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View Full Version : TGDT - Round 3 - Peter Jackson vs Guillermo Del Toro



fernandito
09-15-2010, 10:30 AM
Peter Jackson's IMDB page (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001392/)
Notable films : Dead Alive, Heavenly Creatures , Lord of the Rings (trilogy), King Kong
http://stevenhartsite.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/peter-jackson1.jpg

Guillermo Del Toro's IMDB Page (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0868219/)
Notable films : Pan's Labyrinth, Hellboy I/II, Mimic, The Devil's Backbone, Blade II
http://www.ibtimes.com/data/articleimgs/42030-people-guillermo-del-toro.jpg

fernandito
09-15-2010, 10:35 AM
Reminder !

In case of a tie in the polls, the posts below will serve as the final tie breaker !

fernandito
09-15-2010, 10:35 AM
Voting for mi paisano, Del Toro :)

alkanto
09-15-2010, 10:35 AM
I am calling it now...this will be the hardest decision in this entire poll...

I'll get back to you on this one.

Melike
09-15-2010, 10:38 AM
Del Toro.

mae
09-15-2010, 11:16 AM
Both very very over-rated directors with very little to go on (Del Toro = Pan's Labyrinth, PJ = LOTR).

Jean
09-15-2010, 12:18 PM
Del Toro without any doubt

I don't think he is overrated.

Mattrick
09-15-2010, 12:53 PM
I don't think either of these guys deserve to be in this tournament, at least not yet. They are both good but only have a couple movies to really judge on. In 15 years these guys I'm sure will have great movies. I'm just going to not vote on this one.

Heather19
09-15-2010, 02:06 PM
Del Toro

DoctorDodge
09-15-2010, 02:11 PM
Ooh. As much as I loved the Lord of the Rings movies and think they just might be some of the best adaptations ever made, King Kong was too boring for me to enjoy.

Had to go with Del Toro on this one! Pan's Labyrinth is a total classic and even the Hellboy movies have a sense of dark beauty to them that most blockbusters don't have!

mae
09-15-2010, 02:11 PM
Why no Cronos for Del Toro's credits? It's one of his two good films. Surely better than Mimic/Hellboy/Blade.

Mattrick
09-15-2010, 03:19 PM
Same reason I guess Lovely Bones wasn't a Peter Jackson credit, I guess. I really want to see this one, if only for Tucci's amazing performance. Love Tucci. Michael Imperioli as well, that guy is also great.

fernandito
09-15-2010, 03:27 PM
I thought The Lovely Bones the novel was pretty awful, and apparently the movie is even worse ... I can't imagine how bad that is.

Heather19
09-15-2010, 03:30 PM
I thought The Lovely Bones the novel was pretty awful, and apparently the movie is even worse ... I can't imagine how bad that is.

Wow, I think you might be the first person I've heard say that. Everyone I know that's read it has loved it. I started it earlier this year, but honestly had a hard time getting into it. The story seemed pretty good, but I didn't care for the writing. I've been meaning to go back and try to finish it though.

DoctorDodge
09-15-2010, 03:36 PM
I know fuck all about the Lovely Bones. Let me just flick through it:

FLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK!

Hmm. Sad ending!

Jean
09-16-2010, 01:22 AM
I don't think either of these guys deserve to be in this tournament, at least not yet. They are both good but only have a couple movies to really judge on. In 15 years these guys I'm sure will have great movies. I'm just going to not vote on this one.
I don't understand this. I am sure two masterpieces is enough to be called a great director - fuck, even one would be enough. I mean, what if - God forbid - Del Toro died right now? Would we deny him the right to greatness only because he only made two great films? I really think both Labyrinth and Backbone are among the greatest films ever made, so it definitely makes him one of the greatest directors of all times; even if he doesn't direct anything at all from now on.

turtlex
09-16-2010, 02:47 AM
Hang on, Mattrick - weren't you the guy talking about "oscar winning" this and that in another thread? Like it or not - LOTR is a BIG Oscar winner.

Jean
09-16-2010, 02:48 AM
so is The Titanic...

Seymour_Glass
09-16-2010, 03:02 AM
><

turtlex
09-16-2010, 03:04 AM
:lol: I think that was actually my point!! Jean :huglove: :couple:

<-- everyone knows this person hated Titanic.

Mattrick
09-16-2010, 03:48 AM
I don't think either of these guys deserve to be in this tournament, at least not yet. They are both good but only have a couple movies to really judge on. In 15 years these guys I'm sure will have great movies. I'm just going to not vote on this one.
I don't understand this. I am sure two masterpieces is enough to be called a great director - fuck, even one would be enough. I mean, what if - God forbid - Del Toro died right now? Would we deny him the right to greatness only because he only made two great films? I really think both Labyrinth and Backbone are among the greatest films ever made, so it definitely makes him one of the greatest directors of all times; even if he doesn't direct anything at all from now on.

This is the greatest director of all time. We're getting into the final rounds. And I'm sorry, LOTR doesn't make someone a contender for that. Nor does Del Toro's two movies where there are directors out there that have made a half dozen or more great movies. I never said they were bad but really, they are both new to the business (this level) as are Nolan and Alexander Payne Paul Thomas Anderson and David Fincher. A good director can make a few great movies. A great director makes them for 20 years.

Isn't that the point of this contest? Not who can make the best two movies. And at the same time what you think are amongst the great movies ever is completely subjective. I'm sure there are people who hated those movies. Subjection gets less relevent with each great movie a director makes. This why someone like Hitchcock is so revered.

And still, with Del Toro and Peter Jackson, you've got those average to good movies that weigh down the good ones in their filmographies. I'm not saying every movie must be a gem but once they've been around longer and are more established, I can see. It took Jackson 20+ years to get ANY recognition and he had to make LOTR to do it. Del Toro has a bright future and has lots of talent, but he still has mediocore films like Mimic and Hellboy and Blade II on his resume. Let their resumes build up a bit.

If Del Toro died today that would be a much different story. But still, are you going to call Heath Ledger one of the great actors of all time because he was so good as The Joker? I doubt it. Great actors, directors, writers...some of them just can't keep it going and embarass themselves after awhile. Just look at Nicholas Cage. Guy did two of his best performances in Adaptation and Matchstick Men and has been a laughing stock ever since. Calling Nicholas Cage a great/good actor now is basically a joke.

Greatness is measured in time I'm afraid. Harper Lee wrote To Kill A Mockingbird and nothing else. One of the greatest books of all time? Quite possibly. Great writer of all time? I'm sure she would be skipped over to the likes of Shakepeare, Steinbeck, Dickens, Dostoevsky etc. Why? Because they wrote many great books/stories. You think Shakespeare would be remembered if he stopped at Henry IV?

And use the argument 'what if he died rightnow' is irrelevent. That is talking in theoreticals. There is nothing theoretical about this competition. It's track record + personal opinions. Not ideas of if certain directors died how they would be better because they never got the chance to improve/get worse. If two great movie is all it takes then The Toronto Blue Jays are the greatest baseball franchise in history because of their glory days almost 20 years ago of 1992-1993. Do those two years make up for the other 30+ years of not being great? As far as I'm concerned, Del Toro has made two great movies and what, 6 or 7 not great movies. Jackson is the same (I thought the only real good LOTR movie was Fellowship, went downhill from there).

While unlike Pablo I do not think they are overrated in the slightest...just under filmed I guess would be the phrase. Against the heavyweights, neither of these guys stands a chance. Quality > Quanity except if that Quanity IS Quality.

turtlex
09-16-2010, 03:51 AM
Okay, you leave Scout, Gem and Boo out of this, mister!!! :P

Jean
09-16-2010, 04:00 AM
Mattrick: Cervantes is a great writer, and ranks among the greatest, although who remembers anything by him besides Don Quixote? It's the same for me with directors, writers, or actors. One great movie, one great book, one great part is enough. Greatness is measured by what the top is like, not the average of the whole body of work. That's how it is for me. Thus, I consider Harper Lee a great writer; I really do.

turtlex
09-16-2010, 04:10 AM
One Man Scorned And Covered With Scars Still Strove With His Last Ounce Of Courage To Reach The Unreachable Stars; And The World Was Better For This.

Jean. You have my sword.

Jean
09-16-2010, 04:16 AM
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/4771315/2/istockphoto_4771315-sword-cross-swords.jpg

Mattrick
09-16-2010, 04:18 AM
Mattrick: Cervantes is a great writer, and ranks among the greatest, although who remembers anything by him besides Don Quixote? It's the same for me with directors, writers, or actors. One great movie, one great book, one great part is enough. Greatness is measured by what the top is like, not the average of the whole body of work. That's how it is for me. Thus, I consider Harper Lee a great writer; I really do.

Yes, she is a great writer. But would you say she's the greatest? Great and greatest are two entirely different things.

Babe Ruth is considered the great ball player ever because of how many years he played amazing. I know you probably don't know much about baseball but Ken Griffey Jr was THE player during the 90s. Then after injuries and average numbers, people question whether he is the greatest, because he was amazing then slowed to a crawl. You could say the same thing about many great directors today. They've put up amazing numbers, had career seasons (movies) but they could just as easily make Reindeer Games as their next movie. Or they could make the next Citizen Kane or Mr. Smith goes to Washington.

I agree one work is all you need to be remembered as great. But to be the greatest you have to do it for sometime.

Jean
09-16-2010, 04:19 AM
I wouldn't deny her - or Cervantes - entering such a contest on any level.

Lisey Landon
09-16-2010, 04:33 AM
I agree with Pam and Jean here, Mattrick. Greatness is not a matter of quantity, it's about quality through and through.

mae
09-16-2010, 04:46 AM
I do agree with Mattrick that for a director with a short filmography to be in a poll with an established maestro - quantity must rule over quality. Such as in the case of Spielberg vs. Nolan. Both great directors. But Spielberg wins hands down because he's him. In this case here, it's not so clear-cut. Both deserve to be here, Dol Toro perhaps moreso than Jackson, but any of them do pale in comparison to Hitchcock, Kubrick, Spielberg, etc.

Mattrick
09-16-2010, 04:51 AM
Sorry for the baseball references (don't know where they are even coming from) but anyone can swing a bat and hit a homerun once, even hit it out of the stadium. But in my opinion, they have to be able to do it again and again to be considered one of the greatest. Del Toro more specifically than Jackson, has to make some movies other than the two you mentioned that aren't hellboy and blade II (which was just awful) for me, personally, to consider it.

And you also assumed at the beginning I inferred neither of these guys were great. I meant that they are not in the running to be the greatest director of all time in my eyes and I'm sure a lot of people would share that view point and a lot would share yours. In the end it's all subjective. But I tend to look at the greatest as the person who has accomplished the most. When determining the greatest you have to look at everything they have done. The good and the bad. Why else do we have so many topics where it comes down to the amount of movies these directors have made that the people love?

It's kind of like how people couldn't believe Darabont was leading Scorcese, all because of the one great movie he made. Is Darabont one of the greatest directors of all time? I certainly don't think so. People couldn't believe it because scorcese has the track record, Darabont doesn't. In this contest track record will beat a gem any day. At least, that is what has been shown. Though, notoriety has played a part as well. I personally think any artists, athelete...anything in which you can measure greatness...are only as great as long as they allow themselves to be. Cevevantes wrote several books after Don Quixote, but if people only remember Don Quixote...how great was he? If everything else he did is all but forgotten about. You go past your prime, that is all people will remember. Heck, how long did Stephen King have to deal with 'yeah, but it wasn't as good as the stand'. You set that bar that high that early, bad things can happen.

You go out on top, you go out as a great. You keep at it until people don't care anymore...how great are you? Like these old bands from the 60's and 70's and 80's who were great and now are washed up and still try to stay with it. This is why I consider Paul McCartney to be one of the greatest musician of all time...guy has stayed relevent and making good music for 40 years.

Greatness is reletive and utterly comparable and in the end, the one who was greatest longer will win.

Now I'm ranting because I am tired lol All this I think was just because something I said was taken slightly out of context or meaning or whatever. Del Toro is a great director and even a great producer. But as for being considered one of the greatest, time will tell.

Lisey Landon
09-16-2010, 04:51 AM
Pablo - I don't see it that way, although I understand your reasoning.

To me it's a matter of the director's perception of a film and then ultimately how they translate their idea to film. If you like the feel of how they've achieved it I don't think they need do it again and again for you to be able to say, "This person has talent."

mae
09-16-2010, 04:57 AM
Nobody's denying they're talented. But in a poll for greatest director of all time there are obvious greater candidates.

Mattrick
09-16-2010, 05:04 AM
We're not arguing over whether or not the director is talented. We're arguing over how many ways they can show their talent and how it factors into the decision. No one would argue that Da Vinci was talented but he had so many facets for his talent. With every movie/book/song/sympony etc you write, it removes talent from you. Some people only have enough for a couple, some have enough for twenty or even more.

It's much easier for us to judge someone who is dead/retired or almost retired on thier greatness because we've seen what they can do and how long they can keep it up. Del Toro has lots of talent but what he has more of than talent is potential. He's got the potential to keep improving. He's the potential to remain as good as he is or the potential to start making utter crap. I don't know what he is capable of yet for the rest of his career, none of us do. I've got two words and a letter for you - M. Night Shyamalan. His name used to mean 'omg good to great movie' now it means 'why am I watching this'. If he stopped making movies after The Sixth Sense, he could be considered great because it was a great movie. Now, the word great and shyamalan are legally not allowed to be in the same sentence I think.


Charlie Kaufman hasn't had a new project in line since Synecdoche, New York and my friend said it best; "He poured everything he had into that movie. EVERYTHING. If he never writes again it's probably for the best because he will most likely never have enough left to beat it."

Jean
09-16-2010, 05:07 AM
<...>quantity must rule over quality. Such as in the case of Spielberg vs. Nolan. <...>
This. Is. The Truth.

DoctorDodge
09-16-2010, 06:38 AM
Mattrick: Cervantes is a great writer, and ranks among the greatest, although who remembers anything by him besides Don Quixote? It's the same for me with directors, writers, or actors. One great movie, one great book, one great part is enough. Greatness is measured by what the top is like, not the average of the whole body of work. That's how it is for me. Thus, I consider Harper Lee a great writer; I really do.

And this is why I'm obsessed with Edgar Wright, guys! :lol:

turtlex
09-16-2010, 07:13 AM
:pins self to dart board:

I went with Jackson.

fernandito
09-16-2010, 07:15 AM
Nobody's denying they're talented. But in a poll for greatest director of all time there are obvious greater candidates.

See, that's just the thing , this isn't a 'greatest of all time' anything. I purposely named this tournament The Greatest Director Tournament and left out the 'all time bit' so that we could just focus on the directors that were nominated, the greatest director from this group of individuals.

CyberGhostface
09-16-2010, 04:17 PM
Guillermo del Toro's probably my favorite director at the moment.

Mattrick
09-16-2010, 11:04 PM
Nobody's denying they're talented. But in a poll for greatest director of all time there are obvious greater candidates.

See, that's just the thing , this isn't a 'greatest of all time' anything. I purposely named this tournament The Greatest Director Tournament and left out the 'all time bit' so that we could just focus on the directors that were nominated, the greatest director from this group of individuals.

All time is just a nice way to end it. Greatest is still a definitive term. All time is not required.

Jean
09-16-2010, 11:41 PM
how about "greatest in the eyes of us voting here"?

Mattrick
09-17-2010, 02:44 AM
Most well recieved by those in attendance :lol:

fernandito
09-17-2010, 06:14 AM
If that helps you sleep better at night, sure, by all means ! :lol:

Brice
09-20-2010, 03:59 AM
a vote FOR Del Toro and one AGAINST Jackson.

Jean
09-20-2010, 04:11 AM
that's what bears like to hear

Brice
09-20-2010, 06:00 AM
:thumbsup:

fernandito
09-22-2010, 11:41 AM
Guillermo Del Toro advances !

DoctorDodge
09-22-2010, 01:53 PM
http://i40.tinypic.com/206oraq.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m274/bekkiglittz/GIFs/Random/ce9a922f.gif

I think we're all agreed, the right director won!

Jean
09-22-2010, 08:23 PM
definitely

pathoftheturtle
09-23-2010, 12:46 PM
Well, two thirds of us are agreed, at least, obviously. Good news, anyway. :D

fernandito
09-24-2010, 10:16 AM
Del Toro advances !

Jean
09-24-2010, 10:44 AM
Guillermo Del Toro advances !


Del Toro advances !

yes, good news is worth hearing more than once

fernandito
09-24-2010, 10:54 AM
:blush:

Ricky
09-24-2010, 05:52 PM
Nolan.

:lol:

Mattrick
09-27-2010, 10:53 PM
lol

Guillermo Del Toro to start sticking his name on animated movies too

by Sean O'Neal (http://thedarktower.org/users/sean-oneal,3962/) September 27, 2010


If it’s Monday, then Guillermo Del Toro has announced another film he plans to work on, and this time it’s Trollhunters, an animated project he plans to write and direct for DreamWorks. (http://heatvision.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/09/guillermo-del-toro-gets-animated-sets-up-trollhunters-at-dwa-exclusive.html) Trollhunters is based on a young-adult book of the same name that Del Toro submitted for publication about two weeks ago, popping out the horror-fantasy tale just as natural as breathin’ for most people. Where Trollhunters slots into Del Toro’s insanely busy schedule is still to be determined, but in the meantime he’s already making himself nice and inescapable at DreamWorks, serving as a consultant and executive producer on everything from Kung Fu Panda 2 to the Shrek spin-off Puss In Boots to Megamind—which is due for release in just over a month, but not before Del Toro exercises his privilege of primae noctis, apparently.

As for why Del Toro is now expanding his tentacled grasp toward animation, he sees it as a necessary phase of his ever-growing omniscience, saying that in the next 10 years, “Transmedia will not just be a buzz word,” but rather a common term for the all-encompassing world of movies, TV, books, videos, and online entertainment that will make up the pop-culture landscape, all of which will have something to do with Guillermo Del Toro.