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View Full Version : TGDT - Round 2 - Tim Burton vs Stanley Kubrick



fernandito
09-06-2010, 08:15 AM
Tim Burton's IMDB Page (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000318/)
Notable films: Edward Scissorhands, Beetlejuice, Big Fish, Corpse Bride, Alice in Wonderland
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/heather1019/board%20pics/BDOAT/TimBurton.jpg



Stanley Kubrick's IMDB Page (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000040/)
Notable Films: A Clockwork Orange, The Shining, Dr. Strangelove , Full Metal Jacket, 2001: A Space Odyssey
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/heather1019/board%20pics/BDOAT/StanleyKubrick.jpg

fernandito
09-06-2010, 08:16 AM
Stanley Kubrick. A true auteur, and one of the greatest film makers of all time.

Heather19
09-06-2010, 08:24 AM
Burton

fernandito
09-06-2010, 08:27 AM
Burton

http://www.dahmus.org/blogimg/fry-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

Heather19
09-06-2010, 08:30 AM
:lol:

Jean
09-06-2010, 08:37 AM
Stanley Kubrick. A true auteur, and one of the greatest film makers of all time.
Right.

Kubrick.

mae
09-06-2010, 08:41 AM
I love Tim, I really do, but if the Final is not Hitchcock vs. Kubrick, y'all don't know fucking movies :P

Sam
09-06-2010, 08:43 AM
Stanley Kubrick. A true auteur, and one of the greatest film makers of all time.

I disagree with you. I hate to say it (and I really do hate to say this) but I have never enjoyed a single Kubrick film. I really liked the first half of Full Metal Jacket, and then there was the rest of the movie. I don't think he has really contributed much to the film industry as a whole, though he HAS created some very memorable characters like HAL, R. Lee Ermey's drill instructor (thought I don't think that was a "character", I think that was Ermey himself), and Alex. I don't believe he gave us much more than that though. Of course that's my opinion.

My vote goes to Burton...
obviously.

Sam
09-06-2010, 08:45 AM
I love Tim, I really do, but if the Final is not Hitchcock vs. Kubrick, y'all don't know fucking movies :P

Hey, hey, hey, hey, HEY!!!

I'll go to my grave saying Kurosawa should be in AND WIN the finals.

Hitchcock my achin' ass<_<

Jean
09-06-2010, 08:51 AM
Well, there are three people bears consider the greatest directors of all times, and none of them is Kubrick. I still consider him a brilliant director - even though I didn't really love any of his movies. (That's why we have different Oscar nominations for "best film" and "best director", by the way)

fernandito
09-06-2010, 08:52 AM
Stanley Kubrick. A true auteur, and one of the greatest film makers of all time.

I disagree with you. I hate to say it (and I really do hate to say this) but I have never enjoyed a single Kubrick film. I really liked the first half of Full Metal Jacket, and then there was the rest of the movie. I don't think he has really contributed much to the film industry as a whole...

I can understand you not liking his films, but to say that he hasn't contributed much to the industry as a whole ... I'm sorry Sam, but that's just naive.

mae
09-06-2010, 08:55 AM
Stanley Kubrick. A true auteur, and one of the greatest film makers of all time.

I disagree with you. I hate to say it (and I really do hate to say this) but I have never enjoyed a single Kubrick film. I really liked the first half of Full Metal Jacket, and then there was the rest of the movie. I don't think he has really contributed much to the film industry as a whole, though he HAS created some very memorable characters like HAL, R. Lee Ermey's drill instructor (thought I don't think that was a "character", I think that was Ermey himself), and Alex. I don't believe he gave us much more than that though. Of course that's my opinion.

My vote goes to Burton...
obviously.

Of course you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and these polls are nothing but an exercise of opinions, but speaking objectively, how can you say that you "don't think he has really contributed much to the film industry as a whole" - that's just plain wrong and not a matter of opinion.

The AFI lists four Kubrick films in its 100 Greatest Films list, with "2001" at #15. Here's a nice overview of Kubrick's impact on cinema: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubrick#Legacy

My personal favorite of his though is "Barry Lyndon". It's an astonishing masterpiece.

Seymour_Glass
09-06-2010, 10:02 AM
Stanley Kubrick is a wizard. I've never seen a film of his that's failed to astonish me.

Jean
09-06-2010, 10:06 AM
Stanley Kubrick is a wizard. I've never seen a film of his that's failed to astonish me.
This is true. On the other hand, I've never seen a film of his that has touched me deeply on emotional level; or, more exactly, had something to do with my heart. That's why I like and respect him, but have never loved him.

alkanto
09-06-2010, 10:12 AM
Stanley Kubrick. A true auteur, and one of the greatest film makers of all time.

I disagree with you. I hate to say it (and I really do hate to say this) but I have never enjoyed a single Kubrick film. I really liked the first half of Full Metal Jacket, and then there was the rest of the movie. I don't think he has really contributed much to the film industry as a whole, though he HAS created some very memorable characters like HAL, R. Lee Ermey's drill instructor (thought I don't think that was a "character", I think that was Ermey himself), and Alex. I don't believe he gave us much more than that though. Of course that's my opinion.

My vote goes to Burton...
obviously.

I have to agree. On the other hand, I don't think I've seen a Burton film I didn't like.

So my vote obviously goes for Mr. Burton.

Seymour_Glass
09-06-2010, 10:13 AM
This is true. On the other hand, I've never seen a film of his that has touched me deeply on emotional level; or, more exactly, had something to do with my heart. That's why I like and respect him, but have never loved him.

I agree with you completely. However, I can say the same for Burton, and his films have never impressed me nearly as much as Kubrick's on a visual/intellectual level.

Jean
09-06-2010, 10:30 AM
well, I liked Edward Scissorhands

but I voted for Kubrick

mae
09-06-2010, 10:44 AM
Burton's best is probably the two Batman films.

fernandito
09-06-2010, 10:46 AM
Big Fish, Sleepy Hollow, Edward Scissorhands - one of those three is Burton's best film. Haven't decided which yet ...

Heather19
09-06-2010, 10:50 AM
Edward Scissorhands :wub:

Seymour_Glass
09-06-2010, 10:57 AM
I'd say Big Fish is Burton's best.

Woofer
09-06-2010, 12:34 PM
I'm with Seymour on Burton's best.

Seymour_Glass
09-06-2010, 12:44 PM
:couple:

Walkingman79
09-06-2010, 12:44 PM
My vote went to Burton even though Full Metal Jacket might make my top ten movie list.Tough one but the edge goes to Tim Burton.

mae
09-06-2010, 12:55 PM
Stanley Kubrick. A true auteur, and one of the greatest film makers of all time.

I disagree with you. I hate to say it (and I really do hate to say this) but I have never enjoyed a single Kubrick film. I really liked the first half of Full Metal Jacket, and then there was the rest of the movie.

Hm, weird, cause for me the the second part of the film was way better. But it's an amazing film altogether.

Mattrick
09-06-2010, 01:02 PM
Kubrick without a doubt. Burton has made good movies but not great movies. The Shining and Clockwork Orange win this for me.

Come on people, we need a malenky few votes for Kubrick! I'll give some cutter!

BROWNINGS CHILDE
09-06-2010, 03:27 PM
This is soooo not fair. These are my top two directors, and I no now that no matter what, one of them will not be in the finals.:cry:

So, If I have to decide which one I want to see win this thing most......

....then its Burton.

IWasSentWest
09-06-2010, 05:56 PM
besides big fish, i think burtons films are very redundant

kubrick

Jean
09-06-2010, 08:51 PM
oh shit, I forgot The Shining... maybe I should have voted for Burton...

Mattrick
09-06-2010, 11:57 PM
Was it the movie that didn't like or Kubrick's handling of it, Jean?

Jean
09-07-2010, 12:04 AM
Was it the movie that didn't like or Kubrick's handling of it, Jean?
This is a good question. Now that you asked it, I think the director's part was ok - not exactly Dr.Strangelove, but quite good anyway. It's the adaptation and the casting that I mostly object to. The same, I suppose, goes for Eyes Wide Shut.

Also, I believe that cinematographically, ACO is a pure work of genius, much as I hate the movie.

fernandito
09-07-2010, 03:12 AM
Also, I believe that cinematographically, ACO is a pure work of genius, much as I hate the movie.

Case in point :

YouTube- A Clockwork Orange - Alex attacks Georgie &amp; Dim

Mattrick
09-07-2010, 03:41 AM
Was it the movie that didn't like or Kubrick's handling of it, Jean?
This is a good question. Now that you asked it, I think the director's part was ok - not exactly Dr.Strangelove, but quite good anyway. It's the adaptation and the casting that I mostly object to. The same, I suppose, goes for Eyes Wide Shut.

Kubrick changed a lot of what was in the book. I'm not sure if it's I knew Kubrick's version before I read Kings or if it's so much more ambiguous in Kubricks but I like the movie version better than the book. Though the book did have some things (hedge animals, that hole) the movie lacked.

I think Shelley DuVall really ruined the shining. Nicholson was a perfect choice. The guy they got to play Grady and Lloyd were fantastic, though.

Brice
09-07-2010, 03:59 AM
Ummm....yeah, I'm gonna' hold my vote on this one too.

pathoftheturtle
09-07-2010, 10:56 AM
Stanley Kubrick. A true auteur, and one of the greatest film makers of all time.

I disagree with you. I hate to say it (and I really do hate to say this) but I have never enjoyed a single Kubrick film. I really liked the first half of Full Metal Jacket, and then there was the rest of the movie. I don't think he has really contributed much to the film industry as a whole, though he HAS created some very memorable characters like HAL, R. Lee Ermey's drill instructor (thought I don't think that was a "character", I think that was Ermey himself), and Alex. I don't believe he gave us much more than that though. Of course that's my opinion...

Of course you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and these polls are nothing but an exercise of opinions, but speaking objectively, how can you say that you "don't think he has really contributed much to the film industry as a whole" - that's just plain wrong and not a matter of opinion. ...I think it's undeniable that Kubrick influenced "the film industry" but the term "contributed" is more relative to differing value systems.

Heather19
09-07-2010, 02:22 PM
Ummm....yeah, I'm gonna' hold my vote on this one too.

Whispers into Brice's ear...
Burton

fernandito
09-07-2010, 04:12 PM
Come on, Kubrick needs a bigger lead ...

Jean
09-07-2010, 09:06 PM
well, Burton isn't anyone to sneeze at, either...

Mattrick
09-08-2010, 01:05 AM
Burton has made lots of good films but I don't know if he's made a great film yet. Big Fish and Scissorhands are close, though.

mae
09-08-2010, 05:07 AM
My vote went to Stan the Man, but... No love for Batman, really? And Batman Returns? To me those are the best interpretations of the character, and are wonderfully done with art direction up the wazoo.

fernandito
09-08-2010, 08:25 AM
well, Burton isn't anyone to sneeze at, either...

*sneezes in Tim Burton's general direction*

Excuse me.

:)

pathoftheturtle
09-08-2010, 11:13 AM
<_< Holding a grudge from last round? They've faced each other already: It would have been better to swap these around.

To me, these two are both directors who've done great things, yet also each posses glaring faults. I might go with Burton. He brought cultishness into the mainstream... but I'm not sure whether that's really a good thing.

Seymour_Glass
09-09-2010, 12:25 PM
well, Burton isn't anyone to sneeze at, either...

*sneezes in Tim Burton's general direction*

Excuse me.

:)

:thumbsup:

Jean
09-10-2010, 12:11 AM
pfft

fernandito
09-10-2010, 10:29 AM
*Bump

Still a close race ...

frik
09-10-2010, 10:30 PM
I love Edward Scissorhands, but 2001 has been my favorite movie since I saw it sometime in the late '60. That was a (movie)experience still unsurpassed.

sk

mae
09-11-2010, 06:30 AM
Oh no, tied at 13! Can't believe we can't get more! Go Kubrick!

fernandito
09-11-2010, 07:02 AM
REMINDER :

If the poll ends in a tie, the posts in favor will count as the final tie breaker !

Heather19
09-11-2010, 07:22 AM
One more vote for Burton, anyone!....

mae
09-11-2010, 09:19 AM
One more vote for Burton, anyone!....

Pff, if Kubrick doesn't advance, I... I... I'll be upset. :nope:

fernandito
09-11-2010, 09:28 AM
If Kubrick doesn't advance I will literally stop this damn tournament :rofl:

Jean
09-11-2010, 09:38 AM
... and declare Kubrick the winner

fernandito
09-11-2010, 09:57 AM
Jean gets it. :lol:

pathoftheturtle
09-11-2010, 11:05 AM
Hello. Please allow me to introduce myself... I am a post in favor of Tim Burton.

:|

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/POTT2007/smileys/1sm047whistle.gif

fernandito
09-11-2010, 11:06 AM
*Sneeze*

frik
09-11-2010, 11:51 AM
... and declare Kubrick the winner

:rock::thumbsup::rock::thumbsup:

sk

Jean
09-11-2010, 11:57 AM
hey, hey, don't quote me on that! it's not my opinion, I only voiced feve's obscure secret desires

alinda
09-11-2010, 12:34 PM
I love Tim, I really do, but if the Final is not Hitchcock vs. Kubrick, y'all don't know fucking movies :P

:couple:

fernandito
09-11-2010, 12:47 PM
Is that you alinda that voted for Kubrick ? Bless you, love :wub:

Brice
09-12-2010, 04:35 AM
REMINDER :

If the poll ends in a tie, the posts in favor will count as the final tie breaker !


So I should start with the one letter posts again?

Heather19
09-12-2010, 05:17 AM
Have you voted yet Brice? Burton needs your help :D

alinda
09-12-2010, 09:53 AM
Is that you alinda that voted for Kubrick ? Bless you, love :wub:

Yes :couple:

Brice
09-13-2010, 04:45 AM
Have you voted yet Brice? Burton needs your help :D

Burton already got my help. :D

Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice

Jean
09-13-2010, 04:59 AM
very close now... and today's the last day...

SynysterSaint
09-13-2010, 05:19 AM
Tim Burton's early work (for example Pee Wee) glistens with originality, wit, and an overall brilliance very few directors can pull off with such off-beat subject matter. Unfortunately for the world of film, Stanley Kubrick usually stands near to the top. His cinematography and his ability to get the actors to do exactly what he imagines is extraordinary; however, his script decisions for adaptations (such as A Clockwork Orange and The Shining) are very poor and lower the overall enchantment of the films.

Since the ability to direct can only go so far as the ability to write a good script, I have to give it to Burton.

Jean
09-13-2010, 05:23 AM
a tie! a tie!

mae
09-13-2010, 06:43 AM
Goddamit. Where are my cinephile friends, only 14 votes for Kubrick when there should be 114!

fernandito
09-13-2010, 07:14 AM
Kubrick
feverishparade
Pablo
Seymour
Jean
Mattrick
Iwassentwest
frik
alinda

Burton
Heather
Sam
Alkanto
Walkingman79
Burton
pathofturtle
brice
synestersaint

9 to 9 ! Even the posts are ties ... damnit, I'll need to devise some other form of tie breaker :lol:

fernandito
09-13-2010, 07:15 AM
Since the ability to direct can only go so far as the ability to write a good script, I have to give it to Burton.

Because Planet of the Apes, Alice in Wonderland, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Sweeney Todd, etc had such well constructed scripts. :rolleyes:

Brice
09-13-2010, 07:21 AM
Kubrick
feverishparade
Pablo
Seymour
Jean
Mattrick
Iwassentwest
frik
alinda

Burton
Heather
Sam
Alkanto
Walkingman79
Burton
pathofturtle
brice
synestersaint

9 to 9 ! Even the posts are ties ... damnit, I'll need to devise some other form of tie breaker :lol:

May I suggest that the non-director member with the highest postcount gets the deciding vote. :innocent: It seems fair to me. :couple:

fernandito
09-13-2010, 07:41 AM
May I suggest that the non-director member with the highest postcount gets the deciding vote. :innocent: It seems fair to me. :couple:

Actually, the only true way to make this fair is to let the non-director with the ... 6th highest post count decide. :lol:

Jean
09-13-2010, 08:51 AM
let's flip a coin!

::flips::

Tails. Kubrick advances...

fernandito
09-13-2010, 08:57 AM
:lol:

mae
09-13-2010, 11:44 AM
Sounds good to me. :clap:

pathoftheturtle
09-13-2010, 12:56 PM
Tim Burton's early work (for example Pee Wee) glistens with originality, wit, and an overall brilliance very few directors can pull off with such off-beat subject matter. Unfortunately for the world of film, Stanley Kubrick usually stands near to the top. His cinematography and his ability to get the actors to do exactly what he imagines is extraordinary; however, his script decisions for adaptations (such as A Clockwork Orange and The Shining) are very poor and lower the overall enchantment of the films.

Since the ability to direct can only go so far as the ability to write a good script, I have to give it to Burton.Wow, great post. Very astute.



Since the ability to direct can only go so far as the ability to write a good script, I have to give it to Burton.

Because Planet of the Apes, Alice in Wonderland, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Sweeney Todd, etc had such well constructed scripts. :rolleyes::blush: Granted.

Look, the trouble with The Shining was that Kubrick was so determined to blow off the afterlife. King was like, "Is there an afterlife, for real? I just don't know." But Kubrick, he knew everything. I mean, this is a guy whose biggest hero was Napoleon. Burton's problem, on the other hand, is that he's just gotten too comfortable. He's not really as fiery at heart as Kubrick was... but he certainly did create some great stuff in his younger days.

And so... Wow, this is awkward. Bad karma, feev. Gnarly.

Jean
09-13-2010, 09:32 PM
Look, the trouble with The Shining was that Kubrick was so determined to blow off the afterlife. King was like, "Is there an afterlife, for real? I just don't know." But Kubrick, he knew everything. I mean, this is a guy whose biggest hero was Napoleon. Burton's problem, on the other hand, is that he's just gotten too comfortable. He's not really as fiery at heart as Kubrick was... but he certainly did create some great stuff in his younger days.
Perfectly stated, all of it. Bears agree with the whole passage.

fernandito
09-14-2010, 07:21 AM
The Final Tie Breaker

This is how it's going to go down :

The first director to have 5 of his films named by the users will be the one to advance. Only one film may be named per user, naturally.

The naming will commence in exactly one hour as of the time of this post. If you name a film before the one hour mark, I will not count your vote.


The clock begins it's march ...

Brice
09-14-2010, 07:39 AM
...and I was just about to go to bed.<_<

fernandito
09-14-2010, 07:48 AM
It's cool, Brice, just leave me your log in password and I'll make sure to log in and vote for ... Burton ... yes, I'll vote for Burton ... I'll help you vote for Burton ... Oh how the helping shall be dispensed!

fernandito
09-14-2010, 08:28 AM
GO !

Kubrick - Spartacus

Jean
09-14-2010, 09:01 AM
Dr.Strangelove

fernandito
09-14-2010, 09:29 AM
Kubrick

feverishparade
jean

Burton







So far..

turtlex
09-14-2010, 09:34 AM
Stanley Kubrick : Clockwork Orange

fernandito
09-14-2010, 10:18 AM
Come on, 2 more Kubrick films ....

Girlystevedave
09-14-2010, 10:33 AM
The Shining

fernandito
09-14-2010, 10:36 AM
Kubrick

feverishparade
jean
turtlex
girlystevedave

Burton







ONE MORE FOR KUBRICK !

SynysterSaint
09-14-2010, 10:39 AM
Burton: Pee-wee's Big Adventure.

SynysterSaint
09-14-2010, 10:45 AM
Because Planet of the Apes, Alice in Wonderland, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Sweeney Todd, etc had such well constructed scripts. :rolleyes:

I thought Sweeney Todd had a fantastic script, actually. Overall, though, you're right: those movies all had script issues. Good thing they aren't his definitive movies. When someone talks about Tim Burton, they think of: The Nightmare Before Christmas, Edward Scissorhands, Pee-wee's Big Adventure, and a few others (mostly his early films). Now, please, show me the films that Kubrick wrote original scripts for.

fernandito
09-14-2010, 10:54 AM
Burton didn't direct The Nightmare Before Christmas.

And you want me to provide original scripts with the assumption that I agree with your sentiment that better script writer = better director, which I don't. Since film is a visual medium, I give credit to those directors that are able to convey radical emotion through the use of powerful imagery. In that regard, Kubrick is leagues ahead of Burton.

mae
09-14-2010, 10:56 AM
Barry Lyndon ftw

fernandito
09-14-2010, 11:02 AM
Kubrick
feverishparade
jean
turtlex
girlystevedave
Pablo

Burton
SynysterSaint


Kubrick advances ! :D

Jean
09-14-2010, 11:09 AM
but Heather wasn't even there! she would have raised her voice for Burton

fernandito
09-14-2010, 11:20 AM
I texted her in the morning to let her know what was going on, but I guess she didn't get it in time ...

fernandito
09-14-2010, 11:21 AM
P.S - I'm about to post the first group of Round 3 in about 10 minutes, so stay tuned :D

Jean
09-14-2010, 11:34 AM
I am staying tuned, and what do I see in 10 minutes?

feverishparade 11:26 PM Viewing Thread In Your Mind Right Now: spill your beans.

fernandito
09-14-2010, 11:43 AM
:lol:

My bad, I realized how hungry I was and went to grab a snack from the lunch truck. Give me a few more mins ...

Jean
09-14-2010, 11:45 AM
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/awake.gif

pathoftheturtle
09-14-2010, 02:19 PM
...I give credit to those directors that are able to convey radical emotion through the use of powerful imagery...Well, even so, you ought to give Burton some credit.

Also, there's no one single definitive directing skill, actually. If there were, I'd say that LEADERSHIP is it. Any jerk with O.C.D. can create radical imagery. I still respect Burton for moving my soul more than Kubrick. Good thing that, after all, this tourney is just a little game. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/POTT2007/smileys/shrug.gif

Heather19
09-14-2010, 02:20 PM
but Heather wasn't even there! she would have raised her voice for Burton


I texted her in the morning to let her know what was going on, but I guess she didn't get it in time ...

I was at work :cry:

fernandito
09-14-2010, 02:48 PM
...I give credit to those directors that are able to convey radical emotion through the use of powerful imagery...Well, even so, you ought to give Burton some credit.


Oh, definitely. Some of his earlier work is ripe with startling imagery that stays with you long after the credits roll, Edward Scissorhands being a prime example. I love that film.



Also, there's no one single definitive directing skill, actually...


Obviously. In this case however, I value Kubrick's tour de force imagery and reoccurring theme of dehumanization much more than I value anything by Burton.



I still respect Burton for moving my soul more than Kubrick.


Burton's films move my sole too ... the soles of my feet as I exit the his latest CGI-fest in disgust :P



Good thing that, after all, this tourney is just a little game. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/POTT2007/smileys/shrug.gif

Not for me it isn't. This is serious business. If my director doesn't win , I'm exiting this world Kurt Cobain style.

DoctorDodge
09-14-2010, 02:57 PM
Glad I stayed out of this round! I've seen a fair few Burton movies, and whilst he has a nice visual, gothic style to his work, he's recently shown himself to be a bit hit and miss. Especially with Alice in Wonderland - the family enjoyed it, and I liked it for that much, but it was far from being a classic adaptation, and if I had watched it on my own, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it much at all.

Now, Kubrick, I've only watched a couple of films of, including The Shining, Full Metal Jacket and A Clockwork Orange. Now, A Clockwork Orange...sorry, I just didn't get it. I know it's a classic 'n all, but it just didn't work for me. The Shining? I liked it, but it's not one of my favourite horror films. It's a very strange, very visual film. Enjoyable, but I much prefer the original novel.

Now, Full Metal Jacket: now that's what I'm talking about! I'm not an avid fan of war movies, but I do enjoy the ones that show the darker side of it (I remember enjoying a remake of All Quiet on the Western Front in school, and I really, really loved watching it), and they don't come much darker than this, do they? No one else could've directed this movie other than Kubrick, I think.

But it was still too difficult for me to decide between Burton and Kubrick. It might have something to do with me enjoying Burton's films back in childhood, especially Batman: the gothic, moody atmosphere of that adaptation mixed in with the dark humour really appealed to me both as a kid and as an adult who loves that kind of style, so whilst it might not be one of my favourite comic adaptations ever (that'll very probably be the Dark Knight or Scott Pilgrim vs The World), it certainly comes pretty close!

SynysterSaint
09-14-2010, 03:11 PM
Burton didn't direct The Nightmare Before Christmas.

And you want me to provide original scripts with the assumption that I agree with your sentiment that better script writer = better director, which I don't. Since film is a visual medium, I give credit to those directors that are able to convey radical emotion through the use of powerful imagery. In that regard, Kubrick is leagues ahead of Burton.

He wrote it and took over all directorial power, he just wasn't the one who moved around the characters in the stop-motion process. The person who did that was given the title of "director". Just like Tim Burton wasn't given credit for writing it, either, even though it was based off of a poem he wrote and he basically wrote the entire screen-play. But because he was doing so much on the project already, they gave all final say in the script to a different person and then listed that man as "writer" even though he didn't write it.

So yes, Tim Burton did produce, write, and direct Nightmare; he just wasn't given official credit because of a few responsibilities he delegated to other people.

I'd like to know why you believe that Kubrick is leagues ahead of Burton in the ability to convey radical emotion, but what you're really arguing here is that you believe Kubrick works with heavier subject matter. Kubrick isn't able to write scripts that convey large amounts of emotion; the only scripts he writes that convey large amounts of emotion are adaptations from other sources, which, most of the time, are objected to by the author of the original sources (Stephen King hates Kubrick and his version of The Shining, from what I've heard).

Burton, on the other hand, doesn't usually go for radical emotional content, but when he does it works. I would like to see Kubrick try to do a work such as Edward Scissorhands; something that is so outrageous in its plot, characters, settings, and overall color scheme while being available to children and adults alike while still conveying separate emotions and themes to every age group that watches it. Edward Scissorhands is a piece of artwork that Kubrick will never be able to get anywhere close to.

SynysterSaint
09-14-2010, 03:16 PM
I texted her in the morning to let her know what was going on, but I guess she didn't get it in time ...

Yeah, this tie breaker was a pretty big gyp. Instead of arguing who is actually better, the only perimeter to win this round was to see which fans signed on first. Kubrick won fair and square, so by all means put him in the next round. But still, this tie breaker was kind of rigged (the first vote was made by the person who decided on the tie breaker, which gave their favorite an automatic advantage).

fernandito
09-14-2010, 03:31 PM
Christ, give me a fucking break.

The poll ended in a tie. The posts in favor ended in a tie. What do you want me to do, flip a coin and post it on youtube ?

I implemented the one hour time cushion for precisely that reason, so that there wouldn't be an unfair advantage. Is it my fault none of the Burton supporters were around at that time ? If the situation was flipped upside down so that all of the Burton and none of the Kubrick supporters were online in the morning would you still be singing the same tune ?

pathoftheturtle
09-14-2010, 03:54 PM
We should do a best screenwriter contest! :excited:

To be fair, I do think it's possible that Lewis Carroll spun once or twice in his grave.

I hope that Burton will try hard to again get better focus in the future.

turtlex
09-14-2010, 04:08 PM
I texted her in the morning to let her know what was going on, but I guess she didn't get it in time ...

Yeah, this tie breaker was a pretty big gyp. Instead of arguing who is actually better, the only perimeter to win this round was to see which fans signed on first. Kubrick won fair and square, so by all means put him in the next round. But still, this tie breaker was kind of rigged (the first vote was made by the person who decided on the tie breaker, which gave their favorite an automatic advantage).

Dude. Come on. We've done tons of comparison and arguing about who was better. This whole thread is a discussion on them as filmmakers. Did you want everyone to re-post their opinions?!?

Nothing was rigged, and honestly, it's damn offensive that you even said that. I think you owe Feev an apology, man. This whole poll structure and voting and the brackets - it's a hell of a lot of work.

Using your logic, even if another poll was put up - it's always who has happened to login before the poll ends. That's the very nature of a poll.

I wonder if you'd have the same objection if Burton had won?

Daghain
09-14-2010, 09:48 PM
Here's the thing, SynysterSaint: if it's important to you, you'll log your ass in and VOTE.

Seems to me that happened.

Brice
09-15-2010, 09:08 AM
I texted her in the morning to let her know what was going on, but I guess she didn't get it in time ...

Yeah, this tie breaker was a pretty big gyp. Instead of arguing who is actually better, the only perimeter to win this round was to see which fans signed on first. Kubrick won fair and square, so by all means put him in the next round. But still, this tie breaker was kind of rigged (the first vote was made by the person who decided on the tie breaker, which gave their favorite an automatic advantage).

My friend I'll tell you honestly and transparently what happened here is we weren't really expecting a tie on these. In fact though this is my forum also, Feev has almost single-handedly run all such competitions and done so with finesse...devoting countless hours to make it fun for all. Well, when it did result in an unexpected tie we were left with a last minute judgement call to make. If you disagree with the decision which was made that's fine. That is your right and perhaps given time we could have come up with a better decision.

Now on to my non-mod personal opinion: Feev is one of the most honorable, honest, and caring people I know. I'll thank you now in advance for being decent enough to keep any smears against his character to yourself.

Brice
09-15-2010, 09:11 AM
It's cool, Brice, just leave me your log in password and I'll make sure to log in and vote for ... Burton ... yes, I'll vote for Burton ... I'll help you vote for Burton ... Oh how the helping shall be dispensed!

:rofl:

SynysterSaint
09-15-2010, 04:21 PM
I wonder if you'd have the same objection if Burton had won?

I would have objected. After I read everyone's posts, I guess it really was the only way to go about it, though. I did, after all, say that Kubrick won fair and square, did I not?

I'm sorry if I made you upset, feev. I do understand that it takes a lot of work to do the polls and set all of this up, and I do thankee for it.

SynysterSaint
09-15-2010, 04:26 PM
Now on to my non-mod personal opinion: Feev is one of the most honorable, honest, and caring people I know. I'll thank you now in advance for being decent enough to keep any smears against his character to yourself.

I never meant for anything I said to come across as derogatory towards feev or his character; he and I have had many, many intelligent and civil conversations. I have no reason to speak ill of him. My points were against the tie-breaker itself, not at all against him. You should know me better than that, Brice. If I sincerely believed that anything I said could or would be misinterpreted against any member in this thread, I wouldn't have said it.

fernandito
09-15-2010, 10:19 PM
No worries, Synyster ... water under the bridge and all that jazz.

Jean
09-16-2010, 01:28 AM
Feev is one of the most honorable, honest, and caring people I know.
Hear, hear.



Burton, on the other hand, doesn't usually go for radical emotional content, but when he does it works. I would like to see Kubrick try to do a work such as Edward Scissorhands; something that is so outrageous in its plot, characters, settings, and overall color scheme while being available to children and adults alike while still conveying separate emotions and themes to every age group that watches it. Edward Scissorhands is a piece of artwork that Kubrick will never be able to get anywhere close to.
Bears agree with this, by the way...

pathoftheturtle
09-16-2010, 03:50 PM
Not to mention Big Fish. How would that have turned out under Kubrick? ><

I cannot stay aware of all that goes on on this site 24/7. I've got a life. Who would care THAT much about something like this contest? Oh, right, I forgot: Stanley Kubrick fans. :P

Jean
09-16-2010, 10:24 PM
no, not only - bears care a lot

bears recently realized that movies meant more to them than they had thought

fernandito
09-17-2010, 06:26 AM
Not to mention Big Fish. How would that have turned out under Kubrick? ><


Twice as good ?! :)



bears recently realized that movies meant more to them than they had thought

Posts like these are just one of the many reasons I love hosting these kind of tournaments.

Brice
09-17-2010, 08:21 AM
Now on to my non-mod personal opinion: Feev is one of the most honorable, honest, and caring people I know. I'll thank you now in advance for being decent enough to keep any smears against his character to yourself.

I never meant for anything I said to come across as derogatory towards feev or his character; he and I have had many, many intelligent and civil conversation. I have no reason to speak ill of him. My points were against the tie-breaker itself, not at all against him. You should know me better than that, Brice. If I sincerely believed that anything I said could or would be misinterpreted against any member in this thread, I wouldn't have said it.

Yeah, I should have realized that and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding, but your saying it was rigged was kind of what made me think what I did. I'm sure in this instance it was just a matter of a perhaps poor choice of words and someone's :unsure: habit of being overly zealous in defense of his friends.

I sincerely hope this can all be behind us. :grouphug:

pathoftheturtle
09-18-2010, 10:07 AM
I cannot stay aware of all that goes on on this site 24/7. I've got a life. Who would care THAT much about something like this contest? Oh, right, I forgot: Stanley Kubrick fans. :P

no, not only - bears care a lotLame attempt at humor. Sorry.

Not to mention Big Fish. How would that have turned out under Kubrick? ><


Twice as good ?! :)<_< As if. :nope:

Jean
09-18-2010, 10:49 AM
Lame attempt at humor. Sorry.
I was being serious!

::indignant::

pathoftheturtle
09-18-2010, 11:05 AM
Lame attempt at humor. Sorry.
I was being serious!

::indignant::... Right... :unsure: I said I was sorry. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s12/POTT2007/smileys/sad.gif

SynysterSaint
09-18-2010, 11:42 PM
Yeah, I should have realized that and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding, but your saying it was rigged was kind of what made me think what I did. I'm sure in this instance it was just a matter of a perhaps poor choice of words and someone's :unsure: habit of being overly zealous in defense of his friends.

I sincerely hope this can all be behind us. :grouphug:

How can I fault you for coming to the defense of a friend you thought was being slandered? Nothing you said in defense of feev was taken personally, Brice, and there's absolutely no need to apologize. I'm still sorry what I said was misinterpreted; I take full responsibility for not making my position clear in my post :grouphug: You know I couldn't be mad at you (or pretty much anyone else here) even if I tried.

turtlex
09-19-2010, 10:37 AM
SS ... :grouphug:

SynysterSaint
09-19-2010, 11:33 AM
SS ... :grouphug:

Always :)

Brice
09-19-2010, 04:14 PM
:grouphug:

Jean
09-20-2010, 12:19 AM
the above posts fill bears' hearts with joy! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear-176.gif