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Matt
05-29-2007, 08:05 AM
Letti:


First I couldn't handle Mordred character but page by page I loved (the character) more and more. It was so complex... and interesting.
How he loved and hates Roland at the same time... how powerful and fragile he was.





**obviously story ending spoilers in thread**

There has been a lot of talk about spider boy, what he was for and what he wasn't.

I have read a lot of opinions on him from "weak as hell" to "super baddy written very well"

What is your official opinion about the child king that wasn't?


This thread has been merged by ~maerlyn

Hannah
05-29-2007, 08:25 AM
I always thought he was a little bit pointless. But, I'm not a deep thinker or anything and I tend to think of things at face value. He got rid of Randall Flagg (supposedly), so I guess that was his purpose? I don't know.

Matt
05-29-2007, 08:27 AM
I wondered that myself, if it was just going to be hard for SK to bring Flagg and Roland to the same place again and needed an arch baddy to finish him off.

I tend to agree though. This baby thing carried through the books from #3, always on everyones mind and then there was a bit of an anti climax.

It was one of the plot points I was really interested in for years.

Daghain
05-29-2007, 11:19 AM
I wasn't a big fan of Mordred, but I kind of felt sorry for him to. I think part of his appeal is that, no matter how rotten and nasty you think he is, you keep getting these glimpses of how he's always an outsider, like if someone just was nice to him he might not be so evil.

But yeah, I don't think he was necessary to the story.

Hannah
05-29-2007, 11:19 AM
Poor Mordred. So lost. So alone. :(

:lol: (I hated him. Stupid little Chap.)

Matt
05-29-2007, 11:51 AM
I wasn't a big fan of Mordred, but I kind of felt sorry for him to. I think part of his appeal is that, no matter how rotten and nasty you think he is, you keep getting these glimpses of how he's always an outsider, like if someone just was nice to him he might not be so evil.

But yeah, I don't think he was necessary to the story.

Its weird because no matter how much I hated him, or thought he was a wimp, I did feel sorry for him being outside the katet.

If that is the reaction King wanted, he totally got me.

Daghain
05-29-2007, 01:50 PM
Yeah, that whole scene where he's listening in on them and lamenting the fact that he's always on the outside. That did it.

ZoNeSeeK
05-29-2007, 05:21 PM
I think mordred was another element in the whole father-son theme King has running through the series with Roland, and because of this was supposed to be a more effective weapon against the gunslinger than anything purely material. And if you think about it, he was the most dangerous adversary as he dispatched Flagg effortlessly and killed off Oy aswell. The chapters where he becomes a potential threat and is hunting whats left of the ka-tet in my opinion was when the entire quest was on very dangerous ground.

Daghain
05-29-2007, 07:15 PM
Hmm, makes you wonder if King was trying to contrast Roland's biological son with his adopted son in some way.

*slips off to read Freud* :D

ZoNeSeeK
05-29-2007, 11:49 PM
The series is full of polarity - Detta and Odetta, White and Red, Mordred and Jake, the roont twin and their healthy counterpart in WotC.

VolsToTheWall
05-29-2007, 11:58 PM
^^Not a Mordred fan, but then again, one of the things I just got over and accepted. Kinda hard to please everyone all the time, even the junkies like myself, or maybe even harder to please I should say. ;)

Daghain
05-30-2007, 06:48 PM
The series is full of polarity - Detta and Odetta, White and Red, Mordred and Jake, the roont twin and their healthy counterpart in WotC.

A very good point!

Bethany
06-09-2007, 03:04 PM
To me Mordred reeked of soap opera drama. You know, two characters do something they're not supposed to, a PREGNANCY occurs and all kinds of drama revolves around the PREGNANCY. Then the writers are stuck with a baby, an unfortunate side effect of pregnancy, and having to deal with a new character is now where near as fun or exciting.

MonteGss
06-27-2007, 09:48 AM
I never had any problem with Mordred. He was a punk-ass (like Jonas :D) and a good "evil" character for the book. Obviously, Flagg and his twinners were much better characters but I thought the Little Spider-Punk was alright.

She-Oy
06-27-2007, 10:21 AM
To me Mordred reeked of soap opera drama. You know, two characters do something they're not supposed to, a PREGNANCY occurs and all kinds of drama revolves around the PREGNANCY. Then the writers are stuck with a baby, an unfortunate side effect of pregnancy, and having to deal with a new character is now where near as fun or exciting.

Gawww, yes. I can totally see Marlena giving birth to the mutant kid or some such on Days of Our Lives.

Mordred Deschain
07-02-2007, 04:37 PM
Well, I think I'm awesome!!! Just shoulda' been smarter than my daddy of the white!

Brice
07-03-2007, 04:20 AM
:lol:

Mordred Deschain
07-04-2007, 07:33 PM
Oh, and stop calling me "the chap"! That was soooooo pre-birth!! :)

Letti
12-25-2007, 01:33 AM
First I couldn't handle Mordred character but page by page I loved (the character) more and more. It was so complex... and interesting.
How he loved and hates Roland at the same time... how powerful and fragile he was.

CyberGhostface
12-25-2007, 10:19 AM
I hated Mordred. Probably the worst character in the entire Dark Tower series, and I would argue King's entire canon as well.

Letti
12-25-2007, 10:29 AM
And do you hate him so much because of the thing he had done to Flagg?

jayson
12-25-2007, 10:44 AM
As I said in the other thread, in my view, because of his unique parentage, Mordred was born evil, but not entirely evil. Becuase the CK is a much more powerful being than Roland, the evil side of Mordred was stronger, and guided much of his brief existence. I do think he was capable of love in some sense of the word, but the part of him that was fueled by hatred was significantly stronger.

CyberGhostface
12-25-2007, 01:32 PM
And do you hate him so much because of the thing he had done to Flagg?

That's part of it, (a large part probably) but I don't think its the sole reason. After all, I liked Eddie a lot and I didn't hate Pimli for killing him. In fact, Finli and Pimli were probably the best out of all the characters introduced in 5-7.

But there was nothing in my mind to like about Mordred. He was just poorly written with the writer's intentions clearly stamped all over his face.

The idea of the new character gaining credibility by knocking off a pre-existing one is just so cliched and pathetic it makes my stomach heave. I've seen it done before a couple of times in television and comics, but King is the first one who actually did it in an adult novel that I read, so kudos to him for that.

Matt
12-26-2007, 01:11 PM
Hmmmm...personally, I believe Roland could have turned Mordred to the white if he would have talked to him a bit.

Seemed to me the character struggled with his "destiny" throughout his short life. I'll never forgive him for what he did to Oy though.

Letti
12-26-2007, 02:00 PM
Hmmmm...personally, I believe Roland could have turned Mordred to the white if he would have talked to him a bit.

A bit???

Matt
12-26-2007, 02:03 PM
Well, the way time is, that bit could have been much more I suppose.

But I agree with you here Letti, I think Mordred struggled with what was inside of him and loneliness can drive a person even crazier than they already were.

jayson
12-26-2007, 02:08 PM
Well, the way time is, that bit could have been much more I suppose.

But I agree with you here Letti, I think Mordred struggled with what was inside of him and loneliness can drive a person even crazier than they already were.

I think Mordred would have stood a better chance of being turned towards the White once Big Red was dealt with. So long as the insane voice of his Red Daddy filled his mind, I don't think Mordred stood much of a chance of being turned away from hatred.

Letti
12-26-2007, 02:36 PM
For my part I do think that Mordred wasn't born totally evil but somehow... I can't imagine that Roland or anyone else could confince him to turn to the white. Mordred was damned...
He wanted power and revenge way too much.

Matt
12-26-2007, 02:44 PM
ah, I guess I don't agree then.

I got the feeling they could have shown him a bit of love and changed his mind. Roland was his father as well after all.

Letti
12-26-2007, 02:47 PM
ah, I guess I don't agree then.

I got the feeling they could have shown him a bit of love and changed his mind. Roland was his father as well after all.

And how could they have talked to him?
How can you imagine that situation? I am interested in it.

Matt
12-26-2007, 02:52 PM
Let him come close to the fire, get warm and maybe find out what he was about.

Roland palavered with Walter--ultimate hated badass, why not with Mordred?

Letti
12-26-2007, 03:07 PM
Let him come close to the fire, get warm and maybe find out what he was about.

Roland palavered with Walter--ultimate hated badass, why not with Mordred?

He had a lot of question he wanted to ask from Water but he didn't have questions to Mordred, did he?

Matt
12-26-2007, 03:14 PM
I believe enemies should always have questions of each other and if the opportunity to talk it out comes up, they should take it.

But what I am really trying to get at is Roland and his crew may have been able to reason with Mordred but that was not Ka I guess.

jayson
12-26-2007, 03:32 PM
I believe enemies should always have questions of each other and if the opportunity to talk it out comes up, they should take it.

But what I am really trying to get at is Roland and his crew may have been able to reason with Mordred but that was not Ka I guess.

I agree with you Matt but only when it comes to people, not supernatural creatures who have one parent who is evil incarnate. Mordred was spawned for one reason, to dispose of Roland. No small thanks to Oy, he failed.

Matt
12-26-2007, 03:34 PM
Sure, but in the text of the book he was not single minded. He was confused and conflicted.

I think ole Red made a mistake in the coupling because I read poor spider boy as frighteningly human in some parts.

CyberGhostface
12-26-2007, 05:03 PM
I seem to recall even if Mordred were to be accepted by Roland, Mordred would have refused him anyways because he didn't want to serve under him. Its not as if Mordred gave Roland an opportunity to talk either. So if its anyone's fault, it was Mordred's and Mordred's alone.

As for why Roland was able to talk with Walter and not Mordred...well, the circumstances were pretty different. The two didn't discuss their feelings with each other, Walter gave Roland a prophecy. I don't think either of them had much of a choice in the matter. And (at that moment at least) neither of them were trying to kill the other.

jayson
12-27-2007, 04:13 AM
I seem to recall even if Mordred were to be accepted by Roland, Mordred would have refused him anyways because he didn't want to serve under him. Its not as if Mordred gave Roland an opportunity to talk either. So if its anyone's fault, it was Mordred's and Mordred's alone.

As for why Roland was able to talk with Walter and not Mordred...well, the circumstances were pretty different. The two didn't discuss their feelings with each other, Walter gave Roland a prophecy. I don't think either of them had much of a choice in the matter. And (at that moment at least) neither of them were trying to kill the other.

I agree on both counts. It seemed pretty clear from the text that while Mordred did have some longing feelings for Roland and his "family," Mordred's hatred of Roland was significantly stronger. Like I said, so long as Los was present in End-World, Mordred wasn't going to supplicate to Roland.

Mike Beck
12-27-2007, 05:53 PM
i wanted to like mordred. parts of me did. i just feel that king didn't know what to do with him. i got into some of the confliction within him, but not enough to really care what happened to his character, which really didn't serve much of a purpose.

what did he do?

well, he had that run-in with an incredible character that rhymes with Smandall Smlagg.

he leaves. he follows the ka-tet. he watches. he follows roland. he watches. he has another run-in, this time with another character much more interesting than he is. he talks to some birds. he follows roland. he tries to kill roland. he kills oy. roland kills mordred. mordred done.

great.

Letti
12-27-2007, 10:16 PM
Why did you want to like him, Mike?

Mike Beck
12-28-2007, 05:21 AM
i wanted to like his character, missy. not exactly saying i want to hang out with the dude and go bowling, or anything. :D

MonteGss
12-28-2007, 04:03 PM
:lol:
Liar. You wanted to make out with him and loooooove him. ;)

Darkthoughts
12-29-2007, 06:38 AM
Ooooooh! Mike and Mordred in a tree... :lol:

Mike Beck
12-29-2007, 09:03 AM
hey! c'mon, you guys!

Ok. I did want to loooooove him, but he broke my fuckin' heart and stole half my money!!!

Darkthoughts
12-29-2007, 09:12 AM
I kind of agree with you though Mike. I loved Song of Susannah, and Mordred was obviously an integral part of that - but Mordred himself was slightly redundant as a character. I felt Oy was also cheated being murdered by him :(

jayson
12-30-2007, 05:43 AM
I felt Oy was also cheated being murdered by him :(

While I was grief-stricken by Oy's death, that battle was the only part of Mordred's presence I really "liked." Putting aside his inexcusable presence as Walter's doom, I thought Mordred did make a good final test for Oy. Poor little guy stood as true as Eddie or Jake did at their final moments, and he likely as not saved Roland's life. If King only used Mordred as a way of giving Oy a final stand I'd venture to say he'd have been a lot less controversial a character. Maybe next time King does his loop he'll write it differently.

ATG
01-15-2008, 08:45 PM
I hated Mordred. Probably the worst character in the entire Dark Tower series, and I would argue King's entire canon as well.

Wow, that's pretty harsh.

Wuducynn
01-15-2008, 08:50 PM
Don't let Cyber fool you, he really loves Mordred, this is just his little way of getting over his death. We all have been very understanding of Cyber's emotional needs in trying to detach himself, to make letting go easier. We've even suggested pooling some money to fly him to Chicago so he could go on Oprah, but that didn't work out.

Aesculapius
01-15-2008, 11:23 PM
:lol:

Letti
01-15-2008, 11:24 PM
The srtongest feeling I felt for Mordred was pity.

Aesculapius
01-15-2008, 11:34 PM
It would be nice to curl up in the corner of the ceiling, though. :D

Brice
01-17-2008, 12:24 PM
You mean you can't? :ninja:

Letti
01-17-2008, 12:32 PM
It would be nice to curl up in the corner of the ceiling, though. :D

Yeah... and to eat rats...

CyberGhostface
01-19-2008, 12:38 PM
Wow, that's pretty harsh.

I can't think of anyone who brought a story down more than Mordred. Its harsh, but its true. Had Mordred never existed Book 7 would have been 25% better. Its been statistically proven by Stephen Hawking.

Here's something that should have happened in WotC. Maybe I should make a post about in another forum.

Callahan: "If you give Susannah an abortion, I will turn the town against you."

Roland: "Hey, we're here to save your ass, not the other way around. So go ahead. Turn the town against me. And if you do, don't come crying when you have no one to pull your ass out of the frying pan and the wolves burn the entire town to the ground."

Callahan: "... Alright, where's the nearest clotheshanger?"

MonteGss
01-28-2008, 10:31 PM
I voted that he was born evil. He was a great character.

LadyHitchhiker
01-28-2008, 11:24 PM
:lol:
Liar. You wanted to make out with him and loooooove him. ;)

He's mine, bitch! *slap* :arg:

Storyslinger
01-29-2008, 09:06 AM
Pure evil, he ate a baby bumbler.

Letti
01-29-2008, 09:11 AM
Pure evil, he ate a baby bumbler.
I think Roland would have eaten baby bumbler too if he hadn't found anything else.

Storyslinger
01-29-2008, 09:12 AM
Atleast he would have cooked it ;)

Letti
01-29-2008, 09:15 AM
And does it make any difference, huh? :)

Storyslinger
01-29-2008, 09:16 AM
in taste it does :lol:

CyberGhostface
01-29-2008, 12:54 PM
Yeah, but somehow if Roland killed a bumbler I think he'd be more humane than disemboweling it and eating its entrails while the bumbler cries for its family...but hey, that's just my opinion.

jayson
01-29-2008, 01:07 PM
yeah, he'd at least cook it

Matt
01-29-2008, 01:46 PM
So its not eating something, its how you eat it? :lol:

jayson
01-29-2008, 01:48 PM
or how much joy you take in the actual killing part.

Storyslinger
01-31-2008, 09:35 AM
or, what you spice it with...............:unsure:

nevermind

:lol:

CyberGhostface
01-31-2008, 04:54 PM
Eating a cheeseburger is one thing, torturing and mutilating the cow before eating it raw is another thing entirely.

Wuducynn
01-31-2008, 05:51 PM
Damn, now I want some tortured cow steak...

MonteGss
02-20-2008, 03:46 PM
I was just thinking how cool it would be to be a were-spider. Assuming, of course, I could be a "good" were-spider. :D

LadyHitchhiker
03-21-2008, 10:58 AM
It would indeed be cool... to make webs, to climb walls....

obscurejude
03-21-2008, 11:17 AM
A lot of people have expressed pity for Mordred, but it is hard for me to because of the grotesque image of his birth. He came into the world with a hard on, he clamped down on his mother's genitalia, and then he ate her after sucking at her bosom. Granted, I guess it could be argued that in the infant state all behavior is instinctive. As Mordred ages (rapidly), he becomes increasingly complex. I don't know...I found that he was a hard character to figure out and frustrating for me personally. He seemed to be a clear antagonist at first, and then it got confusing. He just seemed unnecessary.

Letti
03-21-2008, 11:36 AM
A lot of people have expressed pity for Mordred, but it is hard for me to because of the grotesque image of his birth. He came into the world with a hard on, he clamped down on his mother's genitalia, and then he ate her after sucking at her bosom. Granted, I guess it could be argued that in the infant state all behavior is instinctive. As Mordred ages (rapidly), he becomes increasingly complex. I don't know...I found that he was a hard character to figure out and frustrating for me personally. He seemed to be a clear antagonist at first, and then it got confusing. He just seemed unnecessary.

I felt something very similar at the first time. I felt I would never be able to accept that character. I would never be able to get used to it...
but thank God I could.

mia/susannah
03-21-2008, 12:00 PM
I felt and still feel great sympathy for Mordred. He was so lonely and angry. and filled with love and hate for Roland and his ka-tet. It was his destiny to try and destroy Roland but wonderful oy, who I still grieve, saved Rolands life. :cry:

Letti
03-21-2008, 12:15 PM
I wouldn't say "full of love" but yeah... there was some love in him.

LadyHitchhiker
03-21-2008, 02:11 PM
I feel pity for lots of creatures, even the undeserving.

Empath of the White
06-18-2008, 02:57 PM
I started to pity him towards the end of the tale (jeez just look at my user name) and that mayhap it would take Mia and Roland to bring him to the side of the White. In fact, I've come to think that Mordred is yet another "Horn" in that his conversion to the White, or at least some measure of love from his White Father, is required for Roland to break the loop.

Mordred Deschain
06-18-2008, 05:14 PM
ahhh..talk is cheap

LadyHitchhiker
06-18-2008, 05:16 PM
I started to pity him towards the end of the tale (jeez just look at my user name) and that mayhap it would take Mia and Roland to bring him to the side of the White. In fact, I've come to think that Mordred is yet another "Horn" in that his conversion to the White, or at least some measure of love from his White Father, is required for Roland to break the loop.

That was an awesome opinion and very fresh and new. I would very much like to agree with you!! :D

Ves'Ka Gan
06-18-2008, 10:08 PM
I started to pity him towards the end of the tale (jeez just look at my user name) and that mayhap it would take Mia and Roland to bring him to the side of the White. In fact, I've come to think that Mordred is yet another "Horn" in that his conversion to the White, or at least some measure of love from his White Father, is required for Roland to break the loop.

That was an awesome opinion and very fresh and new. I would very much like to agree with you!! :D
I don't agree. I think it's an interesting perspective, but I don't think of Mordred in that way at all. For one, as we've discussed, Mordred wanted nothing more than to kill Roland. Part of him may have wanted to be included and loved, but that was only a small percentage.

Secondly, (IMO) Gan wishing Roland to "love" his son seems a little ridiculous, given that Roland was tricked into fathering him through some incredibly unusual circumstances. I don't think it's the same as some illegitamate child that Roland should take some responisibility for or show some great fatherly love.

Jean
06-19-2008, 12:09 AM
Mordred is yet another "Horn" in that his conversion to the White, or at least some measure of love from his White Father, is required for Roland to break the loop.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gif

I am not sure I think the same, but I like the idea, as it has been the case with some others, for its noble madness!

Letti
06-19-2008, 12:28 AM
I started to pity him towards the end of the tale (jeez just look at my user name) and that mayhap it would take Mia and Roland to bring him to the side of the White. In fact, I've come to think that Mordred is yet another "Horn" in that his conversion to the White, or at least some measure of love from his White Father, is required for Roland to break the loop.

What an interesting idea. I don't think that I can agree but still. BUT!
To tell you the truth when I was reading book 7 I hoped to find some empathy in Roland's words.. not love.. not care but a tiny but of empathy or understanding. I was looking for it. But Roland was always as cold as a dead tree when he was talking about Mordred.. so I feel it would be a damn big development for Roland if he could feel anything about Mordred.

Darkthoughts
06-19-2008, 05:04 AM
I haven't answered the poll yet because I'm generally a great believer in the behaviourist's mantra that, all behaviour is learned.
This means, in a nature/nuture debate i generally side with nurture - although I do also believe that we develop a very distinct personality of our own in the womb, much as we develop our own set of unique fingerprints.

So, with this in mind I was thinking - well, Mordred can't have been evil from the get go as the influence the CK had on him dictated his behaviour to an extreme degree.

Then I thought, wait...thats contradictory, because he was evil from the get go...he ate his own mother minutes after he was born!!

But...I'm now actually sticking with my nuture opinion, because it also seems obvious from the things Susannah/Mia did for the chap, when he was in utero, that the CK was influencing and nuturing him even then.

In those brief moments when Mordred viewed the ka-tet with a longing to be included, I felt he could have been redeemed - but it would have had to have started in the womb...for the Mordred that had already been born, his Red Father's will was too powerful for him to disobey.

I don't think he was ever developed enough as a character for me to feel sorry for him though, he was almost an object in that way. Certainly just a pawn to the CK, despite what he told Mordred.

Letti
06-19-2008, 05:17 AM
I don't say that Mordred was an angel BUT we mustn't forget that a big part of him was an animal, a spider in fact and there are lots of spiders who eat their parent when they get out of the egg.

Mordred Deschain
06-19-2008, 07:46 AM
I think any of the parts when I...er..Mordred thought about being with Roland was out of strict jealousy because of the bond of friendship with the ka-tet. I don't believe for a second that I...er Mordred ever had any such idea of being good. And I do think that the spider part of him would have always won with hunger. It would have been a mistake to trust me...er..Mordred at any point in the story.:evil:

theBeamisHome
06-19-2008, 09:07 AM
I don't think Mordred wanted to be good like umm... Mordred said, but he was lonely.. he was half human too and half White (good, not race wise lol), but Red Daddy just dominated him.. but at the same time I wasn't sure if he really wanted to rule with CK or if his sole motivation was just to kill Roland.. it seemed that was really all he wanted... since he couldn't be one of them.

Babymordred121
06-30-2008, 05:14 PM
I believe that Mordred had the potential to be a good person, but he wasn't given the chance.

One can't just claim that Mordred was evil at birth. He acted just like any other infant; he blindly demanded what he wanted. That's all that infants do; they don't care where they get their food, they just take it. The act of eating Mia (who wasn't his mother, for the record, was stated several times not to have had any actual relation to Mordred) was simply a natural reaction that any infant would make if they had similar abilities.

He's compared to a vampire a couple of times in the story, leading me to think there was at least a little "You are what you eat" going on there. He consumes the minds of a deranged succubus, a half-crazed champion of chaos, a traitorous shape-shifter, and a disease-ridden horse. All those black souls must have had a disastrous effect on his developing mind. If his mind was growing at such a rapid rate after his birth, it must have been constructed off of the information he was receiving from psychic consumption including everything that was being spoon-fed to him by his malevolent half-demon father.

Truly, he became evil because evil was all he was ever exposed to, his actual mother, Susannah, included. The only contact he ever had with her was when she shot him for doing what infants have always done. If he were to have any chance at becoming good, he would have had to experience any benefits from it. The only thing he experienced from the "good" characters was pain, anguish and, eventually, death.

I believe that, if Roland had taken any interest in raising his son rather than simply killing him because of his superstitions, Mordred would have turned out an alright man. Both had an interest in forming a relationship with the other, but both were too frightened by their preconceptions of the other to do anything about it. Mordred was afraid he'd be dominated by his White daddy just as he had been by his Red daddy, as Mordred confirmed with "I'll never call him (Roland) dihn! Never!". Roland himself, despite his big talk, also had feelings for his son, trying to reason with him during Mordred's assault on Roland and Oy. After Roland had killed Mordred, The Crimson King began screaming about into the mind of Roland about Mordred's death, vowing revenge, to which Roland claimed that he hated himself just as much as the Crimson King did for having killed their son.

Mordred Deschain
06-30-2008, 05:23 PM
I still think that there would be no controlling the spider half. If he got to a-hungry, I do not think it would have mattered if he was choosing to be "good" he would have gotten more irritated and his spider half is kind of like the Incredible Hulk. More irrational than rational.

theBeamisHome
07-01-2008, 10:13 AM
he could only eat bad people... kinda like how Dexter only kills killers... just a thought

Babymordred121
07-05-2008, 02:04 PM
Yeah, but Dexter chooses his victims. Mordred's only option was killing bad people.

Letti
07-05-2008, 02:18 PM
he could only eat bad people... kinda like how Dexter only kills killers... just a thought

For my part I am sure Mordred would have eaten Mother Teresa with pleasure.

Wuducynn
07-05-2008, 02:23 PM
he could only eat bad people... kinda like how Dexter only kills killers... just a thought

For my part I am sure Mordred would have eaten Mother Teresa with pleasure.

What self respecting, were-spider wouldn't?

Letti
07-05-2008, 02:26 PM
Right Matthew. :)
Moreover the way I see it Mia wasn't absolutely a bad person. She wasn't an angel either but she wasn't evil.

Babymordred121
07-06-2008, 04:04 PM
Yeah, Mia was pretty much just a maniac in regards to motherhood, but her level of dementia couldn't have helped much.
I agree that Mordred would have eaten good people as well as bad if he had been given the chance, but I believe he would have eventually developed a greater sense of morality if he had.

Mordred Deschain
07-07-2008, 06:14 PM
I dont think that Mia's disposition had anything to do with why Mordred fed on her. In general, baby spiders feed on the dead mother. I think Mia AND Susannah were suppose to be his first meals. I actually think that all the others in the room were also suppose to be his first meals. That's how he was suppose to have fended off his hunger. I don't think good or bad in his victims was even a consideration. He ate a diseased horse for Gan's sake.

Babymordred121
07-09-2008, 04:10 PM
I'm not saying that whether they were good or bad was a consideration in his choice of prey; I'm saying that, as a psychic vampire, Mordred's personality was influenced by the personalities of those he ate. Kind of like how a flamingo turns pink because it eats pink shrimp, Mordred turned evil because he ate evil people.

LemurJones
07-09-2008, 04:42 PM
I voted "I can't vote because..." because I find it to be kind of insulting and a little bit racist to suggest that anyone could be "born" good or evil due in some part to their parents. It shouldn't matter who Mordred's ancestors were. In the same way, it shouldn't matter who he ate, except for the diarrhea parts. Your soul doesn't get chopped up if you lose a leg, so why would it get eaten if something ate your body?

We have to remember that Mordred never made it past infancy. He was a mutant were-spider with uncontrollable instincts to eat anything and anyone in front of him, and because of that he ate the only person who actually loved and cared about him. Susannah and Roland could have been a guiding influence to him, as the only sane, mature, and supposedly good adults that he ever met. Instead, they ignored him and treated him like a monster to be put down. His only other adult influence was freaking Walter, who only saw him as a thing to kill and use to fuel his own greed. He pretty much spent his entire life trying to teach himself how to be a person based off of his experiences with getting shot at, getting manipulated, and being left alone to dwell on his own jealousy and loneliness.

I wouldn't call Mordred a villain, because if anyone had ever stepped in to fill the role of parent or caretaker he wouldn't have been what he was. It's not like someone taught him how to be a good person and that he decided to be the opposite- he was left to figure out who he was and how the world worked based on watching two people who hated and wanted to see him die, even though he only really wanted them to care about him.

I wouldn't call him a good person, because you can't say he was one, but... well, put it this way, if there's a Heaven I think he would go there.

Letti
07-09-2008, 11:04 PM
I wouldn't call him a good person, because you can't say he was one, but... well, put it this way, if there's a Heaven I think he would go there.

Quuite interesting. I think he would feel incredibly uncomfortable over there however I can't name a place he would feel much better.

CyberGhostface
07-11-2008, 09:27 AM
If there's a Hell, I would hope Mordred's burning there right now. And if Mother Abigail's right about Flagg keeping counsel with Satan, hopefully Old Scratch would let him be the one who burns him. :evil:

LemurJones
07-11-2008, 09:51 AM
If there's a Hell, I would hope Mordred's burning there right now. And if Mother Abigail's right about Flagg keeping counsel with Satan, hopefully Old Scratch would let him be the one who burns him. :evil:

:\ I wouldn't hope anybody would go to hell.

The thing about Mordred is that even though he was one of King's more literal "monsters", if you go by the actions and motives he had, he was pretty tame compared to pretty much all of King's human bad guys.

CyberGhostface
07-11-2008, 11:25 AM
Well, I guess it would depend on who I'm wishing into Hell. Obviously people like Adolf Hitler, Christopher Colombus, Pol Pot and Stalin would deserve to burn in Hell for their crimes. People like Ed Gein, on the other hand, are more sad and pathetic.

As for Mordred...I have few qualms with wishing any fictional character would go to Hell. And I'm having a hard time thinking of any human characters who are worse than Mordred...maybe Denker from Apt Pupil.

Letti
07-14-2008, 10:21 AM
There are lots of things that come to my mind when I am thinking or speaking about Mordred but "tame" is not among them. :)

Mordred Deschain
07-14-2008, 01:51 PM
Well, I guess it would depend on who I'm wishing into Hell. Obviously people like Adolf Hitler, Christopher Colombus, Pol Pot and Stalin would deserve to burn in Hell for their crimes. People like Ed Gein, on the other hand, are more sad and pathetic.


I don't mean to start a debate about who should go to hell or not, but I always like to look at the entire picture. Who should really go to hell, the people you think should, or the weak people who let them do what they did? And really, I don't mean anything by this, but it makes me wonder if people would have just stood up and said "HEY ADOLF, YOU FCK HEAD, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?"

CyberGhostface
07-16-2008, 12:13 PM
I think it was either A.) People who supported Hitler, B.) People who had no idea what was going on, or C.) People who were scared that they'd be killed if they spoke up. Not many people really knew about the extent of his evil until it was too late. Chaplin, for example, has said he wouldn't have portrayed Hitler so lightly if he had known how far he had gone.

I wonder if anyone's seen the "Lil' Hitler" skit on Robot Chicken. YouTube - Lil' Hitler

jayson
07-16-2008, 01:14 PM
I think it was either A.) People who supported Hitler, B.) People who had no idea what was going on, or C.) People who were scared that they'd be killed if they spoke up. Not many people really knew about the extent of his evil until it was too late. Chaplin, for example, has said he wouldn't have portrayed Hitler so lightly if he had known how far he had gone.

I wonder if anyone's seen the "Lil' Hitler" skit on Robot Chicken. YouTube - Lil' Hitler (http://youtube.com/watch?v=KDRa9I-NwDY)

It's all of the above. A LOT can be attributed to the German people living in fear. Propaganda works.

Also, that Lil Hitler bit on Robot Chicken is great. Anyone here ever watch Mr. Show and remember the Hitler clones?

Letti
07-16-2008, 01:15 PM
We have just got a "he was born good" vote! Who was it?

CyberGhostface
07-16-2008, 02:32 PM
Yeah, I know all the options were true, I was just listing the ones I knew.

I'm curious as to who said Mordred was born good...I mean, he was a sentient being who was able to have mature thoughts at infancy (I.E. not some mindless animal or creature who didn't know better) and he ate his mother.

Mordred Deschain
07-16-2008, 06:20 PM
Yeah, I know all the options were true, I was just listing the ones I knew.

I'm curious as to who said Mordred was born good...I mean, he was a sentient being who was able to have mature thoughts at infancy (I.E. not some mindless animal or creature who didn't know better) and he ate his mother.

Ahhhh....but see I...er Mordred had sentient thoughts, but not the wisdom. And I seem to have gotten the idea that Mordred (no matter his parents) was bred for one purpose. To help destroy the tower and rule next to his red father in the darkness. He may have had the ability to make his own choices and who knows if Roland would have tried to nurture him, things may have been different (a different level of the tower), but it seemed to me that it was all pre-ordained. or it was his destiny to try and destroy Roland.

obscurejude
07-16-2008, 10:11 PM
Those are good points Mordred. Mordred was a genetically engineered freak. I think its another example of King sending out a flare concerning the dangers and limited potential of technology.

CyberGhostface
07-17-2008, 08:00 AM
Ahhhh....but see I...er Mordred had sentient thoughts, but not the wisdom. And I seem to have gotten the idea that Mordred (no matter his parents) was bred for one purpose. To help destroy the tower and rule next to his red father in the darkness. He may have had the ability to make his own choices and who knows if Roland would have tried to nurture him, things may have been different (a different level of the tower), but it seemed to me that it was all pre-ordained. or it was his destiny to try and destroy Roland.

Right. So he wasn't born good. And even if Roland were to reach out to the little bastard, Mordred stated that he would never be able to look at Roland as dinh like Jake would.

Empath of the White
07-20-2008, 05:45 PM
I was the born good vote...I think. In any case I've argued that he could've been brought over to the ka-tet's side in the conflict. I kinda think he's like Venom: there was lots of potential that could've been explored with a little planning.

Letti
07-20-2008, 10:03 PM
I was the born good vote...I think. In any case I've argued that he could've been brought over to the ka-tet's side in the conflict. I kinda think he's like Venom: there was lots of potential that could've been explored with a little planning.

Thank you for letting us know it.
Your vote made the poll much more interesting.

Empath of the White
07-21-2008, 07:24 PM
What an interesting idea. I don't think that I can agree but still. BUT! To tell you the truth when I was reading book 7 I hoped to find some empathy in Roland's words.. not love.. not care but a tiny but of empathy or understanding. I was looking for it. But Roland was always as cold as a dead tree when he was talking about Mordred.. so I feel it would be a damn big development for Roland if he could feel anything about Mordred.

I think he actually did feel something for Mordred. I was rereading the last book and came to the part where Roland palavers with Jake in Thunderclap. Jake found one of Mordred's hairs and started asking about the spiderboy. Now, I think if Oy had been given the hair, he could've sniffed Mordred out and the gunslingers could've either capped him in his sleep or at least got the jump on Mordred. Yet Roland chose to let Mordred be.

Sure, the Devar-Toi and the Breakers were a big priority, but it wouldn't have taken too long, I don't think, to find and put an end to Mordred in his sleep.

obscurejude
07-21-2008, 08:27 PM
What an interesting idea. I don't think that I can agree but still. BUT! To tell you the truth when I was reading book 7 I hoped to find some empathy in Roland's words.. not love.. not care but a tiny but of empathy or understanding. I was looking for it. But Roland was always as cold as a dead tree when he was talking about Mordred.. so I feel it would be a damn big development for Roland if he could feel anything about Mordred.

I think he actually did feel something for Mordred. I was rereading the last book and came to the part where Roland palavers with Jake in Thunderclap. Jake found one of Mordred's hairs and started asking about the spiderboy. Now, I think if Oy had been given the hair, he could've sniffed Mordred out and the gunslingers could've either capped him in his sleep or at least got the jump on Mordred. Yet Roland chose to let Mordred be.

Sure, the Devar-Toi and the Breakers were a big priority, but it wouldn't have taken too long, I don't think, to find and put an end to Mordred in his sleep.

Didn't Roland also give a speech to Jake about how he wasn't sure what Mordred was and how it is best to just wait in those situations. I would challenge your post by the fact that Roland smiled when he shot Mordred and watched him burn in the campfire.

CyberGhostface
07-24-2008, 08:28 AM
I think Roland's general consensus was (and my memory is a bit hazy being that it's been a long time since I reread the series) was "I won't go after Mordred if he won't go after me, but if he does, I will kill him without hesitation".

As for feeling anything for Mordred, I think Roland saw Jake as more of a son than Mordred could ever be.

Letti
07-27-2008, 10:33 AM
What an interesting idea. I don't think that I can agree but still. BUT! To tell you the truth when I was reading book 7 I hoped to find some empathy in Roland's words.. not love.. not care but a tiny but of empathy or understanding. I was looking for it. But Roland was always as cold as a dead tree when he was talking about Mordred.. so I feel it would be a damn big development for Roland if he could feel anything about Mordred.

I think he actually did feel something for Mordred. I was rereading the last book and came to the part where Roland palavers with Jake in Thunderclap. Jake found one of Mordred's hairs and started asking about the spiderboy. Now, I think if Oy had been given the hair, he could've sniffed Mordred out and the gunslingers could've either capped him in his sleep or at least got the jump on Mordred. Yet Roland chose to let Mordred be.

Sure, the Devar-Toi and the Breakers were a big priority, but it wouldn't have taken too long, I don't think, to find and put an end to Mordred in his sleep.

You might be right but I feel he just didn't give a damn about him. Roland wasn't afraid of him at all and didn't see real power in him. So he didn't waste his time.

flaggwalkstheline
10-29-2008, 09:27 AM
i think mordred wasnt born evil but he wasnt born good either, mordred is a victim of circumstance, what happened happened and he couldnt do anything to control his ka

That said when people talk about how mad they r that he killed flagg i think that they should remember that flagg is the ultimate trickster and throughout all the stories with him in them he is never as powerful in the end as he initially appeared to be, that was part of the reason for the wizard of oz comparison/ reference in dt4, to prove that flagg is in the end a humbug who uses fear rather than power to get what he wants

a whole theme in the 7th book seems to be how nothing is ever as strong as you think it is initially whether good or evil, mordred, flagg, the CK, even roland himself and that fits with the deaths/ ka of all of those characters

Mordred Deschain
10-29-2008, 02:00 PM
That said when people talk about how mad they r that he killed flagg i think that they should remember that flagg is the ultimate trickster and throughout all the stories with him in them he is never as powerful in the end as he initially appeared to be, that was part of the reason for the wizard of oz comparison/ reference in dt4, to prove that flagg is in the end a humbug who uses fear rather than power to get what he wants


This I like. I was upset that Flagg died so easily, but ya, in The Stand it's basically the same thing. I don't mean exact, of course,

but even know Flagg has that last power show when he creates a flame that rolls down on that one guy who stands up to him and then spreads all over the guy(just before Trash comes back with the nuke), he was loosing his power and he was controlling Vegas thru fear.

Ya, it makes sense.

And hey, Flaggwalkstheline

When do you think the Flagg in Wizard and Glass was from? It has to be after the Nuke, because of the reference when Tick Tock says "my life for you" and Flagg says something about a friend used to say that too (or something). right? So that means he would have had to regain his power while on that island, right?

LadyHitchhiker
10-29-2008, 02:56 PM
I'm not sure about the after the stand thing, because who knows how many people have said "my life for you" to the Flagg man?

flaggwalkstheline
10-29-2008, 03:57 PM
i didnt say flagg has no power but its mostly just show, just a song and dance which actually in my opinion makes him cooler than if he actually were an all powerful wizard

LadyHitchhiker
10-29-2008, 04:00 PM
I think he has a lot of power but the source is unstable.

Mordred Deschain
10-29-2008, 05:21 PM
i didnt say flagg has no power but its mostly just show, just a song and dance which actually in my opinion makes him cooler than if he actually were an all powerful wizard

I hear you. I just never put it together before

Hbgunslinger
10-29-2008, 08:56 PM
I just read this thread so forgive me I know not who posted what i'm going to reference.
Someone said why instead of trying to palaver with Mordred he just killed him. (if my memory serves me correct)
I in Rolands place would have done the same thing. He did kill Oy which right there makes him deserve a long and painful death. I voted that he was evil, but good as well because of the fact that Roland was in fact half of his father. I think It would have taken alot for him to ever even begin to be "good". I'm not sure if Roland or Susannah or even Mia could have changed him from what he was.
Also the fact that I hate and am afraid of spiders doesn't help the fact that I couldn't see hm being good.
However, I think that if he was in the books a bit longer we could have seen more of him and maybe gotten a better idea of what his reaction would have been IF Roland had tried to talk to him. I when reading WOTC and SOS was truly expecting him to be in it more. Maybe immediatley in the beggining of SOS if he was born and then we would have had more time to watch him and observe him. Just my 2cents. I don't know if that makes sense.
If I was in Rolands position during Blue Heavan I would have hunted him down and killed him when I found his tracks outside the cave. I would have never let him live.

LadyHitchhiker
10-30-2008, 04:44 AM
I personally thought that Mordred was beyond palaver. His spider instincts were so strong that his mind was completely alien to Roland's and he only desired food. For one thing, he was too young.

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 12:34 PM
By virtue of the fact that this thread is about a character that is soley involved in the last book, do you folk really think it's necessary for all the spoiler tags?

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 12:37 PM
I personally thought that Mordred was beyond palaver. His spider instincts were so strong that his mind was completely alien to Roland's and he only desired food. For one thing, he was too young.

Mordred was able to talk with anyone, so he could palaver with Roland.

flaggwalkstheline
10-30-2008, 12:38 PM
yes i do, mordred may have appeared in the last book but his creation went through books 1,3,5 and 6 before he was born

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 12:41 PM
yes i do, mordred may have appeared in the last book but his creation went through books 1,3,5 and 6 before he was born

His character ONLY takes place in the last book.

Letti
10-30-2008, 01:13 PM
Roland and Mordred's palaver would have been absolutely cold, damn short and painful. It's better it never happened.

Mordred Deschain
10-30-2008, 01:17 PM
I personally thought that Mordred was beyond palaver. His spider instincts were so strong that his mind was completely alien to Roland's and he only desired food. For one thing, he was too young.

Mordred was able to talk with anyone, so he could palaver with Roland.

you say true, except it doesn't matter if he could talk or not, he palavered with Flagg. And he may have eaten him, and he may have had hunger on his mind, but he saw in Walter/Flagg's mind that Flagg was going to kill him and cut off the foot with the mark so he could enter the tower.

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 02:58 PM
you say true, except it doesn't matter if he could talk or not, he palavered with Flagg. And he may have eaten him, and he may have had hunger on his mind, but he saw in Walter/Flagg's mind that Flagg was going to kill him and cut off the foot with the mark so he could enter the tower.

Yeah, I was just replying to Liz's post about Mordred being "beyond palaver". If he wanted he could do almost anything he'd like. He palavered with Rando Thoughtful a bit before making him his brunch.

LadyHitchhiker
10-30-2008, 03:01 PM
Perhjaps I missed the whole intelligent conversation thing from Mordered.... But I am rereading the whole series again so I shall reserve my complete irrevocable judgement :)

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 03:02 PM
Palaver doesn't necessarily mean "intelligent" conversation. It just means "chat" or "conversation" or "talk".

LadyHitchhiker
10-30-2008, 03:12 PM
So can Oy palaver then by that definition?

Wuducynn
10-30-2008, 03:21 PM
In a very limited way with probably just Jake, yeah. I'd say so. But it just means chatting or having a talk.

LadyHitchhiker
10-30-2008, 03:40 PM
Well for some reason I got the impression that Mordred - other than talking in others' heads - had less of a vocabulary than Oy.

flaggwalkstheline
10-30-2008, 04:34 PM
mordred may have been capable of intelligent conversion but i dont think he was capable of civil conversation and the distinction between the two is vast

LadyHitchhiker
10-30-2008, 07:13 PM
well that for certain we can agree on!

Letti
10-30-2008, 10:07 PM
In a very limited way with probably just Jake, yeah. I'd say so. But it just means chatting or having a talk.

I absolutely agree. And I think he could talk with Roland as well. They could work together amazingly when they went to save Jake.


Well for some reason I got the impression that Mordred - other than talking in others' heads - had less of a vocabulary than Oy.

We mustn't forget that when Mordred ate something he got their feelings and knowledge as well. (I hope I remember well.) So after eating Flagg he was absolutely capable of speaking as much as he wanted.

Jean
10-31-2008, 12:08 AM
Palaver doesn't necessarily mean "intelligent" conversation. It just means "chat" or "conversation" or "talk".
I think, however, that it involves all parts concerned listening to what other parts have say; not just watching for them to get distracted so they could be stung, paralyzed, and eaten.

Brice
10-31-2008, 03:37 AM
Roland and Mordred's palaver would have been absolutely cold, damn short and painful. It's better it never happened.

...and do you think there'd have been much :huglove: hugging involved?



Palaver doesn't necessarily mean "intelligent" conversation. It just means "chat" or "conversation" or "talk".
I think, however, that it involves all parts concerned listening to what other parts have say; not just watching for them to get distracted so they could be stung, paralyzed, and eaten.

This has always been my manner of conversation. :evil:

flaggwalkstheline
11-01-2008, 09:40 PM
palaver is (to my knowledge) a civil discourse between anyone friends or enemies, since mordred could not be civil, he could not palaver roland palavered with the man in black who said (one of my favorite quotes) "friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty, only enemies speak the truth"

Chap
11-12-2008, 04:56 PM
As my nick and sig might suggest, I'm a fan of Mordred :blush:
I can see some of myself in him (not the whole eating your mother part or transforming into a spider of course), and I believe there was some "good" in him, but his instincts and the lack of guidance became his undoing.
I don't like how he ate my favourite DT villain though :cry:

Wuducynn
11-12-2008, 05:39 PM
(not the whole eating your mother part or transforming into a spider of course)

Awwwwwwwwwww. He couldn't help how delicious she was.

Chap
11-12-2008, 05:46 PM
(not the whole eating your mother part or transforming into a spider of course)

Awwwwwwwwwww. He couldn't help how delicious she was.

I wouldn't mind eating Mia myself :thumbsup:

and by eating I don't mean chewing and swallowing.

Wuducynn
11-12-2008, 06:09 PM
I wouldn't mind eating Mia myself :thumbsup:

and by eating I don't mean chewing and swallowing.

I am with you all the way!

melliferal
01-16-2009, 06:49 AM
To me Mordred reeked of soap opera drama. You know, two characters do something they're not supposed to, a PREGNANCY occurs and all kinds of drama revolves around the PREGNANCY. Then the writers are stuck with a baby, an unfortunate side effect of pregnancy, and having to deal with a new character is now where near as fun or exciting.

You know, that's a good point. And what do babies in soap operas usually do once they're born? They hang around for a week, then disappear completely for a few months, at which point they return as 18-year-olds.

...which is what happened to Mordred, really. He was born, and there was a big scene at that moment; but afterward he served no real purpose except to follow the tet and grow into an adult really really quickly so that when the time came, he could launch a pathetic attack and die like a punk. You see Roland getting closer to the Tower, where the Crimson King is waiting for him, and Mordred is hot on his heels, and you expect some awesome showdown to take place there....but no. It was a whole lot of buildup and no follow-through. Like Jonas in some ways - a whole book is spent exposing and developing his character as some total physical and intellectual hardass; and then when the time comes he's just simply shot dead, disposed of as quickly and curtly as any minor throwaway character.

The King of Kings
01-16-2009, 08:54 AM
Isn't Mordred a creature of the Prim? Not directly obviously, but via his relation with Crimson King and with the Crimson Queen being his "grand-mother". They only want chaos, and are totally disgusted at the idea of peace.

Mordred Deschain
01-16-2009, 02:28 PM
Why do you keep talking about me as if I'm not in the room?

Wuducynn
01-16-2009, 03:24 PM
Isn't Mordred a creature of the Prim? Not directly obviously, but via his relation with Crimson King and with the Crimson Queen being his "grand-mother". They only want chaos, and are totally disgusted at the idea of peace.

Yep. Also, one of the finer members of this message board community.

Mordred Deschain
01-16-2009, 07:57 PM
LOL thanks...

jayson
01-16-2009, 09:05 PM
Isn't Mordred a creature of the Prim? Not directly obviously, but via his relation with Crimson King and with the Crimson Queen being his "grand-mother". They only want chaos, and are totally disgusted at the idea of peace.

He is. He is also part human. I think that's the question at hand. Is Mordred's nature wholly evil, or does his fractional humanity mean that he is capable of some form of redemption?

Letti
01-17-2009, 12:14 AM
To me Mordred reeked of soap opera drama. You know, two characters do something they're not supposed to, a PREGNANCY occurs and all kinds of drama revolves around the PREGNANCY. Then the writers are stuck with a baby, an unfortunate side effect of pregnancy, and having to deal with a new character is now where near as fun or exciting.

You know, that's a good point. And what do babies in soap operas usually do once they're born? They hang around for a week, then disappear completely for a few months, at which point they return as 18-year-olds.

...which is what happened to Mordred, really. He was born, and there was a big scene at that moment; but afterward he served no real purpose except to follow the tet and grow into an adult really really quickly so that when the time came, he could launch a pathetic attack and die like a punk. You see Roland getting closer to the Tower, where the Crimson King is waiting for him, and Mordred is hot on his heels, and you expect some awesome showdown to take place there....but no. It was a whole lot of buildup and no follow-through. Like Jonas in some ways - a whole book is spent exposing and developing his character as some total physical and intellectual hardass; and then when the time comes he's just simply shot dead, disposed of as quickly and curtly as any minor throwaway character.

Sometimes I feel some folks have read another book. But that's why I am here. To hear about other views. :)
Mordred like a soap opera character?
Anyway he did serve purpose. I was afraid of him. Really. I felt he was truly powerful and okay at the end we could see he did no harm at all but all the way long I was afraid of him. He made the DT7 much more fascinating for me.



Isn't Mordred a creature of the Prim? Not directly obviously, but via his relation with Crimson King and with the Crimson Queen being his "grand-mother". They only want chaos, and are totally disgusted at the idea of peace.

He is. He is also part human. I think that's the question at hand. Is Mordred's nature wholly evil, or does his fractional humanity mean that he is capable of some form of redemption?

redemption - no, no way (sadly)
feelings - yes
He was damned from his birth.

The King of Kings
01-17-2009, 08:47 AM
He is. He is also part human. I think that's the question at hand. Is Mordred's nature wholly evil, or does his fractional humanity mean that he is capable of some form of redemption?

Crimson King is also part human as well is he not?

jayson
01-17-2009, 09:47 AM
Crimson King is also part human as well is he not?

He is indeed. According to the comic series...
...the CK is descended from the Crimson Queen and Arthur Eld, and thus, half human. The books themselves do not state his precise lineage, but I do believe he is still said to be descended from Arthur Eld and so at least part human.

CrimsonMordred
01-29-2010, 07:57 PM
Talking to him A BIT would probably not help that much. Roland would have to pull some fast psychology.

Mordred Deschain
01-30-2010, 07:27 PM
Talking to him A BIT would probably not help that much. Roland would have to pull some fast psychology.

Who are you...false prophet?!?!?! heh..just kidding.