General Discussion of the NFL

[Jon]

I've been kind of waiting for this thread to be made so...



The Seahawks had better get their "O" line right, real quick!

They looked good this week but that was the Lions they played...2 sacks in the first quarter of a predominately running game??

I wouldn't sell R.Wilson any life or health insurance.


BTW....OUCH!!!! Got facemask??






http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae214/denny111/Richardsonn%20eek.jpg


http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae214/denny111/richardson%20eeek.jpg

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae214/denny111/Richardson%20eeek2.jpg

[Sai Sheb]

Sorry Jon Patriots all the way!

[Still Servant]

Is this one of those start-up leagues? I've never heard of it.

[Merlin1958]

Sorry Jon Patriots all the way!

Then I guess you're pretty happy the Giants were eliminated, huh? lol lol

[ke7285]

I think it is Green Bay and New England Super Bowl, Patriot's win. Yes the Lions have a lot of bad call's go against them the past few year's, in the first picture the ref is looking straight at the play, this is why I don't watch much NFL anymore. In my 55 year's the lions played in 12 playoff game's winning only 1 the 91-92 season against the Cowboys.

[fernandito]

Yeah, can't believe we didn't already have a thread like this tbh. Shame on us.

I'm a Packers fan, but I think the odds are stacked against us winning this SB. We're pretty much invincible on offense, but our defense has more holes than swiss cheese. The only reason we weren't down to the Giants early yesterday was because Beckham decided to come out with hands of stone and Eli overthrew a couple of passes.

That's not going to happen with surgeons like Brady or Roethlisberger.

[Still Servant]

Yeah, can't believe we didn't already have a thread like this tbh. Shame on us.

I'm a Packers fan, but I think the odds are stacked against us winning this SB. We're pretty much invincible on offense, but our defense has more holes than swiss cheese. The only reason we weren't down to the Giants early yesterday was because Beckham decided to come out with hands of stone and Eli overthrew a couple of passes.

That's not going to happen with surgeons like Brady or Roethlisberger.

None of those passes were overthrown. This is the NFL, you have to catch every single one of those passes. Brown doesn't drop those. That could have been a very different game if those balls were caught early.

[Sai Sheb]

Sorry Jon Patriots all the way!

Then I guess you're pretty happy the Giants were eliminated, huh? lol lol

Giants or packers don't make no odds... NE win... I was about 8/9 years old when my Big brother said let's put a bet on the SB... ok I said(not knowing what it was) so the money went on NE and they won, meaning we won £75 each great win... since then I've been a fan of NE and the game, not many fans this side if the pond... I also support Tottenham Hotspur who are having a retractable pitch put in so we can host NFL games next season...

[fernandito]

Yeah, can't believe we didn't already have a thread like this tbh. Shame on us.

I'm a Packers fan, but I think the odds are stacked against us winning this SB. We're pretty much invincible on offense, but our defense has more holes than swiss cheese. The only reason we weren't down to the Giants early yesterday was because Beckham decided to come out with hands of stone and Eli overthrew a couple of passes.

That's not going to happen with surgeons like Brady or Roethlisberger.

None of those passes were overthrown. This is the NFL, you have to catch every single one of those passes. Brown doesn't drop those. That could have been a very different game if those balls were caught early.Not talking about the dropped passes; there were 1 or 2 sideline throws were Eli was just a hair off.

Our CBs got smoked in the first Quarter but they adjusted uncharacteristically well over the course of the game.




Sorry Jon Patriots all the way!

Then I guess you're pretty happy the Giants were eliminated, huh? lol lol

Giants or packers don't make no odds... NE win... I was about 8/9 years old when my Big brother said let's put a bet on the SB... ok I said(not knowing what it was) so the money went on NE and they won, meaning we won £75 each great win... since then I've been a fan of NE and the game, not many fans this side if the pond... I also support Tottenham Hotspur who are having a retractable pitch put in so we can host NFL games next season...

How much money did they make you when they got smoked by Eli Manning and the Giants in back to back attended SBs? :P

[Sai Sheb]

Yeah, can't believe we didn't already have a thread like this tbh. Shame on us.

I'm a Packers fan, but I think the odds are stacked against us winning this SB. We're pretty much invincible on offense, but our defense has more holes than swiss cheese. The only reason we weren't down to the Giants early yesterday was because Beckham decided to come out with hands of stone and Eli overthrew a couple of passes.

That's not going to happen with surgeons like Brady or Roethlisberger.

None of those passes were overthrown. This is the NFL, you have to catch every single one of those passes. Brown doesn't drop those. That could have been a very different game if those balls were caught early.Not talking about the dropped passes; there were 1 or 2 sideline throws were Eli was just a hair off.

Our CBs got smoked in the first Quarter but they adjusted uncharacteristically well over the course of the game.




Sorry Jon Patriots all the way!

Then I guess you're pretty happy the Giants were eliminated, huh? lol lol

Giants or packers don't make no odds... NE win... I was about 8/9 years old when my Big brother said let's put a bet on the SB... ok I said(not knowing what it was) so the money went on NE and they won, meaning we won £75 each great win... since then I've been a fan of NE and the game, not many fans this side if the pond... I also support Tottenham Hotspur who are having a retractable pitch put in so we can host NFL games next season...

How much money did they make you when they got smoked by Eli Manning and the Giants in back to back attended SBs? :P

You really know how to kick a man when he's down

[fernandito]

:lol: :evil:

[St. Troy]

I too am a Pats fan (and isn't it great being a fan of a cold weather team, when of the 8 games each year, the cheerleaders have to bundle up for 6 of them?).

People in this area are taking Houston WAY too lightly and the spread is outlandish (16 1/2 points????).

I wouldn't be surprised to see Pittsburgh, Seattle or GB win the SB (I'm not familiar enough with KC, Dallas, Atlanta this year to have much of an opinion on them (other than to say that any team that makes the NFL playoffs is a threat)). I would be surprised to see Houston win the SB, but not surprised to see them win this week.

[fernandito]

The one thing all teams who have defeated the Patriots in the post season have in common: relentless pash rush. Great pash rush like the one Houston currently possesses.

You have to make Brady feel uncomfortable in the pocket quickly and early if you're to have any kind of success.

And you don't have to go for gold every time. Hit him. Bump him. Push him. It adds up.

[Merlin1958]

Yeah, can't believe we didn't already have a thread like this tbh. Shame on us.

I'm a Packers fan, but I think the odds are stacked against us winning this SB. We're pretty much invincible on offense, but our defense has more holes than swiss cheese. The only reason we weren't down to the Giants early yesterday was because Beckham decided to come out with hands of stone and Eli overthrew a couple of passes.

That's not going to happen with surgeons like Brady or Roethlisberger.

None of those passes were overthrown. This is the NFL, you have to catch every single one of those passes. Brown doesn't drop those. That could have been a very different game if those balls were caught early.Not talking about the dropped passes; there were 1 or 2 sideline throws were Eli was just a hair off.

Our CBs got smoked in the first Quarter but they adjusted uncharacteristically well over the course of the game.




Sorry Jon Patriots all the way!

Then I guess you're pretty happy the Giants were eliminated, huh? lol lol

Giants or packers don't make no odds... NE win... I was about 8/9 years old when my Big brother said let's put a bet on the SB... ok I said(not knowing what it was) so the money went on NE and they won, meaning we won £75 each great win... since then I've been a fan of NE and the game, not many fans this side if the pond... I also support Tottenham Hotspur who are having a retractable pitch put in so we can host NFL games next season...

How much money did they make you when they got smoked by Eli Manning and the Giants in back to back attended SBs? :P

You really know how to kick a man when he's down


I apologize in advance, but given the recent Packers game I would hope you understand........................................ .......









18-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Still Servant]

Yeah, can't believe we didn't already have a thread like this tbh. Shame on us.

I'm a Packers fan, but I think the odds are stacked against us winning this SB. We're pretty much invincible on offense, but our defense has more holes than swiss cheese. The only reason we weren't down to the Giants early yesterday was because Beckham decided to come out with hands of stone and Eli overthrew a couple of passes.

That's not going to happen with surgeons like Brady or Roethlisberger.

None of those passes were overthrown. This is the NFL, you have to catch every single one of those passes. Brown doesn't drop those. That could have been a very different game if those balls were caught early.Not talking about the dropped passes; there were 1 or 2 sideline throws were Eli was just a hair off.

Our CBs got smoked in the first Quarter but they adjusted uncharacteristically well over the course of the game.




Sorry Jon Patriots all the way!

Then I guess you're pretty happy the Giants were eliminated, huh? lol lol

Giants or packers don't make no odds... NE win... I was about 8/9 years old when my Big brother said let's put a bet on the SB... ok I said(not knowing what it was) so the money went on NE and they won, meaning we won £75 each great win... since then I've been a fan of NE and the game, not many fans this side if the pond... I also support Tottenham Hotspur who are having a retractable pitch put in so we can host NFL games next season...

How much money did they make you when they got smoked by Eli Manning and the Giants in back to back attended SBs? :P

Says the guy whose team got beat both of those years by the same Giants team.

:evil:

[DoctorZaius]

I too am a Pats fan (and isn't it great being a fan of a cold weather team, when of the 8 games each year, the cheerleaders have to bundle up for 6 of them?).

People in this area are taking Houston WAY too lightly and the spread is outlandish (16 1/2 points????).

I wouldn't be surprised to see Pittsburgh, Seattle or GB win the SB (I'm not familiar enough with KC, Dallas, Atlanta this year to have much of an opinion on them (other than to say that any team that makes the NFL playoffs is a threat)). I would be surprised to see Houston win the SB, but not surprised to see them win this week.

Time for you to move out of state dude. Only way that Houston even makes it competitive is if Bill decides to take it easy on his protege. I will give up my season tickets if the Patriots lose this week. No way that Houston is coming to Foxboro and winning. Pittsburgh and KC, now we are talking a game.

[fernandito]

Poor Texans. No one is giving them a chance in hell :lol:

[St. Troy]

Houston has a damn good defense; very possible that the Pats max out at 20 points - if Osweiller plays like he did last week, they make a few plays, we have a game.

[Still Servant]

I too am a Pats fan (and isn't it great being a fan of a cold weather team, when of the 8 games each year, the cheerleaders have to bundle up for 6 of them?).

People in this area are taking Houston WAY too lightly and the spread is outlandish (16 1/2 points????).

I wouldn't be surprised to see Pittsburgh, Seattle or GB win the SB (I'm not familiar enough with KC, Dallas, Atlanta this year to have much of an opinion on them (other than to say that any team that makes the NFL playoffs is a threat)). I would be surprised to see Houston win the SB, but not surprised to see them win this week.

Time for you to move out of state dude. Only way that Houston even makes it competitive is if Bill decides to take it easy on his protege. I will give up my season tickets if the Patriots lose this week. No way that Houston is coming to Foxboro and winning. Pittsburgh and KC, now we are talking a game.

I agree, it doesn't look great, but as Feev noted above, the way to beat the Pats over the years is pash rush.

The only way I could see the Texans winning is if Clooney just takes over. He has the kind of talent to break your game. If he does, Texans have a chance.

[DoctorZaius]

I too am a Pats fan (and isn't it great being a fan of a cold weather team, when of the 8 games each year, the cheerleaders have to bundle up for 6 of them?).

People in this area are taking Houston WAY too lightly and the spread is outlandish (16 1/2 points????).

I wouldn't be surprised to see Pittsburgh, Seattle or GB win the SB (I'm not familiar enough with KC, Dallas, Atlanta this year to have much of an opinion on them (other than to say that any team that makes the NFL playoffs is a threat)). I would be surprised to see Houston win the SB, but not surprised to see them win this week.

Time for you to move out of state dude. Only way that Houston even makes it competitive is if Bill decides to take it easy on his protege. I will give up my season tickets if the Patriots lose this week. No way that Houston is coming to Foxboro and winning. Pittsburgh and KC, now we are talking a game.

I agree, it doesn't look great, but as Feev noted above, the way to beat the Pats over the years is pash rush.

The only way I could see the Texans winning is if Clooney just takes over. He has the kind of talent to break your game. If he does, Texans have a chance.

As in George "Clooney." It would have to be a movie - this is reality.

[Sai Sheb]

Guys I can't see Tex doing this, they just don't seem organized enough! Houston do have a good defense line but I don't see their attack as one to worry even a half steady defense! I see NE and GB final, very close but NE (with their persistent ways) winning by 7 in the last quarter...

[St. Troy]

Well, that (NE/Houston) did NOT feel like an 18 point win...

[Sai Sheb]

NE all the way...:nana:

[fernandito]

HOW BOUT THEM PACKERS BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[Still Servant]

HOW BOUT THEM PACKERS BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Good win. Made my day. Now I can relax for the rest of the playoffs.

[St. Troy]

GB is looking unbeatable.

[Bev Vincent]

Apparently ticket prices to the big game have dropped since Dallas lost.

[fernandito]

GB is looking unbeatable.
As long as Rodgers and the offense can put up a minimum of 30 points per game, we have a shot.


Apparently ticket prices to the big game have dropped since Dallas lost.
GB to the rest of the league: You're welcome.

[Merlin1958]

Green Bay Vs Pittsburgh is my prediction.

[fernandito]

Any of the potential match ups are tantalizing, but I would love to see Rogders vs Brady in a Superbowl.

The two greatest QB of this generation going head to head? Down!

[Merlin1958]

Any of the potential match ups are tantalizing, but I would love to see Rogders vs Brady in a Superbowl.

The two greatest QB of this generation going head to head? Down!


Unfortunately, I think the Pats would have the edge in that game. I hate, Brady but he's got a better defense right now than GB, no?

[Lookwhoitis]

Steelers are on the quest for 7, and we just might pull it off!

Defense was ballin' last week and our offense has the potential to be very explosive.

Beating the Pats it's in Gillette is a tall order but if we can get clicking on both O & D, I think we can do it.

My prediction is Steelers vs Falcons in the Superbowl with the Steelers winning in a shootout for the ages.

[St. Troy]

Steelers are on the quest for 7, and we just might pull it off!

Defense was ballin' last week and our offense has the potential to be very explosive.

Beating the Pats it's in Gillette is a tall order but if we can get clicking on both O & D, I think we can do it.

My prediction is Steelers vs Falcons in the Superbowl with the Steelers winning in a shootout for the ages.

This scenario is very much in play.

[Merlin1958]

Steelers are on the quest for 7, and we just might pull it off!

Defense was ballin' last week and our offense has the potential to be very explosive.

Beating the Pats it's in Gillette is a tall order but if we can get clicking on both O & D, I think we can do it.

My prediction is Steelers vs Falcons in the Superbowl with the Steelers winning in a shootout for the ages.

This scenario is very much in play.


Ireally like the Steelers chances to win it all. Not so sure about the Falcon's making it though. I'd be happy with any combination of the three possibles making to the big show. Guess who I don't like? lol lol

[DoctorZaius]

Steelers are on the quest for 7, and we just might pull it off!

Defense was ballin' last week and our offense has the potential to be very explosive.

Beating the Pats it's in Gillette is a tall order but if we can get clicking on both O & D, I think we can do it.

My prediction is Steelers vs Falcons in the Superbowl with the Steelers winning in a shootout for the ages.

This scenario is very much in play.


Ireally like the Steelers chances to win it all. Not so sure about the Falcon's making it though. I'd be happy with any combination of the three possibles making to the big show. Guess who I don't like? lol lol

Hmmmm - I wonder! Pats -vs- Atlanta is my prediction. Look for me in the corner of the end zone!

[St. Troy]

Merlin1958-

(Assuming you're NY-based) what's your pleasure - Jets or Giants?

[fernandito]

Any of the potential match ups are tantalizing, but I would love to see Rogders vs Brady in a Superbowl.

The two greatest QB of this generation going head to head? Down!


Unfortunately, I think the Pats would have the edge in that game. I hate, Brady but he's got a better defense right now than GB, no?

Yes, much better.

Our only hope against them would be to score lots of points, very early to make them as one dimensional as possible... although the thought of Brady slinging the ball around 40 times doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

[DoctorZaius]

Merlin1958-

(Assuming you're NY-based) what's your pleasure - Jets or Giants?

Could there realistically be an pleasure in being a Jets fan?

[fernandito]

Merlin1958-

(Assuming you're NY-based) what's your pleasure - Jets or Giants?

Could there realistically be an pleasure in being a Jets fan?

Only if you're a masochist.

[Merlin1958]

Merlin1958-

(Assuming you're NY-based) what's your pleasure - Jets or Giants?


The G-Men of course!!!!

[Jon]

If Big Ben and Mr. Brown can play the deep game often then they might beat Brady. Look for a Pittsburgh Hero heretofore unknown...Brown will get the double team...someone else will be open. If the Steelers cannot exploit this they will lose.

The Falcons have the tools but they will need a significant ground game.
If The Falcons don't burn the clock...Rodgers' experience and scrambling will kill them. Keep Rodgers off the field.

[Jon]

Well...the Falcons didn't need the run. LOL

[Sai Sheb]

Who would have thought it... NY in the final... again!:nana:

[St. Troy]

I'll take it.

[Merlin1958]

I can't believe that motherfucker did it again!!! The Falcon coach cost them the game calling for the pass that, Ryan got sacked on that took them out of FG range!!!!


Well, at least, Brady has never been able to beat the Giants and Eli in the big game!!!! lol


Edit: Edelman, had to channel, David Tyrese in order for the Pats to win. That catch was definitely on a par wit, Tyreses' catch!!!! Also, I'm not too proud to admit those bastards, Brady & Belichick do work magic and are the elite. Just not against the G-Men!!! lol

Patriots vs the rest of the league -5 SB wins. Patriots vs the Giants, 0-2 in SB wins!!!! lol lol

Still, gotta take your hat off to the, Pats!!!!

[Mattrick]

I thought Brady's last win cemented him as the GOAT, or at least was co-GOAT with Montana, and if there is still a debate after this...I might have to burn my house down. I've grown so tired of listening to people debate if Brady is the GOAT or not...it's official, love him or hate him, love the Pats or hate the Pats...Brady is the official, undisputed, GOAT. Some of those throws he made earlier in the game were so awful I couldn't believe it. That interception? Brutal. But he did was the elite do, and found a way to get his game back. Man was he just a machine in the last quarter+ of that game. Even when he was sacked three straight plays (spread over 2 possessions...think one came after the fumble recover), he came back. And that's what the GOAT does.

Fantastic game (though I missed most of the first half as I was barbecuing some delicious chicken wings and burgers). Great comeback which didn't surprise me at all.

Now, can we please never use the word's 'deflate' and 'gate' in conjunction ever again?

[Sai Sheb]

Great game, really thought we (NE) were gonna get slaughtered... but that final quarter was just superb. Surprised Brady got sacked as much as he though! Really tired now, 11 hours shift yesterday, home SB bed by 4 up at 7... I need sleep... go Pats go..

[St. Troy]

Brady may one day become the Sid Farkus of the NFL.

[Jon]

About midway through the third quarter I could see the Pat's offense figure out the ATL Defense. It was shortly after that I could see the Pats defense figure out the ATL offense. While it was a fabulous effort by Brady et al...I also saw brilliant coaching! That team keeps turning out quality players. Part of that is finding quality players and part is coaching a man to play at another level.

That missed extra point meant soooo much!

An excellent game. Several records fell and a few firsts. I think when we look back, we MAY find this to be the best Super Bowl in history.

[DoctorZaius]

Sweet! Sweet! Sweet! Can't wait to go to Gillette and see our 5th banner raised.

I'd love to play the Giants again, of course the Giants would have to get there again first.

[fernandito]

Not taking anything away from Brady and the Pats because that comeback was fucking insane, but...

BUT

It bugs the shit out of me that both the Seahawks and the Falcons made some ludicrously stupid decisions and play calling to essentially give those games away. Shanahan's ineptitude really surprised me yesterday considering how masterful he had been at play calling all season.

[Merlin1958]

Not taking anything away from Brady and the Pats because that comeback was fucking insane, but...

BUT

It bugs the shit out of me that both the Seahawks and the Falcons made some ludicrously stupid decisions and play calling to essentially give those games away. Shanahan's ineptitude really surprised me yesterday considering how masterful he had been at play calling all season.


I agree!!!

[Bev Vincent]

Apparently some subscribers to the Boston Globe received a copy of the newspaper that had the Patriots losing on the front page!

https://i.cbc.ca/1.3969471.1486416685!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/boston-globe-bitter-end-02062017.jpg

[DoctorZaius]

Not taking anything away from Brady and the Pats because that comeback was fucking insane, but...

BUT

It bugs the shit out of me that both the Seahawks and the Falcons made some ludicrously stupid decisions and play calling to essentially give those games away. Shanahan's ineptitude really surprised me yesterday considering how masterful he had been at play calling all season.


I agree!!!

I also agree, but let's not negate the many phenomenal plays the Patriots had to make as well. Edelman's catch (reminiscent of Tyreses') was just one in a slew of plays that the Patriots had to make to steal this one. And good old Pete forgoing the run two years ago in favor of a pass was just plain stupid, but it was Bulter's well-coached jumping the route, and making perhaps the best interception of all time, that sealed the deal. No one can truly give a game away, without another team being ready and willing to make plays on their own.

And sarcasm aside, I really would like another shot at the Giants, if only for the chance to get that monkey off our back.

[DoctorZaius]

Apparently some subscribers to the Boston Globe received a copy of the newspaper that had the Patriots losing on the front page!

https://i.cbc.ca/1.3969471.1486416685!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/boston-globe-bitter-end-02062017.jpg

Yeah, apparently some subscribers in Florida get what's called an early edition. Nothing like a little egg on the face of the local paper. A fun memento.

[Merlin1958]

Not taking anything away from Brady and the Pats because that comeback was fucking insane, but...

BUT

It bugs the shit out of me that both the Seahawks and the Falcons made some ludicrously stupid decisions and play calling to essentially give those games away. Shanahan's ineptitude really surprised me yesterday considering how masterful he had been at play calling all season.


I agree!!!

I also agree, but let's not negate the many phenomenal plays the Patriots had to make as well. Edelman's catch (reminiscent of Tyreses') was just one in a slew of plays that the Patriots had to make to steal this one. And good old Pete forgoing the run two years ago in favor of a pass was just plain stupid, but it was Bulter's well-coached jumping the route, and making perhaps the best interception of all time, that sealed the deal. No one can truly give a game away, without another team being ready and willing to make plays on their own.

And sarcasm aside, I really would like another shot at the Giants, if only for the chance to get that monkey off our back.

No argument here. Give the fucking Devil his due. NE outplayed them and maybe more importantly out-coached them. However, you don't want the Giants again. Trust me!!! lol lol


On a side note, I couldn't believe they went for a pass, when a couple of runs would have guaranteed them an 11 point spread and then were sacked out of FG range!!! Classic, Seahawk mistake!!! Regardless, the fuckers require me to take my hat off to them. They answered the call when it came!!

[St. Troy]

...both the Seahawks and the Falcons made some ludicrously stupid decisions and play calling to essentially give those games away.

I understand this point (and it's been made by many), but I do think the "stupidity" of the olaycalling has been greatly overstated, given that, in both cases, we're talking about VERY competent offenses - there was no reason to think Wilson would throw an interception, nor was there any reason to think Ryan would get run over badly - they were doing what they did well, the Pats made the plays. I don't say this to pat the Pats on the back; I just think there was no reason to expect self-doubt to suddenly creep into either team's mindset at those points of those games.

[Still Servant]

I thought Brady's last win cemented him as the GOAT, or at least was co-GOAT with Montana, and if there is still a debate after this...I might have to burn my house down.


Better grab a match because he's not the GOAT. You're right though, there shouldn't be a debate. Montana is the greatest. He won 4 Super Bowls and lost 0. He also never threw an interception in the SB. As for regular season. That goes to Peyton Manning. It took a monumental choke job by the Falcons and the worst playcall of all-time by Pete Carroll for Brady to win two of those rings.




I'd love to play the Giants again, of course the Giants would have to get there again first.

And you'd lose. Enjoy your victory. Don't worry about us. Maybe the Giants could play in the worst division in football for the next 15 years and they'd get to the SB more often.


Not taking anything away from Brady and the Pats because that comeback was fucking insane, but...

BUT

It bugs the shit out of me that both the Seahawks and the Falcons made some ludicrously stupid decisions and play calling to essentially give those games away. Shanahan's ineptitude really surprised me yesterday considering how masterful he had been at play calling all season.

You don't have a comeback like that without having a colossal collapse by the opposing team and that's exactly what happened. Let's put some of this on Mr. MVP too who took not 1 but 2 sacks that pushed the Falcons out of field goal range in that game.

[DoctorZaius]

I thought Brady's last win cemented him as the GOAT, or at least was co-GOAT with Montana, and if there is still a debate after this...I might have to burn my house down.


Better grab a match because he's not the GOAT. You're right though, there shouldn't be a debate. Montana is the greatest. He won 4 Super Bowls and lost 0. He also never threw an interception in the SB. As for regular season. That goes to Peyton Manning. It took a monumental choke job by the Falcons and the worst playcall of all-time by Pete Carroll for Brady to win two of those rings.




I'd love to play the Giants again, of course the Giants would have to get there again first.

And you'd lose. Enjoy your victory. Don't worry about us. Maybe the Giants could play in the worst division in football for the next 15 years and they'd get to the SB more often.


Not taking anything away from Brady and the Pats because that comeback was fucking insane, but...

BUT

It bugs the shit out of me that both the Seahawks and the Falcons made some ludicrously stupid decisions and play calling to essentially give those games away. Shanahan's ineptitude really surprised me yesterday considering how masterful he had been at play calling all season.

You don't have a comeback like that without having a colossal collapse by the opposing team and that's exactly what happened. Let's put some of this on Mr. MVP too who took not 1 but 2 sacks that pushed the Falcons out of field goal range in that game.

Funny how you totally ignore the choke by the Bengals in 88. Did Montana earn that one? The 4-0 argument is another loser's argument. Perhaps if Montana could have gotten to as many Super Bowls as Brady then we might have a better barometer. Eli too (pun intended). Come to think of it, the best regular season QB is another loser argument. No one remembers the ones who don't win. Just ask Dan Marino, one of the best regular season QBs.

As for your AFC argument, well that's a myopic one as well. When the playoffs come around, the competition has been consistently better in the AFC. Since 2001 the AFC holds an 11-6 record in Super Bowls. Hmmm, I wonder who has had the tougher road to the Super Bowl? The Patriots, hands down.

Believe me, I don't worry about teams that don't make the playoffs!

[Still Servant]

The Giants made the playoffs last year.

I'm not trying to start an argument. I respect what Brady and the Pats have done over the years. It was a great comeback and every Pats fan should be proud. There's just no reason to bring up the Giants.

Also, I'm not the only one that feels there's still a debate about who the greatest QB is. You may not like my criteria, but your criteria seems to be that he's won 5 times, so he's automatically the best. I don't agree with that assessment.

The other fact is that if it wasn't for the win against the Seahawks, the Pats would have gone more than a decade without a SB win.

Even the most die-hard Pats fan will admit that they got really fortunate. Go back and look at Brady on the sideline before that play. He knew they were done. I'm still convinced the Pats were going to let the Seahawks score there, which is what the Patriots did in the Super Bowl a few years prior when they let Bradshaw score.

Again, what they've done is amazing and you can't take it away, but you have to admit they've been in a fairly week division over the years. That's the way it is and I get.

I also don't think the Bengals collapse was quite as bad as the Falcons collapse.

Lastly, years from now when we are all old and gray and we look back at the Brady Belichick era, there will be a big 2 in the L column that came courtesy of one team. The New York Football Giants. There's nothing you or any other Patriots fan can say or do to take that away.

[DoctorZaius]

The Giants made the playoffs last year.

I'm not trying to start an argument. I respect what Brady and the Pats have done over the years. It was a great comeback and every Pats fan should be proud. There's just no reason to bring up the Giants.

Also, I'm not the only one that feels there's still a debate about who the greatest QB is. You may not like my criteria, but your criteria seems to be that he's won 5 times, so he's automatically the best. I don't agree with that assessment.

The other fact is that if it wasn't for the win against the Seahawks, the Pats would have gone more than a decade without a SB win.

Even the most die-hard Pats fan will admit that they got really fortunate. Go back and look at Brady on the sideline before that play. He knew they were done. I'm still convinced the Pats were going to let the Seahawks score there, which is what the Patriots did in the Super Bowl a few years prior when they let Bradshaw score.

Again, what they've done is amazing and you can't take it away, but you have to admit they've been in a fairly week division over the years. That's the way it is and I get.

I also don't think the Bengals collapse was quite as bad as the Falcons collapse.

Lastly, years from now when we are all old and gray and we look back at the Brady Belichick era, there will be a big 2 in the L column that came courtesy of one team. The New York Football Giants. There's nothing you or any other Patriots fan can say or do to take that away.

No argument to be had. Just sports talk. It's all in good fun. We all should be passionate about our teams.

I just don't see the argument against best of all time. My criteria is well beyond the number of wins. The records, the longevity of success, the Super Bowl appearances, the AFC championship appearances (weak division stronger conference as evidenced by AFC Super Bowl dominance), etc. The evidence is overwhelming in my admittedly biased opinion. The non salary cap era Montana played in allowed for a juggernaut to remain in tact, while the Patriots have had to rebuild over and over. Half the team is new when compared to only two years ago.

Ask for the Giants, I bring them in because I would like to get another shot at them, just like in the 80s, when as an avid Celtics fan I always wanted the Sixers, Pistons, and Lakers. Rivalries make sports more interesting.

[fernandito]

Yeah. I detest the Patriots as a sports fan, but man.. it gets harder and harder to debate against Brady being the goat, fortunate wins and all. I mean this guy has put up fucking monster points and wins against some of the best teams and QBs in modern football. I think Brady has been lucky enough to be in a system that caters to his strengths spearheaded by what is arguably the greatest coach in the history of the NFL, Belichick.

If my boy Rodgers had a system and supporting cast as good as the Patriots have been able to build around Brady, he'd have at least 3 rings by now.

[Still Servant]

Yeah. I detest the Patriots as a sports fan, but man.. it gets harder and harder to debate against Brady being the goat, fortunate wins and all. I mean this guy has put up fucking monster points and wins against some of the best teams and QBs in modern football. I think Brady has been lucky enough to be in a system that caters to his strengths spearheaded by what is arguably the greatest coach in the history of the NFL, Belichick.

If my boy Rodgers had a system and supporting cast as good as the Patriots have been able to build around Brady, he'd have at least 3 rings by now.
Monster points? Most of the Super Bowls he's played in have been low scoring. The undefeated Pats team came into the SB as one of the greatest offensive teams of all-time. They scored 14 points against the Giants.

It's Montana that had the lopsided wins after his first Super Bowl.

[Mattrick]

Mike, there is no debate. Brady was the goat three years ago, and two years ago, and last year, and this year, and every year going forward. Accept it. He is THE BEST. Sure Montana lost zero Superbowls and through zero interceptions in them, but there is a chance Brady will make it to twice as many superbowls...he's made it to seven, and won 5. He won his first 10 playoff games, winning three Super Bowls in the process. 14 division titles. 11 conference championship games. 7 super bowl appearances. 5 super bowl wins. 1 perfect regular season. And if you want to talk about a lack of interceptions being a mark of greatness....look at these records Brady holds:

Most consecutive passes attempted, none intercepted: 358, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2010–2011
Most consecutive passes attempted, none intercepted, away: 293, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), Dec. 27, 2015–Present
Most games with 200+ yards passing and no interceptions, career: 102, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.
Most games with 250+ yards passing and no interceptions, career: 75, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016
Most games with 350+ yards passing and no interceptions, career: 21, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016
Most games with 200+ yards passing and no interceptions, season: 11, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2012; Aaron Rodgers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Rodgers) 2014
Most games with 250+ yards passing and no interceptions, season: 10, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007[363] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-363)
Most games with 300+ yards passing and no interceptions, season: 8, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007; Peyton Manning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyton_Manning), 2013[364] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-364)
Most games with 350+ yards passing and no interceptions, season: 6, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007[365] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-365)
Most consecutive games with 1+ touchdown passes and no interceptions: 11, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2010[368] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-368)
Most consecutive games with 2+ touchdown passes and no interceptions: 9, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2010[369] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-369)
Most consecutive games with 5+ touchdown passes and no interceptions; 2, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2007; Ben Roethlisberger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger), 2014[372] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-372)
Most games with 1+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 116, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[374] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-374)
Most games with 2+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 90, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[375] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-375)
Most games with 3+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 51, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001-2016; Peyton Manning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyton_Manning), 1998–2015.[376] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-376)
Most games with 4+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 21, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[377] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-377)
Most games with 1+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 14, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2010[381] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-381)
Most games with 2+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 11, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2010, Aaron Rodgers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Rodgers) 2014[382] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-382)
Most games with 3+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 8, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007, Aaron Rodgers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Rodgers) 2014[383] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-383)
Most games with 5+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 3, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007[385] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-385)
Most games with 20+ completions and no interceptions, career: 85, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[388] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-388)
Most games with 20+ completions and no interceptions, season: 10, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2007, 2010[390] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-390)
Most games with 30+ completions and no interceptions, season: 5, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007, Drew Brees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees) 2011, 2015[391] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-391)
Most games with 30+ pass attempts and no interceptions, career: 87, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[392] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-392)
Most games with 40+ pass attempts and no interceptions, career: 27, Drew Brees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees), 2002–2016; Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[393] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-393)
Most games with 50+ pass attempts and no interceptions, career: 8, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[394] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-394)
Most games with 30+ pass attempts and no interceptions, season: 10, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2012[395] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-395)
Best touchdown pass–interception differential, career: +304 (456 TDs, 152 INTs), Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.
Best touchdown pass–interception ratio, season: 14:1 (28 TDs, 2 INTs), Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2016 (minimum 12 TD passes)
Best passing yards–interception ratio, season: 1,777:1 (3,554 yards, 2 INTs), Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2016 (minimum 2,000 passing yards).

[Joe315]

Would you say Brady is the best QB ever or best football player ever? I'd give him the QB title but the positions are to varied to say any one player is the best football player of all time.

[fernandito]

Yeah. I detest the Patriots as a sports fan, but man.. it gets harder and harder to debate against Brady being the goat, fortunate wins and all. I mean this guy has put up fucking monster points and wins against some of the best teams and QBs in modern football. I think Brady has been lucky enough to be in a system that caters to his strengths spearheaded by what is arguably the greatest coach in the history of the NFL, Belichick.

If my boy Rodgers had a system and supporting cast as good as the Patriots have been able to build around Brady, he'd have at least 3 rings by now.
Monster points? Most of the Super Bowls he's played in have been low scoring. The undefeated Pats team came into the SB as one of the greatest offensive teams of all-time. They scored 14 points against the Giants.

It's Montana that had the lopsided wins after his first Super Bowl.

Monster points across his career, not just Super Bowl wins. And Montana played with up to 4 Hall of Famers during his lifetime. Brady only had Moss for a brief time.

[fernandito]

Would you say Brady is the best QB ever or best football player ever? I'd give him the QB title but the positions are to varied to say any one player is the best football player of all time.

That's tricky. It all depends how we're qualifying this. Do you mean stats wise? Physically gifted?

[Mattrick]

And Moss ain't no Jerry Rice.

[Merlin1958]

Mike, there is no debate. Brady was the goat three years ago, and two years ago, and last year, and this year, and every year going forward. Accept it. He is THE BEST. Sure Montana lost zero Superbowls and through zero interceptions in them, but there is a chance Brady will make it to twice as many superbowls...he's made it to seven, and won 5. He won his first 10 playoff games, winning three Super Bowls in the process. 14 division titles. 11 conference championship games. 7 super bowl appearances. 5 super bowl wins. 1 perfect regular season. And if you want to talk about a lack of interceptions being a mark of greatness....look at these records Brady holds:

Most consecutive passes attempted, none intercepted: 358, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2010–2011
Most consecutive passes attempted, none intercepted, away: 293, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), Dec. 27, 2015–Present
Most games with 200+ yards passing and no interceptions, career: 102, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.
Most games with 250+ yards passing and no interceptions, career: 75, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016
Most games with 350+ yards passing and no interceptions, career: 21, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016
Most games with 200+ yards passing and no interceptions, season: 11, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2012; Aaron Rodgers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Rodgers) 2014
Most games with 250+ yards passing and no interceptions, season: 10, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007[363] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-363)
Most games with 300+ yards passing and no interceptions, season: 8, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007; Peyton Manning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyton_Manning), 2013[364] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-364)
Most games with 350+ yards passing and no interceptions, season: 6, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007[365] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-365)
Most consecutive games with 1+ touchdown passes and no interceptions: 11, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2010[368] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-368)
Most consecutive games with 2+ touchdown passes and no interceptions: 9, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2010[369] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-369)
Most consecutive games with 5+ touchdown passes and no interceptions; 2, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2007; Ben Roethlisberger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger), 2014[372] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-372)
Most games with 1+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 116, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[374] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-374)
Most games with 2+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 90, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[375] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-375)
Most games with 3+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 51, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001-2016; Peyton Manning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyton_Manning), 1998–2015.[376] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-376)
Most games with 4+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, career: 21, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[377] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-377)
Most games with 1+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 14, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2010[381] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-381)
Most games with 2+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 11, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2010, Aaron Rodgers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Rodgers) 2014[382] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-382)
Most games with 3+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 8, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007, Aaron Rodgers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Rodgers) 2014[383] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-383)
Most games with 5+ touchdown passes and no interceptions, season: 3, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007[385] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-385)
Most games with 20+ completions and no interceptions, career: 85, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[388] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-388)
Most games with 20+ completions and no interceptions, season: 10, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2007, 2010[390] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-390)
Most games with 30+ completions and no interceptions, season: 5, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2007, Drew Brees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees) 2011, 2015[391] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-391)
Most games with 30+ pass attempts and no interceptions, career: 87, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[392] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-392)
Most games with 40+ pass attempts and no interceptions, career: 27, Drew Brees (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees), 2002–2016; Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[393] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-393)
Most games with 50+ pass attempts and no interceptions, career: 8, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.[394] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-394)
Most games with 30+ pass attempts and no interceptions, season: 10, Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) 2012[395] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_%28indivi dual%29#cite_note-395)
Best touchdown pass–interception differential, career: +304 (456 TDs, 152 INTs), Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2001–2016.
Best touchdown pass–interception ratio, season: 14:1 (28 TDs, 2 INTs), Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2016 (minimum 12 TD passes)
Best passing yards–interception ratio, season: 1,777:1 (3,554 yards, 2 INTs), Tom Brady (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady), 2016 (minimum 2,000 passing yards).


It's hard to compare generations and say that one man is the GOAT. Brady belongs (Arrggghhh) in the conversation along with the likes of, Montana, Bradshaw etc. Don't forget, and I'm not taking anything from Brady, but he had, Belichick who I think you'd have to agree tops the GOAT list for coaches (fucker!!! lol).

[Joe315]

Would you say Brady is the best QB ever or best football player ever? I'd give him the QB title but the positions are to varied to say any one player is the best football player of all time.

That's tricky. It all depends how we're qualifying this. Do you mean stats wise? Physically gifted?

There is always talk with every sport on who is the best ever. I would say Brady is the best ever QB to play the game. But there are some calling him the greatest footballer ever. I guess my point is that it is hard to qualify the best player because of the variations in the positions. And even the era in which someone played. Brown vs Peyton vs Sanders; Rice vs Moss; Butkus vs LT; etc.

[Mattrick]

Bill, I think Brady and Belichick just compliment each other very nice. Brady has always been more of a thinking quarterback. It is hard to compare different eras, not just in terms of rules, but also in terms of competition. That is the one difference between LeBron and MJ...there was far more competition in the NBA during MJ's time than in LeBrons.

[Merlin1958]

Bill, I think Brady and Belichick just compliment each other very nice. Brady has always been more of a thinking quarterback. It is hard to compare different eras, not just in terms of rules, but also in terms of competition. That is the one difference between LeBron and MJ...there was far more competition in the NBA during MJ's time than in LeBrons.

Yeah, I agree regarding generations. Concerning, Brady/Belicheck I submit that Belicheck could have had similar success w/o, Brady but not so much the other way around. However, He is certainly one of the greats and will fuel endless bar room discussion for sure!!!! lol It's always tough to compare era's as the game(s) are constantly changing with the times. Could, Bradshaw have as much success as, Brady and vice versus if they swapped generations? Who knows?

[Still Servant]

Matt, there is most certainly still a debate. Stop saying there isn't. You like posting stats, so look up Peyton Vs. Brady head-to-head playoff record and come back to me.

The argument that Brady never played with anybody doesn't fly with me either. Welker was a great receiver and so is Edelman. He's also played with the greatest TE of all-time.

Again, I know you can't take it away, but it took a terrible call and an interception by Butler to win Brady a Super Bowl. At the end of the day, that goes to him, but without Butler and the worst play call of all-time, Brady has 3 Super Bowl losses. Then there is the terrible play calling that opened the door for the greatest comeback of all-time.

Brady looked dreadful for most of SB 51. Not to mention he throws a pick 6. Getting to a bunch of Super Bowls does not mean he's the best.

Also, Brady should hold a lot of records. He's played forever and in an era where QBs throw the ball more. On top of that, throwing to the running back is a huge part of his game. He threw 20 passes to the running backs in the Super Bowl and one to the TE that was a screen from the line of scrimmage. Those are very high percentage throws and over a 100 receiving yards to the RBs.

Again, he's one of the greatest of all-time, but the fact that you're saying that there's no debate is, quite frankly, insulting. If you're trolling, just stop. I'm not one of those dolts you like to prey on.

[Merlin1958]

Matt, there is most certainly still a debate. Stop saying there isn't. You like posting stats, so look up Peyton Vs. Brady head-to-head playoff record and come back to me.

The argument that Brady never played with anybody doesn't fly with me either. Welker was a great receiver and so is Edelman. He's also played with the greatest TE of all-time.

Again, I know you can't take it away, but it took a terrible call and an interception by Butler to win Brady a Super Bowl. At the end of the day, that goes to him, but without Butler and the worst play call of all-time, Brady has 3 Super Bowl losses. Then there is the terrible play calling that opened the door for the greatest comeback of all-time.

Brady looked dreadful for most of SB 51. Not to mention he throws a pick 6. Getting to a bunch of Super Bowls does not mean he's the best.

Also, Brady should hold a lot of records. He's played forever and in an era where QBs throw the ball more. On top of that, throwing to the running back is a huge part of his game. He threw 20 passes to the running backs in the Super Bowl and one to the TE that was a screen from the line of scrimmage. Those are very high percentage throws and over a 100 receiving yards to the RBs.

Again, he's one of the greatest of all-time, but the fact that you're saying that there's no debate is, quite frankly, insulting. If you're trolling, just stop. I'm not one of those dolts you like to prey on.


Oooh, gotta say that was a "Bitch Slap", Matts!!! lol Seriously, I don't think you can really name a GOAT in any team sport with the possible exception of, Babe Ruth. That man saved MLB and was just light years beyond his time. GOAT is a really tricky title IMHO. You can have members, but not a singularity I believe.

[Still Servant]

He doesn't want to have a discussion ever. He just wants to win the discussion.

While I'm here. Regular season NFL MVP awards:

Peyton Manning: 5
Tom Brady: 2

[Merlin1958]

He doesn't want to have a discussion ever. He just wants to win the discussion.

While I'm here. Regular season NFL MVP awards:

Peyton Manning: 5
Tom Brady: 2


For the record guys, The Yankee's are the GFOAT!!!! No other comes close to their dominance of a sport. :YYY::wtf:

[DoctorZaius]

I partially agree with Merlin - not about the "bitch slap." It's is a waste of time to have a GOAT argument for all of football. The best football player of all time is ridiculously difficult, I would argue impossible, to quantify. Football is the ultimate team sport. The positions are just too highly specialized. There are interesting discussions to be had on WR-GOAT, TE-GOAT, etc. I suppose that you could have a GOAT argument on the NBA because of the reduced numbers of players that really impact a game, maybe even hockey, but baseball? No way - even for the Babe!

I am right with Matt that there is no argument regarding Brady as the QB-GOAT. I find it amusing that Gonk has been elevated to the "greatest tight end of all time" when he's being used to devalue Brady's career - so quick to dismiss Witten, Gonzalez, Gates, Sharpe, Ditka, Winslow, Bavaro, etc.? Gronk's career has not been long enough to judge, and the amount of time he spends on the DL each year limits his value. No one wants to devalue Montana for having Rice, or Manning for having Harrison. As for the regular season MVP numbers, give me a break. That's like the participation trophy we hand out in little league. This is about winning the SB, plain and simple. Head-To-Head is not a great barometer in football either because Manning and Brady never truly played against each other; they played against a defense. Do you really think that Manning beat Brady last year in the playoffs? It was one of the best defenses of all time that won that game, and same goes for the super bowl. Manning was along for the ride last year - do we take that super bowl off his stats? Brock could have gone down as the next Trent Dilfer had he been given the chance.

[Mattrick]

Matt, there is most certainly still a debate. Stop saying there isn't. You like posting stats, so look up Peyton Vs. Brady head-to-head playoff record and come back to me.

The argument that Brady never played with anybody doesn't fly with me either. Welker was a great receiver and so is Edelman. He's also played with the greatest TE of all-time.

Again, I know you can't take it away, but it took a terrible call and an interception by Butler to win Brady a Super Bowl. At the end of the day, that goes to him, but without Butler and the worst play call of all-time, Brady has 3 Super Bowl losses. Then there is the terrible play calling that opened the door for the greatest comeback of all-time.

Brady looked dreadful for most of SB 51. Not to mention he throws a pick 6. Getting to a bunch of Super Bowls does not mean he's the best.

Also, Brady should hold a lot of records. He's played forever and in an era where QBs throw the ball more. On top of that, throwing to the running back is a huge part of his game. He threw 20 passes to the running backs in the Super Bowl and one to the TE that was a screen from the line of scrimmage. Those are very high percentage throws and over a 100 receiving yards to the RBs.

Again, he's one of the greatest of all-time, but the fact that you're saying that there's no debate is, quite frankly, insulting. If you're trolling, just stop. I'm not one of those dolts you like to prey on.

The difference between my argument and yours is your using minutiae stats like 'Brady versus Manning', and stuff like blown calls and bad play calls (subjective) as reasons. For the past few years there has been a debate in sports talk and many sports people said Brady needed another championship to officially be the GOAT. Now he has it. I know the sports people in my area have all said he's the GOAT. I bet if you looked as hard for reasons he's the GOAT instead of reasons to detract from him being the GOAT, you'd accept it. What if Brady wins another one? Are you still going to find reasons to deny it? I'm not trolling, I've thought Brady was the GOAT for a few years now, and knew he was among the greatest for years before that, and now it's cemented. Most people have accepted it.

And yeah, throwing to the RB and TE is a big part of Brady's game. And his game is winning. Season after Season.

You want to compare Brady and Manning?

Brady's playoff record = 25 wins, 9 losses, .735%
Manning's playoff record = 14 wins, 13 losses, .519%

9 years Manning didn't get a win in the playoffs. He lost his first three playoff games. Brady won his first ten and only failed to win a playoff game in 2 seasons, '09 and '10.

Manning was also #1 overall pick and people expected him to be great. Brady was selected in the 6th round and only got a chance due to a Bledsoe injury. And he clobbered Manning and the Colts in his first career start. Not sure why you wanted me to look up Peyton vs. Brady for. Brady won his first six straight games against Peyton and holds a regular season record against him of 11-6, and a playoff record of 2-3, so all in all it's Brady 13, Peyton 9. Brady's team outscored Peyton's teams 497-410. Brady wins again!

Maybe Peyton has beaten Brady 1 extra time in the post season. That doesn't change the fact Manning is a habitual loser in the playoffs, with barely a winning record, overall has a losing record against Brady, and was carried to his second super bowl title by an incredible defense.

Sure, Brady looked terrible for most of SB51, but he made adjustments, didn't give up, led his team, proving he's so great, he can win a Super Bowl in 20 mins.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwOzfBdqrd4

[Still Servant]

You're missing my point entirely. I don't even care if you think he's the GOAT. The fact that you are denying me the argument is what pisses me off. First of all, I don't care about your area. Canada is hardly the hub of football talk. Come where I am, the heart of Patriots country, and the debate is alive and well.

There are NFL experts and ex-players that would love to argue with you. All I'm saying is you can't say there's no debate. That takes all the fun out of sports talk.

You should know this more than anybody, Matt. You debate everything. I could sit here and say that the New York Yankees are the greatest baseball franchise of all-time and you will still argue why I'm wrong and that the Blue Jays are clearly the greatest franchise of all-time.

Your vote is for Brady, and I respect that, just don't say there's no debating it.

[fernandito]

So much butt fury flying around lmao.

I don't know if there's anything in sports that's inarguable, but if there is - Brady being the best QB of all time is almost one of those things. Beyond the stats, beyond the 830.33030% percentages.. its the sheer consistency and sense of inevitability that went hand in hand with those wins. If it was any other quarterback - and I mean ANY other quarterback - that went down 20-3 at half time, I would have said 'stick a fucking fork in them'. But even when the world seemed to crumbling around them, in the back of my mind I knew "... this is Brady."

To will your team back from the brink of annihilation takes balls. I myself am a fierce competitor, I hate losing even playing friendly games among family members and co workers, hell I almost got into a fight with my brother during a game because he wasn't giving it 100%.. so I have a tremendous amount of respect for Brady as a competitor whose fire never goes out.

[Still Servant]

So much butt fury flying around lmao.

I don't know if there's anything in sports that's inarguable, but if there is - Brady being the best QB of all time is almost one of those things. Beyond the stats, beyond the 830.33030% percentages.. its the sheer consistency and sense of inevitability that went hand in hand with those wins. If it was any other quarterback - and I mean ANY other quarterback - that went down 20-3 at half time, I would have said 'stick a fucking fork in them'. But even when the world seemed to crumbling around them, in the back of my mind I knew "... this is Brady."

To will your team back from the brink of annihilation takes balls. I myself am a fierce competitor, I hate losing even playing friendly games among family members and co workers, hell I almost got into a fight with my brother during a game because he wasn't giving it 100%.. so I have a tremendous amount of respect for Brady as a competitor whose fire never goes out.

Agreed. But you have to agree that for a QB to have a comeback like that he needs help. He got that help by a series of terrible play calls by the Falcons. You guys are all smart football fans. You're telling me you agree with the Falcons passing the ball on 3rd and 1 not once but twice while in field goal range?

Actually, I take back everything I said before. You guys are right, Brady is the best QB of all-time, Bill Belichick is the greatest head coach of all-time (sorry Lombardi) and the Pats are the greatest franchise of all-time (sorry Steelers and Cowboys).

This should have dawned on me earlier. Sorry for being a thickhead. This makes the fact that the New York Giants were able to beat these inhumans in the Super Bowl two times even more amazing. Honestly, I've never been more proud of my team than at this very moment. Thank you guys.

[St. Troy]

As a Pats fan, I don't worry too much about the GOAT opinions; I just consider myself fortunate that we've seen enough winning for it to be discussed. I am curious as to how the last 17 years would've played out with Joe Flacco or someone like that, who was good, possibly underrated, and who didn't implode at the first sign of intelligent defense.

I would say that this:
.

...for a QB to have a comeback like that he needs help. He got that help by a series of terrible play calls by the Falcons.

...sounds like someone is ignoring a pretty good (note: I'm not burdening the argument with GOAT stuff) Pats defense that apparently made some effective adjustments. And to restate a point I made earlier, the Falcons didn't know they were fighting for the game until it was very late indeed: they just played, but got outplayed.

[Mattrick]

You're missing my point entirely. I don't even care if you think he's the GOAT. The fact that you are denying me the argument is what pisses me off. First of all, I don't care about your area. Canada is hardly the hub of football talk. Come where I am, the heart of Patriots country, and the debate is alive and well.

I'm not denying you your argument. But I'm sick of hearing this talk about Current Player vs New Player and who is better. As a Canadian I've been listening to that for 13 years with Sidney Crosby vs. Gretzky (and now again with Connor McDavid), I've been hearing it about Brady vs. Montana, and with LeBron and Jordan, and the talk is even more in depth with baseball because so many current/recently retired players have the PED shroud around them. I just want this football QB one to be done. But people just have to find more reasons to discount it. Okay, maybe the Falcons made a few bad calls. Guess the entire season Brady where killed it, throwing only 2 interceptions, and coming back from the suspension to a record of 14-1 (including playoffs), means absolutely nothing and his unprecedented comeback win is diminished because he only threw short passes, the falcons made some bad calls, and he threw a pick6 during a bad half. That's not an argument.


There are NFL experts and ex-players that would love to argue with you. All I'm saying is you can't say there's no debate. That takes all the fun out of sports talk.Let them argue. I can't believe they're not bored of it yet! Us Toronto sports fans (and believe me, football is huge in Canada, we have our own league dontcha know?) have stopped the conversation, which is fantastic.


You should know this more than anybody, Matt. You debate everything. I could sit here and say that the New York Yankees are the greatest baseball franchise of all-time and you will still argue why I'm wrong and that the Blue Jays are clearly the greatest franchise of all-time.Yeah, I love to debate things, but there couldn't even be a way of arguing for the Jays to be the greatest franchise. Maybe they'd be in the conversation as best team in 93', but best franchise? Yankees have 27 championships with 40 appearances? But the Jays have never lost in the World Series, neither have The Marlins. The Yankees have lost 13 times! Surely we're better because we've lost less times! :P


Your vote is for Brady, and I respect that, just don't say there's no debating it.

I'm not saying there is no debating it, I'm saying when the debates are coming down to subjective opinions about play callings, finding ways to diminish the accomplishment by redistributing credit to other parts of the team which equally deserve their credit, and the difference between rules then and now, there isn't much argument to be had. We're talking having an 'in my day' discussion mixed with coulda woulda shoulda. And that just isn't fun at all.

[Still Servant]

You already won! Giants beat the greatest QB to walk the Earth twice. It's a glorious thing.

St. Troy. Some of the play calling in the 2nd half of that game was atrocious. The Pats could not stop the Falcons run game in the first half. What do they do in the second half? They stop running the ball as much! They had a chance for a field goal and decided to pass on 3rd and 1 which led to a sack.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, whenever a team in any sport has a collapse it means the team that collapsed contributed in some way. The Pats still had to take advantage of the situation and boy did they. The fact remains, it takes two to tango.

[St. Troy]

...whenever a team in any sport has a collapse it means the team that collapsed contributed in some way.

This is where I disagree: I would say comebacks are mainly an outlier of a positive type (one team increases their efficiency of execution), not a negative one (the other team suddenly becoming incompetent/foolish); explaining away such positive outliers by assuming that every mid-game team improvement (NE) is necessarily accompanied and amplified by an equal but opposite movement in the other team (as if in-game total football coaching IQ is a zero-sum system) is basically to insist on a "no one is that good" narrative, when, in the world of sports, for portions of games, many players/have temporarily become "that good."

The thing is, no one (not the Falcons, not the experts in the booth, not the bookies, and certainly not all the people who jumped in to retroactively find fault with the Falcons' play calling) had ANY idea there would be any problem with those plays until they didn't work. Haven't we learned anything since our early days as fans, when we yelled out "YOU SHOULD'VE RUN IT!" whenever a late-game pass play didn't work and vice versa?

I'm sure this must sound like I'm trying to make sure NE gets the credit, but I actually don't care about that (I'm just happy with the wins); I just think too much shit gets shoveled on the Seattle and Atlanta coaching staffs as if they really didn't know what they were doing, when in fact they were pretty damn good staffs.

...none of which is to say that I'm trying to talk you personally out of your position (which is a common one, as wrong as it seems to me); I just wanted to fully explain mine, especially since your opinion is such a widespread one.

[Still Servant]

Retroactive? I was yelling for them to run the ball on 3 and 1 when they were in field goal range. It's the safe play.

Let me ask you something. Let's make believe you are a Seahawks fan. They pass the ball instead of running it with Lynch. What do you say? Are you cool with that as a fan? "Oh well. Our coaches know best. There's always next year." Honestly, I'd love to know.

The same goes for Atlanta. Let's make believe you're a Falcons. You're not yelling for them to run the ball in that situation? You're not screaming for Ryan to throw the ball away instead of taking two sacks while in field goal range? If not you're the best fan ever.

All I'm saying is you have to put some of this on the Falcons. Even 10%. I never thought the game was over so while watching and playing along I always had protecting the lead as a priority.

[St. Troy]

Retroactive? I was yelling for them to run the ball on 3 and 1 when they were in field goal range. It's the safe play.

Sure, it's the safe play - on most 3rd and 1s, it's the play that most look for - including the defense. But as anyone who has ever watched a decent offensive team knows, sometimes the stacking on the line that goes on opens other things up - like a decent pass play that may effectively end or break open the game with a TD.

The play you wanted them to run wouldn't have been dumb at all - but there was no reason to think that any play this team, which scored SO much more than any other team this season, ran would actually be a bad idea. You say you were yelling for them to run the ball - fine. But this isn't about league completion averages and similar stat nonsense - this is about what this offensive unit was capable of, which was quite a bit.


Let's make believe you are a Seahawks fan. They pass the ball instead of running it with Lynch. What do you say?

First I'd say "what the hell just happened?" After viewing the replay I'd say "how the hell did Butler get there in time?" But since my QB is fine and my receivers can play, and since there were clock and down management issues that favored a pass play, it would not have occurred to me to blindly think that, since the play they ran didn't work, the one they didn't run would have worked (the "8 year old fan" logic behind much of the criticism of Atlanta). Pete Carroll used to be a coach in NE; I remember him, and I know he ain't the best coach in the league - but he didn't do shit wrong here. He came within a whisker of winning. No blame to go around.


Let's make believe you're a Falcons. You're not yelling for them to run the ball in that situation? You're not screaming for Ryan to throw the ball away instead of taking two sacks while in field goal range?

In that case, I'm screaming for them to make a play of any kind - and knowing the superhuman receivers (tall, fast, strong) they have, I'm not exactly thinking of running a lesser team's offensive sets. Had one more pass found its target at the right time, this "Atlanta playcalled stupidly" narrative dissolves amidst plans for a parade, and the dominant narrative would be how over the hill Brady and Belichick are.


...I always had protecting the lead as a priority.

Well, there's protecting the lead, and then there's protecting the lead. Stopping NE one time would have won the game - but so would have scoring one more time. Clearly, that's what Atlanta was thinking of doing, and now, that's their regret - "had we just scored one more time, we would have won." Scoring was something they'd done all year, without advice from any of us. They knew what they were doing - and they still got beat. It happens. Sometimes the outcome is the result of two good teams who both know what they were doing - the loser isn't always a bunch of bums.

[Still Servant]

First I'd say "what the hell just happened?" After viewing the replay I'd say "how the hell did Butler get there in time?" But since my QB is fine and my receivers can play, and since there were clock and down management issues that favored a pass play, it would not have occurred to me to blindly think that, since the play they ran didn't work, the one they didn't run would have worked (the "8 year old fan" logic behind much of the criticism of Atlanta). Pete Carroll used to be a coach in NE; I remember him, and I know he ain't the best coach in the league - but he didn't do shit wrong here. He came within a whisker of winning. No blame to go around.

I was at a Super Bowl party with 22 people. Everyone of them thought Carroll should have run the ball in that spot. I still think the Pats would have let them score too. Just like they did with the Giants and Bradshaw. Go back and watch NFL films of that game. There is a Pats defensive player that says in the huddle, "We have to let them score here." The situation was almost identical. BB was going to let them score there. I will believe that until the day I die. Also, Google it, it's considered one of the worst play calls ever. I'm not making this up.



Well, there's protecting the lead, and then there's protecting the lead. Stopping NE one time would have won the game - but so would have scoring one more time. Clearly, that's what Atlanta was thinking of doing, and now, that's their regret - "had we just scored one more time, we would have won." Scoring was something they'd done all year, without advice from any of us. They knew what they were doing - and they still got beat. It happens. Sometimes the outcome is the result of two good teams who both know what they were doing - the loser isn't always a bunch of bums.

But the Falcons defense was wearing down. Anybody could see that. They were on the field the whole game, hence why they should have been running the ball more than ever in the second half of the game. They needed to protect the lead, protect the defense. How do you do that? You run the ball. That's what you do. Am I just going crazy here? I feel like I'm going crazy. The is football 101 stuff here and people are making it seem like I'm coming up with some kind of new x's and o's strategy here.

[Merlin1958]

Wait, did someone just mention, The Blue Jays, The Yankees and TGOAT in the same sentence? Please, The Yanks have more pennants than the Jays have years in the league for God's sake!!! lol lol


And to stay on topic, I knew the Falcon's were gonna blow it the second they went for a pass on second down and in FG range to make it an 11 point game. Pat's sacked, Ryan and took them out of range and that was the game right there.

[St. Troy]

I was at a Super Bowl party with 22 people. Everyone of them thought Carroll should have run the ball in that spot. I still think the Pats would have let them score too.

Funny that NE didn't take the "let 'em score" attitude on the pass play they actually ran; that must've been an ad lib by Butler. Lucky for NE, eh?

[Merlin1958]

I was at a Super Bowl party with 22 people. Everyone of them thought Carroll should have run the ball in that spot. I still think the Pats would have let them score too.

Funny that NE didn't take the "let 'em score" attitude on the pass play they actually ran; that must've been an ad lib by Butler. Lucky for NE, eh?


My Lord, give it up. They got lucky. Nothing wrong with that. Now, if "JPP" had been there, well....... lol

[Mattrick]

Wait, did someone just mention, The Blue Jays, The Yankees and TGOAT in the same sentence? Please, The Yanks have more pennants than the Jays have years in the league for God's sake!!! lol lol


It was the Yankees fan who did it ;)

[Jon]

So...did Mattrick take Tom's jersey?

[Still Servant]

I was at a Super Bowl party with 22 people. Everyone of them thought Carroll should have run the ball in that spot. I still think the Pats would have let them score too.

Funny that NE didn't take the "let 'em score" attitude on the pass play they actually ran; that must've been an ad lib by Butler. Lucky for NE, eh?
When you see they aren't running the ball, you react. He reacted and made a great play. Regardless, run the ball on 2nd down. If you want to throw on 3rd and 4th, knock yourself out.

[DoctorZaius]

I was at a Super Bowl party with 22 people. Everyone of them thought Carroll should have run the ball in that spot. I still think the Pats would have let them score too.

Funny that NE didn't take the "let 'em score" attitude on the pass play they actually ran; that must've been an ad lib by Butler. Lucky for NE, eh?
When you see they aren't running the ball, you react. He reacted and made a great play. Regardless, run the ball on 2nd down. If you want to throw on 3rd and 4th, knock yourself out.

More than just a reaction. It was great coaching and fine execution. Everyone knew that was Pete's go to pass play on the goal line. The Pats had practiced that very situation at Saturday's walkthrough, with emphasis on Pete's tendency for it. Butler paid attention, and when he got his chance he executed just like he had been coached.

[Still Servant]

All the more reason to run the ball. As I mentioned. They could have passed the ball on 3rd or 4th.

Lynch gets in there in that situation whether they let him or not. Carroll got outcoached and the Seahawks WR got outworked.

[Jon]

Yep...I know a Seahawks fan...it should have been 3 off tackle dives...if 3 were needed.

[fernandito]

All I'm saying is you have to put some of this on the Falcons. Even 10%. I never thought the game was over so while watching and playing along I always had protecting the lead as a priority.

I think you're under the impression that we're attributing the result specifically to the Pats' actions. That is not the case. The Falcons had 50% input in what happened that day.

What I'm debating is that no other combination of QB, Coach or team in the NFL right now is capable of executing the other 50% that was needed to complete the equation. Beyond their physical capabilities, NE's mental fortitude is probably the best the NFL will ever see.

And again, I'm a Packers fan. I have no emotional stake in whatever accomplishments the Pats have. Just giving mad props to that entire organization for pulling off a win of that magnitude.

[Still Servant]

All I'm saying is you have to put some of this on the Falcons. Even 10%. I never thought the game was over so while watching and playing along I always had protecting the lead as a priority.

I think you're under the impression that we're attributing the result specifically to the Pats' actions. That is not the case. The Falcons had 50% input in what happened that day.

What I'm debating is that no other combination of QB, Coach or team in the NFL right now is capable of executing the other 50% that was needed to complete the equation. Beyond their physical capabilities, NE's mental fortitude is probably the best the NFL will ever see.

And again, I'm a Packers fan. I have no emotional stake in whatever accomplishments the Pats have. Just giving mad props to that entire organization for pulling off a win of that magnitude.
I'd agree with that. All I'm saying is many of my friends who are Patriots fans are saying that it was all Pats and the Falcons did nothing to contribute to the collapse. I just think that's insane.

Jon, as a Seahawks fan, what were you calling for before that play was called. If you can remember back to that moment?

[DoctorZaius]

All I'm saying is you have to put some of this on the Falcons. Even 10%. I never thought the game was over so while watching and playing along I always had protecting the lead as a priority.

I think you're under the impression that we're attributing the result specifically to the Pats' actions. That is not the case. The Falcons had 50% input in what happened that day.

What I'm debating is that no other combination of QB, Coach or team in the NFL right now is capable of executing the other 50% that was needed to complete the equation. Beyond their physical capabilities, NE's mental fortitude is probably the best the NFL will ever see.

And again, I'm a Packers fan. I have no emotional stake in whatever accomplishments the Pats have. Just giving mad props to that entire organization for pulling off a win of that magnitude.
I'd agree with that. All I'm saying is many of my friends who are Patriots fans are saying that it was all Pats and the Falcons did nothing to contribute to the collapse. I just think that's insane.

Jon, as a Seahawks fan, what were you calling for before that play was called. If you can remember back to that moment?

Funny, I'm in the heart of Patriot Nation and I have yet to meet anyone who does not acknowledge that the Falcons made many mistakes, but as fernandito points out, few teams would have the mental wherewithal to bring it on home like the Patriots did. Just ask the the Packers who came up short two weeks earlier.

[Still Servant]

Well, in all honesty, they aren't big football fans. The ones that know their stuff acknowledge that Atlanta bears some responsibility. There are so many more frontrunners here in CT than where you are I'm sure. I have a few friends growing up that switched to the Pats when they started winning. One grew up a Jets fan the other a Jags.

[St. Troy]

The Falcons failed to execute and handle the pressure, sure...but the herd-approved notion that the audience suddenly assumed coaching abilities superior to those of any team that loses a lead remains hogwash.

[Still Servant]

The Falcons failed to execute and handle the pressure, sure...but the herd-approved notion that the audience suddenly assumed coaching abilities superior to those of any team that loses a lead remains hogwash.
So every decision an NFL coach makes is the correct one?

[Jon]

The Falcons failed to execute and handle the pressure, sure...but the herd-approved notion that the audience suddenly assumed coaching abilities superior to those of any team that loses a lead remains hogwash.


I hate to disagree. I am no Pats fan at all but this team always seems to produce semi-stars out of no names. This is the essence of coaching skills.

Either that or they are good at scouting new talent...perhaps a mix of both. Either way that is done by coaches/management.

In this era of salary caps it is difficult to keep a high caliber team together but the Pats put one together most every season.

There is a good reason "the herd" goes to the water hole...water is effective.

[Still Servant]

So true. No coach on the planet gets more out of less talent than BB.

That's not to say that the players he configures his team with don't have talent, it's just a different kind of talent. The NFL values 40 times, height, bench press and other measurables way too much. Give me good football players. Give me guys who listen, who play hard, who are super competitive. Guys who are hard workers off the field, who do the small things. Receivers that run good routes. Defensive players that tackle with the correct technique instead of looking for the big hit.

The Pats love bringing in coachable guys. Once that's done, they have great coaches to do the rest. I'm shocked more teams haven't been able to mimic this template. It's obviously tougher than I just made it seem.

[Jon]

Yes Still ...we used to call it "hustle."

But I suspect it is more than BB. He must have other good coaches/trainers/management that know how to...

1.recognize a work ethic

2.motivate.

Collectively we call this "leadership.

[St. Troy]

One of the worst things about the NFL is how precious they've gotten about what is considered a catch. I certainly wasn't rooting for the Steelers last night, but man, that there is any definition of "catch" that excludes the Jesse James (that's really your name? really?) catch near the end is effing ridiculous.

(To clarify: it was a proper call of an insane rule/definition).

[Andi]

It's not like the poor guy named himself...lol

And as a Lion's fan, I know all about 'completing the process'. :angry_002:

I think my biggest issue this year is the emergence of the whole fumbling out of bounds through the endzone automatically results in a touchback rule. Any rule that only serves to curb dramatic, gutsy plays should not be allowed, IMO. And, perhaps not so surprisingly, that happened against the Patriots as well, and resulted in a reverse of a touchdown for Austin Sefarian Jenkins. The Jets went on to lose that game by one touchdown. Go figure. :-P

[St. Troy]

My guideline is "if you didn't drop it, you caught it."

There's also some weird unsportsmanlike conduct rule that came into play a few years ago when a NE player bumped into another NE player (not something that gains an advantage, a "whoops" in the backfield), thereby voiding a successful field goal.

:confused:

[Andi]

Crazy how that works, eh?!

[Still Servant]

I'm all for a common sense rule. Sometimes you have to just use your brain and throw actual rules out the window. Regardless, James' hand was still under the ball. I still don't see where it hit the ground.

[Iwritecode]

I'm all for a common sense rule. Sometimes you have to just use your brain and throw actual rules out the window. Regardless, James' hand was still under the ball. I still don't see where it hit the ground.

I don't have a dog in this fight either way since I don't really watch football, but that ball totally hit the ground.

https://twitter.com/NFLFootballOps/status/942559627295764480/video/1

[St. Troy]

Sure, the ball "hit" the ground (I would say "touched") but why in God's name, given that a pair of hands working together can not cover the entirety of a football's surface, does it matter if part of a ball clutched between two hands happens to touch the ground? Insanity.

I've heard some explanations of this play where they say "the plane (goal line) doesn't become a factor until the player with the ball becomes a runner." The whole "becoming a runner" conversation is one of the dumbest things in the NFL...but maybe not as dumb as saying that the plane (the single most important thing on the field) doesn't become a factor until something else happens. Holy shit this is all so dumb.

Funny to get so worked up about a play that went against a team I'd never root for in a game I didn't even see. (And don't get me started on continuation, initiation of contact, or the planting of a defender's feet in the NBA).

I've seen plenty of touchdowns where the player was practically running for the tunnel to leave the field but waved the ball in the general direction of the pylon and - TOUCHDOWN! Sure it is.

[Jon]

Naw... he controlled the ball...broke the plane of the goal line...end of play..Touchdown.

The key here is that he broke the plane of the goal line....end of play. That precedent is already set... bad call.

No folded index card needed. LOL

[fernandito]

Of course the Patriots picked up James Harrison when he was dropped from the Steelers.

[DoctorZaius]

Of course the Patriots picked up James Harrison when he was dropped from the Steelers.

Yup! :thumbsup:

[Jon]

Well..the Pats are struggling...LOL.

I think this was a matter of depriving their rival of his talent.

[DoctorZaius]

Two sacks and a forced fumble for James Harrison - nice late season addition for the Pats! :rock:

[Jon]

I have never had an issue with N.E. I am also aware that "you can call holding on most any play." But there was only one holding call against N.E. and that was on a kick return. In a game that close...SMFH

I saw a whole lot of holding by the N.E."O" line and many on key plays...including N.E.'s last first down.

Not sour grapes... just an observation.

[Still Servant]

I have never had an issue with N.E. I am also aware that "you can call holding on most any play." But there was only one holding call against N.E. and that was on a kick return. In a game that close...SMFH

I saw a whole lot of holding by the N.E."O" line and many on key plays...including N.E.'s last first down.

Not sour grapes... just an observation.

I'm a Giants fan, so I have nothing against the Pats. Every time they win it makes the Giants look that much better. That said, I counted 6 holding penalties on the Pats offensive line that weren't called. Brady has such a great relationship with the refs that it really works in his favor in spots like that.

[Jon]

I have never had an issue with N.E. I am also aware that "you can call holding on most any play." But there was only one holding call against N.E. and that was on a kick return. In a game that close...SMFH

I saw a whole lot of holding by the N.E."O" line and many on key plays...including N.E.'s last first down.

Not sour grapes... just an observation.

I'm a Giants fan, so I have nothing against the Pats. Every time they win it makes the Giants look that much better. That said, I counted 6 holding penalties on the Pats offensive line that weren't called. Brady has such a great relationship with the refs that it really works in his favor in spots like that.

Yes.. my point.. an entire game with no holding penalties on an "O" line?? Figure those odds...watch an NFL game in week 4 or 7 or 9 ect.

LOL... and NASCAR is fake...LOL

[Jon]

I noticed that in the Vikings/Eagles game a fight developed and several of the Eagles cheerleaders ran onto the field and right close to the fight. I think this was early in the fourth quarter. Interesting psychology.

All broke right up!!

They didn't want to take a chance of hurting the girls.

I have seen this at the prison at work

[fernandito]

Games like yesterday are the reason I hate the fucking Pats. They're good enough, they don't need that little extra push by the refs.

What about that Delay of game penalty that was called AFTER the Jags had already converted the 1st down? Shit like that drives me nuts.

And yes, 1 penalty called against them when Jags D were getting flagged for similar infractions is infuriating.

[cit74]

Can’t wait to see how the refs will get involved on pats side for Super Bowl....and yes I’m from philly so there’s my bias ;)

[Andi]

Let me preface this by saying I hate the Patriots.

I mean....I HATE them. And Tom Brady, regardless of the fact that he's a Michigan grad. And all their slap happy bandwagon fans like my brother in law, who grew up in Illinois during the Bears hay day and still blows the Patriots every single year. It's...infuriating.

But the Jaguars are the ones who lost that game yesterday. Ref issues or not, their 'legendary defense' went pussy mode prevent defense in the 3rd quarter and choked on Tom Brady's wife's huge penis and they totally screwed the pooch. I'm also sick to death of people pretending like Rob Gronkowski is the only guy on that team who can score. NEED I REMIND EVERYONE, he didn't even play in the immaculate comeback last year. So you got dudes like Brandin Cooks (yes, lets leave HIM open) and Amendola eating up 10 or 15 yards a play, allowing the Pats to march down the field. Over. and OVER.

And you can fault the play calling all day long, but the Jag offense couldn't get the job done. Tony Romo and his OMG GAME OF BORTLES LIFE during the first half was a bit premature.

Anyway, needless to say, GO EAGLES. Cause fuck the Patriots.

EDIT: I apologize for my foul language. I just....*hate* them. So. Much.

[St. Troy]

...choked on Tom Brady's wife's huge penis...

This is hysterical, and I can't even guess at the thought process that led to such a comment.

[Andi]

...choked on Tom Brady's wife's huge penis...

This is hysterical, and I can't even guess at the thought process that led to such a comment.

Well, I figure someone has to have a penis in that relationship....but its certainly not Tom. ><

[Still Servant]

Yes.. my point.. an entire game with no holding penalties on an "O" line?? Figure those odds...watch an NFL game in week 4 or 7 or 9 ect.

LOL... and NASCAR is fake...LOL

You're completely on the mark. Nobody is perfect. It's literally an impossibility that the Patriots didn't commit another penalty at some point during the game, yet there you have it.



Games like yesterday are the reason I hate the fucking Pats. They're good enough, they don't need that little extra push by the refs.

What about that Delay of game penalty that was called AFTER the Jags had already converted the 1st down? Shit like that drives me nuts.

And yes, 1 penalty called against them when Jags D were getting flagged for similar infractions is infuriating.

You mean the delay of game that they never showed a replay of? I rewound it, I personally don't see what they're talking about.

I live smack dab in the middle of Connecticut and I can honestly tell you I never met a Patriots fan until the year 2000. Many of them never watched a football game before Brady. Growing up here it was all Giants, Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers and Steelers fans. One of my best friends has never missed a game Brady has played in and he still doesn't know the difference between a defensive lineman and a linebacker. No joke. Their fans are the biggest front runners in sports. Believe me, I've seen it first hand.

With ALL that being said, I can't root for the Eagles. Their fan base is disgusting. They act like they've won shit and they have won dick squat since 1960.

[Andi]

Philly fans boo Santa Claus... ><

[St. Troy]

They act like they've won shit and they have won dick squat since 1960.

Is there a difference between shit and dick squat?

[St. Troy]

I live smack dab in the middle of Connecticut...Growing up here it was all Giants, Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers and Steelers fans...Their fans are the biggest front runners in sports.

You don't get Cowboy, 49er or Steeler fans in Connecticut unless they are bandwagon/frontrunner fans (you could get Eagles fans, as Philly ain't that far away, and you could get Giants fans, as many in Connecticut wish they lived in NY and assume fanhoods consistent with that). I still remember all the Bronco "fans" we had (near Boston) when Elway entered the NFL...

I'm not saying the Pats fans you've known weren't frontrunners - I have no reason to doubt you and the statement does not offend me - I'm just saying you should have been used to it, living (as you did) in a sporting no-man's-land.

[St. Troy]

FWIW, I think Philly is a great sports city; I have nothing against Eagle fans.

[Andi]

I don't know about the fans, but I do like many of the Eagles players.

Carson Wentz is a stand up dude. I'd cheer his team (even if he's not playing) any day of the week.

[DoctorZaius]

24 years and counting as a season ticket holder. I got home from the game around 8:30 PM, with my new conference champs hat that I purchased on the way out of the stadium. Each comeback gets sweeter and sweeter.

The hate, the vitriol, the conspiracy theorists, I just love it. Call us bandwagon jumpers (a bit of an oxymoron given the longevity of success), call us BLEEPING what-evers (your limited vocabulary, no doubt, goes hand in hand with your IQ), call us whatever you want, but deep down, you wish you were us. The reign is no doubt nearing its end, but until it does, just keep on hating.

[Andi]

I absolutely admit that I'm envious of the Patriots long running success. I mean, I'm a Lions fan. The only people who can truly understand the love hate relationship I have with my team are Browns fans. Sorry guys. :-(

The only thing I dislike about Pats fans who are actually from the New England area is that they tend to be impossible to talk to about football. Because all they know is how good things can be, where as the rest of us know the harsh sting of seemingly endless disappointment. So rather than try to understand where we coming from with our vitriol and hate (not necessarily solely geared at them, but also at the ineptitude of our organizations....*cough*LIONS*cough*), they cackle manically and make videos about how much Roger Goodell hates them and Bill Belichick and call the rest of us stupid.

So yeah. There's that.

[Andi]

Although, I'm kinda stoked about getting Ogre as our new head coach!

[Still Servant]

I live smack dab in the middle of Connecticut...Growing up here it was all Giants, Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers and Steelers fans...Their fans are the biggest front runners in sports.

You don't get Cowboy, 49er or Steeler fans in Connecticut unless they are bandwagon/frontrunner fans (you could get Eagles fans, as Philly ain't that far away, and you could get Giants fans, as many in Connecticut wish they lived in NY and assume fanhoods consistent with that). I still remember all the Bronco "fans" we had (near Boston) when Elway entered the NFL...

I'm not saying the Pats fans you've known weren't frontrunners - I have no reason to doubt you and the statement does not offend me - I'm just saying you should have been used to it, living (as you did) in a sporting no-man's-land.

Most people who live in CT don't wish they lived in NY. I can assure you of that. The lower half of the state is so close to NY, it's natural for many people to follow the New York teams. For baseball, if you live in the northern half of the state, you're typically a Red Sox fan. If you live in the southern half, you're a Yankees fan. There are a select few who choose to follow the Mets for some reason.

My point is that for most of my life nobody was rooting for the Patriots here. I'm sure they had their pockets of fans, but it wasn't until they got good that anybody cared. If you didn't like the Giants, you found a team from another state to root for. There are almost as many Jets fans here as Giants fans and they haven't won shit. Football more than any other sport is not as regional as you would think. Go to any bar on a Sunday and you will see jerseys from every team represented. Obviously this is going to vary depending on where you live, but there are pockets of fans for all teams everywhere in country.


I absolutely admit that I'm envious of the Patriots long running success. I mean, I'm a Lions fan. The only people who can truly understand the love hate relationship I have with my team are Browns fans. Sorry guys. :-(

The only thing I dislike about Pats fans who are actually from the New England area is that they tend to be impossible to talk to about football. Because all they know is how good things can be, where as the rest of us know the harsh sting of seemingly endless disappointment. So rather than try to understand where we coming from with our vitriol and hate (not necessarily solely geared at them, but also at the ineptitude of our organizations....*cough*LIONS*cough*), they cackle manically and make videos about how much Roger Goodell hates them and Bill Belichick and call the rest of us stupid.

So yeah. There's that.

The problem with most New England Patriots fans in CT that I know is that you literally can't talk football with them. Their knowledge is very basic. They can barely tell you what teams are in their Division, let alone their Conference. This is not all, but it's sure a decent amount.

[St. Troy]

...all they know is how good things can be, where as the rest of us know the harsh sting of seemingly endless disappointment...

Don't forget, many Pats fans are also Red Sox fans who remember the pre-2004 days; we know the dark side intimately (although I suspect college-age and younger Pats fans may have a less charitable and more insufferable attitude).

My message to any fan whose team is on a prolonged multiyear cold streak: chin up, dig in, back your guys, enjoy the next game and be ready when the turnaround comes. Our Celtics went 22 years between titles, the Bruins 40 years (I think), the Sox 250 years or whatever it was, and for the Pats, we just never thought we'd get there. Hope isn't just a cliche - it's real.

[St. Troy]

There are a select few who choose to follow the Mets for some reason.

"...for some reason" - hysterical.

I don't think I'd be able to follow any team that borrowed its colors from bags of circus peanuts, but hey, that's just me.


...it wasn't until they got good that anybody cared.

Winning seems to have that effect.

The tide will eventually recede and will pick up somewhere else when the Belichick era runs out, and you'll be looking at a bunch of Lions or Ravens jerseys etc.

[Andi]

Nom nom nom...
Circus peanuts.

[SpaceMaN]

I love how everyone pronouns themselves onto the teams.

1970 and counting. I wasn't even born.

[Still Servant]

There are a select few who choose to follow the Mets for some reason.

"...for some reason" - hysterical.

I don't think I'd be able to follow any team that borrowed its colors from bags of circus peanuts, but hey, that's just me.

Is that true?

I was always under the assumption the Mets took their colors from the Giants and Dodgers - two New York teams that left for California. The blue was for the Dodgers and the orange for the Giants. I don't remember where, but I could have sworn I read that. I've never heard the peanuts theory before, but that seems even funnier.

[DoctorZaius]

I absolutely admit that I'm envious of the Patriots long running success. I mean, I'm a Lions fan. The only people who can truly understand the love hate relationship I have with my team are Browns fans. Sorry guys. :-(

The only thing I dislike about Pats fans who are actually from the New England area is that they tend to be impossible to talk to about football. Because all they know is how good things can be, where as the rest of us know the harsh sting of seemingly endless disappointment. So rather than try to understand where we coming from with our vitriol and hate (not necessarily solely geared at them, but also at the ineptitude of our organizations....*cough*LIONS*cough*), they cackle manically and make videos about how much Roger Goodell hates them and Bill Belichick and call the rest of us stupid.

So yeah. There's that.

What bothers me is the "they" attachment to so many comments. Maybe it's a generational thing. As a life-long fan from the New England area, I'd be happy to talk about football. I am 54 years old, so believe me, I know the sting of disappointment. I grew up watching Steve Grogan, John Hannah, and the like in the 1970s. Things were often so bad that I had to root for other teams: the Roger Staubach Cowboys, the Jim Zorn and Steve Largent Seahawks, and the Dan Fouts Chargers were favorites of mine. I still remember the sting of seeng a former Patriot, Jim Plunket lead the Raiders to their Super Bowl Championship in 1981 (over the Eagles - hahaha). I finally got my first taste of a Super Bowl in 1986, and we were soundly beaten by the Chicago Bears and their vaunted 46 defense - remember the Refrigerator? Then I waited another 11 years to get back, to get beaten by Farvre in a game where our coach Bill Parcels had one foot out the door on his way to the rival Jets - I'll never forgive him! At least I thought I wouldn't. Bill Bilichick backstabbed the Jets and orchestrated his release/trade to the Patriots, and well, history was made. I paid my dues, and yes, I am living the life right now. Like all things it will come to an end.

[St. Troy]

Is that true?

I was always under the assumption the Mets took their colors from the Giants and Dodgers - two New York teams that left for California. The blue was for the Dodgers and the orange for the Giants. I don't remember where, but I could have sworn I read that. I've never heard the peanuts theory before, but that seems even funnier.

My circus peanut comment wasn't a serious theory so much as I noticed the commonality. I do think the colors look awful together (NY Knicks, I haven't forgotten you).

[St. Troy]

Bill Bilichick backstabbed the Jets and orchestrated his release/trade to the Patriots...

You sound like a Pats fan with a long and deep memory - let me ask you about something:

My recollection of the press conference in which BB dumped the Jets is that he looked like a mental case: messed up hair, scrunched up face etc. (not that he ever handsomely beams from the podium, but this was noticeably worse than usual); I remember thinking, "this guy is going to run our team?" Does this sound right to you?

I would dearly love to find a clip of this on YouTube etc. but have never been able to find it.

[DoctorZaius]

Bill Bilichick backstabbed the Jets and orchestrated his release/trade to the Patriots...

You sound like a Pats fan with a long and deep memory - let me ask you about something:

My recollection of the press conference in which BB dumped the Jets is that he looked like a mental case: messed up hair, scrunched up face etc. (not that he ever handsomely beams from the podium, but this was noticeably worse than usual); I remember thinking, "this guy is going to run our team?" Does this sound right to you?

I would dearly love to find a clip of this on YouTube etc. but have never been able to find it.

Ring a bell?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5OFlPcEzbU

[Andi]

What bothers me is the "they" attachment to so many comments. Maybe it's a generational thing. As a life-long fan from the New England area, I'd be happy to talk about football. I am 54 years old, so believe me, I know the sting of disappointment. I grew up watching Steve Grogan, John Hannah, and the like in the 1970s. Things were often so bad that I had to root for other teams: the Roger Staubach Cowboys, the Jim Zorn and Steve Largent Seahawks, and the Dan Fouts Chargers were favorites of mine. I still remember the sting of seeng a former Patriot, Jim Plunket lead the Raiders to their Super Bowl Championship in 1981 (over the Eagles - hahaha). I finally got my first taste of a Super Bowl in 1986, and we were soundly beaten by the Chicago Bears and their vaunted 46 defense - remember the Refrigerator? Then I waited another 11 years to get back, to get beaten by Farvre in a game where our coach Bill Parcels had one foot out the door on his way to the rival Jets - I'll never forgive him! At least I thought I wouldn't. Bill Bilichick backstabbed the Jets and orchestrated his release/trade to the Patriots, and well, history was made. I paid my dues, and yes, I am living the life right now. Like all things it will come to an end.

Of course I remember William Perry....I was born/raised in Illinois after all. And I'm certainly no spring chicken (I'll be 39 in June).

And thanks Doc, I wasn't so sure about you at first. But as the kids say, it's all good in the hood. :coo3l:

[St. Troy]

Ring a bell?

Yes, and nice work finding the video, but unfortunately it's so blurry that I can't quite make out the "crazy" or whatever gave me that impression.

[Still Servant]

Ring a bell?

Yes, and nice work finding the video, but unfortunately it's so blurry that I can't quite make out the "crazy" or whatever gave me that impression.

I was going to post it last night, but the quality was so bad I decided to dig deeper but then I got distracted.

Speaking of Fridge, I had his G.I. Joe. Wasn't as fat as it should have been.

[DoctorZaius]

What bothers me is the "they" attachment to so many comments. Maybe it's a generational thing. As a life-long fan from the New England area, I'd be happy to talk about football. I am 54 years old, so believe me, I know the sting of disappointment. I grew up watching Steve Grogan, John Hannah, and the like in the 1970s. Things were often so bad that I had to root for other teams: the Roger Staubach Cowboys, the Jim Zorn and Steve Largent Seahawks, and the Dan Fouts Chargers were favorites of mine. I still remember the sting of seeng a former Patriot, Jim Plunket lead the Raiders to their Super Bowl Championship in 1981 (over the Eagles - hahaha). I finally got my first taste of a Super Bowl in 1986, and we were soundly beaten by the Chicago Bears and their vaunted 46 defense - remember the Refrigerator? Then I waited another 11 years to get back, to get beaten by Farvre in a game where our coach Bill Parcels had one foot out the door on his way to the rival Jets - I'll never forgive him! At least I thought I wouldn't. Bill Bilichick backstabbed the Jets and orchestrated his release/trade to the Patriots, and well, history was made. I paid my dues, and yes, I am living the life right now. Like all things it will come to an end.

Of course I remember William Perry....I was born/raised in Illinois after all. And I'm certainly no spring chicken (I'll be 39 in June).

And thanks Doc, I wasn't so sure about you at first. But as the kids say, it's all good in the hood. :coo3l:

Ah, the Motor City. Don't complain too much, you did have Barry Sanders to marvel at, and then Calvin Johnson. Some teams don't even get that.

[Iwritecode]

Ring a bell?

Yes, and nice work finding the video, but unfortunately it's so blurry that I can't quite make out the "crazy" or whatever gave me that impression.

I was going to post it last night, but the quality was so bad I decided to dig deeper but then I got distracted.

Speaking of Fridge, I had his G.I. Joe. Wasn't as fat as it should have been.

When I was in high school, the company that made his Superbowl ring came in so we could order our class rings. They had either his actual ring, or a replica of it, that we were allowed to touch and hold. The thing was so big it nearly fit on me as a bracelet.

[Andi]

Ah, the Motor City. Don't complain too much, you did have Barry Sanders to marvel at, and then Calvin Johnson. Some teams don't even get that.

I moved to metro Detroit the year the Lions drafted Calvin Johnson and watching Megatron play was a thing of beauty. Players like him give me a true appreciation for the game, and they are why I can look past all the ridiculous NFL politics and still love he sport of football. It's too just bad he retired early, not that I can blame him at all, as I'm sure Matt Stafford shaved years off that poor man's life.

[Still Servant]

Ah, the Motor City. Don't complain too much, you did have Barry Sanders to marvel at, and then Calvin Johnson. Some teams don't even get that.

I moved to metro Detroit the year the Lions drafted Calvin Johnson and watching Megatron play was a thing of beauty. Players like him give me a true appreciation for the game, and they are why I can look past all the ridiculous NFL politics and still love he sport of football. It's too just bad he retired early, not that I can blame him at all, as I'm sure Matt Stafford shaved years off that poor man's life.

Amari Spievey went to my high school. He was drafted by the Lions, played DB, but his career got derailed by injuries.

[DoctorZaius]

Ah, the Motor City. Don't complain too much, you did have Barry Sanders to marvel at, and then Calvin Johnson. Some teams don't even get that.

I moved to metro Detroit the year the Lions drafted Calvin Johnson and watching Megatron play was a thing of beauty. Players like him give me a true appreciation for the game, and they are why I can look past all the ridiculous NFL politics and still love he sport of football. It's too just bad he retired early, not that I can blame him at all, as I'm sure Matt Stafford shaved years off that poor man's life.

Amari Spievey went to my high school. He was drafted by the Lions, played DB, but his career got derailed by injuries.

Not football related, but I played basketball against Patrick Ewing in high school. He killed us. Swatted one of my shots into the stands.

[Andi]

Amari Spievey went to my high school. He was drafted by the Lions, played DB, but his career got derailed by injuries.

Not football related, but I played basketball against Patrick Ewing in high school. He killed us. Swatted one of my shots into the stands.

Oh yeah, I remember Spievey. And that's super awesome about Patrick Ewing.

As a woman I never got to play against any famous professional athletes 'back in the day'....Although senior year in high school I totally hit a home run off a chick who went to University of Wisconsin on a full ride for softball though. Badger Badger Badger.

I did have a funny moment a few years back though when I was watching baseball on TV and I recognized a pitcher on the Cubs. I was an Athletic Training major at Illinois State and was placed with the baseball team one spring. Of course I was super professional back then so I didn't make it my business to be super buddy buddy with the players (plus I was kinda socially awkward at 19 years old and they were all very....adult and manly and good looking and intimidating in a way) but I guess you could call them work acquaintances. Anyway, I'm watching baseball on TV and I was just like..."hey, I know that guy, that's Neal Cotts. I gave him ice for his shoulder sometimes."

[Still Servant]

Amari Spievey went to my high school. He was drafted by the Lions, played DB, but his career got derailed by injuries.

Not football related, but I played basketball against Patrick Ewing in high school. He killed us. Swatted one of my shots into the stands.

Oh yeah, I remember Spievey. And that's super awesome about Patrick Ewing.

As a woman I never got to play against any famous professional athletes 'back in the day'....Although senior year in high school I totally hit a home run off a chick who went to University of Wisconsin on a full ride for softball though. Badger Badger Badger.

I did have a funny moment a few years back though when I was watching baseball on TV and I recognized a pitcher on the Cubs. I was an Athletic Training major at Illinois State and was placed with the baseball team one spring. Of course I was super professional back then so I didn't make it my business to be super buddy buddy with the players (plus I was kinda socially awkward at 19 years old and they were all very....adult and manly and good looking and intimidating in a way) but I guess you could call them work acquaintances. Anyway, I'm watching baseball on TV and I was just like..."hey, I know that guy, that's Neal Cotts. I gave him ice for his shoulder sometimes."

Patrick Ewing was the shit! He must have been a freak of nature in high school.

I remember Neal Cotts! Lefty reliever I believe. Decent career.

[Andi]

You are correct, Mikey.

My college bestie's boyfriend was a carbon copy of him. So behind closed doors we called him Keith #2.

[Jon]

What bothers me is the "they" attachment to so many comments. Maybe it's a generational thing. As a life-long fan from the New England area, I'd be happy to talk about football. I am 54 years old, so believe me, I know the sting of disappointment. I grew up watching Steve Grogan, John Hannah, and the like in the 1970s. Things were often so bad that I had to root for other teams: the Roger Staubach Cowboys, the Jim Zorn and Steve Largent Seahawks, and the Dan Fouts Chargers were favorites of mine. I still remember the sting of seeng a former Patriot, Jim Plunket lead the Raiders to their Super Bowl Championship in 1981 (over the Eagles - hahaha). I finally got my first taste of a Super Bowl in 1986, and we were soundly beaten by the Chicago Bears and their vaunted 46 defense - remember the Refrigerator? Then I waited another 11 years to get back, to get beaten by Farvre in a game where our coach Bill Parcels had one foot out the door on his way to the rival Jets - I'll never forgive him! At least I thought I wouldn't. Bill Bilichick backstabbed the Jets and orchestrated his release/trade to the Patriots, and well, history was made. I paid my dues, and yes, I am living the life right now. Like all things it will come to an end.


So nice to hear a reference to Jim Zorn and Representative Largent! I too enjoyed watching Dan Fouts, Charlie Joyner...Jefferson and that tight end...what a team!!

Dear God please make Barry Sanders play again and heal Darren Sproles.

[DoctorZaius]

What bothers me is the "they" attachment to so many comments. Maybe it's a generational thing. As a life-long fan from the New England area, I'd be happy to talk about football. I am 54 years old, so believe me, I know the sting of disappointment. I grew up watching Steve Grogan, John Hannah, and the like in the 1970s. Things were often so bad that I had to root for other teams: the Roger Staubach Cowboys, the Jim Zorn and Steve Largent Seahawks, and the Dan Fouts Chargers were favorites of mine. I still remember the sting of seeng a former Patriot, Jim Plunket lead the Raiders to their Super Bowl Championship in 1981 (over the Eagles - hahaha). I finally got my first taste of a Super Bowl in 1986, and we were soundly beaten by the Chicago Bears and their vaunted 46 defense - remember the Refrigerator? Then I waited another 11 years to get back, to get beaten by Farvre in a game where our coach Bill Parcels had one foot out the door on his way to the rival Jets - I'll never forgive him! At least I thought I wouldn't. Bill Bilichick backstabbed the Jets and orchestrated his release/trade to the Patriots, and well, history was made. I paid my dues, and yes, I am living the life right now. Like all things it will come to an end.


So nice to hear a reference to Jim Zorn and Representative Largent! I too enjoyed watching Dan Fouts, Charlie Joyner...Jefferson and that tight end...what a team!!

Dear God please make Barry Sanders play again and heal Darren Sproles.

That Chargers-Miami playoff game in 1982 is one of the most vivid memories I have as to how exciting football can be. Kellen Winslow was a man among kids - can't remember how many times he had to be carried off. What a game. Of course, since then I have had the luxury of some more satisfying wins with my Patriots, but that playoff game made me an NFL fan for life.

[Jon]

Yes.. a game i remember but I was sooo torn. I love those Chargers but at the time they were in the same division with my Seahawks!!

Isn't one of Windslow's boys in the NFL now? A coach??

[Cook]

Go Patriots !!

[Sai Sheb]

Off to work... back by 9:30pm GMT few beers and a Patriots win... cant wait!:rock:

[DoctorZaius]

Yes.. a game i remember but I was sooo torn. I love those Chargers but at the time they were in the same division with my Seahawks!!

Isn't one of Windslow's boys in the NFL now? A coach??

He was a player. I think he was drafted by Tampa in 2005 or 2006? He played one game for the Pats in 2012. Tried a comeback in 2016, but I don't think it worked out.

[Sai Sheb]

Predictions:
Im gonna go Pats by 7-12...

[Andi]

So, this game is proving to be a lot more interesting than i expected!!!

Those extra points though!

[cit74]

Lot of points left on the table - very fun first half

[Andi]

Oh. Snap.

For the record....I felt the Clement touchdown should have been overturned and that the Ertz touchdown was clearly good. But man, what a game. My hat's off to the Eagles and especially Nick Foles. Yowza.

[cit74]

Foles played great - an exciting game for sure. Came down to the wire - the whole family enjoyed the game

[Sai Sheb]

Crying in my coffee this morning...

[Andi]

I think a lot of people are...

One punt the entire game. I mean, how crazy is that?

[Iwritecode]

I think a lot of people are...

One punt the entire game. I mean, how crazy is that?

Well, a lot of people in one small part of the country. Everyone else is pretty happy.

http://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/thumb-116.jpg

[St. Troy]

One punt the entire game.

That's what ineffective D gets you!

I thought it betrayed a strangely shallow view of the game of football when the announcers said something like "what a great game this has been, there's only been one punt" - good football games have offense and defense, not just running up and down the field racking up points.

I know some prefer high scoring games, but even when my team wins them, it feels cheesy. Of course, I'm not trying to take anything away from the Eagles' win - they got the job done, and that's all that counts.

Congrats to the Eagles, who played very well, and to Philly, a great sports city.

Unfortunately I expect Brady to be blamed for this, when really I think it was the NE defense that did very little when it mattered.

My main disappointment for the night was learning that the Eagles' jerseys weren't actually green. When we put the game on, my daughter remarked on their cool helmets, and I said something like "yes, I've always liked their dark green jerseys." She said, no, they are teal. I told her she was crazy, then stared at the screen and had to admit they looked just a bit teal instead of the dark green I'd always remembered. Then I thought, maybe it's the cameras - earlier in the day I'd watched my Celtics play the Portland Trailblazers, whose uniforms were mostly red - except for when viewed through certain cameras, when they appeared orange.

So I went to the internet and discovered that every single site confirmed that the Eagles wore green. Ha! Vindication! But the more specific sites said it was something called "midnight green," which, upon further research, is actually defined as a dark form of cyan, which ultimately is...blue. WTF.

Any Eagles fans (or other general football diehards) out there who can confirm my (now suspect) memories of true dark green Eagles jerseys?

[Andi]

I don't believe that map one bit.... especially considering Brady is a Michigan grad. He's got a lot of support here.

Besides, that's a betting site. Of course people were putting money on the Eagles. They aren't gong to win anything betting on New England.

Actually, anyone know what the over/under (48 ) and points spread (Patriots 4.5 favorite) was on the game last night? I bet some of the prop betting was craaaaaazy.

EDIT: Because I looked that stuff up.

[Andi]

One punt the entire game.

That's what ineffective D gets you!

I thought it betrayed a strangely shallow view of the game of football when the announcers said something like "what a great game this has been, there's only been one punt" - good football games have offense and defense, not just running up and down the field racking up points.

I know some prefer high scoring games, but even when my team wins them, it feels cheesy. Of course, I'm not trying to take anything away from the Eagles' win - they got the job done, and that's all that counts.

Congrats to the Eagles, who played very well, and to Philly, a great sports city.

Unfortunately I expect Brady to be blamed for this, when really I think it was the NE defense that did very little when it mattered.

My main disappointment for the night was learning that the Eagles' jerseys weren't actually green. When we put the game on, my daughter remarked on their cool helmets, and I said something like "yes, I've always liked their dark green jerseys." She said, no, they are teal. I told her she was crazy, then stared at the screen and had to admit they looked just a bit teal instead of the dark green I'd always remembered. Then I thought, maybe it's the cameras - earlier in the day I'd watched my Celtics play the Portland Trailblazers, whose uniforms were mostly red - except for when viewed through certain cameras, when they appeared orange.

So I went to the internet and discovered that every single site confirmed that the Eagles wore green. Ha! Vindication! But the more specific sites said it was something called "midnight green," which, upon further research, is actually defined as a dark form of cyan, which ultimately is...blue. WTF.

Any Eagles fans (or other general football diehards) out there who can confirm my (now suspect) memories of true dark green Eagles jerseys?

I agree with you about the announcers, Troy. They really glazed over that whole lack of defense thing entirely which was obnoxious. I mean, I give it up to the Eagles, because they did the one thing that could get them the win (which the Jaguar's couldn't do)...they kept their foot on the gas the entire game. But that turnover was the only defensive play the ENTIRE GAME. It was exciting and all that, but I feel a good defensive game is far more satisfying.

Also, I could have strangled Cris Collinsworth at one point when he was talking about the Eagles 'controversial' touchdowns. As I said before, I agree, the Clement TD could have gone both ways. Honestly, I was shocked they didn't call it back, especially after some of the calls they have made earlier in the season in the same exact same situation. As far as I was concerned, he never gained control of the ball, therefore he didn't 'complete the process', therefore it wasn't a touchdown, yadda yadda yadda. Okay, so I get it, Collinsworth was shocked they didn't call it back. But then during the Zach Ertz touchdown, he acted like he's never seen a 'football move' before and was again SHOCKED they didn't reverse the call. He basically threw up his hands on air and said he had no idea what the NFL is doing. Which, had the call been that bad, I might have gotten on board with him. But it wasn't. And as someone from the midwest who constantly hears about Troy Aikman's biased announcing (Packers fans HATE him) I was just like dude, who sounds biased now. I get it, the NFL needs to review some of their rules, try to keep it in your pants though.

Oh, and did anyone else hear Rodney Harrison put Tom Brady on blast right before the half time show started? That whole, "When Tom Brady gets hit he turns into an AVERAGE quarterback", remark he made? Whoa baby.



And don't ever call Lions jerseys 'light blue' around here. It's MALIBU BLUE OKAY?! I am pretty sure you're right though, and looking at some of the throwback jersey styles, some look very very green. But...they say 'midnight green'. So, maybe not?

I did find this, even if it doesn't state the exact COLOR of the jerseys. http://www.gridiron-uniforms.com/GUD/eagles.shtml They look super kelly green to me though.

[Andi]

lol...speaking of prop bets. I think this is my favorite:

How many times will Trump tweet on Super Bowl Sunday?

The over/under is set at 5

I can't actually find the answer to that. ><

[St. Troy]

As for the "controversial" Eagles touchdowns...what a pleasure to see that the NFL is still so schizophrenic about what a catch is.

First: because I'm logical (my rule is: if you didn't drop it, you caught it), I call them both catches.

But then: the NFL has effed-up rules and the referees' job supposedly is to follow those effed-up rules, and I'm not sure they did:

- The first guy lost control after hitting the field (which is meaningless to me, because by then the play should be dead - how come, way back when, when Brett Favre waved the ball in the general direction of the end zone while running out of bounds at the 5 used to be an automatic touchdown, but a guy who actually crosses the plane still hasn't satisfied the booth??????), and everything I've ever heard them say about plays like this is that "control must survive contact with the ground" or something like that, and clearly it didn't. However, I'm not upset by the call, because, to me, it's a catch anyway.

- The second guy had nothing approximating control, unless you take into account the noteworthy skill with which he executed an entertaining and family-friendly juggling routine in the end zone, all while laying on his back. The conversation around this one was particularly fun, because it had something to do with whether the player with the ball had "become a runner" or not. Jesus effing Christ...how did football get to the point where the rules governing interpretation of the movements of an offensive player in possession of the ball has to depend on an arbitrary characterization of that player as a "runner"? He has the ball. How many steps he takes before he enters the end zone and/or loses the ball matters? NO. If you break the plane, all conversation should cease - TOUCHDOWN.

To sum up, I will say that if the team with the ball in those cases had been the Patriots, I would've been stunned to receive either touchdown, let alone both, not because they shouldn't have been touchdowns (I call a catch a catch) but because the rules are so messed up.

[DoctorZaius]

Very disappointed in my Pats because the game was there for the taking. You won't get me complaining about the reviews of the two catches in question. The NFL is just screwed up. Both could have gone either way. I hope that the NFL clears up just what a catch is. What I can't shake, however, is the greatest coach of all time benching Malcolm Bulter the whole game. The guy plays big in big games. There is a story here somewhere, one that I hope comes to light, because right now, I don't know who to blame: Belichick or Butler. Bench him for a quarter, or even a half, but a whole game? Either way, this was a game that we could have won with just a modicum of defense. That said, kudos to the Eagles. They deserve it for exposing our defense all night.

[Andi]

I know it's easy for me to say this because that decision didn't leave a Superbowl hanging in the balance for my team, but I wish more coaches had the balls to sit players like Belichick. I imagine Butler did something fairly stupid to be banished to special teams only and Belichick stuck to his guns. And while I don't like the Patriots, I absolutely respect Belichick and consider him the greatest of all time... even if he does 'massage' the rules on occasion.

[St. Troy]

The closest I've found to an explanation for the Butler mystery are these:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/960664146575527937
My understanding is the benching of #Patriots CB Malcolm Butler happened because of a perfect storm of issues: Sickness, a rough week of practice, and a minor rule violation believed to be related to curfew. A complicated matter.

https://twitter.com/kirkmin/status/960666715481890817
Source: Benching Butler not a discipline issue. Belichick made the call a few hours before game. Many coaches and players were shocked. Some players and coaches “furious” with Belichick, this is a move that divided the locker room.

As for the illness:
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2018/02/what_went_into_malcolm_butlers_benching_in_super_b owl_loss

He went to the hospital in Boston two Sundays ago to get treated for flu symptoms and wasn’t well enough the next day to fly with the team to Minneapolis, so he arrived Tuesday. Butler said he finally began to feel like himself by Thursday, so his practice snaps were limited on the previous days.

[St. Troy]

A bit more on Butler:
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/02/06/patriots-benched-one-time-super-bowl-hero-malcolm-butler-over-perfect-storm-issues-report.html

Patriots' Super Bowl hero Malcolm Butler benched due to weed and women, former teammate says

Butler's formers teammate on the Patriots, Brandon Browner, took to Instagram to defend him, writing "he not the first to get caught with weed...curfew also meant we are not allowed to have guest especially women."

[Jon]

Richard Sherman showed hall of fame talent then got hurt so we got rid of him. No... let's not trade him. Just release him outright.

"Oh gee. I hope he doesn't play in our division after we release him. D'oh!!"

[fernandito]

Didn't Sherman say something to the effect of 'I signed with the Niners because they were the only suitors who would permit me to face off against Seahawks twice a year'?

Damnnnn, talk about bad blood lol.

[Jon]

Didn't Sherman say something to the effect of 'I signed with the Niners because they were the only suitors who would permit me to face off against Seahawks twice a year'?

Damnnnn, talk about bad blood lol.




I'm a bad Seahawks fan. Does anyone have any insight on Earl Thomas flipping off the whole team when he was being carted off after breaking his leg (again)?

[Jon]

Since the onside kick off is so unsuccessful now with the new kickoff rules, the Commish has an idea to replace kickoffs.



I just wonder what you all think of it. Here's a description from the Commish himself:




NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has a favored replacement in mind (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/05/focus-on-making-the-punt-safer-could-be-a-precursor-to-a-bigger-change/), one he’s been talking about since at least 2012. In a shocking twist, his idea is brilliant. Rather than kicking the ball off a tee, the scoring team would get the ball on its own 30-yard line in a 4th-and-15 scenario. They could elect to punt, or they would have the option to go for it and keep possession with a successful conversion. Exciting!

[Lookwhoitis]

fuck Roger Goodell

[steven547]

I thought Brady's last win solidified him as the GOAT, or if nothing else was co-GOAT with Montana, and if there is as yet a discussion after this I may need to copy my home down. I've become so tired of tuning in to individuals banter if Brady is the GOAT or not it's authentic, adore him or despise him, love the golf guide (https://golfguides.info) Pats or abhor the Pats...Brady is the official, undisputed, GOAT.