TDGT - Round 3 - Christopher Nolan vs Steven Spielberg

[fernandito]

Christopher Nolan's IMDB Page (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0634240/)
Notable films : Memento,Inception, The Dark Knight, Batman Begins, The Prestige
http://images.contactmusic.com/images/reviews/cnolan.jpg

Steven Spielberg's IMDB Page (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000229/)
Notable films : Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, Jurassic Park, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jaws
http://blogs.thecutekid.com/hot-star-now-cutekid-then/files/2009/11/steven_spielberg-getty-images.gif

[Jean]

Nolan!!!

oh thank God, that one was easy...

[fernandito]

REMINDER

In case of a tie the polls, the posts below will serve as the final tie breaker !

[fernandito]

Christopher Nolan. My favorite director :)

[Jean]

so far he is not even close to my twenty favorite directors (it's not that I don't like him, I like him a lot; it's that I love a shit ton of directors)... but way better than Spielberg

[Melike]

Nolan!!!

oh thank God, that one was easy...

Hahaha. My thoughts exactly, particularly after the Boyle vs. Scorsese poll.

Christopher Nolan.

[Ricky]

Nolan x7

[Jean]

so far, so good...

[fernandito]

so far he is not even close to my twenty favorite directors (it's not that I don't like him, I like him a lot; it's that I love a shit ton of directors)...

I can understand that, Jean. I know that Nolan hasn't reached the iconic status of a Hitchcock, a Kubrick, or a Scorsese ... YET ! But I find his films eternally fascinating. Watching his films reminds me why I love the medium so much, I can rewatch them countless times and never grow weary of them. I love that he only seems to get better with each film he makes, and I can't wait to see what he is in store for us in the near future. I strongly believe he has yet to reach his full potential, both as a visual artist and as a story teller.



Christopher Nolan.

:wub:


Nolan x7

:thumbsup:

[Jean]

so far he is not even close to my twenty favorite directors (it's not that I don't like him, I like him a lot; it's that I love a shit ton of directors)...

I can understand that, Jean. I know that Nolan hasn't reached the iconic status of a Hitchcock, a Kubrick, or a Scorsese ... YET ! But I find his films eternally fascinating. Watching his films reminds me why I love the medium so much, I can rewatch them countless times and never grow weary of them. I love that he only seems to get better with each film he makes, and I can't wait to see what he is in store for us in the near future. I strongly believe he has yet to reach his full potential, both as a visual artist and as a story teller.
Very, very true. Anyway, even now he is closer to my top 20 than both Scorsese and Kubrick that you've mentioned...

[DoctorDodge]

Nolan.

[mae]

When Nolan's filmography reaches the vastness and variety of Spielberg and his masterly handling of the filmmaking craft, I'll vote for him.

One for Steve.

[Melike]

so far he is not even close to my twenty favorite directors (it's not that I don't like him, I like him a lot; it's that I love a shit ton of directors)...

I can understand that, Jean. I know that Nolan hasn't reached the iconic status of a Hitchcock, a Kubrick, or a Scorsese ... YET ! But I find his films eternally fascinating. Watching his films reminds me why I love the medium so much, I can rewatch them countless times and never grow weary of them. I love that he only seems to get better with each film he makes, and I can't wait to see what he is in store for us in the near future. I strongly believe he has yet to reach his full potential, both as a visual artist and as a story teller.
Very, very true. Anyway, even now he is closer to my top 20 than both Scorsese and Kubrick that you've mentioned...

It is hard for me to be as sharp as Shizzie about Nolan being my favorite director. Because there are some others I can not forget. But, I must confess, Inception stole my heart. Now Nolan shares top of my favorite directors' list with Chan-wook Park, Darren Aronofsky, Kim Ki-duk.

[turtlex]

Steven.
I mean, come on.

[pathoftheturtle]

No thanks.

Nolan

[Heather19]

Oh this is tough. I'm going to have to think about it for a bit.

[fernandito]

Loving the result so far ! :D

[mae]

If you think about it and compare, Nolan really has made one great film: Memento. He's made a couple of good ones: The Presitige and The Dark Knight, but also two pretty average ones: Insomnia and Batman Begins (which was physically harsh to watch). I'm yet to see Inception, which I understand is very good.

Spielberg, however, has a great number of films that have entered many top-of-all-time type lists, including Close Encounnters of the Third Kind, Jaws, ET, Jurassic Park, Saving Private Ryan, Schindler's List, and The Color Purple. Those are just the more lauded ones. There's, of course, Indiana Jones. And there's also other very very good films like War of the Worlds, The Terminal, AI, Duel, Amistad, Empire of the Sun, Catch Me If You Can... nary a miss, in my opinion. My personal of his though is Munich, such a powerful, haunting experience.

[Ricky]

There's no doubt that Spielberg is talented, but Nolan is a breath of fresh air in the film community, imo. Sometimes it's quality, not quantity.

[mae]

Well since we're going for the best director of all time, shouldn't we look at the entirety of their careers? Sure Nolan is great, and it's not his fault Spielberg was making movies already when he was a kid. That doesn't give him any advantage though.

[turtlex]

There's no doubt that Spielberg is talented, but Nolan is a breath of fresh air in the film community, imo. Sometimes it's quality, not quantity.

Can you explain, please Ricky ... breath of fresh air? What has he done that's so counter to everything else we've seen before?

I mean, okay, I think he's got talent, but he can't touch Spielberg .. and if he can ... we haven't seen it yet. IMHO.

[Ricky]

That depends on what your definition of "best" is.

[Ricky]

There's no doubt that Spielberg is talented, but Nolan is a breath of fresh air in the film community, imo. Sometimes it's quality, not quantity.

Can you explain, please Ricky ... breath of fresh air? What has he done that's so counter to everything else we've seen before?

I mean, okay, I think he's got talent, but he can't touch Spielberg .. and if he can ... we haven't seen it yet. IMHO.

Sure. By that, I mean (in one example) that he's brought the psychological aspect back to films in a society where it's a statistical fact that the average movie-goer doesn't want to sit through a movie and actually think and have their minds prodded. To do that and to do that successfully deserves a large amount of respect. And from me, he's got it.

Pair that with his directing skills and artistic perspective, and you've got one director who's truly showing us something, not just making films to make them.

[pathoftheturtle]

There's no doubt that Spielberg is talented, but Nolan is a breath of fresh air in the film community, imo. Sometimes it's quality, not quantity.

Can you explain, please Ricky ... breath of fresh air? What has he done that's so counter to everything else we've seen before?

I mean, okay, I think he's got talent, but he can't touch Spielberg .. and if he can ... we haven't seen it yet. IMHO.

Sure. By that, I mean (in one example) that he's brought the psychological aspect back to films in a society where it's a statistical fact that the average movie-goer doesn't want to sit through a movie and actually think and have their minds prodded. To do that and to do that successfully deserves a large amount of respect. And from me, he's got it.

Pair that with his directing skills and artistic perspective, and you've got one director who's truly showing us something, not just making films to make them.:clap:

[turtlex]

There's no doubt that Spielberg is talented, but Nolan is a breath of fresh air in the film community, imo. Sometimes it's quality, not quantity.

Can you explain, please Ricky ... breath of fresh air? What has he done that's so counter to everything else we've seen before?

I mean, okay, I think he's got talent, but he can't touch Spielberg .. and if he can ... we haven't seen it yet. IMHO.

Sure. By that, I mean (in one example) that he's brought the psychological aspect back to films in a society where it's a statistical fact that the average movie-goer doesn't want to sit through a movie and actually think and have their minds prodded. To do that and to do that successfully deserves a large amount of respect. And from me, he's got it.

Pair that with his directing skills and artistic perspective, and you've got one director who's truly showing us something, not just making films to make them.

I think you said it here ... he brought that aspect "back to films" ... so it's not exactly new.

And yeah, SS has done some pulp, but he basically makes films that make you think, even when they're pulp. Feev himself used a great example of that when he was speaking with Jean about Jurassic Park being more than just a dinosaur movie ( :wub: ) .... I just think that Nolan's catelog isn't near as impressive as Spielberg.

[Ricky]

There's no doubt that Spielberg is talented, but Nolan is a breath of fresh air in the film community, imo. Sometimes it's quality, not quantity.

Can you explain, please Ricky ... breath of fresh air? What has he done that's so counter to everything else we've seen before?

I mean, okay, I think he's got talent, but he can't touch Spielberg .. and if he can ... we haven't seen it yet. IMHO.

Sure. By that, I mean (in one example) that he's brought the psychological aspect back to films in a society where it's a statistical fact that the average movie-goer doesn't want to sit through a movie and actually think and have their minds prodded. To do that and to do that successfully deserves a large amount of respect. And from me, he's got it.

Pair that with his directing skills and artistic perspective, and you've got one director who's truly showing us something, not just making films to make them.

I think you said it here ... he brought that aspect "back to films" ... so it's not exactly new.

And yeah, SS has done some pulp, but he basically makes films that make you think, even when they're pulp. Feev himself used a great example of that when he was speaking with Jean about Jurassic Park being more than just a dinosaur movie ( :wub: ) .... I just think that Nolan's catelog isn't near as impressive as Spielberg.

Okay, bear with me here. If one were to live in an environment with clean air, and then go live in the sewers for 10 years, and afterwards, come back to that first clean enironment, it is, quite literally, a breath of fresh air. My point is that if something is absent for a long period of time, once it's brought back, it's still "a breath of fresh air" even though you've experienced it before.

And in regard to Nolan vs. Spielberg film numbers. Of course Spielberg has more under his belt, as he's been in the industry longer. However, I think that if you compare both their beginnings, it would show that Nolan is growing at a much more rapid rate. Just my three cents.

[turtlex]

:couple: Ricky :couple:

Dude, I just think you need to see more movies! Then you won't miss things, cause they're really there all along. :lol:

No, seriously, I see your point, I just disagree. I don't see all of what he's "brought back" I guess.

Yes, he's got talent. I am waiting for him to make an impact on me like Spielberg has. An impact on film in general, like SS has. That just hasn't happened yet. And yeah, for sure, SS has been making movies a lot longer, but I just can't judge something that Nolan hasn't produced yet.

[fernandito]

Great, great posts Ricky. And I echo that bit about Nolan growing at a much more rapid rate than Spielberg has/did. If you take into account his relatively short time working as a director, his talent becomes much more apparent. He's done more for the medium in his short years then some directors have done in their entire lives, and the notion that he still has miles left to go in his film making career is a prospect that fills me with glee.

[Ricky]

:shoot: Pam :shoot:

:lol:

I just prefer Nolan's films and style because they fit my interests and thoughts rather than SS's films. In my experience, SS's are more *prepares for backlash* for mainstream audiences.

*hides*

[turtlex]

What if we compared early films to early films. Let's look at that angle.

What are Nolan's major release movies? In order, via IMDB ( skipping shorts / student films)

Following
Memento
Insomnia
Batman Begins
The Prestige
Dark Knight
Inception
What are SS equal ones? In order, via IMDB ( skipping shorts, TV and student films )

The Sugarland Express
Jaws
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
1941
Raiders of the Lost Ark
ET
Twilight Zone


Ricky, man, come on - I love this stuff. I love talking movies with you all! Seriously. Regardless of whether we all agree, and I'm glad we don't always, it's refreshing to be able to talk movies with people who have seen a vast number of films and hold really strong opinions about them. :grouphug:

[Ricky]

If you're skipping shorts, I'd take out Doodlebug, as it's only 3 minutes.

[fernandito]

What if we compared early films to early films. Let's look at that angle.

What are Nolan's major release movies? In order, via IMDB ( skipping shorts / student films)

Doodlebug
Following
Memento
Insomnia
Batman Begins
The Prestige
Dark Knight
Inception
What are SS equal ones? In order, via IMDB ( skipping shorts, TV and student films )

The Sugarland Express
Jaws
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
1941
Raiders of the Lost Ark
ET
Twilight Zone
Temple of Doom




Sooooooo .................. Nolan wins ? :cyclops:

[turtlex]

If you're skipping shorts, I'd take out Doodlebug, as it's only 3 minutes.

Thank you, sir. I'll edit.

[turtlex]

What if we compared early films to early films. Let's look at that angle.

What are Nolan's major release movies? In order, via IMDB ( skipping shorts / student films)

Doodlebug
Following
Memento
Insomnia
Batman Begins
The Prestige
Dark Knight
Inception
What are SS equal ones? In order, via IMDB ( skipping shorts, TV and student films )

The Sugarland Express
Jaws
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
1941
Raiders of the Lost Ark
ET
Twilight Zone
Temple of Doom




Sooooooo .................. Nolan wins ? :cyclops:

:rofl: Yes, that was exactly my point, thank you, Feev! :grouphug:

Sincerely, I'll put ET, Jaws, Raiders and Close Encounters up against anything Nolan has done.

[Ricky]

Ricky, man, come on - I love this stuff. I love talking movies with you all! Seriously. Regardless of whether we all agree, and I'm glad we don't always, it's refreshing to be able to talk movies with people who have seen a vast number of films and hold really strong opinions about them. :grouphug:

I agree wholeheartedly. I love talking about movies with you all. There's not too many people outside of the site that I'd be able to find that would be as interesting in discussing and dissecting. :couple:



Sooooooo .................. Nolan wins ? :cyclops:

I wasn't aware there was any doubt. :unsure: :lol:

[DoctorDodge]

On the Spielberg vs Nolan argument:

What cannot be ignored is that Spielberg did change the face of American cinema with quite a few films in that list: Jaws, ET, Raiders, all fucking blockbuster classics for very different reasons. I think the problem is that, unlike Nolan, he hasn't released any film that's had nearly that same level of impact for at least ten years now, or any kind of film that's nearly as great as his early work.

I say nearly because as truly great Inception was, has it really changed the face of cinema? Too early to tell. I'm hoping for yes. I'm hoping that Nolan has shown that audiences want smart, intelligent films as well as awesome blockbusters, that we do want those two kinds of films combined, but...well, I've got my doubts, but we'll see. But I'm a lot more cynical of the impact of great films now after knowing that we live in a world where Scott Pilgrim bombed. Fucking shocking, that.

[Ricky]

I'm hoping that Nolan has shown that audiences want smart, intelligent films as well as awesome blockbusters, that we do want those two kinds of films combined

Well said. :thumbsup:

[mae]

On the Spielberg vs Nolan argument:

What cannot be ignored is that Spielberg did change the face of American cinema with quite a few films in that list: Jaws, ET, Raiders, all fucking blockbuster classics for very different reasons. I think the problem is that, unlike Nolan, he hasn't released any film that's had nearly that same level of impact for at least ten years now, or any kind of film that's nearly as great as his early work.


I can't disagree with that any more vehemently. One of Spielberg's most profound films was Munich, which was only five years ago. It blew my mind when I saw it in theaters, and it hasn't lost its power in subsequent viewings on DVD.

[fernandito]

I haven't seen Munich, but I've been meaning to. I heard it's a great film.

[Mattrick]

My mind says Nolan but my heart says Spielberg. Like they say, do what your heart says.

Spielberg.


Some of Spielbergs recent films, Munich, Minority Report, War of the Worlds, are all great. Guy hasn't showed any signs of slowing down his ability to make good movies.

[Jean]

I have yet to see a Spielberg movie that will impress me in any way

I have only seen three Nolans by now, and, although I really liked only The Prestige (which is indefinitely more than the number of Spielberg movies I liked, which is none), I found them all creations of a talent, - a feeling that I never had while watching any Spielberg.

[Mattrick]

You can't really compare the two. Nolan has brought an independent film style to blockbuster movies where as Steven Spielberg invented Blockbuster films. I like Spielberg because he's able to make films in so many genres.

Have you not seen Catch Me If You Can, Jean? Movie is just fantastic.

[Jean]

downloading it now

I want to finally be able to understand what my friends see in Spielberg.

[Mattrick]

I don't think it's anything specific. I find most of his movies just have a charm to them. Or in the case of War of the Worlds or Minority Report, a complete lack of charm. He makes very excellent movies for entertainment and he makes them well. Sure he might not always offer introspective masterpieces or anything, but he has an uncanny knack for making the unreal seem real.

The true value of his work as a director would be found in his more normal movies: Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal, Munich.

You should also download A.I. - Artificial Intelligence. The movie was basically made in honour of Stanely Kubrick and I think it's very underrated as a movie. It was the movie Kubrick didn't get to make.


EDIT - If you don't like Catch Me If You Can, you'll be about the first person I've known that said so.

[Jean]

sorry Mattrick, I absolutely hated A.I....

[Mattrick]

I can see why someone wouldn't like that movie.

[Jean]

You know, my main problem with Spielberg films is that I forget them on the next day. They don't stay with me. Somehow they fail to touch me on any level.

[alkanto]

Nolan gets my vote, solely for The Prestige and The Batman series.

Both directors are very good, and have made significant impact on the cinema, but the only way we can vote is to go with who we like the best. Greatness is completely subjective, so we shouldn't get too heated over another's opinion.

[mae]

Even Batman Begins, alkanto? With its chaotic cinematography that got nauseating many times?

Jean, if you haven't seen it, watch Munich. A work of a true genius.

[turtlex]

Munich is an under-rated gem, IMHO. It's outstanding. Just excellent! :thumbsup: pablo, good recommendation.

Gonna have to admit that I hated AI, too. Sorry.

However, as far as Nolan goes - I thought The Prestige was utterly forgettable.

[fernandito]

The Prestige is the very definition of underrated. :nope:

[turtlex]

The Prestige is the very definition of underrated. :nope:

Not in this thread! :lol:

Feev, et al, I just, you know, walked out of the theater and it was completely gone. Didn't stay with me at all, didn't impress me, nada. It was fun to watch but then ... gone.

I'm not going to argue for TDK ( you all know I have issues with it ) but what I cannot deny is that it's stayed with me. That Heath's performance was amazing, and I hand bringing that out, allowing that to happen and him to explore that side of himself, I hand that to Nolan.

Unfortunately, I just don't think he's got the depth to go up against Spielberg.

Maybe part of it is that more people have seen Nolan's films more recently ... maybe folks need to go revisit some of SS's movies again.

[Melike]

What if we compared early films to early films. Let's look at that angle.

What are Nolan's major release movies? In order, via IMDB ( skipping shorts / student films)

Doodlebug
Following
Memento
Insomnia
Batman Begins
The Prestige
Dark Knight
Inception
What are SS equal ones? In order, via IMDB ( skipping shorts, TV and student films )

The Sugarland Express
Jaws
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
1941
Raiders of the Lost Ark
ET
Twilight Zone
Temple of Doom




Sooooooo .................. Nolan wins ? :cyclops:
:rofl: I love you Shizzie.

[Ricky]

I thought The Prestige was utterly forgettable.

Everytime you say that, I die a little. :(

[Jean]

I thought The Prestige was utterly forgettable.

Everytime you say that, I die a little. :(

Quite.

I am very impressed by The Prestige. Very. I think I'll post in the Nolan thread - do we have a Nolan thread? I mean, the movie stayed with me and I like it more with every day - while (sorry guys) Memento has faded completely by now (though The Following still remains... unchanged).

[fernandito]

I think I'll post in the Nolan thread - do we have a Nolan thread?...

I was going to start one a long time ago, but I didn't think there were enough of us Nolanites to justify an entire thread. I think with his recent critical successes warrant him a thread of his own now. :)

[Seymour_Glass]

Nolan. I think his films are better crafted. Following, for instance, had none of the production values of anything Spielberg has done but was far more captivating to me.

[alkanto]

Even Batman Begins, alkanto? With its chaotic cinematography that got nauseating many times?

Jean, if you haven't seen it, watch Munich. A work of a true genius.

yep! It honestly didn't bother me that much. It was hardly as bad as Cloverfield, and the subject matter was 19x as brilliant. That movie is what made me fall in love with Batman again, and the reason I went to go see The Dark Knight

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

Spielburg. I did not even know who Nolan was before this contest.

[Still Servant]

You know, my main problem with Spielberg films is that I forget them on the next day. They don't stay with me. Somehow they fail to touch me on any level.

Really?

Wow, I have to say I'm really surprised. I mean the opening sequence of Saving Private Ryan might be the most realistic sequence ever put on film. That's not even a little memorable?

Honestly, pretty much all of Schindler's List is memorable. Not even for one second the day after you saw Schindler's List did you say, "Wow, that Ralph Fiennes did an amazing job?"

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

Actually, some of the MOST memorable films, for me, were from S.S. including, but not limited to. Jaws, Indiana Jones, E.T., etc.

[Jean]

Nolan. I think his films are better crafted. Following, for instance, had none of the production values of anything Spielberg has done but was far more captivating to me.
Absolutely. Because Following is a director's movie, not a producer's.



You know, my main problem with Spielberg films is that I forget them on the next day. They don't stay with me. Somehow they fail to touch me on any level.

Really?
Really.


Wow, I have to say I'm really surprised. I mean the opening sequence of Saving Private Ryan might be the most realistic sequence ever put on film. That's not even a little memorable?
No. Sorry, I can hardly remember what you're talking about. Maybe because I had seen a lot of Russian war movies, comparing to which anything Spielberg does will remain a Hollywood sugarcoated bigmac.


Honestly, pretty much all of Schindler's List is memorable. Not even for one second the day after you saw Schindler's List did you say, "Wow, that Ralph Fiennes did an amazing job?"
No.
I am very bitter about Schindler's List. I hope to post about it in detail sooner or later, because if I try to express myself in two words (as I have already done concerning this particular product) I fear I might be misunderstood - again. It is a movie I thoroughly hate.

Now, out of utter respect for you guys, I will watch Munich. I promise to be unbiased and watch it with a clear heart and an open mind.

[fernandito]

Damn, Nolan's lead has decreased dramatically ... :panic:

[Jean]

it is just plainly wrong

let alone that it is impossible

inconceivable

[turtlex]

Thank goodness.
As you know - I'm a Spielberg fan! :harrier:

[Jean]

I'll be damned if I know why...

[Mattrick]

Did you watch Catch Me If You Can yet?

[turtlex]

Thank goodness.
As you know - I'm a Spielberg fan! :harrier:


I'll be damned if I know why...

I can actually answer this fairly simply. His films have touched my life for many years. They have scared me, made me laugh, made me cry, made me think, made me catch my breath and hold it in anticipation. He is an excellent storyteller and his films have helped shape my enjoyment of cinema in general. I could no more go a year without seeing a Spielberg film, than I could go without breathing.

[Jean]

a very good answer, Pam. I see it perfectly well now. Sorry I can't share it, but at least I started feeling a little better towards Mr.Spielberg - because of the good feelings you have for him. (my own opinion remains unchanged, but it's an entirely different thing)

[turtlex]

:grouphug:

[Still Servant]

Jean, I'm interested to hear what you think of Munich. I didn't really like it for some reason. I'm not really sure why.

Also, give me the names of some of those Russian war movies. If they are as good as Saving Private Ryan, I might be interested.

[pathoftheturtle]

On the Spielberg vs Nolan argument:

What cannot be ignored is that Spielberg did change the face of American cinema with quite a few films...Quite. I just wish that someone would change it back. :P
...Steven Spielberg invented Blockbuster films. ...<_< Yeah... swell.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

If Spielburg loses this poll, I'm going to boycott the polls for the rest of the contest.
I absolutely cannot conceive of how Spielburg could lose to Nolan.

Here are the first 5 top ten lists I came upon.

1 (http://movies.toptenreviews.com/directors/list_all_time_director.htm)
2 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/3475636)
3http://www.filmsite.org/directors.html
4 (http://www.moviemaker.com/directing/article/the_25_most_influential_directors_of_all_time_3358/)
5 (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/01/02/most-profitable-directors-of-all-time/)

These are just the first five lists I came upon in order that they popped up. They are by no means comprehensive, and no one list is representative, but I think that, taken together, they might have some meaning. They all have two things in common.
1. Steven Spielburg is on it, in many cases as the number one spot.
2. Nolan is not.

[Mattrick]

On the Spielberg vs Nolan argument:

What cannot be ignored is that Spielberg did change the face of American cinema with quite a few films...Quite. I just wish that someone would change it back. :P
...Steven Spielberg invented Blockbuster films. ...<_< Yeah... swell.

Blockbusters today aren't what they were 10-20 years ago. Blockbusters today are just plain garbage. Inventions do often betray the inventor, do they not?

[Jean]

1. Jean, I'm interested to hear what you think of Munich. I didn't really like it for some reason. I'm not really sure why.

2. Also, give me the names of some of those Russian war movies. If they are as good as Saving Private Ryan, I might be interested.
1. I have watched only a half, and was very disappointed; I will comment on it when I'm through.
2. I will make up a list for you, somewhere in General Movie Discussion; I am not sure about as good as Saving Private Ryan - they are, well, different, nothing Hollywood about them.



On the Spielberg vs Nolan argument:

What cannot be ignored is that Spielberg did change the face of American cinema with quite a few films...Quite. I just wish that someone would change it back. :P
...Steven Spielberg invented Blockbuster films. ...<_< Yeah... swell.
Ditto on both counts.


If Spielburg loses this poll, I'm going to boycott the polls for the rest of the contest.
I absolutely cannot conceive of how Spielburg could lose to Nolan.

Here are the first 5 top ten lists I came upon.

1 (http://movies.toptenreviews.com/directors/list_all_time_director.htm)
2 (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/3475636)
3http://www.filmsite.org/directors.html
4 (http://www.moviemaker.com/directing/article/the_25_most_influential_directors_of_all_time_3358/)
5 (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/01/02/most-profitable-directors-of-all-time/)

These are just the first five lists I came upon in order that they popped up. They are by no means comprehensive, and no one list is representative, but I think that, taken together, they might have some meaning. They all have two things in common.
1. Steven Spielburg is on it, in many cases as the number one spot.
2. Nolan is not.
I don't understand this. I have never bought this kind of reasoning, and never will. Lists are made up by people, and what gets on them is always what can somehow satisfy the average expectations, and the average taste of those who make the list, be it general public, or critics, or journalists; something the majority can agree upon, and I personally do not believe the majority is ever right; I do not believe in such a thing as a collective opinion, or a collective mind: it is by definition inclined to opt for the mediocre. It is very much the same as what we had when we voted the best movie of all times - we got Shawshank, which is by no means the best, but more or less satisfies us on the average. What is great, original, outstanding, is very often hard to swallow; also, there's such a thing as established opinion, which doesn't have to be the same as mine or anybody's around here. I am surprised to see some names on those lists (though, of course, they include some real great people, thank God), and most of my favorite directors are not on any of the lists you linked; so what? I love whom I love, in accordance with my own tastes and experience in both life and cinema; I hope everyone does the same, without appealing to any authorities.

[pathoftheturtle]

Absolutely. I would boycott this community only if you all decided that we have to impose such standards that we're guaranteed reach the same general conclusions as all other online communities.

[fernandito]

Precisely. If that were the case, I'd just Google AFI's - or some other similar venue - Top 100 directors list and post them on here and have everyone vote for those. But I wanted folks to nominate the directors they thought were best because it would make for better discussions, better polls, and an all around better tournament. In other words, more fun.

[Still Servant]

Yeah, the tourney is just for fun. I love lists and tournaments, so I have a lot of fun with this stuff.

Just because somebody wins that I might not agree with, doesn't mean it's right. It's just a fun poll among friends. I'm sure Spielberg will not take offense if he loses to Nolan. :lol:

If Nolan does in fact beat Spielberg, it won't really bother me. I don't agree with it, but that's just the way it is.

By the way, I think Nolan is a great director and I hope and pray his best work is ahead of him.

[Darkthoughts]

Spielberg got my vote. I would give it to him, as I said before, for Jaws alone. I think he has this superhuman ability as a director for getting the most natural performances out of his cast, it's incredible to watch.

Nolan, well I've yet to see Momento and I'm looking forward to that, but even The Dark Knight was average to me. Maybe it was all the hype but, it didn't stand out from any other film made this decade so far. Heath Ledger's performance was not worthy of the unfortunate lengths he went to to immerse himself in the character, in my opinion.

[Brice]

There's no doubt that Spielberg is talented, but Nolan is a breath of fresh air in the film community, imo. Sometimes it's quality, not quantity.

Can you explain, please Ricky ... breath of fresh air? What has he done that's so counter to everything else we've seen before?

I mean, okay, I think he's got talent, but he can't touch Spielberg .. and if he can ... we haven't seen it yet. IMHO.

Sure. By that, I mean (in one example) that he's brought the psychological aspect back to films in a society where it's a statistical fact that the average movie-goer doesn't want to sit through a movie and actually think and have their minds prodded. To do that and to do that successfully deserves a large amount of respect. And from me, he's got it.

Pair that with his directing skills and artistic perspective, and you've got one director who's truly showing us something, not just making films to make them.

:nope: While I'd agree that most people are lazy in their viewing habits I'd dispute that it's a statistical fact except in the sense that anything can be a statistical fact. If you're going to use such an expression I want charts and graphs, dammit. :P

[Brice]

Spielberg

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

Spielberg got my vote. I would give it to him, as I said before, for Jaws alone. I think he has this superhuman ability as a director for getting the most natural performances out of his cast, it's incredible to watch.
Nolan, well I've yet to see Momento and I'm looking forward to that, but even The Dark Knight was average to me. Maybe it was all the hype but, it didn't stand out from any other film made this decade so far. Heath Ledger's performance was not worthy of the unfortunate lengths he went to to immerse himself in the character, in my opinion.

I just watched The Color Purple for the first time, and this statement pretty much sums up that movie as far as the performances of Whoopi Goldberg, Oprah Winfrey and Danny Glover. Really fantastic. And, prior to my seeing this movie, I would not have said that any of these were very good actors/actresses.

[candy]

This was really tough for me, as i grew up with SS films, Jaws, ET, close encounters where some of the best films i saw growing up and still stay with me now. I can still watch them and get a nostalgic feeling. I can sit back and be amused by how they have aged but also feel warm and fuzzy inside.

but.....i love ALL of nolans films, whereas SS did have a couple of clangers


nolan:beat:

[Heather19]

This is so tough. I still can't decide :panic: Well at least I have a few more days...

[pathoftheturtle]

...SS did have a couple of clangers...A couple? That is generous. Personally, I can't believe that there's folken singing praises of Minority Report. :rolleyes: Then, every time someone mentions Indiana Jones, the first thought that goes through my mind is that Raiders of the Lost Ark was a fairly good film... and the second is that Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was an extremely bad one.

[Jean]

Spielberg
somehow, I didn't expect this...

More Nolan votes, anyone? This is much too close for comfort.

[mae]

Spielberg
somehow, I didn't expect this...

More Nolan votes, anyone? This is much too close for comfort.

More Spielberg votes needed. :shoot:

[Melike]

Spielberg
somehow, I didn't expect this...

More Nolan votes, anyone? This is much too close for comfort.

Me too.:cry:

[Seymour_Glass]

I just think Nolan at his best is far superior to Spielberg at his.

[Jean]

tie at 14... what a night, I come home and see ties everywhere...

[SynysterSaint]

Spielberg makes blockbusters, not pieces of artwork. I can understand those who have a preference because they grew up with him, but his movies are no different than a million others on the market. Nolan, on the other hand, pushes the bounds of what it means to "watch a film" and uses his movies to convey levels of emotion that Spielberg has yet to graze. The Prestige, Inception, and Memento may not last in the hearts of Hollywood critics as long as the hard-hitting blockbusters Spielberg makes, but they certainly deserve more praise in my opinion.

To me, this round comes down to a battle of the bands: do you give the award to the band who makes the [basically] generic pop music that everyone is going to love for its modesty and time-tested appeal that lacks no risk, or the prog metal band who can play with your emotions and your mind like a puppet master but takes a chance with music not everyone will love?

I'm a prog musician, and as such Nolan gets my vote.

Also, I believe Ledger did a better job portraying the Joker than anyone gives him credit for; hype included. After I saw The Dark Knight, I got really angry that he died right before the film was released because I knew right then and there that his performance would be trivialized as "nothing but hype". The problem with The Dark Knight is that you have to be a long-time fan of Batman to really understand the character of the Joker. Sure, the inclusion of the Joker was a way to get people who have never watched a Batman movie to come and see it (the Joker is a common knowledge character and attracts fans), but it's also something more -- the Joker is the scariest villain of all time, hands down (sorry, Pennywise). Ledger put his entire soul into that part, and he proved to me that the Joker could exist in real life, and that's something I never thought was possible. I honestly believed I was watching a supervillain, not just a manic serial killer, and that's more than I can say of any other superhero movie I've ever seen. His portrayal of the Joker left me speechless -- it is, quite possibly, the best performance I've ever seen from an actor.

[Ricky]

Spielberg makes blockbusters, not pieces of artwork. I can understand those who have a preference because they grew up with him, but his movies are no different than a million others on the market. Nolan, on the other hand, pushes the bounds of what it means to "watch a film" and uses his movies to convey levels of emotion that Spielberg has yet to graze. The Prestige, Inception, and Memento may not last in the hearts of Hollywood critics as long as the hard-hitting blockbusters Spielberg makes, but they certainly deserve more praise in my opinion.


Well spoken, SS. Your entire post sums up my feelings on the matter perfectly. :clap:

[turtlex]

Spielberg makes blockbusters, not pieces of artwork.

Honestly, I don't see how these two things have to exclusive.

Saving Private Ryan, Munich, ET, Jurassic Park, Jaws, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, Schlinders List, Empire of the Sun. Just to name a few. These are works of film art. Just because some of them made a boat-load of dough, who cares?

[Jean]

they don't have to be exclusive, but, alas, in most cases, they are; I have to agree with Synyster that they definitely are in this particular case

[SynysterSaint]

Honestly, I don't see how these two things have to exclusive.

Saving Private Ryan, Munich, ET, Jurassic Park, Jaws, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, Schlinders List, Empire of the Sun. Just to name a few. These are works of film art. Just because some of them made a boat-load of dough, who cares?

As Jean has said, the two [blockbuster and artwork] don't have to be exclusive of one another. Unfortunately, with most films they are. There are some exceptions (I think that Inception could be cited as one), but not films under the guidance of Spielberg.

As I wrote in my "battle of the bands" analogy, Spielberg goes for the mundane and the safe; his films do not push any boundaries, and his direction style can be likened to that of a dozen other directors. Take E.T. or Jurassic Park, for example. They are both phenomenal films, but they would turn out relatively similar stylistically had another director come on board. Not to be overly-harsh toward Spielberg (as I do enjoy his films), but there is nothing special or individual about his film direction.

On the other hand, the three Nolan films I mentioned [The Prestige, Inception, and Memento] could not have been made without his guidance and vision. All three have proven that there are still areas of film that we have yet to fully realize or pursue; that storytelling has not come round full circle. There are always new avenues of direction and adaptation, and there is only one director in this poll who is pursuing them: Nolan.

For that very fact, I have to give my utmost respect to Nolan and his ability as a director. I love Speilberg films, but he just cannot do what Nolan does with finesse and an artist's hand.

[Darkthoughts]

I'm going to have to watch more of Nolan's work, because I really didn't get any of that from The Dark Knight.

I've been a Batman comics fan for a long time, so I'm well aware of the Joker's depths as a character. I just...I dunno, I'm not saying I didn't rate Ledger's performance at all and I'm not even saying that I compared it to the hype, what I meant was - it wasn't that radical of a portrayal to me. I even thought Nicholson's Joker was creepier, Nicholson seems insane to me at the best of times and the Joker fit him, even though it was a very spoof like performance. But scenes such as when he was talking about Alicia "falling" out of a window, were excellently psychopathic and insane - I don't think Ledger took it further .

The Dark Knight was a blockbuster in every sense of the word. I don't disagree that Spielberg's film are too, but I feel he gets more out of his characters in terms of natural performance.

[SynysterSaint]

1) I'm going to have to watch more of Nolan's work, because I really didn't get any of that from The Dark Knight.

2) But scenes such as when he was talking about Alicia "falling" out of a window, were excellently psychopathic and insane - I don't think Ledger took it further .

3) I feel [Spielberg] gets more out of his characters in terms of natural performance.

1) The Dark Knight certainly doesn't show the "best" of Nolan. Although his direction of the film was great, Nolan didn't push himself to create a mindfuck experience as much as he did with what I'm going to start referring to as the "Big Three" (The Prestige, Memento, Inception). I guarantee you that if you watch all of the Big Three, your opinion of him will change.

2) The way that the Joker has been portrayed before and the way Ledger portrayed him are two very different things. I completely agree that Nicholson came across as completely mental and psychopathic. But you see, that's why I preferred Ledger's performance. As I said, Ledger really brought the role to life for me in a way I never thought it could be -- he made the Joker seem like a real person. Nicholson's Joker was obviously fictitious and over-the-top; he was very surreal. Instead, Ledger brought qualities that took the Joker from the big screen and put him into scope as a real human being with real issues; he was very real. That's what makes me think so highly of his performance: he brought a character that has always been shown as too-obscene-to-be-real and made him too-real-to-be-fiction. And yet Ledger was able to retain that feeling of surreal storytelling through the character, even while I sat there mortified believing the Joker could exist.

3) Spielberg has always had a knack for getting very real performances out of his cast (I'm looking at you, Jurassic Park!). I'm by no means degrading Spielberg's ability in that area, I just think that Nolan can do it better.

[fernandito]

Spielberg makes blockbusters, not pieces of artwork. I can understand those who have a preference because they grew up with him, but his movies are no different than a million others on the market.

I voted for Nolan, he's probably my favorite director at the moment, and I agree with everything you said about him, but I strongly disagree with this^. Films like Schindler's List, Jurassic Park and Saving Private Ryan - especially the latter - are certainly works of art. While the thematic undercurrents of each of these films can be interpreted as either positive or negative, there's no denying the imprint they've left on modern cinema. They're referenced, discussed, and even payed homage to in different mediums, testament to their staying power and level of impact.


I even thought Nicholson's Joker was creepier, Nicholson seems insane to me at the best of times and the Joker fit him, even though it was a very spoof like performance. But scenes such as when he was talking about Alicia "falling" out of a window, were excellently psychopathic and insane - I don't think Ledger took it further .


Nicholson in Batman was just playing Nicholson with make-up. Even at the pinnacle of his powers in Batman, in the back of your mind you're still imagining him as simply Nicholson with a coat of paint splashed on. Ledger completely lost himself in his role, there isn't a single trace of him anywhere. If you didn't know before hand that Ledger was cast in the role of the Joker, would you have known it was him in TDK ? He was able to switch from manipulative, to psychotic, to a demented sort of cheerful, with perfect ease and in the blink of eye. It will be a long time before we get a performance of that magnitude from any actor.

[SynysterSaint]

Films like Schindler's List, Jurassic Park and Saving Private Ryan - especially the latter - are certainly works of art. While the thematic undercurrents of each of these films can be interpreted as either positive or negative, there's no denying the imprint they've left on modern cinema. They're referenced, discussed, and even payed homage to in different mediums, testament to their staying power and level of impact.

Staying power doesn't imply film as an art form; all it implies is popularity. Titanic is still popular, and it holds little to no real-world meaning or value. And if you're going to talk about the thematic undercurrents of the film, then you have to credit the screenplay writers, not the director. And Spielberg didn't write any of the films you mentioned.


Nicholson in Batman was just playing Nicholson with make-up. Even at the pinnacle of his powers in Batman, in the back of your mind you're still imagining him as simply Nicholson with a coat of paint splashed on. Ledger completely lost himself in his role, there isn't a single trace of him anywhere. If you didn't know before hand that Ledger was cast in the role of the Joker, would you have known it was him in TDK ? He was able to switch from manipulative, to psychotic, to a demented sort of cheerful, with perfect ease and in the blink of eye. It will be a long time before we get a performance of that magnitude from any actor.

I took the discussion to a completely different point in my response, but I very much like you went about it, feev. Well said.

[fernandito]

Staying power doesn't imply film as an art form; all it implies is popularity.


Certainly not, but when you take into account that the films have also been showered with praise by critics as well as the general audience, and have received countless awards in virtually all facets of film making - technical areas, best actor awards, choreography, cinematography etc.- then it brings into sharper focuses why he's such a highly regarded director.



And if you're going to talk about the thematic undercurrents of the film, then you have to credit the screenplay writers, not the director. And Spielberg didn't write any of the films you mentioned.

No he didn't, but the only film that Nolan wrote by himself is Inception, his latest film , his earlier films have been written largely by other individuals ... does that mean that the success of his earlier films are due mainly to the writing capabilities of other people, and not his own prowess as a director ?




Nicholson in Batman was just playing Nicholson with make-up. Even at the pinnacle of his powers in Batman, in the back of your mind you're still imagining him as simply Nicholson with a coat of paint splashed on. Ledger completely lost himself in his role, there isn't a single trace of him anywhere. If you didn't know before hand that Ledger was cast in the role of the Joker, would you have known it was him in TDK ? He was able to switch from manipulative, to psychotic, to a demented sort of cheerful, with perfect ease and in the blink of eye. It will be a long time before we get a performance of that magnitude from any actor.

I took the discussion to a completely different point in my response, but I very much like you went about it, feev. Well said.


Hey, at least we can agree on this ! :lol: :thumbsup:

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

I was completely unimpressed with The Dark Knight or Batman Begins......I much more enjoyed the first two Burton films.

[DoctorDodge]

Nicholson in Batman was just playing Nicholson with make-up. Even at the pinnacle of his powers in Batman, in the back of your mind you're still imagining him as simply Nicholson with a coat of paint splashed on. Ledger completely lost himself in his role, there isn't a single trace of him anywhere. If you didn't know before hand that Ledger was cast in the role of the Joker, would you have known it was him in TDK ? He was able to switch from manipulative, to psychotic, to a demented sort of cheerful, with perfect ease and in the blink of eye. It will be a long time before we get a performance of that magnitude from any actor.

Slightly off topic feev, but you have to watch Stephen Graham's performance as Combo in This Is England to see a performance that matches the magnitude of Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker. To say "he plays a racist" doesn't do it justice: you get one of the most complex performances that you're ever going to see on film. One moment he could be in some crude way seem like a nice person to hang out with, one who's fair and apologises if he feels he's done wrong, but the next moment he could be ready to smash you to a pulp if you say the wrong thing. One truly amazing moment is you don't see him suddenly go from cool to being in a total rage: you actually see the rage slowly but surely building up in his eyes, and you know what's going to happen. To make that kind of emotional range totally believeable is a testament to Stephen Graham as an actor.

Sorry I just went off topic there, I just felt I should make the point that I truly believe there are amazing and varied performances out there to match and possibly outdo Ledger's portrayal as the Joker. Not saying that he wasn't one of the best ones out there, but there are other performances in film that can't be ignored.

[Heather19]

Nolan :ninja:

[DoctorDodge]

Nolan :ninja:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u293/rivyer15/doctor%20who%20emoticons/Masterthumbs.gif

[SynysterSaint]

Certainly not, but when you take into account that the films have also been showered with praise by critics as well as the general audience, and have received countless awards in virtually all facets of film making - technical areas, best actor awards, choreography, cinematography etc.- then it brings into sharper focuses why he's such a highly regarded director.

Again, Spielberg is a good director but his films lack individuality. You can't credit a director for the writing in a movie he didn't write; you can only look at the direction. And Spielberg's direction isn't different or special, but he's always given credit for it. A lot of it has to do with the strength of the screenplays that he agrees to direct for.

Going back to my music analogy, there is a metalcore band from New Haven (where I'm from) called Hatebreed who have been playing together for about 10 years. Only recently have they gotten critical acclaim and have been recognized as a good metalcore band. However, there are dozens of other bands who have that generic Black Sabbath/Dio sound, so they are given the critical acclaim. Now, are these bands better than Hatebreed? No, they aren't. In most cases, they aren't anywhere near as good or technical as Hatebreed. But these bands got lucky and hit it big earlier than Hatebreed, so they get the attention.

It's the same way with directors: you either get lucky and hit it big or you don't. Spielberg got lucky and hit it big early on. My point is that there are dozens of other directors out there whose movies look and feel exactly the same as Spielberg but aren't given credit because they hit it big after him. You can't say the same of Nolan.


No he didn't, but the only film that Nolan wrote by himself is Inception, his latest film , his earlier films have been written largely by other individuals ... does that mean that the success of his earlier films are due mainly to the writing capabilities of other people, and not his own prowess as a director ?

Going back to the Big Three: as you already said, Inception was written by him; The Prestige screenplay was written by him, although he got the inspiration from a short story his brother wrote; and Memento was based off a book but he wrote the screenplay himself with some editing done by his brother (the same one who wrote the short story before The Prestige). So yes, he did write all of his screenplays by himself. And, as such, his direction in the movies was that much better.


Hey, at least we can agree on this ! :lol: :thumbsup:

:lol: Definitely! Anyone who enjoys Ledger's Joker is fine by me :thumbsup:

[Brice]

Spielberg
somehow, I didn't expect this...

More Nolan votes, anyone? This is much too close for comfort.




Spielberg
somehow, I didn't expect this...

More Nolan votes, anyone? This is much too close for comfort.

Me too.:cry:

Aww! :huglove: :huglove:

Five or ten years from now Nolan might have enough great films to make a comparison, but for me he's just not there. I mean I've really enjoyed what films I've seen by him, but I do like a lot of Spielberg's too.

[turtlex]

I have to agree with the comments on The Dark Knight being nothing more than a blockbuster. To me, it doesn't even come close to being art. You all know how I feel about it, I think, so I'll not get into it here, but really ... with the exception of Heath Ledger's performance, it's just a big loud movie.

[mae]

I have to agree with the comments on The Dark Knight being nothing more than a blockbuster. To me, it doesn't even come close to being art. You all know how I feel about it, I think, so I'll not get into it here, but really ... with the exception of Heath Ledger's performance, it's just a big loud movie.

Hear, hear! :clap:

And Batman Begins was a mess. Burton's Batmans were much much better, dark and gothic like they should be.

Spielberg, on the other hand, has made dozens of verifiable masterpieces. His name alone lends credibility to any project in most people's minds. Nolan, while a very good young director, is not there yet. It seems as though he may, as his career goes on, get to the level of the Spielbergs, Scorseses, Scotts, et al - but like I said, he's not there yet.

Vote Spielberg! :thumbsup:

[fernandito]

You can't credit a director for the writing in a movie he didn't write; you can only look at the direction.


Uhh, I'm not giving any director writing credit when they don't deserve it ... you're the one that keeps bringing up the writing dude :lol:

The thing is that being a good writer does not necessarily make you a good director. Look at Shyamalan (who was labeled as 'the next Spielberg', ironically enough) - started off great, had a lot of ideas that he wrote down and transformed into films, but unfortunately those films bombed because he was not able to faithfully recreate the magic of the story in the written word into it's intended format, the visual medium. So he's presumably learning from his lesson now and only writing the scripts, and leaving the directorial duties in more capable hands. Being able to take a good script and transform it into a coherent, compelling sequence of images is part of what makes a good director, and Spielberg has that in spades.



And Spielberg's direction isn't different or special, but he's always given credit for it. A lot of it has to do with the strength of the screenplays that he agrees to direct for.


Spielberg has a great artistic vision, and excellent story telling methods. Saying that the only reason his films have any sort of impact is because of the projects he chooses is like saying the only reason Nolan's Batman films are so well regarded are because Batman is a well established character, and not because of Nolan's abilities as a director.

Schindler's List is a very powerful film because it's a story that Spielberg wanted to tell , knew how he wanted to tell it, and was invested in it emotionally -presumably because of his heritage/lineage. The film wouldn't have been been half as memorable if any other director had taken the reigns. Same goes for Nolan and the Batman films. He was invested in the character and his origins, knew how he wanted to tell it, and set it out to do in precisely that method.



I have to agree with the comments on The Dark Knight being nothing more than a blockbuster. To me, it doesn't even come close to being art. You all know how I feel about it, I think, so I'll not get into it here, but really ... with the exception of Heath Ledger's performance, it's just a big loud movie.

The fact that The Dark Knight resonated so strongly with so many groups of people is a strong indication that it's a genuine work of art. It's more than just a 'big loud movie', it's rich with subtext and touches on various themes that can be related to in a human way and is applicable to our every day world - obsession, duality, terrorism (and everything that this term encompasses), large scale cover ups, invasion of privacy, the blurry and often invisible line between good and evil, etc. To say that this film is nothing more than a blockbuster seems like willful naivety to me.


[
And Batman Begins was a mess. Burton's Batmans were much much better, dark and gothic like they should be.


You mean, the same gothic world populated by lackeys that wear sunglasses and purple jackets , a villain that escapes on a 10 foot rubber ducky, or a flock of penguins marching down a street with missiles strapped to their back ? :P

What makes Nolan's Batman universe so unique is that he didn't create a world for these characters to exist, he made us believe that they could exist in our world.

[Melike]

What makes Nolan's Batman universe so unique is that he didn't create a world for these characters to exist, he made us believe that they could exist in our world.

:wub:

[fernandito]

:huglove:

[mae]

And Batman Begins was a mess. Burton's Batmans were much much better, dark and gothic like they should be.


You mean, the same gothic world populated by lackeys that wear sunglasses and purple jackets , a villain that escapes on a 10 foot rubber ducky, or a flock of penguins marching down a street with missiles strapped to their back ? :P

What makes Nolan's Batman universe so unique is that he didn't create a world for these characters to exist, he made us believe that they could exist in our world.

Is there something wrong with that? Burton's Batmans were fun to watch. They were visually interesting. They had amazing scores, some of the best scores ever recorded, in my humble opinion. They worked precisely because they didn't take in our world. Making Batman realistic was an interesting touch, but for me Nolan's Batmans were not as exciting. Yes, Ledger's Joker was astonishing, but that's just a piece of the puzzle. Everything else was kinda a mess, again.

[fernandito]

And Batman Begins was a mess. Burton's Batmans were much much better, dark and gothic like they should be.


You mean, the same gothic world populated by lackeys that wear sunglasses and purple jackets , a villain that escapes on a 10 foot rubber ducky, or a flock of penguins marching down a street with missiles strapped to their back ? :P

Is there something wrong with that?

I'll pretend that this is a rhetorical question.



Burton's Batmans were fun to watch. They were visually interesting.


So were Nolan's.



They had amazing scores, some of the best scores ever recorded, in my humble opinion.


Yeah, Prince's happy go lucky song Trust went beautifully with Burton's dark, gothic world :rolleyes:



They worked precisely because they didn't take in our world. Making Batman realistic was an interesting touch, but for me Nolan's Batmans were not as exciting.


The opposite is true for me. Grounding the Batman universe as close to reality as possible make them a more compelling set of films to watch than Burton's renditions.



Yes, Ledger's Joker was astonishing, but that's just a piece of the puzzle. Everything else was kinda a mess, again.

You keep saying "it's a mess, it's a mess". How is it a mess , exactly ?

[Seymour_Glass]

I think Nolan's Batman films are the only legitimate adaptation of what made the comics so great.

I honestly was not interested at all by Burton's Batman.

[turtlex]

:couple: Feev, I love and respect you, my friend, but we will have to agree to disagree on The Dark Knight. We see it in very different lights and textures.

[mae]

:couple: Feev, I love and respect you, my friend, but we will have to agree to disagree on The Dark Knight. We see it in very different lights and textures.

Ditto.

I'd rather not get into this Burton vs. Nolan discussion. It's all subjective, isn't it? To me, Burton's style spoke a lot more than did Nolan's. Yes, even the Prince songs. In fact, thanks for reminding me, I'll put the Prince album on now :) But I meant Elfman's scores.

[fernandito]

Fair enough :)

[DoctorDodge]

Also, the Batman soundtrack LP can clearly come in useful, especially when you need weapons to use against zombies!

[Seymour_Glass]

:thumbsup:

[SynysterSaint]

Uhh, I'm not giving any director writing credit when they don't deserve it ... you're the one that keeps bringing up the writing dude :lol:

I can see where my argument might be a bit confusing; I'm not always the best at articulating everything as we've found out :lol:

What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't judge an entire film by Spielberg (say Jurassic Park or Schindler's List) against an entire film by Nolan. Someone may have enjoyed Spielberg movies more than Nolan movies, but that doesn't make Spielberg a better director. A lot of what I've been seeing in these threads are people voting for their favorite movies without actually taking into account the jobs/responsibilities the directors held over the film. It's the prerogative of the voter to choose the person they feel is the winner, but the discussions seem to go a bit off-topic and end up discussing film generalizations and not director specifics (which I, too, have been guilty of thus far and probably later in this same post).


Spielberg has a great artistic vision, and excellent story telling methods. Saying that the only reason his films have any sort of impact is because of the projects he chooses is like saying the only reason Nolan's Batman films are so well regarded are because Batman is a well established character, and not because of Nolan's abilities as a director.

I'm not saying that his films only have impact because of the script. What I was saying was that the only reason Spielberg is given more credit than other directors of the same style is because of the films he has signed on to. You can't find a director with the same style as Nolan, but Spielberg-esque directors are a dime-a-dozen. The only difference between Spielberg and the Spielberg-esque directors are the notoriety, which comes from being put on big-budget blockbuster films. By no means am I diminishing Spielberg's abilities as a director; I'm trying to elevate Nolan to a level close to (or, dare I say, above) Spielberg because he is unique, talented, and has not been given the notoriety he deserves for his individualism.


Schindler's List is a very powerful film because it's a story that Spielberg wanted to tell , knew how he wanted to tell it, and was invested in it emotionally -presumably because of his heritage/lineage. The film wouldn't have been been half as memorable if any other director had taken the reigns. Same goes for Nolan and the Batman films. He was invested in the character and his origins, knew how he wanted to tell it, and set it out to do in precisely that method.

But that's my point: Spielberg's style of direction is generic. He was emotionally invested in it, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that dozens of other novice directors have the exact same style and directorial habits as he does. Granted, the acting was superb; I'm not sure any other director could have gotten such a realistic performance out of his cast in that aspect.


The fact that The Dark Knight resonated so strongly with so many groups of people is a strong indication that it's a genuine work of art. It's more than just a 'big loud movie', it's rich with subtext and touches on various themes that can be related to in a human way and is applicable to our every day world - obsession, duality, terrorism (and everything that this term encompasses), large scale cover ups, invasion of privacy, the blurry and often invisible line between good and evil, etc. To say that this film is nothing more than a blockbuster seems like willful naivety to me.

I would put it on a lower level than the Big Three, but I certainly agree with you that The Dark Knight can be likened to a work of art. The direction is obviously what we should be discussing, not the movies in their entirety, and the direction of The Dark Knight is nearly flawless. I never saw a single camera shot/angle, lighting decision, costume choice, or prop/setting choice that didn't fully immerse me in the film.


What makes Nolan's Batman universe so unique is that he didn't create a world for these characters to exist, he made us believe that they could exist in our world.

I couldn't agree more with you on this one, feev. I loved how he was able to bring all of the characters in with a sense of "reality" into a world we already knew and could empathize with. As I've said, Ledger's portrayal of the Joker stuck with me because of the realism I felt emanating from the character.

[SynysterSaint]

Our posts are getting so long, feev! :wtf:

[Jean]

A lot of what I've been seeing in these threads are people voting for their favorite movies without actually taking into account the jobs/responsibilities the directors held over the film.
This.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

And Batman Begins was a mess. Burton's Batmans were much much better, dark and gothic like they should be.


You mean, the same gothic world populated by lackeys that wear sunglasses and purple jackets , a villain that escapes on a 10 foot rubber ducky, or a flock of penguins marching down a street with missiles strapped to their back ? :P

What makes Nolan's Batman universe so unique is that he didn't create a world for these characters to exist, he made us believe that they could exist in our world.

Is there something wrong with that? Burton's Batmans were fun to watch. They were visually interesting. They had amazing scores, some of the best scores ever recorded, in my humble opinion. They worked precisely because they didn't take in our world. Making Batman realistic was an interesting touch, but for me Nolan's Batmans were not as exciting. Yes, Ledger's Joker was astonishing, but that's just a piece of the puzzle. Everything else was kinda a mess, again.

This is precisely why I prefer Burton's Batman films. I prefer movies with graphic heritage to look that way. I want to be immersed in the fantasy. I want the villains to be larger than life, and the heroes even greater. I don't want Batman to be the guy that lives around the block. And, as far as the gothic appeal of Burton's Batman, I think that this is referring to the gothic appeal of most of his movies. From the color schemes of his cinematography (the drab blues, purple and other dark colors of so many of his movies), the architecture of his buildings, the fact that it was almost perpetually night in the movies, the music. It FELT like a comic book (excuse me graphic novel) which is what I WANT from this type of movie.

[Brice]

A lot of what I've been seeing in these threads are people voting for their favorite movies without actually taking into account the jobs/responsibilities the directors held over the film.
This.

Well, inevitably it seems best almost always degrades to favorite in these things.

[fernandito]

Oh snaps, we're tied ! :panic:

[Jean]

oh no

More Nolan, people!

...Are you watching closely?...

[mae]

YES YES THERE IS A GOD. A FEW MORE VOTES FOR STEVE! :panic:

[fernandito]

YES YES THE DEVIL DOES EXIST ! A FEW MORE VOTES FOR STEVE! :panic:

I KNOW, RIGHT ?!

:D

[Brice]

:o Feev! I am shocked! Misquoting people? You do realize you are stooping to the level...to the tactics of people like like LIKE..... ME! :lol:

[Jean]

:o Feev! I am shocked! Misquoting people? You do realize you are stooping to the level...to the tactics of people like like LIKE..... ME! :lol: heinous

[fernandito]

... Oh man ... you're right ... what have I become ? .... :cry:

[Jean]

unspeakable

but essentially right...

[DoctorDodge]

... Oh man ... you're right ... what have I become ? .... :cry:

You have abused your powers and the knowledge you have gained as manager wrongly, no matter how righteous your course or your intentions were!

I always wanted to say something as stupidly melodramatic as that! :lol:

[Jean]

wow

::awestruck::

[DoctorDodge]

I must admit, I do like being unnecessarily and completely melodramatic! I should do it more often! Like Withnail in Withnail and I when he's pissed!

"This is a mistake I tell you! This is a dreadful mistake!"

[Jean]

I think I should watch Withnail

[DoctorDodge]

You should. It's a film I haven't been able to stop quoting since I watched it.

And on that note, i'm actually going to go out now and look for the Prestige! Hopefully I'll post my thoughts later, if not, I'll have to order it! One way or another, i'm going to actually watch a film you recommended Jean before you watch another one I recommended! :lol:

[Jean]

... and then suddenly you won't like it, and all my other recommendations will go down the drain...............

[mae]

Sexual favors for anyone who votes for Spielberg :huglove:

[fernandito]

A half eaten burrito for anyone who votes for Nolan. :D

[turtlex]

Please see pablo and vote Spielberg !! :lol:

[mae]

You've gotta be shitting me, less than an hour to go, are we gonna have another tie? :scared:

Spielberg people, Spielberg!

[Jean]

you mean, Nolan. It's ok, pablo, everybody can make a mistake.

[mae]

Is it that nobody wants sexual favors, or nobody wants sexual favors from me? :P

[pathoftheturtle]

...I'd rather not get into this Burton vs. Nolan discussion. It's all subjective, isn't it? ...

Maybe, maybe not. However, I'd rather not get into it, either. Just two points I'll mention: 1.) Nolan is great, 2.) Both of them beat hell out of Joel Schumacher.

[fernandito]

At the time the poll closed, there were 17 voters that clearly indicated - through their posts - which director they voted for, and they were divided as such :

Nolan
feverishparade
jean
Melike
Ricky
DoctorDodge
pathofturtle
alkanto
seymour glass
candy
SynysterSaint
Heather19

Spielberg
pablo
turtlex
Mattrick
Browningschilde
Darkthoughts
Brice


11 to 6, Nolan advances ! :dance:

[Jean]

::sigh of relief::

[Melike]

http://tr.boincstats.com/graphics/emoticons/happy.gif

[Ricky]

:excited:

[mae]

:nope::pullhair:

[SynysterSaint]

:onfire:

[DoctorDodge]

... and then suddenly you won't like it, and all my other recommendations will go down the drain...............

:lol: Nah, I really enjoyed it, Jean. Far from being one of my favourite films ever, but a really good film, nonetheless. Also rated and reviewed it too.

Oh, and anyone who enjoyed Quadrophenia and This Is England as much as you did always deserves listening to!

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bearheart.gif

[Brice]

Is it that nobody wants sexual favors, or nobody wants sexual favors from me? :P

yes :P

[turtlex]

Shoot me now. :shoot:

I was joking around with my girlfriend last night, and mentioned that maybe all the Nolan fans will be disappointed when he becomes the next M.Night Shyamalan. Remember how the whole planet was tripping all over itself calling him the best thing since sliced bread when Sixth Sense came out? Just sayin.

I sincerely can't believe he beat Spielberg.

[mae]

It's a dark day indeed...

[turtlex]

YouTube - Bitter - Teddy Geiger (The Rocker Soundtrack)

I'm not bitter. :cry: Just very very sad. :cry:

[DoctorDodge]

I've got the perfect song for you, pam:

YouTube - Scott Pilgrim vs The World Soundtrack 06- I'm So Sad, So Very, Very Sad

And for a bonus, you can dedicate the song afterwards to all us Nolan lovers!

[pathoftheturtle]

...maybe all the Nolan fans will be disappointed when he becomes the next M.Night Shyamalan...Worse yet, what if he becomes the next Steven Spielberg?! :scared:

[fernandito]

:lol: :clap:

[Seymour_Glass]

t maybe all the Nolan fans will be disappointed when he becomes the next M.Night Shyamalan.

If he ever does turn to crap like Shamalamadingdong at least he has more than two good films behind him.

[fernandito]

t maybe all the Nolan fans will be disappointed when he becomes the next M.Night Shyamalan.

If he ever does turn to crap like Shamalamadingdong at least he has more than two good films behind him.

Pack your bags, I'm adopting you, even though I'm only a few years older than you :lol:

[Seymour_Glass]

:nana::dance::rock:

I am honored.

[Jean]

...maybe all the Nolan fans will be disappointed when he becomes the next M.Night Shyamalan...Worse yet, what if he becomes the next Steven Spielberg?! :scared: http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gif

[turtlex]

...maybe all the Nolan fans will be disappointed when he becomes the next M.Night Shyamalan...Worse yet, what if he becomes the next Steven Spielberg?! :scared:

I can only hope, and do look forward to that progression. :grouphug:

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

Have fun with the rest of the tournament.

[fernandito]

Lates. :)

[SynysterSaint]

Worse yet, what if he becomes the next Steven Spielberg?! :scared:

:wtf::clap:

[pathoftheturtle]

t maybe all the Nolan fans will be disappointed when he becomes the next M.Night Shyamalan.

If he ever does turn to crap like Shamalamadingdong at least he has more than two good films behind him.Yeah! :) That's right on, Seymour, but "Shamalamadingdong"? I'll gladly rip on the crap films I've endured from him, but it still seems a bit petty to make fun of the guy's name.

[DoctorDodge]

Yeah, I mean if you were to take the piss out of his name Seymour, at least make it fit, like shortening his name to "M. Night Sham", for example. Matches nearly all his work, then!

[Seymour_Glass]

The reality of the situation is that I just couldn't spell it.:P

But really, I don't mean to offend anybody, but I think that Christopher Nolan is a far better director than Spielberg, in terms of artistry and the emotional and intellectual responses he's provoked in me, personally.

[Jean]

hear, hear