What are your feelings on the later books?

[holzy1139]

New here, I've been a lurker but now I decided I would start posting.

I am midway through the DT series, I am just starting Wizard and Glass now. For some reason over the years I've been spoiled as to what happens in the series: i know how it ends, i know the fates of most of the main characters. While it would've been better to be surprised, I still have enjoyed reading the series despite knowing what happens. I say this so that you don't shy away from spoilers when answering my question:

A lot of people complain about the later books and how there's a decline in quality of writing. Do you agree with this assessment? I ask because I sort of want to tailor my expectations so that I don't feel immensely dissapointed.

[Ricky]

Welcome, holzy!

I don't feel like the quality of the writing declined as the series progressed, per se, but the story did seem to either drag or slip in places (such as in W&G). I think you'll really enjoy the rest of the series.

[OchrisO]

I don't think the quality declines. Wolves of the Calla is my favorite of the whole series, and Song of Susannah was probably the one that I read the fastest, because I just couldn't put it down for long for some reason. I think the writing holds up.

[Kidd Ikarus]

I liked the later books. Really, really enjoyed Wolves of the Calla. On my first read through, I wasn't very impressed with Song of Susannah. But on my second read through I realized I may have just been rushing through it. SoS is also very good and some cool things occur in that volume.

[Jean]

what Chris said, verbatim

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

I absolutely hated the last 3 books. All the made-up words King used just totally irked me, I don't know why, they just didn't ring true for me. I had to force myself to read them.

Now having said that, I do plan on re-reading the whole series start to finish one of these days (I 've read THE GUNSLINGER at least three times and the 2nd and 3rd books at least twice), and it's entirely possible I'll change my mind. I've read books in the past I've disliked, which on another reading I found myself liking, and just the opposite on other books. I guess this shows that one's tastes and viewpoints change with time, as new experiences are added to your life.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

I really liked wolves, last two not as much. However, I have read the first 4 many, many times. and the last 3 only once, so maybe my opinion might improve.

[blavigne]

I liked the later books. Really, really enjoyed Wolves of the Calla. On my first read through, I wasn't very impressed with Song of Susannah. But on my second read through I realized I may have just been rushing through it. SoS is also very good and some cool things occur in that volume.

I agree. I think that the reason I pushed through SOS so fast is that A lot of cool things happened but not to all of them since they were separated at that time. I just really wanted the Ka Tet to be whole again I think that the seven books are one story and to me it fits. The books change but so do the characters, deeply and fundamentally. I loved this series. Just started my second time through the audio books and am planning a re-read soon as well :)

[Kidd Ikarus]

I felt exactly the same way blavigne. I think another reason is just the simple fact that I hate the character of Mia. But yeah, after finishing it the second time through I could not understand why I dismissed it so quickly at first.

[RainInSpain]

...The books change but so do the characters, deeply and fundamentally. I loved this series...

My thoughts exactly :)
Even though I can say that my favorite book, or the one closest to me, is The Waste Lands, with The Gunslinger being a close second, it's not because I like other books less or because they are somehow worse; it happened for reasons purely beyond the books themselves. I love them all and would never leave out any of them during a re-read. It's really one journey - how can you skip a part?

[Letti]

In nutshell: I loved the last 3 books a lot. When I started reading book 7, for about a hundred pages I didn't like it that much. By the time I finished it, it became my all time favourite.

[blavigne]

I do understand the point people have about the books and how the writing style changed. I'm sure there would have been a lot more continuity had the books been written one after the other. However, I also know that for me a huge part of the richness and depth of the story is the growth and change that happened to the main characters especially Roland. In my opinion, this is reflective of the changes, growth and life experiences that Mr. King had during the almost thirty years it took to write the story.

Like everything, this story has it's flaws, but for me it is not just a story. The DT touched my heart and soul in a way that I can barely even begin to put into thought much less words. I love the story so much that I would not even sacrifice the parts that I hate if that makes sense.

How wonderful it is to be able to express thoughts like these and know that when you people here read this you will "get it"!! That is too cool..........:dance:

[Erin]

I absolutely loved the last book. As for the rest of them, I really enjoyed them overall. I had some minor issues with the story, but the writing was still excellent and I don't fault King at all for that.

[Rice Dancer]

I think his style obviously changed. I enjoyed the whole series though.

[Terahurts]

I've read the first three a dozen or so times, four and five twice and then stupidly read the spoilers for six and seven on wikipeadia and have struggled to make a start on them now I know the end.



I struggled with WaG, the first time I read it I was fever sick, and tbh I had some weird dreams about it during that first time round, ever since it's been harder to read.

I don't think the quality of writing has deteriorated so much as changed, becoming less lyrical and more descriptive as the series ages.

I'm about 1/3 of the way through listening to them all as audio books, having just started The Wastelands which is also my favourite of the series.

Oh, and my first post here by the way, so "Hi Everyone!"

[Merlin1958]

I was a "as published" reader and as such had no issues with W&G as others did. Although, as a narrative it did "drag somewhat. After waiting all those years for him to finish it (and dealing with his accident from a readers perspective) I have to say that in at least some ways it had a "I've just got to finish this" feel to it. I've re-read the series a few times since and its not quite so obvious on re-reads, but still there is a "rushed" or not as dedicated feel to the whole ting. Almost like a person had held a gun to his head. I don't mean that as negative as it sounds, but there is a difference between the first four books and the last three. Just can't put my finger on it.

[Saintmatthew]

I just finished re-reading the whole series. the first time through, I read them as they came out (first one may have been out a while though). I was 13 and in high school when I picked up The Gunslinger. I was 29 when I finished The Dark Tower. The Wastlands I remember reading on a weekend marathon after getting dumped on my birthday. I thought they were all good, although book 7 was a bit "thick" here and there with all the vernacular he made for it. It was also, for some reason to me, not as gripping or moving. It picks up at points but they move through so many alien places it's harder to become emotionally invested or feel they are.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

holzy1139, how far are you into "Wizard & Glass" i'm on page 414 now. i haven't read all of "King's books yet. but i think his style in writing changed when he did "Insomnia" which is one of my favorites of his. i hope to NOT be burnt out on "DT" after i'm done reading "Wizard & Glass" though he he.

i also find it interesting how various people hate the last 3 books while others love them. i think my brother said "Wolves" is his favorite one. since i haven't read all of them, "The Drawing of the three' so far is mine.

[Jean]

best regards to your brother. Wolves is my absolute favorite.

[holzy1139]

holzy1139, how far are you into "Wizard & Glass" i'm on page 414 now. i haven't read all of "King's books yet. but i think his style in writing changed when he did "Insomnia" which is one of my favorites of his. i hope to NOT be burnt out on "DT" after i'm done reading "Wizard & Glass" though he he.

i also find it interesting how various people hate the last 3 books while others love them. i think my brother said "Wolves" is his favorite one. since i haven't read all of them, "The Drawing of the three' so far is mine.

I just finished exams so I'm back to focusing on Wizard and Glass now. I'm a hundred and something pages in, about 30-40 pages into the flashback story.
It seems like I'll like it, though I admit that I was itching being away from Roland with the 30 pages of
Rhea the witch and Susan and that whole creepy ordeal. Something about the old witch practically molesting the girl made me a bit squeamish. Weirdly Roland blowing heads off in Tull and the demon rape in Wastelands didn't get to me but this did. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the rest of the story.

Is it true that the rest of Wizard and Glass has a really western feel to it? I guess I'll probably find out before someone replies anyway, but I like the sound of the western feel of the books being more prominent.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

yes it does have that feel. it's what i call a western/love story with a little fantasy hence "Blaine the mono" with a litlte bit of sci-fi. that's what i call it anyways, the flashback starts out slow to be honest, the 1st meeting with Susan. the 3 of them meaning Roland's original Ka-Tet going to the mayor's dinner. is slow. don't worry this isn't anything spoiler.

it in short takes awhile for the book to pick up. for me the big action scenes haven't even happend yet. he he. & you will see "Roland' make mistakes that we aren't used to him making. but to be fair he was only 14 at the time. though with this love story the boys feel like they are actually older than they actually are. but than Jake Chambers as Susannah said about him acts like he's 18 years old instead of Eleven.

so i think it goes the same for "Roland" & his gang as well. my favorite joke? Cuthbert's lookout.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Darn all you guys. All this talk about the Dark Tower books makes me want to read them all in a row now, which I did not do for the last three books. And I am so far behind in my reading now, I don't want to do it! But I think I will anyway. Give me a couple years (or more?) and I'll tell you what my new opinion is then!

Lets's see, maybe after I finish the 6 volume set of THE COMPLETE JACK VANCE at about 1000 pages each this decade, I can jump right back into THE DARK TOWER series. Should be done around 2020 or so...maybe.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

why does it take you so long to read them? as for me? my reason? i think by the time i get to the 4th book i get "DT" burn out. i got as far as the scene in the book where Jonas helps "Cordeila" with her Groceries & than i lost interest maybe? & i tried numerous times to finish it off from there, but i by than had no fucking idea what the hell was even going on?

Susan & Roland & Already slept together i believe. not really a spoiler it is a love story after all. & of course if i haven't read the 4th one why read the ones after that? ya know? i'm now on page 425 by the way. anyways, i'm a little funny when it comes to music. & books you have to understand.

i have to be in the mood to read & also be in the mood to read a certain author for example "Anne Rice" whom also love. her earlyier stuff anyways. anyways, it's the same way with movies & tv shows as well. i have to be in the mood for them. it's odd i know. but that's just how i am.

i've always been that way for some reason? is anybody else like that? also how are you liking "W&G" so far holzy1139. & congrats on finishing your exams

[johnny39]

I was a "as published" reader and as such had no issues with W&G as others did. Although, as a narrative it did "drag somewhat. After waiting all those years for him to finish it (and dealing with his accident from a readers perspective) I have to say that in at least some ways it had a "I've just got to finish this" feel to it. I've re-read the series a few times since and its not quite so obvious on re-reads, but still there is a "rushed" or not as dedicated feel to the whole ting. Almost like a person had held a gun to his head. I don't mean that as negative as it sounds, but there is a difference between the first four books and the last three. Just can't put my finger on it.

Well put. I was lucky enough to read all 7 in succession. There was definitely a shift in feel after the 4th book.

I think it's similar to Lost. There is a significant change in the storytelling after season 3. Some of the best parts of the series happened in seasons 4 and 5, but it just wasn't "the same" show.

It happens to everything, and it's not necessarily a bad thing.

[greatcthulhu]

Ranking the seven:

1) The Drawing of the Three. Beautiful narrative flow and stunningly imagined.
2) The Wastelands. Flawless continuation of TDot3. The last half falters slightly, but all in all, outstanding.
3) Song of Susannah. Republic serial feel throughout with a dark bizarreness to it.
4) The Gunslinger. The one that started it all. Great sense of impending doom throughout. Beautifulyy written.
5) The Wolves of the Calla. Well written, but it seems aloof from the rest of the series. Suffers from a lack of imagination, but a solid story.
6) The Dark Tower. A lopsided, but satisfying conclusion to the series. Some minor quibbles with the ending, but worth the wait.
7). Wizard and Glass. Narrative flow problems, a decided lack of imagination, and a very unreliable narrator. A very uncomfortable read.

I'm currently on my 4th trip through the DT series and though I'm only half-way thru Wolves, this is my current feeling on the series. The ranking has slightly changed from a posing on another forum, which was: 2,1,6,4,3,7,5. I was extremely disappointed with W&G this time round.

[Garrell]

5, 7, 4, 3, 6, 2, 1 for me, with wolves been way in front:)

[greatcthulhu]

King's writing did change over the course of the series; It took 25+ years to finish it after all. The first three books are strightforward, just like his early works. With Wizard and Glass, the DT books became about remembering things that have been forgotten or blocked, just like his later fiction. Which DT book is your favorite depends upon which style of his you prefer; I prefer his early works, probably because I first read him in 1980 (The Shining--still my favorite of his works.)

That's why books I, II, and III are ranked higher than IV, V, and VII. (VI is different from all the others, but has more in common with the fist 3 DT books.)

One of the things I've always admired about King's works, tho, is that he ends his books when it feels right; he doesn't rush headlong into a conclusion like som any authors do (ie, Koontz). In that respect, none of the DT books have disappointed.

[Merlin1958]

King's writing did change over the course of the series; It took 25+ years to finish it after all. The first three books are strightforward, just like his early works. With Wizard and Glass, the DT books became about remembering things that have been forgotten or blocked, just like his later ficition. Which book is your favorite depends upon which style of his you prefer; I prefer his early works, probably because I first read him in 1980 (The Shining--still my favorite of his works.)

One of the things I've always admired about King's works, tho, is that he ends his books when it feels right; he doesn't rush headlong into a conclusion like som any authors do (ie, Koontz). In that respect, none of the DT books have disappointed.

I would have to disagree. Despite the length of DTVII it sure felt like he packed 10 pds into a 5pd bag. I also took issue with the resolution of some of the storylines, though I did come to grips with the "Ending" per se.

[greatcthulhu]

It's been a couple of years since I've read DT VII, so I'm a little rusty on it, but I remember thinking that this is slowly spinning out of control. I also remember thinking that King did a pretty good job with halting the spin. And I never had a problem with the ending (a re-reading of the series is revealing to me little things that make me think Roland deserved what he got), but I would have liked to see Roland given a choice once he got to the top of the DT. Of course, some of my opinions on individual works are changing as I reread them, so maybe when i get to DT VII again (probably in a week), my thinking on the matter will change.

[Garrell]

Towards the last 200 pages of DTVII I started thinking it would end the way it did, if it didn't I would have been disappointed. "Ka is a wheel" would have been meaningless.

[Jean]

with wolves been way in front:)http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearheart.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearheart.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearheart.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearheart.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearheart.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearheart.gif

[Seymour_Glass]

The low point in the series for me was probably Wizard and Glass. That one took me forever for some reason. But Wolves got me going again.

[Jean]

hear, hear

[Seymour_Glass]

So, yeah, I'd say I'm generally in favor of the later books.

[Darkthoughts]

I loved all of them, The Gunslinger more with time and subsequent rereads. I enjoyed also how King's voice changed over the years and even the passage of time between books, it lent to the feeling that we as the Constant Readers were on the quest with our ka-tet. My only slight disappointment with the latter books was that he lost the urge to link up all the DT connections he'd been leaving us in his other works throughout the years. I really enjoyed following that trail of breadcrumbs, and whilst I know that some loose ends were inevitable and some plotlines must have seemed to make more sense to him if he took them in a different direction, it seemed a waste to literally cast them all away.

[Letti]

I loved all the books to pieces. With the later books it was a bit harder to get into the story. I needed more time to feel I am right next to Roland.. I needed more time to hear him breathing. :) But when I was in it I got as lost as possible.

[telephasic]

I found the world and atmosphere of them all totally addictive and intoxicating. I read them in a fairly strange order, starting with 4, then 3-2-1. Basically the order I happened to find them in. So I was reading the early books already knowing the broad brush strokes of what happened from the 'argument' sections of the later books. It was still totally fascinating to see it all fleshed out in detail.

Because I read 4 first, I was constantly pining for the narrative to go back to the fascinating world portrayed at the start of the book and in the argument. Needless to say I was disappointed in that particular regard - it is indeed slow paced initially, but the finale literally had my heart racing in a manner which few books before or since have done.

I read 5, 6 and 7 in their correct order. I was mildly disappointed by the finale of 7 but the ending was fine by me.

For some reason 5 is my favourite, partly because there was a very generous except available which built up the anticipation for me a great deal. It also reminds me of the magnificent seven. In book 5 for me, there is a real sense of anxiety as their month's notice to the arrival of the Wolves ebbs away. The bizarreness of the 'roont' children adds a morbid fascination too.

[Jean]

For some reason 5 is my favourite
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearheart.gif

[blavigne]

I love Wolves too, closely followed by Wizard :)
5, 4, 2, 3, 7, 1, 6

[tumbleweed]

Spoilers for all the later books... The first three were the best, hands down. They sucked me into the mystery and magic of the series, and made me want to read more. Unfortunately, I think in the fourth one, I was derailed too long into Roland's past, but a lot of the mysticism and bewilderment was renewed for me introducing Father Callahan, and letting Sus have legs via Mia. Randall Flagg, of course was given a bum rap, and should not have been as easily thwarted as he was, but perhaps that was lack of communication on Uncle Steve's part in building up Mordred's powers to make it believable that he would be stronger than R.F.

[noal]

The later books did feel different somehow, whether through the passing of time/evolving writing style.

The thing is, if you look at other media, there is always an evolving of an artists style whether a film director,band/singer or writer.
I definitely enjoyed the first four books more but I don't dislike the latter.

And, on a side note, I can see quite a few people not liking Wizard and Glass. I'm going to sit in the corner and sulk!:angry::cry:

[Jean]

people and bears, noal...

[Brainslinger]

What I particularly like about Wizard and Glass (and I accept this isn't really the thread for this but anyway) is that it feels like a complete Roland story. (The back-story bit which takes up most of the book, I mean) with a beginning, middle and an end. The other books, (with one exception I'll get to bellow) while they do focus on their sub stories, don't feel quite the same being part of a longer ongoing story. (And at the end of course we find out it really isn't the end....) That's not a criticism of the other books, mind. I like the idea of the story continuing on and on in fact,but I can like opposite things in different ways and it was good to have that complete story.

As for this actual thread's topic, I like the last three books a lot. I was disappointed with some of the last book but it had great stuff in there. Wolves of the Calla had a nice relaxed pace. A bit like taking a breather before the final shebang. The main plot set in Calla Bryn Sturgis had that 'complete story' feel similar to that of Wizard... and it set up some very interesting things for the overalls story arc. Song of Susannah was a rip roaring ride that felt very much like Drawing of the Three. And then we had the last book which, while overall weakest for me, combined a mixture of that relaxed tone and the fantastic action.

Overall a nice ending to the series I thought, although I share many peoples views concerning the villains. (I won't go into that here as I think I've probably done that earlier in this thread or another.)

[noal]

people and bears, noal...
Cry your pardon, Jean!:redface:

[Jean]

What I particularly like about Wizard and Glass (and I accept this isn't really the thread for this but anyway) is that it feels like a complete Roland story. (The back-story bit which takes up most of the book, I mean) with a beginning, middle and an end.
This is exactly what I hate about it. The glimpses given in the other books gave a head-spinning perspective of a large universe, of things unspeakable and often unthinkable, of immense possibilities, of a reality too big to be fit into a story told. The complete story is rather meh; some interesting things did happen, but the rest of it got just flattened, deflated; bears were left with a feeling that there was nothing more to it - while before this the feeling was theire is indefinitely more.



people and bears, noal...
Cry your pardon, Jean!:redface:
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_wink-1.gif

[noal]

I wonder, time obviously permitting, if King would like to change anything in the last three books like he did with The Gunslinger Revised?

I'm not saying I'm for or against it; i was just wondering what people(and bears!) thought.
I do have to wonder if King, now he has managed to finish his magnum opus, can't help but feel he would like to edit certain parts that maybe he isn't happy with.

I seem to recall him saying that it was finished and it is what it is but...
...will he have a case of the George Lucas's?

P.S. I'm about to start SOS tomorrow(just got to finish the wolves fight) so I can perhaps re-evaluate that.

[Letti]

I hope he won't revise any of the books. Well, if he does I have the originals so I will be able to deal with it. : )

[noal]

I think personally he should leave them be; they are what they are. Not perfect but then what is?
Just about to start SOS which, if I remember rightly, wasn't one of my favorites but maybe I will change my mind?
I was rather rushing through it the first time!:D

[Empath of the White]

I love them in retrospect. I actually find them easier to pick up and get into. Since I was not well-versed in King's multiverse on my first read-through Mordred disposing of Flagg didn't bother me. Now, I like to think that Flagg relied on mechanical tricks of the Old People to fool us humans into thinking he was greater than he really was. That line of thought adds a bit of mystique to the Old People for me as well..

Book VII tore me up, emotionally. Bye Jake or I ache, it came to the same..

[divemaster]

A lot of people complain about the later books and how there's a decline in quality of writing. Do you agree with this assessment? I ask because I sort of want to tailor my expectations so that I don't feel immensely dissapointed.

I definitely do not think there is a decline in the quality of the writing. King can write. Having said that, I have some quibbles about some of the happenings in DT VII (although I thought the ending itself was perfect). I didn't care much for SoS, not because it wasn't written well but becasue I never cared much about the character of Susannah in the first place. That whole Detta, Odetta, Susannah (and now Mia!) thing didn't do much for me. Wolves was fun. Well-contained...and who knew Roland could dance the Commola?

[noal]

I finished Wolves again last night and I must admit that it was a lot better this time around.

Can't quite put my finger on what I feel has changed but the Callahan back story didn't annoy me like it did the first time through.

Now on to SOS!

[LadyHitchhiker]

Wizard of Glass was my least favorite. The first time I read it, it was just such a huge downer. I didn't want to know about Roland's past. I just wanted to know about his future. I just wanted to keep moving forward in the journey! And more Randall Flagg! I actually enjoyed SOS... and Wolves... I was glad to get back to the story...

[Patrick]

A lot of people complain about the later books and how there's a decline in quality of writing. Do you agree with this assessment? I ask because I sort of want to tailor my expectations so that I don't feel immensely dissapointed.

I definitely do not think there is a decline in the quality of the writing. King can write. Having said that, I have some quibbles about some of the happenings in DT VII (although I thought the ending itself was perfect). I didn't care much for SoS, not because it wasn't written well but becasue I never cared much about the character of Susannah in the first place. That whole Detta, Odetta, Susannah (and now Mia!) thing didn't do much for me. Wolves was fun. Well-contained...and who knew Roland could dance the Commola?
I completely agree with divemaster's comments.


I will add this, though: SK should have left out his pissy tirade that followed DTVII. It bummed my high.

[Shawn]

Roland knew he had danced it at least a thousand times before ... :)

[pathoftheturtle]

... SK should have left out his pissy tirade that followed DTVII. It bummed my high.A few times in that volume it was foreshadowed, though, don't you think? Like Rando Thoughtful trying to talk Roland out of proceeding to the Tower. Remember he talked about worlds like Stephen King's being still green & pleasant? And Nancy Deepneau before that, sitting in her well-appointed office in Manhattan delivering her own pissy tirade to him about the value of existence. But even though Earth was part of the DT cosmography right from the first book, it seems to me that it was viewed throughout the first three from the pessimistic standpoint of connection to the crumbling, miserable universe that Roland comes from, and in the last three books, that's reversed, so that that half-empty glass is supposed to be looked at only from the standpoint of having a connection to Earth's potentially bright future.

[grobblewobble]

Haven't finished part VII yet, but half-way now.

The main problem I have with the last three books is all the references to King. A writer making himself the most important person in the whole universe.. how he goes on and on about that road accident.. urgh.

But other than that, I loved the last three books, at least so far.

[otherjr1]

Well, maybe I'm a little late to the party here, but I hated the last three books. Found them meandering, overly complicated, repetitive, and just poorly written.

Of course, these opinions are subjective, but I have some facts on my side here.

Let's look at the publication dates of the first four novels.

Gunslinger: 1982
Three: 1987
Wastelands: 1991
Wizard: 1997

Now, let's look at the publication dates of the final three:

Wolves: 2003
Song: 2004
Tower: 2004

That's 15 years between the first four and around 18 months between the last three. Another interesting date would be 1999, when King was hit by a car, and another would be 2002, when he said he was going to quit writing. This was partly down to his injuries, which at first made sitting to write excrutiating and remained uncomfortable for some time.

I think it's fair to say that the last three books were taken at a gallop. King had spoken several times before about being unsure how to continue with the DT series. I think, looking at an early retirement, he just wanted to get them done as soon as possible. This explains, for me, why the last three books feel so damn rushed and untidy.