The Great Movie Tournament - 1990s: Round 1 - Group 28 of 32

[mae]

During the first round of The Great Movie Tournament, please vote for up to six films you would like to move onto the next round. The top six films will be moving on. Keep in mind that the percentage of the vote a given film receives will determine its standing going forward.

The poll will run for seven days. Discussion is greatly encouraged!

The nominees are (please let me know if any video doesn't play for you):


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/The_Thin_Red_Line_Poster.jpg/220px-The_Thin_Red_Line_Poster.jpg
The Thin Red Line (1998) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thin_Red_Line_%281998_film%29)
Directed by Terrence Malick


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejm0XvT3rB8

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d8/La_confidential.jpg/220px-La_confidential.jpg
L.A. Confidential (1997) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.A._Confidential_%28film%29)
Directed by Curtis Hanson


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sOXrY5yV4g

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Fight_Club_poster.jpg
Fight Club (1999) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_Club)
Directed by David Fincher


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdJKm16Co6M

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c1/The_Matrix_Poster.jpg/220px-The_Matrix_Poster.jpg
The Matrix (1999) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix)
Directed by The Wachowskis


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKQi3bBA1y8

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/89/DeadManPoster.jpg/220px-DeadManPoster.jpg
Dead Man (1995) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Man)
Directed by Jim Jarmusch


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYlMmLStUk

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Wayne%27s_World.jpg/220px-Wayne%27s_World.jpg
Wayne's World (1992) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne%27s_World_%28film%29)
Directed by Penelope Spheeris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sar95kvhNVA

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/47/Boys_Don%27t_Cry_%281999%29.png/220px-Boys_Don%27t_Cry_%281999%29.png
Boys Don't Cry (1999) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_Don%27t_Cry_%28film%29)
Directed by Kimberly Peirce


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqqqaV0Cn3M

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0a/Breakdownmovie.jpg/215px-Breakdownmovie.jpg
Breakdown (1997) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakdown_%281997_film%29)
Directed by Jonathan Mostow


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECIc4pX8zKA

[webstar1000]

I am only voting for one here.

[Mattrick]

I accidentally voted for Fight Club, but I don't think it's going to affect anything.

[webstar1000]

How DID NOT vote for the Matrix though so far????

[Still Servant]

I accidentally voted for Fight Club, but I don't think it's going to affect anything.

You don't like Fight Club?

[Randall Flagg]

I accidentally voted for Fight Club, but I don't think it's going to affect anything.
As much as I want more votes for Fight Club, I removed your vote from the total for accuracy.

[Mattrick]

I accidentally voted for Fight Club, but I don't think it's going to affect anything.

You don't like Fight Club?


Not particularly, no. It's definition of overrated movies for me :/ Little appeal outside of some fun performances. I like the first 20 minutes or so.

[Heather19]

Out of curiosity, have you read the book Matt?

[Mattrick]

I haven't read any Pahalniuk or however you spell his name...I never get it right.

[fernandito]

Fight Club gets betrayed by its own stylistic approach. It's actually a very insightful commentary on how easily our species is manipulated. If anything its underrated.

And of course, that first Matrix is one of the greatest films of any decade.

[Mattrick]

It's #10 on the IMDB top films of all time and has an 8.8 score, a 96% audience score on RT. That's not underrated.

I personally find the social commentary totally lacking from most of the film. The first 20 minutes are pretty engaging in that respect. American Psycho was a similar film thematically and was MUCH better all around.

[fernandito]

I love AS but it benefits greatly by Bales performance. FC is a lot richer and has a lot more to say about the human condition than AS does.

[Mattrick]

I'd argue AS has more to say about the human condition, specifically the male condition. Psycho is more about how vicious masculinity has become something different, but is alive and well, and the destructiveness of male vanity and the need to be the alpha. And when you consider the possibility that Bateman didn't actually kill anyone and his probable latent homosexuality, there's many more psychological layers to American Psycho.



What really is there to Fight Club other than a take on "The Beautiful Ones" experiment? I see it as: modern men supplant masculinity and sexuality with consumerism, but it's empty and soul-sucking, and the only way men can truly be free is to tear down the capitalist structure that seeks to suppress them. And I meant this as a genuine question, because I would like to know what others see in the film beyond that. Maybe I'd appreciate the theme of Fight Club more if Fincher wasn't so overt with it...felt very insecure to me.

[Still Servant]

I'd argue AS has more to say about the human condition, specifically the male condition. Psycho is more about how vicious masculinity has become something different, but is alive and well, and the destructiveness of male vanity and the need to be the alpha. And when you consider the possibility that Bateman didn't actually kill anyone and his probable latent homosexuality, there's many more psychological layers to American Psycho.



What really is there to Fight Club other than a take on "The Beautiful Ones" experiment? I see it as: modern men supplant masculinity and sexuality with consumerism, but it's empty and soul-sucking, and the only way men can truly be free is to tear down the capitalist structure that seeks to suppress them. And I meant this as a genuine question, because I would like to know what others see in the film beyond that. Maybe I'd appreciate the theme of Fight Club more if Fincher wasn't so overt with it...felt very insecure to me.

There's a lot going on in Fight Club. There are so many themes that it's throwing at the viewer. If anything, that's it's biggest flaw. Obviously, the most apparent one is its commentary on consumerism. The aspect of the film that I always get the most from is themes of isolation. Both Ed Norton's character and Marla Singer are truly lost souls. They are drawn to each other as an escape from their mundane lives. Speaking of that, I think that's another strong theme. How as humans we all settle into this boring cookie cutter lives. His description of the office building as a filing cabinet has always stuck with me. " This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time."

Don't forget about the part of the film where they try to give meaning to people's lives. There are a few scenes where they literally try to motivate people to be their best self. By threatening someone with death, they are challenging them to live a fulfilling life. "If you aren't on your way to becoming a vet in six weeks, you will be dead."

The other scene I reference all the time is when Marla is surprised Norton's character is listening to her. She states something along the line that most people don't listen, they are just waiting for their turn to talk. Another commentary on selfishness. I see it more and more every day, if I'm being honest.

That said, clearly the main theme is about material things and how they define who we are. "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

[RUBE]

Didn't someone post a video on this forum somewhere about how Fight Club was a fascist movie? I didn't agree with a lot of it but it made some good points.

If you are asking what theme the author had instead of the producer then I say "Who the fuck knows?" Anyone that has read Rant should realize that Palahniuk is just trying to be as extremely different as possible.

Actually, now that I cheated and looked it up, that is his theme. He describes his own work as Transgressive fiction. Which Wikipedia says is a genre of literature which focuses on characters who feel confined by the norms and expectations of society and who break free of those confines in unusual or illicit ways.

[Mattrick]

I'd argue AS has more to say about the human condition, specifically the male condition. Psycho is more about how vicious masculinity has become something different, but is alive and well, and the destructiveness of male vanity and the need to be the alpha. And when you consider the possibility that Bateman didn't actually kill anyone and his probable latent homosexuality, there's many more psychological layers to American Psycho.



What really is there to Fight Club other than a take on "The Beautiful Ones" experiment? I see it as: modern men supplant masculinity and sexuality with consumerism, but it's empty and soul-sucking, and the only way men can truly be free is to tear down the capitalist structure that seeks to suppress them. And I meant this as a genuine question, because I would like to know what others see in the film beyond that. Maybe I'd appreciate the theme of Fight Club more if Fincher wasn't so overt with it...felt very insecure to me.

There's a lot going on in Fight Club. There are so many themes that it's throwing at the viewer. If anything, that's it's biggest flaw. Obviously, the most apparent one is its commentary on consumerism. The aspect of the film that I always get the most from is themes of isolation. Both Ed Norton's character and Marla Singer are truly lost souls. They are drawn to each other as an escape from their mundane lives. Speaking of that, I think that's another strong theme. How as humans we all settle into this boring cookie cutter lives. His description of the office building as a filing cabinet has always stuck with me. " This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time."

Don't forget about the part of the film where they try to give meaning to people's lives. There are a few scenes where they literally try to motivate people to be their best self. By threatening someone with death, they are challenging them to live a fulfilling life. "If you aren't on your way to becoming a vet in six weeks, you will be dead."

The other scene I reference all the time is when Marla is surprised Norton's character is listening to her. She states something along the line that most people don't listen, they are just waiting for their turn to talk. Another commentary on selfishness. I see it more and more every day, if I'm being honest.

That said, clearly the main theme is about material things and how they define who we are. "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."


A lot of the themes you present have just been done better in other films. Office Space is a big example, as is the opening scene Of Nicholson staring at the clock as he's about to retire, totally dumbfounded, in About Schmidt. And you're right in that if there is so much jammed in to its detriment, it's probably why nothing seems really fleshed out and explored. It's always felt like a film that posited something, and then never elaborated on it, and was already onto positing something else. Nothing felt to have been explored too meaningfully for me. As a piece of entertainment, I get it. I wish I see this deep philosophical masterpiece everyone else sees, because I love Fincher. But Fight Club never connected with me.

RUBE, yeah, you could say there are fascist overtones to Fight Club...especially if you believe groups like The Proud Boys and other Men's Rights Activist groups are fascist or terrorist organization, then Fight Club would be a very fascist film, since it's basically about a man's right to exist as nature intended, the nature of sex and violence and combat. All terrorism is fascist in some degree. Whether or not it's a story about how fascism is good...I don't know. But it follow the playbook for how terrorism, revolutions, militias, or cults mobilize...take fear or anger or uncertainty, convince them they're victims of a massive oppressive force, promise them the answers and the solution to their problem, then tell them they need to act to destroy the oppressive force and that they're on the right side, and the end goal is freedom/liberation/reform, what have you. That's modern day politics in a nutshell, really. People on the right fear the oppression of the left and the left taking away their rights, and the people on the left fear the oppression of the right and them taking away their rights....I suppose that's just always been how politics have been...

[Jean]

I haven't read any PahalniukNo! how come?!

or however you spell his name...I never get it right.I had the same problem until I saw the cyrilic transcription of his name (Палагнюк), which solved the issue for me once and forever. Don't know if it helps anyone else, though http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_grin.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/bear_grin.gif.html)



And of course, that first Matrix is one of the greatest films of any decade.it is? http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_unsure.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/bear_unsure.gif.html)

[Still Servant]

A lot of the themes you present have just been done better in other films.

Maybe so, but that doesn't make Fight Club overrated.

Anyway, my main question, and I think it's an important one and could determine how much enjoyment a person gets out of the film, is whether or not you saw the film the first time knowing the twist. I saw Fight Club when it came out and the twist was so well done. Nowadays, it's been done a million times, but back then I remember wanting to watch the film again immediately.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the quality of the film is determined by the twist, but there is a sense of enjoyment one can gain by being utterly surprised. You can't tell me a person will enjoy The Sixth Sense as much if they watch it for the first time knowing that Bruce Willis is dead.

[Randall Flagg]

I had no idea about the twist, and didn't figure it out before the reveal. Loved the movie.
I also enjoyed The Sixth Sense, but figured out the twist about 30 minutes into the film.

[mae]

Three movies tied for sixth place.

[Still Servant]

Too bad about Dead Man. It's such an interesting Western.

[mae]

The poll has closed. The following six titles are moving on to the next round:


The Matrix (84.00%)
Fight Club (72.00%)
L.A. Confidential (56.00%)
Wayne's World (36.00%)
The Thin Red Line (28.00%)
Breakdown (24.00%)


And the following two titles have been eliminated:


Boys Don't Cry (16.00%)
Dead Man (16.00%)