The Tower and Roland's life story

[Mark]

So, at the end of The Dark Tower, Roland climbs The Tower and each room he see's a segment of his life. Now, after re-reading, "The Gunslinger" it says that the Tower is the nexus of time AND size, now this got me thinking.

Were i to reach the tower, and have some sort of Sign of Eld, and i were to climb it, would i see my life portrayed inside? Say my life was shorter than Rolands, would the tower then shrink for me? And, Ka-tet brought this up, if i were to climb it with a friend, would the tower be bigger/smaller for him, and show his eyes his memories, and every experience we've had together show us the same room?

Is there even an answer to this question?
Sorry if this has been brought up before, i'm just really curious. Thanks.

[Ka-tet]

*head exploads*

Im still sort of finding it hard to get my head around this one friend.

If i enterd the tower with you and i had more floors than you what would happen when you reach the top of your life? would i keep going and eventualy meet you at the top?

[Mark]

Yeah, you're a year older than me, so every experience we have together would be at different times right? 'cause like when we first met up, you'd spent the day with Joss already, so there'd be a bit more ahead, say, a floor.

[Ka-tet]

yeah thats what confuzzels me, the floor would be there for me(and joss if she were there) but what would happen if me you and joss walked up the stairs at the same time step by step. would you just dissapear for me and her? and we would meet later?

[Mark]

Different staircases, perhaps? Or maybe a "Please wait" sign on the door?

[Ka-tet]

Different staircases...I like that...

[Letti]

I think the Dark Tower is always the same size (from the utside). Huge and breath-taking. But of course if your life was shoter it would show you less rooms.
Anyway I have a feeling (I don't really know why) that at the same time only one person can step into the Dark Tower. Because it's about you and your universe. You have to climb it alone. Maybe when you reach the top your friends can follow but just one by one. As I have said it's just a feeling.

[Jean]

I don't even think they can follow him inside, not only because the idea of forming a queue for the Tower doesn't sit very well with me, but because it always felt to me like one person - one quest. In some other world there maybe someone else on quest for the Tower, followed by another ka-tet, but it's always someone on the quest, and others following.

[Letti]

And the Tower is not a museum... it's about one person at a time.
(Great to know you felt something similar, Jean.)

[Ka-tet]

I don't even think they can follow him inside, not only because the idea of forming a queue for the Tower doesn't sit very well with me, but because it always felt to me like one person - one quest. In some other world there maybe someone else on quest for the Tower, followed by another ka-tet, but it's always someone on the quest, and others following.

Im afraid that i disagree with you on this point Jean. I belive that Rolands whole ka-tet was ment to enter the tower, i belive this is one of the reasons that(from what we saw) the room at the top was impossible to reach.

Your thoughts?

[Jean]

Ka-tet, - for me the Tower is entirely between God and the one who seeks, since it represents the soul of the seeker; - but I have developed it elsewhere, so please, look around a bit. This has been discussed at different angles, and many people have already expressed lots of interesting points of view; there are all kinds of threads about the meaning of the loop, and the possible outcome, and what must be in the room at the top.

Also, please don't mark TDT spoilers here, it's a spoiler forum! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Ka-tet]

You say its between god and the one who seeks it? What if more than one seek it? I know the quest was always Rolands to begin with but i think his tet picked up on that, jake and eddie most of all i tihnk they understood Roland more than others..

And okay xD no more marking spoilers in here ><

[Letti]

It's always better to mark spoilers all the time than forget to mark them. ;)

[Ka-tet]

^_^

[jayson]

You say its between god and the one who seeks it? What if more than one seek it? I know the quest was always Rolands to begin with but i think his tet picked up on that, jake and eddie most of all i tihnk they understood Roland more than others..


i have to agree with jean and letti here. staying with the Tower as metaphor for finding one's soul as Jean suggsted, and that is consistent with classic mythology's use of the world axis in metaphors, it is not achievable in group form. in the end, enlightenment is a solo mission. the rest of the tet were never meant to find the Tower, it's not their Tower. the repetition in personal qualities of his companions leads me to believe rather that the ka-mates represent qualities lacking in roland.

[Ka-tet]

R Of G said

the repetition in personal qualities of his companions leads me to believe rather that the ka-mates represent qualities lacking in roland.

So when Roland learns from the mistakes his ka-mates will no longer be needed? andtherefore will not be drawn? Eddie will most likly be arrested, Jake will probobly go insane?

[jayson]

R Of G said

the repetition in personal qualities of his companions leads me to believe rather that the ka-mates represent qualities lacking in roland.

So when Roland learns from the mistakes his ka-mates will no longer be needed? andtherefore will not be drawn? Eddie will most likly be arrested, Jake will probobly go insane?

you should find and read some of the other posts about the end and it's consequences bc a lot of this stuff has been addressed more fully and you may find a lot of what you are looking for. in short, i don't personally believe roland has to "learn from mistakes" to end his loop. I don't think he can or will end his loop, ever. it's not punishment, it's just his existence. i don't think he pulls the same ka-tet everytime, nor do i think the events of the loop are the same every time, nor do i see evidence it's the same every time. we don't know how many times he's done the loop, or what it was like any other time. also, on some levels of the multiverse, eddie did get arrested and jake did go crazy. for every possibility there is a level of the Tower where it happened.

[Jean]

it is not achievable in group form.
perfectly stated

[Ka-tet]

*Runs off in search of relavent topics*

[jayson]

other than Adam & Eve, I know of no mythological story where the World Axis is found by multiple personae. they all seem to suggest that the Axis is within, not without, and thus it's an inner journey and thus, necessarily, one we do alone.

[Ka-tet]

Im not sure i understand what you mean. But if i do then what you are sating is that Ka-tet has no meaning or value?

[Jean]

it is not achievable in group form.
perfectly stated
although we mean very different things (mine being the salvation, yours an infinite search for - and infinite finding - the Axis; there's also polar opposition of that within/without thing), neither is achieved in group form, even though assistance may be needed, physically or spiritually. Ultimately, it (either of those entities) is a lonely quest.

[Ka-tet]

I see. So did each member of the tet have there own quest? Or are we just talking Roland. And if each member of the tet did there own quest presumably they failed? Because there all dead(or are going to die if were at the start of the loop). And going by what R-O-G said we need not just speak of the tet we read about..

[jayson]

it is not achievable in group form.
perfectly stated
although we mean very different things (mine being the salvation, yours an infinite search for - and infinite finding - the Axis), neither is achieved in group form, even though assistance may be needed, physically or spiritually. Ultimately, it (either of those entities) is a lonely quest.

very true Jean, and that's what makes Roland such a great reprentation of Campbell's "Hero With a Thousand Faces." his story works metaphorically for both of us though we find [and seek] two different things in it.

[Jean]

Jayson: right as usual...

Ka-tet: I believe anyone, theoretically, can go on such a quest. Not everyone does, though.

[jayson]

I see. So did each member of the tet have there own quest? Or are we just talking Roland. And if each member of the tet did there own quest presumably they failed? Because there all dead(or are going to die if were at the start of the loop). And going by what R-O-G said we need not just speak of the tet we read about..

good follow-up question. my thoughts are that they each had quests of their own, and did not fail. eddie redeemed himself and stood true to his end. jake was given a chance at a "truer" life and he took it, never letting fear overtake him. he stood true to his end. i have issues with Susannah's end, but she nontheless redeemed herself and became whole. Oy was cast out of his society and became ka-tet with them. in the end he stood true and saved roland's life! all of them were given second chances by their association with Roland. all of them succeeded. my two cents.

[Ka-tet]

Jean:I see. But i dont understand if we can all take the quest why we cannot share it..

R-O-G:I think im finally starting to see what you mean ><

[Jean]

I see. But i dont understand if we can all take the quest why we cannot share it..
Answering this question would mean understanding the true nature of the Tower. Rough analogies suggest quests for the hand of a beautiful maiden, or for the crown; we can't all get either or them, but we can get one each. The only (but crucial) difference between those examples and the Tower is that the Tower, being that maiden or crown of your own, will always remain one and the same Tower.

[jayson]

Jean:I see. But i dont understand if we can all take the quest why we cannot share it..

R-O-G:I think im finally starting to see what you mean ><

it's takes awhile, i tend to ramble. :orely:

[Ka-tet]

Ha dont we all somtimes?

Jean:Right..im still nopt sure i follow you all the way

[Woofer]

other than Adam & Eve, I know of no mythological story where the World Axis is found by multiple personae. they all seem to suggest that the Axis is within, not without, and thus it's an inner journey and thus, necessarily, one we do alone.

I just want to go on record saying that your avatar right now, George Harrison, is too perfect beside this observation. I know you know this, but you will change it again, and others won't know how appropriate it was to have those words beside George Harrison's head.

Also, I agree with almost all of what you've said about the Tower in this thread.

[jayson]

duly noted. george stays up at least thru his bday on monday. thanks!

[Letti]

We all have Towers and beams to lead us. If we find a ka-tet we have more chance to reach it. But some of us miss the beam... some of us fail during the quest...
but when you reach there that Tower will be just yours.
You can share our thoughts and feelings with others but you cannot lend them. They will always stay inside our head. Noone can enter there. (If you believe in God, he is the only one who can.)
You can hold your love's hand during the day, you can cry on their shoulders... you can share your fears and dreams with them... but when you go to sleep and you close your eyes /inside/ you stay alone.

Stepping into the Tower is like stepping inside yourself.

[Brice]

I think I agree for the most part Letti...except maybe for brief moments we can enter each other's inside lives on some level...maybe even the deepest levels. Maybe this makes a little sense. Maybe not. It is what it is. :)

[Letti]

I guess I see what you mean still I say you can share those levels with the loved ones but they can't enter.
They can open the door (that's very hard and lots of work as well) and look around but they can't go in and sit down to have a tea inside your head.
It's possible that you are so close to each other that the other one knows your inside as if she was you.. because you talked so much and you feel each other so much still she couldn't enter.
Of course it depends on what you mean by "entering".

[Ka-tet]

Letti said

Stepping into the Tower is like stepping inside yourself.

I still disagree with me not being able to enter the tower with others. You said stepping into the tower is like stepping inside yourself, what if i want others to end my tower, myself? Like roland would have with his tet?

[Letti]

It might sound rough but it doesn't matter what you want. You have no power over it.
Just my two cents, that's how I see.

[LadyHitchhiker]

oops

[LadyHitchhiker]

went to church Sunday and the homily was talking of the gift of everliving water or everlasting water that Jesus offered a Samaritan... There was a quote I'll paraphrase that reminded me of Roland:

"If you drink from this cup you will never thirst..."

but I think it's the opposite for Roland. He drank from the cup .. the "Wizard's glass" - if you'll allow me to simile - and he will now thirst for all the days of his life... Unless he can find a way to give up the tower, he will thirst forever...

I don't know how much I believe it but it was at least a poetic thought.

[Ka-tet]

Ahh..That is a little rough Letti xD

[Letti]

Life is a little rough. ;)

There are some great thoughts in your post, Liz. I think you could put it into words very well. That's Roland. A forever thirsty wanderer. A walking tragedy... (stealing Odetta's words)

[Mark]

So, Letti, in other words, Roland is just "using" his Ka-tet, they just happen to find something to die for on the way? ('sept Susannah)

[Ka-tet]

I dont think thats what Letti is getting at man. We can all see that roland cared about his tet, he loved them all in his own way. Plus what letti is saying(if i understand correctly) is that roland never needed his tet in the first place(i disagree).

[jayson]

I dont think thats what Letti is getting at man. We can all see that roland cared about his tet, he loved them all in his own way. Plus what letti is saying(if i understand correctly) is that roland never needed his tet in the first place(i disagree).

if i may, and i could be wrong as well, but i think what she means is that he can't have them to "enter the Tower" with him, as entering the Tower is something wholly personal that cannot be shared or accomplished with other people, possibly bc it all takes place inside your own mind.

i don't think any of us would say Roland never needed them bc each one of them proved immensely important, right up to Oy saving his life from Mordred right before the end. he needed them as much as they needed him, and all for the same reasons, personal redemption.

that's how i see it anyway. i don't presume to speak for anybody else though.

[Matt]

possibly bc it all takes place inside your own mind.

:thumbs up:

I think this is exactly the case--I just try and keep in mind how terribly powerful the Tower is. It can literally do anything--a bit like God :ninja:

[Letti]

Guys, it's quite interesting to see how you try to interpet my words... did I sound so unclear and mean, Mark?
Roland did love his ka-tet.
He did need them.
He did belong to them.
He did respect them.
He was their dinh... their father... their family...
These aren't questions at all.

But I do think even if they had arrived at the Dark Tower together he would have been able to enter it alone. Just by himself. What would have happened to the others outside... that's another very interesting question but for my part I am sure the Tower couldn't have been climbed by more than one person.

[Ka-tet]

I get you now i think Letti><

Letti said

What would have happened to the others outside... that's another very interesting question

Indeed it is, ive never actualy thought about this before...Maby there minds would be with roland in the tower then?(if we assume for the sake of discussion that they cant enter)

I would very much like to discuss this more :excited:

[Mark]

What would have happened to the others outside... that's another very interesting question but for my part I am sure the Tower couldn't have been climbed by more than one person.

Perhaps, if Roland were to conquer it, to reach the top, he could make a door appear for them?

[Ka-tet]

I dont think so, like its been said on the site before the first room showed rolands start in life, the last room will sure show(and most probobly bring) his end.

but thats another thing alltogether ><