticulously returning the children, the regime creates a perfect routine procedure, which is a horrible force. In case of unexpected attack one may react unexpectedly, spontaneously, instinctively, - which would be to protect, to rebel, to revolt; but procedure paralyzes the will. It makes what happens something quite different from an act of someone's ill will directed against you or yours: it makes is part of established order of things, of how everything is in the universe, of a big implacable mechanism, - against which it's no use revolting. Evil can be evaluated in terms of "good" and "bad", but procedure lies beyond those categories.

Few regimes in history understood the force of procedure as fully as that of the Third Reich (but most tyrannies or their instrumental organisations did, to various extents). Those files of people lead to concentration camps consisted of thousands of prisoners guarded by only a few SS with a couple of dogs. People quietly marched into camps, towards their death, into ovens.

Wolves are coming on June 13, please keep quiet and get your children ready.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Haha!! They'll never find me!!!

[razz]

I think Andy was being used...
I think he was reprogrammed just as the Terminators were repogrammed to help John Conner rather than kill him, but I think it was the opposite way with Andy. Originally he was a mildly annoying horoscope-bot who was reprogrammed with fiendish purposes in mind... And yes, I did feel sorry for The Terminator at the end of Terminator 2 because I felt he had surpassed his programming and became more human, just as I empathized with Data from Star trek.
If Andy were human, I would say he was brainwashed...
That's my theory so far at least..
But he could very well just originally have been programmed for nefarious plots and just had the interesting little songs and ditties installed to cover up his evil plans...
I'm not SK I do not know the answer.

i have to disagree. i think that cruel spark was already there, the reprogramming just allowed him to unleash it.
By the way, did something happen to data that i don't know about?

[LadyHitchhiker]

Awwwwwww... nobody agrees with me....

[The Lady of Shadows]

i really got the feeling that andy hated the folken - as much as a robot can hate. he seemed to have that, i don't know, sinister feeling to him. i didn't like him from the very first time he showed up. and then when it turned out he was a traitor i thought well that explains that. i really thought it was just him though, so when it turned out that slightman the elder was in on it i was really very sad.

as for why he was doing it. programming? maybe. but like i said, i really just think he didn't like those folken. i think he felt like they thought they were better than him. i don't know why i got that feeling - just in every interaction it was like there was something bubbling under his surface.

sorry my dear my dear foxy llama - bet you feel like i feel with greta. :lol:

[Letti]

The more I read about that walking can the more I can't stand him.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Hey, maybe there's a reason Andy ended up not liking them...

I mean treating him like he was useless all those years, not appreciating him, and then his bad programming or deteroriating programming on top of it...

Maybe he was going insane like Blaine...

[Letti]

There is no reason for letting little children die.

[LadyHitchhiker]

No reason for a sane person or robot...

If I felt he was working properly I would have no sympathy for him. Also, I would detest his makers.

Who were his makers?

[Letti]

I don't feel Andy was insane. He did what he was programmed to do still I can't stand him. I don't think he had any other choice (he has neither own personality nor soul nor mind) but the way he acts makes me so damn angry with him. :)

[razz]

Who were his makers?

I believe North Central Positronics. Didn't they also create Data?

[The Lady of Shadows]

:lol:

[Woofer]

I don't feel Andy was insane. He did what he was programmed to do still I can't stand him. I don't think he had any other choice (he has neither own personality nor soul nor mind) but the way he acts makes me so damn angry with him. :)

I agree to an extent. I do think that Andy had some choice in the how of what he did, though, and I think he intentionally chose the how that would hurt the townfolks the most. And that's the area where I believe their treatment of him had an effect.



Who were his makers?

I believe North Central Positronics. Didn't they also create Data?

Doctor Noonien Soong worked for NCP? Woah.

[Bethany]

i think it had nothing to do with programming or hate and was all about getting the most of whatever it was the wolves took from the twins. think about it, it was some chemical/hormonal quality that they needed. if andy, or a predecessor, gave the calla enough warning-everyone goes in to full "fight or flight" mode, adrenaline and about a thousand other things start pumping through the brain and body....think of it as a psychological marinade.

[Woofer]

i think it had nothing to do with programming or hate and was all about getting the most of whatever it was the wolves took from the twins. think about it, it was some chemical/hormonal quality that they needed. if andy, or a predecessor, gave the calla enough warning-everyone goes in to full "fight or flight" mode, adrenaline and about a thousand other things start pumping through the brain and body....think of it as a psychological marinade.

Hrm, sounds like you do think it was programming, then. If that's what was needed from the twins (and I think that's an awesome theory, btw), then he would need to be programmed to ensure that's how it went. Even so, I feel like he derived pleasure from it. I think that, like Blaine, Andy was capable of rudimentary feelings.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Who were his makers?

I believe North Central Positronics. Didn't they also create Data?

You Rock Razz...

[AnOutsider]

I searched and didn't see this brought up, but one thing that kept bugging me: WHY did Andy warn the calla folk that the wolves were coming? Why did he get them to reach out the the gunslingers?

I'd originally thought that maybe he was really a good robot that was trying to fight his programming, but after finishing the book, it's clear that that's not the case.

Any thoughts?

*edt* nevermind, was messing up my search. Found this thread: http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=2219

[alinda]

Hi outsider, Welcome to the site.Interesting question...
I thought it was his programming that made him do it.
In any event the computers werent funtioning at all well anyway
were they? Maybe it was just a glitch, but I am not sure about it at all.

[Bev Vincent]

Andy enjoyed the desperation and panic his announcement caused among the Calla folken.

[ladysai]

Why did Andy blab about the wolves? "Messenger; many other functions" is about all we need to know on that question.
As far as Andy getting the folken to reach out to the gunslingers...if I remember correctly, it was the Old Fella who convinced the men at the town meeting to go to the ka-tet and ask for their help. Andy spread the news about the gunslingers' arrival, though.

[Letti]

Nevermind, Outsider. Welcome to the site. :rose: We will merge the two threads soon.

[The Dancing Clown]

My personal theory is that he's an arse.
" Say, the wolves're comin'. I know what they come for, and how they always know where the children are hidden, but I'm not telling you because you treat me like a pile of scrap. So, up yours."

... That's the mentality, anyway. The likelyness of Andy saying something like that is nihil, but you get the idea.

[AnOutsider]

I tend to agree with you guys. Andy's an asterisk.

Finishing up book 7 now so I can join in more discussions :) This was just one issue I thought was never resolved by king in the book

[flaggwalkstheline]

I think it's because andy like blaine became more humanlike as time wore on and part of that involved him telling the calla folk that the wolves were coming, yeah he was on the side of the CK but telling the calla folk that the wolves were coming satisfied that little bit of him that felt honestly bad

[educatedlady]

I agree with the idea that over time Andy, like Blaine, took on some human qualities. But, I don't think he ever felt bad for telling the people about the wolves. I think he enjoyed it. I always imagined that he rather enjoyed the panic he would cause. Each time he got to see everyone run around like crazy people for a month (or more).

[alinda]

Right, right , the machines gone mad :thumbsup:

[MPatrick]

Interesting point on the mad machines! I'm about to read through Wolves again. I started the series over, and just finished W&G. I've only read the last 3 once before, so I'm sure there's so much depth I've missed.

I'll certainly pay more attention to Andy this go 'round!

[AnOutsider]

I wonder if some of it can be placed on the folken? They didn't actually treat Andy very well

[Merlin1958]

Ummmm not trying to be contreversial but, Bev Vincent has MUCH better access to SK than us and has written TRTTDT which was the result of numerous interviews so, if he says Andy got off on the panic the news caused should we really continue to speculate? just a thought.

It was a good question and I believe it was properly answered, but that's just me. Continue if you wish. MHO

[Brainslinger]

Ummmm not trying to be contreversial but, Bev Vincent has MUCH better access to SK than us and has written TRTTDT which was the result of numerous interviews so, if he says Andy got off on the panic the news caused should we really continue to speculate?

Sure. Unless something is specifically stated there are no right and wrong answers even despite what the writer himself might think. If he didn't write it, it's open...

That being said I agree with Bev's statement. It did seem pretty clear to me that Andy was enjoying their pain. We get a taste of the real Andy particularly in the scene where Jake spies on him in the Dogan. I like the idea he has become more human though, but I'm sure it's not in the positive sense. He is a creature of malice now... within certain set parameters.

[MPatrick]

Ummmm not trying to be contreversial but, Bev Vincent has MUCH better access to SK than us and has written TRTTDT which was the result of numerous interviews so, if he says Andy got off on the panic the news caused should we really continue to speculate?

Sure. Unless something is specifically stated there are no right and wrong answers even despite what the writer himself might think. If he didn't write it, it's open...

That being said I agree with Bev's statement. It did seem pretty clear to me that Andy was enjoying their pain. We get a taste of the real Andy particularly in the scene where Jake spies on him in the Dogan. I like the idea he has become more human though, but I'm sure it's not in the positive sense. He is a creature of malice now... within certain set parameters.

Good points! For what it's worth, you've both (and Bev) made me even more psyched to read through this book again! Thanks...

[MPatrick]

Well, I've just finished my second reading of Wolves and I can totally see how Andy got off on the panic and misery his "message" brought. Andy was a trig bastard, and a bigger a$$hole then I originally remembered.

I love Andy as a character in this book, since I wanted to smash out his eyes and watch him squirm, but I hated him too. That's a great character, the ones you love to hate.

What a prick. I loved how the Tet picked up on it right away, his smug and smarmy ways.

Classic King villain. :evil:

[Sickrose]

I agree that Andy was there to keep an eye on the folken. I wonder what he originally supposed to be doing there?

I have the Simpsons game for the WII and for some reason I cant get the image of Andy as the giant Dunkin donuts robot, from the game, out of my head when I read.

[pinkymcfatfat]

After reading the book, I thought that one of Andy's 'many other functions' was 'spy'.

I don't think he was ever insane, like Blaine ( if he had been, it would have been noticeable quite some time before and would have blown whatever cover he had), or re-programmed at any point. He was doing exactly what he was susposed to do, keep an eye on the locals (including reporting in how many available children there were) and keeping them afraid.

As for drawing the Gunslingers into the whole ordeal..is it possible they had been sighted before and there was a APB out on them? Andy very well might have reported them into whatever powers that were and been told to draw them into the battle. Not only in hopes of killing them, but to give more time for the final beams to be broken.

[DoctorDodge]

My opinion was Andy was the kind of smug bastard who would love to demonstrate just how much thicker the "simple folk" were compared to him. To see how long it take for someone to ask where he gets his knowledge from, to see how many people would just accept that.

It wouldn't be the primary reason he would've announced the coming of the wolves - as plenty of people have said before, the most likely was to spread fear and panic, just because he was a total psychopath - but being a smug bastard might've been an extra incentive.

[grobblewobble]

First off, I think "programming" was just Andy's favourite excuse; he had his personal motives. He despised the Calla folk after being used, misused and mistreated by them for over 2000(!) years. I do feel sympathy for him, everyone saw him as annoying and a mere tool, while he was as capable of feelings as a human being. After 2000 years of being looked down upon and treated like a slave by those humans who could barely even count, it is only too understandable that he had started to hate them. So yeah.. he enjoyed spreading misery with the bad news.

I felt the end of Andy was a tragedy.

That said, there is also the question why he was informed about it by the wolves in the first place. It was not merely Andy's own decision; the wolves apparently wanted Andy to warn the citizens in advance. Andy regularly parlayed with (the leaders of) the wolves in the Dogan, after all. And their motives are beautifully captured by Jean, in my opinion:


I think it's because no inhuman ruling wants to pose as such. Be it fascism or communism, or any other dragon demanding human sacrifices, the ideology never says, "we're tyrants, we'll rape and rob you daily because such is our desire." Everything is done for some good aim, and it is always emphasised that no excessive cruelty is ever imposed. Children are brought back, after all. We don't want anything that doesn't belong to us. We have used the kids for the sake of the Greater Good you're all unable to understand, and now here they are, you can have them, we're no robbers.

The warning gag is even more perverted... it's to make everyone feel that nothing happens by anyone's whim, but in accordance with elaborate procedure; and procedure is enough to create appearance of something useful being done. Remember how meticulously the nazi kept their accounts of all shoes, hair, golden teeth? How much paperwork communist regimes produced? It's the same. Bureaucracy is the shield between the horrible shameless reality of a power and the victims of that power.